By | November 2, 2009 148 Comments

Evil exists, and it does not want to be discovered

Evil exists. If you need proof, just look at the horrific case of little Charleeni Ferreira.

Charleeni, age 10, of Philadelphia, Pa., died on October 21, 2009. Her father, Domingo Ferreira, 53, and stepmother Margarita Garabito, 43, were charged with murder and endangering the welfare of a child.

So how bad was the abuse? The police called it “torture.”

Charleeni actually died from an infection that resulted from broken ribs that were not treated. She had a host of new and old injuries, including a fractured pelvis and a 7-inch gash on her head that had been stuffed with gauze and covered with a hair weave.

For more details, read Signs of Charleeni’s “torture” were hidden, in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

What makes this case so appalling is that a school nurse reported suspected child abuse. In the three years before her death, Charleeni was seen by numerous doctors, a psychiatrist and a therapist. The Philadelphia Department of Human Services (DHS) provided services to the family for five months.

Now, the DHS commissioner is trying to figure out what went wrong.


Here’s what I think happened: One or both of the parents were sociopaths, and they bamboozled the child welfare workers.

The parents denied any abuse—workers described them as “hurt” by the allegations—but agreed to intervention anyway. After a period of supervision, child welfare workers closed the case. They also recommended that Charleeni’s parents contact a legal aid agency if the school nurse continued to complain about child abuse.

Charleeni herself was also terrorized and manipulated. She told a doctor at St. Christopher’s Hospital for Children that her family treated her “like a princess.” Welts on her hand occurred when she accidentally stabbed herself with a pencil in the dark. She and her parents always had explanations for her injuries, although they didn’t always match.


Police apparently believe that the stepmother, Margarita Garabito, was the main perpetrator. But the father, Domingo Ferreira, didn’t stop her. In fact, he showed no remorse and fell asleep in the police interview room. Then, Ferreira hung himself in his jail cell.

This, of course, is convenient for the stepmother. Her court-appointed attorney terms the suicide “an admission of guilt.”

See Charleeni’s death blamed on her dead father, in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

I don’t know who initiated the child abuse. Women can be abusive sociopaths. They can also be accomplices, under the control of male sociopaths.

Evil exists

So what’s the lesson here?

Evil exists, but it can be concealed by seemingly plausible explanations.

Evil exists, but it can be disguised by expressions of concern.

Evil exists, but victims can be too terrorized to speak of it.

People who are in a position to see signs of child abuse—doctors, teachers, social workers—need to understand that evil does not want to be discovered, so they must pay close attention to any small clues.

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This is an awful awful event that occurred, but this article is at good timing for me.

I am aware that evil exists and it is concealed a lot of times by seemingly plausible explanations, and I’ve seen it disguised by expressions of concern. (makes me sick)
I know I was too terrorized in many ways, not that I saw what this poor little girl saw.

In my situation I need to be alert and I will be paying close attention to ANY small clues. Alarm has went of and I will stay awake. These are Gods children and God gave me the opportunity and responsibility to watch about them and I want this job!

Thank you Donna


How to spot a liar: They leave you feeling confused, there are inconsistancies, they protest too much.

But mostly, when you call them out they cycle thru the charm, pity and rage ploys. Lying is childish so you will get childish behaviors.


This is sooooo tragic!
It’s ANOTHER example of just one of the reasons exposure is so important!!!! IF SOMEONE HAD ONLY HAD SEEN THROUGH IT!!!!!
I don’t believe for one second that NO ONE NOTICED…, friends, neighbors, social workers…..IT WAS REPORTED….then schmoozed over…..
But…..I am also not ….unfortunately, surprised by this….ONE BIT…..I am utterly disgusted with our government employees…..its a crock of shit! They go, collect a paycheck and don’t make waves or look further than they have to…..
Judges, Social Workers, Police… name em…..
I know in my case…..TWICE…..the police were never issued a copy of my TPO’s for the system…..AND his warrent was never entered into the system…..both systems…state and US……Just a small example of WHY I SAY…..we walk this earth alone…..only with our shadows….AND WE BETTER MAKE SURE OUR SHADOWS ARE EFFICIENT and can follow up and make sure others are doing their jobs……..

In private business….when a company cuts back due to lack of funds….it means the rest of the EMPLOYED pick up the slack and WORK HARDER…..NOT just cut out positions and take on the IT”S NOT MY JOB mentality……

They are robots, sheep, and people are hurt/destroyed or killed…..because someone didn’t pay attention or listen to a gut to look further, or the outright signs….GAUZE?????….
WTF…..gauze packed in a gash in the head WITH A HAIR WEAVE…..this obviousley didn’t start and end that day!

God rest that little angels soul…….
Because nobody else is gonna do it for me!!!!
And this little girl could be any one of our S’s children!!!

**Sorry…..this struck a nerve…..


P’s are everywhere and the parental P’s are never going to tell their kids how to spot a P, because then the P would be outed. Schools need to have classes for 1st through 8th graders teaching them how to become real human beings and how to recognize when one isn’t.

I went to catholic schools and they possibly saved my life because we had religion classes. Obviously the religion classes were NOT enough because it didn’t address the reality of recognizing evil in our lives and only focused on our own sinful nature, but at least it provided some guidance. My parents never taught me morals, only obedience to their inconsistent wishes.

Reading Riting and Rithmatic are not enough, society has to teach morals and compassion because it is too late to expect it to be taught at home. There is no one home except a P.

Ox Drover

The authorities telling the parents to contact LEGAL AID if the school nurse kept “harassing” them by reporting signs of abuse sent me to to the ceiling with RAGE!!!!

That nurse is COMPLELLED BY LAW TO REPORT ANY SIGNS OF ABUSE—so now she is to be compelled by FEAR to ignore signs?

The little girl is dead and gone and cannot suffer any more, but I just wonder about that NURSE who was so DEVALUED as she tried to save a child, so PERSECUTED for trying to do her job and save a child. Except for an “I told you so!” that nurse will carry to her grave the wondering if there was ANYTHING ELSE she could have done to have saved that child.

Yea, this struck a nerve with me too! Sorry isn’t good enough, I hope the “authorities” that dropped this ball get what THEY deserve too. And, Yea, I know how “over worked” and “understaffed” they are but this one was SCREAMING and they ignored it.

May the “wicked step mother of the year” go to prison forever!


It should be a MANDATORY REQUIREMENT that prospective,
adoptive parents undergo an extensive pyschological examination and assessment to screen for this. There are evaluative tools used in conjunction with a thorough criminal
and personal background evaluation that should catch this.
An evaluation of the ABILITY to parent and assessment of
stress coping skills are essential.

Young, single girls giving birth to babies, who haven’t reached a maturational level commensurate with the amount of responsibility and skill that two adult parents, let alone one
teenage one could possibly have, is insane.

Every week I read about a mother who killed her infant or kids because she couldn’t cope with the responsibility alone
without the help of a mate. How incredibly selfish and insensitive it is that they throw away a God given life because
no one loved them and taught them growing up how to do it.
They think that as if by osmosis, they’ll just know how to handle a screaming infant at four in the morning with no one there to take a shift. Let’s not forget the boyfriends they leave the baby with to so they can shop. Baby cries…boyfriend can’t stand it and shakes the baby to death.

Skylar is right. Kids should be taught how to spot this in school, but because of the legal ramifications involved, look how no one wants to step in and risk their own head on the chopping block for a defenseless child. I see bumper stickers
on the cars of people that say “It’s A Child Not A Choice” and that may very well be true once there’s a pregnancy, however, anyone sporting this slogan, better be adopting at least two or three throw aways in the child welfare system, that no one wants because they’re no longer a cute infant.

This is occuring across race and socioeconomic lines throughout this country today. At the risk of being labeled a bleeding heart liberal, I think its everyone’s responsibility to
break the cyclic chain of abuse, first through a massive education initiative, secondly through programs geared to teach sexual behaviour responsibility to young people. This may anger some Catholics, but contraception to avoid unwanted and unplanned for pregnancies is essential.

Parenting 101 should start in at least first grade teaching
through role playing what it means to be a Mommy and Daddy, so at that early stage, kids get a grasp of the enormous responsibility involved with having a kid. Through
pretend play kids learn through those scenarios what you should do and what is unacceptable. This alone, by the time
of post pubescence, along with adequate sexuality education,
could help stem the tide of this phenomena sweeping our country today. It’s not enough to issue moral platitudes and look down your nose at those less fortunate than you that
are struggling without the tools or support necessary to handle
raising a child lovingly and responsibly in this world today.

These parents that we label “evil” are the product of a long line of thinking about corporal punishment the can be found in
the Bible and in every generation that has perpetrated unthinkable abuses against defenseless, young children ever since. Read some of Alice Miller’s books on child abuse and
it’s link to mankind’s need for war and dominance. Her insights
as to why we have such violent cultures and societies are sobering and timeless. War and violence can be directly attributed to the bottomless pit of terror child abuse instills in the lives of every generation, which in turn creates the need
to control and dominate in adulthood.

There’s nothing scarier than being confronted with a terrified,
angry five year old in the body a full grown adult who is carrying the stored up rage of all that past injustice and aiming it at an innocent, defenseless child. Miller goes into great detail about how the intergenerational cycle of abuse
needs to be broken before we can become less violent as a race of sentient beings.

Yes…these two are evil, but no less so than the ones who abused them and so on and so on. Shine a light on this with love and take a firm stand on its unacceptablilty in the world today and then watch then changes as they occur.

fostering a whole new generation of sociopaths with no solid
moral and familial support system to counter the imprint of
this vivid and violent imagery in their young minds.



That is such extreme abuse to go unnoticed. I volunteer at an child adovcacy and that would’ve never gotten past.

But yes, evil can be the most charming and manipulative as is what it wants to do..

If it revealed itself for what it is upfront, it couldn’t do its agenda filled dirty deeds. Hence, the men that charm women..
so anything too charming has an agenda.. as genuine, real people don’t approach that way.

Ox Drover

There are lots of contributing factors to physical abuse—from desensitizing violence on computer games, television, movies, music, etc. but even still with all these influences, not everyone (in fact, not the majority) of parents abuse children physically, and certainlly not to this extent.

Not every abuser were themselves abused, however, and not every violent person was exposed to violence as a young child. Not every person who WAS abused as a child grows up to be an abuser either, some of them grow up to be passive victims of abuse.

Cain didn’t kill his brother because he had seen violent Television, and not because he ate “twinkies” either (one guy used his consumption of excess Twinkies as his “defense” LOL)

There are a great many things that should be taught in our schools, and parenting skills is only one of many of those things.

I think this one case is simply the tip of the iceberg that shows up on the news every once in a while, the majority of these cases never end in exposure…that is the biggest crime of all.


Keen, I’m right with you on that. EVERY SINGLE problem in society would be addressed when you address the problem of sociopathy being passed down from parent to child. And not addressing it will be our doom.


Just last week, I photographed another golf ball-sized bruise on my 5-year old niece’s bottom. I discovered it while I was giving her a bath.

When I discovered it, I said to her, “You have a bruise on your bottom, sweetie.”

My niece replied, “I know.”

I said, “How did you get this?”

She said, “I don’t remember.”

I don’t press any farther than that for answers. She just clams up.

It’s exactly like the last bruise I photographed on her bottom. Same size, same location, same everything.
My mom and I both think a kick to the bottom would cause that kind of bruise.

I have many photographs of unexplained bruises, and lots of documentation of incidents.
But, it is not going to be enough to have this child taken away from its BIOLOGICAL MOTHER.

The courts never want to take a child away from the biological mother.

Plus, in this case, the biological mother is a nurse who will have a plausible explanation for anything that I will throw at her. I have already seen previews of what she would do.
Example: When my niece was a toddler, she would run to the corner and cry when it was time to leave my house. The mother’s explanation for this was that it was because I spoiled her, and it was MY fault she did that.
All this coming from a woman who has her house looking like Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch.
But, it is a plausible explanation for the behavior, and one the authorities would probably believe.
By the way, now that she is 5, she does not cry when it is time to go home. She just tells me, “I don’t want to go home.”
And, it kills me that I have to send her home with a psychopath/child abuser.

Plus, my brother (this child’s biological father) is in the house, as well. I guess it’s better than nothing.
There are times when I think he may be waking up to the realization of what his wife really is.
Then, there are other times when I think she has really done a number on him, and he is never going to find his way out of the FOG.

Another reason that I don’t report is that somehow this mother can make her child say, “I want my mommy” on cue.
And, to the untrained observer, this will look like a child who actually wants its real mommy. It’s all a performance, but no one will be able to pick up on that.

As hard as it is, I am not reporting anything until I am 100% sure I have enough evidence to have the child removed from that environment. That may never happen, but this child is not going to be 5 years old forever, either. At some point, this child will talk. In the meantime, it is great that I am able to maintain contact with the child.
And, the article above is the reason why I do NOT report.
The authorities are useless.

If I ever get to the point where I think I have something big enough to get the child away from her mother, my first stop is going to be my LAWYER. My lawyer is a genius, and I believe he can take on the screwed-up legal system better than I could.


OxDrover – Every point you made is correct, which only serves to illustrate the complexity of dealing with this huge problem. You’re correct. It has many facets and what happened to one may not apply to another and vice -versa.

With this kind of blatant physical violence you can rest assured
there was even more involved. One doesn’t necessarily have to have been physically abused to become a perpetrator of this. It’s high time people started realizing the extreme toll
verbal, emotional and psychological violence exact on the developing child. Look what it does to adults who are targeted by it. It’s devastating. As you said, some of them grow up to be passive victims of sociopaths because that is all they knew.

Abuse by any other name is still abuse. The tip of the iceberg
that we can see of physical harm with our eyes is only the head of a pin compared to the invisibility verbal, emotional and psychological torture that people inflict on children and one another as well, creates in the way of major harm.

It’s high time people realize this. No physical marks have to be left to create major trauma. Some socios are adept at sadistically torturing using mental tactics used to reduce their
victims to putty. Imagine how an adult abuse survivor who falls prey to one of these fares and then think about how a poor child with very few psycholgical defenses to stave off the
verbal and mental assualts do.

And one still has to marvel at the boy who was kept in the closet by his parents and tortured. After he escaped, the first
concern he expressed was about what would happen to his brothers and sisters! Just heartbreaking and a testament to the indomitablilty of the human spirit and how selflessly concerned he was bout their welfare over his!!

Skylar, you’re right on that. Addressing it means educating
every person in this society about evil. Not some abstract notion, but the everyday variety happening all around us that
we choose to ignore in a culture of complicity.

As Barbara Bush said about the Katrina survivors, I forget the exact context…Why would I want to worry my beautiful mind about any of THAT??? She posed a good question.

How many of us are up to the challenge of doing more?


OxDrover wrote:

“That nurse is COMPLELLED BY LAW TO REPORT ANY SIGNS OF ABUSE—so now she is to be compelled by FEAR to ignore signs?”

I was threatened of being charged with child endangerment, and inflicting psychological abuse on my children if I stayed with their father. When I leave their father, and he pyshcically and psychologically abuses them, and I report it, I’m accused of being “TOO INVOLVED, and PARENTAL ALIENATION.”

Compelled by fear…”If I don’t protect them from witnessing me being abused then I’m guilty of psychologically abusing them. If I do report abuse they are directly experiencing, abuse, I am threatened with PAS, with a sub-threat that our youngest will be handed over to the ex, and separated from me and her siblings. My children are forced to tolerate a certain level of abuse, in order to protect their youngest sibling. And, as their champion, protector and providor, I’m rendered helpless to advocate for them, as my efforts will bring them more suffering.

If I take a step back and look at this from a wide angle, considering the horrific story above, which sickens, and outrages me, and, it certainly makes my issues seem very small in comparison) doesn’t it appear that the legal system, has sociopathic tendencies? Or, is this just my twisted thinking?



You are in between a rock and a hard place. Your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don’t.

If you try to pursue a case against her and don’t have enough for the mother to loose custody, it will make the situation escalate. And of course you wouldn’t even be able to see your niece anymore.

And I agree with you it is going to take ALOT for a bio mother to loose custody. At best, she might have to do some anger management and parenting classes. And all that will do is make her MAD.

I think the saddest thing of all is that for the young child, even though they “cover up” for the parent…You have to wonder if they wonder why no one is rescuing them from this situation. Or if it just the “normal” for them and they don’t even know that things should be different. And this is just the “way it is” because it is what they know.

What kind of relationship does she have with her dad? Does his wife interfere with the father daughter relationship?

Ox Drover

Dear Rosa and Isabell,

The roads you walk are the hardest ones, because you know but our “system” is screwed up.

One of my dearest friends has several P sons, and one of them has custody of his daughter. My friend raised that child until age 8 when the son remarried and took her away, refusing to let my friend even see her (so she wouold “bond” with her new step mother who hates her—also a P I think)

My friend has had to go to GREAT LENGTHS to keep in touch with this child, who is now 13, first by volunteering in the school where the child attended so she could have lunch with her 1 day a week, and so on. then my friend made peace of a sort with the dysfunctional bio mother of the girl, who finally agreed to let my friend have the girl some of the biomother’s weekends, and there has been at least ONE stable person in this child’s life and the little girl is growing up to be a wonderful young lady and very close to her grandmother.

My friend told me the other day that the girl said “My dad tells me to be honest with him, and when I am, he screams at me.” This ONE positive influence in the child’s life is making a BIG difference in her though, so Rosa, keep on being there (whatever you have to do) with your niece and keep on documenting.

Isabell, just do the best you can with the cards you have been dealt. I do know that the love we give to kids can make a difference even if someone else is abusing them. hang tough! ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for everyone!



One of the very first red flags we noticed was that my niece went to Daddy before she went to Mommy.

She even stated at 2 years old that she loved her Daddy more than Mommy.

She has drawn “family” pictures with herself & her Daddy. But, NO MOMMY.

What 2-year old draws a family photo without Mommy???

And yes, my brother’s wife has tried to marginalize his relationship with his daughter, unbeknownst to him, of course. It has not really worked very well, though. Psychopaths cannot stay home and take care of their kids (too boring & they don’t care about the welfare of their kids), so she always ends up letting someone else take care of her child. That would be my brother, my mom, or me.

However, when my niece says, “I want my mommy”, my brother actually believes it. I do NOT.
It’s a total con.
And I would love to know what my sister-in-law does to that child to get her to say it at the most opportune times.

My main goal is to keep close contact with my niece.
At least I know that this child is capable of love, and forming a deep emotional bond with someone.

That’s another thing we noticed very early. This child reached for her biological mother as a baby.
It was MOMMY who did not reach back.

I do see things that worry me in this child, though.
She never has cried or felt anxious when her mother left her.
Most kids cry when their mother leaves.
I read in Dr. Leedom’s book, “Just Like His Father”, that children develop GUILT as a result of “distress of threatened separation from the parent”.

Page 172, “Guilt develops as an extension of fear of separation from the parent.”
I don’t see GUILT in my niece, and I think it is because she is not fearful of being separated from her mother.
I know this child is capable of LOVE, and forming strong emotional bonds with others. But, there is this lack of guilt that troubles me.
Somehow, I need to model, teach, influence my niece to feel GUILT.


What has she done that should make her feel guilty?
I think there is a better way to express what causes guilt.

Look at it from the perspective of a Christian Adult. When we are bad, we feel guilty because we fear judgement from God. We fear that we have done something which angers God and we will be separated from Him.

A child looks on its’ parents as God-like figures. When the child is bad and gets reprimanded, the child feels unloved and fears being rejected (separated) from its’ God-like parents. So being guilty means fear of punishment in the form of rejection. If you niece behaves badly but never gets reprimanded she won’t fear rejection.

Regardless of how mean her mother is to her, she is still going to have some kind of bond, because that’s been one of her caregivers since birth. Not fearing rejection from her mother would be very strange.


All of these huge RED FLAGS have been going on for the last 5 years, and I just contacted LoveFraud about 7 months ago? thinking there may be a problem here.

That’s pathetic.

But, that is what psychopaths do with their pathological lies, gaslighting and crazy-making behavior.
It’s pretty powerful the way they can make you doubt yourself, and go against your gut instincts.

And, when you come from a background where abusing one’s own child is unconscionable, it is even harder to get a grasp on what is going on.


Whatever you see trust your instinct. It is ALL you have to go by.

If you think guilt is something she doesn’t know how to feel then it might be important to try and teach her this. I would say as she grows just look for that “wide” range of emotions we all feel.

The problem with abuse is that there is also the emotional abuse that holds captive the victim. I don’t know how that “mind game” would be done with a very small child. But it is done. Children “don’t tell”, and even offer excuses for their abuser, so you KNOW that the abuser has a major control over them.

Unlike you when I was raising him I didn’t know anything about the “at risk” child. (as far as personality disorders) However I did have enough common sense to realize that he had suffered a trama at a young age. So I did have some awareness.
I also KNEW his father had many issues, I just didn’t know that they could be defined with a name. I “named” it addiction.

I think because you KNOW what you KNOW, you have an advantage. And because you don’t live in the “fog” like your brother does…You might be her best source for helping her get through this.

Ox Drover

Rosa, I think the child probably feels “guilty” about her own injuries because you know her mother “blames” her. So the child probably feels that she is to blame for the injury because Mommie dearest said she deserved it.

I have a feeling that child has waaaaay too omuch guilt, but just doesn’t know how to express it.

I would focus on telling the little girl that she is loved, and that she is good and praise her for anything she does that is positive, and let any negative things slide unless they are definant behavior.

Let her know it is okay to display her emotions to you. Like if you think she might be upset or angry or sad or whatever emotion and she seems to be holding back, say something like, “It is okay to tell auntie Rosa that you are angry (sad or whatever)”

It is NOT likely to be okay to tell mommie dearest she is mad though. so you might tell the child, “sometimes we feel angry (or whatever emotion) and the situation is such that it isn’t appropriate or wise to let our emotions show, but it is OK to show/tell your feelings to auntie Rosa.”

Of course you can’t ever talk “bad” about mommie dearest, but you can make general statements about things and let the child draw her own conclusions. That is what is happening now with my friends GD, she is SEEING that not everyone acts like her father and her step mother do. She is seeing that she is loved and treated with respect by some people, but not others that claim to “love” her. Kids are not stupid, they can put 2 and 2 together. Your niece is so fortunate to have YOU to be there for her.

You can also say things like “sometimes people do mean things when they are angry, but it isn’t your fault.” Of course you aren’t talking about mommie dearest, but the child will get the message if you are careful about the examples you use.

Maybe sometime you and she see someone acting out in an ugly way at a store or wherever you are, you can still make the lesson about THAT person and the child will eventually make the connection about mommie dearest. Just little general comments about how some people do this or that and it isn’t a nice thing to do.

You might also reassure her that she can always come to you with her emotions of sad, mad, fear etc. Eventually this will get through to her that you are ALWAYS SAFE to talk to.

Of course she wants to believe her mommie dearest loves her, even though mommie dearest kicks her. Believe me, I think your “kick” theory is right on about the bruises on the butt. Keep on documenting them. The same bruise showing up over and over and over in the same place is a great piece of documentation really.

I am so grateful, Rosa, that you “get it” and are there for the child. I’m also sorry that your brother is duped, afraid, or whatever, and I pray that he will get out of the FOG. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t. ((((hugs))))



Yes. I am definitely going on my instincts (right or wrong), and I know that is ALL I have right now.
I am also worried that my niece is seeing her mom lying and manipulating, and she seems to be getting away with it.

Is my niece going to think this is the way to go in life?
It worries me. So, I am starting to address it now, even though she is only 5 years old.

I have explained to her what abuse is (in simple terms), and that there is EVIL in this world.
And sometimes, the EVIL is close by.
I don’t name any names, of course. But, she knows about evil and abuse already. And when we say prayers at night, I always pray that God will protect her, and keep her safe (God is also close by).
She hears all of this.
And, everytime I see her, I stress to her that she can come to me and tell me ANYTHING, even the REALLY BAD things, anytime she wants. I know she will talk someday. I just know it.

And when I see those unexplained bruises on her, I make sure she knows that is was NOT her fault.

That’s about all I can do right now, I think.



Thank you. And I agree that this child may be carrying around a great deal of guilt. I never thought of it that way.
And, she is being told that she is “bad”.

That’s why my mom and I always tell her what a GOOD girl she is. And she is.

We have already seen the displaced anger & other negative emotions when she comes to my house after I have not seen her in over a week or so.
But, I can usually turn that frown upside down pretty quickly.

That’s why I like to see her as often as I can.

The one smart thing my brother has done is INSIST that I am the one to care for that child.
And, he will not buckle on that condition.
So, thank you Jesus for that.

Ox Drover

Dear rosa,

Doing the best we can with the cards we are dealt is all anyone can do. We just have I think to do the part that we can do and let God handle the rest. Children need love and having at least ONE person in the world who believes in them can make a big difference in a child’s life.

I have seen my friend despair about her GD and her own P son who makes this poor kids life miserable and tries to keep her away from those that truly care about her and love her, but in spite of it all my friend has managed to stay in this child;’s life to the benefit of the child who is getting old enough at 13 to see exactly what is going on. it won’t be long before this wonderful little girl can get out from under her abusive father and step mother’s control and start a life free of this kind of emotional abuse (fortunately there is no physical abuse in this case) and she is seeing both her P father, and P step mother and BPD mother for the dysfunctional people they are and is vowing NOT to be like them and to not let their devaluation effect her own opinion of herself.

So you hang in there rosa, every minute you can spend with this child is GOLD for her soul!


Thank you.


I had a really good thought of something you might do.

I think Oxy is SPOT on. with the guilt thing. She likely feels more guilt than anything. Because her mother makes her feel guilty for being a “bad girl”.
When shes a bad girl her mom makes her feel bad not only by what she says (to her) but what she does(to her). So she is carring that weight around. (guilt for being “bad”)

Because she is so young it is hard for her to understand her feelings. She FEELS them, but can’t define them.
Sometimes when my kids were little they might “act out” like they were mad/angry about something. BUT if I asked them if they were mad/angry they would say no. So kids don’t always KNOW how to identify their feelings.

I thought about what you might do when she is with you. And if possible, EVERY time she is with you. Teach her to define feelings. Make it fun, like a game. Shes still young enough to appreciate games….

Like that old song if your happy and you know it clap your hands….Make up riddles and songs to go along with feelings.

First make a game out of questioning her. What can we do when we are:
happy = clap our hands
Lonley = Hug our doggy (stuffed animal/favorite toy)

What makes you happy, sad, angry, scared, lonely,? Give her simple examples of what makes you feel this to. See if she can identify these feelings first by “playing the game” with her.

Then once you know she does identify her feelings you can then try to give her ways to properly deal with them. In other words if she does “act out” at your house. Tell her it is ok to feel angry but have her tell you why she is angry. And go from there…..

Ox Drover

Dear Witsend,

You are so CREATIVE! GREAT ideas I think. Wish I had thought of that! Kids don’t know “words” for feelings well, especially ones that are like “guilt” and “shame” and at that age, about all she can identify is happy, sad and angry. she may not even have words for angry.

I can actually remember a time when I was about 4 probably when i was stinging buttons on a thread (a great rainy day activiity for kids) and I couldn’t get it to do what I wanted it to and I was SO FRUSTRATED I wanted to thow the whole thing on the floor and stomp on it. (I didn’t act on it, but I remember sitting there with this intense feeling) I remember that FEELING but I had no words for it at the time. It was one of those things like a snap shot that you look back on and see what was really going on with you as a kid.

I can also remember shame (from second grade) and guilt as well from when the class bully was beating me up every day and I didn’t know why and I didn’t tell anyone until she broke my jaw with a coke bottle and the teacher NOTICED. LOL

Even then, the way it was handled, was to EXCUSE her because she came from a poor family and she was the youngest of 22 kids raised in a 2-room shack—and in the end, I remember feeling that I could not be mad at her, or I was the bad kid, not her.

Mad at her wasn’t okay. Hitting her back wasn’t okay either. Maybe that wasn’t the message the teacher and my parents meant to send me, but that is the one I GOT. I felt and remember feeling (I was 6) that somehow it was my fault she “got in trouble” for hitting me.

Remembering that I tried to teach my kids that feelings, angry, sad, frustrated, etc. were OK but those feelings didn’t excuse us from hurting others, but we could verbalize them. We could FEEL them and feelings were okay.

I can even remembr my kids talking to each other (out of my sight but not hearing) and telling each other “You really make me angry when you do that.” I can also remember one of them saying to the other one, “If you do that again, I will hit you and then we will BOTH get in trouble.” LOL Ah, yes, kids!


great idea!



Yes, I did that with happy & sad faces when she was about 2-3 yrs. old.
I would ask her a question about how something made her feel, and then she would tell me how it made her feel by drawing either a happy face or sad face.

I think we need to do some more of that, and elaborate on it a little.

Learning to identify and define emotions is crucial with at-risk kids, I think.


I should also add that she is in kindergarten now.
So, she is in school during the day.

Her school teacher and the kids in her class are all positive influences for her, as far as I am concerned.
It can’t get any worse than what’s going on at home.


I think they do this in pre school as well. But you want to do it more often and include hard ones such as GUILT.

If she really gets comfortable with this game, she might even tell you something she normally would be fearful to say.

Sometimes kids also blurt things out that they might never tell you when you are asking them. (such as the bruises and where they come from)

Also I am sure you know……There is a fine line when trying to overcompensate for this childs mother.
You want her more than ANYTHING to feel safe with you. But you don’t want to spoil her either. She can’t get her “own” way at your house and then take that home with her. Because she will get into more trouble with her mother. But it is VERY good that she will learn “proper” loving discipline at your house and when she is with your mom. As she gets older she will learn that what her mother does is “different” when she disciplines her.

I don’t envy you.



Oh yes, things have already been blurted out.

And they are all documented.
Again, it’s not enough to hold up in court, though.

And this child definitely knows the difference between my house and her own house.
That’s been established for quite a while.

My prediction is that this child will be a good little girl until she reaches her teenage years.
Then, things will get interesting. That’s when things always get interesting.
I don’t have to tell you. You know what I mean.

Hopefully, there will be enough positive influences in her life to offset all of the dysfunction.
I pray that the genetic component is not there.


Very true … and very sad that teacher training programmes give ONE day on child protection and usually focus on sexual and physical abuse rather than psychological and emotional. There is no content on psychopathy or personality disorders and the signs to look out for. I included a workshop for a full day when I could but doubt my organisation will incorporate it in an ongoing way although I have advocated for this to happen. If teachers don’t know the subtle signs then how are they to know which families and children to monitor more closely?

Abuse is not always as obvious as black eyes and stitches. People who are around children need to know the more subtle ways torture can be enacted over long periods of time. I would also highlight that teachers can only do so much – they are often bound by time constraints and ridiculous demands for documentation. Yes they are in a good position to see things and to hopefully advocate for help, but getting that help and documenting their concerns takes time and if they are not supported to do this by management then where does that time come from? From their own personal time and their personal family’s time? Is that fair?

Most fulltime teachers already give 10 – 15 hours a week for free – there are limits to what one person can actually do. I see this move to put more and more responsibilities on teachers that actually belong on the shoulders of other professionals in other agencies. What about the child protection agencies>? Why are people afraid to refer to them for investigation? Why is the cure sometimes worse than the illness? In my country many children have been removed from poor home situations but put into worse situations by agencies charged to protect them. Some children have been raped and killed by caregivers that were supposedly rigorously checked out.

We have to also consider the move to corporate care for children – many after school and holiday programmes and certainly early childhood programmes are run by private corporations that sometimes have shareholders. These entities exist for one purpose only – to make profit for shareholders. And the way they usually try to trim expenses is by cutting back on staffing … hence more on each individual and no time to really investigate what is happening for individual families.

Doctors have adopted a similar ethic in recent years with appointments trimmed back to a bare slot of time to hear the complaint and then a while to prescribe. This is hardly ideal for investigating a family situation.

What we have is a problem of central government. Through a process of gradualism in the name of ‘efficiency’ and ‘cost benefit analysis’ and ‘key stakeholder returns’ all major social services have been stripped of much needed resourcing to deal with these problems. Our hospitals are short staffed and dealing with permanent turnover problems, our kindies and preschools have the same problems and schools have burgeoning class sizes and never ending curricular changes foisted on teachers. Without resourcing there is little that can be done. Perhaps awareness needs to be raised in governments in our respective countries that psychopathy and sociopathy are disorders that cut across all sectors of society, harm people of all ages and need the concerted effort of all govt departments to work together in supporting victims as they deal with the aftermath. Public awareness also needs to be raised – most people still think a sociopath is a mass murderer – they don’t realise he could easily be their next door neighbour.

It is a huge problem. But perhaps more of a problem is the fact that humans don’t seem to care about one another anymore. In advocating the Western ideal of independence and personal autonomy we leave people to their own hell if they make the wrong choices or encounter the wolf on their path. This is a business ethos, but is not suited to dealing with such human situations – no cost can be attributed to the pain a sociopath inflicts – there aren’t funds enough in the world to cover it.

The other problem is the partner of the sociopath is likely to defend them. This is possibily the biggest stumbling block of all. How can you go against the family in seeking help for a child when one person disagrees there is a problem … would be very difficult to get management support for subtle signals in that kin dof situation where there are no obvious bruises or cuts.

Thanks for writing this – made me think,


This is the right time, to put extreme public pressure on the agency that ignored the abuse to have the responsible people fired. Only by example, they will learn not to ignore such cases.


If I could tell you ONE thing to look for when the child is a pre teen or young teenager….I would say to pay CLOSE attention at how SHE percieves things.

Not so much what she puts “out there” but how she takes things IN.

She may still seem loving and fine on the outside at 10/12/13 years old…What she projects “out” to you and others might seem perfectly normal.

At that age pay very CLOSE attention to how she RECIEVES love and other emotions. Look closely to see if you think she is really “absorbing” it, taking it in?

To me the childs perception SEEMS very important in determining this at this age.

That might not be what a “professional” would tell you. But from my experience, and the abrupt change that my son went through at puberty……I just think it is a KEY in this.

Ox Drover

Recently one of our local TV anchors in Little rock, a beautiful young woman was murdered. She lived a day or two in the hospital. a physician and 2 hospital employees accessed her medical records out of CUROSITY and “violated her privacy.” They were publicly charged and convicted and sentenced and “crucified”—and yes, what they did wasx WRONG, but PRIVACY is so highly valued while SAFETY of a child seems to be so lightly taken. The laws of “privacy” seem to guard the RIGHTS of people with an STD but not the SAFETY of their partners. As a medical professional I was prohibited from telling the wife of a man that he had an STD.

I couldn’t sew up a cut on a finger of a 14 year old kid, without her parents’ permission, but I could give her birth control pills and not tell them. A young girl who has started her menses is entitled to “sexual privacy” but yet the law says I must report it if she is having sex, yet can be prosecuted by another law if I DO report it and “violate her privacy.




I will do that.

But, at the ages 10/12/13, aren’t kids trying to get away from their parents? It’s like they want nothing to do with their parents at that age.
Kids don’t want to be hugged or kissed by their parents at that age, especially in front of their peers.
So, how do you tell what is normal and what is not?


I once suspected child abuse as a teacher, and went to the home, because the kids were always stealing at school, but they were only stealing food! (one of the boys was in my class). So I wondered, but had nothing to report. So I went to the home. It was a foster mom. She told me a sad story about how the biological mother had never fed the kids so now that had a phobia about not getting enough food, so much so that she had to put a lock on the refrigerator. Young, gullible me, believed her. I went away thinking what a wonderful woman to take in all those foster kids.

Only later the boy had bruises and so I kept him in at recess and asked what had happened. Something about the shame in his face when he told me he had fallen on his bike made me kneel down beside him and say “No, your mom did that didn’t she? ” (which I suppose was stupid but I was listening to my gut for once) and the tears welled up in his eyes and then I told him it was okay, that even mom’s who love their little boys make mistakes like hitting them or not feeding them. And then he really started sobbing. And I knew and reported it and they took them from the mother, but I don’t know what happened to her after that.

He was skinny! What made me believe he was so determined to take food that she had to padlock the refrigerator? He should have been fat…all the kids should have been fat…if that were the case! She was pocketing the money given to her for their care and wasn’t even feeding them, and was depending on the school’s free breakfast and lunch program, but that wasn’t enough.

I guess I just didn’t comprehend that a woman could be lying to my face.

NOW I know what her problem was. I still have to shake myself even after example after example, to know that they don’t always look evil or seem mean, etc. UGHHHHH!


omg, Jah,
I’d need therapy after that. I need therapy anyway.
sooooo depressing.
How could God do this to so many people, I’m having a crisis of faith today.


The answer is both yes and no. At thit age they might tend to “want” to appear independent in front of their peers. But its mostly just for “show”. Because they are all in the same boat.

They NEED rides to school, practices, sporting events, sleepovers, the mall, ect. Just about everything they do at this age still includes alot of parent involvement. Lots of time spent in the car! You can feel almost like a taxi service for a few years. Lotta good communication can happen in a car…

Kind of like the joke, where the 13 year old daughter stomps up the stairs to her room yelling “Leave me alone, I don’t need you” to her mother…..And 5 minutes later comes down asking….”Mom could you drive me and Susie to the mall”?

ALOT of hot and cold….. I love you – Go Away.

I don’t have alot of experience with girls. Because I had boys.

All teenagers present challenges. But if you show them love and your pretty sure they PERCIEVE it as love, that is what you want to see.


Tonight, my youngests daughter’s homework assignement was to look up four words in the dictionary. One of them was Malevelent: WOW!!!!! WHAT? HUH? She tells me that every student gets a different set of words.

This whole thread has me thinking of how to teach my children to be perceptive of “crazies.” When things like this happen, I have to look up to heaven and wonder….

The irony is… the three older kids are more aware of those that are not “normal” then I am. They call evil “evil” immediately, while I’m still waiting for more information to decide.

I believe their awareness has a lot to do with teaching them that they have a voice, and to trust what they perceive no matter who is telling them otherwise (including me).

I can’t help but feel there is a spiritual awakening. We receive gifts, insights, whispers of knowing, words on a home work assignment, that confirm we are on the right path.

Hmmmmm… much to ponder.


Alright well we are collectively concerned about stupid privacy laws that priviledge those who harm others and about a lack of awareness and lack of funding through central agencies and how to teach children about bad people.What ideas can we come up with here?

I saw further up the posts people were talking about teaching children words for complex emotions =- that is definitely something I stress with training teachers – children don’t have words to describe states they cannot name – they just know it feels yuck but can be supported through sensitive questioning from an adult to nail down what the yuck feeling is and what caused it. Another thing I stress is not making children say sorry if they hurt someone – that teaches kids to be fake and say it just for adults without meaning it.I instead make a fuss of the victim and ignore the perpetrator while attending the upset child.After a while I talk with the perpetrator and outline what they did and the effect it had on the other child.I ask them to go and do something to make the other child feel better.It seems to work most of the time – they can’t just spit a ‘sorry’ at the kid they thumped – they actually have to think of something that will salve the hurt feelings. It might be getting a book or a cold cloth for the child or giving them a hug or listening to how they feel.

I think ultimately with the ‘crazies’ and ‘baddies’ we have to tune kids into their gut – if they follow their gut they generally won’t go wrong. We do tend to get a funny feeling around these people for some reason- incongruency of elements of their personality? I don’t know. I guess I would see this approach as educating children that there are people in the world who don’t care if they hurt people – they just don’t ever play nice. And sometimes they pretend they are nice people. I would like to see a lot more body awareness with children – so they can tune into what is actually happening in their bodies. I think this might be the only assistance with sociopaths. Maybe when we met them we were too removed from our bodily wisdom?I was definitely.

Lots lots lots to think about. The posts here always trigger more questions than they answer!

Ox Drover

I rescued a stray jdog that had spent time on the side of the highway as a pup, eating leaves and sticks and twigs, and she was neurotic about food and would eat and eat and eat, and she was OBESE unless you kept extra food away from her.

She never would quit tearing into trash because she had truly STARVED as a “child”—-but it was apparent she was getting more than enough to eat because she was FAT. You are so right, if the kids had a problem it would have been apparent because they would NOT have been “skinny”— I’m glad you got them out of her home that is a good thing. Sometimes it takes a while fo rus to SEE clearly, but you did a good thing and whatyever happened to the boys was the best thing that could have happened and I am sure she got NO MORE kids which is a good thing.

Polly, teaching kids “words” for feelings is a point I think we all should make when we are around little kids. Thinking is language oriented and without language it is difficult to form thoughts and concepts, ,so language of emotions is just as important as langage about identifying objects. They, however, have to be age-ready for some concepts and tend to be “concrete” thinkers (black and white) up to a certain age. In fact, some people never pass that stage. I think the Ps because they have words for “feelings” but not the definition of those FEELINGs (if that makes any sense) like they have the word for “love” but can’t feel it, so they really don’t know what it is. Dr. hare says they know the words but not the MUSIC to the emotional song, and I think that pretty well describes it.

Children are egocentric and concrete up to a certain age and can’t really grasp complex vocabulary or concepts, but if we start teaching them early and MODELING the behaviors and concepts we want them to grasp, they will get it sooner and better.


Very true – that is why I am banging on about the body experience – if we teach children how emotions enact themselves in the body and what they feel like then we may have more chance of them truly understanding. Yes the baby Ps may use that as ammo but at least the other children would be somewhat aware that when they got a ‘funny’ feeling around someone they need to pay more attention. I guess I am thinking about it as a personal alarm system. If someone had clued me into it before I met the Lie, I might have stood a chance – then again I might have rationalised the feelings as love or passion or whatever else. I did have an abnormal feeling very early on though now that I look back. He was expert at manipulating and could even conduct arguments by email – had I been clued up about manipulation and passive aggressive behaviour I would have been able to recognise it.

My point is we are not helping children by teaching them to say ‘No! I don’t like it!’ – bullies KNOW they don’t like it – that statement is just fuel for them. I just wonder what the answer is …

About the deprivation in early life … all species have sensitive periods – a period where a particular development must come or it can’t come later – Erikson’s psychosocial theory comes to mind in relation to this. If deprived at an early enough age, the deprivation can become a motivating script even when the danger has passed. I am linking in what I know about PTSD in this as well – even though the immediate danger has passed I still cannot relax – my muscles are all tensed and poised for some danger.

I am still thinking about all this but must now go to work!
Have a great day everyone 🙂


Oops. I spelled it wrong. It’s “Malevolent”

Yes, malignant narcissists/psychopaths are evil, as in the embodiment of the Devil ( yes, he exists!)

I blog on evil and find the most fascinating facet of evil is the fact so few believe it really, truly, horns and all, exists.


Oh an ddon’tbe fooled by the father’s suicide- psychos kill themselves….too it’s been called “Ecstatic Suicide”

Ox Drover

Hello, HWS, haven’t seen you in a while, and yes, I agree, EVIL EXISTS–I think we have all looked into the eyes of pure malevolent evil! glad you are still out there lurking and glad to hear from you!


HWS, yes, evil exists, but don’t say it wears horns. Evil is tempting and appears benign. Our job is to learn to recognize it when it’s not wearing a halloween costume.

Very interesting article you posted on your blog. I was just remembering a story I read by Yukio Mishima. It was about a suicide. From google I found a passage from one of his books. Very interesting how he writes about being unable to move past childhood. Personally I did not enjoy his writings, they were dark and disturbing as well as sadistic.
This man was obviously a narcissist.

“How oddly situated a man is apt to find himself at the age of thirty-eight! His youth belongs to the distant past. Yet the period of memory beginning with the end of youth and extending to the present has left him not a single vivid impression. And therefore he persists in feeling that nothing more than a fragile barrier separates him from his youth. He is forever hearing with the utmost clarity the sounds of this neighboring domain, but there is no way to penetrate the barrier.” (from Runaway Horses, 1969)


Reading through this thread.. I recall that my guy told me that there is no such thing as evil that it all is of God. That it is just man’s ignorance.. and I responded, yes.. it is all under God, but there is evil and he would laugh like I am so stupid…

So, he denied the existance of evil..

and also.. HELP.. am not feeling so well today.. just allergies and a bit under the weather.. but I am missing him .. I am missing the connection.. I could call him and he would comfort me… so I am missing that… HELP!!!! Talk sense into me.. I am not going to call him.. but that pattern is still in me…when I am down..


Of course, you were bonded. He was not. The comfort he offered was not real You know that.

What helps me is to sooth myself, comfort myself. Whatever does it for you…comfort food, a warm bath in candlelight…do it. Give yourself comfort, because ultimately, we are all we can REALLY count out. Be a good friend to yourself.

Also, write a list of the most horrible things he ever did to you. Get mad, that might do away with fantasyland!


No, JAH I must respectfully disagree. remember, getting mad is what a P would do and it’s what they want. They are like vampires that want to turn us into more vampires by making us feel the way they do. They want us to be hurt, angry, envious and vengeful.

Style, a comedy is what you need. Go rent a video. Laugh. make yourself happy.

Or stay on LF for a while and chat, soon all the crazy LF’ers will show up . Henry, where are you with your great stories?


Thanks I ate some comfort food and am snuggled in.. I have written and do write what the relationship really was.. so this has passed…

He was so much into my life and this time last year we were togther planning TG etc.. this month I am hit hard… even though it has been over for awhile.. and you are right.. he has gone.. what also makes it difficult is that we were in my environment so the memories are in all the places that we went and in my house.. where with him .. he is in a whole different state… with a whole new life.. and I am left with those recollections that pop in from time to time..

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