Donna Andersen has been a great friend to me and has done so much for victims of sociopaths. She deserves an award. The latest thing she did for me personally was to lend me her copy of The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy. When I initially thought about reading the book it was more expensive than it is now; the price has come down quite a bit. That is good because I am going to have to buy Donna a new copy since I’ve marked up the entire book with notes about material to discuss here. My overall reaction to the book was negative to lukewarm until I got to page 318 (that I’ll discuss next week). After that page, I came to believe that on the whole this book is a great contribution to the field.
This week I want to use a quote from a judge to begin to discuss some of the myths regarding sociopaths. Here is the quote found on page 359:
“Well I tell you, the world is full of productive sociopaths. Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, and sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. It can be productive. I think it was Clarence Darrow who commented on that”¦”
Let’s cover these numerous false assertions out of order.
- Sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. This statement is completely, absolutely, categorically FALSE. Sociopathy/ASPD/psychopathy is always a dangerous condition. It is the most toxic personality poison and only a drop in a swimming pool of water will sicken an entire city. By definition sociopathy involves serious harm to other people and a track record of serious irresponsibility. If these characteristics are not present, the individual is not a sociopath!
- It can be productive. Sociopathy is never productive. Unless you measure productivity by ruined lives and the number of dead bodies left along the road. But where would the judge and possibly Clarence Darrow get the idea that sociopathy is productive? These people are confusing sociopathy (a disorder) with the power motive or dominance drive. It is this motive that is both productive in terms of leadership and harmful in terms of aggression. This motive is present in all humans to a certain degree. The aberrant unmitigated expression of the power motive that is seen in sociopathy is neither normal nor productive. Sociopaths may be productive in spite of disorder not because of disorder. See the next point.
- Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, Connecting this statement with describing sociopathy as a benign, productive condition is where the judge goes wrong. When sociopaths manage in spite of disorder to attain the power they crave, the results are disastrous for society.
- The world is full of productive sociopaths. This statement is partly true but this truth is not a reflection of points 1 and 2 above. As a group sociopaths are hands down losers. They die at early ages, get many more serious illnesses, and abuse substances. They usually end up losing everything and occupationally disabled. There is an appearance that the number of productive sociopaths reflects the disorder, simply because of the sheer number of sociopaths in the country. At any one point in time a given sociopath may be “successful” but that is only a snap shot. There may be a few who die before they fall but these are the extreme minority. Since there are so many sociopaths even this extreme minority may seem like a lot. If you consider the life histories of sociopaths two truths emerge. Sociopaths waste energy hurting people that could have gone into building rather than destroying. Also, the only reason they survive is that others help them. They may have power but they are by no means autonomous. This is the great irony of the disorder, antisocial individuals require a society to survive and operate!
- I am still trying to verify the origin of these false beliefs on the part of the legal profession stems from famous lawyer Clarence Darrow. If anyone can produce a quote, I would be grateful.
If you think about it, this judge is exemplifying a reasoning error due to lack of training applying research to practice. It is very difficult to apply group data to an individual because any one individual at any one point in time may not display all the characteristics of the group.
The message is clear. Judges and lawyers should stop rationalizing the leniency they extend to sociopaths. They should realize them for the dangerous, parasitic individuals they are. They should stop enabling them by forcing us to be with them. That “us” includes former spouses, children and society at large.
bluejay – you care and love for your kids SHINES through. All we can truly ever do is talk and love. and you are capable of both. just let him know how much you want the best for him. to let kids know that it pains you that it is so hard for them is worth a whole lot.
bluejay – just a thought before the mice come to haul my butt to bed…
sometimes if we give the spaths ‘what they want’, they no longer want it. i wonder if you included him more and more in their lives, would he go away?
one_step_at_a_time,
Tis true – “all we can truly ever do is talk and love.” I am capable of talking and loving, reaching my children. Peace to you.
one_step_at_a_time,
He seems to enjoy being a dad, having told me that he doesn’t want to be like his own father (an unattentive, distant father who abused his kids when they were preschoolers and school-aged children, whipping them with a belt). His oldest sister was forced to raise her siblings (being the mother to them plus their own mother, being a totally dysfunctional family). My sister-in-law was the saving grace to some of her siblings, bonding with them, but somehow my h-spath didn’t bond (that’s my take on the upbringing). The h-spath likes taking the kids camping, to athletic events, etc., spending time with them. This latest development was a surprise to me, needing to think about how to handle it. There’s always something to contend with, getting sick and tired of the unnecessary crap that he pulls, having to pick up the pieces after another bomb explodes. If we didn’t have the h-spath around (obviously), we could definitely live more peacefully, but I can’t imagine him wanting to not have the kids in his life.
bluejay, you sound like a wonderful mother, I think your children will need your wisdom to guide them through this, of course… keeping in mind how much they love their father… I think it is important that they know when things go wrong that it’s not THEIR fault, I think children have a tendency to blame themselves when bad things happen because they don’t have the experience or knowledge we do. I wish upon a little star that my mother had helped me out more with life/people lessons. I was always trying to be good so my parents would not be mad at me… or trying to be nice so I would have friends, etc etc. For some reason I always blamed myself or took on the responsibility for other people’s feelings.
bluejay
loving and talking…yep! it feels so empowering to walk around choosing to love over all the other options, and it comes back, it really does. …the universe knows and joins up with you, smoothing the way….I’m getting strong impulses to forgive the P…y’know in a ‘let go’ kind of way…can’t leave him in hate, hate is like velcro…I will ‘aspire’ to let him go…but hating him is still very enjoyable.. probably because he is so out of my life now, so far away and fading….hate keeps him alive….let go…. letting go…then it’s sad….then it may be over? I pray for it to be over…outside and in…
It’s always so amazing to read peoples’ comments and to see my and my childrens’ stories in other peoples’ stories. I so relate to the emotional anguish loving moms or dads experience when the other ex s’path parent plays head games with the children – etc. My 3 grew up under this.
I separated from my now ex s’path husband 14 years ago and I am still a warrior – still fighting to protect my children and myself from Him. I’ve had to initiate 5 post divorce law actions. I’ve been stalked and harrassed (still!) – and to the normal mind there is no understanding the mind of the s’path.
But I am happy to report that my kids and I are working through this. My kids who are now 24, 21 and 15 are a lot smarter about people and as a family we have learned to CULTIVATE the positive. (It doesn’t come naturally when you feel you are under siege.)
One of the most important things that my friends and therapist have helped me to see: Worrying and projecting about what “He” or “She” will do next is an obsession. We do this to survive, but it’s so important to work to keep perspective. I did lose perspective a while back and felt suicidal – but was lucky enough to have friends and resources to help me get back to the joyful person I want to be.
I continually work to find the positive in any situation, and the positive frequently finds me. For anyone with children who is experiencing the anguish that goes with s’path activities: Stay positive, take good care of yourself, and don’t lose heart: It gets better and better!
What is truth? there are many truths and OUR personal truth is based on personal experience. so, state categorically that S.P. can not hold high offices in my view is a disservice to this sites readers and to the public at large in my view, my home province is blessed :} with many S.P. and yes they are in all walks of life and some of them stay well hidden at least in the 25 years I have lived here, I know of one that has held his station in his community for over 50 years and he still has not been exposed, yes he has damaged many lives but still he remains as a patriarchs and is viewed as first class. I listen to DR Robert Hare many years ago and he admitted that at times he has difficulty spotting S.P. Like a good Indian tracker we need to look beyond the obvious, by doing so we will see more than the obvious. and by the way I have had to deal with S.P. for over 50 years in my family and it has been only the last 25 years that I understood it. and like a good Indian tracker I see signs of S.P. every where. personally I call where I live suicide hill as we have had 5 suicides one murder-suicide and a couple attempts of suicides. I view these personalities as victims as much as there victims, We need to keep on guard as well as keep our distance from such personalities.
firebird
so natural and understandable to be worried about what he will do next and the impact he will have, you will not find the spath worrying about his impact…althought they do have a kind of obsessiveness about turning out every possible opportunity for maximum exploitation value…I’ve heard it called a “feeding frenzy” here, and it’s in my flashbacks..the P would drool at the prospect of social events where he would be centre stage and working an angle…various angles..all heartless and without a care in the world
Dear Firebird and Caprine,
You both have made some very interesting comments. Glad you are here and posting. Hang around a while and continue posting, the diversity of the posts here is what makes this the best site for healing. Welcome!