By | August 23, 2010 96 Comments

The “productive sociopath”

Yesterday, Dr. Liane Leedom wrote that “false beliefs about sociopaths are very dangerous.” She quoted a judge who said:

“Well I tell you, the world is full of productive sociopaths. Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, and sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. It can be productive. I think it was Clarence Darrow who commented on that”¦”


Today I’d like to present a case to prove her point.

Over the last 10 days, the Philadelphia Inquirer has been reporting about Carl Greene, the executive director of the Philadelphia Housing Authority (PHA).

The agency Green heads is the city’s biggest landlord, providing housing to 81,000 low-income residents. The PHA has a budget of $345 million per year, funded by the federal government, and 1,150 employees.

Greene, who was hired in 1998, currently earns $306,000 per year. But 10 days ago, it was revealed that his $615,000 townhouse was in foreclosure, and he owed the IRS $52,000 in back taxes.

And, one of his former employees has filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against him. The woman says Greene promised her a promotion, if she submitted to his sexual advances.

Greene’s tenure

Here’s where the “productive sociopath” comes in.

Before Greene was hired, the PHA had a history of waste, fraud and abuse. Greene turned the agency around, and it’s now considered to be a major success. Public housing high rises—magnets for drugs and crime—have been demolished and replaced by townhouses.  Complaints about Section 8 housing have disappeared.

But here’s what else has been going on during Greene’s tenure:

• Since 2004, six women have filed complaints against Greene with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, alleging sexual harassment, verbal abuse, retaliation, and sex discrimination. (Greene denies them.)

• Greene spent $1 million over the last two years for outside public relations experts, even though the agency has an in-house spokesperson.

• Four times a year, for the last several years, the PHA staff, outside lawyers and consultants were expected to pay up to $150 each for dinners at expensive restaurants in honor of Greene. According to the Inquirer,

There was an annual party to celebrate Greene’s birthday, one to mark his anniversary with the agency, another to laud his accomplishments, and, at Christmas, a breakfast at the Four Seasons Hotel.

Those gatherings were small compared with the bash PHA put together for Greene’s 10th anniversary on April 11, 2008. Hundreds of vendors, attorneys and “friend[s] of PHA” received letters asking them to donate $1,000 to $5,000 to Tenant Support Services Inc., a PHA nonprofit on which Greene has been a board member.

• In 2002, an audit by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development described Greene as a “demanding supervisor” who drove “a number of executive personnel” to quit.

• Employees say he’s created a culture of “fear and intimidation” at the PHA.


What’s really strange about this case is how, back in 1998, Ed Rendell, then mayor of Philadelphia and now governor of Pennsylvania, worked so hard to hire Carl Greene. At the time, Greene was head of the Detroit Housing Commission, and one of his employees had accused him of sexual harassment. At first Greene turned down the Philadelphia job, but then accepted it. According to the Inquirer, he signed a three-year contract with an amazing stipulation:

If he were found liable of sexual harassment in Detroit, PHA could fire him – but would still have to pay the balance of his contract, then worth $160,000 a year.

“One simple reason,” Rendell said last week, when asked about that clause. “When I took over as chair of the Philadelphia Housing Authority, it was perhaps the worst public-housing authority in the nation. . . . I don’t think it’s an understatement to say now that PHA is the best in the nation.”

The transformation is due to Greene, whose work “has been stunning,” Rendell said. “He has done more to improve the lives of poor Philadelphians than anyone I know.”

Bloody daggers

Money problems, sexual harassment, self-promotion, and a management style based on bullying—Carl Greene sounds like a classic sociopath. Here’s what an Inquirer columnist wrote about him:

The rap on Greene was, and is, that he’s an effective egomaniac. A vicious visionary, a determined developer, a brutal boss ”¦ Politicians and advocates learned to accommodate the two Carls because he controlled zillions in federal money and the fate of the city’s most vulnerable residents.

In other words, according to his supporters, Carl Greene was getting the job done. If a few folks got steamrolled in the process, well, that was just collateral damage that they really didn’t want to know about.

When all these troubles came to light, what did Greene do? First, he disappeared—for several days, no one knew where he was. When he did talk to the media, he apologized for his personal failings.

He also said, “People with bloody daggers are doing whatever they can to finish me off.”


Cost to settle sex-harassment cases against Philadelphia Housing chief near $900,000 on

In 2003, PHA planned to solicit big contractors on

Former Housing and Urban Development director ‘not surprised’ by Carl Greene’s troubles on

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the attitude at the heart of this evil is in this sentence:

“Carl Greene was getting the job done. If a few folks got steamrolled in the process, well, that was just collateral damage that they really didn’t want to know about….”

might as well say evil people are very effective at getting things done because they do not get pulled by the heart….you know it”s true and that’s why so many of them are elected to leadership positions…eggs omellettes, lemons lemonade…alot of cracking and squeezing to make something “Better” sociopaths do not care who they crush to get where they are going….so what’s the difference between great leadership and evil?

Ox Drover

The trains ran on time in Hitler’s Germany.

The ends justify the means?

Enough said.


of course Oxy….that’s the whole thing…yes the end justifies the means….come up with something that would confront it?? enough said?? no there isn’t enough said…keep saying…what are you saying??

Ox Drover

I read an article in a newspaper today online (forget which one) about some guys doing a DNA search on Hitler’s family members and they had determined that Hitler was probably part Jewish (other checking had said that it was 1/4th) and that he also had North African genetic traits in his genetic make up. Isn’t that a hoot! The very people he hated as “sub human” were his ancestors. Talk about “projection.” It was also determined that his “war hero” status from WWI was about like Donna’s X-husband’s—manufactured!

I dont’ say that NO psychopath has never “accomplished” anything. My own P-sperm donor eventually invented some equipment that made him wealthy and people who have used that equipment tell me it is excellent. Yet, I know for a fact that my P sperm donor “ate” employees, abused wives and children, killed at least two people, abused countless animals, etc. so was he as “successful” psychopath? As they go, he was I guess, but he was a MISERABLE FAILURE AS A HUMAN BEING. He was a miserable failure as a parent, husband, son, friend, cousin, business partner, employer, etc.

Hitler did make the trains run on time, but at what cost to others?

I personally know some surgeons that I think are very highly psychopathic, but they are excellent people with a knife and if I had to have some one cut on me, I’;d be the first to line up at their door. But at the same time, each of these people has had tumultiious relationships with their families, co workers, etc. They are miserable examples of human beings. Are they successes?

What’s a “successful” person, much less a psychopath? Who decides who is “successful” and who is “NOT-successful?”

“Even a blind pig gets an acorn every now and then.”


“People with bloody daggers are doing whatever they can to finish me off.”

This is classic narc/spath behavior, they can’t take personal responsibility for ANY of their actions. Even when evidence is compiled against them they will blame everyone else, including an alien lifeform, instead of making amends and admitting their wrongdoing. Just like good ole’ Blaggo who got off on almost all charges against him because he used that lovely spath charm on the jury and someone believed him.

It’s like they follow the same spath rulebook, “How to Spath People in Ten Easy Steps”!

1. Take no personal responsibility, even when faced with concrete evidence against you. Deny, deny, deny.
2. Steal when no one’s looking, or when you feel like it.
3. Pretend to be an upstanding citizen, people will always fall for it.
4. Run for office.
5. Make sexual advances to anyone who works for you, is married to you, neighbors, teens, male or female, basically anyone. (Just say you were joking if they want to file a sexual harassment suit against you.)
6. At NO time tell the truth about your past.
7. Use your intense stare to make your opponents (or friends) uncomfortable.
8. The truth can be used in tandom with lies, it makes the lie more credible.
9. Use your charm to get out of a sticky spot.
10. Always believe you are right. You are always right.

Just a few spathy rules to live by.


Nice one hopeforjoy! Ya gotta add ‘cry’ somewhere.


One steppers,

11. Cry when the circumstances warrant it and you need to seem like you’re human.




One Steppers,

Glad you liked some of the rules that the spaths refer to, I’m sure they wouldn’t be pleased if they knew we were sharing the secrets of their success.

Is the new therapy going well? You had some breakthroughs that seemed encouraging. The spaths take so much energy from us that recovery is endless. Although, I still think that we are the lucky ones because our tears are real and we can love for real. Take that spaths!

Really though, hope your doing well and the therapy has improved your ptsd. Better days ahead!!!



Love # 8 of the Spath list–use truth in tandem with lies to sound more credible. I think this is why there is so much cognitive dissonance–and it makes us crazy. Dr. Steve wrote a great article on here about the lies the Spath tells, and that when he tells the truth it’s a lie–because both truth and lies are used to manipulate. I think that’s what i’m going through right now. Spath’s wanna make you think–and this is exactly what mine would do—tell just enough truth so that you’ll think, wel, if he’s telling the truth abouth that, then just MAYBE he’s telling the truth about ______ (fill in the blank)



Hopeforjoy – Your spathy rules describes them to a T..I love #4 how funny but true and #8 that’s the one that causes ‘cognitive disonance’ in their victims..One thing I can say about my X is he did work but with a history of only lasting about 3 years or less at each job, I think it was boredom or his fellow employees ran him off, and he did have sex on the job with women and men, thats why he had no problem getting these women co- workers to drive 30 miles out of their way to pick him up and take him to work then back home, on the days I wasnt driving his sorry ass back and forth..I asked him one time if he helped pay the gas when Betty Boop or Fugly Turner gave him a ride and he looked at me so confused like well no..Oh it all makes sense now, the old hag across the road would walk down my driveway and if she saw my truck she would turn around and leave, I said Hon – I wonder whats that all about? I dunno he would say as he looked up from the computer..and the fights the old hag was having with her husband I could here her screamin OH I am sorry…sounded like her husband was about to kill her, I felt so sorry for her I once thot of calling 911 because the husband was screamin so loud. I said Hon Can you here them fighting? He would go get in bed and cover up his head with a blanket – Oh my I was so stupid..Well I thot he was gay, he sure seemed to be to me..little did I know he is not gay but screwsexual…Oh I could go on and on and on and on with his spathisodes..Not to mention the time he dissapeared at Ross Dress For Less for 45 minutes when I was xmas shopping , and the male floor clerked dissapeared at the same time… I remember the look ‘we’ got from the clerk when we went in – Oh I am so stupid – excuse me was so stupid,,,funny how he could lie to me and even with concrete evidence he could convince me I was crazy and I would sometimes end up opologizing for doubting him….wheewh where did all this come from I was just going to say I liked the spathy list…


Hopeful Hopeforjoy I get the two of you confused but I like both of ya..sorry..



i like that you are using the word I have contributed to LF–spathisodes. Okay, so I’m proud of myself. I feel witty. 🙂

You just had me bustin’ out! Betty Boop and Fugly Turner? Bwahahahahah! Hens, it’s sounds like it was just terrible. And you are not stupid expecting that the person you are with has the same genuine motivations. These people are SO sick, that before we know it, we DON’T know it, because most people aren’t required to wrap their brains around that level of sickness. So cut yourself some freakin’ slack eh?

Ya know what I think is interesting? I’ve heard many times–and you mention in your post about your X being with both men and women–that Spaths (not all) don’t care who they are sexual with. This is very interesting because there had been a couple of times where something the Spath said made me wonder if he was gay, even though he is the big, strong, athletic man. Before I knew he was a liar/womanizer, he was planning a trip to Burning Man and he brought up the issue of monogamy and said that he would make sure he didn’t put himself in any positions where it may be hard to resist temptation. He then asked, flippantly, if I would be less jealous (or something like that), if he were with a man. Um…excuse me? Now, I have no problem whatsoever if someone is gay or bisexual or whatever–but I believe that one should be clear with their sexual partner. With that said, I asked him if he had ever been, and he said no but….I wonder. There have been other things too where I’ve wondered. So, I wonder how many here on LF have thought the same about their Spath



Perhaps I should change my username since there are two hopefuls? I can understand the confusion. What do you think?


Ox Drover

NaH, DON’T CHANGE it, It got to be a fad around here to change names for a while and it was utterly confuuuuzin!

There is HOPE=FULL and HOPE-4 we ought to be able to keep that straight.


Dont change your name hopeful6596 just give me sometime and I will get it figured out..and I bet you a donut your X was screwsexual..just as Donna has said before – sociopaths will screw anything. And dont ever be fooled by the big strong butch athletic men not being gay..specially those that cant pass a mirror with out striking a pose or checking their hair..Anyway I think number 8 on the list triggered me – LMAO – I have tried to maintain some kind of affection for this pond scum frog turd of a guy – but as I reflect on the total disbelief of him and MYSELF it has become so f–ing evident that he is 100% certified con artist – I dont want to say hate because I dont, that would take an effort…I am also reflecting on how insane I must of sounded telling the few people about his spathisodes, I remember them lust looking away from me like I was a crazy pitiful screwed up guy…I did have my smear campaign on him I smeared the truth ..but here I no I am believed..


hopeforjoy – the neurofeedback is helping. we did a bit too much the last three times and it slayed me for a day each time. I’ll have her cut back tomorrow; i don’t want to be overwhelmed by my healing…that just reinforces ‘overwhelmed’ as acceptable, and i need to ‘practice’ underwhelmed in my life.

the flash backs have gotten a bit more intense (as predicted by the PTSD shrink), but i have less emotional reaction to them…i can ride them a more than them riding me…can stay with them and examine the experience, and deconstruct it. that is a measure of self control i didn’t have before. 🙂

i am making progress, but i still want her dead. maybe even more so. there is a pretty big flame of anger burning. may it someday burn itself out and leave me with peace.


um hens, what does a frog turd look like?

oh okay, i googled it…EWWWWWW!


Hens and Oxy-

okay, I won’t change it…but I was kinda gettin’ excited to change it to Smellsofsunflowers. Pretty, eh?

Hen–yep, I bet you’re right, but I love donuts so much, I’ll take the bet if there’s even the slightest chance of winning one! 😀

And Hens, I know how hard that must have been/be for you. When we’ve been betrayed in such a way, we wanna shout it from the flippin’ roof tops. But, many people just haven’t had an experience with a Spath, so they cannot possibly relate. And I know that in my experience, that when you HAVE had an experiences with these F***tards, even if you try and tell people, the issue is so emotionally charged for us and we SO WANT people to understand WHO this person IS and what they did and are capable of doing—I think sometimes my intensity has been offputting—I don’t know. Maybe I’m just projecting, but my point is, that people don’t seem to really get it. They usually just want to think someone is a garden-variety jerk–no big deal.


hopeful6596 – they are predators and opportunists. will do anyone to get what they want.

what he said was ” i am going to burning man to F*** other people. it may be women or men..don’t know until i found out what they have that i want.” it just sounded like something else.


One Step~

Are you doing EDMR? If not, has anyone here tried it or know anyone that has? I’m seriously considering it.


One step!

oooooh, you are SOOOOOO right.

I forget–when can I say TOWANDA???

Ox Drover


I have done the EMDR and it is WONDERFULLY HELPFUL for the symptoms of PTSD. It gets help QUICKLY too which is one of the greatest things I think about it.


‘I think sometimes my intensity has been offputting—I don’t know. Maybe I’m just projecting, but my point is, that people don’t seem to really get it. They usually just want to think someone is a garden-variety jerk”“no big deal. ‘

hp6596 – completely! i scared off my two best friends (hmmm, guess they weren’t). they TRULY didn’t get it. but neither did they really try. they knew what the spath was at the end of it all…but they were not able to handle how i couldn’t handle what happened…thought i should not be messed up, shouldn’t have PTSD, should be my same old self…nope, won’t ever be again. and thank g_d for lf – i can say horrible things here like, ‘i truly wish the spath was dead’, and people just nod their heads and think, ‘yah, me too’, or ‘she’s come far’, or ‘she’s got a way to go’….but they don’t run off and pretend nothing’s freaking happening, or that i am not a mess. there is something nice about no one here ‘knowing’ me pre spath…there are no old expectations.

maybe having my friends flee is easier for me in a way. i don’t have to struggle to be who i was and am no longer.



I think I’m going to try it. In fact, I’ve certainly got nuthin’ to lose. I called someone last week and she called back and I haven’t gotten back to her yet. I’ll call first thing in the morn. Thanks for the FYI, and I’m so glad you’ve had success with it!

I forget–is Towanda context appropriate here? hehehe


hopeful6596 – i am doing nuerofeedback –

i have done EMDR in the past for another reason. it was excellent. i had seen many people die busted up at car accident scenes, lost friends and lovers, and my mom’s life was decimated by a bad car accident… approaching driving was traumatic for me. I used EMDR. worked very well to break through the very old trauma. I got my license at 40 and became an excellent driver. when i am driving all the time i am confident and assertive…and I love driving!

and girl, you use TOWANDA anytime the spirit moves you!


One Step,

You were traumatized by this guy’s behavior and the ensuing spathisodes, as has everyone here at LF. We need people who have the quality of character and are strong enough to support us–even if they may not understand fully what our experience is. Example: I can talk about my friends’ birth of their children, but since I haven’t had children, I don’t FULLY know what it’s like. I’m not sure that was even a good example, but my point is that I can get it intellectually and conceptually, I haven’t been through the actual experience to have it integrated on an emotional level. Same with peeps that haven’t been through spathisodes–lucky them. But you get my drift, eh?


yup, i get it. i have a friend, who def. doesn’t understand from any kind of experience and she does get edgy when i rant sometimes, BUT she freaking tells me. SHE COMMUNICATES. She even read ‘the sociopath next door.’ but i think she is also rather interested in psychology generally, which the other folks aren’t interested in.

(and, now for the confusing part of the show: my ppath is a woman who pretended to be 21 people – and the one she served me on the platter all deep fried and yummy was a queer boy. it’s complicated. hens has awarded me the coveted ‘weirdest spath’ prize. I know the ‘boy’ online and on phone. and members of ‘his’ family too. the ppath is an infamous ppath. she’s getting outed more and more and there is more and more about her online. bless her heart. (insert dagger here))

Ox Drover


speaking of child birth, you know I wish sometimes we could tie a plastic bag over their heads, tie it really tight around their necks, and call it “retroactive condom.” Would sure make life more simple.

The weirdest part about your “weirdest spath” thingie, One, is that yours is NOT UNIQUE, there was one I read about somewhere else (was it on here? CRS!!!! Gosh I hate that I can’t remember.) Anyway, this person a young lady, had another young lady she met on line pretend to be a “young man” and also pretended to be “his” sister and got to be friends with the young lady and it was terrible. That was bad enough, but 21???? is that 10 and 1/2 times worse? or just 10 1/2 more weird?

Not laughing at you, One, I know at the time it must h ave been horrific, but at least you know you are NOT alone in being caught is something this weird.


One Step,

Whoa! That is some complicated shite! Ones, be very happy you are away from this person. There is nothing you or anyone else could have done differently. We all make mistakes within our relationships, but their “stuff” is their stuff. They are sick regardless of our own stuff.

That is very cool your friend communicates–and I think it’s great that she read the book by Martha Stout. I did as well, and I too am interested in all that stuff. My concentration is Psychology for my undergrad.

Nitey nite–gotta go to bed. Almost midnight here!



oxy – even before i clicked through to the thread i started to laugh. 🙂 …and it’s not stopping!!! SEE, NO ONE else would get this shit!

(i think it was 20 times weirder. I don’t know that it was worse, think it was just different…we all have trouble reconciling the many faces of the ppaths…mine were just more literal. what is weird is that i had a ‘relationshit’ with the sock puppets – thinking i was truly relating to different people. it makes some of the chit she pulled that much sicker in a way…here i was keeping ‘his’ secrets from other family members, and trying to help him against the evil predators in his life…bwahhhaha. it would be like finding out you, hens, eb, polly, CAmom, Silver, gem and witty were actually all only one person… )

the other story was a young woman who posted here. I could so relate. i don’t remember her screen name at the moment. i really understood the dynamic. she seemed to bounce back pretty fast, and in part i think that’s the blessing of youth. there are many people who pull this crap…i know. Before i knew who the ppath was i did a lot of online research – there are lots of famous cases…mind you i haven’t run across anyone doing the characters in the double digits. but, she’s old and she’s experienced. man, she must have thought the internet was the best thing since sliced bread…so many dupes, so little time.

and when i DID know who she was…well, she’s a mega pro…my friends, the ones i lost as ‘ collateral damage’…they have no idea what it has been like…just none. i wish them peace.


hopeful6596 – that’s the problem with being in this time zone – everyone else is up and about and we need to go off to bed.

the ppath fake killed the fake boy and then resurrected him. THAT was an interesting phone call. I have been NC since. many moons now. i am working on the damage and trying to get my life, physical and mental health back on track.

I know exactly what she is. NO ONE would do what she did. no one who wasn’t a ppath.


One step,

Yeah, I noticed that about the time zones. Obviously, some peeps are up well past my sleepy time, as I am right now!

That had to be such a SCAAARY phone call. Really, that is a bonafide WTF spathisode! Yowza!

Working on the damage–and you are! It sounds like you are taking care of yourself–we don’t gotta be perfect at it. I like what Oxy said in an earlier post to me, that it’s kinda like sobriety–one day at a time.



..that’s where my screen name comes from.

and actually, it wasn’t that scary. the threats that came afterward were. and finding out who she is and finding out about the things she has done to others were scarier propositions for me….seeing the depth of her disorder, over and over, from ore and more angles….seeing that she lacks humanity, knowing that evil exists in my world, that it has touched me deeply and i will never be the same – these things are scarier.

but i plan on being even better. and tougher. and wiser. and more authentic. first the PTSD, then the world…or rather, ‘my’ world.


peace out all. turning into a pumpkin.


You forgot one. Suck everyone and suck up to everyone on your way to the top then cut off heads when you become king. New rules apply to the leaders that love themselves like this Carl Greene character- thou shalt give a roast for my wifes baby sister’s cousin, and for the anniversary of my first crap on the toilet of my prosperity.


I have been reading lovefraud for over a year now to help me recover from a very strange encounter with a very strange man, but have never posted. Actually lovefraud has helped me understand a pattern of people that have been in my life ever since the first one (my father). I have had many ‘friends’ and some ‘lovers’ who looking back had to have been sociopath or psychopaths. I seem to attract them. And they seem to love to mess me around. My latest socipath ‘relationship’ for lack of a better word ended 1 year ago and I have been bound and determined to stay far away from anyone who even hints at being one, but unfortunately think I may have run into another one in my workplace this time. God will it never end!

If not a sociopath, at the very least he has no compassion and no appreciation for a very hard-working employee.

I went back to school in my 40’s into a health profession. Unfortunately the market is flooded and jobs are hard to find. As such, wages have dropped dramatically and people get treated less well overall because of the ’employers’ market situation that exists What this guy did to me is brutal.

I started july 2010 just as a fill-in worker and then got offered a regular part-time job in October. I worked from October to June 2010, at which time the owner of the business sold it to his two sons. One son handled the health side of it (he is a dentist). The other side handled the managerial side (no dental background).

From the 1st time I met him(the new manager), I knew something was off. His smile was fake He even had minor but noticeable speech impediment(don’t some sociopaths?). He made me uncomfortable.

One day when I was on lunch and walking towards my car, the new manager stopped me and asked me to make sure that the popcorn was picked up off the floor in the area I work in. I said sure, I always try to do that. I was insulted and thought it rude that he should ask me that. I mean it is a kids area and there is often popcorn spills. When that happens I pick them up. I am very careful to keep the whole area neat and tidy as I am a neat and tidy freak by nature. Anyhow, I found it strange that he had to flag me down to complain about something that was not an issue in the 1st place. That was my 1st clue he was power tripping. It was also insulting cause I am a heal professional not cleaning staff.

I am an extremely hard-working, dedicated person who cares about the patients as well as making sure all i’s are dotted and everything is done correctly. I spend extra time (unpaid) making sure my notes are all detailed and I review my patients for the next day all on my own time. I am friendly, but quiet friendly. I know I connect with people, and many times patients tell me I’m nice and ask to book with me. I never missed a day at work and was never late.

Anyhow, June came around and the manager gave me a new schedule for the summer where he completey changed my days of work and hours without even asking if it was OK. He also moved me out of the childrens area and into the adult area. I was happy about that because I really needed the experience of working with adults, but worried as to what that meant for September.

I was worried because he hired 2 very young, pretty, bubbly blonde girls that he interviewed himself to work in my place in the children’s area. When I asked him pointblank if I would be moved back to the children’s area in Sept, he mumbled something about no guarantees. That was my 2nd clue I was gonna get shafted by him.

These 2 new girls were not at my level of performance. My once well-organized children’s area became somewhat chaotic. The only thing they had on me was youth and cuteness.

Just this week, the manager took me aside and without even a ‘sorry’ in his words, just said that I was no longer going to have a job as of Sept. He said my contract (that I never knew I had) was expired. He expressed zero sympathy…did not even offer me a seat. I mentioned the fact that it made no sense to hire 2 new people and then fire me as I had been there longer and proven myself a good employee. He got defensive and made up some stupid lie that i had been told numerous times to keep the movies replaying for the children. First of all, I was not told that even once. 2nd I did keep the movies playing, and 3rd that is an insulting reason to be terminated when my job is a dental professional, not a babysitter.

Then he had the nerve to ask me if I would be available as a fill-in! The word NO came out of my mouth very fast.
Obviously, he thinks I am good enough to have in once in a while, but not someone he wants there on a regular basis.

All throughout the day, I constantly hear him giggling with the 2 young cuties he hired himself. He is 28 and the previous owner’s son. That is how he got the job as Controller…born with a silver spoon.

I feel so angry. My co-workers have been very nice and expressed their surprise. They all know what a hard worker I am. Some of them are scared they are next. He actually got rid of someone else a few weeks before me. SHe was an office person, not a health profesional and his moms best friend apparently! She was also known to be a very hard worker. One day she did not show up. WIth me they are keeping me around just to finish up the AUgust schedule of patients that is already booked for me.

What I have learned from this experience is that hard work does not always pay. I really do think that this guy knows I pegged him for what he is…if not a sociopath…definitely a man on a power-trip, a man with zero compassion and a man who does not appreciate a dedicated employee. I think he does not like people who think too much and ask questions. He prefers ‘yes’ girls, which I am not. I had made previous suggestions and raised concerns about some infection control procedures that were not followed properly…but got nowhere with them. I think my professionalism actually contributed to my demise…not just the fact that am no longer young and hot. Actually not true…I am hot for 48 years old!

GRRRRRR..I am in the angry phase of healing right now. It is going to be very hard to get a new job. The stigma of having been let go is not going to help. I so did not deserve this.



Good for you, going back to school in your 40’s. I agree about how being an outstanding employee doesn’t guarantee anything in this world. There are employers out there that want quality people working for their business, not fluff. I hope that you land a job in a dental practice that is way better than where you’ve been. I know that it hurts to be treated the way that you have been treated, unfairly. I would go on and apply to other practices, praying that you land in a great work place. Your current employer is the one who lost out, making a bad business decision by letting you go. By the way, what does the dentist think of your work – does he want you to stay? Is this a decision that he approves of or knows about, being curious. Also, what does he think about the newest employees? In the end, you just might want to work elsewhere, being with a more stable, professional group of dental practitioners. Good luck.

super chic

Hi Kat, nice to meet you dear! I read your post and I am very upset about what happened to you. It’s not right, it’s sickening, and possibly against Federal Laws of Discrimination !!!!! If you can, I think you should speak to an attorney, AGE discrimination is against the law, are you in the USA? Maybe you could search around on the internet about this, I am not an attorney so I really can’t give professional advice, but it just sounds so wrong to me I want to kick that little jerk in the ass.



I love the spathy tips…especially the ‘pretend to be an upstanding citizen’ ha ha yeah what are you standing ON, a lot of crushed people…beware of the upstanding citizen! and check it’s not your head they are standing on

it’s disturbing that whole mix of productivity and Sociopathy…I worry about it… maddening that it takes a trail of destruction, before some of these spaths are even noticed….people will keep pointing to the “good” they have done, so it’s a great cover, a great smokescreen for them to thrive under…they are slippery eels they that go undetected till massive hurt piles up…that I was in major trouble before I even noticed…so good were the lies…real harm came knocking dressed as wholesome


THis is the only pic of him I could find on the whole internet (odd in itself…) and guess what – he aint smiling! The other guy is though…. It’s my experience of these people that they rarely smile in photos or rather they all seem to have a similar ‘look’ on their face which normal people who don’t smile don’t have.



Why yes, Sociopaths are indeed productive. The are prolific and profligate patholigcal liars. They are prolific and profligate womanizers and manizers. They are prolific and profligate manipulators of your reality and skewers of the truth. They are prolific and profligate mind f**kers. So yes, spaths are the ultimate in productivity. Any questions?

This is my mind on Spath. (sound of egg frying) 🙁

Ox Drover

Hello Kat,

And glad you posted! Of course you got shafted by the psychopath. He wanted the cuties not an employee that did her job. And it is a fact that sometimes hard work does NOT pay off. More times than not it does, but then you have situations like that one that nothing you could have done different or better would have helped you at all. If you are in the US you might look into an age discrimination law suit if you are over 50, but probably wouldn’t help you if you are under 50.

About all you can do in a situation like this is chalk it up up a “lesson in life” and move on, but hope you can find a better job working for better people. Glad you posted though, because this kind of thing is another aspect of the Ps we need to learn about.

Ox Drover

Thanks for the Pic Genevieve, but it appears he has a SMIRK on his face instead of a smile. Interesting! How are you doing BTW? Good to see you posting!!!!


12. Run a large church. This is still working for the Rev. Tim Keller, who controlled my sex life for a short time and never even had to meet me.
13. Always demand that people give you credit for your work, even if it’s plagiarized. Keep that self-promotion machine humming!
14. If people catch you in a lie, point to your tragic past, and how your noble efforts to bring justice to this world have resulted in beatings. (No, it wasn’t at all because somebody even more psychopathic got tired of your act. Why would you ask a thing like that? Sob, sob.)

Separately, has anybody noticed the similarities between this Philadelphia Housing Authority guy and Rudy “Mayor Hardass” Giuliani? The former mayor of Detroit, who likely hired the Philadelphia goon, has his own problems, too. Look up “Kwame Kilpatrick.” Or is it “Kirkpatrick”?


Hey Kat, I just read your long post. You will find a job. My advice is, tell the truth about your former employer, with your chin up high.

For a while in the early 2000s recession, I had to settle for working as a receptionist in a real estate office. I accepted low pay and no benefits because I was ill and needed to stay close to home. It was pleasant for a while, and I liked most of the people I worked with — until I realized there was a serious culture of oppression there and I had to just get out.

I left things “pleasant” with my former employer by just probing her about what she didn’t want me to do, and we agreed to disagree that I had a different way of doing things.

Whew. OK, cleared that hurdle.

I looked around for a similar job in the neighborhood and was quickly called back by the two partners in a place down the street. They wanted to meet me for lunch, as an interview.

I rehearsed my answers carefully, so as not to give any hint that I’d had any “falling out” with, let’s call her, Rosemary. These people had even been her former partner, so I was especially on my guard.

And then they said, “Tell us what you really think.” What? “Come on, what did she do?” I was confused! They told me that, as Rosemary’s previous business partner, they had to actually go through group therapy to dissolve the partnership.

Holy cow. Rosemary is a well-known person in the community, active in historic preservation and other things, a real “productive psychopath.” And these people were still hurting from their encounter with her about 10 years later.

So I told them what I thought, honestly, and they offered me the job. (I turned them down later, but for other reasons.)

If you’ve dealt with a psychopath, come out with it. Tell it like it is. If you don’t get that job, you were not meant to get it.

I say this because, toward the end of that recession, I was going on interviews for legal secretarial positions. I take a lot of pride in my abilities in that area, and I can even deal with difficult, “high-powered” lawyers. But the first question was not, “How good are you at handling assertive lawyers?” but “How good are you at accommodating screamers?” My answer was, nobody screams at me. We solve the problem, and we don’t scream. Wrong answer!

I realized, if they’re asking me to be a doormat, I don’t need that job. (And I was, literally, not getting enough to eat at the time.) They’re right: I don’t have the right “personality” to deal with Mr. or Ms. Psychopath. But if you’re in business as an honest law firm, and you honestly need to get something done through an intelligent assistant who doesn’t break down in a combat situation, call.

It worked out fine for me. I got a job in another field, editing. And I was offered a salary commensurate with my abilities. Not a perfect place, and I get disciplined for hanging up the phone on screamers, but this place is hypersensitive to lawsuits.

Know your worth, Kat!


Lots of pictures of Carl Greene if you search Google images. He looks pretty normal to me. They have to look like they belong where they are. Interesting comment about the smiling.

Ox Drover

Welcome, SiblingHell, don’t think I’ve seen you post before. I can tell from your screen name that you probably “qualify” for our little club. It’s not a club anyone would WANT to join, but if you qualify for member ship then you have arrived at the BEST PLACE available on the web.

Hope you will hang around and post more. Again, Welcome. God bless.


need some feedback please – the last couple of weeks when i read what i write i notice i am making lots of spelling and editting mistakes and my explanations seem to be missing bits and pieces. can anyone give me some feedback as to whether or not they are noticing these traits in my writing. i feel like i am losing it a as much as i think i am being clear and coherent then i re read and i am shocked at what i am seeing. my concern is if i am doing this here, then i may also be doing this at work.

i am started to get into some extreme anxiety around work – not getting the support i need, expectations are high but no ‘team’ to work with, no support from the director who seems to need to ponder a lot, but doesn’t get back to me (don’t know what the message is with that – he IS extremely busy running for a political office), and i think i am making some people mistakes. and part of the people mistakes are perhaps that i am not communicating well. (don’t feel so comfortable there) am eating myself in to a stupor at night.

god, i am just so overwhelmed on a daily basis. the jerk landlord is tlaking about painting the outside of the building – that WILL kill me. i walked in a doorway of a builidng that had a tiny bit of fresh pain this aft and my face went numb. i keep feeling the edge or life than i feel this damn nightmare again wherein everything is just ‘off’ and other things are truly dangerous. i am getting SO TIRED. just so tired.


Onestep – I will be blunt with you. When you first started blogging you were all over the place, very choppy and hard to follow. I have seen lot’s of improvement with your post. I have seen lot’s of improvements with your anger towards the spath episode. I think you are overwhelmed though. May I ask if you think you were ‘better’ before the spath encounter? I am worried about you and your health.. I will be very blunt again and ask for your forgiveness in advance if I offend you, Is this constant illness a plea for attention that you didnt get as a child? Maybe you should talk to a therapist about this, I am so worried about you and please dont be offended..I am blessed with good health and wish you were also…

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