Donna Andersen has been a great friend to me and has done so much for victims of sociopaths. She deserves an award. The latest thing she did for me personally was to lend me her copy of The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy. When I initially thought about reading the book it was more expensive than it is now; the price has come down quite a bit. That is good because I am going to have to buy Donna a new copy since I’ve marked up the entire book with notes about material to discuss here. My overall reaction to the book was negative to lukewarm until I got to page 318 (that I’ll discuss next week). After that page, I came to believe that on the whole this book is a great contribution to the field.
This week I want to use a quote from a judge to begin to discuss some of the myths regarding sociopaths. Here is the quote found on page 359:
“Well I tell you, the world is full of productive sociopaths. Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, and sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. It can be productive. I think it was Clarence Darrow who commented on that”¦”
Let’s cover these numerous false assertions out of order.
- Sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. This statement is completely, absolutely, categorically FALSE. Sociopathy/ASPD/psychopathy is always a dangerous condition. It is the most toxic personality poison and only a drop in a swimming pool of water will sicken an entire city. By definition sociopathy involves serious harm to other people and a track record of serious irresponsibility. If these characteristics are not present, the individual is not a sociopath!
- It can be productive. Sociopathy is never productive. Unless you measure productivity by ruined lives and the number of dead bodies left along the road. But where would the judge and possibly Clarence Darrow get the idea that sociopathy is productive? These people are confusing sociopathy (a disorder) with the power motive or dominance drive. It is this motive that is both productive in terms of leadership and harmful in terms of aggression. This motive is present in all humans to a certain degree. The aberrant unmitigated expression of the power motive that is seen in sociopathy is neither normal nor productive. Sociopaths may be productive in spite of disorder not because of disorder. See the next point.
- Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, Connecting this statement with describing sociopathy as a benign, productive condition is where the judge goes wrong. When sociopaths manage in spite of disorder to attain the power they crave, the results are disastrous for society.
- The world is full of productive sociopaths. This statement is partly true but this truth is not a reflection of points 1 and 2 above. As a group sociopaths are hands down losers. They die at early ages, get many more serious illnesses, and abuse substances. They usually end up losing everything and occupationally disabled. There is an appearance that the number of productive sociopaths reflects the disorder, simply because of the sheer number of sociopaths in the country. At any one point in time a given sociopath may be “successful” but that is only a snap shot. There may be a few who die before they fall but these are the extreme minority. Since there are so many sociopaths even this extreme minority may seem like a lot. If you consider the life histories of sociopaths two truths emerge. Sociopaths waste energy hurting people that could have gone into building rather than destroying. Also, the only reason they survive is that others help them. They may have power but they are by no means autonomous. This is the great irony of the disorder, antisocial individuals require a society to survive and operate!
- I am still trying to verify the origin of these false beliefs on the part of the legal profession stems from famous lawyer Clarence Darrow. If anyone can produce a quote, I would be grateful.
If you think about it, this judge is exemplifying a reasoning error due to lack of training applying research to practice. It is very difficult to apply group data to an individual because any one individual at any one point in time may not display all the characteristics of the group.
The message is clear. Judges and lawyers should stop rationalizing the leniency they extend to sociopaths. They should realize them for the dangerous, parasitic individuals they are. They should stop enabling them by forcing us to be with them. That “us” includes former spouses, children and society at large.
bulletproof
tobehappy
your 16 year old sounds wonderful…a vegan, such a considerate, healthy way of life…mmmmh that food sounds great….tofu…yum….and to be confident enough in herself to screen out negative friends, that is great…I think of me at 16….ooh I’d rather not…wish I had a mother like you…I wouldn’t care what mistakes she made in the past
Twice Betrayed
I received Donna’s book and have enjoyed reading it!!!!
Ok, need advice, please! Seems I have been targeted again by a P, a very productive P, which is why I am posting here. Let me set the scene and you all, please tell me what you think! You know, I still don’t trust myself in this area after being married to two P’s.
I met this P thru my professional ties. He’s pretty known, as he is in a profession that brings him in the public arena. He’s VERY handsome! Smart, funny, witty, moving fast and seems to be stuck on me. The more I avoid him, the more he seeks me out. RED flag, right? I reallllllly like him, but there’s that gut feeling that something is wrong.
OK:
1. He flatters me greatly with lavish praise.
2. ONLY talks about himself, what he wants, believes, needs etc.
3. Past relationships all disasters and totally blames the woman in each case.
4. Sends messages and then disappears….
5. When he feels me running from him, watches for me and gives me some ‘verbal bones’.
6. WAY too handsome!!!! Masculine, square jaw, piercing eyes etc. This guy is like a 12+ on a scale of 10 look wise.
7.Many females chasing him, why focus on me? Seems I ‘have something’ that attracts him.
8. Handsome, talented, smart etc as he is, seems lonely yet has many friends.
I should say, when talking to him, I do all the listening and say very little….I can’t, it would be interrupting to say something! Outgoing only. Wears on my nerves, yet no way to get loose from him, he uses politeness to keep me in a positive position.
Thanks for all your help!
Ox Drover
Dear TB,
CAN WE SAY “LOVE BOMB,” Children? Of course we can, PERRRRRFECT EXAMPLE OF THE LOVE BOMB!
RUN!!!! RUN!!!! Run TB, RUN!!!!!
If nothing else he is the purrrrrrfect example of a narcissistic arsehole!
You are wonderful, and you are beautiful and deserve praise, but NOT LIKE THIS—– so RUN BAMBI RUN!!!!! LOL
Ox Drover
ps TB: “politeness to keep me” **POLITELY*** TELL HIM THAT YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED.
bulletproof
He sounds completely red flag and utterly irresistable!
here is the conflict within ME just from reading your post, I can only imagine what you are going through!!!
My sick twisted romance shadow wants to “play”(3 elements have me tantalised) so I have to accept…the Ego in me has been triggered…
1 He is drop dead gorgeous ( I really like gorgeous looking men)
2 He only has eyes for me (because He really sees me and is attracted to my soul)
3 Other women would give their right arm for him, but I have him!
(How GOOD I’m going to look infront of all my friends and family)
4 He is soooo honest (because he is telling me how beautiful I really am)
okay…now you have to see what has YOU hooked and about to be landed like a trout
the lavish flattery……in between talking about himself..and maybe all those other women were below standard and he wants THE BEST (which of course is me)
sends messages an then disappears (what can I say He is a busy guy with lots going on because he is so dynamic and cool)
so he tugs the line in a tantalising cat and mouse foreplay
piercing eyes….(oooh I’m mesmerised, hypnotised, brain washed)
He wants me…I must be amazing!
all his friends even though he is still lonely (not anymore I am the answer to his dreams)
Oxy!!!! we are going to need a big mother of a skillet over here quick
kim frederick
Hi, TB. Where ya been?
The fact that he does all the talking and it’s all me, me, me, and the fact that you feel there is something wrong, and he gets on your nerves, tells me at best he’s a N. The fact that he is most interested in you when you are trying to avoid him, tells me he is all about winning and control. Ego, ego, ego.
The fact that he’s incredibly good-looking and flatters you ,tells me YOU ARE IN DANGER OF GETTING IN OVER YOUR HEAD, so please, please, please, listen to your gut and get away from him. You can’t afford to waiver, you have to be stead-fast and allow no room for mixed messages to leak in. What I mean by that is he must be certain that you don’t want him…he doesn’t stand a chance.
I’m already worried that he will continue to pursue you, even if you tell him NO.
tobehappy
I met a guy on match.com a few months back. All he did was talk talk talk about HIM. Never asked me about ME! GIANT TURNOFF!!! UGH!!!
Found out that he is a leach…parasite…lives off of women…owes lots of money to IRS….omg….he is a big liar and phoney. Caught him in a few.
Dumped him after first date. He still calls me. UGH!
Don’t be desparate and fooled by his charm!!
tobehappy
Thanks BULLETPROOF….
I am not perfect and my girls are at the age where they are “immitating” me and poking fun at me….and they make me laugh! lol…But, I just want them to be tough warriors out in this big bad world….to be ‘bulletproof’…something I wasn’t. I was too insecure to stand up for myself and wanted approval from people. (NO more of that!)
I teach them Louise Hay’s stuff….saying “I love you” in the mirror daily!!! I want them to have confidence.
Ox Drover
Dear TB, so it apparently is a score of ZERO for you guy “friend”—I think everyone (and including you) have their RED FLAG detectors going off full blast! He just sounds so stereotypical P that it is almost funny. Wouldn’t it be great if someone that good looking and so on would be REAL but I think NOT this one. Oh, well, at least you didn’t get HOOKED BIG TIME and coming back here saying “Oh, guys, I got hooked again!” LOL
Twice Betrayed
Hey Gals:
Ok, got skillet and knocked head! Told him NO many times, he’s still after me. Friends on FB, now my daughter is after him, since he’s a looker. They are on their way to being FB friends! Will keep him tied to me and worm his way in. Daughter has her own P skills, no prob there. It’s just I don’t want any part of him. I am not hooked….too scared. But, the looks are seriously tempting! However, logic is overruling and I am safe there! Not like when I was twenty, thank God!
Hmmmm, how to disengage. He’s targeted me, apparently. May think I have money and want a boy toy. No on both counts.
Yikes, how to get loose!!!!!!!!!!