Donna Andersen has been a great friend to me and has done so much for victims of sociopaths. She deserves an award. The latest thing she did for me personally was to lend me her copy of The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy. When I initially thought about reading the book it was more expensive than it is now; the price has come down quite a bit. That is good because I am going to have to buy Donna a new copy since I’ve marked up the entire book with notes about material to discuss here. My overall reaction to the book was negative to lukewarm until I got to page 318 (that I’ll discuss next week). After that page, I came to believe that on the whole this book is a great contribution to the field.
This week I want to use a quote from a judge to begin to discuss some of the myths regarding sociopaths. Here is the quote found on page 359:
“Well I tell you, the world is full of productive sociopaths. Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, and sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. It can be productive. I think it was Clarence Darrow who commented on that”¦”
Let’s cover these numerous false assertions out of order.
- Sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. This statement is completely, absolutely, categorically FALSE. Sociopathy/ASPD/psychopathy is always a dangerous condition. It is the most toxic personality poison and only a drop in a swimming pool of water will sicken an entire city. By definition sociopathy involves serious harm to other people and a track record of serious irresponsibility. If these characteristics are not present, the individual is not a sociopath!
- It can be productive. Sociopathy is never productive. Unless you measure productivity by ruined lives and the number of dead bodies left along the road. But where would the judge and possibly Clarence Darrow get the idea that sociopathy is productive? These people are confusing sociopathy (a disorder) with the power motive or dominance drive. It is this motive that is both productive in terms of leadership and harmful in terms of aggression. This motive is present in all humans to a certain degree. The aberrant unmitigated expression of the power motive that is seen in sociopathy is neither normal nor productive. Sociopaths may be productive in spite of disorder not because of disorder. See the next point.
- Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, Connecting this statement with describing sociopathy as a benign, productive condition is where the judge goes wrong. When sociopaths manage in spite of disorder to attain the power they crave, the results are disastrous for society.
- The world is full of productive sociopaths. This statement is partly true but this truth is not a reflection of points 1 and 2 above. As a group sociopaths are hands down losers. They die at early ages, get many more serious illnesses, and abuse substances. They usually end up losing everything and occupationally disabled. There is an appearance that the number of productive sociopaths reflects the disorder, simply because of the sheer number of sociopaths in the country. At any one point in time a given sociopath may be “successful” but that is only a snap shot. There may be a few who die before they fall but these are the extreme minority. Since there are so many sociopaths even this extreme minority may seem like a lot. If you consider the life histories of sociopaths two truths emerge. Sociopaths waste energy hurting people that could have gone into building rather than destroying. Also, the only reason they survive is that others help them. They may have power but they are by no means autonomous. This is the great irony of the disorder, antisocial individuals require a society to survive and operate!
- I am still trying to verify the origin of these false beliefs on the part of the legal profession stems from famous lawyer Clarence Darrow. If anyone can produce a quote, I would be grateful.
If you think about it, this judge is exemplifying a reasoning error due to lack of training applying research to practice. It is very difficult to apply group data to an individual because any one individual at any one point in time may not display all the characteristics of the group.
The message is clear. Judges and lawyers should stop rationalizing the leniency they extend to sociopaths. They should realize them for the dangerous, parasitic individuals they are. They should stop enabling them by forcing us to be with them. That “us” includes former spouses, children and society at large.
Thanks everyone!!!!!!! I’m thinking it’s not going to be easy to get rid of this one………
Twice Betrayed:
If I were in your position with this gorgeous potential P, I would just ask the question, “What do you want?”
It’s a simple question, and he should be able to answer it.
You say, “4. Sends messages and then disappears”.”
For me, this #4 is him trying to get you to chase him.
Any man who sends a message and then disappears is a PLAYER who wants to be chased.
It screams “Chase ME”. That’s how I would interpret that one.
Anyway, Twice Betrayed, I think you have at minimum a MAJOR PLAYER on your hands.
I think he’s giving you all of his attention when you are present with him.
But, when you are not around, he’s probably seducing
someone else.
I don’t have to tell you that’s how they roll.
You already know.
You are a smart lady.
I have faith that you will not let yourself get sucked into anything toxic.
Here’s how you get loose from him, TB.
Tell him you make it a rule to wait at least 6-8 months before having sex when you meet someone new.
Tell him you really like to get to know someone first.
He’ll be gone tomorrow.
I gotta go….I’m baking Henry a birthday cake.
Thanks, Rosa! I’m not intimate with him. And he has already spun the ‘get to know me’ story. I’m not buying. LOL
Yeah, it is how they roll! You’re right!
Think this guy collects hearts like charms. Plus, I just may be the best target he’s got going at the time. I don’t kid myself. No matter how much a person has going for them, these people are after your soul and all you own! No exceptions!
Just no way to get shed of him politely, looks like! I may have to avoid him at work and block him on FB which is gonna tick him off!
Oh yeah, I’ve got a hilarious story regarding my PX….I’ll share it with you all as soon as I get thru with work! Get ready to rock and roll with laughter!!!!!!!!!
Thanks everyone! GREAT advice! Just imagine a few years ago before Women Who Love Psychopaths was published, would not have understood, let alone, recognized what was going down! Now, thanks to this info and Lovefraud blog we have this available to us! It’s obvious you ladies know your P’s and N’s!
Whew! Saved by the book/blog and LF friends!
In process of disengaging! Not returning calls/texts and may have to FB block. Don’t want to make him mad, but see no way out w/o his being angered.
PX hub: You know I told you he married a Columbian woman? Well, seems he got fired from his high paying job and has flipped his lid, called my daughter and said he’s sailing his yacht to South America!!!!!!!!!!! Figure they may find him butt up in the jungle! YIKES! ;P
*I was just too boring, hope he has his adventure now! 😉
Twice Betrayed
I’m laughing….it’s too funny!! and you don’t have to change your name to three times betrayed …and on the serious side, you have had to let go of something, some hope…some denial, that’s going to hurt a bit….but you are great to have declined, if you can hold with it..that’s your self esteem up several notches..sleep wellx
LOL @....... TB Butt up in the jungle 😛
Hilarious!
I would definitely FB block him as that will stop your daughter from adding him from your list. Sounds like a good bet for a night of passion if you don;t mind the possibility of catching something.
I agree with Rosa’s take on being honest … I tell my dates the truth about why I won’t jump into a relationship or bed with them. I tell them that I am still healing from a relationship with a personality disordered person and would need a romantic relationship to be built on solid friendship as a prerequisite. It’s been a positive approach so far – everyone has understood and I;ve had no pressure put on me.
The experience with the P fundamentally changed my life so anyone who’s not tolerant of the after effects for me is not going to be in my life. I think it’s almost like losing a limb – the effect is permanent and will always be in your life so you need understanding people around you.
Bullet: You nailed that: 3 times betrayed! You know, now, it really doesn’t bother me that much. At first when I let his looks get to me, it bothered me. But, after I met him/talked, or rather listened, I stopped seeing the looks as much as I heard what I felt was an N/P talking! That’s why studying/talking on LF and what some would call ‘rehashing’ is so important. It’s like training! You go into ‘trained’ mode when you hear them speaking etc. Instead of focusing on the person, you begin to hear the con and the P/N traits coming out. It’s great!
Thanks, Bullet! ((((hugs))))
Polly: LOL! Got a visual on that butt up in the jungle? I did too! ;P
Ah, this one is slick. He has backed off and is no longer pressuring me. Waiting patiently [but I can feel/hear the impatience in his voice] for the bait to be taken. Wants to just be friends etc…yah, yah, yah. And that typical P trait of bouncing your words/desires etc right back to you.
I would so have to agree with your analogy of losing a limb! He’s texting photos of himself now. He’s a winner in the looks dept. In the running for a TV show offer-as good looking as George Clooney. I am or rather was a sucker for a good looking, smart, masculine male.
TB;
Well….welll…..now its clear what you gave LF up for! 🙂
I say……use his good looks…..f%$ck him for your OWN pleasure, take what you want from him, drain his finances, all his resources, make him fall in love with you…..and THEN… DUMP HIS ASS!!!!
Spread rumors about his small yankee……and how shiaty he is in the sack, and how he has bad breath and is really a bit tubby under all that georgous……..THEN call him, text him and send messages on FB and tell him how sorry you are (or just deny all of it) and that you really want to get together with him and try it out again…..RINSE REPEAT!
No…..just kidding.
REALLY!!!!!!
This guy ain’t worth a backspath…….
Run….you know better…..your just getting caught up in the hot-ness and ONCE AGAIN=fantasy!
The fact your daughter is hunting him too is a ‘good’ sign……fight her for him…….(superficially)….and let her win the BIG HOT SPATH …….and then gift her ALL the impact a spath can infuse into a dupes life…..it sounds like she may deserve him.
What a gift……isn’t this the same d who went after step daddy-0 too?
Run girl…..come back to LF…..at least you stay out of most trouble while here.
You need a refresher LF course …….
To get rid of him….JUST DO IT.
N/C….not interested, turn him into a grey rock…..and go do some gardening.
I think your wrestling over the hotness factor really.
(Can’t say I blame you)…..but REALITY DOES EXIST!!!!!
(ass up in the jungle!)
Polly…..
GIRL……where ya been?
Hopefully, nurturing that limb.
EB You BAD girl!!!!! That’s what I had in mind too but heaven only knows where he’s been.
TB – your ex down the Amazon links nicely with the shorts I’ve seen for Pirhana in 3D – maybe he won’t keep that butt too long!