Donna Andersen has been a great friend to me and has done so much for victims of sociopaths. She deserves an award. The latest thing she did for me personally was to lend me her copy of The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy. When I initially thought about reading the book it was more expensive than it is now; the price has come down quite a bit. That is good because I am going to have to buy Donna a new copy since I’ve marked up the entire book with notes about material to discuss here. My overall reaction to the book was negative to lukewarm until I got to page 318 (that I’ll discuss next week). After that page, I came to believe that on the whole this book is a great contribution to the field.
This week I want to use a quote from a judge to begin to discuss some of the myths regarding sociopaths. Here is the quote found on page 359:
“Well I tell you, the world is full of productive sociopaths. Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, and sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. It can be productive. I think it was Clarence Darrow who commented on that”¦”
Let’s cover these numerous false assertions out of order.
- Sociopathy by itself is not necessarily a dangerous condition. This statement is completely, absolutely, categorically FALSE. Sociopathy/ASPD/psychopathy is always a dangerous condition. It is the most toxic personality poison and only a drop in a swimming pool of water will sicken an entire city. By definition sociopathy involves serious harm to other people and a track record of serious irresponsibility. If these characteristics are not present, the individual is not a sociopath!
- It can be productive. Sociopathy is never productive. Unless you measure productivity by ruined lives and the number of dead bodies left along the road. But where would the judge and possibly Clarence Darrow get the idea that sociopathy is productive? These people are confusing sociopathy (a disorder) with the power motive or dominance drive. It is this motive that is both productive in terms of leadership and harmful in terms of aggression. This motive is present in all humans to a certain degree. The aberrant unmitigated expression of the power motive that is seen in sociopathy is neither normal nor productive. Sociopaths may be productive in spite of disorder not because of disorder. See the next point.
- Some of them hold high public office. Some of them are lawyers. It could be that a couple of them are judges, Connecting this statement with describing sociopathy as a benign, productive condition is where the judge goes wrong. When sociopaths manage in spite of disorder to attain the power they crave, the results are disastrous for society.
- The world is full of productive sociopaths. This statement is partly true but this truth is not a reflection of points 1 and 2 above. As a group sociopaths are hands down losers. They die at early ages, get many more serious illnesses, and abuse substances. They usually end up losing everything and occupationally disabled. There is an appearance that the number of productive sociopaths reflects the disorder, simply because of the sheer number of sociopaths in the country. At any one point in time a given sociopath may be “successful” but that is only a snap shot. There may be a few who die before they fall but these are the extreme minority. Since there are so many sociopaths even this extreme minority may seem like a lot. If you consider the life histories of sociopaths two truths emerge. Sociopaths waste energy hurting people that could have gone into building rather than destroying. Also, the only reason they survive is that others help them. They may have power but they are by no means autonomous. This is the great irony of the disorder, antisocial individuals require a society to survive and operate!
- I am still trying to verify the origin of these false beliefs on the part of the legal profession stems from famous lawyer Clarence Darrow. If anyone can produce a quote, I would be grateful.
If you think about it, this judge is exemplifying a reasoning error due to lack of training applying research to practice. It is very difficult to apply group data to an individual because any one individual at any one point in time may not display all the characteristics of the group.
The message is clear. Judges and lawyers should stop rationalizing the leniency they extend to sociopaths. They should realize them for the dangerous, parasitic individuals they are. They should stop enabling them by forcing us to be with them. That “us” includes former spouses, children and society at large.
TB,
You know the drill:
GRAY ROCK, BE BORING.
That’s how to get rid of a P(arasite) that’s trying to latch on. They can’t stand boring.
show no signs of intelligent life, dress blandly, hunch your shoulders when they are around, yawn, fall asleep (snore), eat only porridge in their presence (or carrot sticks).
Thanks for posting your question though, looks like everyone needed a refresher.
Twice Betrayed,
How many times have we been taken in by the good looks and the seductive behavior. Do you really want to go back to spathyland? It wasn’t fun there, let me tell you cuz I’m still trying to get out of Oz.
Smoke and mirrors, even if he is a narcissist and not a spath, still evil and you deserve an honest man. I’ll settle for so-so looks if only I get flipping normal.
Let daughter see what George Clooney is all about. It would be interesting to see the outcome of that match, maybe they could both visit ex’s butt in Columbia and have a pirana party. Save yourself!
Yeah, you are all right, I know it! I know he’s an N and most likely a P too. Too bad, cause he’s so handsome. And that square jaw draws me like a magnet. Guess I’ll always be weak to this type, even when/if I make a hundred. *sigh I did tell him, he had too much of everything. As a friend said to me: sometimes the devil oversells us.
LOL butt in Columbia! LOVE it! tee, hee!
TB,
here is a little rhyme I just made up, re the intentions of this would be Romeo/Casanova.–His words here,–
“How easy this will prove to be,
I really didnt oughta,
Not only can I F— the Mum,
Ill also F— her daughter!!”
{and theyll never know what hit them!!]
Ps I cut open a lovely bright red apple yestarday, it was ROTTEN and black inside.How can you tell from the outside?Remind you of someone??
RUN RUN RUN EB!!!
Mama Gem.and HUGS XX
Sorry, that should read “RUN TB!!”
Mama gemXX
gemini: LOL! Great rhyme! And so true of a P!
Thanks so much! (((((hugs)))))
Thanks all! You are the best!
TB,– I speak from experience! Years ago, I had a brief affair,{between husbands LOL!} with a Narc/spath. he told me about this woman he used to f with, and admitted he only moved in with her to gain access to her teenage daughter, with whom he also had an affair while the Mum was at work, supporting them,LOL! and the girl was home from school. he told me he hada ‘thing ” about school gym slips{tunics} and even managed to persuade Mum to dress up as a schoolgirl when the daughter was unavailable!
Head for the hills, ya dont want to go there,!! been there, done that got the T shirt! A Spath is a spath is a spath, and remember, they NEVER EVER change! Im reading a great book at the moment I got 2nd hand from Amazon, its called
“Say Goodbye to your PDI.” {personality disordered Individual}, by Stan Kapuchinski, M.D.{For PDI, substitute path!} Im finding it very helpful, and recommend it to all LF ers.
Love, Mama GemXX
firebird,
That’s what I am figuring out, keep the emotion out of any discoveries that we make about the spath, kids included. My son handled the situation well. He gets sick of the stuff that his dad has put us through, having a heck of a lot more common sense than his father. I am thoroughly ripped that I married one of these people, really disrupting and creating some headaches in life. I like your take on creating a positive existence for ourselves despite what may come our way. That’s my goal. Take care and thanks for your comments.
gemini: You are correct on that regarding getting to the teen. I lived that one. My PX that I divorced two years ago lived this scene in my own home. He was ten years younger than me. I tried every way in the world to discourage him, but you know the story. We wound up marrying. My daughter was a young teen at the time. I found out after I walked out on this X, that they had a thing going on, while I was working supporting everyone. Seems he would come home at noon during the summer while my daughter was home. She was with several friends, but, apparently she sent them packing. This affair continued off/on for nearly 28 years. To tell the truth, I fear she still stays in contact with him, although she denies it. But, things that I have told her, have come back to me thru my daughter with this X. Only way my X could have known these things is my older daughter had told him…because I only told her this info. I did this several times [on purpose] to see if was so. [my older daughter/younger daughter are alienated]
Got awakened to texts from this guy this AM. I am ignoring all. He’s backing off. I posted some info on my FB page this AM regarding the Con Artist and things have really fallen silent. I will wait a little while for that to sink in, then will quietly remove him from my friends’ list. I’m doing fine, am glad I didn’t get sucked in! Thank you to all my friends offering me help, advice, comfort, care, understanding, info and of course, the Oxy skillet! 🙂 PS. Also took the Are You a Target quiz again. Scored a 29, of course. Most likely will always be a target. That’s why I have to watch myself. *Animals never give anyone the benefit of the doubt, they always move on their gut feelings.