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By | May 31, 2008 139 Comments

Fear: The gift sociopaths/psychopaths didn’t get by their third Christmas

If you read the stories of victims of sociopaths, many common themes are apparent. One of these is the victim complains that he/she is riddled with anxiety while the sociopath goes on with life effortlessly. From the point of view of a victim then, it is hard to see fear as a gift. Many say they wish the sociopath suffered some anxiety over the mess of their lives. The worst sociopaths (psychopaths) even go to prison multiple times, only viewing this fate as “an occupational hazard.”

Over the past 100 years, clinicians and scientists have written about the lack of fear in sociopaths. Many have speculated that lack of anxiety or fearlessness is one of the causes of sociopathy/psychopathy. In fact, one researcher was able to show that the level of anxiety shown by children in the first two years of life predicted conscience at age 6. Low fear kids had less of a conscience. In these low fear kids, only empathy predicts conscience.

If you are with me in raising a fearless child whose other parent is a sociopath, you have to understand this risk factor for the disorder. Fearless kids require specialized parenting that focuses on developing empathy to an advanced degree. They have to be super empathetic to make up for their deficit in guilt/anxiety/fear. Many writing on this blog have questioned whether empathy can be taught or fostered. There is much evidence that the development of empathy can be enhanced by the right parenting.

My son’s teachers have all described him as very caring and empathetic even without knowing that I wrote a book on that subject. So I can give testimony as to what helps fearless, at-risk kids have empathy and conscience through empathy. Many fearless kids, like my son are resistant to punishment. So the only hook you have with them is a loving relationship. You need a big hook too, because the same fearless kids are energetic and very impulsive, so they require a great deal of correcting. Their only motivation to learn to control their behavior is to have the approval of those they love. This is why the usual American parenting style, which does not foster close family relationships, produces sociopathy in fearless at risk kids.

Many parents who come to realize they are dealing with a fearless at-risk child, come to believe that “discipline” will fix the problem. They therefore seek out advice on how to do this effectively. They use all the techniques only to find out that they may work in the moment here and there but do very little to impact the fearless child’s behavior overall.

Also I should say that fearlessness and dominance behavior go hand in hand, so these kids are what most people call “strong-willed.” Many religious leaders have therefore said that it is important to “break the will” of strong-willed kids.

The problem with trying to break the will of an at-risk child and focusing on discipline, is that these do not instill what at risk children need to develop a conscience. These kids don’t need to be broken, they need to be fixed! The fix involves teaching them to love.

When teaching a child to love, it is important to remember that negative family experiences have a stronger weight in our minds that loving ones. The at-risk child responds to negative interactions, not with fear but with more dominance behavior. Psychologists have determined that in order to be of equal weight, our positive loving experiences have to out-weigh our conflicts by 5:1. So we have to experience 5 times more love than conflict in order for us to feel stable.

If you are with me raising at-risk kids you will immediately see the “Catch 22.” These kids need constant correcting because they are so impulsive. If they get a thought to do something, they do it instantly and they have a hard time terminating an unwanted behavior. So the usual parenting means 100 times more conflict than love for these kids. In a nut shell that is why many develop sociopathy. Study after study has shown that when normal loving parents adopt children with genetic risk (whose biologic parents are sociopaths), they turn negative and punitive toward the kids.

Without focused practice loving, the absence of guilt turns into a complete absence of conscience for at-risk kids. A person with guilt deficiency can have a conscience if he/she has empathy. Without either guilt or empathy you get a psychopath. (Also by the way some guilt with no empathy makes ____________ personality disorder? You fill in the blank.)

Ok now many of you are saying to yourselves, “I don’t buy this fearless, lack of anxiety crap. The sociopath I was with was neurotic as hell.” Although studies of groups of sociopaths show that within individuals the level of anxiety is negatively correlated with the level of sociopathy, it also turns out that the rates of phobias (other than social phobia) and anxiety disorders are NOT lower in sociopaths.

Scientists are presently very puzzled trying to reconcile all these observations. The evidence that fearlessness and lack of anxiety are causative in sociopathy is fairly strong. How do we explain then, phobias and anxiety in sociopaths and conduct disordered kids?

I can offer some explanation based on my reading and my own observations of sociopaths and their offspring. I think the critical question is WHEN the fear system develops in a child, if it does. I think that in many sociopaths, the fear system develops too late to impact their development in a positive way. So if a child develops fears after he/she has already developed a pattern of dominant, impulsive behavior, those fears do little to positively impact his personality development. Instead these fears lead a child to become even more aggressive in self defense.

Also realize that if a child’s fear system, which is supposed to develop by 2, doesn’t develop until 4 or 5, he/she is left without the tools to manage the fears. Children are supposed to use their loving relationships to cope with their fears. The at-risk child, at 5 already has a poor relationship with his/her caregivers because of the impulsive behavior. Who is the child supposed to turn to when afraid? The only thing that child can do is to focus on having interpersonal power. If he/she is powerful then he/she can’t be hurt. I encourage you to go and observe this for yourself this summer. Go to a local playground and observe the kids. You will see the dominant ones using fantasies of power to cope with their fears.

So as I have said before, sociopaths do not have the gift of fear. The way fear works in their lives never helps to keep them safe. Their experience of fear is aberrant; they suffer with it but that suffering does them no good. For sociopaths fear and anxiety are not connected to avoidance of stuff that gets them in trouble. For them fear and anxiety are connected to the opposite, fantasies of interpersonal power. Feeling anxious only makes them aggress more on others.

I am interested to hear your accounts of phobias, fears and anxiety in the sociopath you were involved with. Also if you have at-risk children please feel free to comment on how hard it is to parent them. This is one area where the observations of family members can contribute to our understanding of both sociopathy and how it develops.

For tools to help your at-risk child develop empathy and emotional intelligence visit The Parent’s Store.


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TrishNJ

Dear Dr. Leedom,

Both of the P’s in my life (My daughters father, and the con-artist) displayed serious signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.

The Father P was very abusive about his obsessions. It was a germ related obsession. He used to watch scarry movies almost every day. I couldn’t watch scarry movies at all. I felt as if he lived the fear of those scarry movies through me. He would say things to me that were not real and interestinly enough were from movies he had just watched. I used to fight back telling him he is watching too many scarry movies. He was obsessive about these movies. He had a sense of humor about it but than there was the abuse. I wonder…was he feeling fear or trying to feel fear with me. Did it validate him beating me. And he was a pathological liar. When we split…it was Christmas eve and of course there was an episode….but what was to come was an unbelieveable lie. He told his mother I was a hooker/drug addict. It came out at my parents house a few weeks after we split when he and his so called “cousin”….and his mother were visiting my daughter(she was a year old) and they came past her bed time….he never reguarded anyone else’s time….that was another issue! I had gone to the airport to pick up my brother who was flying in from Chicago. The so called cousin is now his wife! I called the house to see how everything was going…My mother said they had to wake my daughter up for the visit. I asked to speak to “him”….I just told him he had to come at a proper time. Right away he say’s “what! You don’t want my mother here anymore!” I couldn’t believe it….but I knew he was a liar….He was a great liar….in business….but at the time I didn’t see the harm in some of his lies. Those were to me innocent white lies….but not everyone can do that…but this time it was distructive and vicious…..Than his mother became angry and told my parents that I was nothing but a street whore drug addict…that her son saved! My parents tried to say that they knew that I would never had said such a thing to him about his mother and defended my credibility by saying that their daughter did not have time to do drugs she was spending the past 6 years in college as an A student….and she is noting you are saying! But the damage was done!

The Con-artist P was a clean picture perfect obsessive personality who obviously brought his obsessions into casino gambling! The first P was not as organized as he was concerned about Germs. With the second P everyting was lined up right down to the vaccume lines in his carpet which by the way I was only aloud to see a few times (his appartment). He would say he was not afraid of people. And he was brazen enough to say after he stole all my money…”if you go to the police I will hide all the money…you will get nothing!” And other times he would say “I will Kill you”….It was as though he wanted to keep me around for the thrill of the control. It was very difficult for me to break this. I had all the fear.

Both men claimed they were smarter than people….the first P used to say he was “God”….The second P went to church evey Sunday….and I think that he felt superior because of that! He said once that he made a pac with God. And God takes care of him. I think he felt in some way that my money was a gift to him! In the begining he said he prayed to God for a nice girl like me….but what he did is turn me into an angry girl and then after stealing all my assets he was able to justify getting rid of me because I was not nice anymore!

As far as raising children…I think everyone should raise their children to know what is socially expected of them….when I learned what a “crazy” guy my x was….I automatically knew I had to teach my daughter to be socially responsible. We always talked about her “unacceptable” behavior, My “unexceptable” behavior and others “unacceptable” behavior. I have always had a potty mouth that comes out once in a while….my daughter does not. I knew my mouth came from my father having that mouth! It’s an Irish thing! But I didn’t want my daughter to have it so I talked about it with her….and she was aloud to correct me when it came out…and I would appologise. It got better but I still can have a potty mouth when I am angry! We talked about bad behavior and what the effects are on society. We talked about a loving community, about healing the world. About becoming a positive influence on people and society. I talked alot about how demeaning it was to become a liar. That it is very manipulative…and the affects can be devistating. But I was learning as I was going along….because my parents never taught me these things. Good thing for self help books.

I always wonder if some of that stuff stayed with her because now she lives with her dad….and she has turned away from me completely. It was two years ago when I saw her last. She came to visit and I threw her a huge graduation party. I remember that I had broke my prescription glasses at the house. She wanted to stay a little longer….and she had to call her dad….she was laughing about me breaking my glasses to him….and she basically told him she wanted to spend more time with her friends….I asked her why she did that. She said she knew if she made fun of me and let him think she wasn’t there for me….that he might let her stay! I said that’s fine now but it’s not right….and I explained how much that hurt me!

I wonder what will come of her future….she has different personalities for different people….it worries me….so much that I told her last that I would only develope a relationship with her again if we went to therapy first. This has been a most difficult life for me and my family.

Dr. Leedom,
First, the xs never seemed afraid of anything. Even when he really, really should have been. Anger was more likely displayed… but it seemed to be annoyance based and not fear based. (In other words, he was pissed off that he was being inconvenienced and not afraid he’d finally been caught, yet again.)

The xs RARELY showed any emotion…at least, any emotion that had any feeling of being genuine. He sometimes would voice the “right” emotions, but he never looked like he was FEELING it. There were lots stories around town of his capacity for violence (and other things)- he didn’t display that at home, with me, so OF COURSE I didn’t believe those stories! He knew I wouldn’t put up with physical abuse- I had left my first husband because of physical and verbal abuse. SO, he emotionally abused me…lol. He NEVER displayed fear, regret, guilt, remorse. Only occasionally, during the last few mos we were “together” did I see the disgust, anger, and repulsion cast at me. Those looks were so dark, so intense…and, for once, felt REAL. All the times I’d questioned whether he loved me or not were answered. No. Not at all. In fact, the opposite: he despised me.

He said he loathed homosexuals, needles, and people who act like victims. I suppose it must be very annoying to have the people you victimize actually complain about you victimizing them. The nerve! I wonder if he had homosexual tendencies- nothing I ever saw. But that is no barometer. Needles, I am guessing, had to do with exposing his drug usage…which I’ve learned was pretty constant. That would explain where SOME of the money went. He shaved all visible hair off before he went to prison in April…presumably to cover up his drug usage. (I didn’t ask if he shaved the NON-visible hair…lol).

I have 2 little boys from the “marriage” to the xs. My 8yo seems empathetic and conscientious. He is not a discipline problem at school (he does get marks for talking too much on occasion- but that probably came from my gene pool.) Interestingly enough, he didn’t see his father for 3 mos after he was first charged. The judge ordered visitation after that- he had problems (briefly and nothing really bad) at school and at home. I thought it was the “change” in his routine. When the visitations stopped, I expected another round of angry outbursts, short temper, and some defiance. But, there was nothing; he actually seemed relieved. I think that once I wasn’t around to buffer the aggression and hurtful behaviour of the xs, the boy differentiated his treatment between mom and dad. At least, that is what I garnered from the conversations I’ve had with him. (I was onsite/present for the supervised visitations, but I did not interfere. It seemed like the xs was doing a fine job of alienating his 8yo son on his own. It was kind of a weaning process.)

The xs had pretty much isolated us from my family. We SAW them semi-regularly, but you know how it is when you’re with a sociopath…on the outside, everything looks okey dokey and you NEVER talk about what is really underneath that plastic smile plastered on your face.

Now? My children and I are very close to my parents and my sisters. Realizing that the boys are at-risk, we are especially careful and loving with them. You could say we have rallied around them. (And my daughter too- the victim he went to prison for- but that’s another story.) Some of the non-fogged out family members of the xs say that my 8yo is nothing like his father at this age. Apparently the xs was already miserable to be around by the time he was 5 or 6…which goes along with what you’re saying, Doc.

My other son just turned 2. I threw the xs out when he was 4mos old, and because of the sex abuse allegations, he’d only had limited time with the baby prior to that. From 7mos to 23mos, the xs only saw the children for 2hrs one weekday night and 2hrs 1 Sat per month. He didn’t show up for a several. I don’t believe he would have shown up for as many as he did except that that was the only way his mother got to see the boys. And he needed her to keep funding his lifestyle. So he showed up to keep the money flowing. I never should have agreed to allow her to be the supervisor for visitation- I didn’t realize HER part in his drama until much later. One of the eye-openings for me was that the woman brought her husbands 12yo granddaughter to supervised visitations with her son, who was accused of raping a 12-15 yo girl. The girl had NO reason to be there, she brought her along anyway. I guess she figured if he didn’t rape her right there in the playland at McDonald’s that he was innocent. I do not allow her any contact with my children now that he is in prison and visitations are over. Why would I? She has a lying/cheating/thieving/pedophile for a son and an alcoholic/gambling addicted/bartending whore for a daughter who engages in pyramid schemes and illegal gambling in addition to the casinos. Neither of her children are even remotely self-sufficient, much less successful. Perhaps she’d like to enable my boys into an ax-murderer and a serial killer? Good grief. She is also Anti-My daughter. She blames her for this “terrible misunderstanding.” (vomit). I do not allow anyone around my children that doesn’t understand that the 4 of us are a family, a package deal. All or us or none of us. Period.

From what I gathered from his family over the years, both the xs’s bio father and adopted father were sociopaths. His family is hell-bent on making monsters. How sad/sick is that?

So far, parenting my at-risk children has involved more worrying about it than anything. I’ve had the 8yo evaluated by 2 different psychologists at different stages of this nightmare. So far, so good. And I’m good at worrying- I’ll take it in exchange for perhaps there really being nothing in my boys to worry about. I hope. I’m not dating, so I don’t have any emotional distractions to take me away from them and my family is highly involved. We are committed to helping these little boys grow up to be good men. I hope and pray the cycle ends with the xs.

Fran

My ex showed fear of dying. In the court documents that our family counselor submitted to the court, she said that my ex’s father died working at the same occupation my ex does now. My ex was four when he died. The counselor said my ex showed fear of dying because of this.

Fran

In that report I mention above, the counselor also said that my ex reported that he was an unruly child and that his mother often had to call his grandfather to come over to help discipline. He reported that the grandfather would physically have to sit on him to get him under control.

eyesopened

The S with whom I was involved was very proficient at a risky sport and liked to show off by making it even riskier…sort of a like a child might by riding his bike without hands. So, fear for him was a thrill, it quickened his emotions, and by adding that extra dollop of fear, he was pushing himself to the emotional limit and becoming the darling of the sport.

In passing once, he mentioned that he had studied the course intently beforehand – maybe he had even visualized himself doing it – and figured out the riskiest part ahead of time. Perhaps that fear or self-preservation set in later as you point out.

Taking calculated risks seemed to carry over to his personal life where I think he calculated many risky moves he made with people close to him – or people he wanted to get close to – when not caught up emotionally. Under emotional conflict, all bets were off – he would just jump.

The one fear he did express was of losing all his money, becoming homeless and sitting on a curb with some passed-out woman with smeared mascara. Maybe he was visualizing that, too. He did seem to dance on the edge of self-destruction.

Ox Drover

Having raised two biiological sons, and having no doubt that both sides of my family are riddled with psychopaths, and that my son’s grandfather from the other side is a psychopath, here goes.

Son C, was born very hyperactive—before he went to school I just knew he was “into everything” and him being my only chld I didn’t have a lot to compare him with. He was very bright, that was apparent, but “bright” is the norm in my family so again, nothing too out of the ordinary. He was speaking in sentences before age 2, and doing things that other kids his age weren’t. He wasn’t difficult to “control” and responded well to correction of “don’t touch” or “don’t do that” he was not mean to other children or to pets. He just required an “eye on him” to keep him from geting hurt climbing on things.

My second son, P, was born when the first son was 17 months old. He was a different from the first from the start. He didn’t have the hyperactivity, and was a fussy baby for the first 6 weeks, but after that, cried seldom, smiled a great deal—his development was slowed by a surgery he had at five months, which after that his motor skills regressed and he didn’t sit up or walk much, but at age 11 months he just sat up, stood up and walked, all, it seemed in a very short time.

My older son C “sort of owned” “the baby” and seemed to really care for him. He would “interpret” what the baby was “saying” to the point that they almost developed a “twin language” with the baby babbling something and the older son telling us what it meant. We thoguht for a wile that the baby was actually slow with language. At age three he said very little, and his brother still interpreted. Then one day my mother gave the baby 3 cookies and set him at the bar while she was doing something andhe said “One, two, three” she was amazed, here was a kid that couldn’t say much more than Mama and da da, and he was counting—she gave him more cookies and he counted to 20, only missing one number. After that day, he talked freely in “English” instead of the “twin language” which gradually faded away.

The older chld C was the more dominant with the younger child P being the submissive one and that went on until at age 5-6 they went to separate kindergardens and the younger child seemed to “blossom” out from under the influence of his older brother. He became very anxious to please adults by good behavior.

He was so neat and clean and careful not to spill his milk, like his hyperactive brother, that we used to laugh and call him “little Peter Perfect” because when his brother would invariably spill his milk at dinner, he would say “I didn’t spill MY milk”

Later, the dominance seemed to reverse and the younger child who had caught up with the older one in size, started to become the more dominant of the two, and they started to scrap physically. I learned though, that even though the older child might be the one to strike th first blow, the younger one had “provoked” him unmercifully for quite some time before the first blow was struck.

I stopped this by explaining to them that neither the “provoking” behavior or the striking behavior was acceptable and that in the future if they went to blows that BOTH boys would be punished. I thought it never would stop, but one day heard them (can’t remember which one said it) but “If you do that again, I will hit you and we will both be in trouble.” It seemed after that that they stopped the scrapping.

The younger boy developed very socially and was popular with both kids and teachers. The older boy, due to his hyperactivity was not as popular with the other kids as his brother, but was cooperative with the teachers and did well in school. He was well advanced in his math, reading and English over others his age. The younger child was also very gifted and scored well and made good grades.

It wasn’t until age 9 and 10 when I was divorced that I had any problems with either kid really other than the fact that I had to watch that the hyperactive older son didn’t physically hurt himself climbing–he had no fear of heights or water and swam well and would without supervision have jumped off a cliff into the ocean! LOL

After my divorce (sudden, unexpected, and another story) the older child literally cried uncontrollably for two years, the younger child became quietly enraged at his father (who had been quite close I thought to both boys, spending a lot of time with them) and angry, vs. his brothers crushed heart.

My explination to them about their dad’s disappearance and failure to even contact them or me was that he was “mentally ill, and you can’t quit loving him even when he acts this way, because his illness is like an appendix problem makkes your belly hurt, and his kind of illness makes his mind hurt and not work right.”

My older son was so stressed by the divorce that he literally quit growing–failure to thrive syndrome–the younger son kept on growing and maturing and became the larger, more physically mature child very quickly over the next few years.

I had put the older child into a “home schooling” situation because he was not doing well in public school at the time. He did well in a small enviornment with that type of schooling and had many friends in the neighborhood to play with, and did well with them and with his brother.

At age 11 though, the younger child displayed what I now see as Psychopathic behavior. He stole money and an uncashed check from my purse and “traded” it with another kid for a radio (Walkman) which he wanted and I couldn’t afford. When questioned about it, he said the other kid loaned it to him. A few days later, though, the parents of the other kid called me and came over with their son, the uncashed check and a $20 bill and we all sat down together—even in the face of total evidence of what he had done, my son remained stoic and denied, denied, denied, or said nothing. That night, he ran away from home.

AFter turing out the entire county to search for him, he was found several miles from home, and was still stoic and unrepentant. Definat. He looked me in the eye and said “You can’t watch me 24 hours a day, I will do it again.” He had the same hard look in his eyes then that I have seen in his eyes since. The same LOOK that my psychopathic father displayed when he was enraged.

I took him out of public school at that point, and borrowed the money to put him into a private school, sent him to live with my retired parents during the week (about 11 miles away) so he could catch a ride to the school 20 miles away from there with a teacher who lived a few doors down from my parents. So he essentially had 24 hour supervision at that point. My step father spent a great amount of time with him and he seemed to flourish under this attention, the new school, which challenged him more in his learning, and when I finished my advanced degree, we picked up and moved and I saw no more problems out of him until he hit puberty. He interacted well with his peers, his brother, adults, teachers, and got along well in school (still a private school, but one he shared with his brother now). I couldn’t have asked for a more responsible and pleasant young son. Both boys were doing great, I thought.

When he hit puberty however, he took to open definance and to sneaking around when I slept or was at work. It was totally sudden it seemed to me. The boys were doing great and I had sent them for the summer up to my parents to visit and for my step dad to teach them to drive (he had been a driving instructor in a high school) and when they came back, my younger son, the one who would eventually go to prison for murder, was NOT the same cooperative kid I had sent off to my parents’ two months before. He was totally dominant over his older brother, he was a liar, he dropped his “good” friends like hot potatoes and started hanging out with thugs from the neighborhood. I had NO control over his behavior and he lied continually. Things went down hill from there until by age 16 he was stealing, and God knows what all. By 17 he had been arrested several times. By 18 he was in prison for a 5 yrs sentence, did 2, got out and got right back into crime and 5 months later went to prison for murder. DENY DENY DENY his crimes. He did, over the years, though, teach himself to fake “repentence” and “religion” and get what he wanted–commissary money–from us. Visits and books, money for the craft shop, etc.

He actually brags (I have a letter he wrote to a x-convict friend) about how MUCH MORE HORRIBLE his crime of murder was than even the cops know about, and he said those same words to me and his adopted brother. (My third and youngest son) He has NO remorse, and is capable of anything in the way of coniving and lies to get what he wants. He harbors rage for any “slight” to his “rights” of absolute control over everyone in his family.

His hyperactive older brother is a caring and kind man who would give the shirt off his back to anyone who asked for it. He is successfully employed and a hard worker. Unfortunately, he is also somewhat of an enabler, and married a personality disordered woman, but last summer after her affair and attempt on his life–she and her BF went to jail/prison and he divorced her. He is in the midst of healing, but now recognizes his brother’s psychopathic mind set, the enabling behaviors of his grandmother, myself, and himself. He is also on the healing path, as his adopted brother and I are…and I am very proud of him. We are all NC with his P-brother in prison, and have limited if any contact with my mother who is so deeply into the toxic enabling of my P-son in prison and at her advanced age isn’t likely to change. My son C comes to this site from time to time to lurk and read and learn, and like us all, it will take him some time to fully process the havoc caused by the personality disordered people in our lives. He like us all, feels USED, but I think the lessons we have all learned from this is that we won’t be used again…we will not tolerate that kind of behavior.

I’m not sure what if anything I would have done differently in raising my “at risk” child with the genetic and metal make up of my psychopathic biological father. While my “fearless” hyperactive son had and has a wonderful loving heart, my quiet, calm and “sweet” younger son was the one who turned out to be the soul defecient monster without a conscience. Go figure!

James

Not sure but maybe the “gift of fear” is really the “gift of a smear campaign”. This Campaign is play out over and over again with the people they “hurt”. In fact I have seen that sociopaths put so much time and effort into it. They get others (family members, friends) people to help them. Why? So many times have they told us that we mean nothing to them! But still they will spend consisteable time in this smear campaign. May I also add the over the 2 years involved in research and taking with other members. Not one, no not one got away from this “smear campaign”! When we try over and over again (after the breakup) to just walk away. Telling them we don’t care anymore and just want peace. Please don’t call; please just leave us along. Boom! It’s like no way!! So what do we have to do. Move; change our contact information and then wait to see what happens next. Personally for me, I had to move more then once. Change my phone numbers including my cell numbers. Thank God, she has trouble remembering email addresses (one which she even set up one for one of my sons). God, the last letter she mailed to my sons, she gave her email address. Her phone number (this was back in July 2007) wanting them to contact her! No contact was made! No contact will be made. We have been in NC now for two years readers, two years! Now that would tell a normal person something, right? Believe me, if she had a phone number. She would call. If she have an email address, she would write. Why in God’s name would I want any contact with this person after (learned about this after she left) her “smear campaign”? What was it?

I beat her. [There is no record of any domestic violence and they never was any domestic violence in my home] [Yes, there were verbal exchange and some very bad ones]

I am a alcoholic [Yes, I did drink a lot when this person was with us. But today, barely drink at all, which did surprise me]

These are the only two that I know about for a fact, but I am sure there is more..

James

As for my two older boys. None of them show any sociopathic traits.

Ages from 14 to 17 years of age

Either child got into trouble at school.
Never been arrested or in trouble with the law
Either child uses drugs or even show an interest in that
Both are polite, honest children.
I have never received a negative reply from any person regarding my children behavior.

So, who does “carry” this gene (anti-social) when it comes to children? The male or female or both? Both see what their mother has done and is doing as “wrong”. In fact my oldest stated that she doesn’t deserve the title “mother” and now either refer to her as a mother. They call her by her first name only…

bird

My ex sociopath never discussed fears, phobias or anxieties with me. He was the calmest person I have ever met. I did see him get angry easily and suddenly though. He also suffered from paranoia, mostly in the form of conspiracy theories.

The sociopaths baby is not born yet. Thus far the baby has been really active in womb. He was in womb when I experienced the sociopathic trama (as many of the sociopathic babies are), and I hope the stress didn’t effect him. The main reason I kicked the sociopath out is because I couldn’t protect my baby while he was in the house. The chaos he created, was causing me way too much stress. Since he has left, I haven’t cried like I did with him here and my stress has greatly reduced. Hopefully the little baby will be ok. And, hopefully he didn’t inherit the gene!

inthebreach57

FEAR is exactly what my P husband fed to my little boy since infancy! He started terrorizing my son by throwing screaming fits, snatching my baby up and running through the house ear piercing screams like someone from an insane asylum(like what they portray in movies). Around the time my son turned 2 he ( my husband) asked for a playstation2. He had never been interested in video games before but this did not register with me as a red flag or unusual until it was too late. He started by taking my son into the computer room and closing the door to play games. The first games I bought were Mario Bros. and flight simulator game. These were not being played behind closed doors and in fact once he got my son started on the violence videos he would leave the room and the boy would be by himself playing them. Once I discovered this I threw all the bad videos out only to find he would slowly replace them over and over. My son would hide it from me too. One of the games that was really upsetting and kept getting replaced was Duke Nukem. It was a military type guy who was murdering pole dancers (female strippers). This game kept turning up until my son was about 6. I also found horror/slasher movies. I didn’t realize my son could watch movies on the playstation until I started finding the stashed movies and my son told me he was watching them on it. Any game that had murder, demeaning women and children..this man was feeding to my son. When I would find the videos/ movies and pitch them, he would take my son to arcades to keep the violence going. My son has not slept in his own bed since he was 2 and sleeps in my bed. This became a huge point of contention with my husband and he loved to tell it to our various marriage counselors. Though my husband has not shared a bedroom with me for 13 years, he enjoyed scaring the crap out of my son, then bitching about him sleeping in my bed (the catch 22). When my son was 6 my husband began throwing gender confusing games and movies into the mix. My son told me that he was telling him all his friends were homosexual and there is nothing wrong with it, that women are evil and will take all of your money and things. My husband never showed any real interest in my son other than loading him up with games, toys, movies and then slamming his bedroom door in the boys face. My husband spent his time at home in his bedroom and would barely speak to us. On Sat. or a Sun. he would take my son in the car and disappear for hours and always return loaded with toys. That is the times he would talk to my son, when he had him alone but the messages he was giving him were destructive and wicked and there was no one around to counter what he was telling the little boy. Even as I write this it makes me sick to my stomach. There is so much more to tell but I may never know all that he was doing, saying and the damage he has done to my son. I am angry and I admit I do wish him a hot seat in hell.

Inthebreach,

Wow…those are horrible, terrifying, foul, evil experiences you expressed. True, how sickening!

I am so very sorry for you and your situation with your beautiful son.

Are you still in contact with your P husband?

Beverly

Inthebreach57 – what a nasty man – stimulating hatred in a child, using him as a surrogate, the innocent to playact pain – what a disgrace.

Beverly

Inthebreach57. Sometimes, people who have suffered abuse and evil as children go on to change the world, because of the evil they suffered. They go onto to challenge the evil and they have the experience to do it.

inthebreach57

Dear Janesmith and Beverly,
What I wrote in my post is only a fraction of what has happened and he is continuing to try to sift my son. We are at about 18 months into this divorce and nothing has been settled except I am greatful that the judge may be seeing some disturbing patterns and has given my son the right to say no to visitation with my husband. This is a major victory for my son being given the opportunity to say no to this man. It is driving the P to a frenzy of frustration to lose that power and control over my son and I. My son turned him down again today and the P texted a picture of the cat my son rescued last Christmas and he is keeping at his apartment. My son worries about this animal because it was very sweet when we found it and kept it for a week. Just loved my boy. A couple months ago was the last time the P had my son at his apartment and when my son bent down to pet the kitty it attacked him, leaving scratch marks on his face and scalp. My son was heart broken and asked if I thought the P was being mean to his cat. Very insightful for a 9 year old but I suspect also a typical assumption based upon his own experiences with the P. I told my son that yes I believe he has treated the cat badly and my son said that when he spent time with P in the past he would knock the cat off him if it jumped in his lap to be petted. Maybe the cat is becoming feral from neglect and rejection or maybe he tortures and teases it to make it mean. Who can know but the cat doesn’t behave the same. I have two dogs. One would be ok with the cat, the other would not, so I have a dilemma on how to get the cat from him so my son doesn’t suffer and worry over it. Texting the picture of the cat to my son could mean any number of things from a threat to the well being of the cat to simply a lure to get my son to go with him.
The P refuses to have dialogue with me. He only calls my son on his cell phone or texts him. The judge also ordered he communicate with me any plans made with my son and he is to keep his and my sons cell phone on at all times (which he has steadfastly and consistantly refused to do). He immediately turns both cells off when alone with my son and shows up hours later with him than he is supposed to. It always makes me frantic. He is an attorney and has shown me time and again that he is not going to play by any rules but his own, above the law, beyond the law, what have you.
His demeanor is quite odd in that he walks around a bit hunched over as if he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. He wears a beard and mustache and in the 14 years we have been married he would never shave. I never saw him clean shaven, though I asked many times if he would. He really has a very harmless, fragile, Marvin Milqtoast look about him but the public has not heard that screeching, earpiercing scream. Nor have they seen the thousand mile stare and demonic grin that stops you dead in your tracks and gives you a feeling of dizziness and disorientation while the hair stands up on the back of your neck..you know something really evil is coming your way or he has already done something and you are waiting for the backlash to come. I cannot second guess the P or ever try to predict his next move in order to dodge or prepare. I cannot wrap my mind around it and am always shocked and stunned at the things he does. My brother committed suicide 4 years ago. He called my home several days earlier asking me to send him money to go buy heroin. We talked a long time and he promised to speak to his Dr. about medication and go speak to the priest also. Then he called my home and I was at the grocery store. The P took the call and told me later my brother was fine, they had a nice long talk and he told my brother he loved him. I accused him of lying because he hated my brother calling and he certainly isn’t one to tell ANYONE he loves them and especially my brother. Within 24 hours the police were knocking on my door telling me Brian had died from a heroin overdose. The P knew Brian had asked me to send him money several days earlier and I said I would not do that. I will go to my own grave wondering how my brother got the money, if the P wired it to him. My knees buckled and I fell to the ground when the officer told me my brother was dead. I was sobbing, trying to catch my breath. The P was standing several feet away from me and looking at me blankly. No expression, just observing my pain and then calmly went back to his bedroom and crawled back into bed. The next morning he commented on how well he had slept and how refreshed he felt before he walked out the door for work. I was so enraged and outraged that I wished it had been him that died.
After 14 years of marriage I am just getting to know my sister inlaw (his deceased brothers wife). I was not allowed to get to know her and his mother and he made it clear that she was persona non grata. One month before the P and I were married HIS brother also committed suicide. I was warned that the brothers wife was crazy and this is why his brother killed himself. Well, we have been talking the past 18 months and she is anything but crazy. I have learned much about my P and his history from age 7 up. She and the P’s brother grew up together, therefore she knows my P’s life story. The P was also the last person to talk to his depressed brother who was having financial problems and hurting from the damage and separation the P had caused between his parents and brother 10 years earlier. The P’s mother was also instrumental in keeping the family rift going and the P fed it. This P has a trail of bodies behind him. I want to know what he said to his brother and mine to push them over the edge in their depression. I spent 7 years in depression and he talked to me about suicide often. As depressed as I was I was not about to check out and leave my son and two grown daughters behind. He miscalculated with me because I rallied up out of bed and boy was I pissed when I started connecting the dots. I invited him to leave in January 2007 after my son told me he had locked him in the trunk of his car 5 times. He terrorized my little boy. Now, I want to terrorize him. He is very fearful of his own hide and his personal comfort level. He is fearful of insanity because he accuses so many people of being crazy. I have been studying him like he studied me. Whatever level of discomfort I can send his way will never compare to the damage he has done to my loved ones and myself..and his original family. You can never win with a P but I believe if you dig in and oppose them on every level eventually they will tire and move on to the next prey (God help them). At least I am hoping for this.
My last part of this post will probably shock some people but I have to ask this question. Does ANYONE out there know if there is any information on basic profile of the behaviors of men involved with NAMBLA and how they recruit little boys? I would much like to compare his behaviors towards my little boy and my son believes he did something to him a couple days before his 9th birthday. He has vague memories of him feeding him funny tasting chocolate milk and he couldn’t keep his eyes opened after that and fell into a deep sleep. Said he woke up in the P’s bed and was very sick. He said the P was standing beside the bed when he woke up and he vomitted. The P began screaming at him, “how dare you puke”. He later said he wasn’t sure if it was P standing at the foot of the bed at first or someone else, but definitely knew the P was beside the bed when he was groggy and puked. My son said he didn’t feel like a little boy anymore..very disturbing! The P dumped him off at my house at 6:00am. Furious that jake was sick. My son would not speak to me for two days or look me in the eye. He took 5 baths the first day and 3 the next. Getting my son to take a bath is a chore so I found his behavior very upsetting. Calling DCFS was not an option because P as an attorney was guardian ad litum for several years and had long ago informed me he has the power people in his pocket and they would just give my son to him if I filed a complaint. He also threatened to blame my brother if any accusations were made because my brother was here visiting. The P came within an inch of losing his life when I told my brother this. Diffusing that was not easy and a P isn’t worth losing your freedom and salvation over. So, here is a fraction of what is going on in our lives. 18 months into this divorce and no end in sight yet. Would someone pray out there for all of us here. I know I will.

Beverly

Inthebreach57. OMG, What a story. I am feeling very wary of your ex husband P and what potentially he is doing to your son – it sounds like he is acting out and making your son pay for his OWN pain and abuse and of course, we never really know what they are thinking and how they let themselves off the hook in their own heads for their behaviour. I am going to have to read your post again and I will definately pray for you and your son for a painless release from this P.

Beverly

Dear Inthebreach57. I read your detailed post and it contains so many clues. You do not say whether your grown up daughters are with him, or another partner, but I assume they are not living at home. I think from what you have said it sounds as though your son was locked in the trunk, because he was taken somewhere, so that your son couldnt see where he was being taken – I fear that your son was abused physically, not just then, but the time he was fed a drugged drink. When you talked about the text picture of the cat, it reminded me of a story here in the UK of a child molestor who was driving in a van with a little puppy that he had broken its legs and he stopped and said to a child, I am wanting to take this puppy to the vet, would you get in the van and hold the puppy whilst I drive to the vet. The P is clearly using the text pictures to try and lure your son back in. Because of the situation your brother was in, I believe the P exploited that situation to his sardonic satisfaction. Sickening and the rage and hurt you must be feeling – well I cant imagine.

In view of what you have said, I would make steps legally or otherwise to ensure that the P has no contact with your son by cell phone or any other way. The P sounds like a sick evil man. I will pray for you and your son.

Beverly

Dear Inthebreach57. My exN had a beautiful cat he had from a kitten. When I first saw the cat, he was a beautiful teenage tabby, with beautiful markings and when the N was at my place, the cat would walk over to mine and wander into my home and nestle on my long fluffy carpet upstairs – he was happy and I was happy because I wanted to give them both a home. But when I watched his interaction with the cat, although it was fed regularly, it looked very insecure and submissive – which was very sad for me, because it appears that he had mentally beat the cat into submission against the nature of a fine young male cat. In his presence, he would scoop up the cat and pet it, but I could see that the cat was annoyed and couldnt wait to get away. I watched the cat alot and it looked frightened of him, but tied to him somehow. It would also lay on its back alot and expose its belly to him, and other behaviours in a submissive pose, and the N would get satisfaction that he was master over the cat. Its sickening how they want to use and control animals for their own ego satisfaction.

inthebreach57

Beverly and JaneSmith,
To clear up the question of my two daughters, they are 23 and 29 years old. The oldest, whom the p helped her pay for a divorce from her husband in January, has been living with her new boyfriend since about a month after she left her husband. I am a bit suspicious of her timeline with the new man who just happened to be the captain of the swat team her ex is in. Of course they knew one another and I was told by my daughter the new boyfriends ex wife was very upset to find my girl was seeing her ex husband because she considered Jill her friend. The new boyfriend had only been divorced 5(?) months when my daughter moved in with him. She didn’t spend a full month here when she left her husband- at least wasn’t sleeping here every night, then she was living with him. My daughter began saying terrible things about her boyfriends ex and is from what I can tell quite jealous of this womans children. I believe he was caring and loving towards his ex’s children and before he divorced his wife they had a baby but it only lived a few hours. Often when people lose a child they end up divorcing but I did hear their divorce was not acrimonious and they remained friends…until my daughter came into the picture. I don’t understand her animosity towards this woman and her children. I am guessing most of the men and women on this site would agree that whether it be stepchildren, grandchildren, adopted or what have you; the more children there is to love, the merrier! So, that is my 29 year old. My 23 year old lives about 4 miles from me and knows exactly who my p is. They hate one another and she has witnessed him in action many times, but she badly wants her big sisters approval and to be included in her circle. She had the choice between her little brother and joining forces with big sister who constantly gets her palms greased with money from my p. I have a feeling that the p may have signed for my younger daughter to get a car…that is the rumor. She has bad credit and her car was about to die on her. It is a shame to see what is happening with my children and it feels like all out demonic attack. I am having a hard time accepting what my daughters are doing for $. If I had to guess an ultimate goal in the p using my daughters it would be to bring them into court during the custody battle. As I said in a different thread the therapist who did my son, the p’s and my psych exam made it clear that these two girls don’t count in this custody case. That is comforting but I wasn’t worried anyway because my attorney, family, friends and the p’s family would, sadly leave these girls sorry they accepted money from the p to testify on his behalf against their little brother.
Girls, it’s going to be a long, long time before or if these girls will be invited back in our lives. Even then I will never feel the same or look at them the same again. It will probably give the p many years of pleasure pondering the damage he has done with my children but a bit of foresight occurred to me recently. These girls won’t stay in the p’s life and he will have no real use for them after this divorce and custody are settled, so they will all collectively drop one another like a dirty towel soon enough. Moving past the hurt from my girls I am entering a stage of anger. You see, the p has no children, is ghoulishly waiting for his 98 year old mother to die to inherit a couple hundred thousand dollars which he will promptly gamble away. He just turned 59 and staring at senior citizen status, has diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol and prostate problems. Somehow I just don’t see my daughters or anyone caretaking him if he gets sick or too old to care for himself. Afterall, if they could sell their own brother and mother out for a few bucks they won’t be rallying around him when he becomes a burden. Seems only logical to me if that is to be their base nature.
On the subject of the kitty. We are asking for him in the divorce as this is my sons pet that he rescued. We will find a way and place for kitty in our home.
The forensic therapist is working on issues with my son about his stepfather. She too believes he was drugging him so he couldn’t tell on him. He is too much of a coward to do something identifiably nefarious. My son isn’t nearly as intimidated by him as he used to be because he doesn’t have to see him if he doesn’t want to. I see improvements but we still have a long road to recovery and damage control.
Thank you for the prayers for Jacob and I. I can really feel the difference. I am feeling stronger, starting to laugh a little at silly things someone might say and Jake is sarting to feel happier and more secure too. I know we will have days that are setbacks but they are getting less. Also, thank you for loving support and empathy and we are sending out prayers to all of the people here too. God will out.

Ox Drover

Dear Inthebreach,

My dear I am praying continually for you and your Jacob. You sound like a gutsy and strong woman with a burden that would stagger a camel, hiding behind a sand dune, with “bad guys” on all sides shooting at you and yet, you remain strong! Good for you. Protecting your son and yourself should be, as it is, your prime objective. I know it is disappointing to have your daughters not be there for you and their little brother, but let me give you a bit of home.

My youngest son is a Psychopath. My oldest son C “sided” with him in the attack on me last year (not knowing that the purpose of the attack was to have me murdered for an inheritence) because my son C has always sought his brother’s approval, and also because C didn’t understand what a psychopath really was, or that his brother was truly a psychopath. My whole family, except for my adopted son D was against me, thinking me crazy for “plotting” against the P-son and for cutting him out of my estate.

Fortunately, due to a long list of circumstances that there is no need to go into, I intuited the plot and literally ran for my life, leaving behind all my family except son D. About two months after I fled, the plot blew up when I was “missing” and it coudln’t be completed with my death “by suicide.”

My son C’s wife and her BF-P, who was a friend of my P-sons who is in prison for murder, and had been sent into our family like a Trojan Horse were arrested after an attempt on my son C’s life. Believe me, son C NOW GETS IT, and has totally realized how he was also conned. That mom is NOT crazy or a paranoid nut cake, and that his P-brother is a monster.

Your daughters may yet come around. Right now they are being conned as well, and lured with visions of “fantasy” happiness. My son C was lured with the fantasy of approval from his brother and from his grandmother (my mother). He was caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. His love for me, which I know is real, his confusion and his love for his wife, his grandmother and his brother. If he had believed me and disbelieved them, he would have had to cast off his entire family except me and his adopted brother D and at the time, he couldn’t bring himself to do that, it was too painful, and at that tiem there was no CONCRETE evidence.

I guess, what I am saying is that possibly your daughters will come round to see the truth. I know it hurts that they don’t right now, and it hurt me deeply when son C didn’t believe me, it hurt horribly when my mother didn’t believe me. But it immediately healed the wound when son C put his arms around me and cried, weeping from the bottom of his soul, “Mom, I am so sorry I didn’t believe you, please forgive me.” I can tell you, that was the most sincere apology I have ever received and I instantly and completely forgave my son, and welcomed him back into my life. Just as the father of the prodigal son was over joyed to see his son return home, repentent and much wiser. If I’d have had a “fatted calf” I would surely have killed it.

I am glad that your son is given the option to not see the P. And I agree with you (as a medical professional with some experience in child molestation) I think your suspicions may be right on. I am glad that your son is seeing a good therapist and can help him work through this.

As for the cat, I hope you can get it before he kills it or worse.

Dr. Anna Salter, Ph.D is THE expert on child molestation. She has several books published. I have a copy of one of them, but can’t locate it at the moment, but I am sure you can google her name and find her works. I would recommend that you get her books and then possibly contact her.

Prayers for your and Jacob’s safety and healing, and for justice. (((hugs))))

Good night nurse, Inthebreach!

That is a most horrific nightmare landscape you are living in. But as Oxy so eloquently stated, you are more powerful and immensely stronger than the psycho.

Please don’t be offended by this statement because it has no direct reflection upon you whatsoever, but what a piece of filth he is! Your posts have really pissed me off for you and your precious son’s dire situation.

Yeah, psychos are sneaky, dirty, lying, malevolent forces for evil and it seems that you unfortunately have encountered one of the sicker, twisted ones.

Do what you gotta do to get away from him. You’re an extremely intelligent, clever, capable woman and I have no doubts you will prevail against such insidious evil as this creature has inflicted upon you and your family.

Stay in touch with LF informing us of new developments in this sordid saga that your loving and precious soul must endure for a limited period of time.

God bless, peace and love….

Ox Drover

Dear Inthebreach,

Goodmorning, and I hope your night was one of rest. I am like Jane, your story makes me grind my teeth! LOCKING THE CHILD IN THE TRUNK OF HIS CAR. (Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!)

I was filing a petition to keep a pedophile in prison for the full term of his sentence, and I bought Dr. Salter’s book about them to use as a reference in my petition to the parole board, and in reading it, I became SO ANGRY that it took me several days to even begin to calm down. SUCH INJUSTICE!!! Such EVIL!!!!

I cannot even imagine how YOU feel in such a circumstance and my heart and my concern go out to you and your son.

I hope that Dr. Salter’s books will give you some ideas to help you keep your child safe from this monster. You ARE a smart and strong woman, and KEEP LISTENING TO YOUR INTUITION AND SUSPICIONS, so many times these are RIGHT ON and I know I myself have brushed away these intuitive warnings like “cob webs” that touched my face. I will never again brush such a feeling away. I will examine it for TRUTH. (((hugs))) and my prayers are with you and your son for your safety and healing. God bless you both.

inthebreach57

Dear OxDrover and JaneSmith,
I thank you both for your prayers and support, most especially for my son. There is so much that has happened and Jacob is the half of it. If I had not had my therapist I would have long ago taken my life and he had me so close to talking me into it. I haven’t seen my therapist in quite some time because it is MOST important that the little money I have be used for Jacob’s therapy. Focusing on him (Jacob) has not alleviated the depression that comes with trying to untangle this mess but it gives the tiny spark of hope and strength to fight this man. God give me strength!!
Your experiences are every bit as damaging and horrifying as my sons and mine. Every post I have read on this site points to the fact that all of us have been attacked in the spirit. Our children, extended family, friends, social contacts, pets, finances and our morals and sanity are constantly being what I like to call, “sifted.” While the P is busy in their frenzied quest for destruction they are also out destroying your reputation by labeling you as crazy to as many people as they can get to listen. Once they have set those wheels in motion anything you say will be dismissed, discounted and disbelieved because you carry the crazy label. The prevailing theme that each of us carry when we have posted our stories is that every damn one of those P’s have repeated the mantra to us that we are crazy and they have worked like demons to convince as many people as possible to help them validate that label upon us. They play the bully game of “might makes right.” We don’t need a crowd to tell them to their faces what we know and recognise in them. We need a crowd to keep us strong enough to deal with the next onslaught they will surely come our way with so we can oppose them face to face! The moment I deal with my P as I would with a normal, decent person he doubles back on me every time, so ANY encounter I have with him, he is greeted with as much derision and disgust as I can muster. It disturbs him because others are supposed to have social rules of civility and the pretense of pleasantness, unlike him who plays by his own rules. My motto towards him is, “play and lose”, because I’m NOT PLAYING!! I detest this man and he worked long and hard to earn that. I would rather face 10 demons in hell than ever have to spend or rather waste another day of my life with him. Bitter? You bet I am and it is righteous indignation. When I get this parasite permanently removed from my life and the ability to protect my son, then I will let go of the bitterness, but I will never forget his wicked wind blowing through my childrens and my life. Well, that was a vent! I am praying for each of you also. There is none more powerful than God and don’t think for a moment He isn’t witnessing what you are going through at the hands of these P’s. We know God deals with all of us in His own time and His own way. We also know He is not pleased with the cruel and unrepentent. They have their way for a season and then they reap the whirlwind that they have sown. I take no pleasure in seeing him go down but I know without doubt he surely will and it is merely a matter of time.
I am going to find Dr. Salter’s books and give some time to reading them. Knowledge is power in dealing with a P and we need all the knowledge we can get to insure this never happens again. Love and Blessings, Julie

Ox Drover

Dear Inthebreach,

Your strength and determination show forth in your posts. Your cause is righteous and your strength will endure as long as it needs to. Dr. Salter’s frustration and righteous indignation at these people is easily seen in her books. She doesn’t try to hide her feelings about these people (primarily men) who assualt children sexually. Though she doesn’t at any time describe them as psychopaths, I think that by DEFINITION they would HAVE TO BE WITHOUT CONSCIENCE. The rate at which they reoffend even after arrest and incarceration seems to me to be proof positive of this.

Your son is fortunate to have a strong, determined mother. I pray for your strength and courage in the fight ahead of you. Your son is fortunate to have a capable and willing defender. I will keep you and your son in my prayers. I firmly believe that prayers accomplish miracles.

What you label “bitterness” under the current circumstances I don’t think is “bitterness” at all, but RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION and is totally justified. That righteous indignation will give you strength for the fight. Jesus felt anger and righteous indignation when he threw the money changers out of the Temple. There is not a thing in the world wrong with righteous indignation when the situation calls for it.

I know that when the assault of your X is over, that your need for that righteous indignation will no longer be there and you can become calm again. ((((((Julie & Jacob))))

Inthebreach,

Thank you for staying in contact with LF and the members who care tremendously for you and your son. We are completely on your side regarding the most disgusting expreriences with the psycho.

You sound so very strong and determined as evident in your above post and as Oxy has confirmed. And there’s no way that you are bitter. The righteous indignation is well earned and well believed.

Any loving, mentally healthy, compassionate, spiritual man or woman would be furious over his sick deceptions and manipulations.

And don’t worry about the psycho causing others to think you are the crazy one. You’re not, we believe. Eventually when you’re in a place removed from him and his evil machinations, in a place of peace for you and Jacob, his own twisted selfish hunger will be revealed to those in his orbit. Just a matter of time.

You’re doing the right thing, by focusing on your lovely son’s mental and physical welfare but also on your wellbeing. That is truly THE most important thing right now and you clearly, competently understand that implicitly.

We are here if you need to vent. It’s totally acceptable and understandable. We believe and support you.

God bless you and Jacob,
Peace, love and joy

inthebreach57

OxDrover and JaneSmith,
Today I got another gift from the P. He usually tries to send some evil wind of conflict my way each week. Lucky me, its been two weeks since the last onslaught. My attorney called and said he received papers stating my P wasn’t going to pay for my sons tuition for Christian School because Jacob has refused to see him the past month. This is a clear violation of the court order which gives Jacob the option to see P. So, the ransom is the tuition and it is a punishment to Jacob for refusing to see him. He is petitioning for full custody and typical P trying to create his own rules as he goes. Good grief he is an attorney himself and knows better than this. Is he losing control? I think by asking for full custody he is playing the court system. Ask for it all and you will get “something”. For instance, even limited access to my son will please him because he can continue to do damage. The judge allowed Jacob’s real father’s attorney to combine their case with mine. That will be a huge help to Jacob’s future welfare. We are getting an emergency hearing before the judge for Spencer’s contempt of court. Personally, I could care less if he pays the tuition or not because we have an excellent public school down the road from us. This latest ploy is weak at best. Parading my grown daughters around town and giving them piles of money looks absurd and malicious. Yes, it hurts Jacob that his sisters have not come to see him but I’m guessing the P is using them for purposes of getting to Jacob which has backfired because they are not in contact with Jacob at all. I see the girls are getting goodies from the P, but they are not delivering their brother to him. Hmm, now what ARE my daughters doing?!

Ox Drover

Dear inthebreach,

Ii doon’t understand why he has ANY visitation rights as a “step father”—did he adopt Jacob legally? I’m at least Jacob’s biological father is combiining cases with you.

My gosh, this guy is EVIL—but obviously determined.

I’m so sorry that your daughters have “sold out” or whatever they have done. My oldest son C married a P and during the entire almost 8 years, he was “distant” at best from the rest of the family because of her. Thank God that since she tried to kill him that he has “seen the light” and realized that she was working him, that his P-brother was working him, and our relationship is now closer than ever.

Young people seldom “get it” about this sort of thing and I hope that your daughters do eventualy “get it” and see that they have been led astray. But, they are adults, as my son was, and you can only do so much and then you just have to “let go” but I do know it is difficult and that your son misses his sisters, but there comes a time in adult children’s lives that they have to rise or fall by their own behavior and as a parent we have to let go (as much as it pains us) I am grateful to God that my relationship with C has been restored and strengthened by his whole situation and that the X-DIL-P is OUT of our lives. I pray for your daughters as well as you and your son.

I can tell from your posts that you are a powerful and strong woman, and I am so glad that you are keeping us advised. I and I am sure others here will keep you in our prayers. I have added you and Jacob to several prayer chains so he and you a host of people praying for you. (((hugs))))

inthebreach57

Oxdrover and JaneSmith,
I forgot to thank you for prayers and support. You have mine too!! You are both so bright and full of information. It has been so long since I have been able to afford to see my own therapist and I miss her. The two of you communicate in a very similar fashion as my therapist does. I should be paying you..(grin). She read my P the first time he walked into her office under the guise of wanting her (MY THERAPIST!) to counsel us on marriage. She knew he was checking out the scenery, posturing his victimhood, blaming and seeking pity. He actually had the audacity to start his plea with, “she thinks”, etc, ad nauseam. My immediate response was, “last time I checked you were not psychic nor are you inhabiting my mind, so how the hell would you know what I think?” Needless to say he walked out of that office in a rather foul mood.
If I could request a specific prayer. Could you two pray that the judge will have wisdom and discernment in his rulings on this case? Thank you and blessings for you and all of your loved ones. Julie

inthebreach57

OxDrover,
No, the P never adopted my son. It is just crazy and out of control over the top the way he is behaving. The biggest control he lost was over me. He will no longer have a wife and her children as a cover for his life and I wonder if he is experiencing fear? He has become so strange and hostile over the past few years that I cannot imagine he will be attracting any women in the future. Who can guess what the P is motivated by at any given moment. I know I have to consciously check myself when he shows that pitiful, sad, downtrodden face because it means he is trying to stir pity in me and also is about to or has done something ugly to me or my children. The day I can broom him from my life and my children, will be a day of thankfulness and celebration. My worst fear is he will somehow manage to legally inflict himself on us and I will be dealing with him 9 more years in some capacity with Jacob.
Thank you for putting us on the prayer chains-they are powerful. You are a sweetheart.

Odette

Dear inthebreach57

I boiled with rage as I read your story. I don’t even know your ex-P but I want to kill him! I can only imagine the pain you and son have been put through. No matter where you live (I’m South African) the justice system seems to let down women and children. Why is this man still walking around freely?

I’m so very sorry that you and your son have to deal with this monster in your lives. All strength to both of you. You’re a fighter and he couldn’t break your spirit…you’re an infinitely better person than he is.

I hope you know that everyone on this site believes you and supports you. Please keep coming back here…this is one place where you will find people who understand and who don’t judge.

Ox Drover

Dear Inthebreach,

I agree with Odette, it makes my blood boil! That he could even have the gall to try to force any visitation, much less “full custody” when he is only an EX-STEP FATHER is beyond me.

Is it all about “money”?–you said the court had ordered him to pay for Jacob’s Christian school. If it’s all about (with him) Money, offer him whatever will let him “feel he has won” in exchange for an agreement that he will never contact you or Jacob again. Almost like a restraining order or order of protection, and if he violates that he is FINED BIG TIME or jail.

This guy seems so determined to “win”—maybe letting him think he has “won” something would get him off your back and he would move on. Maybe not. He really does sound determined and manipulative. UGH!!!! It may also, IF he has done anything “improper” with Jacob that he is wanting access to make sure the child doesn’t “tell” so he can manipulate Jacob to “keep quiet.”

I applaud you for not being homicidal in this instance,and for keeping your faith. I know for myself, I am not as patient with God as I should be and I want what I want NOW! And always, He comes through–in His time. LOL I will continue to pray for you and your son and I always pray for the judge or jury and the lawyers in a case if it is a legal thing. When Jesus asked the man if he had faith that He could heal his son, the man said “I believe, Lord. Help my unbelief” and Jesus helped his son.

I often think about that passage. He said he believed, and he WANTED to believe, but yet he knew that having his son healed was “impossible” but he wanted it so badly. I feel like that man did sometimes, and I bet lots of people do when something looks so bleak or there is a fight or a test of our faith. I also ask that the Lord help MY unbelief, and allow me to TRUST God’s time and strengthen me.

When I apparently lost in court through the P’s manipulation of my mother and her money, I felt so let down—-there was nothing else I could do. Then only two months later, the whole plot fell apart and the two on the outside were in JAIL. I lookd back and realized then that if I had “won” in court, the whole thing would not have imploded. So by losing the “battle,” God won the war! So sometimes what seems like a “set back” is really setting things up for the ultimate win. (((hugs)))))

inthebreach57

Dear Odette and OxDrover,
The one thing about this site is that it is true what Odette says, “we believe and support the men and women here.” I feel we all recognise common behaviors and traits in the P’s that infiltrated our lives. THAT was the thing that utterly shocked me when I found this site. I had nothing to compare what I and my son was experiencing until I found this site. I thought OMG there ARE other people going through this and worse!
I’m sure there are people here who do not share a belief in God and the hope some us here place in Him. We love their souls too and want the best for them also. To just give someone the comfort of knowing they are not crazy and there is no way they could have seen what was coming when the P’s preyed upon them, is meant to give strength to that person. I pray and wish for everyone on here to find their peace, stability and safety.
Odette, wish I were anywhere but here right now. South Africa sounds appealing, the further away the better!

Odette

Dear Inthebreach

I wish you and your son could come to South Africa! Winter is coming to an end and Cape Town is looking particularly pretty in the spring sunshine. I live at the foot of Table Mountain and many believe that the mountain is a place of great positive energy. I don’t know if that’s true but I do know that when I’m away from it for too long I miss it (lol…really I do) and when I return I feel a palpable sense of homecoming.

I wish you could come here and feel that too. You need a space that is calm and welcoming, where you can let down your guard for a while and just rest. If I was rich I’d send you two tickets immediately…lol.

inthebreach57

OxDrover,
I just cracked up when I read your comment about, “I applaud you for not being homicidal.” I have had visions of him stepping off the curb in front of the bus! Bad! Bad! Sorry God, musn’t think such things.
I think the P wants to keep Jacob quiet and confused also. I also agree that money plays an enormous factor. If there were a legal way to get him to sign a document to stay away forever it would be a huge answer to prayers. Maybe I should ask my attorney about this.
Got my weekly gift in Saturday mail. He filed contempt of court papers on me because Jacob refuses to see him. Accused me of discussing the divorce case with my son and said I was telling Jacob he ( the soon to be ex) is a pathological liar, all attorneys are liars and child molesters and I was keeping Jacob from seeing him. I thought I was going to spit my coffee across the room! Wow! That is an awful lot of information and accusations coming from a man who claims he is having no contact with my son. I thought I was reading his confession for a moment (grin). I can’t wait for this dreck to come across the judges desk and I am sure he will have more sickening motions to file before we get to court Sep. 19. I think my P is losing control because he can’t stand to be ignored. He really shot himself in the foot when he lured my oldest daughters away with money because they broke contact with Jacob and I, therefore they are not around either of us to report back to him. These P’s don’t have much foresight sometimes. My attorney immediately counter filed on these claims asking for unequivical proof of the accusations put forward. Uh,oh not good for P.
I remember the scripture of the man believing and also asking the Lord to help his unbelief. There are still miracles all around us everyday and we sometimes have to look real hard, but they are there. What you went through with your mother is beyond the pale. Did the P ruin your relationship forever (because you know it would give him such great pleasure to capture your mom from you.) At least don’t let him think he did because capturing any of your family members is a major kill for them.
There are a couple family members of mine besides my daughters that my P likes to call and chat up pleasantly occasionally. They see nothing wrong with it because HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING TO THEM. I know it is wrong but I have limited empathy for them when they complain of being mistreated or disrespected by someone, because what my child is being put through seems unimportant to them. Can’t help it right now, it’s just the way I feel.

Ox Drover

Dear Inthebreach,

My son also lost my mother, because my only other biological son told her that if she corresponds with my P-son, or sends him any more money that he will go NC with her, and since my sons and I are the only family my mom has (I’m an only child) except a nephew and 2 nieces, she is SOL for family without my son C. So though she resents it, she is apparently not writing or sending money any more to my P-son. Even after a year ye hasn’t given up on getting one of us to correspond with him (read: send money) but he is frustrated to the MAX and has tried every tactic he can think of, and then a few too. He doesn’t know that my relationship with my mother is NC (forever) as anyone who knows him and might have reported that to him doesn’t know that I am NC with her, so he didn’t get any satisfaction about that. It isn’t really about HIM that I went NC with her, but her own toxic enabling and her hipocracy and her own lies.

I can relate to how you feel about your family not having empathy for you and your son in dealing with your . On a Christian blog for survivors that I blog on had a discussion about this same thing now long ago. Many people seem to hang on to the “well there’s good in everyone deep down” and “How could he really be so bad? He’s so polite”? LOL

If the P isn’t slobbering at the mouth or screaming insanely, and wielding a knife or a gun, they think if they are pleasant and polite they must be “nice people.” LOL

Please know that Jacob and you are in my prayers and thoughts. Keep us posted on how your court dates turn out. (((hugs))))) PS I have passed your names on to several BIG prayer lists and asked them to pray for the Judge to have wisdom and discernment!

Odette

Dear Inthebreach

I am with you on the homicidal feelings. For a long time I actually plotting out revenge scenarios…not all of which he would survive…lol.

I’m really sorry this man is making your life so difficult and that he is trying to get at your son. I think it’s crazy that anyone would even listen to his demands to see your son, who is not legally his. I can’t even imagine how difficult this must be for both of you.

What options are available to you to keep him away from your son?

lostingrief

My boyfriend of many years recently left me for a younger woman who is pregnant with his baby (which he told me AFTER cheating for almost six months (or so he says)). He said, yup i’ve been cheating, she’s pregnant, i’m in love with her, so … oh well … see ya around.
He was one of the most anxious people i’ve ever known. Eyes constantly darting around, most of the time never listening to a word i said, always off in space somewhere (with his sexual conquests is my guess). He was extremely superstitious, as well, esp. about death. His catchphrase was “I’m not afraid of anything.” But in reality, I realize now he was afraid of EVERYTHING. He was forever up in other peoples’ business. Everyone thought he was amazing … and wanted a piece of him in some way. We could go out somewhere and within 10 minutes he’d have five phone numbers (mostly females) in his pocket. He is a seductive devil — extremely good-looking and built — and looks far younger than his 38 years.
This is less than a week old for me. I’m crushed to pieces. I just want to know WHY he would jeopardize his relationship with the only person he could trust.
He now has three kids by two different women, with number four on the way with female number four. I guess I should be happy I avoided this pitfall.

blondie

welcome to lovefraud lostingrief, my online friend. this is a huge support group and you should read read and read about these type of people in the world. im not in the best place to help you with advice bc im still in the middle of my battle. everyone on here has helped me in many many ways. when you need to vent, vent here. this is the only place in the world anyone understands what your going though. i dont know much of your situation or how long you where together but sounds like he was a big jerk. you dont need him. trust me you dont understand that right now but why would you want to be with someone who has many females around and is always on the prowl. he is a liar, a cheater. they are NO GOOD. they dont care about us, which is so hard so come to terms with. he may blame you for your break up but guess what who cares. i think everyone who knows him knows what type of person he is like, they wont believe him. that is just the story he tells. He will never admit the wrong he did. you have to understand the truth of your life with him. i think others will give you better advice then i did. be thankful you dont have any kids by him and you can get away from him and never have to see him again. you dont have to play his game anymore, you dont have to be cheated on anymore. you deserve to be with someone who is only with you. and loves you. any man that loves you would never say oh yeah ive been cheating and now im leaving you bye. its completley heartless. keep your head up and pray. i will be praying for you, for me and everyone on this website thats in pain.

rperk6069

Lostingrief,
My ex P also started seeing a much younger woman (she was 26 to his 41) and got her pregnant, from what I hear now, she is pregnant again. It was very painful for me. I know how you feel.

alohatraveler

LostinGrief,

You hit it on the head… he left the only person he could ever truly trust… YOU. But it sounds like you couldn’t truly trust him based on your synopsis of him.

I don’t know any normal guys that have babies popping up everywhere.

I know it’s painful but pay attention to the way he left you. Where was the caring for your feelings? If he really was in a loving relationship with you… I mean who leaves with an oh-well-better-luck-next-time attitude? That is the way you treat someone that didn’t win the prize at a carnival game. That is NOT how you leave someone whose life was entwined with yours for years. Therein lies the answer.

I am glad you found LoveFraud. Stay awhile, okay?

We understand what you are going through and that is a big part of the healing.

Ox Drover

Dear Lostingrief,

One of the BIGGIE things, as Aloha mentioned, is that psychopaths “spread their seed far and wide”—many times they “knock up” and move on and it is common that they may have many children by many different women. They usually do not care for or support these children. The kids are just “notches on the bedpost” for them. The women who are the mothers of these children are just conquests.

You are right, you are the only one he could trust, but he is INCAPABLE of loving or appreciating anyone who is good. He is like a “spoiled” two year old, he wants what he wants right now and he doesn’t care what happens to anyone else. He will never change. You may not feel so right now, but he did you a BIG FAVOR by leaving you, because now you can heal and be free of him, and it is a big blessing that you don’t have his child to tie you to him. ((((hugs))))) yes, please stay awhile. Learning about psychopaths will help you heal and there is wonderful support here—read, learn, post, vent, scream, cry whatever you need to do. The people here will believe you, because we’ve been there. Welcome.

alohatraveler

LostInGrief,

Be the one YOU can trust.

I had to learn this. I am still working on it.

Aloha

lostingrief

Again, thank you all. I find myself in unfamiliar territory — being cared for and understood. I was with this nutcase for 15 years, on and off … mostly on. I stood by him through everything. How could an intelligent, warm, spiritual and, believe it or not, feminist(!) fall for this? What the hell is wrong with me? According to him, my nagging him about whether he was cheating or not ”drove” him to be with this girl! (I just can’t call her a woman, she’s nearly half my age.)
I’m confused. I really appreciate your support. Can there really be people like this … so cold and calculating … yet the center of attention, on everyone’s ‘favorite person list’, give-ya-the-shirt-off-his-back guys who are really just doing everything as a manipulation!?! I’m really having a hard time wrapping my brain around this. For real.

alohatraveler

Lostingrief,

Yes. There really are guys like this. My ex, whom I call “The Bad Man” was formerly a Minister. Looking like a good guy is a very common tactic. It’s a way of kind of spinning reality. How can I be abused by a Minister, Yoga Guru, Counselor, Boy Scout Leader, Good Neighbor.. etc.?

Lost, you will find that there are many bright, articulate, caring, successful people here at LF. So you are in good company. Take yourself off of any loser list you may have put yourself on, okay? It’s totally okay. We fell for all kinds of ridiculous BS. The thing is, it looks much more ridiculous when you are wiping the Sh*t off your shoe than when you are standing knee deep in it with no clear view of the way out.

Rest assured that you did not drive this man away with nagging. UGH. I hate that. Bad Man always said things like this… the reason they say things like that is this… see how he has shifted your focus off of your suspicions that he was cheating and onto defending your characer and feeling bad about yourself. The next time you get a feeling that he was up to something unsavory, you keep your mouth shut because you don’t want to be a nag. No one wants to be a nag! She how that works?

This method, slowly… no.. quickly… takes away your sense of reality… and trusting yourself. It erodes are your sense of self worth amd makes you start to wonder why such a great guy would put up with a nag like you… see?

Isn’t it awful!

I hope you realize that I am not calling you a nag. I have been through exactly what you are talking about. I am sure many others will resonate with you on this as well.

Get used to being cared about and understood here. This is the place! For real.

:o)
Aloha

Ox Drover

Dear Lostingrief,

You are, as Aloha said, in GOOD company here. There are therapists, psychiatrists, I am a retired Registered Nurse Practitioner with quite a bit of mental health experience, etc. All our “knowledge” and “education” didn’t help us a bit more than “Suzie Homemaker” with a GED. It isn’t about how smart or not smart a person is or how educated or uneducated it is about EMOTIONS.

Caring, good people are the “poster children” for VICTIMS. BECAUSE we care, because we can love, we make the perfect victim for them. We try to be “nice” to “play fair” to see the “other’s point of view.” They do NOT play nice, care, or see anyone’s view but their own.

They would “tell a lie when the truth would fit better”—just because that’s what a psychopath does.

READ and READ and READ here, every one of the old essays in the archives, buy and read The Sociopath next door” and Dr. Robert Hare’s “Without Conscience” and educate yourself about these predators. That’s what they are. They LOOK HUMAN but they don’t think like “humans” they think like wolves or tigers. They learn to disguise themselves as “nice” or “normal” but they are anything but.

KNOWLEDGE=POWER and that is what you have to do is educate yourself about them so that in the future you can spot others and so that you can get your head “around” what they are. You will realize that you didn’t DO a thing WRONG, you were just MANIPULATED and LIED TO and USED.

Sure it is difficult to realize that there is NOT ‘good in everyone deep down” there are people who are EVIL to the CORE. They’re not all in jail either.

You HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE, everyone here has been through the wringer with you, some of us multiple times, but this is a HEALING PLACE, so feel free to ask questions, post, scream or rant if you need to. This is a SAFE place, a good place.

Aloha explained how they twist things back on you, and she is so right on about it. In many ways they are so predictable once you see the pattern. We joke that we all “dated the same guy” because in many ways their “tricks” are like they are out of the same “playbook” in so many ways.

Be good to yourself! This wasn’t anything that you did wrong, or caused, regardless of what he said. There was NOTHING you could have done to have made him love you and treat you well…he can’t love anyone!

alohatraveler

AMEN Oxy! AMEN!

hens

aloha The way you explain, shifting the focus on us and taking it away from them is so right on. My X was a master at that. And it did leave me so frustrated because I knew he was lie ing and my intuition was always correct. But he would turn the focus on me and before it was all over I was asking for forgiveness for something I didn’t do. i get validated everytime I read a post here……..welcome lost in grief you could not be in a better place then LF……..

inthebreach57

Dear Lostingrief,
I feel sad for the pain and grief you must be feeling right now. I had a boyfriend in my late teens I dated for two years. I was given the same message as you except the other girl was my friend. Talk about hurt and humiliation! You are still young and now is the time for you to concentrate on yourself physically, emotionally and spiritually. It is time for you to start the healing process. You are about to blossom as you work through your grief and pain. He is about to step off into stress, worry and stamping out all those fires he has going. Don’t take his calls and refuse any contact with him..he will only want your sympathy to use you, but you have probably already been down that road with him before. Listen to the people on this website. These men and women have pearls of wisdom and support for you. Support that your friends and family cannot comprehend or posess knowledge of to help you in the way you need guidance right now. Read the books they recommend; Without Conscience, by Robert Hare is an excellent starting point that OxDrover suggested. It will affirm what you knew deep inside and open your eyes even more.

God Bless, Inthebreach

Ox Drover

How are you doing, Inthebreach? I think about you and pray for you and Jacob daily!

It’s been a good day here at LF and here on the farm as well. I got the carpet down on the second room of my “art studio” and we got the filtration system working on our water well that the natural gas drillers had polluted, so we are back in business again! No more hauling water to drink! Whoopie! You just don’t know how much ou love indoor plumbing til you are without it for a while! LOL What’s that old saw, you don’t miss the water til the well runs dry! (or in our case MUDDY)

inthebreach57

OXDROVER, JANESMITH, BEVERLY and ODETTE,
Today, I went to the bank and had the papers notorized that my attorney sent me on Saturday. They were the response to my P’s filing contempt of court and keeping him from visitation with Jacob. I broke down crying while the bank notary was notorizing the papers. I don’t remember breaking down in public like this ever before. I just suddenly felt tired and overwhelmed by it all and I know next week he will be sending more ridiculous games and accusations my way. There is a spiritual erosion that seems to be attached when you are being spun in the web and desparately trying to escape it. We can disprove every accusation he made but it is still stress filled constantly defending the onslaught of endless attacks and lies. The endless lying still astounds me and I wonder if he lies in bed at night plotting the next attack or if it is as natural as breathing to him. For those of you who believe in God maybe you can understand that this feels like all out demonic attack.
When Lucifer waged war in heaven because he wanted God’s Throne and to be worshipped, he was kicked down into the atmosphere (here) while other of the angels were chained in hell. The bible says Lucifer took a third of the stars (angels) with him. I wonder if one of those demons is called psychopath because it goes against everything decent and humane we are to strive for as human beings. I was thinking of this because of the Christian website you mentioned, OxDrover. How these people find it difficult to accept there is such wickedness when the very bible they are studying from states over and over that these people do exist and always have. Cain was the first example of a psychopath/sociopath. He was jealous, narcissisistic, a liar, murderer and without conscience. He murdered his own brother and when God asked where his brother Abel was; his defensive, obnoxious response was,”Am I my brothers keeper?!” No remorse, side stepped an honest answer…his omission in refusing to admit he murdered him was tantamount to a lie and he felt God owed it to him to favor him (narcissism). So the first sin addressed was Adam and Eve’s disobedience. The second seems to be Cain’s sociopathy.
Ted Bundy had the greatest pity play of all when he was hunting..he faked broken arms to lure his victims. He worked on a suicide hotline with Ann Rule when she was a detective for the Seattle Police Department. Did it mean there was some thread of decency in him? I say no! Psychopaths love playing with and having control over others lives. It is part and parcel of their makeup. It would be interesting to actually hear a recording of what he was telling these people who were calling for help to save their lives, but I doubt Seattle Police Dept. would ever release that info because it probably has some really bad things he said to people when he worked that hotline alone. Then again maybe they never taped the calls because it was the seventies.
We have to get around to asking ourselves the question of what are we going to take away from our experiences with the P’s that showed up or insinuated themselves in our lives. Sure we are the walking wounded but we don’t have to be the walking dead. Our purpose in life has not changed. It is to be the very best we can be to the very best of our ability. I suspect every person on here that has been victimized is superior in their abilities to nurture and that was the key of attraction the P zeroed in on. Nurturers are patient, forgiving, longsuffering and trust in the goodness of humanity. We can still do that but we MUST be aware and stop ignoring our own needs and our intuition when we see, feel and hear something amiss..just stop dismissing and ignoring what you know. Why do this to ourselves when the P’s had a field day already doing this to us? I give all of you my love as a sister and prayers for resolve and peace beyond understanding.
Blessings to each of you, Inthebreach

inthebreach57

OxDrover,
LUCKY!! You have an art studio? That is great and what therapy it must be for you. It has been 6 years since I did my last collage and mosaic for my brothers. They loved them but the P complained of the cost of my art supplies and dismissed it all as foolishness, no talent..you know, the usual put downs. Know what is funny thinking back? The P could not change a lightbulb, literally! I wish I were a good painter and drawer but that is not my gift. I used to work in an art gallery for a friend on occasion and I loved it. I learned so much from the clients.
Yeah! You have modern plumbing again- and convenience! From age 4-7 I lived with my fathers parents who were beyond poor. They had an outhouse, no tub or shower and the kitchen sink had a pump instead of a faucet. Our bathing took place in the kitchen in an old metal tub where they added water heated in kettles on the stove. My grandma made her own soap but sometimes treated the family to a bar of Dove. I love the smell of Dove even now. She cooked everything from scratch- thus my love of cooking. We lived way out in the country in Vandalia, Illinois. They had an old tv they only turned on in the evening for news, otherwise it was always the radio that was on. My brother, cousin and I lived there and we ran through corn fields and played in woods. We had no idea we were poor until we moved to Peoria where the other children promptly pointed it out in no uncertain terms. As happy as my brother and I were to be back with our parents, we always missed moving away from our grandparents and the complete innocence we lived in. We still laugh about my grandma washing our hair. No one scrubbed a head like her. Ouch! But we sure had shiny hair and our clothes were always clean and pressed. I so much want to see her and grandpa again when this life is done. We learned from them not to judge others on what they have but who they are. Being poor they were honest, hard working, believed in the Lord as a merciful and kind God. Not a God that is holding a hammer waiting for you to mess up, but just waiting for you to be repentent and try harder next time. They showed us great love but they also spelled out the rules for us so we didn’t need to question. They gave us security and structure. I will love them eternally and always be thankful for them having been a part of my life and for the wonderful man they raised that was my father. My grandparents had 9 children. All are dead now except one uncle who is terminally ill. I miss them all. What a family they were. Oh, and the outhouse was a two seater and cold as ice in the winter. I won’t forget that either. Grin!

Prayers and Blessings to you and yours, Julie

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