Passing through the hatred and rage at the sociopath’s betrayal

Saturday night, the Lovefraud reader “rriinnaa” posted the following under Heeding the Exploiter’s Earliest Warning:

I cant stop crying .. and I dont know what Im crying over ! Im crying over the happy-go-lucky joyful loving warm Rina.. the woman I once was .. THAT I POSSIBLY won’t be again ”¦. i want to be held and rocked until this pain goes away, but i have to work, i have to pay bills,i have to bring up my children ”¦ all the PROMISES HE MADE TO ME, “when you cry Rina, I will cry with you” ”¦.. “I would die for you Rina—¦. “such simple things make you happy Rina”.. “Rina, you are the light in my life—¦ “Rina, you are strong and I believe in you” .. AND AND AND AND AND AND AND .. oh my god AND I BELIEVED EVERYTHING HE EVER SAID TO ME”¦ I believed him .. he hated me because I was strong and he did everything in his power to crush that.. he didnt have that sense of fun, that wacky sense of humour, that friendliness that everyone fell in love with THAT WAS ME, THAT WAS THE GIRL HE MET”¦. and I have lost that girl i once was.. i want it back, i want to live and laugh and be happy .. he has turned me into his apprentice monster ”¦ oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TELL ME THERE IS KARMA.. TELL ME HE WILL HURT ONE DAY PLEASE TELL ME THAT HE FEELS .. yeah right ”¦”¦”¦I still can’t get it in my head THAT HE IS A SICK SOCIOPATH.. I STILL CANT BELIEVE I FELL IN LOVE WITH THAT THING ! IM GOING CRAZY .. i cant get my head around it .. i saw a psychologist.. it was the worst thing i could have done last week ..IS THERE A GROUP MEETING WHERE I CAN TALK TO REAL PEOPLE IN MELBOURNE ABOUT THIS MONSTER ????? can someone guide me to somewhere, someone that understands what I am going through ????????????????????
i am sorry”¦ i am ranting”¦. maybe i have finally gone over the edge ? nooooooo NO NO .. i never will. I will find the strength.. .again .. im up and down and my kids are suffering.. as much as I try to hide it ”¦”¦. they feel it, they see it and I HATE HIM FOR DOING THIS TO ME I HATE HIM ..

I remember feeling like this. In fact, when I read Rina’s message, I got that old tightening in my chest, that inability to breathe, that constantly-on-the-verge-of-tears feeling again.

I remember the rage, the hatred, the utter despair.

They’re normal reactions to the betrayal of a sociopath.

Why it’s so bad

We’ve all had romantic relationships end before. Why the end of a relationship with a sociopath so much worse?

First of all, the scale of the deception is beyond what most of us have ever experienced. These people don’t just lie about where they were last night. Their entire lives are lies—everything they ever did, every human relationship they ever had. In my case, as I started to unravel what was really going on, each day brought another fabrication, another betrayal. Recently, nine years after I left my sociopathic ex-husband, I discovered yet another lie. It never ends.

Then, the degree to which we were used is unbelievable. My ex-husband wanted a place to live, reliable sex and someone to finance his dreams of grandeur. All his love notes, his little gifts, and his forever promises, were designed to make me provide those things. It worked. Then, two and a half years later when I was used up, he moved on.

But perhaps the biggest reason why it’s so bad is because sociopaths steal our dreams and use them against us. In those heady early days of the relationship, as the sociopaths listen intently, we’re spilling our guts, telling them what we really want, what is really important to us, what we want out of life. We think they’re listening because they truly want everything that we want. In reality, they’re listening to discover the deepest places within us where they can set their hooks.

Sooner or later, it all collapses.

At that point, we lose our trust—trust in other people, trust in ourselves, trust if life itself. And as Karin Huffer writes in the Legal Abuse Syndrome, “the most profound loss is loss of trust.”

Dealing with the pain

We’re left with the emotional wreckage—along with very real problems like physical illness and injury, financial devastation, caring for children and legal issues. And all of it was caused by someone who supposedly loved us. What do we do?

The only way out of the pain is through it.

People often call and ask me how to cope. I suggest that you hold yourself together while dealing with the practical, financial and legal issues. Somehow, you have to keep your emotions in check so you can think and make decisions.

But after those concerns are handled, and you are alone, let it rip. Allow yourself to cry, yell and curse. Get physical—stomp your feet or twist towels. My personal favorite was envisioning my ex-husband’s face on a pillow, and punching the crap out of it. (For more information, read Releasing the pain inflicted by a sociopath.)

Why do we need to do this? Because emotions are physical. They are not intellectual concepts that will dissipate upon discussion. They are physical sensations, and must be dealt with physically. The tears, yelling and punching are the means by which the emotional pain is drained from the body.

What you’ll find is that there are layers and layers of pain—you’ll release some, and more will rise to the surface. So you do the exercise again. And again. And again.

Older, deeper pains

Then what you’ll find is that older pains—injuries not inflicted by the sociopath—will also rise to the surface. Perhaps they were injuries from your family of origin, or other relationships, or profound disappointments in your life.

When you find these pains, you have struck gold. These are the pains that made you vulnerable to the sociopath in the first place. They too, must be released. When they are no longer buried within you, you will be able to move into a new life of peace, contentment and happiness.

It’s hard to believe this when you are in the midst of the trauma. But it is true—you can pass through the pain and come out the other side. The process is not pretty. A therapist, if you can find one who gets it, may be able to guide you, but you alone must do the work. And it will take time.

Many of us on Lovefraud have talked about how we’ve become stronger, wiser individuals after our run-ins with the sociopaths. This is how it happens. We persevere through the pain, and then we are set free.

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370 Comments on "Passing through the hatred and rage at the sociopath’s betrayal"

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Dear dear Rina,

I noticed your first posts a few weeks ago. Wow, a fellow victim right here in Victoria, Australia, I thought!

Me, I am about two years out from the end of my victimisation, and I think I am just about at the point of really becoming myself again, and quite possibly a ***better*** self than I was before my encounter with the psychopath. It takes quite a while!

I still read LoveFraud almost daily. I too saw a psych. for a few sessions but she really didn’t “get” what I was talking about at all. In fact I had to edit the story for her, to make it more credible/manageable for her limited cognitive powers :-0. Reading Lovefraud, plus a few other web sites/articles, and a several books… has been much more useful on the whole.

Anyway, I’ve e-mailed my e-mail address to Donna with permission to pass it on to you, in case you’d like someone “local” to talk to. I don’t live IN Melbourne anymore, but in the country a couple of hours away, and do visit Melbourne a couple of times a month typically.

The stage you are at is absolutely disgusting – I remember it well! But it DOES get better, believe me.

Big (((hugs))).

Donna, thank you for such a wonderful response to this woman’s devastating pain. You put it all together so wonderfully, clearly and completely.

Yes, finding a therapist that “gets it” is difficult. I was fortunate that my psychiatrist had known me for some time and respected me. I did find a therapist that FINALLY believed me, but I had to take in court documentation and a witness to prove I wasn’t a “paranoid delusional” NUT CASE thinking the whole world is out to “get me.” LOL I wasn’t offended, because I KNOW how CRAZY and paranoid my story sounds, and EVERY STORY on here is JUST AS OUTRAGEOUS AND “UNBELIEVEABLE” by “normal” folks, even therapists. LOL

For the person who has not experienced such devastation from what might even seem to some as a “trivial” break up with a lover or a divorce—it is IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPREHEND.

In many things humans I think can somehow get SOME idea of how you suffer if you break your foot without having had a broken foot yourself…you have other things that are similar that you can compare them with. But it IS “different” with the total devastation of our psyches by the psychopaths. It is somehow so much deeper, so much more painful–the “tip of the ice berg” is all that shows, and the wounds are SO MUCH deeper and less visible than other wounds.

I liken it to a malignant melanoma, which can be on the SURFACE nothing more than a small black, irregularly shaped mole, but while very little shows, it is growing in every part of the body, eating it away with an INTERNAL CANCER that destroys its host from within.

The quicker we can find that the “cancer” is there, and excise it, the less damage it will do, and the better our chances of recovery without great damage—but if we ignore the outward signs (the red flags) and let it continue to secretly invade ourselves, it can literally kill us or rip us apart, leaving nothing but a shell.

Coming here to your site is so healing for so many of us and I would like to thank you again for your work on this and your care and understanding. God bless you, Donna.

Thank you Donna. Everything you wrote helped me to put certain things in perspective for me.

I read those posts by rriinnaa and I felt overwhelmed. I remember going through this.

This post helped me today because I have been struggling with a lot of anger at my family and about the disappointments of my life. It hadn’t occured to me that this too is a stage. I thought this was the end…and this is who I will be now: bitter, lonely, angry, hopeless.

I have had a few sleepless nights. I keep thinking of the old me and all that she believed in and feeling sad that “she” is gone. Without her, I don’t think I can fall in love again, nor am I very appealing to fall in love with. :o(

I am stuck in the place I call “Hopeless” because I have decided that hope is too dangerous and fantasy like. I can’t stand to hope for anything because I can’t stand to be disappointed. I saw a therapist twice but she insisted that I have hope. She didn’t understand that to me, HOPE means the possibility of being let down and falling on my face. I can’t do that again.

I am struggling right now because the man I was dating casually is being TOO casual and I know I need to cut him loose. I know it’s not going to change and I am starting to feel like I am providing him a service.. you know what I mean? I am confronted by the fact that I can’t bring myself to put an end to something that is totally unsatisfying to my spirit. Instead, it appears I am going to wait for the ax to drop and then I will feel bad even though I know this is a waste of my time. He’s no psycho but he’s not excited about me either. I can tell. We are a bore and a half together. Even his messages “just checking in” are SO BORING. The excitement level is a “2” for me but have I learned nothing? I still need the attention so bad. This makes me sick.

After everything I have been through, looking at how I am being now, I feel that I must still be vulnerable. I can see that my esteem and my worth are still tied to being loved by a man. AND.. I will STILL hang out with a man who CLEARLY does not love me. He’s not abusive, he’s just detached.

I am disappointed in myself.

rriinnaa I wish i could hold you and rock your pain away. That is how I feel that is what I want. Deliver me from all the sadness -deliver me from all the madness. There is no on – off swith for a broken heart. We do have to walk through the pain, day by day, minute by minute, second by second. We are not alone in this. It is up to us to heal our selves, hang in there…………..

Dear AloaT, I think it takes a long time to get over encounters with PDisordered people and can leave us in a place of feeling rather like a punctured balloon. Because we feel jaded with ourselves and life, it all takes on a rather jaded perspective. We gave so much energy, so that although we are over the worst and out of the mire, we are still in recovery.

Some of the simple things in life give us joy – find things in your life that give you joy and lift your spirits and raise your feel good feeling in yourself. One thing I have realised is to avoid situations that – leave me open to attack, lower my self esteem and that includes people and situations that are not adding value to my life. The man in your life is not the dangerous drama man you had before, so at least you know you are safe in that respect, and perhaps this is a settling ‘back in’ period for you. Best wishes to you Aloa. (((hugs)))

“I remember the rage, the hatred, the utter despair.”

Strange that you put those words in this order.
Rage, yes for me was first. a rage I never knew before or since.
Hated, deep hate for my abuser, then dealing with lies upon lies..
Utter despair is what is left from this relationship. Utter Despair!

“It never ends”

How very true! Knowing that this person will again use another. Again the lies go on and on! How can a person deny their own history and still walk around and believe there is any good inside that person?

“But perhaps the biggest reason why it’s so bad is because sociopaths steal our dreams and use them against us.”

I wanted (being a child of the state) a family even when I was a child. A family to call my own. Children that I would love and care for all my living days. When I was a child as an orphan what did I wish for Christmas? A father and mother! Did I want to be rich? No, I just wanted a family! Did I want to be famous and important person? No, I just wanted a family! Did I want to love and be loved? Yes, something I would be able to give to my family!

“Sooner or later, it all collapses.”

Yes, it all “collapses”. Our hopes, dreams and hard work. Trying over and over again to make work an dysfunctional relationship that never in a million years had any possibility of working!

“Then what you’ll find is that older pains—injuries not inflicted by the sociopath—will also rise to the surface. Perhaps they were injuries from your family of origin, or other relationships, or profound disappointments in your life.”

Past emotional debt! True and then how we all must re-open these past experience and try to heal from those as well. The very “past” of these emotional debts that allow us to become the victims we are today. I wanted my parents to love me. So what did I do? Find someone and then tried to make that person love me! Only to discover you can’t make people love you! I wanted my parents to be “fixed”. So what did I do? I found someone and tried to “fix” her! Only to discover that I can only fix me, never another person!


I feel your pain!


“I am stuck in the place I call “Hopeless” because I have decided that hope is too dangerous and fantasy like. “


This is something none of us can afford to lose.
“Hopeless is a dark and lonely place to be”.
We as a socially put people in these type of abyss.
Prisoners of War
Killers on death roll
Cancer victims

Hopelessness is only when we believe there is no hope left.
Remember 9/11?
Remember those that jump to their own death?
These people saw no hope.
Would I do the same in their place?
Maybe so..

There are times when there is no hope.
And that time is and always will be when we give up hope!


Your ex-sociopath took many things from you. Please don’t allow hope to be one of them..


As a child, I awoke with hope
My parents born me and gave me hope
Teaching me the joy of hope
As a child, I walk with this hope

As a young man, I bare hope
Going to school and learning about hope
Learning about people, places and things
All sharing the truth of Hope

Meeting a young girl and in her my hope
We married with only a promise of hope
For in my wife did I place my hope
Had children who awoke with hope
Us teaching them the joy of hope

All my children are now gone
Taking with them the joy of hope
Teaching their children the promise of hope
For in my children did we place the joy of hope

Here I lay dying
Old and fragile
I think of my life so filled with hope
A hope given to me as a child
A hope I shared with my wife
The joy of hope we gave to our children

So I ask myself is there no hope?
Here I lay dying
Old and fragile
Is my hope also dying?
Nay, I say!
For my hope will always be with
My lord
My wife
My children
And me…

That’s why hope can never die
Not when we place our hope
In those we love.
We place the joy of hope.

Great post. I have said along along that this journey has been a self discovery. As I have been reading all these books relating to S, I have found myself automatically thinking of other situations in my life that should have been a red flag, or situations from my growing up years that must probably have made me the way I am and why I fell for the S. I firmly believe now that if it would not have been this S and this situation, it would have been with someone else. Make sense?
It does sound like so many of you are doing so much better – it is a long process. I figure it took me 5 1/2 years to reach the end with the S, it will take 5 1/2 years to feel recovered. All you can do is take each day at a time – some are better than others; but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Dating I won’t even consider at this time. I have my family, friends, job, and even my house to keep me busy. Right now it IS all about me. I am finally taking care of myself FIRST!!
Keep up the good work all of you.
Donna, you are a Godsend!

Wow, some profound and deep thoughts!

Aloha, yes,, that is the way it is with HOPE, if you have no hope, you can’t be disappointed, but without hope there is no joy.

If you have no love, you can’t be betrayed, but if you have no love, you have no joy. (and that definitely includes self love)

If you have your heart’s desire, there is always the sword hanging over your head that it will leave, be broken, die; that in some way you will lose it.

In the years of the American Revolution, many women lost beloved children, many beloved wives died in childbirth or as a complication of it. I am reading a biography of Thomas Jefferson right now. His wife had 6 horrible pregnencies, and was critically ill with each one, four of those children died, most of the deaths after the children were several years old, Jefferson was filled with terror of losing Martha and guilt that their love and bearing children was killing her. When Martha finally died, even though her death had been expected for several months and he had had several close calls with her death before, he was totally unprepared for that death and went into a profound and deep depression.

Jefferson, though a man of genius, was on a personal level very troubled and dysfunctional. He bound his two surviving children to him with guilt that if they were not “good” children that he would not love them. By today’s standards, his letters to them were cruel missives of “do what I say or I will quit loving you.”

After his wife’s death, he had several affairs with unhappily married women, and then his slave Sally Hemmings by whom he had several more children. He was never a happy man except for the first few years that he was married, before his wife’s problems with her health began.

He felt that the Universe had taken away from him everything he loved and he didn’t deal well with the guilt and never really recovered his hope. His unresolved griefs haunted him like Ghosts for the remainder of his unhappy life. Even though the grief about his wife, never resolved, was not directly discussed in his letters, his letters to his paramour, and the famous 12 paged dialog between “Head and Heart” that he sent to her, give us a clear look into Jefferson’s emotional turmoil—the same turmoils that WE–humans—have about love vs loss.

Jefferson’s writings about his estatic love for this paramour, knowing it could not last, but being besotted by the woman, and she by him, (her marriage was not a marriage but a financial arrangement, however she was the property of another man) sounds like the feelings that we felt when we too were besotted by the Psychopaths’ promises of estacy.

My husband was 15 yrs older than me, and I knew there was a very good chance that I would out live him, but knowing that, I still loved him. Married him. Lost him. I would do it OVER AGAIN, KNOWING WHAT I KNOW NOW.

I purchase a dog, and love it, and know that there is almost 100% chance that I will outlive that dog, and grieve and cry when it dies, gets hit by a car, runs away, or whatever happens to it. Then I grieve and go get another dog…knowing the same thing, I will most likely outlive that companion of my heart.

Recently when doing a cattle herding demonstration my beloved border collie got kicked and went down like he had been shot RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES. I groveled in the mud and cow crap crying uncontrollably and in shock to pick up what I thought was his dead body, ignoring the 100s of people who were watching. Yesterday I tookk him out to work my cattle, knowing that there is always the odd chance it will happen again.

Everytime we put our kids on a school bus, there is a chance they might not come home. It isn’t as much a chance from disease and death by accident as Martha and Thomas Jefferson faced, but it is there. We know the RISKS of loss, and most of us have faced the REALITY of loss as well.

The complete resolution of grief, the final resolution of our losses, is that we can come to ACCEPTANCE..where we CAN HOPE again, we CAN LOVE again.

The mother who loses one child and never completely resolves the grief and lives in fear that something will happen to the other child and is continually in FEAR and without HOPE ruins her own joy, and the joy of the child as well. She smothers the liviviing Child with the FEARS of LOSS and the Lack of Hope.

We can go through the rage and anger, the sadness, the bargaining, and all the other stages of the “grief process” but if we don’t come to acceptance where we can again embrace HOPE—we have not completed the process. Unresolved grief is as TOXIC as about any cancer there is, it steals the joy of your life for what you DO HAVE. CAN HAVE.

We all laugh at the old cynical thing about “Murphy’s law” that “anything that can go wrong, will go wrong at the worst possible time.” My husband added to this that “Murphy was an optimist!” LOL

Getting through the rage and anger, I think is the easiest part, getting through the sadness is also one of the “easier” parts—it is coming to acceptence that is the HARD part.

With the loss of my P-son, first his imprisonment, and then the realization, the final realization that he is a MONSTER, will ALWAYS be a monster, and that there is “nothing” I can do about it but ACCEPT IT…I stayed in the “bargaining” stage for so long, thinking that if I did this it might help, if I did that it might help, it seemed to be helping, it didn’t seem to be helping, try something else, etc. and I stayed in UNRESOLVED GRIEF over the loss of my hopes and dreams and love for my son—it was only coming to acceptence with him that he was “dead” to me that I could put it behind me, get on with life and RENEW HOPE in my life. RENEW JOY.

When I realized that my mother was a TOXIC ENABLER for my P-son, a “psychopath by proxy” is my term for it, I felt all the pains of the loss of my parent, the shame the rage, the hate, the frustration—-but in the end I had to pronounce the relationships “dead”–just as dead as my stepfather and just as dead as my husband. GONE.

After my husband’s death and my LACK OF HOPE (My neediness) for another relationship left me open when the P waved his “magic wand” in front of my face and promised me the “love of my life” again—when that was gone, when I realized it was a FAKE, I again grieved….but have come again to ACCEPTENCE, and rational thought that it ISN’T LIKELY that I will ever find another “love of my life” BUT I still have the HOPE that I will, and if it “shows up” I will cautiously clasp it to my heart, but not with the neediness of no boundries.

In the meantime I enjoy the relationships that I DO have, rather than feel bitter or lonely because I don’t have a “relationship with a man” I try to focus on the wonderful friendships I DO have. I remember fondly the relationships that are physically gone, my husband and my step dad and I can “talk to them” inside my head, remember the things we did with joy and laughter.

It has been a LONG, DIFFICULT AND PAINFUL succession of losses since July 04 when my husband died. A lot of things that were previoiusly unresoslved losses and pains and insecurities have surfaced as well. There were things I found out about myself that I had been keeping “secret” from myself. My inability to set proper boundaries, the guilt I felt about setting boundaries within my family and close friends, and WHY I felt this guilt, and I expunged this guilt as inappopriate. I’ve looked deep in to the well of my own soul and seen the “spots” there that needed correction, and I am sure that over the course of my life I will find more, but I CAN ACCEPT THIS LESS THAN PERFECT PERSON, and LOVE HER.

I will not let the loss of the Ps, or the loss of my beloved family members either, take the HOPE and the enjoyment out of the rest of my life. I am the only one in control of my destiny. Only I can acheive my hopes and dreams, but if those hopes don’t come “true”—I won’t let it ruin the rest of my life either.

Right after my husband was killed, there was a medical student at the University of Arkansas in LIttle Rock who didn’t make the Olympic team that he had trained for his entire life. As a consequence of this “loss of his fondest dream” (loss of this ONE Hope) he stabbed his physician wife 48 times, then jumped out the window of a tall building and killed himself.

Obviously “he had some issues”—and he didn’t “deal well” with the LOSS of his ONE DREAM, he let it end his own life and that of his wife. We can see how stupid and terrible this was. We can see what a terrible loss it was, and over something that WE think he should have “accepted” the loss of that one dream to be on the Olympic team, and gone on with his life, and enjoyed the many many other talents and options that he had before him. WE don’t think that not making the Olympic team was anything close to a “reason” or “excuse” for killing his wife and then himself….but obviously at that moment HE did. His RAGE at her, at himself, at the world overcame him and pushed him over the brink.

Most of us, I would say would never never never contemplate such an action as he took, but though we eventually get through the anger and the RAGE at our loss, get over the feeling that we would LIKE to throttle our psychopathic abusers, we get over the tremendous grief and sadness, we quit the bargaining and get over the inappropriate and malignant HOPE that we can fix that situation–but if we stop short of acceptence that we CAN be happy, we CAN have dreams and HOPEs, maybe just not the dream of a “_________” (fill in the blank here).

Having worked with the spinal cord injured patients that I did for 5 years, I saw so many patients that had been so very physically active and now just one car wreck or one injury put them into a wheel chair for life, paralized either from the neck down or the waist down. It ended so many dreams for these people, it took away their independence, their sex life, their mobility—their dreams and hopes–but the “successful” ones didn’t continue to dwell on their losses, but to rejoice in their lives AS THEY WERE. The unsuccessful ones became bitter people who lived lives of utter despair who blamed their unhappiness on an accident that happened one day, or the doctors that couldn’t cure their problem, or on something or someone else—when all the time, JOY WAS THERE, waiting to embrace them, if they had only seen it, grasp it and taken hold of it. ACCEPT WHAT IS and find joy in spite of it in the things that we DO have.

I know, I have “preached another sermon” and the finger I point to others is only one, and the ones pointing BACK AT ME are THREE, but thhis sermon is pointed at ME just as much or more so than at anyone on the blog, because I know that I HAVE TO WORK ON KEEPING MY ACCEPTENCE OF WHAT IS, and continually NOT let myself siink into despair that I don’t have what is NOT POSSIBLE, because there is so much that IS POSSIBLE and I want that with all my heart.

To Bev, James, Oxy, Free,

Thanks for your words of encouragement, your poetry, and you wisdom.

I just told my sister: I keep close to the ground so there isn’t much chance of falling.

I think falling in Love involves a certain amount of naivete’. I don’t think I have that anymore.

Yes, Bev, it’s like a “punctured” ballon.
An empty balloon still looks hopeful… potential for something fun there. But a punctured balloon looks pretty pathetic. You can tell that it has already be stretched to the max and now it’s all shriveled and wrinkled and there are holes and tears in it. Looking at it, you don’t see much potential for fun. I guess that is how I feel right now.

If this is only a phase, I guess I can be thankful for that.

I know I still don’t feel good about me and I am waiting for a man to love me so I can feel good about myself.

I know this a TRAP.

I am still in it.


” I know this is a trap.” (Quote)

Recognizing that you are in a trap is the FIRST and BIGGEST step in getting out of the trap, Aloha.

Not recognizing that we are in a trap (denial) keeps us from even trying to get out of the trap. Maybe we even think that our “beautiful place” is paradise when in reality it is a TRAP–that imprisons us, like the Sultan’s sons were kept in a wonderful prison, complete with all the pleasures of the world, but the minute the Sultan died, his successor MURDERED all the Sultan’s sons who were so happy in their palaces, thinking they had everything in the world when they only had a plush prison, that was holding them until the time of their death. They never tried to escape this “paradise” because they did not know they were in prison, that they were TRAPPED life fish in a rain barrel and that as soon as their father died, their oldest brother would have them strangled.

I think about what might have been if they had not been so unaware that they were imprisoned. Wouldn’t they have tried to escape while there was still a chance? I believe they would have.

You recognize that AT THIS TIME you are not ready to trust and love another man yet—but you realize you are in a TRAP and you WILL GET OUT OF THIS TRAP, because though I have never seen your face, I KNOW YOU, I know what a strong woman you are, and that you will not forever remain in the TRAP. You will not stop until you break free from its clutches. You have too much to give and are too able to love not to love, but you will never NEVER love indiscriminately again, the man who is lucky enough to get you will have EARNED your trust, and will be WORTHY of your love.

I have observed as you have grown and blossomed, and are coming into full bloom of your strength and your power! I have NO DOUBT that you will get OUT OF THE TRAP. (((hugs))))

Dear AloaT, After the big drama is over and we are recovering, we are left with a big empty space. The Ps/Ns/Ss occupied so much of our space and energy and we are tired. We mourn the empty space and we feel depressed about it – but it is a blank canvas – we have a choice to fill it with something good, or do we just fill it up with anything? What are we going to do with the new space?

Wow-everyones posts are so inspiring.

I do find it strange that it has been only two months since I was told that he wanted to move many states away to be with a women. Two weeks after he told me, I told him he needed to leave. I remember those two weeks inbetween him telling me and him leaving. Those two weeks were a nightmare. It was so confusing and none of it made any sense. It was all so surreal and it felt like I was walking in a really bad dream. In the mornings i would wake up and beg to myself “please tell me I dreamt it!!!” And when I realized that I hadn’t, I spent the rest of the day trying not to cry and trying to shake it off. By the time night came I shook it off and slept, only to have it start all over the next day.

Was that only two months ago?

Now I know it wasn’t a dream. I know everything he told me was a lie. I know I made some big decisions based on those lies. I know what I am going to do to clean up the mess he left. I know he is a sociopath. I don’t know how extreme his symptoms are, but I also know that I don’t want to find out how much farther he can go.

I can’t believe that it was only two months ago that I was set free from the lie.

I love the new space. I love not being called multiple times a day asking where I am. I love doing what I want to, and not being judged for it. I love not being told what I have to do and how I should do it. I also love, not being lied to.

Of course in one month this will all change. The baby will come. I won’t get to do what I want. I will be a slave to the baby. I am so scared of postpartum. I am scared that because of what happened, I might go into a depression that I have yet to go into.

Oxdrover really stated it nicely in saying that we must enjoy what we have when we have it. Because it will be gone. The baby will be independent so quickly, that I need to enjoy it while he needs me. My independence that I have right now, will be gone in a month. So I need to enjoy that right now.

There is a lot to enjoy and appreciate in the space. It is the quite after the storm. It is completely unsettling at times. But I would prefer in the quite to have nothing else to do, but listen to the song of a bird singing. I”ll take that beautiful song over my crying, anyday.


I am not a mother but something tells me that the sound of your own baby crying isn’t as bad as a random baby in a store or on a bus. You will have the patience when you need it. I wish we all could see your baby. Is this our first baby on LoveFraud? The first one we are waiting for?

This is exciting to me. It gives me a little uplift, to be honest. Do you know if you are having a boy or a girl? Do tell! When is your due date? Are you in the US? I forgot where you are. You don’t have to answer my questions if you don’t want.

I am feeling a little better. I spoke to my man friend. He wanted to talk. He knew I was hurting and he was concerned about it. And he wanted to say he’s not ready for a relationship. Knowing what he has shared about his circumstances, I was wondering if he was kind of running on empty and he was. I was afraid I was too emotional and had too much pain and he said he thought my sensitivity was refreshing and he actually liked that about me. He said he just felt stuck like he couldn’t open up.

Aren’t we the perfect couple? HAHA

Strangely, I feel a little better right now.

Thanks to all of you for your support. Sometimes, I want to be the person that doesn’t need support anymore. I really am over the Bad Man. But.. I am not over losing myself and my hope. And sometimes, I feel overwhelmed by this loss.

I told the man I had been dating a little bit about Bad Man but I didn’t cry and it wasn’t a big drama or anything. I thought I was ready for dating because Bad Man doesn’t feel so dramatic to me anymore but what does feel upsetting is I know that though I may be over the Bad Man, I am a changed person.

It’s hard to date as a jaded person looking for signs of betrayal and bad behavior and being hyper vigilant all the time. Not too sexy, is it?

OxDover is right. I really do need a man who is willing to EARN my trust but many men state that they think this is not fair. HELLO? Why not? I am 39 years old. Don’t you think I have learned a thing or two about men by now? EXACTLY! That is why you have to EARN my trust.

XO to you all… Aloha

Dear Bird!!!

Your post was so positive and I am so happy for you, you have come so far in such a short time—I can’t believe it has only been a little while since you came to this blog!

Tell us all about the baby–what a wonderful thing! And he/she will have so many “aunties” and “uncles” that are rooting for him/her…and for you.

Don’t worry about the post-partum yet, it may happen and it may not…just remember get all the sleep you can! Focus on the fun parts and sing to the baby–yes they can hear you and the sound of your voice. I found that when mine moved around at night when I was trhing to sleep I could sing to them and they would quiet down and let me sleep. Sounds silly I know, but singing makes you feel more up even when you are down, try itand see if it works for you.


Earning trust isn’t a big deal I dont think, it just means that you start out and I don’t distrust you, I just don’t have every confidence in the world that you are trustworthy. As I deal with you (that is the generic “you”, not you-Aloha) you got + points for showing up on time, – points for chronic lateness, and + points for politeness and BIG – points for losing your temper or being rude, and you get the Big BOOT for lying.

What is so “hard” about earning my trust? Nothing except NOT BETRAYING IT. As long as you are trustworthy I will not distrust you, but I am not going to bet my life or my heart on your trustworthyness the first day I meet you…no matter WHO “you” are! DUH! And, if you betray me, show disrespect for me, YOUR LOSS FELLA! Outta my life and stay gone!

EArning trust is EASY really, it just means keeping your word, and “playing nice with others”—getting trust back after betraying it–now THAT’s a different story. LOL

Good for you Aloha!

Dear Donna,

This is a truly revealing post…..boy do I relate to the loss of my dreams…the injuries from family and so-called friends…. and the levels of pain! I don’t know what my future holds….but I do know what it will never hold again. I miss people of my past….but if they cannot be truly honorable I can’t be around them anymore. I can’t even take the small losses in life anymore…like the family member taking my daughters toys and video’s…like the money missing from my home (my daughters birthday money)…like the shady workmanship of a so-called professional….like the $250 taken from my pocket-book. Just a few small things and I cannot take it anymore! Those small things now feel as big as the BIG ONE. I cannot let alot of people in my life anymore because of this.

I used to be outgoing and very social. I am so afraid of being hurt again. But I thank you for all you have done for me and others.

Dear Trish,

I am sorry that you have had more betrayals. Of course they are “not as serious” as the BIG one, BUT—they are like SALT TO AN OPEN WOUND.

I found the exact same thing for quite some time, and still it does “burn” when people use me in even smaller ways now more than it ever did in the past.

The ONLY difference I can see now is that I AM setting boundaires more easily–I won’t say EASILY–but it is getting “easie-R” each time I do so successfully.

I think the pulling back from so many people (“I cannot let a lot of people in my life anymore because of this”) is a normal part of the healing process because we are so RAW until the wounds have time to scab over and heal so that they are not RAW any more and open.

The thing I found is that my STORE OF PATIENCE and toleration for “BS” is much more limited now than it was before the devestation last year.

The one year anniversary of me fleeing my home is coming up this week, and I realize how FAR I have come from that day “eons” ago–and it does feel like years and years, in some ways, and “yesterday” in others.

The progress made is wonderful and I know that, but there is still more to go, I am not “there” yet. My reserves or strenth are increasing, but still are LIMITED. Setting limits on how much time I spend with people who SUCK ON these limits of strength is a matter of survival for ME. I have to take care of ME first.

You can think of it like a serious illness…say Pneumonia. You are no longer running a fever, or coughing til you turn blue, but you are not able to go help your sister move into her new house…you haven’t recovered your strength. You aren’t still SICK, but recovering, rebuilding your strength a bit each day, but still not able to do heavy lifting.

We need that “rest and recovery” period where we don’t need the “set backs” —even small ones—-that SAP OUR STRENGTH. Pushing people back who sap your strength, even if they are well meaning, I think is necessary in our healing.

Good luck to you and (((BIG Hugs)))))

I haven’t posted in quite some time.. but occasionaly come to read the posts….. Yesterday I was given the news that my sociopath has left the area. for the past two years, I have lived in bondage. She had lived just mere 4 miles from me. Now, she is gone and so is the fear of running into her at the bank, the grocery store, whereever…… It’s over…. I feel closeure now that she is far away….. no one can understand this but you, the readers here. I think i’ll go out and have a beer, and look up at the sky and thank my God for blessing me with the strength to endure….. for listening to my pleas through my tears…. and for standing beside me for the past two years when everybody else thought I was crazy because I didn’t want to get in a relationship again, or had anxiety about driving down the road near my house.

I hope that all of you can eventually feel this feeling of release of fear. This is so big for me….. smiles…. baby steps, yes, but this was a leap.


What a relief. I live seeing the psycho regularly- and no such luck they leave. I have thought about changing my entire life,but it seems like such a concession though I might find a change liberating.I don’t know.

I wish I didn’t have to even consider moving b/c of a sociopath.

Welcome back Southernman. I was thinking about some of you recently, yourself and AptMgr who havent posted for a while, wondering how you are getting on. You must feel SO relieved at her departure and free of the thought of seeing her again. I remember you suffered terribly, but you sound so less troubled and more at ease in yourself. Thank Goodness, I breathe a sigh of relief for you!!

It’s a baby boy and he is due the second week of July:)

It’s been a while, but I have kind of kept up to date. I thought of changing my name to “Weepnomore”, as life has gotten somewhat better, as far as healing and moving on is concerned. It’s like I woke up one day, and something was missing. I realized that I didn’t hurt as much. I would have a reality check, but I didn’t have the pain associated with it. I read somewhere that if you can recall and it doesn’t hurt, you have healed. I think I’ve made it.

If I miss anything it’s the idea of a relationship. I can’t miss the abuse and the duplicitous lifestyle. And I found that by pining my hope on a mere man, I was setting myself up for a fall. I couldn’t be what he wanted, but he wasn’t willing to even try to be something for me. Reading all these stories kind of picks the scab off, but I don’t bleed anymore. If anything I bleed for the new ones posting and I wish I could take some of the pain until they are able to move on to this place. Something finally died in me and I don’t care anymore, and I don’t care that I don’t care. I haven’t shut up my “bowels of compassion”, but I would be the inept one to keep going back.

Since I last wrote, the man who came into my life wanting us to be friends and the one I truly believed was “sent” to me, has shown his true colors. I have uncovered so much about his lifestyle that it makes me sick to think I almost believed him. I guess we all have the idea that we are the one to finally help him change and our love will do the trick. That no one can love him like I can. Boy I sure fell off the turnip truck on that one.

I found out that when he had a construction business many years ago, the DA’s wife fronted it in exchange for sex. That was why he suggested we do the same with the money he owed me. That was his m.o. but I didn’t want to believe it. I found out yesterday that he apparently is still seeing her and she is probably still paying his bills. And I really believed I loved him. But he used every word out of my mouth against me to his advantage. I’m so turned off by him that now I wonder what I ever did see.

The part that has always bothered me was knowing how he lived and didn’t see anything wrong with it, but after reading all these posts I see that’s typical. What a sad commentary for a life lived.

But getting out means I no longer have to hear lies, half-truths which to me are whole lies, vague answers, etc. He’s now 60 and still playing his stupid little boy games. Again, I see the same thing here. I just never thought I’d end up being one of them. I wanted to do my life differently and here I am, with a story too. I think I’m more upset with me than him, for not seeing and believing without doing more checking. I sure have learned my lesson. I will proceed with caution in all areas. I don’t like the negative emotions he evoked and I just won’t go there. I sure feel so much better. Time really does heal all wounds and sometimes wounds all heels!

I found this web site some time ago, and it provided some insight into what I was going through at the time and started the healing process too.http://groups.msn.com/PSYCHOPATH/betweendevalueanddiscard.msnw
It has a lot of good reading and questions and answers on pertaining to all that is spoken of here.

But it sure is good to be on this side of the awful. I wouldn’t want to got through it again, but because I did, I’m much better off now than before. It helped me reach the level of independence I needed to survive for me. Instead of being broken and controlled, I was set free. I can only wish that for those just starting on that long road. I can’t describe the happenings to just anyone. But everyone here knows and we could tell each other’s story. I only ever wanted tradition and I got major dysfunction.

Good luck to all and blessings for a healed mind, heart and soul.

Hey, Apt/Mgr, I was just thinking about you in my reply to Southernman. How you doing? Good to see you much healed. Bless you Apt/Mgr, I remember you as one of the main people on here, when I first came on this site. (((Hugs)))


“I miss people of my past”. But if they cannot be truly honorable I can’t be around them anymore. I can’t even take the small losses in life anymore”

I know what you mean. There were some dysfunctional relationships that I needed to walk away from. Some of them very special people in my life. It’s like once you learn about what a toxic relationship consist of you began to see how for many years now. That we have allow ourselves to be used emotionally and mentally. I know how I started to see my own accountability in these dysfunctional relationships; one sorry to say is my own sister. Before learning about boundaries, I never knew just how many times my own sister violated my personal space and boundaries. Even when (this one was the last straw) I told her how much better I felt and came to understand about my ex and how I came to forgive her (ex). My sister’s reply was. No, I don’t believe that, because I can hear it in your voice! What? After the phone call I asked myself. Where was my validation? Where is my emotional support from my sister? And why? Does she believe that she (sister) knows me better then I know myself? I really can’t tell you just how much her reply hurt me. A week later I told my sister how I felt about our relationship and guess what? Her reply was that she is “done with me”. LOL! Great why? Because so many times has she pull out this “done with me” card. I now know that she knows just how much this statement hurts me. So many times before I told her I was sorry (many times I didn’t even know what I was sorry about). Well this time she IS “done with me”. Because I will hold her to her word! I am sorry that she is “done with me” but I can’t do anything about that because I can only be responsible for my actions/choices and never for the choices/actions of others. This was a very hard lesson for me to learn, but one I have come to learn well!


“hope that all of you can eventually feel this feeling of release of fear. This is so big for me”.. smiles”. baby steps, yes, but this was a leap.”

Yes I do know how that feels..

I call it my buffer zone (miles apart from them)
And how great it feels! Oh lord, how great it feels!

“bird says:
It’s a baby boy and he is due the second week of July:)”

Great New!

Cool! Both of my sons are born in July!

I have just had a horrible shock! I went on the website suggested by Apt/Mgr and was reading an article that describes my mother perfectly as Narcissistic too. I knew that my father was Narcissistic, and my mother had schizophrenia, but I never reckoned on finding out that her narcissistic behaviour is what ruined my self worth and self esteem, I just thought she suffered from mental illness. I could just cry, they have both ruined my life and I have grown up for the past 55 years thinking it is all my fault.!!!! I feel really upset and angry now.

I have had years of therapy on and off and NOT ONE therapist has ever diagnosed my parents as a Narcissist. Even my brother (deemed as the the golden child by my mother) who is a high flying pschotherapist does not realise that my mother is a Narcissist. I have finally uncovered the key to my past and I would not have found it, unless I had the encounter with the N and came here.

Many years ago I bought a book by Victoria Secunda ‘Why you and your mother cant be friends’ and I wrote lots of notes in it about how my mother treated me, what she said, how she devalued me against my brother and how she denied it all etc etc. When I went on the MSN website I saw the article about Narcissistic Mothers and I nearly skipped past it, thinking that my mother wasnt a Narcissist, then I thought I would read it – and as I started reading through the article, almost every explanation ties in with my notes. Just as I thought I had got to grips with all the shocks I have had over the last year, this has been a secret for all this time.

Beverly, I definitely know what you mean about the “shock of it”–I had deluded myself that I had this wonderful friendship with my mother…she and my best girlfriend have been a trio for 20+ years. But it was DENIAL, because I just didn’t “notice” the times she had verbally abused and punished me when I didn’t go along with her enabling of first her brother a CERTIFIED MONSTER PSYCHOPATH, and then my own P-son. It was only this last debacle that opened my eyes and made the things that I had pushed aside and “forgotten about” or “just blown off” that made me see that this was a pattern throughout not only her life but the family for GENERATIONS.

In fact, my mother had NOT been an enabler until my grandmother died, then she did a 180 degree turn about and became this enabler from hell.

With this last time I have called her a “Psychopath by proxy” because she did the bidding of my P-son to discard and devalue me, to let him manipulate her to manipulate me. She lied to me, used and abused….and I think would have been plenty happy if he had gotten out of prison while she was still alive—the fact that I have done my best to see that he STAYS in prison for the rest of his life sentence and gets NO parole ENRAGES her so much that I think she could have cheerfully killed me in one of her rages.

She even looked at me what that LOOK that the Ps have when they are enraged the last time I really had a conversation about this with her.

When we start healing from the P encounter, I think a LOT of things that have been “hidden” in the back ground start to surface and we start to have to deal with these things to in order to completely move on. They are kind of like piles of cat poop that we have covered up or swept under the rug and we don’t even notice them any more, but when we “clean house” with the rest of what has happened, we start to “smell them” and realize that we need to “clean up that mess” as well.

Until I stopped and looked at how I had felt, trying to please my mother “forever” and never being able to quite pull it off, I think all these things contributed to my vulnerability to the Ps. I have always felt that male children were much more valued in our family and felt that I couldn’t be all I wanted to be because I was the “wrong sex”—females were not quite as good as males. The male carried on the name, etc. In actual fact, my grandfather (mom’s dad) for his place and time was not as male oriented as his peers. He wanted his daughter to get an education, etc. He actively tried not to show “favoritism” between his two children. I was the “favored” grandchild simply because mom and I lived with them until she remarried when I was 3, and I bonded to them, went with my grandfather everywhere like a puppy, and there were no other grandchildren til I was 10-11 and they were states away and visited rarely. So I was more the child of their old age when they had the finances and leisure to spend more time with me than when my mom and her brother were growing up in post depression rural poverty.

I am NC with mom now except for a rare business conversation, but no longer worry about pleasing her, or feel responsible for taking care of her (I’m an only child) My boys are now also NC with her except for the P who still writes her and wants money, which I think she is probably sending him some along. I don’t even care any more, whether she does or not. My son C had told her thought that if she kept sending his P brother money he would go NC and that is why he has done so. That sort of blew me away, I can’t evenf imagine that my son, as close as he always was to his grandmother and as much as he held her up as a “Christian Icon” for him to realize so quickly how toxic her enabling is/was and how she has treated not only me, but him as well. She went from the pedestal to the pits in only a few weeks as far as he was concerned. (shaking head here) I knew how badly she had betrayed and hurt me, but it didn’t dawn on me for one minute that my son was that wounded and also that AWARE of why.

My adopted son, she discarded because he was “not blood” about two or three months before the big “blow up”—and though he doesn’t feel too harshly toward her, I know it hurt, as he has been so good to her and respected her so much before all this, now he only speaks to her on business as well. He is always polite, but he doesn’t trust her either.

Sometimes I feel like an “orphan” but I was fortunate that I did have a wonderful and supportive step father that I loved dearly and who encouraged me throughout my life and HE WAS PROUD OF ME, and I knew that I pleased him and that he loved me and knew I loved him.

oxdrover I am beginning to think I should of logged into this site with the name henryetta instead of henry. I read everything you post and read everybodys sadness here. I changed my phone numbers today, because it hurt’s when he call’s and it hurst’s when he doesn’t. I am better ox, especially with the anxiety, good days and bad days. I am so tired of hurting, I try to look a day ahead but just seem to focus on the past. He stole my dream’s and used them to his advantage. and yes ox I did volunteer to be his victim, most of the anger I feel is at me. What a fool am I, oh well. I keep thinking of some good friends I have that were married for 55 years, the only good happy relationship I know of. He sat down one evening and died. She (his wife) literally cried for one year. Her daughter would come over and sleep with her and hold her hand. It has been 2 years scince he died, she is going on with life. Wouldnt it be wonderfull to have had that to cry about? I should be so happy he is out of my life, I wish I could let go of whatever it is that has me so down…………

I keep doubting myself and thinking, what could I have done differently, what can i do to get him back. and then i re-read the trait’s of a sociopath. it is him to a T. and he has borderline personality disorder. I fell for the pity, the tears, the suicide threats, I tried to rescue him, to fix him. I better be careful what I wish for or he mite just come back. lol

Dear Henry,

You are going through the “normal” stages of the grief process. Google Grief process and read about it, it is the emotions we all go through trying to come to terms with our loss. But in many ways it is WORSE than a “normal” grief process because we participated in our loss, we berate ourselves as well as the Ps.

My husband died in a plane crash in July of 04 here at our little airport and farm–and accidnt, not his fault. We were happy and it was so sudden and tragic and WOW it hurt, but I didn’t beat myself up for it, I didn’t even beat him up for it, he died doing what he loved—how wonderful for him, and he didn’t suffer much, so darn, it COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE. Sure, I cried and cried and got depressed, but that is normal grief. But I felt so bereft that I fell for a P who was looking for another “respectable wife” to cheat on! I fell hook line and sinker–boy did he take me for a ride when I was at my lowest ebb, feeling old, fat, undesirable, lonely, etc etc. and in many ways it was worse than the crash because I FELT USED, DIRTY, because HE DIDN’T CARE THAT HE HURT ME or used me as just another one of his harem. Fortunately I caught on before I married him, but it was still a big CRASH, when I was down anyway—

The main thing thatyou must MAKE YOURSELF DO, is to keep NO CONTACT. I don’t care if he is bleeding from self inflicted wounds on your front step, call 911 and close the door. He may try all kinds of things to get you to come back to him when he NEEDS you again, and I will “bet the farm” he does, they seem to be like coyottes, they eat some of the carcass, then go make another kill, but evntually come back to the previous one for a snack. Don’t fall for ANYTHING he does, even suicide gestures or “attempts”—it is all about CONTROLING YOU. He can only do it if YOU LET HIM. So put on your “Big boy britches” and straighten up your back bone and NO CONTACT. You CAN do it Henry, and ONLY you can in the end “save” yourself. YOu can’t save him, fix him or help him. We will be here to support you, but it is kind of like a woman in labor, you have to do the pushing and bear the pain, but we will “hold your hand” and coach you. Hang in there.

Aw, Beverly, sweet…this realization must be really painful.

But, I think by finally putting a name and a definition to the abuse you suffered as a child, from father AND mother, you’ve had your own…”AHA!!” moment. It was never your fault. Ever. You were a lovely, innocent, child as you are now a lovely woman. And it seriously disturbs me thinking about other lovely children being abused every single frikkin day. I don’t have children myself, but I still have immense compassion & empathy for them. As for the pain you suffered when you were a wee girl.

Take your time to assimilate this new found knowledge. I think learning your mom is a N, will finally deliver you from the inner pain you’ve carried for so many years. You will be liberated and free, knowing you are not responsible for the harm a person did to you. As OxD says..my prayers & thoughts are with you. **HUG**

Dear Beverly,

I can totally relate to you. My father is an N, which I did not realize until my encounter to ex P. I have been NC with my ex P for more than 2 months. Strangely, I do not think about him at all.

All I think is about my upbringing. My parents. My therapist says that my father has traits of N. When I told that to my mother, she got very upset. She thinks that my father is normal. My brother and sister are both mentally ill, and I myself suffer very low self-esteem. Given the fact, she somehow thinks that she and my father did something wrong, but she DOES NOT understand what really went wrong. Her very basic thought is that her kids became mentally ill, because they think too much.

I remember she once said that, she was aware that my father abused us, kids. And she still remembers I asked her to divorce my father when I was very little. None of my siblings likes him. My father once had a girlfriend, wasted much money my grandmother had, still drinks too much. We lived with my grandparents (my mother’s parents) who were wealthy and helped my parents raise four kids. She did not have a financial problem. So I asked her why she stayed with him. She says, because he is a decent man who helped her take care of her aging parents! Yes, he did in a way, but he is an N and abused his kids!! She did not protect us from him.

Finally, I have come to conclusion that my mother is not normal, either. She is not a P but I do not know what she really is. I am NC with my father, and have been wondering if I should go NC with my mother, too. I will see my therapist tomorrow to discuss this issue.

When I think about my upbringing, I just feel my life was destined to go miserable. I have worked so hard last 20 years to fix myself, but I realized that I was damaged so deep inside.

Dear chaos, I only found out in the last 6 months my father was an N. He was VERY haughty, he would make me sit as young kid whilst he lectured me on how he had plumbed the house, landscaped the garden, he made me listen to hours of OPERA and when as a teen I visited him for weekends, he never took me anywhere, I sat in the house the whole time whilst he made me a captive audience to his achievements. He also had a kind of OCD perfectionism, everything had to be ‘just so’ and everyone walked on eggshells around him.

He discarded my mother having moved onto someone else and when I collected his photos last year (his 3rd and last partner died) (he had never worked but lived off a series of women) there were 7 albums full of holiday snaps with only him and his partner. Even at his funeral 10 yrs ago, unknown women turned up!! When I was young, I just thought he was very arrogant and a ‘know all’ that was what I thought of him. When my mother put me in boarding school aged 6, for 4 years, he never contacted me, and I could not understand why he acted as though I didnt exist.

When I met the N in 2006, within the first hour he told me he had deep passion for OPERA and of course I knew alot about opera, so we had an immediate bonding!!! I sensed this was a red flag, that I was meeting someone similar to my father, but I discounted it, thinking, well no, this man appears very different from my father. But their coldness, detachment were all the same, because I came to realise that they reason I felt comfortable with the N, was that he WAS just like my father. Infact the N, said he wished he had met my father.

I never thought my father was responsible for my low sense of worth, because he wasnt there, but now I realise that both my parents were instrumental in different ways. My mother was a critic, but she did it so cleverly, by making me the troublemaker, the bad one between me and my brother. Both my parents are dead now, but I realise that in my life I have felt like nothing and now I know why, when I have achieved something good, it means nothing to me, I have been quite creative and I have settled for very little, because that is the script I was fed.

Dear JaneSmith, Up until recently I never considered myself to be an abused child, because neither of my parents hit me, (although my mother attacked me when she was in the worst part of her schizophrenia). But I realise that by abandonment and neglect and criticism, I have been quite abused. I always felt really alone and was prey to other abusers.

dear donna,amr, oxdrover, rperk, aloha, henry, james, beverley, free, trish and everyone else on here !
THANK YOU FROM the bottom of my heart for all your well wishes, and wonderful words of comfort.
I am feeling better – the UNDERSTANDING I am getting here is unbelievable and really does help a great deal.
I still feel very empty and I cannot get him out of my head.
I know it all – I know its a waste of energy, and time, and im tired. Very tired. Sometimes I think he is NOT a sociopath …… he doesnt contact me, he doesnt annoy me… I wish he would because then I would get the satisfaction to tell him exactly what I think, CLOSURE.
He is in another state. He is with the “other woman”, and I am left here in torment, and he is having a wonderful time. I have visions of kicking his head in (and I am far from violent!, even though he accused me of that often). I really want revenge – and I know that the “only revenge is to get on with my life”.. dont you think I want that ??? .. I want to scream in his face, and then he can call me any name he wants to. how he can just walk into the sunset without even taking a look over his shoulder. I am so damn angry, and nothing I do or say helps me, oh, except for these posts. I dont feel so alone, misunderstood or crazy.
Thank you , thank you, thank you.
Rina x
and amr.. i will be in contact…..i cant wait to speak with you.
thank you. How do you feel after 2 years NC ? It feels like I will never get there.

I found out recently from my sister that our GP diagnosed my mother with a personality disorder many years ago when we were kids. Apparently, he refered her to a psychiatrist ( not knowing what else to do I suppose) and gave HER the referal letter which she promptly opened when she got home. After reading it, she marched down to the surgery and hurled abuse at him!
I do vaguely remember something about it but of course I was brainwashed into thinking he was a ‘bad’ doctor.
What a pity this doctor could not have told us when we were old enough to understand. It would have saved both of us years of torment and guilt, always being blamed for her behaviour.

Wow, gang, some heavy stuff, but I think because we have fallen prey to all this is BECAUSE we got a dose of it as kids from one direction or another.

Chaos, my mother is an ENABLER OF TOXIC PROPORTIONS and I have “dubbed” it a “Psychopath by proxy” because her behavior allows the abuse from the P to continue. In my son’s case, since he was in jail, she did it FOR HIM as he directed.

My mom isn’t a psychopath or even an N, she is an ENABLER and without an enabler 99% of the abuse wouldn’t happen is my opinion.

Your mom didn’t protect you from your father, so she “enabled” him to continue with his abuse. Sometimes the courts become the enablers demanding that the child be made to visit the P or N parent.

RINA, just get down on your knees and thank God that he is GONE, God has given you the gift of getting him out of your life! MORE IMPORTANT OUT OF YOUR CHILD’S LIFE!!!

Yea, rage and scream and get the anger out, but I think sometimes the very GIFTS that God gives us, AT THE TIME we think they are not what we want and we are angry about it or think it is bad, but if you turn it around and look at the situation—THEY ARE WONDERFUL GIFTS. because they are WHAT IS BEST FOR US and in your case BEST FOR YOUR BABY! As lolng as he is satisfied with that other woman, he will leave you and your baby alone and not hurt either of you.

When I lost my job at the college which I loved because they cut the position to part time, I cried and cried because I had put my entire life into that job and it meant so much to me. I saw it as a terrible wound, but then I took a part time position with insurance benefits and got to spend 5 days a week home with my family the year before my husband died, and the year my dad was diagnosed with cancer and I was there for them, and I am SO GLAD I got to spend that time with my husband and my dad before they died. What LOOKED LIKE A HORRIBLE THING to me was a BLESSING FROM GOD. I would never have quit that job I loved, and so would have lost all those prescious days and hours with my husband before his death and I was there to comfort my dad when he was diagnosed and to help him through his illness, and his own grief.

Look back at your own life and see things that have happened that at the TIME you thought were “bad” and then it turned out it was really a blessing? I bet you can find some. I can count them on my fingers and have to move to my toes to even get most of them counted that have happened in my life.

So, yea, you are angry at him for being such a heartless creep, but BUT BUT, he is GONE, be thankful, and then scream your anger or post your anger here! LOL (((hugs))))

I feel sick. I have just accounted for my latest conversation with my P (ex-boyfriend) in the forum “Differentiating the narcissist from the psychopath”. You can read it there, if you like. So I’ll cut this short.
As I wrote in the other forum I am pretty sure that my P has, among other aquantainces, deceived me with a young female student of his.
Come to think of it, he has on several occasions asked me, if I thought there could be such a thing as a happy incestuous/pedofile relationship? I found that to be an odd question – especially since he knows that my former brother in law molested me (even if it was in the light category) when I was a child.
Now I also remenber that his former girlfriend – she, who committed suicide, had been seriously sexually abused by her father. Could it be that she did this because my ex at that time had shown indications that he might be a pedofile?
I have always thought that he was wonderfull around kids. His whole being seems to reach out to them when some of them passes in the street or whatever.
I know he has been looking into some strange sexsites on his computer, where older people mix with younger ones fx. I won’t even tell you the names of these sites.
He has time after time spoken about the beauty of young firm bodies.
Boy, I hate this. He could not perform sex properly with me and at one point he gave up.
Yes, by now I believe he was right when he told me that he was not erotically attracted to me. I am 44. He enjoys the younger one’s and though one might say that this doen’t exactly make him a pedofile, his interest in this subject turns my blood cold.

In my book that interest does make them pedophiles. My psycho stated he dumper a woman b/c he knew “later on” he’d want to date her daughter. He made comments about when this and that child “was”legal”…not to me, but to his exwife. He stopped saying those thing when I shut him down immediatedly.

He’s a pervert Sorrow, mine is too. Sex is more than “bodies” as you know…their interest is complete objectification.

Thanks for thinking of me. I’ve found my children, cats, fish and those whom I’ve not had the pleasure are kinder and gentler than those I’ve given my all to. But I hope you are well. I wish I could meet with all that I read of here. I am saddened that so much pain and disillusionment are the common denominator. Sure shot a lot of theories I had. I thought people were people and men were men.

I’ve found for me that the really weird started once sex came into the picture. Reading Sorrow’s post says that, too. I was cherished, adored, cared for, prior to sex and that was the time frame of my and my husband’s “courtship”. We wanted to be chaste so as to please God and that’s not to say we weren’t into petting, but back 40 years ago, for someone like me, that was even a lot. I wasn’t introduced to sex until I was around 20. That was 38 years ago. I had no idea you could do that with that. I was very sheltered and came from an unenlightened era. One didn’t even hear the word pregnant in mixed company. So I virtually knew next to nothing. Once I got married and we consummated our love, I thought it was the greatest happening ever. To me, it strengthened our bond. To my husband it meant nothing but sex.

That I have found to be more true than not. Shortly after marriage, the anger started. Very subtly but there. It would escalate, then he would apologize and say, “I’m sorry, if you are”. I didn’t realize it at the time, but he was setting the groundwork for some sort of mind control. Then there would be sex afterwards, so I was constantly getting mixed messages. I was hated, then loved. My mind was so messed up, that I didn’t know who or what I was. It was breaking me down, emotionally and mentally, not to mention the stress it was causing on my physical health. Constant tension. No kinds words unless the occasion called for it or I was in the hospital. So much chaos and confusion. And all through that, being called on to perform. There was no passion. Just lots of negative emotion. And there are some who question as to why I’m where I’m at today.

And that is why I was left so vulnerable when I came out to work. Met this gorgeous man who noticed me. I thought I can’t be all bad if this good looking man sees something in me. Sure he did. I was just someone to prey on. Turned out I wasn’t as weak as he thought I was, even though he did exploit me. And that didn’t happen until a year after we met and I confided in him that I found him sexually appealing and I didn’t want that to interfere with our friendship. That’s all we had. He was my insurance agent, and self proclaimed friend. Long story. But when I confided in him, instead of being a gentleman and saying we will be careful of our talk and such, he took that one phrase and ran with it.

He taunted me and kept tempting me and asking me what I wanted to do with him. He just had me on fire and all I wanted to do was touch him. I did and almost had sex, but “something” prevented me from going there. But that was all it took to tear down whatever barrier was between us. He took that little moment in time and built a mountain out of it and played on it to get money out of me. It was emotional rape and I didn’t know what to do at that time to stop it.

He played all sorts of games and it all led to mind control and emotional blackmail. I fell for it. But I started looking behind the scenes as to what sort of man this was. I thought he was my knight etc., but he became a knightmare. I came so close but just couldn’t totally let go. Since I’ve found out a lot about him, I know why. I guess it was my spirit keeping me from making another drastic mistake.

I think when I told him I was sexually attracted to him, he figured I viewed sex like he did. Not so. I just wanted to consummate what to me was the love I felt. But I’ve found out he has been a swinger the most of his life. He’s had 4 wives and cheated on all of them. He’s best friends with two gays and that left a lot of questions around town. He doesn’t pay his bills and uses other women to do that. Like me. He wanted to exchange sex for the money he owed me. I told him I had had lots of sex in my life, but I needed money. I think he has a very dark side from things he said and had I gotten with him, it’s hard to say what he would have tried to talk me into. As they say, familiarity breeds contempt. That’s pretty much what I feel right now, since I’ve finally learned who the real man is.

I went through the horrible jealousy for a time, imagining him with all the others and I wanted to be one of them. That was way before. Now I get ill thinking of him out doing all these women. He could have a disease that has been dormant. But the bottom line is he can’t be trusted. Actually what I’ve had to do is turn myself against him. That comes hard for my nature, but I have had to finally admit that he is a danger to my sense of well being and it’s okay for me to say that. He’s done this to all women, but I keep having to say, why me. So now I’m a statistic, and have a story to tell.

But I like the idea of no contact. It’s like having total control, even though I’ll never find out that it bothers him. He’ll just move on to his next victim. This is a small town but we don’t run in the same circles so I can avoid him. As I picture him with other married women and doing to them what he did to me, I don’t wish him well. I wish impotence on him for the rest of his life! And sad to say, my eyes are now opened and reality isn’t always pretty.


Yes, you were abused, neglected, abandoned as a child. And ALL of us know that verbal abuse especially can hurt the same or worse than physical abuse. And if you’re a sensitive man/woman, those cruel words pierce the heart like a knife. Causing severe damage. Life long damage.

I knew even as a 5 year old child, my bio-father was just damn wrong! He didn’t make any sense to me. My mother was the one who provided for all our wants and needs. Feeding us when we were hungry, comforting us when we had boo-boos, caressing us at night to help us sleep. My bio-father? His favorite place to be was on his beloved couch watching his beloved tv for hours & hours, even days! He used my mother for a place to live, eat, and sleep. He was also verbally and physically abusive to her, but my mom is a scrappy fighter and she would fight back. Which I realize now was a mistake and she should of just left him, but that’s for her to think about, not me. She DID finally leave him and as I said in another thread, was the happiest day of my life. My Psychopathic father died last year from lung cancer. He was still in prison where he has been for the last 15 years. I never visited him, nor did my 2 sisters. As Alohatraveler says…”He was a Bad Man”…When my mother told me about his death, I cried. I was having a very vulnerable day anyway, so the tears flowed quite easily. I cried over the man he could have been, the man who loved epic movies and classical music. The man who was an excellent machinist, but chose to be a bum, a loser. That’s who I cried over. Not the evil psychopath he was for all of his wasted life.

My mother’s not perfect. She can be sarcastically mean sometimes and I eventually put a stop to that years ago by candidly stating to her that it’s not right, fair to say mean things to me and she needs to stop it right now! She has because I placed boundaries before her and confronted her regarding her words to me. My mother loves her children and grandchildren very much. That I do know.

I didn’t write my experience for attention, to distract you from the pain you going through right now. I wrote it to show you that I’ve been where you are. That I’ve felt exactly what you feeling now and what you felt then. Of course, you are your own unique person with your own unique gifts, talents, qualities, life experiences that are different from mine. But..seeing as we are both human beings, basically with the same wants & needs & desires, we are in this together. We have journeyed the same roads, the same paths emotionally. Therefore I can honestly say that the incredible disullisionment in your childhood and into your adulthood can be overcome. You are too beautiful, too strong, too smart, too important to succumb to the suffering of yesterday. It’s over, Beverly, and as you and everyone else on this compelling website have written, we are all worthy of love, respect, consideration, kindness, compassion. What we give back in positive, caring energy will return to us threefold. I truly believe that as it has happened to me, and continues to happen.

Be good to yourself, sweet. Because you are a wonderful woman. **HUG**

Jane that is a wonderful post…very moving, and very true. Thank you.

Just another thought…to those here, when you initiate no contact, do they hear you loud and clear or do they still try to bait you? I think the most frustrating feeling I have going through this life is not having someone to belong to who doesn’t want to intimidate, manipulate, exploit, use me, etc. I only ever wanted someone to share.

P.S. to Sorrow, If you are interested sometime, Google fetishes, and read of all the different avenues some take to get turned on. That really freaked me out, knowing that someone who looks like they are totally on the up and up, has this other side. I’m not a prude by any means, just prudent, but it sure would take someone much different than myself to want to go there. I think that’s the dark side of life and I want light in my life.

Reading this post and the accompanying comments was a revelation. There are people who KNOW what I’m going through and what I’m feeling.

On Sunday 1 June I discovered that the man I met 18 months ago, fell in love with and who moved in with me last October is a psychopath who embezzled and defrauded many people, used who knows how many women and who conned a woman into marrying him while he was still living with me.

He is in prison now, found guilty of fraud, and that’s how I discovered his true nature. I visited him on Sunday and while waiting to see him fell into conversation with a woman. We talked for some time before discovering we were there to see the same man – her husband of three months, my live-in boyfriend. She is pregnant with their child.

I subsequently spoke to one of his sisters and we unravelled numerous awful hurtful lies. His wife and sister have vowed to cut him off and I am pressing fraud charges against him.

I still find it hard to believe how he infiltrated every aspect of my life; vowed undying love, sent me loving text messages, picked out baby names for our future children and told me over and over how happy he was to be a part of my life.

Family and friends are supportive but they don’t really understand how I feel. I feel like this psychopath raped my life. I am full of rage. I want to break his bones and cause him neverending pain. People mean well when they say I will get through this but that infuriates me even more. I know I’ll get through it, I’m a strong woman, but I’m feeling rage and pain now.


I only discovered this site a few days ago. I met my sociopathic ex husband 12 years ago. I slowly started to realise there was something wrong with him 5 years ago. Until then, i thought everything that had happened was my fault. I was obviously such a bad person that I deserved to be beaten up, lied to, cheated on etc, etc etc. I know now that I was a perfect victim for him because of my total lack of self esteem. This lack was caused by my pathetically inadequate mother.

I understand exactly how you feel and how everybody else feels who posts on this forum. I have felt how you feel. I know it is infuriating at this point when people tell you you’ll get through it. It’s totally impossible at this point to ever be able to envisage that day coming.

I am a lot further along the road than you are. I’m not completely healed yet, but I’m most certainly getting there.

The best advice I can give you is to stay with this forum to help you through. I had nobody, absolutely nobody to help me through and my recovery has been much protracted because of that. I have never read posts like these. All the people on here are obviously highly intelligent and very articulate. I wish I’d found them years ago.

No-one can help you more than those who have been through the same things as you.

So come here every day. Cry, rage, scream. Do whatever you need to do. No-one will judge you. No-one will tell you that you’re mad/weird/overreacting etc.

Much love.

Dear All,

I am a new member as of today but, of course not new to the damage and destruction of loving a sociopath. I don’t even know where to begin with my story. I’ll start from the beginning (boy, I can’t believe I’m blogging).

Anyway, I’ve been in and out of this crazy relationship for about a year now. It was wonderful in the begin, of course. In fact, I nicknamed him Mr. Wonderful.

Slowly but surely the controlling stuff started to enter the relationship. He’d say things like, “it’s okay or nice that you do those things now but, when you’re my woman I don’t want you to do this or that.” I being a strong single mom, I thought how nice someone who wants to take care of me and wants me. If any of you have ever had a pet, I compare this period to “Breaking” them. He would pick and demean everything I said and did. Again, I thought awe . . . he is making me the woman he wants me to be. Oh and did I fail to mention, he used religion and would say how I needed to be “obedient” and a woman should be submissive.

Anyway, I BOUGHT it hook line and sinker. So here I was under his control and oh so happy to have a man who was really in to me. I had to check in and let him know my whereabouts at all times and if I was somewhere I should be I’d have hell to pay. This went on forever but eventually I got use to it and again being the strong woman (or at least I thought I was) I dealt with it but I also made him check in and do the same thing. I thought I was exercising control as well, when really he didn’t mind checking in because that meant he knew where I was at all times.

So we move in together and we are talking marriage and a future. I and my two boys move into his place and almost immediately, he starts picking my kids apart and telling me that he wouldn’t allow his kids (he has two boys, as well) to do the things my kids do. At any rate, my boys (16 and 17) wanted no part of this and begged me to allow them to move in with friends temporarily. (I am so ashamed of this part of my life). I allow this man to alienate me from my very own children. He was in heaven when they left (he didn’t want to share me with anyone). I stopped talking to friends and family. In February, my mother and sister came to check on me and the kids and were very disappointed in me and my behavior. Everyone who was dear to me couldn’t believe what I was doing and how I was living. But, I was happy as a lark that this man “LOVED” me.

Finally, in March I’ve just about had enough and missed my kids so much. So we start looking for apartments for me and my boys. We make an agreement that I will spend time with the boys after school and in the evening but then spend my nights with him.

So I mentioned that he had children earlier, his oldest son (16) and my son play on the same basketball team and that is how we met. Anyway, through the relationship I always thought that he and his “so-called” ex-wife had an interesting relationship. They would talk everyday and seem too nicey nicey for ex’s. So I ask, “why do you feel you need to take care of her and your obligation is to the kids not her.” Boy did that piss him off. “She is the mother of my children and how can you be so selfish, I spend the majority of my time with you but, you are upset because I call her and care about my kids.” Needless to say, he made me feel like pond scum and as if I had done something wrong and so, I would skirt around the issue and try not to get upset when he was doing things for her and the kids.

In April, he took me on a day trip to this spa and we had a great time. It was wonderful and what made it even more special was that it was his weekend with the kids but, he didn’t go pick them up (the so-called ex-wife) was pissed and I thought, how great he is putting me 1st.

Well the next week he tells me that he needs to be there for his kids and so his so-called ex is moving in with the kids. I am devastated of course and asking him doesn’t she have someone else she can depend on and what does that mean for us. He gets upset and again tells me how selfish I am and I am asking him to choose between me and his children.

It is the end of April and the wife and kids are do to move in on May 1st. I’ve accepted the fact and we create a “3 year plan” stating that when his oldest son leaves for college, we will be free to be together and I just need to wait and be faithful until then. Anyway, he isn’t as available as he use to be and he is telling me that he needs to spend more time with the kids and so he is spending the night at the ex-wife’s home (please say it with me, STUPID). So here I am waiting and willing to deal with him moving his wife back into his home and him seeing me when he can. All the while, he is telling me it is for the kids and he doesn’t want her and she doesn’t want him she just wants what is best for the kids. Early in our relationship we exchange email passwords and so one day I send him an email but he didn’t reply quick enough and so I get into his email to see if he even received it and what do I find? An email from his so-called ex-wife saying how she loves him and calling him honey. I was a mess and I mean a MESS.

I would pick up his calls and I would respond to his emails. I knew he had plans that evening and I still had a key to his place and still had clothes there. So I drove over to his place right after work (thinking he wouldn’t be there) but, he was. I walked in and gathered my things without any explanation and gave him back his key. He was confused and couldn’t understand why.

Unfortunately, we attend the same church and so I see him Sunday and he asked to speak with me. I return a few more items and tell him what I discovered in his email and ask him to leave me alone. I LEFT – I was so . . . hurt. Anyway, he continued to call for about two weeks straight and finally the last week the calls decrease. He calls me at work one day and I like a DUMMY, I answer. He is telling me that he can’t live without me and he isn’t going to let the wife and kids move in, how he wants to marry me. He pulls me right back in.

Now we are up-to-date, it was yesterday that he once again starts talking about how his kids need him and everyone is telling him that he needs to do what is best for the kids. I’m upset and now he has conditioned me to feel guilty when he talks about the kids and how they need him.

Remember, I told you our children play basketball together and so I decide to email his ex-wife to say, “I’d like to talk to you about Danny and us. I want us all to be happy and if I am keeping you from your happiness please let me know.” He calls shortly after pissed and saying “How dare you email her, why would you want to upset her like that, I told her we weren’t seeing each other anymore and so when she calls you better tell her that we are not seeing each other. I was speechless, he finally somewhat admits that he has been
lying to me and to her by telling me she knows we are together and telling her we are not together.

Now, if that wasn’t enough – I still want to be with him. PLEASE HELP ME. Stop the ride, I want off. HELP!!!

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