Here’s more proof that total No Contact is the way to recovery. A new study finds that continuing to follow a former romantic partner on Facebook after breaking up makes it harder to move on. Read:
Study: Stalking your ex on Facebook is bad for you, on ZDNet.com.
Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.
kim:
Thank you once again for mentioning the intimacy push/pull that you did in an earlier post to me. This is very interesting to me as I experienced the push/pull very intensely. It was so obvious he was doing this to me because he would be what I thought was genuine and would reach out to me and tell me he wanted to see me or take me somewhere and then when the time came, he would ignore me. It may also mean he is just a bastard, but there has to be more to it than that. This really does explain it. You say that they crave intimacy and he kind of exuded that…he really was cuddly and loved to cuddle and hug, but I could tell he could only take so much and of course, he controlled the amount.
Thank you kim, for your insight.
Kim, there is also the suspicion that testosterone itself makes men more prone to psychopathy in the first place. I know that with my son Patrick he was an EXCELLENT kid until the testosterone rage hit him at puberty and he did a 180 degree turn.
I think that REAL “BPD” which is more often diagnosed in women where PPD is in men is pretty much the female version of PPD, BUT I also think that many kids or young adults are dx wit BPD that is not what I think is REAL BPD I think it is the result of poor parenting and abuse (especially sexual abuse) and the SYMPTOMS and BEHAVIOR are similar enough to REAL BPD that they get tagged with the diagnosis but those kids/young women who exhibit those symptoms as a result of abuse CAN BEHELPED to learn new ways of coping and living normal and good emotional lives, but the females who are “REAL” BPDs are actually and should be labeled PPD because they are UNCURABLE just like a PPD is.
If any of that makes any sense. but THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, not any expert I am quoting.
I have worked with people who were labeled BPD and I have seen great progress with some of these people in therapy and in their lives, and I have worked with BPD-labeled patients that are just as bad and just as unreachable as any PPD that I have ever known.
I know therapists that agree with me and I know ones that will totally disagree and I guess until there is a “blood test” that can make the diagnosis we won’t ever be able to agree on this one, but just my observation for what it is worth. The thing that I hate though, is that kids who have been abused and learn dysfunctional push/pull ways of seeking intimacy, or that go from lover to lover to lover to lover and still don’t find intimacy, those people CAN be helped, but the ones who are high in P traits who go FROM VICTIM TO VICTIM, that’s another store entirely. I just hate to see the first group LABELED the same as te second group.
Oxy, perhaps the “fixable” BPD’s are really C-PTSD survivors. Or, perhaps you’re right, the “unfixable” ones are sociopaths, but because they are female, are lumped into the BPD category. If that were the case, the real BPD’s might remain the C-PTSD survivors who remain “fixable”. I’m not convinced that BPD’s are the hopeless monster’s they’ve been made out to be.
Here’s another artical about BPD’s and NPD’s together, for those of you who are interested.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-goulston-md/relationship-advice_b_1674769.html
Kim that is exactly my point…I think that many SURVIVORS who have been “driven crazy” by abuse as children APPEAR to be what is labeled “BPD” but are in FACT NOT BPD but are simply responding to a horrible environment in a dysfunctional way and do not learn adequate coping skills…so they are lumped into the BPD category which I THINK (just MY OPINION) the REAL BPDs should be labeled PPDs but because they are female and their symptoms are a BIT DIFFERENT than males that are PPD or high in P traits, but sheesh the professionals can’t even come up with aNAME THAT THEY AGREE ON FOR PPD….so what does that show you?
I guess opinions are like noses, each of us has one, mine is that I think a lot of kids/women are labeled with the “dreaded BPD” label when in fact they are not PD at all. Or if they are somewhat PD they are on the lower end of it and are not totally without empathy.
They can be “fixed” with proper support and therapy…but the ones who lost the DNA lottery AND the environmental lottery (one or both) are not fixable.
My son Patrick I think lost the DNA lottery so badly that a “perfect” environment wouldn’t have saved him….my other son who is ADHD (and many Ps are ALSO ADHD and/or Bi-polar as well as PD) but has a conscience and empathy, he just has some problems with his moral compass as far as I am concerned.
Funny thing, he is generally LOYAL to a fault to his “friends” but has betrayed me in favor of his brother Patrick until his life ended up on the line and he finally had enough of Patrick, but he again lied to me, broke our agreement, etc. over ESSENTIALLY NOTHING. It was such a nothing thing, that if he had manned up and told the truth we could have still been FRIENDS and I could have TRUSTED him, but he betrayed te trust and lied ONE TIME TOO MANY, NO MORE CHANCES and He knew that when he did it, but he CHOSE to do it. I still love him, and believe it or not I think if I called him right now and said “I’m in danger come and bring your guns” or “I need help butchering a cow” he would be here in a NY minute…but even if I was in danger or needed help, I would NOT call him because I am not going to be “beholden” (owe a favor to) anyone I can’t trust. He and I have an agreement about working together to keep his brother in prison and that is the only contact or communication we have.
It is sad, because like I said, I love him very much and he is not a monster like his brother, he just makes decisions where I am concerned that are betrayals and I can’t trust him to be truthful to me.
Yesterday son D and I were talking as we drove about Son C and how we both WISHED we could trust him and how we love him. Yet, neither of us can say we would NEVER under any circumstances trust him again. Lookk at the story of Joseph in Egypt and what his brothers did to him, and when they came around he recognized them and TESTED them HARSHLY. I never understood that story about why he was so “mean to” them until I realised he was testing them to see what kind of men they had become in that 20 or 30 years since he had seen them. He tested them harshly. Maybe there will come a day when son D and/or I can test son C and he might pass. I thought he had been tested this last time when his wife tried to kill him and he told me “Mom you are a prophet” (because I had essentially predicted his wife was a gold digger and that the Trojan HOrse was a psychopath) but obviously that wasn’t enough of a test to show that he had TRULY repented and changed his ways entirely and given up lying and breaking agreements. Even “small” ones.
I hope that he does “see the light” and realize that unless he changes his ways he has no family…not a brother (D) and not a mother (me.) But, maybe he doesn’t really WANT us as his family. His choice. Sad though.
Yes, Oxy, it is sad. I’m sorry. I wish I could fix it for you.
Some of these losses are neccisary losses, though.
Good link Kim….I remember that movie when I saw it and at first I saw it as a COMEDY and I laughed my ass off at how they acted, then it began to dawn on me that this was a MASTERPIECE OF PSYCHOLOGICAL DRAMA….and at the end I actually cried.
Yes, this movie is very telling and is very typical of how the N and BPD or even the 2-PD relationships end. There is always fire and gasoline and an explosion. Sad. Worse yet when the “loser” presents themselves as a “victim” until they find another “rescuer” to victimize.
I am no longer willing to rescue anyone. I had a very wise therapist tell me once that the ONLY “legitimate rescue” is to drag an unconscious person out of a burning building. She was SO right….and it has been difficult for me to stop trying to, or stop even WANTING to rescue people when I see them in a terrible situation.
It does bring me great pleasure though to see someone RESCUE themselves from some situations.
I’ve seen YOU rescue yourself, Kim, from living in a dependent situation with your P SIL (and I do think he is a P) and become INDEPENDENT and I am so PROUD of you for doing that Kim.
Lots of folks here at LF were SUPPORTIVE of you, but we didn’t RESCUE YOU, you did it yourself, all by yourself. For that you get a big TOWANDA!!!!!
I will always do my best to be supportive of people who are down for any reason, but I can’t rescue them..(do for them what they must and should do for themselves)
It’s back to the old “give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, TEACH him to fish and you feed him for life.” When we “rescue” someone from problem A, they will usually just get back into problem B or return to Problem A, but if they rescue themselves, they LEARN how to be independent and self sufficient. Big difference.
And if you try to teach someone to fish and they either don’t want to learn to fish or just decide to wait for someone to come along and give them a fish…that is THEIR DECISION and we can walk away knowing we did the right thing.
That’s what LF is all about too…the knowledge is here, but people have to take it, absorb it and then USE it.
Yea, Kim, it is a learning process…learning to set boundaries and stick with them. Sometimes the cost is high in terms of emotional coin but that is what growing up is all about, is doing what is right even if it costs you.
Oxy, Do you remember the story of the lady who came into the resaraunt with two of my regulars, her BF, and her teen-age son? She wanted bacon, hashbrowns and toast…no eggs. I persauded her to order the platter with eggs, it would cost less, and someone at the table would eat the eggs. She became very angry at me when the eggs came out on the same plate because they touched her hash browns. Her entire demeanor changed, and she refused to even look at me when I offered her coffee.
Well, each one of her companions apologized to me for her behavior, and they tipped me really well……but, to get to the point, my boss gave her teen-age son his first job a week or two later. This kid was a nice kid, but he was just about worthless, because he lacked all initiative and had absolutely no confidence. He was schedualed for a grave-yard shift, and his mother immediately complained. She was sitting a booth, promptly at 2 everyday, waiting for him to get off, even though he hadn’t finished his job. She was advised that it might be better if she waited for him to call, but, no. She insisted on showing up and waiting.
The kid was given an 8 day training session, when we usually get 3 says, tops. My boss finally had to let him go.
My point in all this is, this kid is ruined by his rescuing, care-taking, intrusive, controlling narcissistic mother.
He has been infantalized….he is scared to death that he can’t do anything right, and will fail, because her behavior has taught him that she doesn’t have any faith in him….at least that’s what I think is true, and her two companions who are my regulars validated me on that. She’s crippled him.
kim:
That poor kid! He is going to be a target for some narcissistic b*tch. Messed up.