Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
One step – those violent images are normal – they aren’t normal for us good people in regular life but they are normal given the circumstances … these people betrayed us and destroyed us. To roll over and forgive them would be inhuman and inauthentic – then the pent up anger we denied would destroy us all over. It is best to get it out.
Hugs hugs hugs – I am going through the same if it’s any consolation, which it probably isn’t!
well, we could be writing a good gory script!
i did a REALLY detailed fantasy of control (back when i thought he existed), and when i found out SHE existed i did something even more evil! LOL. I’ll tell you sometime 🙂
midlife,
Thanks for posting that Sandra Brown bit. It seems accurate to me.
one step- I know exactly about that rage you were talking of earlier. My Ex made me understand how people can murder. No one has ever infuriated me the way he did. And he did it on a consistent basis.
I am having a hard day today thinking about my exS woman. I think about just how much I loved her for so long..that I would have done anything for her as a friend first then as a lover. And I got angry today knowing that she laughed at my love for her and threw it aside 3 different times. Because my love for her was a weakness. A tool to throw back at my face. That makes me feel like a fool every time I think about it..and it angers me all over again! You know.. if they don’t really care for you(me) then fine say so and let us all move on! No! They instead have to “Use” that fact and beat us to death with it!
Fortunately for me..it is that anger that continues to keep me from contacting her. Because I don’t want to go through being used again. Whatever love I have(which I admit may always be there) will just be there. She is never going to know it again. Forgetting and forgiving is not in my mind or heart at this point and may never be.
Renewedhope:
I understand well that feeling of having done anything for your S-ex, first as a friend, then as a lover. I’ve been almost 16 months NC and it took me awhile to realize that we get so heavily emotionally invested in a cluster-Bs happiness, stability, finances, work-happiness (hell, just keeping a job), the list is endless — that we lose ourselves in the process.
I grew up in a house where physical and emotional abuse was the norm. I now see that with the S-ex I was trying to give him what I had needed and never gotten. I think my S-ex (and all cluster-Bs) are masters at reading what our “need” is and then, as you put it, “beat us to death with it.”
I have spent 50+ years of my life trying to please these creatures which can’t be satisfied — from my S father and malignant N mother, through a string of lovers, each progressively worse thant the last, until the S-ex entered my life. Maybe I had to learn the lesson of S-ex to finally realize that my own needs were worth something and that I had the right to set boundaries to protect myself.
Stay with the anger for as long as you need to. You’ll give it up after awhile because you’ll realize that it is too exhausting to continue to live like that forever and also, as you begin to reassemble a new life for yourself, you’ll also realize that you don’t want to waste a moment more than necessary in dealing with S-ex. But, the anger is a very healthy emotion in the beginning because it gives you the strength to do whatever you have to do to settle business with the S-ex and to take care of yourself. If you haven’t done so already, read Kathy Hawke’s article on anger. It is liberating.
I haven’t been on here in a long time because i did relapse. I just couldn’t believe that my spath was REALLy one. So once again, I tried to believe that he had really changed. I know that I am no where near ready to forgive. His latest betrayal is so fresh. He took such a long time to woo me and make me feel that things were really working out between us. One day he told me that we would be together forever and he wanted to grow old with me. Within hours he went out and didn’t return for 30 hours. We don’t live in the same state, he had to move back to his home state because he couldn’t find a job in mine (he never really looked and of course, I was paying the bills). The phone was always off when he visited his “cousin”. When I asked why he had to turn off his cell, he said because it was it was guy time. Then suddenly all the symptoms were there. He was suddenly angry when I called. I asked him if he was seeing someone and he got angry and told me he was not. He said ” you will be the first to know if I have a girlfriend.” That made me laugh as I was always the last to know. Then i got the “I love you but I’m not in love with you” then it was ” he was going through something” so I know all the signs of his cheating by now so that was the clincher. Sure enough, his own kid told me that a woman was driving him to work and letting him use her truck. He has no drivers license which I am sure this woman doesn’t know. For the past two weeks the only time he can be reached is when he is at work. And did I mention that he gave me herpes and we both knew that! Now he is with this woman, who is unaware that he has this disease that will affect her whole life like mine but it is possible that she had given it to him because he was living with his cousin before he came back to me. I feel so low because I now I feel scarred for life because I believe I will never have a chance to have another healthy relationship because I have this disease. He goes on to his next victim. I loved that someone wrote that they were giving their spath to the other person as the worst gift that they could receive. I wish I had gotten out sooner because I did get tested after his other cheats and was clean. Now it’s too late and I feel humiliated and ruined in a way that his financial hurts didn’t even approach. I know spaths have no conscience. I sadly believed him when we got the diagnosis that it didn’t matter because we were going to be together forever this time. I have nightmares about confronting this new woman. I am having a hard time concentrating at work and I feel sick that I have ruined my life and he just goes on creating his evil with no consequence. I say that but his children don’t want anything to do with him, he has no real friends and he will die of drink probably so I guess there is some retribution. I know that I loved someone who is not real in a sense but I have hard time realizing that there really is no person there only a shadow that shifts with the daylight. I am angry with my self about so many things not the least of which is that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around, still, that there is no man there who really loved me like he said over and over, only a person who will do anything or say anything to get what he wants at that moment. I know that this woman is just another means to an end, but I too, feel that she is being wooed, having sex with him and getting the money from a job that he has for the moment and I have bills to pay that are from him freeloading on me. He is so much fun women think when they meet him. Very seductive and sexy. Then I think, but now he is diseased too and spreading the wealth. I derive no comfort from that though. I want to hate him but can’t seem to get there. I can say the words but I miss the person who I talked to five times a day. My morning wake up and good night call. The loneliness is setting in and I feel now that I will be alone the rest of my life because of this disease because who will want me with it? Pretty sad and pathetic I know but I am scared to death in so many ways. Not feeling hopeful at all.
Jelltogether,
Wow. Well I guess I just want to give you some empathy. When I first read about Sociopaths I was convinced my ex was one, but still ended up re-convincing myself that he wasn’t REALLY one. Boy was that a mistake. I moved across the country to be with him only to be confronted with many of the same lines you were: “I’ll always love you but I”m not in love with you” “I’m going through a rough time, I need to figure things out” and of course he cheated and is now living “happily” with the new victim.
Mine too gave me an STD, many years ago long before I had any idea what a SP was. Fortunately it could be cleared up with antibiotics, but I remember at the time how enraged I felt and when I confronted him he tried to tell me that I must have been sleeping around. Even years later he would tell me I got it somewhere else (when he’s the only man I’ve been with in over ten years now). He KNEW he gave it to me but would blatantly lie to my face about it-it drove me mad. Now I now this is just him “gaslighting.”
I was NC for 6 months and then broke down and went to see him. He acted as if nothing had ever happened. I also learned that he now has a car which his new girlfriend gave to him. (I always had to cart his ass around). Breaking NC definitely took it’s toll on me emotionally, but also helped me see that nothing has changed, he’s the same miserable person using this new girl. I’m sure if I gave him my car he’d come back (and as much as I sometimes think I want that–I DONT.
I also understand the loneliness. I feel like I might be so damaged from this relationship that I will never find anyone to have a normal relationship with. Also, I can’t believe I wasted such a huge chunk of my life, I’ll be 30 this year and am starting to worry that all the decent men are married already.
As for the herpes, I think it can be managed fairly easily now, and I don’t think it’s unrealistic to hope that you will find someone NORMAL to spend your life with that is willing to overlook that. Everyone has made mistakes in their past, so try not to get too discouraged.
Hang in there, the loneliness will come in waves. The good part about that though is that there are lulls in it, and the longer you go on without him the greater the length between those crashing waves of misery.
Dear Jet; I understand alot of what you are going through. However I have been lucky in the STD dept never being positive for anything.and pray I never will. But let me address that because you seem to think your life has ended romantically because of Herpes. Here’s what you do dear.. Before you can even think about a new love you need to wipe this scumbag from your brainwaves permanently! This is no easy task and I am having a hard time today not feeling love for this S woman who strung me along for 27 years. First look at this like any other addiction. Make Today- Day One and start counting Day #1 Of No Contact(NC) from said scumbag.
Like Elizabeth Kubler Ross wrote about the 5 steps of dying.. (And freeing yourself from a love relationship is like losing someone through death) You are going to have to go through the 5 steps:Denial,Anger,bargaining,Depression and finally Acceptance. Once you get through this and ample time goes by then you can think about dating again. And NO! Your life is NOT over! You are one step ahead of S-man because you are honest about the Herpes to yourself. You will not place someone else in harms way because you are moral and decent. You then go and find someone just like you who lives with herpes . I have seen many a want ad for lonely hearts that say: Woman with herpes seeking relationship with man who is the same. You will find a man who is not only being honest with himself but with you as well. And as ironic as the situation is.. you already have something in common to start off with. I may sound off the wall but am being honest with you. You are not alone! If you want to get past this you can.
Keep the faith and Godspeed to you!
Timeheals,
You wrote: “to Hopeforfuture”Don’t bother trying to “warn” the ex about her Psycho”even if you manage to contact her, she won’t believe you”she’ll tell him”he’ll say you’re crazy”she’ll tell you you’re crazy”and it will make you crazy!!!! Don’t waste your time, she’ll find out on her own”.go NO CONTACT You CAN do it, and it WILL get better and easier.”
I agree with you completely!
I have also heard this “NO CONTACT” thing before, in more than one place. I also know it from personal experience. If you confide ANYTHING to a person under the grip of a Sociopath … they will NOT believe you. The Sociopath has their loyalty and they will stick to the sociopath like glue. You will only come out on the losing end, giving the sociopath more ammunition to torture you with. They WANT you to feel miserable, and they will manipulate the circumstance and use it against you emotionally. Don’t give him the satisfaction.
May I tell you about a book that first gave me insight into the life I was living? The book is called “Say Goodbye to Your PDI (Personality Disordered Individual)” … and the cover further reads: “Recognize People Who Make You Miserable and Eliminate Them from Your Life for Good!”. It was written by Stan Kapuchinski, M.D..
When I stumbled across the book in a bookstore on my lunch break, I was still with living the life with my husband. I was consistently in a miserable state. I knew that something was seriously wrong with my life, but I couldn’t put it into words back then. I often felt as though I was the problem and I couldn’t figure out how I went wrong or how I could fix it.
I sat down with this book and a few others … just paging through them to pass the time. When I reached Dr. Kapuchinski’s book, I browsed through it until something caught my eye. It was chapter 4, titled “The Smooth Operator: The Antisocial Personality Disorder”
The more I read, the more I found myself saying “It’s like he wrote this chapter based on MY HUSBAND!” and “This is my life for the last 12 years in brutal detail!” Light bulbs were going off in my head … sirens blaring!
It changed my life. At the end of the chapter, it tells you what you CAN do in dealing with an ASPD and what you CANNOT do. I studied this list. I realized that I had, without realizing it, changing the way I interacted with my husband. I had begun to question everything. I had begun to say no to him. I had begun to use facts to support my statements. I began to stand my ground. And, as the book predicts what will happen if you do these things … you can expect the ASPD’s behavior to worsen. The book was right, his behavior DID worsen … and that created the unbearable tension that caused me to leave him.
There were SO many tips on dealing with an ASPD, that I honestly think I wouldn’t have made it out of the relationship without them.
Part of the advice?
“RUN from mental and physical abuse.
DO NOT confide secrets, hopes, plans, dreams, and fantasies.
DO NOT trust him (if you think you are the only one who is getting the truth, you are only decieving yourself)”
ASPD’s use your feelings to control you. The more information you allow them to have, the more clever ways they will find to manipulate you with it. They are EXPERTS at this … and they have usually spent a lifetime honing their skills.
No contact? Absolutely!!! I quit posting any details of my life on Facebook because some of his family are in my “friends list”. I quit posting to my journal on DeviantArt for the most part, because my daughter still checks on my page now and then. Everyone who is aligned with him will feed him info on me and my life. I’m not giving it. I’ve gone silent.
Deviant Art is a website for artists and amatures to post their artwork for free, whether it be photography, literature, paintings, sketches, or whatever you’re into. Right after I left my husband I used the site to express my emotions. I journaled about some of the bad dreams I was having. It was a healthy way for me to deal with my feelings … and that is where my daughter has been lurking … sharing all of this info with my husband. I began to realize that they are probably enjoying reading about the emotional torture I have been feeling since leaving him.
I miss the site, but I will no longer give them significant information. Now if I post something in my journal there, it is only about the positive feelings I have (at rare moments).
TooLate,
You are soooo right also in all that your post conveys. I guess because we all seem to be the kind, considerate type that the S/P’s seek out in the first place, it’s no surprise that we actually try to WARN the new GF’s instead of acting bitter and jealous towards them. (Well we may be THINKING that it would be nice if she tripped and fell while on a date with him, totally embarrassing herself with her ripped stockings and chipped tooth) but…we really don’t want anyone to experience the spath rath, so we give it a go.
As USUAL, we should know better…he USES anything we say to work AGAINST us and work in his FAVOR!! And she is so under his spell, she can hear story after story of his lying and cheating, but she still believes that for HER he’s changed. And WE are the ones that end up with the looney toons reputation. Of course she loves that!! It makes her look even better, so the whole thing blows up right in our face.
And this goes along with them using EVERY bit of info we tell them. I still look back and go ahhhhaaaahh, so THAT’S why he asked me that, or that’s another way he used me.
I think for those who are “debating” whether their partner is a P/S or not…if you can just take EVERY question you have ever had about problems in your relationship, that you never had an explanation for before, and answer them with “BECAUSE HE’S A PSYCHOPATH!”…then he probably is! For example; why would he say he loves me and then still be looking on 4 different dating sites? answer:BECAUSE HE’S A P! or how could someone sleep with 3 different women on the same weekend? or how can it not even phase a man to almost lose his GF to suicide? answer:BECAUSE HE’S A P!
They do what they do because that is what they do…
Be strong and post HERE…WE will love to read your thoughts good or bad, happy or sad…it’s all nourishment