Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
I sure know what you are talking about kindheart. No one could tell me about my S. not even up to a month ago when she went off verbally on the phone and blamed our 2 month emotional affair all on me because I was married and she’s just living with someone. I have already taken blame for my half of the emptional long distance affair. She would never take blame for her half. Our mutual best friend even told me that she could have tried to dissuade me then but she said I probably wouldn’t have listen and took it as just forcing a situation I wasn’t ready for. You see, my best friend is a non active lesbian and hasn’t has a real relationship in years. I asked how come you never went after “Queenie” (S woman)? She said it was because she worked for the sheriff’s dept and took a class on criminal behavior and saw Queenie’s behavior. She was floored when I sent her the definition of a sociopath and Queenie fit almost everyone of the traits.
Having finally read the homework on sociopathy and narcissism I have finally woke up and realized I was fighting a losing battle. Forget how they change with age or maturity. S woman will never change. She would screw me over 1000 times if I gave her the opening. That is what your friend is going to have to learn. Any relationship has to be close to 50/50 if it is healthy enough to survive. Otherwise the person doing all the giving will lose the zest for living.Your friend will find this out looks like alot later than sooner. hang in there.
yes i agree and i have to get over the fact that he treated me very well and that helped me see i could actually finally after 7 years move on to cuddle with someone new , but it wasn’t to be and i knew all along he couldn’t know what he was doing but as usual i felt very sorry for him and wanted to help but i knew i was playing with fire and im glad it didn’t get any more complicated than it was already . From now on i have to find whole men who don’t need fixing or helping as i know im a magnet to them. I saw him driving his wifes jag last week earlier and it hurt and then i thought about why and it’s because i know he’s bending over backwards to keep her pleased and she will be back to treating him like dirt opposite to how i was treating him but that’s what he’s accustomed to . Someone in AA once said about me to another man, if you want her to like you treat her like shit so i was there once myself . Truth is we really didn’t want to be treated that way we just got so used to the crumbs. The detective mentioned the crumbs and the fact she could be using him so deep down he has the knowledge he just doesn’t want to beleive it . Have to let that fish go too. love kindheart
We all must go on here. That doesn’t mean we don’t still have feelings for that person and have our weak moments. But that is what this site is for to be here for us when we feel weak or just need a pep talk. Just know that you deserve a good man but be prepared to live a life less harmful which may seem a bit boring than being with said S person. I just recently went through that with my wife of 14 years- complacency. Otherwise My S woman wouldn’t have had an opening with which to slither through. I gave her that opening even though I don’t believe in adultery or cheating. My wife certainly didn’t deserve what I did to her. I have to live with that and forgive myself for doing that and it’s hard to accept. Even though it was never sexual, an affair of the heart can still be deadly to a marriage. I was so lucky in that my wife loved me enough to stick it out and wait for me to come to my senses. We both realize now that the S woman would have dumped me anyway when she got bored..that is her M.O. It’s what she does. And I would have been out of the best thing this life has given me-a loving wife.
Forgiveness?
Not tonight. Tonight I am angry at all of the Spaths in this world! May they burn in hell for all eternity!!
God, are you listening to me?! Are you there? Are you deaf or just indifferent?! Teaching us sinners a lesson, or what? Where is YOUR compassion?
Grrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!
Forgiveness?
Not tonight. Tonight I am angry at all of the Spaths in this world! May they burn in hell for all eternity!!
Very Funny.
My ex-S is dead to me. I haven’t heard from him since November 2009. Someone wrote that the new person receiving him is a gift from hell and it will be. He was just asking me to stay married to him in August and yet he drops out of our lives in November (typical S behavior). Of course I told him no. Our divorce was final in September. He wanted to get back into my life and hurt me again.
I believe forgiveness is for us and not them. I keep thinking about how I am going to react to him if he ever calls but I am not sure. I kind of have a hard time of seeing how you forgive someone who constantly keeps hurting you over and over again.
This post will date me but thinking about promises that are broken by these snakes,reminds me of an old “Three Dog Night” song “Don’t make promised that you can’t keep”.
R. Newman)
Seems the songs we’re singing
All about tomorrow,
Tunes of promises that you can’t keep.
Every moment bringing
Love I can only borrow,
Telling me lies in your sleep.
Do you think I’m not aware
Of what you’re saying
Or why you’re saying it?
Is it hard to keep me where
You want me staying? No.
Don’t go on betraying.
We had a chance to find it,
The time was now or never,
Promise the things that I need.
Left the things behind it,
Threw our chance away forever
Telling your lies in your sleep
Do you think I’m not aware
Of what you’re saying
Or why you’re saying it?
Is it hard to keep me where
You want me staying? No, no.
Don’t go on betraying.
Don’t make promises you can’t keep.
Don’t make promises you can’t keep.
Don’t make promises you can’t keep.
Tired of hearing ’em.
Tired of hearing ’em.
Every time I look back over the last 27 years with S woman ,she made whole slew of plans for us and NONE and I mean, NONE of them ever materialized. I hate her for that. Dragging me into her web of lies and deceit. Getting my hopes up. Knowing herself that she never meant anything she promised. I know that has to be the same for most of you. So Don’t fall for their lies again! remember this anger you feel because you need it to get past THEM!
Thanks everyone for all your helpful postings. I am still reeling from all this stuff and still feeling a little hopeless to be honest. I know that everyone told me, get away from this guy, and now I just feel like why god why did I not listen. I am always a pretty good judge of character but every instinct I have, I have to honest. I ignored with him. And i can’t for the life of me figure out why. I am feeling like it’s my own fault that I got this “gift” from him because I ignored my own feelings to ask him to use protection. His ex tells me that she never got anything from him so this can’t be something he’s had before. The spath told me the last time I reminded him that he has this, that it’s bulls**t because he has never had an outbreak. But I remember how there were times he was reluctant to have sex and that was not like him. He said he wasn’t in the mood and he was depressed.
I am feeling so depressed that I let this happen to me. The funny part is I am an incredibly faithful woman to the man in my life. I would never cheat. He has done nothing but. I intellectually know that I shouldn’t feel that I am bad but there is an emotional part that says, it’s your own fault you ended up with this, you shouldn’t have let him come back into your life, you shouldn’t have slept with him you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t you shouldn’t. But you did and now you have what you have. How do you stop beating yourself up and forgive yourself?
Renewedhope: there is a ‘seduction exercise’ in the Betrayal Bond, where you list all the lies and all the outcomes. I just started doing it last night. Hope your copy gets there soon – you are so doing it!
Jell , reading your posts i’ve been there beating myself up with a stick over spilled milk. I like you had no business sleeping with this loser 7 years ago but i was drinking and extremely vulnerable coming out of a long term marriage. I look back at that time and can see the damaged woman i was before even accumulating the damage from him. As time goes by and it takes alot of time im not going to lie to you, i quit drinking but i was addicted to him for years. It’s just been over the last year, after losing my dad, getting involved helping a married detective with his s and life goes on and i never thought i’d get to the place where i was sick and tired of trying with this loser and yes like you i think you wasted the best years of your life but i can’t go back and neither ca n you. Im dreading him calling as he will eventually, when it’s convenient for him and he has nobody else and i am lightyears out of his legue, not in a bragging way it is just a fact and you know i was thinking of how all along people in droves were telling me this. On some level i think it made me feel better than him but the contact brought me down to his level. They actually told me that in rehab over 6 years ago , they said he will never come up to our level, he will bring you down to his but i wasn’t ready to hear it then. I like you woke up this morning thinking about the s and the detective i was helping and mumbled to my self ” you stupid stupid girl” but then i laugh thinking it’s done, over, i was looney tunes without the tunes for a time and im sure you are like me probably above average intelligence as mine was tested in trauma program so it has nothing to do with intelligence. They are master manipulators and that is their only means of communication, if we communicated like them with our intelligence we could make them look like novices but we don’t operate that way and thank God. Im grateful mine was impotent for the last 6 years as he can perform when he picks up trashy women where he preys so i could have been at risk for sure. My gf and i were having this discussion on why alot of men we know seem to go for the trashy women and i googled it like i google silly things and it’s simple. Trashy men like trash women and i don’t want to be trashy anymore. I was married to a very decent man at one time, beat myself over that for years too and where did it get me , going back to the s to get more punishment. My ex wouldn’t have wanted me with this loser and i know if alot of my family were alive my mom, my grandmother they would have kicked me in the arse and i would have deserved it. They make you need their approval above all else or anyone else, i’ve seen it with the detective. Much easier to see in someone else and it’s nauseating that a decent human being is accepting such treatment and he’s resigned as he put it to this is his lot. Well we know better now, and im might be sick of being alone but im not going to settle ever again. We have to let go of the past or we are feeding them more, but i too get into fantasy of revenge but i know they never pay so the best revenge is what i’ve read here for years, total and complete “not interested in your crap” .. Im waiting for him to call as i’ve never reacted that way but i know it’s the only thing their teeney egos can’t take. love kindheart
Will get it asap! Thanks!