Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Thank you Spirit.
I am learning so much on this site, I’m in overload! I will make it through though and am lucky that at least I wasn’t married to the man, nor had his children! I am still in bargaining mode because part of me cannot fathom that he was so calculating and didn’t mean any of it! But of course, as every lie became apparent, it was harder and harder to believe anything. And then it culminated with me finding out he stills lives with her which was the straw (I am not a “mistress” and do have my morals!). Whereas the ex or whatever she is has to deal with this day in and day out for the rest of her life.
Small blessings! Tomorrow I am going to get out and start aggressively taking care of myself. I’m allowing the weekend to be my grieving pity party!
Thanks so much for your responses and being an ear for me! I dont feel quite so alone!
LKam.
So true. I have to say one of my biggest struggles is trying to fathom how someone could do something like this. BUT like you said, these kind of people do exist and we can never understand how they can do it. I mean, I can see being damaged (believe me) and having issues but once you’re an adult, you should at least have learned to stop such destructive behavior.
Speaking of destructive behavior (speaking of my own), he warned me in his own sly way from day one! He said he was a bad liar on many occasions until I asked him what he meant and then he never said it again. He also gave me other clues. He totally toyed with me. Forgiving myself for not taking car of ME is where I’m looking to get to now.
Dear Dr Leedom, thank you for the post. I definitely think they have choices. The X wrote me yesterday another card stating that he has emptied all the bottles of wine I brought over to him (he clearly aknowledged that the bottles were mine and I had suggested he bring them over to my sister who lives about half a mile away from him). Why on earth is he writing me this? It can’t be other than another attempt t torture me (he still cares about me, he enjoyed the wine without me, and he finished the stealing of my good French burgundy). We split in April 08, and I wrote the last card to him in September 08, then it was only him sending me cards every two months, NC from my part. So what the hell was he thinking? Well, each card had less effect, and the card yesterday did not even raise my heart rate. I thought well he is done with the bottles, so there is nothing left from me over there. Fine. Done. I have choices too!
Today I took a test about “Positive psychology”, where there are 6 virtues and 24 characteristics tested.
1. Knowledge and wisdom
2. Courage
3. Humanity
4. Justice/Rightfulness/Fairness
5. Temperance
6. Transcendence
I had some weaknesses in “friendliness”, forgivenness, social binding; well, they asked for “NSP first class target qualities” I try very hard to to overcome!! It was like the LF-test “Are you a target” in reverse!
Dear Hopeforfuture: welcome to LF, and sorry that you qualify as a “Club-member”.
There is no such thing as closure (the X I had dealt with is a fine example!). The closure has to be within yourself.
No answer from her is a very fine answer! It is a NO! Or it is Speechlessness! Or Stop this, I do not want to hear anything because he is my soulmate and I do NOT wake up from this dream (yet).
It is you to chose the answer. Just let it be, because it will hurt you even more if you GET an answer (I have been there!)
Just relax, enjoy the quietness, enjoy the non-drama of being in the best possible, understanding company (of yourself), and pamper yourself, take a bubble bath, clense thorroughly, and let the bad thoughts sink and disappear in the drain of the bathtub, and make yourself a nice cup of orange flower tea and snuggle in your most comfortable bed and imagine your place you liked most when you were a child.
One step a time!
And read and vent and rant, and get knowledge as knowledge is power. I recommend the archives; for me Kathleen Hawkes Steps were most helpful!
The best thing to do is make the decision of going No contact, take back your power you have handed over to him.
Not to read, listen, call, email, snailmail. Him and all the people connected with him. Just walk away. It takes away his power he still might have and diminishes the hurt; this will hurt like hell, and doing this “Cold turkey” is even worse. Come here, read and blog! There are always people who know and can accompany you through the very first times.
By the way, the “hard youth” is a classic “pity ploy”, and most bad people use this as a handy excuse. This is a choice as well!
(((((((Hugs))))))
Dear Hopefrofuture, I want to make an addition to my above post to you.
I just read your other entries, and you too had choices regarding your past! You chose to not become a jerk, evil perpetrator and tormentor cheater, although you had prime examples to copy from!
You go girl! You can be VERY proud of yourself for not chosing this way that was presented to you from an early age on! Congratulations!!!
It is never ever too late to start a healty love affair with yourself! You took already a great step coming here, taking off the rose colored glasses and start digging within yourself to become the wonderful you who you were meant to be from the very first cry at your birth.
(((((Hugs)))))
libelle, thank you so much!!! Your words have brought me some true joy today! Made me cry but still! Thank you!!! I will take you advice but first one last “whine”:
One of the things that also hurts is that I just feel so worthless – as if I’m the “other” woman that is easily discarded and meaningless because he goes back to ex. Like their relationship is so valuable. I was just reading other blogs on how to survive infidelity and making your marriage work, etc…(and even though I didn’t know he was still with ex and they are divorced, I’m curious why she would stay) and they all come off as if the other woman is nothing but fodder for his ego. Which I guess we are but I don’t understand why they validate this kind of behavior in men! (or serial cheaters anyway). Like the marriage is so vital and sanctified that staying with a spath is more important to the family than getting rid of the cheat! This is some strange co-dependent behavior as I see it. And I think I need to stay away from those sites because it is hurtful to me.
Okay, now onto your advice and start that healing!!!
P.S. You rock, libelle!!!
Hi everyone, I’m signing in after a long absence under a new screen name. Unfortunately, I was, like some of you, feeling a bit ignored when my comments were so often not answered, that I chose to stop writing. I have continued all along to read the articles and blogs which have been a never ending source of strength for me, and I apologize for my sensitivity possibly standing in the way of a contribution I never wrote, that may have helped someone else. I think we all need to remember that when new-comers finally get the courage to start writing here, they are in such a tender, needy place”they are the new kid at school”and unless several classmates make a real effort to continually connect and welcome them, they will pull back and withdraw to the last seat in the corner thinking, “they don’t REALLY want to be friends with me..they didn’t even notice how sad I was today”
For the most part, this site is full of wonderful, caring and supportive women (and men)”Having been one who survived a suicide attempt, I can tell you all firsthand”sometimes it’s a battle to keep from slipping back to that place. Hopefully, without the P/S/N’s in our lives, none of us will ever feel that desperation”but all of us should remember that anyone who posts could need so much more than they let on”
Now, my reason for writing”.
to Hopeforfuture”Don’t bother trying to “warn” the ex about her Psycho”even if you manage to contact her, she won’t believe you”she’ll tell him”he’ll say you’re crazy”she’ll tell you you’re crazy”and it will make you crazy!!!! Don’t waste your time, she’ll find out on her own”.go NO CONTACT You CAN do it, and it WILL get better and easier.
Stargazer”I’ve been praying for you and your kitty, for peace and comfort ;“(
Hopeforfuture: They are true masters of invalidation and manipulation! “Mine” managed to make me tremble at the simple question “where is the sugar?” in the grocery store, and he looked with contempt at my wrong answer as they had rearranged the shelves….
“Your” X is not invalidating you, he is PLAYING both of you, him being the trophy (never possessed by the winner, but has to be handed over to the new winner)! You can be lucky having handed over the “prize” to the new winner, and now PLEASE stay away from the game/competition, will you?! (((((Hugs)))))
Timeheals: welcome back! I look at LF being my lifeline, and the blogs are just to let go the sorrows into cyberspace, and when I really needed help I got it. I was persistent then, blogging and communicating with others, because answering others gives often more insight about one’s own quirks, I have found out. Lf is wonderful, isn’t it?
By the way, have you al,l LF gang, a relaxing evening/start of the week!
Dear Liane,
What is the definition of “forgiveness?” To me that is the crucial question. Does it mean we just pretend it didn’t happen? Does it mean that it was okay for them to do it? Does it mean we must go on and have a trusting relationship with these people again?
As I was growing up, my egg donor’s “definition” of forgiveness was that I had to pretend that the hurt hadn’t happened, pretend that the person who did bad behavior repeatedly was “trustworthy” and that “my hurts” did not matter or were acknowledged. In order to foster this idea in me, I was told from an early age that to be angry with someone for hurting me either deliberately or accidentally was wrong.
My earliest memory of this was in second grade (age 6) when a girl in my class repeatedly beat me up in school every day for most of the year. When she broke my jaw it finally became apparent that something had injured me seriously. However, I was told that I could not be angry at her, that it wasn’t her fault because she lived in a very crowded situation and was simply taking her frustration out on a weaker kid (she was the youngest of 21 children from the same two parents) and that I had to play with her afterwards.
As the initial abuse was going on, I felt ashamed that I was being beaten, and did not tell. After I had the broken jaw, I felt ashamed that I was “found out.” The entire “counseling” I got from both my teacher and from my egg donor was that I should not be “mad” and only excuses for why I shouldn’t be angry at her, and why I must “forgive” her and play with her.
This indoctrination continued throughout my life, and I partly bought into it, though it never felt right that my feelings didn’t matter….but eventually I realized that my feelings DO matter, and that “forgiveness” does NOT mean that I must forget, or trust that person, but rather, that I get the bitterness out of my own heart, the rancor, the wrath, the negative feelings I have, but I can acknowledge that they hurt me, that they did it intentionally, that they are not trustworthy, and that I do NOT have to have a relationship with someone who uses or abuses me in any way. I am NOT obligated to associate with these people and I have made boundaries that I think are reasonable and rational and I will enforce these boundaries.
People (no matter WHAT the relationship) who cross these boundaries will not be in my intimate circle of trust….unless they make the effort to successfully show remorse and a change in behavior that convinces me of their true repentance, acknowledgment of the harm and hurt they have done to me.
By acknowledging my own feelings of justifiable anger and hurt, and disengaging in trusting these individuals, I am able to give up the bitterness that EATS AT ME without condoning in any way the behavior of the other person. What they did is wrong, and I don’t have to accept it, but at the same time I do not want to be filled with rancor and bitterness at what they did for the rest of my life. It doesn’t hurt them because they don’t care, but it hurts me by pushing peace out of my life.
**Sigh** I am a little frustrated. I am frustrated that I can’t seem to get over this feeling that he’ll be happy with this new girl. I get how pathological he is. I completely get it and I keep telling myself that he just can’t turn it off at will. But I also know how incredibly smart he is and I know his capacity to fool people. So, he goes from brutal, just absolutely brutal, cruel behavior with me to joining the community crew team with this girl and spending the holiday with her family. Even his sisters went over to the new girl’s family’s home. I really do feel like this is such a personal slap in the face, since he got together with her immediately after me. He kept calling me afterwards, and was so pissed that I wouldn’t get together with him. I didn’t know it at the time, but while he was seeing this girl, he called me and was apartment sitting for a friend and invited me over to watch movies, just as friends, as he said. He was so angry that I wouldn’t and then said that he should just stop calling me because he wants to see me even more when we talk. He was definitely seeing this girl then! I never met his friends or anything, and now he just got off the dating site he was on, the one he used to cheat on me. Sometimes I am so certain that he is doing whatever he needs to do to feed this woman’s illusion, and that I guy this pathological simply could not be treating her in a normal way. I hate him, hate him, hate him. And I can’t help but be feeling very sad for myself tonight.