Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Eva, your words are wise. I’m still trying to grow up. Wisdom has to have it’s benefits, but I’m still trying to find them. Protection is one of them. I wish it felt as great as being innocent.
My spath once told me, “I never wanted to grow up”. Now I know what he meant. His innocence was ripped from him. Now he only wants to do it to others. He did it to me.
Thank you, Skylar for calling me wise 😀 but i’m afraid that concerning wisdom i still have a long way ahead of me because i too was reluctant to grow up completely.
But i really believe in the benefits of growing up. I don’t think the age of wisdom is worse than the age of innocence. Besides, i think one doesn’t exclude the other completely because being wise is not synonym of being embittered, dark or anything similar. It’s just being more lucid and cautious, not to renounce to live intensely. It’s to live life to the full with head.
Eva 🙂
Hens 🙂
Do you miss my potty mouth?
You thank God my stock of English words is very narrow….
Eva,
agreed. I know wisdom is the path AWAY from DRAMA, so I’m doing my best to stay on that road, even though I miss my innocence and the boundless enthusiasm that goes with it.
Skylar,
why has to be enthusiam lost when one gains significant wisdom?
Even the law of nature says that what goes around, comes around. The bible teaches that “you reap what you sow”. I remember when my ex s/p was engaging me in one of his conversations. We were discussing the sale of our house and this was before I knew he was an s/p. Of course I knew there was something wrong with him, I just could not put my finger on it at that time. Then when I was told he is an s/p, I did my research and BAAAMM..like a lightbulb went off, I could finally put a name to it. Anyway, this was 5 years ago and he was totally lying to me about something, but he said to me “if I am lying to you, may God strike me dead with a lighning bolt.” I almost laughed. My friend told him “be careful Mr. Wonderful, its been known to happen”. Well, here we are, 5 years later and there is still a lightening bolt out there with his name on it!
My point is, of course we want consequences. We want them to have to suffer for making us suffer. And for making us continue to suffer. That is human. If we were raped or one of our loved ones, we would be in that court house expecting JUSTICE. Same thing, we have been mentally and emotionally RAPED..AS HAVE OUR CHILDREN. Of course we want justice. There needs to be a point where we hand it over to divinity. There will be consequences. There will be justice, eventually. The HOW or WHEN is not ours to determine. I think like ML’s post stated, forgiveness is for ourselves. So we can move on. So we can stop wasting time and energy on the WHEN and HOW. The best revenge we can have is living a good life. Find our peace. Continue to Hope. Be true to ourselves and others. Ignore the s/p. Sooner or later they will have to face their end…We can determine our future and the person we want to be. Peace, Love, and Joy
Nice post, hgg. In short tenacity.
Skylar, you asked for a summary of Vicente Garrido’s books. This is his backspath advice. Against the tenacity of a malignant personality that wants to deprive us of our essence there’s our persistence of being faithful to ourselves.
Ok,
Before I hit the bunny trail of massive housework that needs to be done, I need to vent again. There are other things coming up, with more self examination.
There are posts here that really hit me sometimes. It’s kinda like being struck over the head. The silent skillet lol! But I’m learning to recognize these things for what they are. They are not personal or aimed at me, but they hit me because they strike a cord within, yet another layer being peeled away.
Having said that I’m very concerned about a few things.
1. I’m having trouble with empathy. It comes and it goes. My heart feels closed off three quarters of the time. It feels more irritating then warm fuzzy. I DO get and feel warm fuzzies, but I FEEL irritated. I also feel apathetic to things. Uninvolved, joyless, aimless. I see what I want to do or think I should be doing, but carrying anything out seems to be such an ordeal, but I do it anyway, halfheartedly. This confuses me because when it comes to spath, my heart is opened up like a christmas turkey! All the things I feel towards others are felt about HIM. Compassion, love, care, blah blah. That sickens me, actually. The same things I feel about him, I SHOULD feel about others ALL THE TIME. BUt I don’t. It’s a huge effort. That hurts me in the worst way. It also angers me.
Ox, when you posted about that woman that was on your farm, I related to her in a small way. I don’t get shit done. I see it for what it is, FEAR. The difference is that I don’t want ANYONE to take care of me, but I don’t know how to do it for myself. The fear is irrational. When under the gun, though, I can get things done. It’s a confusing time for me.
I think about what underlies all of that. Where the fear is. That I can’t do it. That I’m somehow too old, too sad, too tired….if that makes sense. Underaccomplished. I’ve wasted so many years being a victim of P’s and spaths. I never took care of my shit. I hate the victim label. I want to be a SURVIVOR….
The other thing that bothers me is ENVY! I ENVY ENVY ENVY!!!!
And that’s NOT OKAY with me. I’m poor. I can’t afford to buy decent clothes. I live in the crappiest place. That’s not a pity party ploy, it just IS what it is. But then I have to look deeper, where, WHERE is that coming from? It’s part my growing up environment and the emphasis placed upon monetary and material wealth. It’s rubbed off on me. Success in my mind is what my spathdaddy, sis/bro have/had. They were groomed by spathdaddy to succeed. I was groomed to fail. This is very difficult to get past. Last spath had money too. A nice home, car, clothes. I WANTED to be apart of that. It was FAMILIAR!!! I SEE that as success!!!! He is SUCCESSFUL< just as the rest of my spaths were. I take that yard stick out and measure myself accordingly. In their eyes, I'm a failure. And it would be the truth when viewed from their perspective. In turn that makes me VERY angry because with whatever I wanted to do in life, it was SABOTAGED. It created a huge fear within me, yet a strong desire for success and an even bigger envy of those who have "made it".
I saw a woman today that I've not seen in many years. I didn't say anything to her. I have run into her husband and chatted with him a few times as he likes to walk around town and talk a lot with neighbors and such. He ran a museum here in our town for awhile. I enjoyed talking with him because I LOVE history and he knows A LOT about that! His stories have fascinated many people of what were once the pioneers of our city. Both of them are in ill health. She's doing better and works at the dollar store that we were at today. He is not. They live in this tiny little apartment close to where I live and have a son that is living with them. Both of them are extremely well educated and extremely bright! They've been together for over thirty years and have five children, all of whom have gone on to college and/or beyond…anyway…the point of this is that they are happy!! HAPPY with just where they ARE RIGHT NOW…they didn't and DON"T have to have money to be happy. THey accept their lot in life. Being around them was a lot of fun when I knew them as my neighbors. She makes the most beautiful quilts and they grow their own herbs and stuff…..they don't CARE what others think! now THAT is how it needs to be for me….
I don't like where I"m at. I'm not happy in this place. I'm not happy with my life. I'm not happy with the slow pace that it seems to be going. I'm not happy with this apathy and lack of empathy that I'm dealing with. I feel very damaged by this spath. I feel he carries much of my childhood with him. Many of my traumas. I feel defeated. I feel that he won.
I want very much to be happy just where I am NOW. I keep thinking of the things that I have that are good in my life.
Which leads me to something deeper and more. My lack of empathy. IT"S REALLY BUGGING ME!! I wonder if I'm not pathological too. That feels more defeating than anything else.
I'm making efforts to spend more time with my children. I've not seen my grandchildren but once lately. I have kept my distance from them and my daughter. Partially out of fear of being sucked into my daughter's ever present drama with her baby's bf, and being bitched out again if I don't comply with something she wants me to do. I feel emotionally exhausted. Like I don't have much to give. It is VERY frustrating! So anyway, I've been making it a point to be in the same room with my kids, rather than be isolated in my room, depressed. They like it when I'm out in the living room with them. I think because I was so into my spath, and they were so emotionally neglected, It's hard to reconnect again. That's frustrating too.
I have another source of shame within ME too that's really bothering me. My son. I wanted to KICK myself today for how I was feeling (hens- HELP!) about him. He is gay. From the time he was a child, I just knew there was something very different about him. He was just…..different. I loved him anyway. When he came out, that he was gay, was the same day I found out he was also offending. His being gay was not at all a surprise, I was more appalled and sickened by the offending. Ok, fast forward to present time. The offending is no longer an issue. My son is very flamboyant. VERY. He looks like a male, he is short, rather stocky, muscle-y type. The flamboyance is definitely noticeable, but not like some of his friends (whom I love too) that where dresses and heels (I WANT THEIR DRESSES lol!), anyway…he irritates me sometimes. He is a great kid, sensitive, loving and caring. Very funny and musically gifted. Versatile in many ways. He is partially def and that's part of the irritation. not his deafness, but his flamboyance, he can become VERY loud and obnoxious. It drives me up the wall at times, but I don't say anything because this is who he is. I just let him be who he is. I don't feel I'm going to blow up at him at all, just irritated. Sometimes, I do have to let him know that it bothers me, as far as volume, but I don't say anything about his essence….this is the key for me, no matter how irritated I become, I see it as MY PROBLEM and NOT HIS. I remind myself of that and that I am the one that needs a self exam when thinking the things I do…okay so anyway, my son decides he wants to dye his hair PINK! UGH!!!! So I let him. He's 20 almost 21 a grown man. If he wants pink hair,then pink hair it is. He bought his own dye and he works hard, so why not? His hair is HORRENDOUSLY long and looks like CRAP, but I don't say anything about that either. When he cuts it short, he looks far more mature and handsome than this beatles cut he's got going on. So anyway, he dyes his hair and is having a blast with it, although parts of my bathroom are pink and I had to make it him clean up the mess lol…he wasn't done by the time I went to bed last night, but when I got up and he was sleeping, I thought …..Oooohhhhhh LAWDY!!! His hair is PIIIIIINK!!!!! He slept in, but when he got up, I had to open my mouth: "Son, your hair is REALLY PINK!" "I know, isn't it great, ma? I LOVE IT" GAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't have the heart to tell him what I really thought. I just thought that i'd opened my mouth enough, so I said nothing. He wasn't waiting for my reaction, because I think my son knows that I accept him as he is, so he doesn't really think about it. THANK GOD! I hope he doesn't ask me cuz then I'll feel I have to be honest. And I will be! So he says he's hungry and that we are out of milk (with three sons in the house at one time, my milk NEVER lasts more than a day and a half), and need to go to the store. So he wants to go and we go. This is where I begin to kick myself and have a huge war going on inside………..OMG what is EVERYONE going to THINK!! This is so embarrassing!!! UGH!!! I said nothing but i wanted to just get through the store and get out! I was ASHAMED of my son and I've NOT felt that way before, at least not like that. Not like that. Hens, you'd probably really like my son. He is as funny and sarcastic as they come. Fun to talk too. There are so many good things about him and I'm so ashamed of myself for feeling embarrassed about my son and his flamboyance. It's not the first time he's taken his purse with him into the store or worn his make up, even with pink sunglasses all through the store. He doesn't give a rats ass what anyone else thinks. He is happy just as he is! I'm so upset with myself for feeling this way because i love my son so much. One of the things I thought about when we were at the store was "oh my god, what if spath and his gf walk in here, spath would point and laugh at my son and at me as his mother". He said he didn't mind people who were gay, but I know for a fact that's not so…
Who the hell AM I???? I don't know who I am when I think this shit. it is SO disturbing to me!!!
I don't care much for the way I'm feeling. I don't care for the things I've been doing or not doing. I don't care for the things I've been feeling or not feeling.
I need to go clean now. Thanks for reading. Again!
LL
LL, some of the things on your “things to do list” may not compare to the highs you had with the psychopath, since psychopaths are good at giving pleasure and excitement, when it suits them and for their purposes. But think of how much you suffered with him and how much worse he’d treat you over time (with less and less validation and pleasure, more drama and more pain, more neglect of yourself and of those who truly love you).
As for your son, his pink hair isn’t hurting anyone, is it? To wonder what the psychopath would think if he ran into you guys and saw your son’s pink hair is a little twisted. The better question would be what would your son think if you ended up chained to that psychopath, who is quite capable of real harmful actions to you and your entire family?
As for your liking some material things, you’re right to say that they don’t make anyone truly happy. But if you want more material possessions, like a bigger house, your education will be the ticket to getting that as well as–and much more importantly–to feeling more fulfilled once you become a social worker/therapist.