Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Claudia
LOL! Thanks for that! It’s interesting to see feedback.
It’s a lot like that book that I was reading last night.
Well, you wouldn’t want to be MARRIED to a PSYCHOPATH would ya? Um….NO! I need those reminders from time to time.
Naw, I’m getting use to the hair now. I guess it was more shocking than anything else. Honestly, I think I’d have liked the neon green better lol! It was much prettier!
The material stuff………yea, it bothers me. It really does, as do some of the things i mentioned. A work in progress. Speaking of which, I’m still sittin on my big behind and getting NADA done.
Sabotage I say! ENOUGH!
Thanks Claudia for the boot to da butt!
LL
LL, it wasn’t a boot in the booty, it was a gentle reminder:). I want to see you successful and happy, as you deserve to be.
LL, I spent a year sitting in depression watching my house turn into a pig sty—after my husband died and my step father died, I SAT and didn’t do anything except feed the dogs…went days without bathing or brushing my teeth. I sort of thought maybe that was what was going on with the “woman” but it wasn’t—she was pity playing me—she could come up with reasons to not look for a job or not do anything physical -=–like cleaning the toilet—but I noticed if it was something physical that she WANTED TO DO, her arm got better instantly! a miracle!!!! WHOOOOOOO!!!! But the minute I mentioned the bathroom her poor arm was sooooo sore! LOL
I guess I’ve got quite a bit of the Capt. Smith in me, “no work, no eat” and I don’t run a boarding house for people who don’t want to work. Never have never will. Sky laughed about me giving her the $150 but it was a gift, not something she conned me out of–a gift to myself to make sure she had enough money to get clean out of the state!
I may have sat around and let my house get dirty when I was depressed but I didn’t continually blame it on someone else….and then change my stories. I at least did accept responsibility that it was getting dirty. In her case, it was MY HOUSE and she had AGREED to clean the bathroom in exchange for using it. She didn’t keep her part of the bargain. She had the choice NOT to use it and NOT to clean it…she could have shat in the woods and bathed in a water hose, both of those options were available to her. I never let my own kids live here and mooch off me or not do their share of the household upkeep so why should I let someone else who is perfectly able to do her share of the work? I gave her an opportunity to have a safe place to park, a place to leave her dogs where they were safe and she could not worry about them while she worked, a ride to town with my son who worked in town so she didn’t have to use her vehicle (a small truck/RV) to drive to town, access to a free medical clinic and a free dental clinic, etc. she used NONE OF THOSE OPTIONS except to use my bathroom and NOT clean it and to hint for me to give her money so she could pay her back storage fees on a storage in Colorado—she would cry and cry that she was losing all this furniture and stuff—and I would just shake my head and say “well, if you had it where are you going to put it? You live in an RV 1500 miles away. If you had it paid, how are you going to pay moving expenses to get it anywhere? If you had it unless it is bars of gold it won’t sell for enough to cover the moving expenses” (she tried that same story on another person I know too, but it didn’t work on them either).
But like I said, I’m actually glad that I let her come here because really I got a LOT MORE KNOWLEDGE OUT OF IT than it cost me in terms of time or money.
Ox,
I responded to this, pushed the button and my post is somewhere in cyberspace? Oh well. Time to do my carpets, tend to my roast!
LL
Hey Ox,
One of my friends on FB was married to a spath for many years. He died suddenly of a heart attack about two years ago. I’ve noticed over the last six months or so, she has slowly come back to life. Now she’s pulling carpet up in her house, painting, cleaning…and is back in school. I absolutely adore her. We share some similarities in how neurotic we are sometimes lol! But she wrote something on her fb about her to do list and slowly checking things off. She just got some new furniture for her new carpet, paint, saying she is starting to like her house now and that even when she runs into stuff that was HIS, it isn’t paralyzing anymore…that time and distance do wonders with healing….
I couldn’t help but feel happy for her as she has struggled for such a long time with depression and pain….she’s back involved with her grandchildren and her children have been a great support to her in helping her get through…..I responded to that post, saying how happy I was for her…she knows of my situation too….and she said, “sweetie, you’ll get there, it’s just not overnight”……
Boy isn’t that the truth. I think I just want to FF through the pain and be done with it. I fight my tears and pain. I fight the depression, I’m in constant war within about my relationshit and the things that happened, both on his part and mine….even though I know he’s spath and the fantasy is over and the relationshit and me broken, I’m having a difficult as hell time coming to terms with that. I’m frightened and lonely and sad….
I keep pushing to feel better NOW, like I somehow should be, but I’m not. Even though the relationshit was not good for me, and I know that’s an understatement, I still grieve him, I grieve us, I grieve what will never be, I grieve what may potentially never be. I don’t have the energy to do this again. I’ve finally reached the point where I don’t want another relationshit and I fear it. I’m blessed to have great men friends, but a relationshit beyond that is out of the question. I feel I blew all of my prime years on shit. I wasted me. I’m grieiving that too. I’m grieving all the growing up years of having missed out on so much with my children and what they had a right too had I not been involved….I struggle with forgiving myself for all of this….
Even though I know this won’t last forever, this is where I am. Accepting that, is hardest of all.
LL
Head has been spinning today…HE STOLE FROM ME…and I JUST found it out!
I can not really find the words to describe the feeling I have about this…violated is probably the closest. Let me explain…it was a STUPID G.D. BIKE RACK!!! Obviously, its not the object itself that I care about…I can buy a BRAND NEW one with nooooo problem at all! Its the thought and feeling I have about how little he thought of ME and MY stuff to CARE about how I might FEEL!
I was given this bike rack by my cousin, and truth be told, I wanted to throw it out. It was big, bulky and we didnt know how to put it on the car. He convinced me to keep it and we put it outside the door, hanging from the railing in the hallway of MY condo. It sat there for about 4 months…
When he was leaving (3 weeks ago), I asked him for MY keys back. “You dont get to have my keys if you dont live here.” He seemed appauled! He responded, “are you kidding me? ITS NOT LIKE IM GOING TO STEAL FROM YOU.” That was honestly, the FURTHEST THING from my mind.
So, he leaves and I leave and go to my ma’s house. I say to her “I dont know how he thinks hes getting his bike home, cause his car is chalked FULL of shit. It wont fit.” I NEVER THOUGHT HE WOULD TAKE MY BIKE RACK!!!
So, having been absent minded for about the past 3 weeks, after taking my dog out, I NOTICE the bike rack is gone!!! I ask the neighbors if they saw him putting it on his trunk and they all say ‘no’. I WAS ON FIRE!!! Filled with RAGE! HATE! REVENGE! I called my cop friend and asked how I could press charges…I cant but they can call and ‘encourage’ him to give it back OR they ‘might’ have something to arest him on. Do I want that? Over a bike rack? ITS NOT THE BIKE RACK I CARE ABOUT!!!
I am sick to my stomache. NEVER have I felt like I meant so little to anyone…Never have I CLEARLY seen my ‘worth’ in someone elses eyes…NEVER have I had something TAKEN from me without my permission from someone I LOVED! NEVER…NEVER…NEVER!
So, I sit here and I am beginnign to ‘plot’ my revenge. WHATS HAPPENING TO ME!!! Im not vengeful…but how can I sit back and ALLOW this to happen…I feel like Im trying to MAKE him have the ‘consequence” and I will loose because he will have it planned already how to counter.
Many friends and family members have advised me to ‘let it go’. I dont understand this! LET IT GO??? Let it go as in…’allow’ it to happen? Or let it go as in know what went on, keep it with you, sit back and give him enough rope to hang himself, and do NOT give him the satisfaction of knowing Im upset…he knew what he was doing when he did it…let HIM wonder WHY I havent ‘reacted’…
HELP!
The most vengeful thing you can do is let go of him.
Give no attention. Dismiss him.
Rise above, walk away refuse to play the game.
Be angry enough to completely dis this guy.
He did a lot of bad things you didn’t sign up for.
The man is a horse’s *.* and the sooner you are done, the better it will be. Yeah, I know everbody says it. They said it to me too. And it turned out to be true.
Of course you are angry and sick. The whole thing provokes that. And it sucks that there is no better revenge than to go on as if he never existed.
But that is the deepest vengence and you can wreak because he’s just trying to tweak you for sport. If you don’t let him, he loses.
And to this kind of guy, winning that way is a big deal.
I understand how you feel. God knows I do to the marrow of my bones.
And how hard it is to just drop them and walk away from it.
Without the benefit of telling them off or, or, or.
And the violation – its what they do. Over and over and over.
Make this one the last one.
And never suffer to deal with him again.
LL:
C’mon girl! DO NOT give him that type of power and control over YOU tonight or any other night. I AM ON FIRRRRRRE WITH ALL THE BULLSHIT THAT GOES ON…FIRE!!!
You loved something/someone who wasn’t real. You know this in your head but in your heart you cant absorb it. I understand. I would like you to try and take a ‘detached’ view of this situation though…just for a minute…use HIS skill for YOUR benifit…
If you can look at him from a standpoint of being ‘sick’ it may help you. I dont mean ‘sick’ like he has a cold or even cancer for that matter…I mean ‘sick’ like being COMPOSED of cancer or HIV/AIDS or heppatitus or whatever you choose. The key word though is COMPOSED of…made up of…
Him being ‘sick’ has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU…with whether or not you were a ‘bitch’ from hell for 2 months or whether or not you did the laundry or spoke with a rude tone or if you said things that hurt him. HE IS A SICKNESS…and, one defining component of his sickness is the quality of ‘pretend’. What I mean is this…a component of cancer sometimes is unexplainable, localized pain. No wifes ‘bitchyness’ or ‘lazyness’ or ‘rudeness’ CAUSED the localized pain…its BECAUSE OF the ‘sickness’.
He is defective, sick, unhealthy…BROKEN…and he’s UNABLE to be fixed or cured because his ESSENCE is SICK…
You are not though! You were victimized by somone whose ‘BEING’ is sick…and as part of his ‘sick being, sick essence’, he was ABLE to do this to you. H E A L T H Y P E O P L E DONT INTENTIONALLY HURT OTHERS!!!
And THATS why it hurts US so badly…because WE can see the ‘evil’ and ‘wrongness’ behind what they do-AND IT HURTS LIKE HELL BECAUSE WE FEEL.
“sometimes silence is the best way to scream at the top of your lungs.”
Silvermoon:
Thank you…
“Give no attention. Dismiss him.
Rise above, walk away refuse to play the game.”
I will bury myself alive before I give him ONE MORE OUNCE of my attention over his STUPID BULLSHIT GAMES!!!
I am a ‘fighter’ who does NOT lay down to have people walk over me. That has been a hard concept for me to choke down over THIS one…just do nothing and THAT will get him more? UGH!!!
You are right though…’he’s just trying to tweak you for sport’ IS the game! He can have the mother f*&%^$g bike rack and attach the new bike he got to SOMEONE ELSES CAR…and I will wait PATIENTLY for karma to kick in because with a SHITBAG like him it HAS to happen…
I PRAY I GET TO SEE OR HEAR ABOUT THAT KARMA AND HE PAYS FOR HIMSELF!
Babe,
Soooo……….how’s it goin? Make sure you let it all out now lol!!!
Just kiddin…but you actually helped with your “shouting” lol! I just laughed with your post to me. It was JUST what I needed. Amazing the wisdom that can come from someone else’s anger!
Having said that, I can share this with you: My ex HAS money (well, sorta now, he ACTS like he has money, but he’s seriously in debt right now-but has new gf to fix it for him), anyway, he has credit cards galores and tons of cash in his wallet. But what does he do? He STEALS 150.00 out of MY wallet. Out of my home. I was reading here recently, I think in the book I was reading last night in fact, that even if they have money, they will STEAL It anyway just for FUN!!! He KNEW I was poor. He knew that money was my GROCERY money. He stole it anyway. Bastard. But that’s what they do. He’s also stolen anti anxiety medication from me too in the long ago past. I KNOW it was him because HE was the only one who knew where it was. Again, bastard. But that’s what they do and that’s what happened when your bastard stole your bike rack. Just for fun. Just to see what you’d do. TRUST me on this, you’re better off not responding about it because that’s EXACTLY what he wants. A reaction. Typical spath power play.
Bastard.
LL