Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
LL:
I get goin boy…and you know EXACTLY what Im feelin! (hugs)
One word…BASTARD (S).
Babe
EXACTLY!
Well you just get goin anytime! It sure helped me, I hope it helps YOU too! LOL
Yep.
HUGS!
Bastard (s)
Babe,
Ok, lets just leave the emotions out and get down to logistics, OK?
Have you changed your locks? He has your key, he has duplicated it by now, CHANGE ALL YOUR LOCKS. he is a SOCIOPATH. They KILL people for pleasure.
Next. File a police report. YES, it helps toward documentation. This is not the Jerry Springer show. This is real life. I’m not trying to scare you Babe, just trying to bring you back to reality. THEY HAVE NO LIMITS. Only the fear of consequences keeps them in check. He doesn’t seem to be very violent, more like a mischevious idiot. You want your stuff back, but even more you want him out of your life. The way to do this is to EXPOSE HIM (by filing a police report) and concurrently, STARVE him of drama, by going GRAY ROCK.
Do what you do, and do it matter-of-factly. NO DRAMA. File a police report but do it without any drama at all. When he calls you or contacts you, YAWN. You can say, quote: “lookit, Socio, (yes, call him that), I’m not interested in your drama. (then yawn again) you bore the hell out of me. Hey, if you want drama, have you considered signing up for an acting class? I swear, you’ll love it.” then hang up.
Eva Yes. “Against the tenacity of a malignant personality that wants to deprive us of our essence there’s our persistence of being faithful to ourselves.” I did not get corrupted by this person, and he dearly wanted to do that so that he would have been able to blackmail me even more. They want you to give in and feel you are a collaborator. They set up scenarios so its possible for it to look like you are. Its so subtle and so believable at the time. “Please Sweetie take delivery of this for me at your work, this is really important for me to get this and there is not time to have it sent to my place.Then they do not even ask the story goes I have had this sent to your work. Then the thing on trial is not returned and it has been delivered to your work and to you.” These people do not deserve forgiveness. Forgiveness is for people who show remorse. The best these ones can do is imitate remorse.
Skylar:
“Starve him of DRAMA by going GREY ROCK”
YESSSSSSSS! You are right on with this! There is CLEARLY a desire for drama in one way or the other. Funny thing Im remembering…right after we began talking again I said this to him “I DONT WANT DRAMA!!! I have been very peaceful without talking to you. The ONLY drama Ive had to deal with has been MY OWN and that’s not very much.”
He agreed…’I dont want drama either…*yawn*”.
I AM ‘doing what I do” and going about my business. Ive had NO CONTACT with him for 3 weeks ON MY TERMS. I have somewhat of a feeling this is the ‘calm before the storm.”
Thank you.
Denise and Eva,
I agree with you, these people do NOT deserve our forgiveness, forgiveness is for people who say sorry and show remorse, and do not treat you badly over and over.
My big mistake was believing her lies,forgiving my spath daughter over and over and allowing her to con, lie to me, and fleece me out of thousands and thousnds of dollars. Each time, I fell for and believed her pathetic lies, I was so gaslighted, I let it happen, and then was so crushed when I got conned, used and abused all over again.
NO LONGER. Its not so much the money as the awful feeling of being used and betrayed and treated likea complete fool.
One of the worst times was when she rang me in tears,saying she was in big trouble with her bank over an overdraft of $450– Not a huge sum of money, but as it happened the only sum of money I had, and all my savingsa t the time was $450–So, I agreed to meet her, give her the money, wed pay it into her bank account.
I duly met her at Circular Quay in Sydney. I had a cheque for $450– but no, this was not good enough for her, she wanted it in cash. So, I had to find a branch of my Bank, and exchange the cheque for cash. Then, we qued up for ages at her bank,{it was the lunch hour and very busy.} When we finally made it to the counter and gota teler to help us, I asked her to write my daughters overdraft on a piece of pper. She did so,–$4 dollars and fifty cents.
My daughter said,”There must be some mistake, Mum, you go and sit down, Ill sort it out.” I did, as I was by then tired and stressed. She came ove and said,
“Mum, she madea mistake, she had the decimal point in the wrong place the amount was $450–“.So, I gave her the money, she queued up again, made the payment, we went outside, I cut up her credit card, we hugged, and I went home feeling I d done her a good turn.
A few days later, her bank statement arrived at my home. I smelled a rat and opened it, there was thousand s of dollars in her account, which shed used to pay of her bills nd book a Holiday.One of her accounts showed a total of $4.50 OD. So, the original sum owed, was correct, she had only owed four dollars nd fifty cents. Knowing she had plenty of money, she still took my last $450– in the world.
Worse was to come. the next day, a telegram arrived for her at my home.{She had lived with us for several month sa nd I was still getting her mail.I had to open it and read it, and sign it.}
All it said was
“D, your Mastercard is here waiting to be collected. FromJulie, Westpac, Circ. Quay.” The minute i had cut up her card, shed straightaway gone back and reported it lost, and ordered a new one.
I was so hurt, so crushed so fooled, so betrayed. And she has done this over and over again, and I allowed it to happen. NO MORE .
They have no remorse, no consciense, no compassion,
its beyond belief that they can behave in this way Its inhuman.I havent seen the biatch in 2 years, and I dont miss her.I used to love her, and would have given her my right arm if shed asked for it.No longer. My heart has been torn out of my chest, and stamped on by her.She doesnt deserve me.She doesnt seem to care that she has killed a Mothers love stone dead.
Love,
Mama gemXX
Hi guys. I’m on the site Jax created but I’m damned if I know what I’m doing! Anyone able to help?
Dear R-babe,
I think he took it a) to move his bike and B) to get back at you for asking for your keys back. Just a little sneaky there, hee hee he thought as he grabbed it.
I suggest that the best revenge you have back is to NO CONTACT him. Block his texts, e mails and phone. They do NOT like it when they are deprived of the ability to contact you, because It means YOU are in control. They cannot stand for YOU to have control.
Hang in there, he’s gone, you’ll start to feel better soon! (((hugs)))
Robx – just a parting shot from spath. It wasn’t even yours (in his eyes) it was HIS. Just like everything else. They take over, own, you, you’re stuff, money etc.
When I took the keys back from my spath he took £160 out of my account – in his mind some sort of ‘pay back’.
I did not pursue it because it would have meant having contact with him. I was never going to see the money again so what was the point. It was a lose lose situation. My suggestion – for what it’s worth – ignore it, if you pursue the theft it will only bring you heartache.
Geminigirl and Denise, we know they are not human. We have to put it into our brains. It’s not our fault if their nature lacks humanity, but we have to protect ourselves.
Gemini, what you say is very sad. You had no a daughter, you had a monster. Take much care of yourself.