Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
R-babe,
ALL love except hopefully a mother’s love for her newborn infant is “conditional” on something. There is no such thing as “unconditional” love. If I am mean to you you are not going to continue to love me even though I hate you and abuse you…that may be “trauma bonding” but honey it AIN’T LOVE…
None of us are perfect and we all do arsehole things from time to time…we are HUMAN and humans are cranky when we have PMS or don’t feel good but we have consciences hopefully that some what guide our moral compasses to try to control or correct this behavior.
You are more imperfect than some and less imperfect than others, but you are HUMAN. Accept it, get over it. You do not have to be perfect to be lovable. Being PERFECT (If you could be) would not make one of these people love you any more than they do because they are NOT CAPABLE OF REAL LOVE.
All relationships between two people whatever those relationships are should be based on two things, kindness and honesty in my humble opinion. However, YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL ONE SIDE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP…your side. You cannot make the other party be either kind or honest. Even if you are 100% kind and 100% honest that does NOT mean that they will choose to be either kind or honest to ANY degree.
If however, you make the decision that you will NOT engage in a relationship of “intimacy” with anyone who is not kind or honest then YOU DISENGAGE from that person—quit interacting with them. No Contact. NC….you have that right to disengage from the relationship at any time with anyone at all. You have NO obligation to continue to engage in any relationship that is based on even one side as unkind or dishonest—you have the choice to continue in it if you wish (but why would you wish to be with a dishonest and unkind individual?)
I never felt I had the power to disengage from abusive people if they were somehow “family” or “close friends”—somehow that made it obligatory that I take whatever carp they dished out and then try to figure out a way to make them happy and not let my own unhappiness be important. WELL I’ve come to realize that is NOT TRUE, I DO NOT HAVE TO ENDURE ONE MINUTE OF UNKINDNESS OR DISHONESTY FROM ANYONE, it doesn’t matter if I gave birth to them or they gave birth to me, if I don’t want to associate with someone I don’t have to.
I do my best to be a “kind” and “honest” person and I know that sometimes I don’t live up to that as well as I wish I did, but I do what I can to live up to that, make up for it if I see that I have failed if I can, but I do NOT TOLERATE dishonesty or abuse or unkindness toward me by anyone any more. I withdraw my intimacy from that person.
So R-babe, get off the self pity, self accusation kick and accept the fact you are NOT perfect, not going to be perfect, but you did not “Cause” him to steal your bike rack or be a arsehole jerk either. 🙂 I agree with Aussie too—-change the locks! (((hugs)))
Ox and Kim:
Self pity…DONE! Im in control over my own self again…
Thank you both…
RRAAAWWWRRRRRRR! Self doubt, self accusation, self blame-MY a$$!
Babe,
I get it. I understand, and what everyone here is saying is right. Each of the steps toward the healing process involves self doubt, ruminating, etc. It’s these posts I find helpful while addressing others situations. You’re doing good! I like your spitfire attitude lol! You have spunk, girl! BTW, I was an absolute BIATCH in the relationshit. HE provoked that, I reacted. It was that way all through the relationshit. What I see now is how frustrated I was for so many years, trying so hard to make him happy, to be what he wanted me to be (what I THOUGHT he wanted me to be), and he would sabotage every single effort I made and would do the meanest things, say the meanest things, all in that cool, calm demeanor. I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t react to such frustration and pain. It took me many years to understand that he enjoyed my reactions. He had SUCH power of me for such a long time.
Having said that, everyone, I need a boink over the head this morning. I’m officially 100 days out since I’ve seen him last. This is a milestone for me. I would usually be begging him back at this point, but I’ve not done so. But I’m struggling and I just would like to vent about it.
I’m having a very hard time with the new gf thing, as well as the wife thing, but moreso, the reality that I was the OW in the situation. There is SO MUCH pain involved in that I didn’t get the love bombing, etc, with him as a single man. This turns the tables in my mind and I find myself STUCK in this. I’ve been doing a lot of reading, replacing those fantasies with the bad memories and the things he did to me. PLEASE don’t tell me not to ruminate on this particular area. I’m still in process. I need to find a way to heal from this part of the relationshit.
So gf is now living with him. She was love bombed in a way that I was not. IN a way that his wife was and I was not. Yet he kept the carrot out there….one time telling me to move in with him..I knew he didn’t mean that. The treatment got worse and worse since the divorce. He was done with me, I wasn’t “needed” anymore and I was old news. The thing that bothers me so so so much, is that he was faithful to his wife the first few years of the marriage. And he’s being faithful to new gf too. He loved being at home twenty four seven with his ex. I think that was a control thing for him. He didn’t have to be involved with her other than what it was to be “maintenanced” as he put it. He never crossed me as the type to cheat when we were friends at first. In fact, he was rather aloof to that, said as much, and was playing “hard to get”. The friendship was a long time before the onset of an affair between us. He wants someone there twenty four seven for him. To tend to he and his needs. he loved to putter around his yard, and his shop. But he rarely went anywhere else. When we became involved, he saw me at lunch hour and towards the end of the marriage, the last year, a lot more. He went out to places with his wife, vacations, and church. Never with me. After the divorce, when he asked me to go to the beach with him, I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I can’t help but wonder if I’d spent the time with him he had wanted if things would have been different, but I doubt it. I represented a wound to his image. When he was trying to lure love bomb before gf, he completely lied to her….not only about his wife, but he lied by omission by never mentioning that he had a nine year affair with me. He played the whole sexual MO he did with me “My wife is a prude and we never do anything sexually fun”.. So when he didn’t tell love bomb about me after having had the best sex out of me for years, I was in absolute devastating pain. It really hurt. I did sumersaults for this man and I didn’t get even an honorable mention.
Would things have been different if I wasn’t the OW? Is he different with her? CAN he be faithful? He seems to be capable of this for a time, as long as she’s sucking up to him and stickingn around, he’ll be at home, playing attentive lover and his idea of getting away is to piddle around his house and in his shop, or rather home improvement.
I see those images in my mind of his redoing his house with her, which is also what he wanted. As well, I think, as someone there to take the burden off the house payment and his enormous debt and free sex. Well, now he has that, so why would he stray from that? The reward for doing what gf is doing, is his love and attentiveness.
I don’t know if she knows about me or would ever find out. His ex wife is pretty mum about those things with anyone, and I’m sure she’s not going to jump into that because she’s happy being without him and into her own life.
On the other side of this, I know I need to press forward. I’ve made some progress in picking up the pieces in my own life, as well as with my kids. My daughter and I talked the other day about their perspectives about what happened. It was a good talk. I’ve not addressed this with my eldest yet, but I’m going to when the time is right. My other kids are not ready yet.
I’m in so much pain over this. There was nothing I could do because I was the OW. I never stood a chance. Is it different with her. IS IT? Because she’s NOT? Was his treatment of me worse because I held the “whore” title in the situation and wasn’t deserving of what all these other women got out of him? I have no proof that he was with anyone else other than me. I’m still triggered by what this “friend” (acquaintance) told me the other day about him not being on his dating site any longer.
It just hurts and hurts.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Off to school for awhile. Hope you guys are having a great day.
LL
LL, I didn’t even read your “vent” except maybe the first words or two and the last couple of words—I’ve heard it all before and frankly, get over it! I don’t mean to be mean to you, but just look at what R-BABE was doing, you are doing the same darned thing even after seeing the responses to her self pity self doubt. STOP IT. Damn it, you are just making it worse by giving vent to it over and over and over….your therapist told you to stay in the NOW and you are NOT DOING THAT WHEN YOU GO INTO ONE OF THESE SELF PITY PARTIES.
Well, here is notice that I CHOOSE to not listen to any more of your whines, because it is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE TO YOU for you to do this. If someone wants to get their nose out of joint at me over this and say I’m not being empathetic to you over this then that’s their privilege, but enough is enough LL.
When are you going to stop beating the same dead horse with the same farking stick?
It is difficult to have a lot of empathy for someone who keeps on hitting their thumb with a hammer and then crying because their thumb hurts. STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP LL and then crying because you hurt. I can’t help you, no one can help you as long as YOU ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMY. The guy is gone, he is no longer beating you up, BUT HE HAS YOU THERE TO DO IT FOR HIM, HE DOESN’T EVEN NEED TO.
Stop with the whine deJour! BOINK!!!!
LL, What makes you so sure these other women are getting love bombed when you said he never love bombed you?
He must have done something, early on, to get you to enter into a relationship with him. He probably ignored his wife and neglected her, probably couldn’t have given two shits aboout her feelings, wants and needs.
And the new gf might slip right into that role for him. Give him time.
Why do you continue to grieve not being in that role yourself?
He cheated on his wife for ten years…that IS NOT BEING LOVE BOMBED. THAT IS BEING BETRAYED. He will cheat on the new gf, too. He is playing by the rules, now, because it suits his purposes. She has money and a nice house. He is playing the sincerity game.
Oh, by the way, I had friends who loved to stir the shit between me and spath…especially when we were broke up. They loved to get a reaction, snd continuiously triggered my anger, or sadness. They couldn’t wait to drop the next one on me, and it kept the trauma/drama alive and active, so, I finally had to stay away from them, too.
I’m glad you decided to avoid this, “friend.”
It’s almost like breaking NC, it’s just as disruptive.
Hope you feel better soon.
LL, I agree with Kim one hundred percent. It’s best to avoid not just the psychopath, but also all those associated with him, if you can help it. Particularly if they keep you from healing and open your wounds.
Since psychopaths are incapable of love and form relationships to use and abuse people, he’ll mistreat whatever woman or man he’s with. He may adapt to their specific needs first, but ultimately he’ll be a selfish psychopathic jerk to the new girlfriend, and the next one, and the next. Thank goodness you got rid of him, LL!
LL:
I was recently ‘encouraged’ to do this…it may be useful to you also…
“STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO HIM BY THINKING ABOUT HIM”
Think about that one for a minute…and when you DO think about him, replace those thoughts with “F&^% YOU”…
Rinse and repeat…”F&^% YOU, F&^% YOU, F&^% YOU”…you cant think of TWO things simultaneously!
LL – I was the other woman and I never even knew! It was months later when I found out he had been living with someone. He told me he lived alone. I was gutted when I found out. But…..he did the same to her, and the one before that AND the one after me. Is there a pattern forming here?! Yep – they are all the same. Kim’s advice about the ‘friend’ is spot on – it breaks the NC rule.
It only hurts because you ‘allow’ it to hurt 🙂
Ox, I understand. But I don’t want to pretend I don’t feel sadness either I appreciate your input. Thanks for the “BOINK”
I’ve NC’d the friend, but it definitely triggered me. I don’t have ANY OTHER existing ties to him with anyone else.
Just got back from the school. Now onto doing my appeal letter, lining up another therapist, and going up to join the gym. I’m tired of thinking about it. To me, it’s worth the expense. I have friends who are at the same gym that I feel safe around, who are all supportive. It’s something I really want to do.
Thanks everyone for your input. I’ll get past this. It helps to get a boink on the head once in awhile.
LL
Candy,
Wow. I think it’s amazing that you didn’t even know? I can imagine how finding out must have made you feel. yuck.
LL