Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
LL,
I know we all have stages we must pass through but you do seem to despair over your ex being faithful to his wife (as it should have been) and or mayhaps being faithful to his new victim. Perhaps they demand that of him and he complies but fact is, as you well know, it’s only until he has them trapped.
You did not demand faithfulness of your married lover and it was not necessary. He did not have to con you about faithfulness, that mask was off to you. You knew the truth of his cheating.
He has different traps for his victims but in the end, all he offers is abuse and to hear you lament that you didn’t get ALL the scam and abuse that his other victims suffer…. (love bombed? BOMB. dear. BOMB. THey aren’t getting “LOVE”. They are getting BOMBED with false promises of love. BOMBED. Like in trust and faithfulness destroyed.)
If as you say, you need to only vent (blow off emotional steam), perhaps that could be fulfilled by writing it on paper and burn it? But you are doing more than that. I am here to support you, but I don’t think you realize the effect of your drama bombing. It’s like you get all wound up and you dump that emotion on us, and then you feel some relief. That’s NOT processing so it’s NOT helping you and I don’t feel any benefit for myself.
Just somethting to consider from someone who wants better for you.
LL, I agree with KatyDid that the psychopath didn’t need to act “faithful” to you because he was already married during your relationship with him. I also agree with her analysis that he can probably fake fidelity now that he’s divorced, if it suits his momentary goals with the new girlfriend. Nobody can get any love from that psychopath: be it his past, present or future partners. Probably all of us know this rationally, but sometimes it takes a while to come to terms with this harsh truth emotionally.
However, I don’t agree that you’re drama bombing us. Personally, I enjoy reading your posts and find them filled with raw, but genuine emotion, and psychological insight. I also noticed that there are other people here who seem to enjoy interacting with you, have been very supportive of you and praised your progress towards recovery during these past two weeks of interacting on lovefraud.
Claudia,
I think you border on criticising me.
Just to clarify, I am supporting Lesson Learned and have been doing so for several months where I have spent full days posting and supporting her. Because I feel such empathy for LL when she is in such pain, it is emotionally difficult when she “vents” the same pain over and over. It seems to me that it’s not what I think of as venting. Instead I think she is transferring her overwhelming dramatic feelings to others, then has a period of calm, and then works herself up again, forgetting what she has already processed. That’s not healing, that’s a cyclical self abuse pattern. I’ve been through the same and needed to learn self calming techniques which ARE HEALING and empowering.
Aww LL, I don’t think you’re drama bombing anyone. You welcomed me with open arms when I first came to this site. People like you and Skylar and Ox and Claudia and Candy (and so many others) made me feel at home, where no one else seemed to understand me in my own real life. Part of the whole recovery process after the psychopath is EXTREME emotional swings.
I’m thinking all KatyDid meant was for you to make sure to focus on positive, good things in life so that bad thoughts and repeated mistakes don’t become a habit (the mind is funny like that. it just rewires itself the more it thinks about something, so it becomes almost an addiction). But as long as you’re doing your best and healing, you should never worry about sharing those less-happy thoughts. No one should go through that alone. But as Ox has said, don’t let your mind self destruct and turn it into a habit! YOU have control over your mind, and even if it wants to focus on bad thoughts, you shouldn’t let it!
As long as we are all supportive of one another, we can begin to move on and find happiness. No one’s going to find happiness by pretending these emotional streaks don’t exist. Your genuine and honest nature is endearing to me, and I hope you won’t stop sharing your feelings, but do take care of yourself and remember to take a step back sometimes and introspect a bit! It’ll help you get out of those really bad moments.
Thank you for all of your help and support so far, and I hope you know I’m always around to listen, even on the worst of days 🙂 We all know this is a rocky ride. At least we’re in it together!
Oh, and just to throw this out there, sometimes when I’m feeling like I really need to vent, I just go for a run. It solves a lot 😀 Simple solution, but every psychologist told me exercise would make the depression/anger go away. They were right!
KatyDid, I’m not criticizing you. I find your analysis right on. I just want to show my support for my friend LL because, personally, I never felt her messages to be drama bombing. I’m glad you’re also on her side and want what’s best for her as well. It would be great if you could share with her any of the constructive techniques you learned to get through this painful process. But I know she was hurt by the term “drama bombing” and is considering not posting again on lovefraud.
On any website where there are so many people recovering from painful experiences with psychopaths there are bound to be some sensitivities and hurt feelings sometimes. I just hope that this one will be worked out as well, as was my earlier misunderstanding about one of Hen’s emails, as were many other kinks before. After all, we’re here to support one another as much as we can. I’m sure that’s what you intended to do, but I really hope you can let LL know this as well, so that she doesn’t feel rejected by you or by lovefraud, since, in fact, she’s not.
And some more techniques for feeling better, because I’m procrastinating homework and would rather see you smile 🙂
1. Meditation — Put on some beautiful music (Pachebel’s Canon works nicely, or some chants), light a candle, and focus all of your energy on it. You will notice your mind wandering– ignore it! This takes PRACTICE and DISCIPLINE. Keep telling your mind to think about the candle, and just the candle. If you practice this every night, your mind will start to rewire itself. It’s all in the physical chemistry, and YOU can be in charge of it if you are mindful of it!
2. Thankfulness — Make a list of things you are happy for. Start at the most BASIC level: breathing! Work your way up from there. I think you’ll have quite a big list 🙂
3. Yoga — Just do it! I promise it helps!
4. Positive Energy — Take a shower and blast some happy music (I do the Lion King). Sing along, smile, love yourself. Tell yourself that you love yourself. This is YOUR time, not HIS time. Who cares if he can be faithful with someone else? YOU DON’T! All you care about is Hakuna Matata, my friend 🙂
Feel better <3
Claudia. I did post an emotionally empowering technique that really helped me. It’s a type of soul cleansing. I’d write on paper whatever was bothering me (venting!) and then burn it. Writing and then physically purging the words is psychological but has its roots in ancient religious practices.
However, this is not a one way street. We have responsibilities to others. LL does need to consider that her words impact others (such as when she discusses her relationship with her kids….) When she posts like that, it MORE than dramatic, she enters into childhood memory rage. LL and I also share horrible childhood abuse. Her trama is NOT just from her ex, it is childhood trauma that has never been processed. I understand b/c I’ve been there. She needs more than hugs and logic. She needs empowerment to get out of that cycle of feeling helpless and unworthy (her complaint is that she wasn’t fully psychologically abused i.e. lovebombed!). And I am not much of a friend if I merely enable her and not offer another perspective.
If she choses to take a break from posting, maybe it would not be a bad idea since she feels so triggered. Maybe her time should be in pursing emotional empowerment rather than a venue for self abusive cyclical rage labeled as venting.
KatyDid, I’m sure you and LL can communicate about this productively later on. You seem to have a lot of insight into what she’s experienced, the childhood trauma, everything you mention in your posts. I just wanted to emphasize that she’s appreciated here on lovefraud, since she’s been so kind, open and supportive to many of us.
Claudia/New Winter.
Thank you very, very much. I appreciate so much your responses. New Winter, you are correct. This is something that I genuinely struggle with. Posting it and sharing my feelings about it, getting feedback, for me is much like setting me back on the right track.It’s also honest and from my heart. It’s what I am dealing with. I don’t know ONE person here who has not ruminated about a situation over and over during process. I’ve made a lot of strides here and in my life at home and with others. The “announcement” by my “friend” hurt me deeply. It was unexpected and something I did NOT need to hear. It was a set back, thus setting into motion thoughts and obsessing I’ve been working so hard to get past. There is still much work to be done and I recognize this. Perhaps, for some, it is slower for me. “No one is going to find happiness by pretending these emotional streaks don’t exist”…and that is probably the single most healing statement I’ve heard in a long, LONG time!! I appreciate your perceptiveness, New Winter. Being honest about my feelings, and the freedom to express them, has done so much for my healing journey. I know I can be frustrating as much as I am frustrated with myself at times. It’s also part of learning how to be patient with myself when this happens.
Katy, I’m sorry you feel the way you do. But your post felt attacking and hurtful to me. Particularly what I felt to be an implied accusation that I was “drama bombing” this blog. Contrary to what I felt was an implied accusation (UNTRUE), it is a genuine feeling and remains as such. Again there isn’t ONE person on this board who has not suffered (particularly early on in healing) obsessive or intrusive thoughts from time to time. To imply what my motives are, invalidates what I’m going through and feeling, as well as it hurts me personally because there are many here that I DO care for a great deal and share in their pain, my compassion, so on hold, now slowly opening up, as well as in depth introspection. As it was with spath, I WILL NOT apologize for feeling as I do nor for what my process is. If you do not agree with what I’m posting, in pain and grief, then please don’t respond to it.
I can share what would be helpful to me however, from you: Share with me what helped YOU process your ex and his horrible deeds done.
Katy, I want to share this with you, despite feeling hurt about your post.
I was married to my exP for 20 years. We share six children together. I’m not a serial cheater. I was faithful to my husband. He cheated on me constantly. CONSTANTLY, but this wasn’t done behind my back, as he lived with a few of his cheats, this happened quite blatantly and in front of me….in front of my children. I understand how it FEELS to be cheated on. To be so betrayed. I’m NOT insensitive to you, but I DO feel a level of anger at OW’s in general. If this is inaccurate, please feel free to say so. I’m NOT in ANY WAY trying to “validate” my involvement, but what this situation has brought me, was a gift in some ways in understanding the women that were so duped by my ExP during our marriage. They LOVED him. And it was GENUINE (except for ONE woman who I believe was also psychopath!), he told them tall dark tales about what a bitch I was. I GET IT. I don’t BLAME them, nor do I harbor any anger. One of this “OW’S” recently passed away. She was a kind, loving, caring woman. I GRIEVED her passing. She has five beautiful children. I have contact with one of them. Her ex husband, was a friend from high school. My exP lived with her and duped her for a year during our marriage. I reach out to her child, who requested to be on my FB because HE is hurting over the loss of his mother……….my ex P’s OW!!!
I have heard of the pain inflicted by my exP that she suffered when he came back to ME! It is SICKENING to me. At the time, I felt I’d “won”. Whatever. I didn’t win SHIAT, but MORE pain. It’s not HER fault that HE LIED to her! I don’t blame, nor fault her. There is a memorial page set up to honor her on fb, as if she is alive and could respond. It was set up by her mother, someone I now have come to know and love. I accepted that friend request in memory of SHE, not HIM. She didn’t DESERVE the lies he told her about me. She didn’t DESERVE to be abandoned by him, when she fell ill and I was the next best thing to Christ for him, because he had no options and I could have sex…..
So you see, Katy, sometimes, things aren’t what you believe them to be. Motives may not be, what you think they are….
This DOES NOT in anyway, excuse my involvement with him….but I DO understand how it could be, that one of his “Cheats” could have bought his bullshit. The same way YOUR ex’s cheats, bought yours.
Thank you all for your love and support. New Winter, Claudia, especially you two. Thank you for giving me the dignity to speak in honesty.
BTW, NW? I couldn’t sign up for the gym today because I ran into a glitch with my final for my one and only class today. I’ve had to concentrate and focus on that today, but you can bet your bottom dollar that once the send button is pushed and that assignment is DONE, I’ll be at the gym tomorrow…with my petty 25 dollars to start my membership and hang out with my friends who have GENTLY encouraged me to join and have emotionally supported me. Thank you. I can’t WAIT to do it. It’s worth the money and the time.
Blessings.
LL