Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
robxsykobabe –
“have tried to see how I had contributed to the ’problems’ and what I need to do differently (minus the obvious fact of staying away from whack jobs). …I can ’cop an attitude” when irritated, hurt, upset, frustrated, ect. I can speak in a rude tone. When I get angry (I mean REALLY angry) I say things I should NOT say. I also have pretty bad PMS”
So as I reflect back on this ’relationship’, I try to empathize with HIM regarding MY behavior, which at times, could be challenging. I know this”I am human however, I am NOT blaming myself. ”
No. No. No. (And again, no). How do I know the answer is no? Because I was an ANGEL to the Superspath. A martyr, a slave and as perfect a wife (and stepmother to his child) as anyone could be; this is not just my assessment of the situation, but also that of HIS parents, HIS siblings and HIS former friends. People would be shocked when they learned that I was not my stepson’s “real” mother, because of how we were together, because of how I treated him and constantly showed my love for and patience with him (he was a VERY trying child with MANY issues).
While it is always good to be introspective with the aim of improving ourselves, it is counter-productive to do this in the context of analysing our relationshits (spelling intentional) with spaths. It is NOT like a normal relationship (spelling intentional) where each person exhibits both strengths and weaknesses which impact on the relationship. Relationshits with spaths are intrinsically ABNORMAL; they are based on a much different premise from the start; only one person (the victim) is actually IN the relationshit; the spath is only pretending. It is impossible to draw any fair comparisons about a spath relationshit, since this is the case with them.
It is not like anything else – anything that is normal or proper. It is fake, rude, improper, vulgar, treacherous, dangerous, dishonest, opportunistic, parasitic, viscious, tricky and evil. To ask ourselves what we could have differently to effect our relationshit with a spath is like asking ourselves what we might have done differently to effect how a pedophile might have treated us when we were a child. The answer to this is simple: NOTHING. There was – and is – NOTHING – we could do to change the mind of, or the plans and machinations of, a spath.
Spaths will always do what spaths do. They never stop scheming and they only ever stop briefly when thwarted temporarily, to regroup and then launch an attack some other way.
We are powerless to change their minds or their plans, or to influence their behaviours and actions. The ONLY power we have is over ourselves: we have the power to learn to SPOT them and AVOID them. We have the power to become uninteresting to them by refusing to buy into their drama; the power to be a grey rock; the power to institute NO CONTACT.
By using what power we have over our OWN behaviour, we are able to minimise, reduce or avoid their impact on our lives.
Even bringing them down – backspathing them or having them brought to any kind of justice – whilst satisfying if able to be managed, will only ever result in a temporary glitch for a spath. Inside the prisons, they regroup and continue to scheme their schemes. I am sure that Donna’s spath will die incontinent in a wheelchair, dribbling his porridge down his chin and still scheming. Total disablement or death are the only things that have any true power over them; all we can hope to do is remove ourselves from the games they play.
NOTHING you could have done, robxsykobabe, to alter the outcome you are now dealing with. Nothing.
Aussiegirl, what you say in your note above is so eloquent and true. The statement below is particularly important, especially in couples’ therapy, where the assumption is that both partners need to work on themselves and improve. In real relationships that may be true, but psychopathic bonds are not based on any real mutuality. I love your spelling distinctions too between real relationships and psychopathic relationshits:). They capture the difference.
“While it is always good to be introspective with the aim of improving ourselves, it is counter-productive to do this in the context of analysing our relationshits (spelling intentional) with spaths. It is NOT like a normal relationship (spelling intentional) where each person exhibits both strengths and weaknesses which impact on the relationship. Relationshits with spaths are intrinsically ABNORMAL; they are based on a much different premise from the start; only one person (the victim) is actually IN the relationshit; the spath is only pretending. It is impossible to draw any fair comparisons about a spath relationshit, since this is the case with them.”
Claudia –
Thanks, but I can’t take the credit for “relationshits” – I have a feeling that one belongs to either one/joy or skylar or Hens….(or maybe EB or Ox)…anyhow, whoever it was, it goes back a LONG way, as do many of the LF words here –
spath
spathological
spathetic
Aussiegirl, at any rate, relationshits is the right word:). The expressions “there are two sides to every story,” or “it takes two to tango,” don’t really apply to these relationshits. I’m getting used to the lovefraud lingo: spath, spathetic, grey rock, potted plant:).
LL,
I do not ever claim to know anothers motives and did not do so with you. No one knows what is in anothers head. I don’t appreciate being lumped in with your spath. Nowhere in my posts will you see a demand from me for an apology for your having feelings.
I acknowledge you had a certain experience with your ex’s ow, but that does not entitle you to know the mindset of ow you’ve never met. I am the one who personally knows many of my husbands ow (our employee, our tenant, the sec at our creamery, the neighbor, the mother of my daughter’s bully, etc.) – and they were NOT fooled, he picked ones who were his eager minions. NOT even close to the same as you, your experience, or your ex’s ow… and not deserving of empathy any more than my spath is.
However, I am beyond all that ow stuff when I realized I didn’t want the man he truly was and that HE was NOT EVER the man he pretended to be. Now I get to live MY life without mindgames and undisclosed betrayals. I got to this place by NOT lying to myself anymore. To thine own self, BE TRUE. THAT was MY healing mantra.
I have never hidden my philosophy of self responsibility and empowerment as my tools to heal from abusive relationships. I have been supportive with you enough times to recognize a cyclic pattern where you emotionally abuse yourself as I and others write countless posts on multiple threads to try to logic you out of it and you spin and spin into high drama and then have a calm cycle… and it starts again. You’re not ruminating or processing. You’re cycling b/c it’s the same trauma pattern each time. I’d be remiss if I didn’t encourage you to find what it takes to self soothe – I gave one powerful example but it’s dif for everyone.
I know the dif between enabling and empowering. One propagates, the other is healing. One offers avoidance, the other is usually painful, as it entails self responsibility which is NOT a fun thing but is necessary for growth and maturity.
Wishing you the best,
Katy
Aussiegirl,
You are right. It is counter productive to analyse a relationship with spaths. The way forward is to reclaim empowerment of ourselves (b/c we lost it when with the soul suckers), and re-establish self responsibility. IF we are blessed, our spath has a new soul to feed on and we are left in peace to glue our broken pieces together and with new wisdom, pledge to never again dismiss our red flags.
I think Hens gets credit for “relation-shits” (not 100% sure about that) so if my memory is faulty Please forgive me…
Oxy, “Relationshit” goes with what I used to call scholarship that was filled with tons of technical jargon but said nothing (or nothing much) once you decoded it in real English: scholarshit! I guess Hens and I were on the same wavelength but didn’t know it.
Katy,
Your observations of me and my “moitives” are inaccurate. what you believe you are “seeing” as cyclical, are nothing more than what has been exercised here over and over with others who have suffered the same pain and ruminating.
It is clear that we are at an impasse. We won’t always agree, however, i have found invaluable friendships here on LF, and enormous healing for me in validating my experiences.
It is also cyclical to me, that you are have a HUGE issue with OW’s. That is no longer an issue I have to take on, as I have enough on my own plate now with regards to that. I have a lot of compassion for those who have been spathed, having been on both sides of the fence, whether OW or wife. I harbor no anger at my exP’s OW’s.
We are all here for the same reasons. We were ALL spathed in one way or another. It doesn’t matter why. You labeled me incorrectly and continue to do so.
I think it best that we “grey rock” one another on this site to prevent triggering other posters who may be experiencing the same pain.
Thank you.
LL
I think that’s a GREAT idea. I’ll gladly participate in that. I’m done.