Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Yep If you look at Rosanne Barr on a bad day, ya kinda get an idea of my looks.
But I am happy with my lot. Good looking men actually enjoy talking to me, as long as they aren’t dumb as posts. Sorry I’ve no patience for arrogant emptyheaded mannekins.
Right Katy, even among the non psychopathic men is difficult to find decent ones. They’re dominant and often promiscuous, they have it in their genes. And that’s right the ugliest ones have a tendency to nastiness because they hardly ever fuck without involving lot of money, flattery, time, energy.
p.s. although i may look like a bad version of Rosanne Barr, at least I don’t sound like her. She cackles with that duck voice.
Katy
ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROSEANNE BARR????
I know some nice men. Problem is they’re all taken or they’re gay.
More the former than latter I think….
Katy, I don’t remember the conversation about your past. I still have trouble figuring out details of others backgrounds now. Just pieces here and there that I associate (inaccurately) with others here, or that I’ve forgotten about or never asked about…
ROSEANNE BARR?????
Naw.
LL
What makes us their prey?
We look different. We look like children to them. There is a childlike quality about us. It comes from having our emotions close to the surface. We react emotionally and they feed on it. But even when we aren’t reacting, our faces betray us. We display our emotions on our faces more quickly than others do. We have thin skins. These things are partially the result of our upbringing, partially from not being completely grown up. No offence to anyone here.
These are my opinions/observations. Why do I think these things? because I can see it in people too. I can tell someone who has been abused sometimes just by looking at them. There is something childlike about them. the way they move and their posture. They seem unselfconscious.
People – strangers, open up and talk to me and within a few minutes they will tell me what they think of their families and parents. It’s usually very dramatic. “normal” people don’t open up as much and they don’t attract attention either.
But the question still remains, what brought on the attention/scapegoating from our spath/narc parents? Why was I chosen to be a scapegoat instead of the golden child?
I guess I wasn’t charming enough. 🙁
Oh well, better to be a scapegoat than a spath 🙂
The onnly thing I liked her in was “she devil” and I thought that movie was really funny….I think her character was a psychopath though and the ex husband she destroyed just a jerk. Great concept for a movie though.
Sky,
As always something to think about. Growing up…yea…it’s said that spaths are stunted, some likened to a 13 year old, P’s to about five. I think 13 is pretty accurate. I wonder though, if I stopped “growing” at a certain point and I agree with that. When did it STOP happening? Fifteen? Eighteen?
Sky, that is the most mind boggling thing about spaths and something I noticed too in that they enjoy our reactions. My spath would say shit just to get a reaction from me. I wondered what the creepy smile was about when the goal was accomplished. I could never “read” his facial expressions, except when he smiled. Everything else was blank. ONe of the things that I noticed toward the end of the relationshit is how he would talk on the phone, would have the VERBAL expression, but his face remained UNCHANGED. It was the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen.
I do think you’re right in that they can read our facial expression and body language WELL. I noticed that mine looked at my face A LOT….I wonder, a predatory inclination? A possible desire to do harm? Dunno…..it just creeped me out though.
I never saw this with my spath fam. That’s what gets me. My father always looked either angry, or he was using what is his great sense of humor with a smile, etc. I never saw the predatory look, with the exception of ONE time when he approached me in my room. I don’t think they all have it. My sister had a wierd look that I now think was similar…she would watch my reactions to things to and let me speak then say something completely negative. LIke she was never genuine.
I could never read my brother. He was pretty expressionless, unless he was freaking out about something, throwing things around or beating the crap out of things in his house…
Ugh.
Better to be a scapegoat than a spath? How about better to have been neither. 🙂
HOw ya feelin Skylar, things going well?
LL
Skylar, Can we take a poll? How many spaths/narcs treated their children as the golden child versus how many victimized their kids in some method of abuse?
I have a friend who is beautiful, but as the “golden’ child was her mother’s human doll, all dressed up but not allowed feelings or desires or goals or hopes and dreams. Spaths/narcs are missing the parenting component. Not logical to think any healthy childhood is possible when spath/narc by definition are incapable to provide it.
Katy,
My sister was THE golden child. Contrary to what you’re saying here, she was ENCOURAGED to be successful. Was ENCOURAGED to be “more funny’ (my spath fam, does undoubtedly possess great senses of humor), more outgoing, more beautiful (and she was that for sure), by BOTH spath daddy (who got her her first job out of college) and my N mother (who was severely dependent upon her) and now that she’s a mother, I see her doing the SAME thing to her eldest child. She has four children. ONE of them is the child I relate most too and is made FUN OF by my sister because she’s NOT as attractive and VERY Sensitive. It’s subtle, but it’s there. A scapegoat in the making. ALL are PUSHED to dysfunctional degrees of success, all in an effort to make spath sis mother of the year. It’s all about image.
Sky, I had, I think, an A-HA! moment here. Just want to run it by you.
I think that the obsessing about my being the OW, seeing what new gf and ex wife had (they didn’t, but he made sure I thought they did-symbols again), isn’t the issue. I think you were right, and then something dawned on me: Scapegoating. Katy had mentioned that. I WAS the scapegoat. So this is a pattern that evolved from childhood that I continued into adulthood. Exspath used me, not just for sex, but also as a scapegoat for himself. When my scapegoating services were no longer required, he became more juvenile, demanding, abusive….to where I wanted out.
It was the same thing as with ExP too and I can see the connection, alongside with the triangulations my spath parents set up over and over again….
That really pisses me off!
LL
LL,
still running late, but this conversation is too interesting to forget about.
Spaths target children and women most often. I noticed it too about my uncle spath. He liked to make fun of us kids, just to watch us squirm. Later he killed his wife with cancer by mortifying her with his affairs in the open. I hope he gets his comeupance.
Katy,
My parental units had 2 golden children and 1 scapegoat and one that they just left alone. She i