Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
I truly wish I was teasing you.
Insane stuff, huh?
Dear Trimama,
DO NOT FALL FOR IT. DO NOT LISTEN. IF HE COMES TO YOUR WORK, DO NOT TALK TO HIM. POTTED PLANT. TREAT HIM LIKE A POTTED PLANT.
You KNOW this man is DANGEROUS—remember, picture in your mind—HIS HANDS CHOKING YOUR THROAT—NEXT TIME HE MAY NOT STOP BEFORE YOU DIE!
REMEMBER JESSICA, she is DEADDDDD!!!! My son killed her because he was angry at her. Your P is wanting a place to stay, money and cigarettes—he wants you to take care of him, but he has NO REAL REMORSE because people who are good people do NOT STRANGLE OTHERS, THEY DO NOT MOOCH OFF OTHERS. THEY DO NOT TREAT PEOPLE LIKE HE HAS TREATED YOU.
HE IS EVIL!!!!
Go back to No Contact. NONE! ZIP! ZERO! NADA! ZILCH!!!! Don’t let him suck you back inside his web…next time you may die, just like Jessica did because she trusted my psychopathic son. SHE KNEW he was dangerous but she still went with him and it cost her her life. She was 17 years old. She did not deserve to die because he conned her, and neither do you. But the CHOICE IS YOURS, TO DO WHAT YOU KNOW IS RIGHT OR LISTEN TO HIM. But YOU get the consequences of your choices, just like Jessica did. I hope you are wiser than she was. ((hugs))) and God bless you. Make the choice that you KNOW is good for YOU.
Thanks Ox
I needed the voice of reason to take the place of mine which was caving to the seduction.
He knows exactly what to say and do to get me re-connected.
I did have coffee with him and spend time, enough to hear his tales of pseudo-remorse.
While very carefully implanting distrust between my neighbor and I.
Very clever.
She is a sweetie, but he was over there a lot. I guess I figured that since she was elderly, there was nothing going on.
And he is in his forties.
Silly me.
So he screws an 18 year old sexual abuse survivor, an elderly and very lonely neighbor. And all manner of other people.
And I feel badly for his tortured soul. He is suffering. No one in their right mind acts as he does.
That is what it comes down to. I see his pain.
And I allow that to matter more than my own.
But I hear you Ox: Jessica.
Yes, trimama, insane. It’s a suicide. I had no idea of the psysical aggressivity. It has no sense such a low instinct of surviving by your side, he’ll kill you anyday if you don’t throw him out of your life.
Dear Trimama,
Sex to them doesn’t matter if it is male or female many times, old or young, it is just SEX—they would screw a snake if someone would hold it for them. There is NO connection between them and anyone or anything that they have sex with….it is just ANIMAL behavior…for their own satisfaction. They do not care about anyone except themselves.
DO NOT even speak to him, much less listen to him or go have coffee with him, if you do, I can almost guarantee that he will suck you back into his web, and you are PLAYING WITH FIRE, AND YOU ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE with a dangerous man.
YOU MUST LOVE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU CAN PROTECT YOURSELF…and you CAN love yourself if you look at the situation logically and reasonably and NOT EMOTIONALLY.
To him it is just a game, and you are just a pawn, just a piece of meat to screw, mooch off of and beat on and strangle if he is angry.
Trimama, ONLY YOU CAN SAVE YOURSELF….I can and the people here can remind you that you are important, and that he is dangerous, but we can’t save you—only YOU can do that.
Mama,
We are all responsible for our own choices. Prior to your becoming GENUINELY AWARE (particularly through this blog) that you were dealing with a violent psychopath, many women are trauma bonded to them and I don’t believe are responsible for what HE does to her. AT ALL, HOWEVER, I believe that when she DOES become aware, GENUINELY aware, SHE can make better choices that say HE cannot CHOOSE to do away with her.
This is where your personal safety is truly a choice you are making with your new awareness, Mama. Going to coffee with him and listening to his PITY PLOY, is the same as asking a SNAKE TO GO AHEAD AND BITE YOU, RIGHT NOW.
Sooooo, let’s look at this another way…you feel sorry for a man who had no mercy upon you while he practically had an orgasm when his hands were around YOUR NECK? See how silly that sounds?
Now that you are AWARE you are RESPONSIBLE to make CHOICES that keep you SAFE!!! Now that you are AWARE (removing ALL DOUBT) of what you’re dealing with, HE CAN’T CHOOSE TO KILL YOU IF YOU CHOOSE TO STAY AWAY AND OUT OF CONTACT WITH HIM.
He trolls the neighborhood? Wow. I would move.
There are choices here you can still make. WIth this new AWARENESS, it really is up to you now.
LL
The trauma bond does not weaken through awareness alone.
I wish it were that easy.
That said, I get what you are saying and came here to be reminded of the insanity of this situation.
It is easy to fall under his spell.
And I appreciate the wake up call.
I did not resuce him. I listened to him stupidly, enough to hear the inconsistencies and to remind myself how much he hurts me with the lies.
I did not buy cigarettes nor give money nor spend the night nor any of the other things he would have campaigned for.
I just listened to him. Over coffee. In a public place, with a policeman circling nearby.
Next time, I may be strong enough to chose not to do even that.
Mama,
It’s good that you came here. can you do that next time BEFORE you see him again?
NC is NO CONTACT EVER, NOT EVER AGAIN, not even for COFFEE to listen to his endless BS.
Mama, I don’t mean to sound insensitive to you. I understand. Unfortunately, I went back for the “one glass of wine to listen to his bullshit” too many times.
It’s only easy to fall under his spell IF YOU ALLOW IT TOO. YOU have choices. You can CHOOSE NOT TO LISTEN TO HIM AT ALL. Just because you didn’t sleep with him, buy him cigarettes, or whatever he wanted, doesn’t mean a victory, although it is small progress. The BIGGEST VICTORY is NC COMPLETELY!
Mama? You’re only as strong as you believe. I BELIEVE, FOR YOU, that you’re stronger than you think you are.
You see, right now, the reality that you even bothered to meet him for coffee, tells HIM that YOU are still open to his BS and are WEAK in HIS eyes. Easily controlled, STILL…the idea is NOT to be and take YOUR power back.
Each time you see him, it poisons you, Mama. How long are you WILLING to drink the poison?
Awareness IS they key. It is because then it gives YOU the option to decide as to whether or not the trauma bond continues.
It’s painful as hell,this awareness, but if you can get the strength to go completely NC and not allow the man to suck you back in, read, educate yourself about trauma bonds and psychopaths, things will fall into place.
But I can tell you, 100% that there isn’t a chance in hell of that happening as long as you’re willing to entertain the idea of him in anyway and allow contact.
He isn’t worth listening too. And a cop in a public place is not going to serve you well in private if he decides that you’re rejecting him.
LL
Dear Trimama,
The AWARENESS is the START of freedom, but it is up to you to take that freedom, to choose freedom and to point you compass toward that freedom.
You ARE stronger than you know you are…you do NOT have to give in to him, to allow him to control you. YOu made a GOOD step today in not giving him money or giving in to him and taking him home with you.
He WILL be back because he is running out of “supply” (someone to mooch off of) and they go back to someone who has supplied them in the past, just like ErinBrock’s bear kept coming back to her house because once he found food there so he keeps on coming back. They feed where ever they have found food before and in the past you have “fed him.” He thinks he owns you and will say WAHTEVER he thinks you want to hear, once he has you back, then it is back to strangling you.
But it is YOUR choice, and your life. We’re here if you need us. ((hugs)))
AGREED!!!!