Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
well I deleted my comment to Trimamma because her description of her X always trigger’s me big time….but I think Trimamma is doing great, we have all been where she is now….HUGZ to you mamma…..hens
Trimama
Typing on my phone beaar w/me please
He didn’t want money. He has money and cigarettes. He lied, he ALWAYS lies about every thing. He just came to do maintainance. To keep you strung along on your addiction to his drama. You gave him exactly what he wanted, the expressions on your face. They suck up emotions and you fed him yours. PLEASE DON’T FEED THE SPATHS!
You had an opportunity to begin the process of removing the parasite by removing the feed tube of emotions. You could have sat there yawning, told him you are on prozac and can’t feel toomuch. That is grey rock and that is what its for.
Trimama,
My next door neighbor, who is a very sweet 35-y.o. woman, came over for a massage this past weekend. She was married to an abusive man who sounds a lot like yours. He hit her and hurt her so many times that she now cannot have any children because of him. She finally got the nerve to leave him, and now she has a wonderful boyfriend. He treats her very well, but she does not trust him because of what she’s been through. He was living with her, and she felt overwhelmed so she asked him to move out temporarily so she could get her head together. Meantime, guess who came back? Yep, her ex husband. She met him for coffee. He told her she was the best thing that ever happened to him and that he was a fool for how he treated her. Never mind that when they were together, he tore her down physically, psychologically, and emotionally. She actually sat there and felt sorry for him and considered taking him back!!!!!!!!!!
Trimama, I’m hoping if you read this you will see how absurd it is to hear about it happening to someone else. My neighbor loves kids. She is hispanic and from a big family where family is very important to her. She will never be able to have kids because of what her ex did to her. And yet she STILL feels sorry for him! He told her at the coffee shop that they belong together. I’m afraid for her life now because he feels like he owns her. She never went to the police or filed any charges, so there is no documentation for a restraining order.
The thing is, you may not “feel” over him for a long time. You may feel very attached and in love with him. You may feel like you belong together. That’s normal. But if you listen to your feelings, you will probably end up hurt or dead. This is where you need to listen to your head and what other people are telling you. Your feelings will eventually follow, but it might take a while. It takes strength to walk away from an addiction. If you didn’t have the cravings, it would be easy, wouldn’t it? But that’s not the nature of addiction. Addiction is addicting. When you break an addiction, you will probably feel like you will die without the person or substance you are addicted to. But you don’t die. You feel that way for a while. Then you get stronger. We’ve all been through it in one way or another, and we lived to tell the story.
I wish you all my best. I see that there are many people here who care for you and who are here for you. We all want you to succeed!
Hugs,
Star
And BTW, all these snake references are offensive. LOL (I am a snake lover for those who don’t know).
Trimama, You are getting some excellent advice, here. I especially agree with Stargazers assessment of this dynamic as an addiction. Even though you only went for coffee, you relapsed, and only reactivated the addiction.
It’s like the alcoholic who isn’t drinking, but spends all his time in the bar…eventually he’s going to drink, he hasn’t changed the persons, places or things in his life that trip him up.
When the desire to engage in our addictive behavior is activated, we fall back into denial, and start playing all kinds of mind games with ourselves, because WE WANT our addiction, so we lie to ourselves. We might be saying to ourselves something like, “oh, it really wasn’t THAT bad”, or something like, “Well, THIS time it will be different”.
Spaths use the pity ploy to reactivate our desires. They do it cause it works. Now you are back in your head, and doubting yourself, feeling sorry for him, and wanting him, even though you know it’s insane.
NC, NC, NC. It’s the only thing that breaks the trauma bond.
Incidently, every time you cave, and let him back into your life, you strenthen that trauma bond.
I agree with Oxy, too. He’s running out of supply, so he’s back to feed on you. He feeds on your emotions, as Sky pointed out, but he also feeds on your generosity. Your willingness to supply him with a meal, a cigarette, a beer…whatever.
My Xspath would NOT work for a living, but expended an enormous amount of enery trying to figure out how to con a tbeer, or a cigarette out of somebody. It was how he got his kicks.
He lived off of me for 7 years. He’d do some dasterdly deed, I’d raise hell, he’d use that as an excuse to go missing, disappear for a couple of days, and get this: He’d come back with two cigarettes and a can of pork and beans…that was his offering, for God’s sake.
Please listen to these folks here at LF, and not to your own trauma bonded insanity, and stay away from him. Your thinking will change and you will see things in a new way. You will not feel so confuse and out of control. You will be at peace. It won’t be easy, but it is simple..NC!
Hi, Stargazer,
Thank yhou so much for taking thje time.
Your Hispanic friend’s story is mine.
It is so helpful to have experienced and kind people thinking for me when I acannot think well for myself. And you are right on: when in an addiction, there is no clear thought. Only primitive emotion and raw need.
I am belssed with many people in my life who know this man, and offer real insight as to his game. But none are more insightful than the words of what I read here. You all know psychopaths. And that is what he is. He keeps the people out here guessing and wondering while maintaininghis smoke and mirror act in a large city….where he moves about stealthily and destructively.
I did not see an innocent coffee as that damaging to myself because I knew I wasn’t going to give anything material to him. What I missed is that he wanted my soul, and got it. You are right in saying that he knew I am still in love by my excitement at seeing him and my attentiveness.
It cost me my resolve. I was doing pretty well until then. Well, sort of well.
So, yes, Skylar, you are so wise in saying that it was not about the “things”, it was about the lure and the ownership.
And he is a parasite, no question.
Thank you!
And Kim?
Wow! Strengthening the trauma bond was not something I considered. At all.
It all seemed so innocent. But you are right. I was not considering the head games I was playing with myself. I was so focused on fending off his.
He does exactly as yours did: disappear, come back to me all remorseful and pitiful. Offer lies about where he had been and with whom. And I would ‘rescue’ him, as I did my alcoholic mother in an effort to earn whatever crumbs of”love” she could spare.
The drama replays itself.
It almost feel as if I should suspend my own distorted judgment for the time being and take heeed of what I read here.
Thank you fo the guidance, caring friends!
You won’t believe this !
The Today Show has a piece on a man who conned four women today!
Psychopath!
Thank you for this post. It’s great! You are right, these actions are done with calculated intent to give them pleasure – with the end result of hurting us. The best thing, however, is to stop giving them our energy. Life works out. We caught onto their manipulation: others will, too.
Dear Trimama,
There is NOTHING ABOUT THEM THAT IS “INNOCENT” and nothing about interacting with them that is “innocent” even LISTENING TO THEM is pouring POISON IN OUR EARS—straight to our hearts.
Breathing the same air is POURING POISON IN OUR LUNGS, straight to our hearts.
Reading something they wrote is POURING POISON INTO OUR EYES, straight to our hearts and brains.
Everything about them is POISON just like X-RAYS even though you can’t see it, it DAMAGES EVERYTHING….
I’m glad that you are seeing that ANY CONTACT with him is dangeorus, it isn’t just about not giving him money or sex or a place to stay it is about ANY CONTACT AT ALL IS DAMAGING.
He doesn’t have to choke your throat to choke the LIFE out of you. There is more than one way to “murder” someone, you can murder their body (and I think yours is capable of that) but also to KILL THE SOUL AND SPIRIT as well.
DON’T LET HIM DO THIS TO YOU….YOU ARE STRONG IF YOU THINK YOU ARE. All you have to do is to BELIEVE YOU are strong and PRESTO!!!! YOU ARE STRONG. It really is like magic, if YOU BELIEVE! THEN YOU ARE!!!!
You do NOT have to allow this man to have power over you. As soon as you make up your mind to take back that power, IT IS YOURS. Hold firm. It is YOUS!!! If you believe, but you MUST BELIEVE FOR IT TO BE TRUE. But if you believe it IS TRUE! (((hugs)))) God bless and keep you safe!