Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Okay….okay I was feeling really accomplished for going almost 2 weeks now without talking to him at all, so I guess I thought I’d push myself harder more and more with time.
Okay….okay time to cut that out too. I don’t know why I feel like I need to keep looking over my shoulder. It’s some sort of hyper-paranoia, but I need to just knock it off.
Thanks for getting on my case. You are right.
Panther – I understand the hyper-vigilance, and that you are still trauma bonded to him. It takes time, but nc will truly set you free. Even when i write stuff to the DA about the spath, it tweaks me.
I need to be in control of my own head, and I am not yet at the point when I don’t get tweaked when i come into contact with that bullshit. so, I never look at what she’s doing. But i can and do look at what other’s are doing about her, and contribute. Every now and then that tweaks me, too, so i back off for awhile.
I was involved in a full scale sleuth action when i figured it all out. For months. I needed to do it – I needed to understand. I couldn’t not do it for my own sanity, but it also cost me. It’s a double edged sword. some of us here need to keep tabs on their movements for our own safety and because we have kids with them, or because we are actively involved in blocking them and causing them trouble anonymously.
I don’t think your moron is going to come to where you are. I think he is too lazy to tell you the truth – he didn’t even bother to tell his spath friend that he was conning you about the suicide. laziness is one of my fave spath traits. mine has it also. bless her heart.
But, if you think he may, my offer of finding someone within the police force still stands. Some of my network could cause him a great deal of trouble. He has no idea.
back to nc….get the betrayal bond and read it. really good book and it will help you to break the foundations that allowed you to work against your own best interests.
about their ‘gift’ of no conscience. in answer to your question: yes and no. At times I think I would like to be a bloody cold hearted as the spath is. but the truth is i have a conscience and when i act spathy it hurts, because for a person with a consicence i can only act that way out of hate. don’t know if that is the same for them or not. Now, what i have learned, is that i really need to look at people’s motivations. The spath taught me that in more than one way. I now question the motivations of people – what are their true goals. this is actually useful in business, and i wouldn’t give up my new sense ability and knowledge. I have learned to listen to lots of info from disparate sources and draw it together…and hold it closer to my chest. I have learned more about strategy and how to block bullshit. I recently kept my mouth shut about something that i was willing to quit my job over, until i had the ear of the right person at the right time. (and it all worked out well). I still have to learn to not give so much info away to people though. I think that is more a function of loneliness than anything else…and still wanting to trust people the way i did before.
‘spath-back’ can be important – this is when we use their tactics against them. But it comes at a cost, and that is the loss of balance we may experience if we do it too often or don’t have a counter balance. it’s tricky (no pun intended) and needs to be approached cautiously. EB is the mistress of the spathback, but many people here have learned to use the spath’s traits against them. AND THE BIGGEST ONE IS: IGNORE THEM. DON’T FEED THE SPATHS – INCLUDING THEIR PRESENCE INSIDE YOUR HEAD.
One/Joy, excellent advice to Panther!
sanity is getting closer on the horizon joyce.
One/Joy: Awesome words! Wow! Thank you for that. I do intend to read that book as soon as I can afford to buy it. I also want to finish The Gift of Fear. It went missing when I was halfway through it when I lived with my ex….maybe I lost it…..probably I didn’t.
Yes, you really got it. I am torn between wanting to walk away clean and feeling like turning my back completely will make me more vulnerable and I’m afraid of that. I also have this obsession with wanting to answer WHY WHY WHY!!?!??! That doesn’t help, because I think even if I get the answer (possibly I already have stumbled upon it) it won’t make sense to me, because from what I am gathering, sociopaths are simply from another planet and we can only get so close to understanding them and that’s it. And also you really nailed it that everything “tweaks” me a little. I think this is the PTSD part.
Yeah, he is LAZY. I lived with him. Oh, I KNOW about that one. He actually told me once that he likes to leave loose ends, because he really wants to be caught and punished. That is some weird headtrip stuff right there. Freaking weirdo. Did you see American Psycho? At the end, he actually suffers the most because he doesn’t get PUNISHED for his crimes. That crumbles him. Very peculiar psychology. It makes me wonder if deep down they want someone to catch them, see them for what they are, and then punish them to FORCE them to stop living in this terrifying world that they think is surrounding them but only exists in their heads, a world without trust, where everyone preys on each other, and no one can love. By “force” I mean for someone to scream LOUDLY over their deaf ears that THEY ARE DIFFERENT and most people are a lot nicer….so they can stop being jerks now and just relax. Maybe this is just for a certain brand of spath, the type who maybe holds a deep seeded fear that they need to act as they do to protect themselves because everyone around them is the same way. I get the feeling this belief might be there deep down for some.
Yes, you are right about the GOALS part. This is probably the area I am the most frustrated about. I cannot wrap my head around someone being that mean, but I can also see what a big difference there is between someone who tells a lie because they forgot the truth (like my schizophrenic grandpa) and someone who tells a lie because they want to hurt you, and the same thing for all the other spath traits. I am hoping I will walk away from all this one day with some skills that can be put to good use, as you are starting to do, as I gather.
About “spath-back” I LOVE THAT WORD!!! AHAHAHAH!!!! I considered this one many times while with him and even tried it. I simply don’t have it in me. I really tried, and believe me I am furious and have a lot of fuel to do some serious spath-back, but I just cannot drag such evil things out. The one time I really tried was when he was sending emails to himself pretending to be other people, other women who were in love with him. There were tons of identities and I completely bought it, hook-line-sinker. Yet ironically I tried sending a mail to myself, really short, pretending to be a guy interested in me. The reason is because all these women constantly talking about how much they love him, telling him that his stupid girlfriend the slut wasn’t a virgin and didn’t deserve him, and then ranting about how gorgeous they all were really hurt me! He would talk about them too, about how he used to know these people, they were old friends, they were ga ga over him, they all looked like models, bla bla bla. His responses and how he handled this hurt more. I felt like he had no idea how much this all hurt, and that was BEFORE I knew these people were all him. So, I sent myself a little email from a “guy” that claimed to be an old friend who used to love me. I wanted to see how he would respond, if he’d be hurt. No sooner did he read the email than I blurted out, “Sorry! He’s not real! I wrote it! Sorry!” It’s because the moment I thought of the man I love feeling pain like I felt, knowing I had caused it, I had to do something to stop it! I realized that maybe he would hurt when he read it and that made me almost cry myself. I foiled my own plan! I suck at spath-back!
Okay, I really need to read that book. I am “cleaning out” cluttered space in my mind. Slowly but surely, there will be room for less painful things in my head.
Panther,
I just “love” that deal about you are a slut because you are not a “virgin”….like HE IS a virgin? Or maybe it is just that it ONLY APPLIES TO WOMEN…not men. If you’re such a slut, then why does he want you at all? If you’re so worthless why does he bother with you? DUH?
Yes, clean out your head, and all the clutter that is in there about him. Make room for peace and JOY!
Actually that is EXACTLY what I was literally screaming at him during that time.
LOW AND BEHOLD he later “confessed” that he had been a virgin before me. He cried and got really dramatic about it, about how this is why he had lied to me about EVERYTHING up until that point, why he had hit me, strangled me, bla bla bla. Because he was a scared, poor poor little baby virgin at 25 and he thought I would hurt him, so he tortured me to keep me at a safe distance. Oh, bull crap. I cannot believe I bought it, but he was quite the actor. Oscar performance.
Yes, it is a double standard in Turkey. I’m bombing that country in my head right now.
I am signing off for the night. Take care
bye
Forgiveness is defined as: “1. Stop feeling angry or resentful toward (someone) for an offense, flaw, or mistake,” courtesy of google. Is forgiveness necessarily about the aggressor? Or is it catharsis for the victim? I know from first-hand experience… clinging to hatred only causes pain.
P.S. There’s no such thing as an accidental murder.
Panther, Yea, I believe that, sure. He may have been a virgin– if you didn’t count goats, camels or chickens….but so what? Does that mean he has a right to abuse you? Nah, I don’t think so.
PTHTHTTH!
Oxy,
LOL! goats, camels and chickens! hahaha!
you forgot to mention his good buddy. These types of guys are known for preferring their own kind.
One thing my spath would always say is, “my butt’s a virgin”.
Now, I get it. What normal, straight man would say such a thing? One whose butt is NOT a virgin. Oh, wait, he’s not normal or straight, he’s a spath.
He would also say, “I’m always worried that someone will accuse me of being a pedophile.” When I asked him why he would say such a thing. He responded with a long convoluted story about “when I was a teenager…”