Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Eclipse, Myers, Warrior–good posts.
Panther, I know what she tobehappy meant. Siblings are very close to each other (okay not all). I loved my younger brother dearly, all our lives. It hurts really, really bad when they, of all people, pull this crap on us. It doesn’t matter what they are, in reality, that bond is just really hard to break sometimes. It takes a ton of time, and sometimes they hurt us for the rest of our lives, even if we know better. Just because they cannot feel, doesn’t mean we can’t. It is hard to actually grasp the mind of a spath when you are loving and feeling.
I broke ties with my brother just a few months ago. I do still miss him and how he used to be. I am unsure of if he is a spath, but he is sure acting like one. I am not sure if he is just trying to please the spaths around him, or if he is one. I do not think I really want to believe that he might be one, too. I am not sure. The whole thing is confusing.
Anyway, I understand it.
Thanks for all of your responses concerning my sister.
I’m not sure she is a sociopath. She has been on SSI her entire life for mental disability. I have helped her raise her daughter. She was a single mom. I literally did everything for her daughter from birth until she was 15. She doesn’t even appreciate it and is now 29 and doesn’t even acknowledge me. She obviously forgot about all of those years.
During that time, my sister was always causing problems and we had lots of periods where we didn’t talk. She is considered the black sheep of the family…did drugs, ran away from home, etc. I was the only one who took care of her during her suicide attempts and visits in the psychiatric ward. She was my “little sister” and I felt sorry for her and always tried to help her through the years. She claimed that my grandfather sexually abused her when she was very young.
She lies a lot and believes her own lies.
All of the ten years I have been raising my girls alone, she was not around. She promised my mom ten yrs ago before she died that she would help me with my children. Never did. I didn’t see her until a few years ago when she relocated nearby.
3 yrs ago she was 2 blocks away from me here, at my brother’s house and when I was hospitalized for a week, she wouldn’t even help me out with my girls. I begged her to sleep over and just be here for them. They are independent and cook and do everything else for themselves. She wouldn’t help. She hung out a few blocks away doing nothing…She mooches off of people, gets sick of them, and then moves on.
So, I started talking to her again in Sept. I explained that if she wanted me in her life…she had to be 100%. I felt that we are getting older and we should be close. We joined the gym together and she was more reliable..sticking to her word and not breaking plans.
Then a few weeks ago, when she knew I was down and out about something…she disappeared. She was busy hanging out with her friend a few blocks away, who is a sick woman…steals…lies…etc. She got into some church with her…as many “phonies” do…and started avoiding me. Finally she made plans with me one night and then cancelled with the excuse that she was tired and then passed my house with her b/f …and didn’t even stop! They went for dinner.
So, I feel like she uses me and my girls…wants the security of “having me there” for her…but, when a crisis occurred, the hurricane…she just took care of herself.
The whole family knows she is self-centered and self-absorbed. But, she can also be very kind…stopping over to see the girls…bringing gifts for them…very affectionate …hugging them…etc. She’s very spunky and my girls finally had “family” that cared. Thats what hurts. She’s hot and cold.
I’ve x’ed her out of my life so many times. Then I forgave her always thinking she would be different and not pull the disappearing act..which is hurtful to me AND my girls.
The family always lets her back in…and she does the same to them. Helps out…comes around…gets sick of them …and then doesn’t bother.
I just ended the friendship I kept going on with my xbf…for the same reason. It was always all about him…around HIS schedual. He was a taker…not a giver. That is NOT a true friend.
And, I feel that she’s the same. Whether they are narcissists, sociopaths…IDK.
But I do know, that when I feel “used” and not cared for genuinely, I don’t want to be around these people. I get hurt, and angry, and I don’t want to live like this. I am better off alone and just with people around me who are “real”.
There just comes a time in life, when you just don’t need to be around people who suck the life out of you.
I’m there. I have my house back now to maintain for my girls and my girls to take care of ….and myself.
Thats all I need.
Jen, I do understand her, because I am in anguish over my “soul mate” and struggle with denial every day. I wasn’t trying to be mean to her, just a little tough love, hoping to help her in ways that I have needed many times. I have siblings and I’d have a hard time digesting spathy in any of them too. I also had what felt to me like a life-altering cosmological miracle of a bond with my ex. I shared my body and soul with him and believed to the very core of my being that I’d grow old with him and nurture a beautiful, loving family with him. It is EXTREMELY painful, I know….I just wanted to nudge her and remind her not to let herself forget the truth, because that just sets us up to get let down. The best we can hope for in this hopeless situation is to, at the very least, stop waiting for things that will never come.
I cannot stop thinking about how much I just want to hear him utter or show one SHRED of REAL compassion (not faked), one tiny itsy bitsy ounce of empathy. It is like a knife that stabs me relentlessly and never stops. I could scream until the heavens heard me, but he would not hear a thing….
I do understand her….I just hoped to help. We’re all safe here.
I have to run.
Catch you all later.
I don’t think that the answer is to forgive “them” for what they did to us…I like what others posted when they said, why should someone who has NO remorse for what they did be forgiven? I think the answer lies in forgiving OURSELVES! We need to forgive ourselves for allowing/having/accepting this person in our lives. We beat ourselves up trying to hash out in our minds WHY and HOW could this have happened. It’s our own hearts and heads that won’t allow us to move forward (I should say I am speaking on how I feel what I AM doing to myself). HOw could I not see him for what he was, HOW could I allow him to speak to me, my kids, my friends like that, WHY would I allow him to mistreat every thing I work so hard to accomplish and WHY would I keep going back…blah blah blah…
I am tried of beating myself up on those unending questions and MORE.
I am working on the forgivness but only for ME! He doesn’t deserve to be forgiven! Could forgiving him possible give the illusion that I and others accept and approve of his actions (in his mind). I mean, if I kill someone and the courts and victims family forgive me…then where is the justice? Not that a SP EVER EVER get that, but it would be a win for them.
I forgive me … and with that I will grow !!!
I stopped beating myself up because I realized that, at the time, they were filling a need I had. They had SOME value or I wouldn’t have kept them around.
But, when the pain they cause us is worse than the pain of being alone without them, it was time to end the relationships.
My children really loved my sister and she was there for me and for them at times. But, when the real test of what she was made of surfaced, I had to let her go. If she TRULY cared, she would never let us stay in our house, a few blocks from the bay and on a lake! She obviously didn’t care if we were killed during the hurricane. So, she showed me what value WE had in HER life. ZILCH.
The xbf was like a little child…running around buying everything for himself..too cheap to take me to dinner once in awhile…just coming down when HE needed sex. He tried to fake it…but he was incapable of loving and caring for anyone.
He was abandoned by his mother at age ten. Never saw her again..raising by a tyrant grandmother.He doesn’t have any idea who his bio dad is..not even his name!
He didn’t even have sneakers to wear to school! He had to wear his soccer cleats! So, now he just buys himself several pair of sneakers a week! He is totally self-absorbed and lives off of people. How could I expect a disordered person to GIVE anything to ME??? He has nothing to give.
So, I forgave myself for allowing him to be in my life. He served a purpose. I learned so much from dealing with someone like him. ….mainly NOT to bring these types of people in my life. They always hurt you. My theory is that “insecure, disordered people will always hurt you”. I only want confident, respectful, emotionally healthy, caring people in my life. People like ME.
I always remember something from my Catholic school upbringing…”Forgive them, for they know not what they do”.
Its not that they don’t know…its just their way of life…they “can’t” give what they don’t have.
To be Happy:
Your story is simular to mine…I hear that pain. Glad you have found peace in such a unsettling time. WAY TO GO!!!
As far as your sister…yup hear that too. My friend, BEST friend, my friend for 35 years…told me flat out…DO NOT come running to me, he is BAD, horrible, worse than your ex husband and I won’t listen to the stories that happen if your together with him cause I warned you and I don’t want to hear it – among much more…
It hurts, but she is no longer in my life. All those years of listening to her past family problems and whining about her first marriage and then whining about her second (which she has NOTHING to whine about)…I always kept myopinions quiet and listened each and every time.
Spit in the face as far as I am concerened…I have NO time for her or others like that. My true friends DID tell me in other and gentle ways that he isn’t treating me right, but they stood by me. For that – they are still in my life.
This is your sister and that must hurt bad. Again I know, cause my own father turned away from me and STLL won’t talk to me (I think it’s more so pride now).
You keep in your life only those who enrich you as you do them.
Many blessings!!!
Tobehappy,
All the good things that you sister did were fake.
She just likes having you in her life, just in case she needs something. But the truth is she is envious of you and your house on the lake. So when your house was the cause of your dismay, she took that opportunity to make sure you suffered – even to the point of risking your life.
Everything you’ve written about her points to N or S traits. That includes the kisses and the gifts, because remember, they have to wear a mask in order to keep you coming back.
I would not even bother with writing her a letter. Letters are reserved for people who … are people. With a spath, letters become ammunition. She will love knowing that she hurt you and how she hurt you.
Please, just go NC, make it permanent. If you must see her, do NOT FEED HER ANY EMOTIONS. Go NC in your mind.
Whirlwind,
Forgiveness seems to have different meanings for different people.
I guess, for me, it means not wanting revenge anymore. But I do want justice and hope for it.
I never did want revenge very much from my exspath. I’d rather lead a good life. As it turns out, his evil opened my eyes so wide that I can see clearly now and my chances for a good life are vastly improved. Being able to see all the spaths in my life, can be an asset, and he provided that.
I say , “can be” because, it can also be debilitatingly depressing.
Skylar…
I am holding off on writing her a letter unless she calls or emails again. I wrote a good one..(credits to Oxy!)…but I agree with you. She always seems to love to get into everyone’s business and is happy when I have troubles.
I have too much resentment toward her from how she treated me over the years. I gave her one last chance to be close to me, but she let me down again. Its so hard when its your family. You want to be close, but sometimes blood isn’t thicker than water. My siblings have been very disappointing over the years. But, my friends have been wonderful! So, these are the people that I keep in my life.
The rest don’t deserve my friendship.