Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Renewed,
I always knew that mine was betting on the come from what was going to come from my family..
I think there are many people that do that that aren’t romantically interested, but that are otherwise interested and looking for something…
They have their agenda and will bahave how they need to get what it is that they want.. they aren’t genuine in their motives, emotions, actions or anything else.. It is all for show and gain… they aren’t genuine.. and that is what I have become so aware of.. in all levels of life…
midlifecrisis – i really do think it is a gift. really.
#1 it brought me here, to these people and these resources. i couldn’t get this anywhere else
#2 i have cut off family who dearly needed cutting off because of my understanding of N/S/P now
#3 i see my dream – and as PAINFUL as that is, in light of how i saw it, what was given and then yanked out of my nervous system – it means that i can look at new ways of making it happen. use some of that risk taking stuff and go after what i want
#4 i feel blessed that there are so many creative people on lf, and successful ones. i think there are some models and mentors here for me, AND that is a HUGE resource for me in terms of focusing on myself and my life.
#5 i now accept that their is evil in the world, and it’s not ‘out there’. my highest wish is that i move away from it now, the moment i see it
#6 it’s making me more analytical again, and more caring of my own safety, and less impulsive.
just a bit, but i do think there is a gift in it for me. i will use this, it’s huge and it is a catalyst for me to go deep and succeed.
you said ‘No I don’t. I need for him to get big tastes of his own medicine. ‘ i hear ya girl!
one step
Midlife, you’re getting great responses here. I just have a little bit to add.
You wrote: “I would have been happier to have not met him and continued in my ignorance thinking the world was a great place and all people have some good in them.”
I think that you will eventually fall in love with the world again. It is a great place. Not without its dangers, but also full of beauty, opportunity and insight. And you will be wiser about all that, because you will be more alert to the dangers, more skilled at handling them, and more aware of the full breadth of your capabilities to handle the good and the bad.
You may also come to realize that there is good in everyone, but in some people it’s been so effectively locked away that it might as well be dead. They are tragedies and they are also dangerous. And you probably will develop the capacity to understand both things — the tragedy and the danger — and to respond appropriately to people you can’t heal and who offer nothing but a bottomless hunger to suck resources out of other people’s lives.
You wrote: “I wonder sometimes if the ’greater self knowing and what a blessing it is’ is just a story I tell myself to make me feel better about being so used and abused.”
I think we all feel like that, once we’ve encountered the idea that we might just get more out of this than the losses, but we’re not really there yet. It takes a while to get through counting up our losses, judging the other person as the cause of them, and getting our anger on right. During that period, it’s a pretty dream that this is going to work out well for us, but not really credible.
One of the things that helped me hold onto the idea was when I got really angry about the fact that the whole game had been set up for me to lose. And I just made up my mind that this MF was not going to win. Whatever he got from me, I was going to get a whole lot more out of him. And part of that was wanting revenge. But I knew that revenge, in the end, wasn’t going to give me back the money or the years or everything else I lost in this relationship. He changed his life on my back. I was going to change my life on his. I didn’t know exactly how, but I was going to make these losses investments in my life, not his. And they were investments that were going to pay off for me!
You wrote: “My mind keeps coming back to wanting to do something ” healing by itself in isolation isn’t enough ”“ I want some form of social justice and some change so this doesn’t happen as easily to someone else.”
I’m with you there. And though I have come to think that the best thing I can do is to help victims heal, because I have a vision of victimhood as a kind of global problem that needs to be addressed by helping people regain their understanding of their own power, there is a lot of other work that needs to be done. Education, changes in law, attention to social issues like family welfare, etc.
I know that there is a lot of discussion on this board about the genetic issues around sociopathy. I know they provide comfort to parents of sociopaths, but they frustrate me because they divert us from the larger social issues. We live in a world that dominated by sociopathic interests. They are a small minority, and we have the power to stop it. To fight for compassion, fairness, justice. Predators are short-sighted, because they are focused on short-term profit. People who care are not. They look ahead at the outcome of legal policies, business practices, social values and the everyday manifestations of these things on the common good.
And the voices of everyday people can make a difference. I work in PR, and I know how possible it is to move mountains. I’ve moved a few myself. Most of all, it takes speaking up, having a point of view and expressing it. There is a book called “The Starfish and the Spider” that I have recommended many times here. It is about how effective movements are started, and one of the most powerful truths in it is that, if we speak up, we attract our natural allies. The other people who care about the same thing. And this is how groundswells are built.
A lot of people here talk about how hard it is to find someone how understands or is willing to listen. My theory on this is that, as long as we are looking for understanding, we’re asking something from other people and they feel it and back away. And often the people who back away are the people who are struggling with the same issues, but trying not to let them take over their lives.
When we start talking our own truth, the dynamic changes. We are giving them something, which they can take or not. But for our natural constituency, the ones who are ready to become aware of victimhood or who are struggling to articulate the meaning of their own experiences, it becomes easier for them to say, “I know what you’re talking. I think it’s wrong too.”
Which means that we can’t really make changes until we’re solid with ourselves. When we’re not longer apologizing, or hating ourselves for our mistakes, or feeling like outcasts or like there’s something wrong with us. I used to feel like that about being an incest survivor, until I learned the numbers. And then I learned to say, “My father raped me for years.” Because I refuse to participate in the dirty little secret that keeps so many people in shame. If they try to tell me how sorry for they are for me, I shut them down, and tell them that one of every ten people they meet comes from the same background. It’s an epidemic, and the next time they go get a flu shot, maybe they could give a thought to what they’re going to do about protecting their kids or the kids next door.
Some people think I sound angry. Sometimes when you tell the truth, especially if it’s a truth other people don’t want to hear, they put on their la-la-la hats, because it’s easier to be oblivious. That’s especially true of people who have their own secrets. The truth is, of course I’m angry, as you are, but not just about what happened to me. I’m angry because the numbers aren’t changing and because what’s known about the causes of incest, just like what is known about precipitating factors (that are not genetic) about affective disorders like sociopathy are not driving changes in public policy. I’m also an attractive, successful, smart, articulate person who respects herself. So when I walk away, I leave them with something that may not click that day, but it will click someday when sexual abuse affects their lives, as it inevitably will, one way or another.
Midlife, it takes courage to be a catalyst. But one of things we learn from this recovery is that every person’s life is a creative event. We affect the world just by being here. The way we affect it reflects what is important to us. We don’t have control of everything. We don’t know where everything we do is going to lead. But the power we do have is to infuse the dominoes we tilt over with our own spirits and wills. We can choose the direction we push them in, and that make a big difference, especially when more and more of us start pushing them in the same direction.
You wrote: “Bah! I am hormonal and icky today.”
I say, take advantage of it. I’ve always believed that I got my best thinking done during hangovers and PMS. These are your own internal dominoes you’re tilting now, making choices about new directions, testing how it feels when you try new feelings and perspectives. You’re learning, and you’re learning the most important thing, the first thing you have to learn before anything else is going to make sense. And that’s who you really are, what you’re capable of and what you care about.
I’m on the sidelines, cheering. Go for it!
Kathy
Just got a text from my S that he never intended to hurt me, wants to be friends and that I was and always will be special! Of course, he never apologizes for all the lies and that HIS actions created all the hurt around him! Typical. I broke NC and slammed him, not that he cares but I wanted to vent. I did say no more contact and to leave me alone. I feel like I’m getting stronger, and yes, the anger and loss bubbles up but at least I see a light.
This site has been HUGE and right after laundry I’m going to get some of the books suggested as well as go back to Kathleen’s steps to recovery.
Thanks!
Mine cut communication off from me when I slammed him with the truth..
I needed to vent and he shut it off.. it was all to real for him..
He did respond that I must’ve never really seen who that he is because he is a guru…
And that it was me that messed it all up ..
yeah… right!
He postured that he was so above me…
then when I really shared my feelings with him.. he wrote back that he will not be reading or responding to me..
I bet he has found another mark…
I am just about to head to work so will post in response to these wonderful posts tonight – thanks everyone – funny how a good night of sleep and some love from friends far away can change the perspective.
Many thanks once again – this site just refuels me and gives me strength to go on – no words can describe it adequately 🙂
Love you all!
midlife – we just need to make a special place for erin for new names!
i’d be taking your above post down asap.
x one step
Style – imagine if you could SEE HIM EXACTLY AS HE IS, EVERY LITTLE NOOK AND CRANNY of that fucked up mind! LOL, COUNT YOUR LUCKY STARS THAT YOU DIDN’T (COUGH) ‘UNDERSTAND HIM’.
Best,
one step
midlife,
gotcha…Now if I can only remember.
Me too. Nice to meet you again, midlife. It feels like reincarnation. Wow.