Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
Oxy,
NO, you sound right on the nose. It’s too bad really. I had an old friend who used to say “the wing nuts are running the show” and everyone used to laugh…NOT laughing now..
Oxy,
They are over throwing Libya as we speak. Romania went down. Lots of spaths go down….
only to be replaced by other spaths. Sound bite: meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
YES, we know this. We must be cynical. But we must have faith too. The book Ponerology, is about that. It’s such a boring book, I’ve only gotten past half of it. But it is so full of information that I could hilight almost every sentence. Does that make sense? Some of the best books are that way. Rene Girard’s, “Violence and the Sacred” which is a college requirement for English Lit majors is that same way.
The internet is the new element. We are disseminating information and the spaths are trying to keep up. they will lose.
Once we pull back the curtain and see that the wizard of OZ is just a little midget pulling the strings, the magic is lost. Reality reappears.
sky – i realized that the guy i worked for in belize was probably a spath. i had thought n when i knew him, but i looked at the trail of enraged business contacts behind him; his grandiosity, how he didn’t for a minute think those old business contacts would be angry with him; how he took me on a trip to show what a great guy he was (to others) when he had already decided to fire me; how months later he phoned to see how i was doing (yay for screening phone calls!); how his mask was pretty securing fastened; and how the woman i knew who worked with him had given him money and he never ever would put a contract together for her or her daughter…doubt they have ever seen a dime.
so he was def a spath. and SUCH an asshole. i was pretty rattled after working for him. it still comes out in some work related circumstances. the n gf was just before him, then the spath after her. i had this intense little pod of these freaks from 2006 to 2009 – and now 2 years of healing and dealing. spath fake killed the fake boy 2 years ago – almost to the day. lying sack of crap that she is.
Sky and One,
Many people seem to me to be high in the traits that are narcissistic, but not psychopathic—but many psychopaths that I have known are also VERY highly narcissistic, and some psychopaths are NOT all that highly narcissistic, at least not openly. But I would say that all psychopaths are narcissistic, but not all narcissists are psychopaths. To me, just from experience, no studies or anything, people who are JUST NARCISSISTIC even highly narcissistic sometimes, are not HATEFUL with it, simply unaware that they are irritating, but not trying to hurt you.
They will eat the last piece of cake, knowing you haven’t had any cake, more without thinking than with the intention to deprive you of a share of the cake. The psychopath on the other hand may have eaten so much cake he can’t hold any more and so he SMASHES the piece that’s left, JUST SO YOU CAN’T HAVE ANY. I realize this is a “simplistic” analogy, but it seems in my dealings with them at work and more personally this trend seems to hold true for the ones I’ve known.
One, I’ve seen such growth in your healing (and sanity!) since you came here. No wonder after three in a row, and the last one like Medusa’s head, sprouting snakes everywhere, you were feeling crazed. I no longer apologize to anyone for being crazy as a shait house rat myself. I had a major melt down, I earned it and I deserved it and I wasn’t going to let anyone deprive me of it. But dang I’m glad it is about over!
crazy as a shait house rat?
Hens, yep that is a TECHNICAL term that nurses use…and I could (and I think I did) describe you that way too. We both were! And One/Joy was up there with us for a while but even she is starting to sound sane now! So you know, if 3 hard heads like us can get sane, I think it proves that ANYONE can recover.
Oxy,
I agree with your cake analogy. I’d add only one thing: the spath would say, “I smashed the last piece of cake because I knew that you were watching your weight… that’s how much I love you.”
ROTFLMAO.
One of the reasons that I know my mom is spath is because when she realized that I was allergic to gluten, she began baking cookies all the time. Chocolate chip and it was twice weekly. She would spout on and on about the best chocolate chips to use and how good her cookies were. She gave them to my evil spath sis and to her grandson and to my dad.
I just looked at her quizzically. it was a WTF? moment. Why doesn’t she realize that it COULD be rude to eat things and talk about things that I have to resist?? Wierd. But the fact was, that after such a long time without wheat, I really did not have any desire for her cookies. Though I didn’t tell her. So she kept it up. cookies every week and she wouldn’t shut up about them. I really believed she was dumb. Now I know better.
Hi oxy – you know, all this was so terribly compounded by the MCS injuries. it just all came at once (the spath and the MCS). I know you notice that i misspell words and invert letters, and leave words out, etc…that’s the MCS (and the fact that my hands often don’t work that well.) i really want to change that, so i am wondering how to do that. slowing right done (okay, i typed this slowly and looked at the words as i went, and yet, i wrote ‘done’ instead of ‘down’???) is the only thing i can think of. i really want to see a neurologist, too. I think i will ask the PTSD shrink about that – see if she would refer me.
now, i don’t think my dad is a spath, but man he works hard at keeping that mask in place. NOT one crack since I went nc with him – even that last email (after i turned tail and walked off his property) turned out to be a question my mom wanted to be answered. not one peep about my behavior over the last year and a half. Not ONE.
i want to thank you for some of your words during my leg infection and the last two days oxy. you have said some very simple nurturing things to me, and i really needed that. (leg is almost healed. the big bump is down and the skin is almost completely closed…took a long time.)
i dont think i was crazy as a shait house rat- – just a touch of situational insanity…i kicked the shait house rat out on the street and my situation improved – so keep your terminology to your self you crazy ole bat….
hahahaaa.