Although it has been many years and there is a new relationship, a friend of mine still wishes every day that the sociopath that preyed on her will “drop dead.” Wishing and hoping that some horrible end will come for the sociopath takes up time and energy in my friend’s life; as she searches for evidence that something bad has indeed happened to the sociopath and then is disappointed.
Recently, I discussed the topic of forgiving psychopaths with a psychopathy researcher who is not a clinician. He said he received a letter from someone complaining that friends were pressuring the victim to forgive. It was the psychopathy researcher’s opinion that people should NOT be told they have to forgive a psychopath.
Upon reflecting on this opinion, I believe that this psychopathy researcher may have a special insight that informs his view —that psychopaths should not necessarily be forgiven. Perhaps this insight is: in spite of their brain disorder, psychopaths still have a choice about what they do.
My son is now 7, he and I rough and tumble play every day. It is impossible to wrestle and not have some kind of slight hurt come to one or the both of us. From the time he was very young, perhaps as young as 3, my son has appreciated the idea that mommy didn’t “do it on purpose”. If he pokes me in the eye or lands rough on my stomach he’ll say “Sorry, I didn’t do it on purpose.”
This example illustrates our inborn social contract that says we do not hurt each other on purpose. If hurts happen in the course of life, they are usually unintended side effects of other behaviors and so should be forgiven. Cheating on a spouse could even be forgiven as an unintentional hurt if the person succumbed to temptation in a moment of weakness, realized the wrong committed, then repented. Even murder is not punished as much if it is an accident.
The problem with sociopaths is that their behavior is no accident. They hurt people on purpose, carefully planning, then executing their plans. After 7 years of reading research articles and talking to victims, I believe choice is part of a complete explanation of sociopathy and victimization. If you watch any of the TV shows about sociopaths you too will see that the theme of their choices permeates the media.
Friday night, Gangland on the History Channel told the story of Billy Wadd, a member of the Devil’s Disciples motorcycle gang who gained notoriety when he broke the biker’s code of silence and testified against his nephew who murdered a family during a home invasion. Wadd said he decided to aid the prosecution of his nephew, John Wolfenbarger, instead of “taking care of things the usual way” because “You just don’t kill kids.” It is clear he believed these murders were performed with an intention that not even another sociopath could accept, so even sociopaths believe in their own capacities for choice.
Now let’s reconsider whether victims should be told they have to forgive. It seems there is a natural human instinct that says forgiveness is reserved for accidents, unintended consequences, and perhaps intentional slights that are out of character. How then can you ever forgive a psychopath?
Psychopaths have been compared to predators. I think this analogy is seriously flawed. A predator such as a lion or wolf has to kill in order to survive. Psychopaths don’t hurt for survival. They hurt because they want to, because they like hurting. Their enjoyment of hurting increases the likelihood they will choose to hurt if given the opportunity. They also seek out opportunities to hurt -not for survival but for pleasure.
Since sociopaths, with intention, repeatedly violate our inborn social contract, perhaps they should never be forgiven.
Instead of forgiving, I hope, my friend, you will think about all this and thoroughly digest the reality of the sociopath you shared life with. The reality is terrible— you shared life with a truly evil person, someone who regularly, with malice and forethought, chooses to harm others. Don’t stop hoping to see the day the scourge of this evil person’s existence will be wiped from the Earth, but do not waste any more of your time on him.
jennifer: ‘Release’ PERFECT word for what is needed!
for me, it is THE reason to try forgive. But there is no need for me to forgive her – but there need to release myself. Perfect!
I am a huge Tyler Perry fan. I love the lessons he tries to teach. But the forgiviness lession is always confusing to me. Forgive the aggressor not for his sake but for yourself so that you can move on. That is what Tyer says. But How can anyone forgive a wife beater/cheater who has no remorse for what he did? And who says we can’t go on without forgivenesss? No. Sorry… I can’t forgive S woman because to do so will let my guard down. Does she ever know which buttons to push on me! I can’t give her that power over me again. Sorry.
Hello…
This is my first post to Lovefraud and I am honored to be here among my fellow lesson learners. I just wanted to recommend a book I just finished reading called: “Breaking the Wall of Silence” by Alice Miller. Her books point out the ways in which we are culturally brainwashed and manipulated not to be aware and to comply with the interpersonal and cultural edicts of the manipulation and no-win situations and the guilt we carry when we have the nerve to question the n/s/p. I hope that my fellow Lovefraud readers will benefit from the truth that jumps off the pages of this and her other books…looking forward to sharing here!
Thanks so much!
Mike – I prefer the word psychopath too – and you just put into words why for me. Sociopath is too soft and nice sounding – it has connotations that society created them and they are a total product of their own society – which we know isn’t totally true – there are plenty of people who grow up with less than ideal surroundings and don’t go out of their way to hurt people – instead they make a concerted effort to change their lives for the better and those of their children. So that is exactly why I disagree with the term sociopath – it’s fluffy and doesn’t connote the danger these people pose for the rest of society and particularly those they are intimate with, related to or good ‘friends’ with. Great point.
Another great point you raise is about respecting the rights of psychos if we say we respect and embrace diversity. I have been thinking a lot about you and your wife and child and how you experience the world. The labels that society puts on you to fit you into a little box so people can stereotype. I TRY not to do that, but it’s kind of inevitable that when someone mentions the word ‘autism’, I pull up the little file in my brain that contains everything I know about the condition – everything I have read, research into vaccines and practical interactions I have had with people who have the condition at all stages in life. You are the first person with autism (and your lovely wife) that has blown the box out of the water and it’s making me think of things from your perspective. Well I know I can’t literally know your experience of life, but I am thinking of you as a person first and foremost then learning how the ‘symptoms’ affect you as an individual. Your willingness to share yourself is enabling a lot of us to re-educate ourselves about autism and what it means for people who have it and those who don’t. I am moving away from the assumptions … ‘If you are autistic then you must have a special sensitivity and be highly sensate and probably not much emotional communication’ That’s false where you are concerned – your writing shows incredible depth of emotion and connectivity to others – so probably it is false for others with autism too. I wonder how much of that social difficulty comes from others approaching those with autism with those stereotypes in their heads – ‘oh I won’t get too involved because it might be uncomfortable for them’.
I have drifted off the topic but that needed to come out 🙂 Your point is spot on – there is a difference with psychopaths – they harm others and therefore shouldn’t be afforded the same rights as those who don’t. Good good point and an important distinction. That means for me that if ANYONE harms others – no matter if they have cerebral palsy, dyslexia, tourettes syndrome, depression – then there is something very wrong. I think I am getting close to something here. I think in the past I thought that if a person had an additional need then I have to excuse any bad behaviour from them. That’s a stupid and arrogant approach. It’s a pity vote – ‘They have this thing wrong with them, so they can’t help it’. NO! People are responsible for what they do. Period. Don’t we all have special and additional needs of one form or another?
I get overwhelmed around crowds so I avoid large events like concerts. Does that give me the right to abuse people if I deliberately stress myself by going to a concert?? No. Of course not.
I was reading today about Dabrowski’s theory of positive disintegration = I think it’s really important to this process of recovering from a psychopath encounter. The theory states that if a person experiences a big enough trauma, they don’t recover in the normal sense of the word but rather they go through a period of intense psychological restructuring where everything about them is taken apart and reformed. I think that is what we go through here. We don’t just get a bit hurt and lose trust. We are devastated and forced to examine everything about ourselves, our history, our personality and affect and even our philosophy, morals and worldview.
The theory goes that during this period of restructuring negative emotions are very very common – guilt, shame, pain, humiliation and depression. But there is nothing wrong with these – they are normal and should just be accepted. Once the person is through this restructure – they can become a force for good in the world if they can get past their egocentric thinking and focus on self. Does that resonate with you Mike? I haven’t done a very good job of explaining it but you can google – it’s linked strongly with gifted education but I think it is applicable here. I would be really interested to hear your thoughts about it.
I will try to find some good quotes from the article that hopefully illustrate it better than I can!
“In Dabrowski’s theory (1964), positive disintegration is the process by which all development occurs. For Dabrowski, growth occurs through a series of psychological disintegrations and reintegrations, resulting in dramatic change to a person’s conceptions of self and the world. Positive disintegration forges a personality that motivates one to perform at increasingly high levels, emphasizing altruism and morality.”
The author notes that not all disintegrations are positive – negative ones can lead to tremendous depression and even suicide.
Central to the theory is the concept of OEs (over excitabilities) – these show areas for potential development in gifted or highly sensitive people:
Psychomotor – restlessness, driveness, augmented capacity for being active and energetic
Sensual – enhanced differentiation and aliveness of sensual experience
Imaginational – vividness of imagery, richness of association, facility for dreams, fantasies and inventions, animisms and personifications, liking the unusual
Intellectual – avidity for knowledge, discovery, questioning, love of ideas and theoretical analysis
Emotional – great depth and intensity of emotional life expressed in a wide range of feelings, compassion, attachment, heightened sense of responsibility, self examination
Rank where you are in terms of those OEs – I am particularly strong on the last three. I definitely identify myself as a highly sensitive person and always have been. I can carry the emotions of others, absorb it and sense it and have always had a thirst for knowledge and huge imagination. I actually wonder where we all are in relation to these traits – I imagine they combine to create extreme weakness where psychopaths are involved – we are able to feel for both of us, imagine a better day and analyse the situation in depth, without ever really needing to come to conclusion.
“These OEs, especially the latter three cause a person to experience day to day life more intensely and to feel the extremes of the joys and sorrows of life profoundly”
“Positive disintegration is an emotionally painful process resulting in psychological reintegration at a higher level of human functioning. Experiencing negative emotions such as shame, guilt and anxiety, under certain conditions is indicative of positive disintegration”
(Yay! These emotions are serving a purpose! Hooray!)
The author writes about people having either high or low development potential – fixed at birth although the environment can contribute to how potential develops, but it cannot put more potential there if there is little to start with.
“When developmental potential is low, emotions, including negative emotions are simply experienced with short term effectson a person. In contrast, intense emotionality in the context of high OEs yields profound, life changing experiences contributing to positive disintegration. Inner conflict is associated with such intense emotionality: Life events and introspection become catalysts to painful experiencing of the discrepancy between the way the world should be and the way it is.”
I am still absorbing this complicated theory – just found it today. Hope it gives others like me some more hope – it looks like we are high in development potential and are going through a profound internal restructuring as we experience these huge emotions in the aftermath of the psychopaths. There really IS gold in the experience! Please share your thoughts about this theory …
Welcome Glinderella (nice name!)
Sorry that you have obviously had an experience with a disordered person … it’s very painful. You are very welcome here though and among people who understand and can help you get through the healing journey. Please share more of your story as you feel able.
Funny you should mention Alice Miller – I was on her website the other week reading through all the letters people had sent her and her responses. I definitely have to start reading her books. You will find here a lot of people are going back to their childhood experiences to understand how they got stuck in a poor and destructive relationship with a psychopath – early experiences certainly build our view of what is normal and acceptable in relationships.
Well just a quick welcome 🙂 You are among friends here – post away and enjoy reading all the wonderful material here 🙂
Dr. Leedom,
Excellent article! DO we ever forgive? I am not in the place yet where forgiveness comes into play and I’m not sure I ever will be because how do you forgive EVIL? How do forgive a person who has taken your life and methodically, systematically and with premeditation stripped myself and others of integrity, pride, trust in mankind, money and precious memories that will never be retrieved? I just don’t forgiveness forthcoming and I thank God no one is asking that of me right now.
Jennifer- just read your post. RELEASE! I think you hit on a great way to look at it, releasing the angst, the anger, the stress, the self-condemnation we all collected at some point. I have already reached points, even as new as I am to the whole healing process in which I’ve experienced this. You found the right word to express it all. I do this for me because if I choose to carry the anger and hatred, then my soul will be dark and I choose NOT to live the rest of my life like that. In a sense, it’s also still giving my EX S. power that he has no right to over my life. The word “release” is a lot easier to process than “forgiveness”. Thank you!
Do I believe they have a choice? Yes, but only in the sense that they use it to pick and choose who they are are going to use next and just how they are going to go about doing that. Do they have a choice in that they can actually turn into a giving, dependable, honorable member of society? NO. I agree, they are not to be compared to a lion or tiger who kills to survive and was not given the abilities to think of any other way to protect their basic survival. A P/N/A has NO conscience and to me, that puts them in the basement of the house of humanity.
Ox,
I’ve always taught my child to love the person, but that doesn’t mean you have to love what they DO. My son is slowly, but surely, reaching the stage where he is refining his ability to see that certain things were/are done because his father makes a choice to do so. Even at his age, he is able to discern between that and something that was truly an accident, such as you described, someone wrestling with their child and little things happening. KNOWING the difference will, perhaps, give him the knowledge he needs later on in life to be able to pick out those who are real and those who are real evil.
glinderella,
WELCOME! This is the best place in the world to be and yet I’m sorry you have to be here. Come back and visit, read and learn. This site has saved me in so many ways, I can’t begin to recite them all. I’m glad you’re here!
Trophy,
Just read your post and live the snake/little kitten theory. You’re spot on about that. I have a son with my ex and that means I have to have contact with him, though it’s as limited as it can be. I haven’t hidden anything from my child, who is 10, and I believe telling him, educating him to the REALITY of what his father is, is essential to his mental health, as I just wrote of to Oxy in my above post.
Reality is a word I like. Like Release, it’s a good, workable, healing word that will take any of us to new places, far better than where we’ve been. I am very real in that I know EXACTLY what my ex is and what he is capable of. Great post!
Great post! I feel as i needed to read something like that, becauze i am stucked in forgiveness phase, unable to forgive.
It frightened me because i am not the person unable or not willing to forgive, i forgave many nasty things to many bad people, but somehow i just can’t forgive s/n ‘ s. I was wondering: WHY?
As Oxy loves to say, i got now my AHA moment – it is imposible to forgive spaths because there is no substance in them, and, in fact, no real person to forgive. Spaths are fake, an illusion, a dream, they are tot REAL PERSONS so we can forgive them.
Its my circle i cant leave. I WANT to forgive, but i dont know WHOM. All his appearances of ‘individual’ ? All his faces? All my mother’s faces?
Even if i forgive to ‘good person’ i held fpr in those creatures, here is The Nasty one comes back…
God, will this agony ever end?
Sorry, i just needed to vent
Bless u all
midlifecrisis,
Great post. I’m going to have to look up Dabrowski’s theory. Maybe there is some combination of OEs that makes us more susceptible to S/Ps. I seem to identify with the same (last 3) OEs you do, and I like your idea that “we are able to feel for both of us, imagine a better day and analyze the situation in depth, without ever really needing to come to conclusion.” I spent 10 years with the S trying to ‘fix’ him with love, imagining how our future ‘could be’ and endlessly analyzing and trying to make sense of his odd behavior.
For me, as soon as I found LoveFraud and had an explanation for his behaviors, I was able to begin moving on. Finding this site helped something CLICK for me, and I think just having an explanation went a long way to fulfilling my need for logical explanations of his behavior.
Thanks for your post!
I think, the reason we find it so hard to forgive, is it’s not natural. Our natures, and instincts prevent us from forgiving a predator . . . because they will do it again, and especially an evil, lying, manipulative, blaming, raging, charming, predator, because we know they will do it again.
Why are we trying so hard to go against our instincts. I think we should not forgive. Not for a second, not one iota. Forgiveness is what has gotten us in trouble (during our relationship with the N/S/P.) If we hadn’t forgiving the first offense, we would not have become hooked. I don’t know why, how, who thinks we should forgive . . but I do believe it is the wrong in the natural world.