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Friday June 20, 10 pm: Katherine Underwood story on ABC 20/20, with commentary by Donna Andersen

Katherine Underwood 20-20

Katherine Underwood conducted surveillance of her ex in disguise.

Finally, some nationwide exposure to the problem of sociopathic con men.

On Friday, June 20 at 10 p.m. (Eastern), the ABC 20/20, the network’s news magazine, will tell the story Katherine Underwood’s campaign often in disguise to collect the money owed to her by her former boyfriend, Budimir Drakulic. I am interviewed in the show explaining how it’s possible for someone to give her partner more than $410,000.

I broke the story back in April in an article for the Daily Mail:

I’m not done wig you! The many disguises woman wore to spy on an ex-lover who owes her $1.6 m after 20 years.

Like a true sociopath, Drakulic never paid. But maybe he will now. ABC News hired a private investigator to track Drakulic, and then a process server to help Katherine garnish his wages. Here’s a preview of the show:

Woman dons disguises to get money back from ex, on ABCNews.go.com.

Lovefraud readers: Tune in. Tell your friends and family to tune in. Sociopaths live among us, and we all need to know how about these sweet-talking predators.

 


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30 Comments on "Friday June 20, 10 pm: Katherine Underwood story on ABC 20/20, with commentary by Donna Andersen"

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Nice segment, Donna and 20/20. Thanks to both for focusing on this issue. If one person is empowered to prevent themselves from being victimized, it is worth it.

Vicki Kuper

It took a lot of courage for Katherine to go on this show, so glad she did it will open eyes up and it was great to hear from you Donna as always very professional and articulate. The only thing that I wish would have been different with the show is 20/20 focusing more on who these con artist are, what are their traits, how to spot them, how they manipulate people easily into giving them money with their pathological lying, that anyone and everyone can be conned etc meaning the show should have focused on the words sociopath/psychopaths and that 1 in 25 people meet this disorder. Thank you Katherine & Donna for spreading information.

Isn’t this a poignant but especially prescient example of why it best to just cut your losses? It’s more than $410K she spent on him for trying to recover the money she spent on him and it’s 14 years later with nothing to show for the pursuit or the attention she has paid on the matter.
I get how justice can turn into an obsession. The moral of this story is two fold: You can’t let anything be an exemption to good sense about loans… And certainly, not “love”. Too, if you make a life’s mission out of seeking justice, that’s as much a crapshoot as winning the lotto. It may entertain you but know that at some point, you’ll look back to know your life would have been better spent on another mission.

Viewpoint…that is exactly what the psychopath wants people to do = just walk away without justice. They know that good people will give up eventually that is why they drag everything on and on, it takes a strong minded person like Katherine to say NO I deserve my money back.

What you dont realize is that psychopath know exactly how to manipulate everyone with pity play, blame shifting, reward & punishment, intimidation, mind control, trance, hypnosis, pathological lying etc to get what they want whether money, sex, a place to live, etc. This guy is no different. He targeted a nice kind person to manipulate and guess what she is not his first or last victims…psychopaths loves the game of conning people for this evil guy it’s his addiction.

To me she was smart the judge awarded her twice the amount ($800,000) and then she has accumulated interest = $1.8 million dollar return. She will get her money when they garnish his wages.

The moral of Katherine’s story is persistence does pay out.

I don’t think that she’ll see any money given his history of hiding it. He’ll quit that job and off he goes. Read the history of how he’s wangled himself out of paying. He lasted at the prior job for 8 months.

I don’t care what “the psychopath wants people to do”. I care what I do.

You see Katherine as heroic, I see her as taking up 14 years of her life on this sole mission, jeopardizing her health (bleeding ulcers, collapse and hospitalized twice)and so impoverished by her pursuit that she has to live in her car when she’s spying on him. I could think that “More of the Same”: Not knowing when to hold and when to fold. She didn’t quit this pursuit any more than she didn’t quit spending her money on him.

But I don’t think that of Katherine. I think, though, it’s a choice of how you’re going to do a relationship and how you’re going to recover from foolish things you do in a relationship.

You can’t make the whole of sleazy people pay; nor will making them pay protect you from the miseries delivered. You can only protect yourself from being targeted (with the sweet nothings) and protect yourself from yourself being wishful about a love interest.

Katherine’s first loan (of $5K for back child support)was made only 8 months into the dating. She emphasizes that Drakulic was proclaiming his love for her on the first date… As a red flag sign. That didn’t stop her, nor did it stop her to find out he wasn’t paying his child support. And it didn’t stop her when she was borrowing money from her brother to give to Drakulic. She stopped when he quit her after the confrontation.

Strong is when you stop yourself from doing harm to yourself, your life or an innocent other’s life (brother’s)despite temptation to throw caution to the wind. Obsessed is when you don’t stop thinking about what it cost you to be with a sleaze or don’t stop trying to exact justice.

I don’t judge Katherine for being obsessed. Katherine’s feeling of foolishness and her guilt of losing everything she had/brother’s money has fueled the obsession. I just wish she could have found a cheaper way (in years, health and money)to have emotionally resolved those feelings. She didn’t deserve this obsession.

Viewpoint, I highly doubt you or anyone else would just walk away vs fighting for your $450,000/$800,000 if this happened to you. She wasn’t fighting for say $10,000 she was fighting for close to a half a million dollars big big difference.

I hope Katherine gets his bank accounts frozen with a court order.

I have walked away from the wishful and theoretical big buck recovery. No, I didn’t do it with a blithe “Oh well!”, I did it painfully.

Katherine has paid more than me for her pursuit: Financially, health wise and emotionally. She’s at her last hope to recover (some of it)through the employer but he’s going to quit that job. He’s likely in the position to retire: He made boku money off a medical device he invented, selling the patent for money and getting stock in the company who bought it…But that money and his wage money has never been found. Thus the last attempt to get some money through garnishment.

(A judgment means nothing unless there’s some kind of leverage to get the party to pay the judgment: Like a lien on his property that denies him creditworthiness or his bank accounts frozen. He owns no assets and the only bank account found was one in his daughter’s name with $570 in it. And this the reason to get an order to garnish wages.)

Katherine knows more than most folk all about the slippery ways to get out of paying the judgment. And she’s known how slippery he is capable of being since she got the judgment a decade ago…. Because he pulled off a lot of shenanigans in those proceedings to delay the judgment. She’s had her face slapped silly with every slip/slide he’s done.)

Katherine knows that this final effort of garnishing his wages is feeble; knowing he will quit the job. I suspect that Katherine’s intent has significantly changed: From recovery to avenging; ie, making him quit employments because she’ll be out in California finding the next employer to serve the order of garnishment to. It will be another hardship on her to do this but unlikely to be one on him because he is suspected to have made a lot of money on a medical monitoring patent he sold to a company that paid him in both wages and stock. So will Katherine really be satisfied to just force his retirement? I’m fine with that if it does give her enough satisfaction to resolve the original betrayal and the 14 years of time/money/health spent for rectitude.

It wouldn’t be enough satisfaction would for me. Time and health are precious because they aren’t recoverable. I can recover money I wasted and I can recover my vanity bruised for being played in less time than 14 years and less money/health spent to do that.

When we hear a sensational story such as this, it can mislead us to be cheering on a practice that actually devours a real and precious life. I’m trying to help you appreciate what 14 years of this pursuit meant really to her life: It was always in the forefront of her mind (a dark and painful thing), she spent all she had left in getting the judgment/trying to find him, she spent every vacation out in California living in her car to do this. It wasn’t a mere pastime that she dabbled with while she did other satisfying things; it was/is all of her life. She can’t get back those 14 years or (perhaps) her health.

And she’s going to get for about a 1/3 of her life spent in this matter and manner (counting the relationship) just forcing his retirement and her 3 minute interview on ABC. She’s not going to get anything in her pocket and that’s an outcome not unusual (but usually because the betrayer spent the money).

Katherine’s story is a parable about what is really unrecoverable (precious) and what is recoverable. Time and health are not recoverable. Money and a bruised ego are recoverable. The money wasn’t that precious to Katherine until it was gone. Is it going to take all her time and her health until those are gone, too, before she understands that those were precious as well?

Understanding now that Katherine has paid with her life for this pursuit for justice can you really cheer her on for “making him pay”? How does it really change things for her (or anyone betrayed) if he pays something (because he never pays more than the target) or he rides off happily in the sunset and stays happy from there on?

We must understand that this pursuit stopped the grieving process at anger. And Katherine has the rest of the grieving to go. Added to that grief will be these 14 years spent to come to this.

It is actually more reckless than not to go after a sociopath. Not only do ‘spaths not pay as dearly as desired, it’s a big price to one’s life to still be living close to that dark chapter of one’s life. It’s more than just living in the past that was painful, it’s having everything about today to enjoy and appreciated dampened by the business.

If you were given the real choices that are involved here: Of being denied happiness and gratifications for 14 years to possibly (or even likely) get some money back, you’d say “Skip the money, I’m not giving up 14 years of happiness for that.” Or you should because 14 days or 14 months of aching is pretty hard to take let alone 14 years.

The money can never be as precious as how one spends their lives. And any of us who have been “screwed over” and let it go, have to help those who struggle with the matter of justice to choose for their future lives not for the dark past.

Viewpoint,

I appreciate your reasoned comments here. And to a large extent, rationally, they are right. Though, I think it depends on how important money is to you vs. other things, and that has to do with how destitute you have been left and how much was taken and might be recoverable. You make some good points about why money usually never is recoverable and some of the reasons why.

But I understand someone like Katherine’s obsession as I too have continued in a different way to live in that “dark place” as a choice after escaping my ex. For different reasons, but still.

I too, like you (and probably like Katherine, but I am waiting to see Katherine’s story after it becomes available to me — missed the broadcast), was deceived by a N/P out of a LOT of money in complicated ways, including business schemes, and an expensive and consuming divorce. At one point, I faced possible homelessness. And in my then-mental and physical state, not to mention parenting two kids under all this stress, I could not re-earn money back, even though I am skilled and experienced. Perhaps later I can make more, but my ability to do so has been, to some degree, irretrievably hampered by my experience with my ex N/P. In my case, I also knew I would never get that money back from my ex, so there was no point in trying.

I also agree that you usually can not outwit a psychopath, so it is kind of pointless to try, though I applaud anyone like Donna, Katherine, and some others profiled on LoveFraud (like the lady in NJ who got one arrested lately) when they do. My hat is off to you who succeed!!

But I choose to remain obsessed and live in a dark place for two reasons. First, it was helpful in my escape and recovery — understanding much more fully what really happened and why, explaining it to others including in my divorce and custody evaluation process, and feeling able to move on with most self-confidence restored. But second, I am incensed that Ns and Ps can do what they do to us, and society does not understand. I was lucky to have the education and money available to try to understand these types. I want to share that knowledge with others and try to help them either avoid getting into this type of situation in the first place or get out of it as well as they can. I have a number of plans in mind to accomplish that. I have already spent my available time over another 3 years post-divorce (admittedly not anything like full-time, but still chosen in lieu of other possible activities). And I expect to spend at least another couple of years getting what I want to get done, done. Yes, it is obsession; but I prefer to call it determination. I have a focus and a goal. It won’t be revenge and it won’t impact my ex directly. Instead, I am focusing my outrage on something productive to others, perhaps even for my own children down the road as people who grow up with Ns and Ps all too often tend to date and marry them as well. What I hope to accomplish may also be helpful to those who encounter Ns and Ps in a money/business context as well, as I have.

I do worry that doing this causes me to live in a dark place psychologically. I am sure doing so has delayed my recovery to some degree. However, one way to overcome trauma is to dig very deeply into something, facing it down, understanding it, so its mystery ceases to torment one. I have looked at and probed the beast, and I feel I know it better now. I have to some extent become desensitized, much like repeated exposure to an allergen through allergy shots causes one to become desensitized to that allergy. I no longer feel the same sting or power over me that Ns and Ps, my ex included, might have had over me in the past. I feel up to the challenge, though I know it is far better to avoid than to poke the beast.

I believe that after 3 years of not having to deal with my ex on a daily basis, I am finally recovering. My mood is happier, my ability to cope higher, my health is better, and my complex PTSD symptoms are almost all gone, only rearing their head occasionally. My life is being remade in nice ways, and I am moving on.

But by living in the dark places a while longer, I feel I am helping myself, my family, some around me, and hopefully can help people more widely. It is time well spent. And I choose it. I choose it from among several also very good options. I am not sure what else I could be doing with my life right now that is more important.

Though, this is not all I am doing, to be sure. I am taking care of the essentials of family as well.

Still, I feel like I have a mission and I hope it will become “Mission: Accomplished”.

Dear viewpoint, I’m reading your very long replies and have to say that I find them offensive. I wish you had kept your sanctimonious attitude to yourself.

Do you really believe the people who come here to read and post are so ignorant that we cannot appreciate, weigh and judge the cost and toll of the expenditures and efforts taken to recoup money, jobs, houses, careers, reputations, friends, family and children?

I am insulted by your comments and question your reasons for coming here.

the thing is…..I’ve read part of this discussion about if money is worth going after and the pro and con aspects to the arguments. My two cents is…….someone who is in the same situation as Katherine, has not only been bilked out of money she has also been raped by deception, had her heart, mind, dignity shat on, had her trust in mankind twisted into something she can’t even recognize, had the sanctity of her body and home defiled…….there is just so much more to a situation like Katherine’s than say,,,,,,someone embezzled the same amount of $$ from your business. She was raped on every conceivable level including physically because she was not consenting to the physical relationship with the same person this asshat turned out to be. BUT in this case and any other case of rape by fraud or rape by deception, she doesn’t get a rape kit, can’t call the cops, doesn’t have the sympathy of other people period because no one recognizes the insidious assault that took place AS rape. So, I’m guessing that by going after this POS, it is her way to not only recover her money but more importantly see that he is exposed and held accountable.
I feel so strongly inside myself that this whole debacle with Spathtardx would fade into some weird surreal compartment of my psyche if I was able IN SOME WAY to hold his worthless a** accountable, even if just by exposing him for the pathetic POS he really is. I’m not letting that hope go.
Catch 22 here because he did not steal or finagle any money of significance from me DIRECTLY…………indirectly he has cost me thousands of dollars. If he would have stollen or finagled money from me directly, that certainly could be MY inroad to make his worthless life even worse and tie hime up in court for as long as it suited me.

I have some mixed feelings about this poor woman’s story. I feel a great deal of empathy for her because she was robbed of so much money. I understand the desire to fight for justice. On the other hand, I want to beg her to stop because she’s been tied to him for so bloody long. The costs to her have been so high.

I too was bilked out of some money by a sociopath. It wasn’t nearly so much money. I thought about fighting for it but in the end it just wasn’t worth it. I can replace lost money if given enough time. What I couldn’t do is replace the time lost and the cost to my emotional and physical health. There’s just no amount of money that was worth a long drawn-out battle.

I’m glad to see the word getting out about sociopaths. I agree with Viewpoint that this woman has made tremendous sacrifices for justice. I probably would not do the same. But if no one ever fought back, who would ever take them down? Katharine’s sacrifice is not just for herself but for all of us. I turned in my ex, the sociopath, to the army for fraud and adultery. Between the depositions and ongoing investigation, this kept him in my thoughts far longer than I would have liked. The whole process took a year from the time we broke up. I have no regrets. I could have walked away and let it go, but it was very empowering to make him face justice. And he got no money whatsover from me! It was a 3 month romance and that’s all. But it affected me so deeply that I had to fight. I personally could not imagine sacrificing 14 years of my life, but that has to be a personal decision. None of us can ever know what another’s life lessons or karmic scripts are.

Stargazer says: “But if no one ever fought back, who would ever take them down?”

That is my thought too (see my reply above to Viewpoint).

Someone or several someones have to raise the issue and solutions. I applaud those who do. I am trying to do the same, consciously, and at cost to myself.

So should every mother trying to collect child support just give up and not peruse the court ordered money for their children?

Should the lawyers for the victims of Bernie Madoff just give up on retrieving the victim’s life savings or the biking community who tried to stop Lance Armstrong’s lies, manipulation and just let him continue to win by doping or the Jewish community just give up perusing the military leaders who murdered their relative 60 years ago or should the world just let evil dictator like Hilter, Putin, Stalin or Saddam Hussein continue to suppress and murder their citizens?

At what point do YOU just let these evil sociopaths/psychopaths get away with their pure evilness?

or

Do YOU at some point say ENOUGH!! I will not be part of a sociopaths/psychopaths manipulative deception cunningness plot I will fight them.

I love Pope Francis…this week he has taken on the mafia…that takes guts…but he has said ENOUGH with evil and he has choose to fight against evil instead. That takes integrity, high morals & ethics.

It’s easy to just walk away but it takes a strong minded person to persue justice from the wrong doing of a psychopath/sociopath.

The distinction is that the lawyers for Madoff victims, Armstrong criticizers, Pope Francis etc. did not turn over 14 years of their lives and everything they had to “fight the good fight”.

It’s just as difficult and valorous to walk as it is to fight. I doubt that Katherine planned to give over her entire life for 14 years for retribution’s sake. It’s more unplanned and getting caught up in it… Like a gambler can blow through everything on a losing streak with the wishful hope that “this hand” will pay off.

I hear your anger Jan7. I’m going to assume that a serious wrong has been done to you personally. And I’m also going to assume that you’re right where you have to be emotionally about it. If you do take action for justice, make a pact to yourself about how long you’ll seek it, how much you’ll spend for it and that you’ll never make it be the thing your life stood for.

Viewpoint…you are wrong…the victims of Madoff fought for their money for YEARS and I believe still are fighting for their life savings, the people who were trying to expose Armstrong for his fraud fought for YEARS to expose his con game, the Jewish citizens who lost their loved ones at the hands of Hitler and along the Worlds Courts are still finding Nazi military leaders 60 years after the war ended and are bring them to justice. Pope Francis is not going to quite fighting evil Mafia psychopaths he has to much gumption to do less then that….

Do you tell a rape victims of a serial psychopath rapist just to not bother bring their rapist to court for justice? Do you tell a victims family who’s loved one was murdered by a psychopath just not to bother with having the police find the culprit or seeking justice in court because it will take years? Do you tell them it’s “not worth the long fight”? How about human traffickers or pimps or psychopath drug dealers do you just let them run ramped without throwing them in jail?

Seems like in your mind that our society should just do away with the worlds justice system and just let the psychopaths of the world have their fun at the expense of victims. Katherine won a court order for that psychopath to return her money, she has every right to go after her money…it’s her life and her future. The problem is not Katherine fighting her fight for so long it lies with the court not immediacy freezing his bank accounts, assets and garnishing his wages immediately. This is what needs to change.

Without seeking justice our world would go into a chaotic state at the hands of all the psychopaths on this planet.

Thank you Jan!

Jan 7:Still disagree. I disagree with the notion that justice stems the tide of chaos and I take issue with your examples because they all have significant differences from the singlehanded fight for financial retribution.

Punishment has not attenuated crime in this country one bit. And I have not advocated a society without punishment. What I have spoken up to is the singlehanded cause for financial retribution. I should add that there risks a downside to society for any singlehanded cause for the “victims of the victim” fall out. The life of anyone connected to the victim can be negatively impacted by how the identified victim managed the crime done to them; particularly, children of a victim. The war cry to “fight the good fight” (singlehandedly) overlooks the reality of attention/effort/means drawn to that fight to inherently take away from attention to parenting” Or more, perhaps, from functioning productively in society. Pointedly, was Underwood’s brother repaid before she took up her cause? And what is their relationship today; not because of his loan unpaid but because of her pursuit? Has he lost the sister she once was?

It’s fair to say that anyone with an investment in the identified victim wants them to recover more than anything; including justice. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely to be a “two for the price of one” business; ie, that when justice prevails, recovery comes” especially for a singlehanded battle. It’s more likely that the battle will stunt recovery because it calls for maniacal focus on the dark business, it typically takes years, there’s insults to injury in the justice seeking and support systems wear out. Too, some things spent are not recoverable and are, themselves, dearer than money: Time is lost for good, health can be jeopardized, connections lost and even the ways of being/doing that the victim enjoyed about themselves.

I speak from experience. While I did defer from seeking retribution for substantial money stolen, I did a 7 year pursuit to find my kidnapped son” A battle forced upon me; one with no other viable/palatable choice. It was all that I say in costs (and more) even though “victorious”. I had two other sons that I had to raise while doing the battle: Our relationship and bond suffered for it because no one can do anything of such intensity and do other responsibilities well… No matter how noble the cause. And I lost other important stuff that I have already described, as well.

It’s been 15 years since I did the battle that brought my son home and that time of my life is now so foreign to me. It’s rare that I think about it much less talk about it. I’m glad that it isn’t my signature piece for my life. I’m glad to have an everyday kind of life and short of my sons or grandkids’ welfares, I would never do such a battle again.

As for getting justice for the kidnapping, I didn’t care about that. If I ever did care, it was to understand that it wouldn’t have been justice to my son to seek it. He needed to come home and spend the rest of what was left of his childhood carefree. The perpetrator was his father. To have brought justice upon his father would have actually been doing more of the same to my son’s life: Denying him that important and necessary childhood. He’d already had 7+ years of his childhood chewed up in the lousy doings of his kidnapping father.

No doubt, society was made better for my thinking through the ordeal and in the aftermath. I took the pursuit/battle on to do justice for my son, not to do it for society or myself: It was critical that my son know, at least, that he was so very loved, even if it was to be that he chose not to return home with me. (However, he did come home with me.) It was also critical that he have the rest of his childhood to be relatively carefree and that whatever his feelings be for his father, those be honored regardless of my feelings. It was critical that my son have available to him all the love and care there is for him. That’s what counted.

My son loves his father and they enjoy a relationship (of sorts) today. His love and relationship with his father are different than his love and relationship with me. The point is that he has everyone available to him. And for this, he is a contributor to the good in society rather than a depleter” An extraordinary person. Could he have been made to be so if I or society got justice for his father’s kidnapping? No. It would have brought more harm to my son to be part of seeking justice. Society was served better to have a solid, successful, compassionate and full of vitality person in it’s mix than it would have been served on the theory that it would have been spared the father” And spared him without expense to anyone else.

I believe this: That a child is assaulted by parental misguided doings and those assaults will create a crack in him/her. Given any given situation of distress that crack can break wide open and swallow that kid up ” To deny him/her a good future. It’s the obligation of any parent to ward off that crack from being created. And to do so, may just mean leaving well enough alone; stepping up to (even) heroic toleration. What kids hate most are parents fighting because that fighting always interferes with a child’s life. And he just wants to have his life without those troubles. Warding off the crack can mean quitting the fight as righteous as it may be or seem. Every parent in a relationship split gets too damn righteous for their own good or their children’s welfare”. Including me, once.

Which bring me to the matter of personal culpability. I had culpability in what happened to my son: His father was under threat of losing joint custody, serious threat. The father turned out to be a cross dresser with some other questionable sexual fetishes that came to light in a personal diary discovered. That document was bound to repulse the court and I used it because I was in the one down position: The father had means, had a respected career as a physician and had a better set up to raise our son than I because he had remarried. Until the discovery of this journal, all I had was the knowledge that the father didn’t relate well to children and was a big fan of therapy (which hadn’t done him too much good) who would likely, have my son in therapy at a young age (And that he did while hiding my son). I feared my son would endure a stigma for his father’s love affair with therapy and become whittled down for it. Anyhow, that diary was the great leveler. Could I have seen the kidnapping coming? No and yes. I couldn’t see that particular but I could see the desperateness and destabilizing. And had I not been so “righteous”, which had an underpinning of personal resentments, I could have seen that repair was in order: Some actions done (at least, attempted) to cool things down” Like, try to get the custody matter out of the court and worked out between us.

(To those readers of this saga who could think immediately about the welfare of my son for his father’s perversions, there’s a case for that but, in reality, not as much a case as I would have liked to think” and thought so then, when I wanted to think the worst of the clown.)

Underwood has culpability. She broke a rule of good sense and kept on breaking it. You only loan what you can afford to lose and when it’s lost, you don’t loan again. It’s when we take exemptions from the rules of good sense/principles that we louse our lives up and other lives, too. We, too often, treat our lives recklessly and are outraged when the perils come home to roost. Who should we be most angered by? The person taking advantage or ourselves who exempted ourselves? And I see a “more of the same” business in Underwood’s pursuit for justice as there was in persistently loaning/giving money: She just doesn’t quit a practice regardless of how it digs her deeper into trouble. It’s as if everything/anything is expendable for what she wants when it isn’t, it really isn’t.

About the examples you cited to make your case for “justice”: They all have significant enough differences to not be applicable.
• Madoff victims seek financial retribution like Underwood but they aren’t involved directly in the proceedings to do that much less are they doing it singlehandedly. Yet, still they have been assaulted by some of the legal wrangling and twists that they were unprepared for; namely, the “claw back” business. The victims who have fared the best through this ordeal have been those who could and did make the recovery of their money a side show; not principal to their lives.

• Victims and their families of assault crimes (molestation to murder) have both the police and the judicial system to bring the justice. Even at that, it’s a hardship for them. Families who must pursue on their own a case that has gone cold are the most similar to any person taking on justice singlehandedly.

• I don’t know about other causes, like Holocaust victims. I just know the significant distinction is whether a cause is done singlehandedly or not.

That’s it. I’m moving on. Got things to do, places to see and people to meet. That’s what life’s about for me.

This has been an interesting feed. I personally walked away from pretty much everything. It was essential to my sanity at that time. It was a hard decision which cost me more than I care to think about, and it sucked.

Each of us has our own path to healing. I prefer to celebrate Katherine Underwood’s campaign. If it ultimately gives her what she needs to heal, all the better.

Justice with sociopaths is a difficult commodity to quantify. What is justice in one case may not be justice in another case. We all have to judge at what cost we are willing to pursue justice. I think what is important here is that because of this, more people are learning about what sociopaths are and maybe in the knowledge someone is saved. Think of how worthwhile that information is to someone who recognized a sociopath and was saved from this hard life lesson.

Excellent commentary by Donna on this.
I am wondering if she was successful in getting the money back.
SITC

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