Dorothy Hooks is a Christian woman who tries to live by the Bible. When she met Cedric Youngblood, she saw a man who never had a chance. His family life as a child had been abusive. He had been in and out of jail. Dorothy saw someone who just needed to get out of the ghetto and learn the meaning of love and family.
In Dorothy, Cedric saw a giving, caring woman who wants to do the right thing and help people.In other words, Cedric saw a target.
Last week, the Cedric Youngblood story was posted on Lovefraud.com. Dorothy courageously talks about her marriage to the man who she now realizes is a sociopath. But for more than three years, Dorothy focused on Cedric’s potential, hoping he would change his abusive behavior.
Again and again, Dorothy gave Cedric another chance. She kept forgiving his cheating and his violence. She knew he could change.
He didn’t.
“I didn’t realize that for a person to change, he has to want to change,” she says. “If that person doesn’t want to change, he’s not going to change.”
Victimizing nurturing women
In his book, Without Conscience, Dr. Robert Hare points out that psychopaths (the term he uses) are experts at identifying and victimizing nurturing women.
There are many people in the world who want to think the best of everyone.Time and time again, Lovefraud has heard from people who have been deceived and defrauded by sociopaths who say, “I never knew such evil existed.”
It does.
Sociopaths make up 1% of the population. That means in the United States, there are 3 million of these predators looking for victims. These people have no heart, no conscience and no remorse. By the time they are adults, their personalities are set. Any attempt to change them is futile.
Discerning those who want to change
Of course, there are millions of people who get into trouble in their lives and deserve a second chance. So it’s important to be able to differentiate those who can be rehabilitated from those who can’t.
The first step is to accept that sociopaths exist. The second step is to know the symptoms of the disorder.
Then we may be able to discern the people who really want to change from the sociopaths who only mouth the words so they can keep bleeding us.
artheart says:
“I don’t know how to respond to specific posts.”
What I do is to copy and paste as I go along, comments from others I intend to comment on, into the “Post a Comment” box at the end of the thread. Then, when I’m done reading, I go to the box and edit and comment.
“When we were trying to “save” our marriage, I kept reading that it is best to stay with the person you are with, because when the necessary changes happen, then the person ends up being a better husband. If you don’t, then all of your hard work goes to the next person that your husband ends up with”
This can be true if you were with a NORMAL person with NORMAL flaws and issues. If, however, you are with a very DISORDERED person, this does not apply. Several of the Personality Disorders are very resistant to change or treatment; in fact, some of them preclude treatment by their very nature – the PD person does not think that anything is the matter with them, so never seeks or else refuses to be assessed for dignosis and/or treatment. Sociopathy is rarely diagnosed on a voluntary basis and is NOT treatable (anyone who has evidence to the contrary, please jump in here and correct me!)
So – you are trying to compare apples with oranges.
“I also have to see how happy he appears with his new person.”
Yes, but isn’t that how he looked with YOU, at first? It doesn’t mean it’s real.
“He tells everyone that I have done what he has done. He sends me threatening emails ”
Classis spath symptoms. If so, you can bet your bottom dollar that the “happy” look is fake – and that it will not last.
“he actually says with the most sincere heart that he was never unfaithful in our marriage, and this new person and, I think, even his children believe him! He was horrendous during our marriage in so many ways, and he has turned it all on me.”
No. Not with any kind of “heart”, much less a “most sincere” one!!! He says it with a scheming and manipulative mind for an immoral and unprincipled purpose. The truth will out, in the end. Patience. xx
“How do I move past this?”
Read here. Post here. LISTEN here. Much good advice to be had, much healing for your soul and heart and good information for your mind. We will all help one another – THAT’S how we each move past this.
Not-too-late –
“Does that mean that if the spath wants to change, he will change?….Ex has been insisting he wants to change, even saying that that is all he thinks about. Of course, he asked me to help him many times, and finally he gets it that I am not going to help him.”
The only “change” a spath can make is to “change tack”. If he is a spath, then any alleged remorse or any professed repentance is nothing more than a tactical manouvre. Yes, it is true that NORMAL people with NORMAL flaws and issues CAN change if they really want to and if they work hard at doing so.
You need to first determine whether you are dealing with a “normal” person, or a disordered one. If disordered, the chances of genuine and positive change are scant. If they are a sociopath, there is NO CHANCE; but there are plenty of tricks to be played by them while they are fooling you into thinking that they might.
Mine looked so genuinely remorseful that he collapsed on the floor, on his heads and knees, and bawled and wailed like a banshee, shaking and sobbing and begging my forgiveness and saying that I should never forgive him because he had hurt me so badly and I was such a good person who did not deserve to be stuck with the likes of him, and he dry-retched and heaved until the snot ran out of his nose and all over his face and hands.
And I though (mistakenly) – who could fake THAT?
I’ll tell you who – HE could. He has proven ever since that it was all for show. Never underestimate a spath.
EVERYTHING that they do, say and think is for a purpose. All just another part of their MASTERPLAN.
BTW Lesson – You have turned a corner these past few days. In advising others the same things you have asked about and learned here, you have moved forward in your healing journey. You might not see it or feel it just yet, but those of us who have already been there, know it to be true for you, and we rejoice and wish you peace. xx
TOWANDA girlfriend!!!!!
LOL! Aussie! Thank you!
But you’re right, I’m still in a lot of pain. I do feel a shift happening, but I’m encouraged if it’s noticed. I hope it just keeps going! This site has just been my salvation and it’s helped to help others too. 🙂
LOL Aussie,I’m sorry but that line gave me a super big chuckle
Mine looked so genuinely remorseful that he collapsed on the floor, on his heads and knees, and bawled and wailed like a banshee, shaking and sobbing and begging my forgiveness and saying that I should never forgive him because he had hurt me so badly and I was such a good person who did not deserve to be stuck with the likes of him, and he dry-retched and heaved until the snot ran out of his nose and all over his face and hands.
LMAO!!!!!!!!! NICE!!
So Aussie, what do you think of the rare narc that has supposedly changed? Eg, narcissismcured.com is run by a reformed narcissist and his wife, from Australia. They also once had a guest blogger who was a therapist for victims but was a narcissist herself. Could it depend on what the root of the narcissism is?
Look, I have no intention of reconciling. Goodbye is goodbye for me. Good luck to him if he changes.
I am just curious as to whether one could change if he wanted very badly to – otherwise, it seems unfair that they are doomed to such an existence even if they wanted to change. I am not sure if there is a personality disorder, because his psychologist doesn’t think so, but you know what I think of that psychologist. I personally think it is a combination of childhood invalidation and entitled, violence-supporting beliefs. Some go through abuse as a child but don’t end up being an abuser, so that’s no excuse, as Bancroft would say. But it would help if that part was looked at – it would help his insecurity, shame, rejection, etc.
But apart from that, he does seem to have the thinking errors of a disturbed person – entitled, defiant, egocentric, etc. That entitlement to control other people is so ingrained that he really doesn’t see what is wrong and if he didn’t control, he would feel out of control.
Ex is very good at crying too. He howled the day he left – poor 7 year old son was feeling so bad for him he asked me why he had to go. Not because he felt bonded, but because he couldn’t stand to see him cry. All those who have bothered to call me have told me that he has cried to them and it just shocked them so much they didn’t have the heart to challenge him. I guess it’s not usual to see a man cry. It’s also harder to believe that a man is a toxic dangerous jerk if he is crying as if he was upset at losing his family. Arrgh. Wish he never got arrested – he was just plain obnoxious and aggressive till then. But scary too.
No Contact? Just so hard. We have kids, we have mutual friends, we have joint property (even though we have settled property, we still own them in the same community title). Tonight, his mother arrived from interstate. He dropped her at my place and waited around the corner. Tomorrow she sees the kids again, but I arranged for lunch outside. Already tonight, during the short time at home, she has seen enough to tell him certain things. She is not very close to him anyway, but he is very good at getting things out of people. I couldn’t tell her not to come, because the kids were waiting for their Christmas gifts. She is like him – OK in small doses.
NTL –
I don’t know enough about Narcissistic PD yet; I’ll have to study up so you think I’m smart! From the little I’ve read, I have reason to believe that my father has NPD.
I did extensive research a few years ago, on Borderline PD, because I was convinced that my ex (the spath) had it. I think I mentioned it on another thread recently. Anyhow, at the time, I still believed that he was genuinely remorseful over the dreadful things he had done and that illness was driving his compulsions to do nasty and immoral things – a bit like the “voices” that a schizophrenic will hear, or the paranoia that someone with untreated Bi-Polar disorder might develop which can cause them to behave aggressively and in ways that they honestly believe mean that they are “defending themselves” against conspirators.
Spath had ALL of the indicators for BPD (although it does tend to be diagnosed more predominantly in females rather than males) BUT it was ME who falsely attributed several of the criteria that I later realised he did NOT meet. For instance, an overwhelming fear of abandonment that leads to BPD’s rejecting first, for fear that they will be rejected later. Spath had no such fears – that was my overly-kind (and admittedly heart-broken and desperate) interpretation of his rejection of me, and of significant others in his life.
Also, BPD’s tend not to have their own interests, hobbies, etc. so they “blend” and “meld” with that of their partners; they have a sense of unreality about themselves, as if they do not exist, do not count for anything and are therefore “invisible” and unimportant, which can panic them and send them spiralling into serious depressive and suicidal bouts. When spath copied everything about me and shadowed and absorbed all of my hobbies, friends and interests, what he was actually doing was holding up that mirror to me – the one in which I would see those things I liked, admired and enjoyed. He feigned complete compatability so that I would think that we were “meant to be together”. When I was trying to understand what was wrong with him, my research of BPD seemed to show that the reason he sucked my personality out of me and into him was that he didn’t think he had one of his own, or that he was “good enough”. Again, this was a way-too-kind take on what he was actually doing, which was a painstakingly cruel and deliberate scam.
Then there was the “remorse”. BPD’s as a rule, will feel terrible regret for their addictive and compulsive behaviours (gambling, drinking, sexing, drugs, shop-lifting, etc.) after the fact and hate themselves for it. Spath pretended that this was how things were with him. It took me a very long time to work out that he was not at all sorry, but was only crying just enough crocodile tears to keep me in the scam. My love for him at the time madely me kindly-disposed and compassionate toward him, as I searched for answers as to why such a “good man” could act so wickedly.
Lo and behold, if the mask didn’t drop just as soon as the psychiatrists wanted to do tests on him! Suddenly, he became angry and resistant to the help he was being offered. Once the switch came, the angry button stayed pushed and has been jammed for over 3 years in the “on” position. The vitriol and bile I have heard spew from that same mouth and the venom I have seen shot at me from those same eyes, have chilled me to the bone. He won’t change because as far as he’s concerned, nothing’s wrong with HIM; I am the “vile and disgusting person” – they were his exact words about me at a court hearing 2 months back.
This is why I believe everything I have read here and elsewhere about spaths never changing.
As for the other Personality Disorders – there are some excellent treatments available for BPD – it is emminently treatable and BPD’s can live a good and peaceful life with proper help. I guess that’s why I wanted it to be BPD so badly.
I don’t know enough about the others to comment, although I did care for a young woman with Bi-Polar disorder for about a year, and found that if she stuck to her meds and stayed away from alcohol and drugs (which were her undoing), she functioned really well and had a productive life.
Not,
My ex POS tried that same garbage with his ex wife too. At her church, to her entire family (they weren’t buying it), all their friends (only one bought it), and to the children. The crying, the reform (he’s still in therapy), reading (still gets the books, reads about a quarter of the way, then they collect dust), and NOTHING has changed in the SLIGHTEST. Not ONE thing. And it can’t because HE doesn’t see that ANYTHING is wrong. He hates therapy and his therapist (it’s not doing me any good), and I believe now that the therapy is apart of the divorce agreement to be able to have joint custody of the children. But he is the same nasty, mean, lying denying manipulative jerk he’s always been.
I know of the site Narcissismcured. I’ve read it and was nauseated. I think it’s INCREDIBLY dangerous. That is just my opinion. ALL of the N’s I’ve known, were NOT curable. I think “cure” is the wrong word even IF by any stretch of the imagination, they were able to be dealt with via medication and/or cognitive behavioral therapy.
I think the manipulation here is huge on his end and YOU are the target.
I think the contact you have with he and his fam, (More than one should be given KNOWING what he is), will make it VERY difficult for you NOT to go back. Just sayin…
Stay strong.
When my xhusb wanted to reconcile right before the final divorce…(which my lawyer said was to wipe out the 2ok he owed me…and he knew my mother was dying and I would be getting some money….HA!)…the top notch therapist..(luckily) who told me that he was a true sociopath..(part of the brain..called the conscience..is missing!)….
This therapist told me that there is NO cure, therapy, or medication for his disorder. He said that if he was bipolar or had OCD…he could be helped.
The divorce judge stated in court…”You are UNREHABILITATIVE”
OMg…Now I know what he meant…he also KNEW that there was NOTHING that would help him….he is EVIL…still is.
tobe,
I just wanted to take the time to say thank you. You have been enormously helpful in processing my experience. While I”m still stuck in some stuff, I’m still in process, but each time you’re willing to share your experience with me, my experience becomes more true and real. I wish there was a way to speed the process, but I know there’s not.
Thank you again.
LL
In the “for what it is worth” department, as for NPD and BPD and PPD, histriohic PD, dependent DP etc. I think there is a GREAT DEAL of OVERLAP, and I am not sure that there is any more difference between saying one is one of those than saying “a beagle” is a dog and a fox terrier is a dog, they are both dogs, and look somewhat different, or even a beagle vs a mastiff they are all DOGS just a bit different in how big or small, color and so on. Some are more aggressive than others and some are more passive but they are all DOGS. So I think you can say THEY ARE ALL PERSONALITY DISORDERS, and there is a great deal alike about ALL personality disorders.
The only difference is that we can’t LOOK at them and see that they are “different” breeds, yet the SAME SPECIES. I think we spend way too much time arguing with ourselves and each other over which “breed” a personality disordered person is, and it is my opinion IT DOES NOT MATTER, once you see that there are TOXIC PATTERNS you have nailed the SPECIES “PERSONALITY DISORDERED” and that is as far as you need to go. Nothing you do is going to make them change species. You can’t turn a cat into a dog, or a dog into a cat….just not possible. You may be able to dress the cat up to look like a dog but it will never BE a Dog. Same with a PD of any breed, they are PD and nothing will change that….no matter how many manners you teach them, or how much formal education you give them or how much money they get they are still the SAME SPECIES. Bernie Madoff is the same species as Ted Bundy, just not the same “breed” of murderer and rapist, but the SPECIES is the same.