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By | September 5, 2009 218 Comments

Garrido and Mitchell: two sociopaths who are also delusional

“Suddenly, everything made sense, I was not crazy, I had been dealing with a psychopath!” explained a woman this week as she told the story of how she discovered “psychopathy” and Dr. Hare’s diagnostic symptoms. With this discovery, she learned that a personality disorder is behind the behavior of people who manipulate and harm others without guilt or remorse. Prior to learning about psychopathy, the woman said she held the view that all people were basically good and needed the same things. Understanding psychopathy/sociopathy gave her the ability to make sense of a world where a small fraction of individuals do a tremendous amount of harm- AND YET THESE INDIVIDUALS ON THE SURFACE SEEM PERFECTLY NORMAL.

As we discussed the kidnapping of Jaycee Lee Dugard, that same woman questioned whether Phillip Garrido (the kidnapper) is “a psychopath.” She tended to think that Garrido, “Is not a psychopath” and that schizophrenia or some delusional disorder was behind Garrido’s monstrous behavior. According to my friend, “a psychopath” is not mentally ill, is in contact with reality, and yet perpetrates evil anyway. For her the appearance of sanity is an essential characteristic of a psychopath/sociopath.

This week I want to discuss Garrido, and Brian David Mitchell (Elizabeth’s Smart’s kidnapper). These two men are strikingly similar. But first I have to tell you about my own moment of awakening with regard to psychopathy. Just like my friend’s moment, my moment made sense of the world, however it came after years of experience with antisocial people and after years of reading about the disorder. In my moment I realized that psychopathy explains evil.

Yes, I said psychopathy explains evil. This statement is true even though people who are not “psychopaths” do plenty of evil. Because psychopathy explains evil, its importance extends far beyond enabling us to identify the most recidivist criminals, or those who we should avoid going on dates with.

How did it come to pass that psychopathy explains evil? My friend is correct in that originally psychopathy (more than 100 years ago) was called “moral insanity.” It was conceived of as a disorder where people who have an intact mind repeatedly violate the rights of others. Then, Dr. Hervey Cleckley intensively studied the case histories of those he believed to be “psychopaths.” From his experience with many cases Dr. Cleckley developed a list of traits he believed could be used to identify those with the disorder.

Dr. Robert Hare took those traits and used them, along with other personality disorder criteria to develop the PCL-R which is now the best way to “diagnose psychopathy.” Forensic professionals have administered the PCL-R to thousands of offenders and to people with substance abuse issues. From these studies we know that “psychopathy” is actually not a category it is a continuum. In fact the PCL-R scores of offenders are all markedly elevated above those of general population samples (like college students). There is no absolute cut-off score that identifies “true psychopaths.” Instead, for every point increase in score the risk of doing evil increases. The PCL-R is a very good measure of an individual’s risk to offend against others and society.

Psychopathy, as currently measured by the PCL-R is then a trait that is present in everyone to a greater or lesser degree. This trait cuts across diagnostic categories. Think of it like you would intelligence as measured by IQ tests. Everybody has an IQ but it is only when the scores are very high or very low that they come to define or categorize a person. Psychopaths are the equivalent of geniuses who score so high and are so different from average that this difference becomes a defining quality.

Scientists use a cut score of 25-30 on the PCL-R to identify and study “psychopaths.” When studying psychopaths scientists exclude from their studies people who also have other obvious defining qualities like mental retardation and delusions/hallucinations. By looking at the “pure” top end of the distribution they can study those who are most prone to doing evil and try to determine the brain disorder that underlies doing evil. People at the top end are more likely to be measurably different from other people.
Since the psychopaths researchers study are free from other disorders, any brain findings can be attributed to psychopathy. In such studies, several brain abnormalities have been found and linked to the behavior of psychopaths. The brain regions found to be abnormal in psychopaths are those regions demonstrated to be responsible for moral loving conduct in all of us. Abnormalities are also seen in those regions where aggressive impulses originate.

Again, using the analogy of intelligence, if we study what makes geniuses smart we learn something about what makes the average person smart. When we study what is wrong with psychopaths we learn something about what causes all of us to express and act on aggressive impulses.

In broader studies, scientists have discovered that the people who score over 25 on the PCL-R are a diverse group. While they share the symptoms of psychopathy, they may differ in important ways including the presence of other psychiatric disorders and mental retardation. Some psychopaths are also mentally ill above and beyond the psychopathy. Some experience delusions, particularly grandiose delusions and some hallucinate. There are many people who have delusions and hallucinations and yet do not harm others because psychotic disorders usually do not impair the moral brain, and the content of their delusions or hallucinations does not produce aggression.

Both psychotic and non-psychotic psychopaths experience increased impulses to harm others and they lack the moral brain mechanisms to restrain these impulses. That gets me to Garrido and Mitchell. Both men have grandiose delusions and have impaired contact with reality. However, both were organized enough to plan and carry out kidnapping and sexual assault. (This is actually evidence for psychopathy since psychopathy has been linked to sexual assault and sexual perversion in many studies.)

Both Garrido and Mitchell are also psychopathic enough so that the cries and suffering of their victims and their victim’s families meant nothing. Both remain self absorbed and have failed to show any real remorse for their actions. In fact, Garrido said in one of his news interviews that we would all come to see his story as “heart warming.” It makes intuitive sense that if a psychopath were to develop delusions, they would be of a grandiose nature since grandiosity is part of the disorder. The psychosis just exaggerates what is already there. Similarly when psychopaths hallucinate, they hear voices that tell them how wonderful and special they are. Of course G-d and angels talk to them!

In summary, I believe Garrido and Mitchell are both highly psychopathic. They both have disorders in multiple brain systems, including those important in reality orientation and those involved in the generation and inhibition of aggressive sexual impulses. One of my supervisors called such individuals schizopaths (combined schizophrenia and psychopathy). Schizopaths are the most dangerous individuals in our society because they have no restraint over the impulses generated by the psychotic process.

On this blog, we have talked about the need for laws to protect society from psychopaths. In my opinion, it makes sense to start with schizopaths. Offenders identified with both psychotic and psychopathic tendencies should be considered a special group. After even one serious offense, these individuals should be kept incarcerated or hospitalized to protect the public. One strike you’re out is justified because of the chronic nature of combined psychopathy and psychosis.

Next week, the female accomplices of Garrido and Mitchell.


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breckgirl

This —-> Psychopathy, as currently measured by the PCL-R is then a trait that is present in everyone to a greater or lesser degree. This trait cuts across diagnostic categories. Think of it like you would intelligence as measured by IQ tests. Everybody has an IQ but it is only when the scores are very high or very low that they come to define or categorize a person. Psychopaths are the equivalent of geniuses who score so high and are so different from average that this difference becomes a defining quality.

IS so amazingly helpful. It makes so much sense out of what was incomprehensible behaviour. I get it. Thank you!

neveragain

Thank you! This brought so much clarity to my thinking. Powerful blog. The analogy to IQ is wonderful and FINALLY I think I’ve got it! Also agree totally with your recommendation.

neveragain

And your explanation of how this all explains evil. Brilliant!

skylar

This all makes sense but I wonder about one thing that doesn’t seem to fit.
Most of the time I’m overly sympathetic and can’t stand to hurt or see suffering. So much so that I would rather suffer than see others have any pain.
But since I left my P, I have occasionally felt deep feelings of anger and vengence toward him and other P’s. They don’t last and are often replaced again by the wishful thinking of healing or saving him.
These angry feelings are foreign as if they are not my own but feelings he put inside me. Where does that fit in the continuum?

skylar

BTW, the feelings feel “evil” and I feel guilty during the time I have them, but the guilt doesn’t relieve the feelings. I have to actively choose to reject or ignore them, then they go away.

Ox Drover

Liane another thought provoking and informational article….the “schizopaths”–that is a great term for this kind of psychopath with other mental health issues.

They (schizopaths) are unfortunately turned loose on society over and over since the Reagan administration loosed them in the mid-70s I ithink it was—I saw working in mental health inpatient settings that as soon as the cops take them off the street, they are forceably medicated, but the very moment they are “rational” or close to it and NOT AN IMMEDIATE DANGER to themselves or others, they are put back ON THE STREET, where they have no homes, no families and no medication—THEY ARE “REFERRED” to outpatient facilities at which they never show up. Guess what?! Before long, they are either again dangers to themselves or others, or they have actually KILLED OR INJURED SOMEONE SEVERELY in which case they are arrested and put in prison, under a timed sentence for lthat “crime” then at the end of that time (or earlier) they are “paroled” BACK ON TO THE STREET….

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

It appears that Garrido with his earlier sexual crimes, and going to prison, for a TIMED release and then supposed, but not actual, monitoring by the “parole” system was again able to continue his crimes unslowed by “law” —-until he started to become delusional as well as psychopathic. It was only a miracle of God that he was spotted by an observant law enforcement woman who followed on her hunch that “something was wrong.”

While I am in favor of mentally retardeed being able to live in the “least restrictive environment” and having as much self determination as is reasonable…to use that “good” intention to ALSO release schizopaths againi and again on the streets until their crimes are so piled up that they are incarcerated for life, fails to take into consideration the RIGHTS of individuals in this society to live FREE FROM ATTACK by ANYONE who is known to be DANGEROUS.

It will take a complete overhaul of our current laws, our current society’s idea that there is “good in everyone” and that all “evil behavior” in people is redeemable with enough education, kindness, pity and money thrown at the problem.

One of my FAVORITE “psychology” cartoons from long ago shows a burned out house in the back ground and a small girl, about 4 or 5 in the foreground, her mother is squatted down in front of her, speaking to her, and says to the daughter.

“Mommie and Daddy are not mad at you, Susie, Mommie and daddy are mad at the NAUGHTY THING YOU’VE DONE.”

iN SO MANY WAYS, I think our society says to psychopathic criminals “Your country, Mr. manson, is not mad at you, we are mad at the naughty things you’ve done.”

We also seem to say to the families of those victims of Mr. manson’s “naughty behavior” that “He had a difficult life growing up in poverty, and foster homes, so it wasn’t all his fault.”

Until our society comes to the realization that there are EVIL people, there are DANGEROUS people, and there are EVIL AND DANGEROUS people who should be kept separate from society for the GOOD OF SOCIETY even if it does “restrict” their “free choices” of which individuals to hurt.

Of course I am walking on very shaky Constitutional grounds here, but I agree with you Liane that there are some crimes that ONE STRIKE you are OUT should be the case, but in ALL cases, I think 3 felony strikes you are out would cover at least a great majority of the continual criminal and psycholpathic behavior in our society today.

Until our society (our world) criminalizes EVIL behavior, they will flourish among us….like it has always apparently been.

As much as I do not care for Saudia Arabia’s laws, they have pretty well stopped theft with their punishments of cuttin goff the right hand of thieves (which also precludes that person from dipping the left hand which is used to clean themselves, into a communial cooking pot and thus eating with “good” people), the third theft is punished by cutting off the head of the thief.

We supposedly “criminalize” drunk or high driving, but in FACT, if your “daddy is somebody” usually the punishment is not harsh, even the 3rd, 4th and 5th time it is committed.

Laws are not uniformly enforced by our society. So there are a GREAT many things in our society that would have to change before any real progress could be made in ridding our society of EVIL people such as violent psychopaths or schizo-paths.

FRUSTRATING isn’t it?

Easy

The feelings feel evil! That is because to take pleasure in someone elses pain is evil! The more the person had a grip on my emotions the more he choose to punish me for having those emotions that he could not have! What he could not posses was considered a weekness because he could not posses them! He used my own emotions against me as a tool of control!
To make me a weekling because I cared !

He said You Bring this shit on your self! Oh so true! by forgiving repeatedly for the same thing I did bring it on my self! I wanted to believe that there was more there than really was there ! And the cycle continues to this day accept with out me as a pawn!

banana

OXY…
where was my last post?
I am interested to read the advice others have given. Maybe tilly left a wound : )

Tilly

banana:
Excuse me?

Tilly

Please Explain…………

Vision

I agree with OxDrover on the letting loose of those who should be kept from society due to their uncontrollable behaviors. etc.

That description is a new one for me “schizopaths”…

It is amazing how the system releases criminals and the “insane” upon society…..Like some sci-fi surreal world where we have to watch and figure out who is who, who are the sp’s, the evil masked aliens waiting to take us out of our bodies….yikes!!

One small example of something similar although not exactly, to show how “dumb” our law enforcement officials can be or (system to protect us):

I was attending a local Pow Wow sponsored by Native Americans. I go every year and it is a wonderful event. They have there own security at this event with the local police on hand to assist them if need be. But the Native security force is what goes……they can kick you out if they choose to….They have a no alcohol rule….

I was looking for seating during the story telling event with my two children, ages 4 and 14…..We found some seating on some hay blocks which were there for everyone to sit on……My husband (at the time) and I sat down and put the kids in front on some hay blocks.

Then a man with two women came over after 15 minutes and this man was very nasty and had been drinking. He told us to move, that these were his seats! He pointed to a cooler and said he was sitting here….and started wo swear at us……We didn’t move and told him he had left and the seats were open for anyone to sit on….. he then proceeded to harass my 14 year old daughter and sit right next to her…saying Fine, then I will sit here! He started to talk dirty to her….before my husband went crazy with anger and a fight started, I warned him that if he did not leave I would report him to the elders. He laughed and swore at us and continued to harass us all….

I then left and went to the leaders and reported what was going on. This man also had a knife in his belt. I was told to just go back and sit down. Within a few moments we were surrounded by the Native American security…..10 Indians stood there at attention while the head of security asked me if there was a problem…..

Before I could speak, this nasty man started to curse and said that after she tells her story, I will tell you mine……The leader of security asked him if that was a beer in his hand……The leader then snapped his fingers in the air and pointed to security to take the cooler…..He told this man he was to leave and was not allowed back into the event…..( I told him as he left that I had a bad feeling still and I was afraid this man would come back in and he had a knife…..)

He escorted this man to the gates where the police were stationed and explained that he was not allowed back in…..

The leader of security then stayed around and watched from a distance and here is what happened.

The nasty man started to talk and laugh with the police….He talked to them for at least 20 minutes….The police laughed back and after the 20 minutes, the police allowed him to come back into the event…….

He was immediately stopped by the head of security, the one who was watching, and this time was watched as he drove off on his bike with his friends as well……Plus a special security was set up so this man could not get back in…….The police were uncaring and had an attitude…..and would have let this sp back in to maybe stab us with a swift knife thrust in the back and then have disappeared and no one would have known……

Thankfully, the Native Americans had there stuff together….

Just a small example of one of the sorry tales of the lack of protection from these animals……If the institutions let them out and the law enforcement allow them to con them, we have to protect ourselves the best we can…..

And the sad stories of killings despite the paperwork for them to stay away from us or the pleadings with the police for protection.

No one really investigated that Girrido home even when the suspicion was voiced….A lame investigation was all it was…..

skylar

Vision, that is so typical of cops. My P has all the cops on the island wrapped around his little finger. They won’t even respond to me when I asked them why they let him get away with all the crap he did.
When I reported my mail missing from the mailbox service last year, the cop said, “Oh, you just want your pound of flesh.”
I don’t personally know any Native Americans, but my P HATES Native Americans. There are reservations all around in my area and they have casinos. My P says he hates casinos (because I do) and that Natives are the lowest blah, blah, blah.
Then I find coffee cups from the casino in his truck. LOL.

breckgirl

Vision – Your story is so outrageous and yet so common – the local police force Ihas been similarly schmoozed by my ex – only 3 officers i trust there anymore. My experience with my N who is in jail for 16 months for 5 cases having to do with harassment of me but who will really serve maybe 5 months and then all restraining orders etc will be dropped by the criminal courts it is amazing. He has proven over and over again that he will not obey the law, and that consequences really do not bother him. In fact he has admitted to others he enjoys jail for periods of time. Yet the judges and the DA and so forth really – they just want the case off of their desk I suppose. The probation department has been awesome but they will no longer be involved once he is out.

It is sickening.

neveragain

Skylar wrote “These angry feelings are foreign as if they are not my own but feelings he put inside me. Where does that fit in the continuum?”

I think it just means you were the victim of someone way over on the continuum , a P.

We have justifiable anger. There is nothing wrong with the anger. It is, in fact, a good thing. Your empathy and wanting to defend innocents needs to be focused on defending yourself now. And anger helps.

But we have a choice of what to do with that anger. For me, I used it to help his other victims get a handle on what they are dealing with, and his potential victims as well. Now I’m completely out of his life, he is out of mine. He mildly stalked me for 40+ years, so my guard is up, but I have a reaction in mind for every possible scenario…if he calls, if I see him etc. Rehearsed in my mind. So that I can maintain NC and also go NC in my mind as much as possible.

But there was a time when I was thinking of evil ways to get revenge. The anger is good. Started to act like them is not. I got over that.

Vision

Sky, it is like I am watching some horror flick reading how your P cons the cops on the island…..and you aren’t taken for serious…..you really are on an island, girl!!!
S..t !!!!

At least you can run to a rez to escape…..

Breakgirl: yes it is sickening…..and probably a few of the cops are sp and no one knows!!!! That is really scary…..probably some stories about that as well around….

He enjoys jail….sure why not? It is like a con convention….exchange stories……swap victims…..work out in the exercise room to get even stronger and show off those muscles for the next victim…..get drugs…..make more contacts…..and all for free….we pay and they play…..

God, it is sickening….

skylar

Vision,
I haven’t even told you any of the good stuff.
He and the neighbor kept calling the cops to report me missing… I won’t bore you with the details. It was like everything else DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA.

Vision

And by the way, think about this…..In my story, the head of the Native security listened to me about still worrying that this creep might still come back in……He told me later that after I had said that to him, he hung back to see what would happen…..and saw the guy talk his way back in……He told me that my intuition served me well…..

But he believed me and although only a feeling, he acted upon that. Too bad more of the law enforcement don’t…..

Maybe I will go live on a rez…..Sure they have problems like the rest of us, but it seems their security is truly in force!!

Vision

Sky,
This is too much…..reporting you missing! Wow, it is a horror movie….

skylar

but Vision,
why didn’t the security force guy go up to the cops and hold them accountable?
or even pre-empt them by telling them, “DO NOT LET THIS GUY IN AGAIN OR WE WILL CLOBBER HIM”

Tilly

Banana:
I’m still waiting for that explanation Bnanaa in Pyjamas………

Tilly

“Prior to learning about psychopathy, the woman said she held the view that all people were basically good and needed the same things” , I too believed this. But now i realise the opposite is in fact, true.

neveragain

Tilly….you remind me of how I used to be. You jump to any bait…even if it isn’t clear it was bait or not. In so doing, you are still letting others control you.

“Watch this….I can make JAH get really pissed. All I have to say is….Guarantee she will fly off the handle at that! It’s really funny to watch!”

Don’t let others bait you. In some of my self-defense courses we learn how to take a shove by NOT fighting it, but turning in the direction that it is going. If the other person had enough force behind it, they fall flat on their face and you are still standing.

Now I more react with curiosity to bait, if anything. like “How interesting you feel that way.” And that is it! I drop it! And change the subject to what *I* want to discuss.

Other people’s criticisms say more about them than about you.

Truly.

Well, we teach best what we most need to learn! I can do this in the work place great and it really works well. Still working on it in friendships! But just about there.

Tilly

Thankyou just abouthealed! I thought we had another elton John (piano man) on here for a minute.

Tilly

Banana in Pajamas is a playschool show we have over here for toddlers. lol!

Tilly

Donna :
When i press the preview button I lose my post and always have to rewrite it.

Tilly

Lianne Leedom:
Brilliant Post…..except we already have too many words for psychopath. “Naricissiopath and schizopath ” just confuse us more.
Schizophrenics are known to go off their medication, it is a common symptom when they think they are well. That is when they can be extremely unpredictably violent. I thing society genmerally know that. When they are given scheduled antipsychotic injections they are largely controllable.
Not so the psychopath. If they don’t get what they want they are ALWAYS CAPABLE of unpredictable violence.
Society needs to learn all the various euphemisms for psychopath (e.g. antisocial behavior, cluster B etc.). As they already associate psychopaths with the psycho in Alfred Hitchcocks shower. They NEED to learn that it is INCURABLE to date.

Rosa

Tilly:

I LOVE YOU!!

I really feel like you are my soul sister (and I never used to believe in that stuff).

Tilly

Would you call a “tilly wound” an abusive comment ? I certainly would.

Tilly

Rosa:
Your timing is always PERFECT! Thankyou…you are definitely my Guardian Angel!!!xoxoxoxoxo

Tilly

Pssst: I love you too ! I’m off to see the “shizonarcissiopsychopaths at uni” LOL! wish me luck! ((((ROSA)))x00x0x0x0xx0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0

Rosa

Tilly:

Going on 6 weeks to go…and counting.

neveragain

Tilly, my point is, so what if it is abusive? What’s that got to do with you? NOTHING!!! Give it the attention it DESERVES, which is nothing!

Recently at a meeting a co-worker brought to the attention of the whole group three typos I had made in an important document. My only comment was to say “Thanks” and smile.

Several people in the group commented afterwards that the co-worker is “always making an ass of himself, isn’t he?”

In not getting defensive, not providing an explanation, I showed that that fact that I had made three errors didn’t bother me that much. I’ll proof better in the future, but I didn’t even verbalize that. Anything I said would have just brought attention to the whole issue even more.

Ox Drover

Tilly, I think we are ALL “twitchy” sometimes! I think that is part of the territory we are left with after the psychopath!

Caution is good! Terror is bad! I’m trying to stay in the “caution” area like YELLOW LIGHT!

Sometimes things will trigger us, though, and we go directly to the DEFENSE mode! Gosh, I remember when I ran into my X-P-BF at the auction (MY territory) unexpectedly—IMMEDIATE TERROR!

Or when I ran into my egg donor at the grocery IMMEDIATE TERROR!

That is slowly fading, but I ahve to keep working on it! The article Louise G. wrote about being triggered by her boyfriend “working late” is a perfect example of what can happen to us unless we keep a lid on the TERROR and just use CAUTION. Not always easy to do. (((hugs))))

missdiaz

Again , it is great to come here and read posts and just know the reality of how P’s are & behave.

I know that I really have to decide to NC. This is also what my mother wnats me to do. Otherwise, I am opening a door for this crazy newly married P to mess up my life again, because he likes the attention and control he gets with contact with me. I have to love myslef enough to break free from the seemingly addictiveness of when I have had recent contact with him. Any advice on this stage of the game is very appreciated. I still feel like I am on sticky paper – or his web or something….I want & need more tools to get away and not be so nice & open with him when he calls or I run into him.
At least now he’s on a trip with his wife. But when he gets bavck I am rather sure he will call/try to see me. I know I need to say “no, you are a married man & this is innapropirate”; by the way he was with me for one yr then he took off and married this other woman who has 4 children from another man (15yrs & he left her). So I guess you could say he picked an easy target, as she was lost without a man & he rushed in to save the day. Typical behavior on his part to always appear the hero.
He’s not my hero. I know he’s my nemisis. Now I just have to walk the walk and keep away from him for good. Again, advice is warmly welcomed. Love from Montreal!

neveragain

I still have other PTSD symptoms. If my loving husband walks into the room unexpectedly, I jump a mile high. If there is a loud bang, I really startle! Someone sneezes, I jump!

Obviously I’m on high alert. Someday I will work on getting over that. I’ve been attacked by a stranger in “safe” places (a house, and a hotel shower), and once was in a bombing and got covered in bricks, and had a loaded gun held to my head by a mob….all before age 21, and there were other things too, but those are just the ones were I was caught by surprise. And I’ve never been able since to not jump at loud or unexpected noises, etc.

Controlling my reaction to verbal attacks has been a much easier change for me. We all have our issues to tackle! Everyone does.

neveragain

Missdiaz….try reading:
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/how-to-end-up-being-the-other-woman/
It isn’t about P’s, so take what it says and magnify the bad parts 1 million times for a P/S/N!

neveragain

PS Missdiaz: There is also a three part series that starts here. Really good. Helped me.

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/being-the-other-woman-the-lessons-i-learnt-part-1/

skylar

JAH,
That’s how I was!
I’m not sure if I still am, but my senses were on contant high alert. I could see a spider walk across a dark room from the corner of my eye.
One time I was walking in the forest with the P. I suddenly stopped and looked straight up above my head. Way high in the tree branches were two very strange birds sitting together. They were camouflaged in the leaves. I called my P to come look. He looked and looked but couldn’t see them because they were so well camouflaged. Finally he saw them. He stared for a while and then said, “What I can’t figure out is how you saw them.” I don’t know how I saw them either, but my sixth sense and third eye noticed EVERYTHING.

Another time I was driving and a mouse jumped in front of the car – doing about 55. I swerved and missed the mouse. My P said, “Quick reflexes”. I had been yawning when it happened. Similar things happened many times.
I was so alert that I could not sleep for the past 15 years without large amounts of alcohol or sleeping pills.

Now I understand that my subconscious was very aware of danger. I developed a fear of heights which I never had before. Self-defensive I’m sure. If I don’t get near the ledge, I can’t be pushed off.

skylar

BTW, JAH,
What were you doing to get you in such dangerous situations!?

Tilly

Do I leave wounds wherever I go on lovefraud? If I do I am really sorry. Especially to you Banana. I am so so sorry. I would never try to wound you, as a matter of fact, I don’t remember EVER having blogged to you. I clicked on ” report the abuse”. Because i actually havn’t ever conversed with you banana. So in my books you are clearly what we Aussies call a “backstabber”. And over here we aussies always confront backstabbers. Mostly they disappear. But sometimes they have the courage to face the person they are trying to humiliate. I guess back stabbing isn’t really abuse, even when you havn’t ever chatted with the person. I guess it is just trying to justify why others have rejected you. But who knows? And to be honest, who gives a f##K!! After spending five hours with my schizonarcissopsychopath,,,NOT ME!!!!LOL!

Tilly

I have come to LF to wind down from a day of pschopath attack by my teacher and her Cluster B fan club. And Banana i was sooo good…I didn’t bite once! And I didn’t backstab once!! i.e. of course, until I came home here to relax. Nite nite banana in pyjamas, its better I chat with you than my teacher in pyjamas, at least this way I will still get my degree sweetiepie.

skylar

who is banana?

Tilly

Because five hours straight with a psychopath and a group of cluster B fans can send you crazy!!!

Tilly

Earlier posts reveal all about it…. But don’t bother skylar !! its all ancient history and a total waste of time!! SERIOUS !! It is late here and i have had a HUGE day. NITE NITE!!! oxxoxoxo

Ox Drover

JAH and tilly,

The HYPER-ALERT stage is how we react to perceived danger.

Think about this for a minute. (My usual anaimal analogy) If I am trying to get my cattle up for a vaccination or whatever and we would go on a drive, to drive them from the larger pasture into the corral, where they could be confined, and driven into a controlling chute where one by one they coujld be constrained and the vaccinations given (which of course they saw no good reason to have big needles stuck into them or the medication which was also stinging) and we “missed” getting them in and they turned and fled back into the pasture again and we had to make another drive —they were no longer “calm” and would be MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to push into the corral. They had been “assaulted” (in their minds) and had barely escaped an abuse. so now, they were twitchy and on HYPER-ALERT and would bolt at the approach of a person on foot, a herding dog, or a vehicle.

When my son came home from Texas after 18 months of being there after the attempt on his life (he had been holding a door shut against a much larger man with a gun in his hand, while his wife (on his side of the door) was trying to take the phone out of his hand as he was trying to call the police.

Even 18 months out after his attack, if I made a loud noise or yelled at the dog, or a vehicle drove up into the yard, he went into PANIC MODE almost immediately. Talk about HYPER RESPONSES.

He is much less so after nearly a year home and feeling safer, but he still is hyper alert by how he was before the attack. He went for the class and received his concealed “carry permit” which allows him to carry a concealed hand gun in any place except a federal building or other official place where such is prohibited. He does so.

The other night he was gassing his vehicle at a gas station and a weird guy approached him…by driving up next to him (not to the gas pumps) and getting out and rapidly approaching my son with some request and an over “friendly” demeanor. My son went immediately to hyper-alert, and gave the man a very stern look and in a no-nonsense tone of voice, asked the man to step away from him. Even a couple of hours later, my son was still somewhat “shaken” by this man’s odd approach, odd look, etc.

I’m not concerned that my son would over react and actually shoot someone who is not trying to shoot him first, he is too controlled for that and has too much good sense, but if that occasion DID ARISE I have no doubt that my son would defend himself as soon as he saw a weapon in the other person’s hand. For that matter, SO WOULD I.

My state of “hyper-alert” has decreased remarkably over the past few years, and so has my younger son’s, but my oldest son C is still much more hyper alert than was ever “normal” for him. He does sleep more soundly now than when he first got home, when any noise would wake him immediately, and sometimes in a state of panic. Now, the normal banging of doors and me yelling at the dog, or the barking of the dog doesn’t immediately rouse him out of a sleep into panic. In fact, he can sleep through a lot of “unusual” noises.

He is still cautious around new people and does not accept them trustingly immediately.

Running into someone/thing unexpectedly when you are not can TRIGGER any of us pretty severely, and that may last a long time…again I refer to Louise’s article about “loving again” which was posted last week. That trigger may present as anger or anxiety or distrust of someone otherwise trusted. (or all three)

BEING aware of our triggers and when those triggers are “justified” in putting us on HIGH alert or not, is a good thing. Sometimes we can become aware of a trigger, realize it is just that, and that we do NOT need to be in HIGH alert, and quickly calm down. Still, it is unnerving for a little while at least.

We also need to realize that these triggers give us a shot of HORMONES that add to our STRESS. Stress we don’t need in our lives of peace and calm. Stress that can keep us from having peace and calm in our lives.

The very peace and calm we need to HEAL ourselves. We’ve had the HIGH STRESS from being on alert for so long that our bodies and minds have been damaged from this level of anxiety, of lack of peace and calm. this is one reason that we MUST maintain emotional as well as physical NC from ANYONE or anything that increases our stress levels.

It take time and effort to DE-stress our lives, and to allow ourselves time to heal in CALM and PEACE. WE DESERVE it, and we must take ACTION to provide this for ourselves by staying away AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE from stressful people and situations.

Tilly, fo rexample is forced by getting her degree to be around the stressful people in her class—however, she can LOWER this stress by emotionally and logically realizing that these NASTY PEOPLE are “out to get her” and to let wht they say and think SLIDE off her rather than allowing herself to become angry and defensive. she can TALK herself “down” from the high stress level, high alert level, and when she is NOT forced to be around them, she can be GOOD to herslef, think about OTHER THINGS than what went on during the day. Take a nice hot bath, listen to good music and have good thoughts about herself and that this will NOT go on “forever.”

Keep in mind, we may not be in control of the situation, but we CAN be in control of our reactions and our thoughts!

Have a good day guys, and those of you in the US—a good labor Day holiday—my husband’s grand kids and great grandkids are coming in today for a 36 hour stop over on their move to another state! I get to see the babies!!!!

neveragain

Skylar…..just in the wrong place at the wrong time! SERIOUSLY. I was attacked and raped when babysitting. Clearly I did nothing to bring that on. I was attacked by a stranger while taking a shower in the hotel, did nothing careless to bring that on, it was even the middle of the afternoon! I slipped and hurt myself while a person of another race was in the bathroom and went home hurt, a rumor started while I was at home, saying it was a racial assault, the girl was threatened with expulsion. I called the dean and said it was NOT true, that I had just slipped. Then when I was going to the car a few night later with my date, I got attacked by the mob….and talked my way out of it by saying the truth! And I got bombed because someone was mad at my meek, mild dad for delivering the news (not even making the decision) that he was fired.

So truly, it was all NOT MY FAULT and I did nothing wrong!
Sometimes bad things just happen!

Oxy, I am working on living a CALM life! Agree!

hummingbird06

Tilly,

I know this is off topic, but I hope someday you sell an original abstract painting of yours for OODLES of money…that depicts a remarkably similar face of your art teacher with the body of a jackass…

skylar

Tilly,
I like hummingbirds idea. Please put it on your list of things to do!

JAH,
OMG.
I swear it makes me think we have that big neon sign on our forheads that says, “victim”. Do you have P parents? you said your dad is meek, what about your mom or grandparents?

Tilly

Hummingbird06:
Great minds think alike! I have already started a much worse visual of my teacher than that! But I will have to wait a few years to sell it, so that when she tries to sue me I can say any likeness is purely coincidental.

Tilly

Oxy:
” (he had been holding a door shut against a much larger man with a gun in his hand, while his wife (on his side of the door) was trying to take the phone out of his hand as he was trying to call the police).” This sentence goes right through me. I know this feeling all too well. It brings tears to my eyes that it happened to your son. At least the perpetrators got caught. But I live in the same distress as he does. And I can’t carry a gun. And i don’t have a bath.( but i have a good sense of humour and I love being a “big mouthed old broad!”) And this stops me from physically attacking those who try to humiliate me. I would have had a panic attack right there on the spot at that guy who approached your son. Even if he had turned out to be a gentle priest just telling me that I had a flat tyre, too bad ! 54 years of Psychopaths tend to make one slightly hypervigilant. And after what I have experienced, this old cow would be unintelligent to let them haul her down and inject her, no matter what it is with. “I will not go gentle into that good night”(Dylan Thomas). I will be the cow over in that paddock who is wild and free and still alive.

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