UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Not
I totally agree with you. I don’t look up my ex , I don’t even think about him anymore. I focus on good and happy things in life. All be brought to me was negative energy. He sucked all my life out of me. And you are so correct. No matter how hard I tried this marriage never worked because of him and him only. I can only smile when people say “maybe one day you guys can be friends again. “. Yeah right.
Nothing I did pleased him, he attacked me on every level, he tried to make me think I am crazy and insane. Why in the world would I care about him?
Jenna….
Because he very likely talked his way out of it with a series of lies. He’s got her hooked, just where he wants her.
I know when I was with the spath and I caught him lying, which I did early on in our relationship, he talked his way out of it and I wanted to believe that he was much better than the lies he told….after all, I was in love with him. But believe me when I say that is not the case.
History shall repeat itself.
carolann
Thankfully I do not know this inside of this guy’s mind, but it appears he has a proven track record of lies, deceit and manipulation. Why on earth should she be any different than any of the others he cheats with?
He does not be a friend to anyone. If he were the sort of person who chose to be a friend, he would be the sort of person who doesn’t cheat, lie, abuse, and leave his family. Who would want a ‘friend’ who makes these choices anyway?
Jenna
Shall a frog act like a prince?
“Can an Ethiopian change his skin? Can a leopard change his spots?” We are not God; and, they certainly aren’t.
Neurosinstincts addressed this question: http://neuroinstincts.com/can-psychopaths-change/
Perhaps a better question is: why do we go round and round and round in circles about it? Why not focus on our own wholeness?
Did you know that whatever we look at, we become?
Can you kindly ask others not to talk about him with you? Consider politely explaining that it’s difficult for you to talk about him and so you’d rather not. Or just change the subject if he’s brought up.
I know it’s easier said than done, but you might consider you have the option not to talk about him.
Jenna,
I understand your need to get answers and understand. Most survivors who are blindsided by betrayal and abuse from someone in what is supposed to be a love based relationship, experience the pain of confusion. It’s one of the painful negative emotions that spaths enjoy seeing us suffer. Spaths are sadists.
Most of us have found that the fundamental answer we seek – why would anyone make the choices the spaths make – doesn’t exist in terms of a normal person. They just do because they can. They do what they do because they want to, and we cannot understand it, which is a good thing.
Most survivors find answers in a broader philosophy of good and evil and the purpose of life in general. My theology and religious understanding and beliefs helped me.
Anette
I did the same. I thought about how far I came and I bought a little “Angel of courage “. Every day it reminds me how strong and courageous I was. I actually bought 2 Angels. One I gave my lawyer as a Christmas present. He calls me his “success story “. And now that angel is on his desk. I wanted to thank him for helping me to have the courage to say “enough is enough”.
This is my first comment. I have done much reading and still somewhat beat myself over believing all the lies in the first place, however I have started NC and have at last realized that just because someone else took advantage of me does not mean that I did the wrong thing for trying to help her in the first place. She fit the profile, told me she loved me, but the lies on top of lies on top of lies became too much. I have moved to another state because I fear seeing her again will such me back into the madness.
Welcome, neveragain51! If you’ve been reading here awhile, you know that we have all been there and there is always someone who can help by sharing their experiences and offering support. Good luck with NC!!
I wish so much that I could run, run, run, so far away from here! The prospect of living around here , facing the uncertainty of running into him at any point of the day is leaving me like feeling I want to just hide away.
after 8 days I have broken my NC and sent him a text saying “hi” even though I know he wont reply. and even if he does I don’t want to see him!
I think I just want to know he doesn’t hate me. I certainly don’t want to get back on any terms with him.
I now feel worse than I did before!
Sorry Elsa,
You are experiencing why NC is so powerful. We hurt and we want the hurting to stop. But we forget, there’s pain, and then there’s MORE pain. So even if it hurts when we are NC, it does stop WORSE pain. And if we practice NC, the pain lessens. It takes time but pain diminishes… whereas contact with them ALWAYS increases pain.
Try to see it as a lesson you needed in order to have certainty. And get back on that NC path! You can have peace and love and security in life. Just not with a sociopath.
and now he will be even more cross, hate me even more and feel more justified!
as much as I fear that meeting, I do want it to happen so I know how he reacts!
I feel rubbished and it hurts!
hi Elsa, you have to stop worrying about what he thinks about you…or anyone for that matter.
A sociopath is an evil predator…they do not care about anyone…look how he treats his own wife & family. He does not care about you, his wife, his family, the woman in Thailand, his children….he only cares about himself period.
PLEASE read, read, read everything about sociopathic behavior it will set your mind free from this evil predator.
He wants to destroy you, your job, your marriage, your family…this is why it is so vitally important to follow the NO CONTACT RULE…Day 1 starts now for you Elsa.
Please find a counselor who is extremely knowledgable with narcissistic abuse asap…this will help you also to set your mind free.
Do not send your son to his house ever again, do not call/text him….turn to your husband he is the man you should be focused on right now…dont let your marriage turn sour because of this evil guy it will be your biggest regret in your life.
ALso find a good hormonal specialist and get tested for cortisol levels, vitamin/mineral deficiency & hormonal imbalance these are all issues with a toxic relationship (PTSD) that need to be healed also…by getting the right hormones you will stop wanting to text this guy your anxiety will go away, your racing mind will go away. To find a hormonal specialist google “compounding pharmacy” with your city name then call them for a list of doctors and/or ask your friends. Read Mia Lundin’s book
YOU Elsa deserve so much better in your life…do not settle with evil people in your circle of friends…be selective!! This guy is pure evil. Dont let him destroy your life…take hold of your life by using the NO Contact rule asap.
You can do this Elsa but YOU must take charge of your healing process!!
I was doing well, I thought!! I am cross with myself!
but thank you for your comments. I am not sure there are such counsellors in the UK but I will search.
Hi Elsa…ah hon dont be cross with yourself…so many victims break the no contact rule but they learn that it is the only way to have peace in the mind & their hearts.
When you feel you are going to break the no contact rule come here and be very blunt with us that you feel you need help…I think you were trying to convoy this yesterday but we didnt quite catch your emotions…so next time just be blunt something like “I need help asap I think I am going to break the no contract rule” that way we know you need us to tell you why that is not a good idea.
Hon, you are breaking an addiction just like alcohol/drug addiction that this evil man created…so we are here for you. You can do this Elsa.. you are a strong woman.
If you call your National domestic abuse hotline 24/7 365 days a year they can help you at the moment too and they can guide you to your local center where they may have a recommendation but they also have free counseling at the center plus free woman group meetings that will help you too. At these meetings they dont talk about “sociopathic abuse” but nevertheless they will help you to set your mind free.
PS Elsa…there is a UK site I think you should contact the site creator because she maybe able to guide you to a good support site & a counselor who is knowledgeable with narcissistic abuse.
The site is: Baggage Reclaim by Natalie
they also have a facebook page with over 30,000 likes (ie victims)….if you chat on facebook open a new fake account then open a new fake facebook page so you can chat freely without anyone seeing what you are chatting about.
Thank you.
Day one (again) of NC
He didn’t respond. I knew he wouldn’t. I have just given him another reason to despise me!
I wish I could despise him. I do in a way but I am more angry at myself for being stupid, betraying my husband and demonstrating my weakness for him to see.
Many survivors have found that recovery goes best when one ignores the existence of the spath. It is pretty much impossible to interact with them in any way without resulting in frustration and harm to the survivor. Whatever we do to defend ourselves – despising them, not caring, whatever – they have a way of turning it around to harm us.
elsa,
The problem is, you could be PERFECT, and he’d still find a reason to be a shit. That’s why the abuse is not personal. It comes from who THEY are, not from who WE are. That he turns it back on you and blames you is just ONE of the manipulation tools in a sociopaths arsenal. There is NO peace, NO comfort, NO way to please a sociopath. If you do what they want, instead of being grateful, they just move the line of expectation so that you can NEVER get their approval. Sociopath NEVER allow You to “win” and they define THEIR “WIN” by how much they can drive you into destruction.
Try to see that he’s not NORMAL and that you live in a NORMAL world? Sociopaths are CRAZY making! Until you get yourself out of HIS crazymaking world, you will feel enormous pain. AND HE LIKES THAT, because for a sociopath, that’s the BEST “WIN”. He lives in a world of LIES and DECEIT. Therefore HIS opinion is not worth squat.
youre right! he did shift the goalposts constantly……telling me to ease things (reduce the contact) then he would contact me! it was exhausting really. then, all of a sudden he would withdraw almost completely. (never like this though)
I know I don’t “need” him and that I am a lot better off without him. I can related to the addiction idea. I will heal but I think I will always feel damaged!
It’s a learning experience – you’ve learned that sending him a text makes you feel worse, so you won’t do it again.
Now that you understand what he is like, it is likely that you will never have normal interactions with him even to say hello in passing, because he is not normal and you know it. Consider using the grey rock technique in dealing with him.
He probably doesn’t hate you in a personal way for any reason you may have given him to dislike you. Spaths kind of hate everyone for being real people capable of emotions, they hate people in general for not worshiping them, and they hate people in general because they feel superior and contemptuous. Spaths don’t have normal emotions. Mostly they don’t care enough about an individual person to hate her in a personal way.
I really don’t want him to hate me!
Elsa, I’m late on the bandwagon here and the others have already given you good advice. Don’t be too hard on yourself – there’s not one of us here who hasn’t slipped up and regretted it! Now jump right back on the wagon!!
Go ahead and feel the misery you feel for contacting him, so that you can remember it and maybe it will stop you if you feel like contacting him again.
You really do need to find a way to stop caring what he thinks about you. Go back and read all the basics on psychopathic behavior that you have already read. In the first few months, I carried the book Women Who Love Psychopaths with me everywhere and it is dogeared, full of highlights, underlines and sticky notes. It was before I had discovered this site and found a therapist, and it saved my sanity.
This relationship meant something to you and that is why it hurts – you are hoping for closure, and there will be none, there never is with these people. Keep in the foremost of your mind that this is a man who would destroy you, your marriage, your business, anything that matters to you, without blinking an eye. Think of how much you have to lose, and take it very seriously.
You say you know he won’t reply, but I am afraid for you that he might. I truly hope he doesn’t, because any reply you get, good or bad, will serve to draw you in, if only in your poor troubled mind, and make it worse. I’m sure you have his number memorized, but delete it from your phone NOW. Recommit yourself to no contact.
It is good to have a go to list of things to do when you feel tempted or start to spin. They should be things that make you feel safe, relaxed and in control. A bubble bath, a pedicure, a walk, wash windows, a movie with your husband. We’re here for you!
yeah, I started to feel down yesterday. I was exhausted after a few hard days. plus I heard about what happened with him and my fiends husband and in a way that made me feel like maybe he wasn’t just cross with me. I cant explain why that made me feel better!!! it just did.
I do know his number, and deleted it from my phone last week.
I doubt he hates you. It is more likely that he views you, along with everyone else, like an object, a piece of furniture to be used.
The way he feels about you is always harmful to you no matter what. He does not care about your feelings nor your well being. He will exploit you if he has opportunity. He will not protect you.
Annette
i too believe only now, that he wasn’t involved with the CIA and he used this to make himself look important and/or to use it to “slip away” when he needed to.
yeh sure, one time he was in the military 40 years ago, but he really uses that to his advantage as he hasn’t been in the army since..he no doubt likes to impress, because he has a story for everything.
due to his traumatic childhood, if it is true..could that not have sparked a disorder or some sort and cause him to be this way? he had no parents as a teen and shifted to orphanage to abusive relatives..he found his mom after she killed herself with pills and she sexually abused him…
it could all be made up but if i gave him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it all leads to his behaviour…
believe me, i am not looking for an reason to excuse him for his behaviour, he is what he is..
elsa
i took have recently broke NC…yes it set me back but i can tell you it hasn’t set me back as far as i was a few months ago when this all began..i now know what he is and his capabilities and although NC was broken i took a step backward and almost fell into his lap and believed all he said…i wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt…he has just proven to me he is exactly what i have learned through everyone on this site, that he is a crazy, N, S and/or psychopath…i have that much more knowledge so getting back on track was a bit easier than the first time when i was newly exposed to all of this…
breaking NC happens, just take what you have learned through reading and opinions on here that he is what he is, and yes we want to believe him, but its a pattern of there’s and hopefully it will be easier this time around you will stand back up on your feet with all you’ve learned and give NC another go…it is the only way that the thoughts dissipate slowly and we begin to heal…i am in the same spot as you, just keep asking your questions on here, keep taking the advice given when you feel like you want to crack 🙂
Annette
you mentioned how your ex was not interested in a normal man/woman sexual relationship…
when i was with mine sex too was not always normal and i wonder if this is a common behaviour for them?
during our last year together before he married i knew there was something between the two of them, i just wasn’t exactly sure what because she lived across the world and i believed he wasn’t with her physically…but when we were together physically, he used to beg me during sex to speak badly of her, demoralize her, call her names, as though in reality i really thought this…i didn’t even know her. but he tried to make me believe it was her fault that he had met her and her fault there was a potential future relationship for them…in other words, if i continued to degrade her, (during sex only this took place,) he would decide that she wasn’t a good opportunity and wouldn’t take her up on her advances of being together…once sex was over and i asked him why he does that…he went on to defend her saying she wasn’t a bad person, a sweet girl etc…i never participated in his requests of degrading her and i told him i wouldn’t partake in that and it wasn’t nice…
during our last year,he knew he was marrying this girl, he just strung me along regardless of the things he told me…
besides his sexual behaviour, every other aspect about him is enough to consider him a warped human being..
I think when someone is messed up in an evil way, they extend it to all areas of their lives and all relationships. Often, they are disordered in terms of their employment, too. Everything involving relationships is pathological – relationships with all their family members – children, spouses, parents, siblings, etc. Also, spaths don’t have real friends.
Elsa
May I ask if that evil guy is married also ? He suckered you in to form an emotional relationship with him outside of your marriage. I don’t think it is beneficial if you bring in 3rd parties into a marriage, if it’s physical or emotional. My ex had profiles online looking for affair partners, his motto was “anything goes, prefer married women”. Of course it was all about sex.
You should cut of all contact with this man. Nothing good can come out of this entire situation. Don’t risk your marriage for a liar.
yeah he is married. I was foolish because I believed I was safe because 1. his wife knew of our friendship and said she was fine with it 2. we were out in the open/ public with our friendship, never sneaking off alone – but he did manage to sucker me in!
and you are right, nothing good can come from it. he just did a real good job of boosting my ego and making me feel like I had a friend, when he was really just scamming me (and his wife)
Elsa, honestly, this has been bothering me too. Even in the best of circumstances, when both parties are married the line between friendship and emotional affair is very faint, and both are treading on thin ice.
I second Kaya’s comments- don’t risk your marriage (or anything else) for a liar, nothing good can come out of this situation, and you should cut off all contact.
Elsa…
I speak from experience when I say I was involved in very much the same type of situation as you. The ex spath that I was involved with was a good friend of mine for many years, as was his wife. I considered him nothing more than a good friend, until one day he approached me and said how attracted he was to me. And that started the whole thing.
I was married also, but couldn’t keep my mind off of him. I got sucked right in. I ended up getting a divorce, as did he, but about 1 1/2 years after I did. And then about three years after that, he did to me what he did to his ex wife.
Let me say this to you…it is NOT worth it. Trust me on this. I learned the hard way…and hurt many people along the way.
I am now in a much healthier place, but suffered terribly at the hands of this spath. It took a long time to heal, but I did.
Please let him go. There is nothing good to come out of this. I know..it happened to me.
carolann
Thanks
He has doe. All of that, said I am “a wonderful person”‘ “gorgeous”‘ told me off for putti myself down etc etc . But he has never once said he wanted a relationship. We , he said, were friends. And I really felt we were, his wife, from whom he was estranged but still living with, even said to me that she was glad he had found a friend and that she understood that we got on etc ( he was helping me with a community project I am running so this was a point of shared interests, so I thought)
Over time, she became less comfortable with our friendship I think but I always kept things open and friendly with her.
He used to tell me how unhappy he was, how he wanted to escape to Cambodia to a new life. He was working on separating their assets.
There were massive red flags when I look back.
All of a sudden, from nowhere, they reconciled. However, he woudl say things like “I am on the leash” meaning hi beings had been clipped.
Don’t worry…….. I KNOW he is an absolute horrible, man. I just know I have been absolutely duped and abused by him and I also know that this is his character.
This week my friends partner had a run in with him over some work he was meant to be doing and his wife has been calling my friend apologising on his behalf. It is classic!!! My friend, who knows how he has been with me, was dead cool with his wife, one word answers because she was so mad at what the spath had done and how he had done it.
I don’t want an affair with him. I don’t want to see him. I just wish I had never got to know him in the first place. Ad I wish I woudl never set eyes on him but unfortunately I live in such a small town that I know I will.
I want to treat him as if he is dead. But the pain of anticipating that is awful. I know my friendship with him meant nothing to him but if I admit that then I admit I am weak and stupid and have been used. And that feels awful.
He is such an idiot. I wish he could ahev just sat me down and said ” we have had a great friendship etc etc” but that woudl be too normal wouldn’t it?
He is making me feel like he hates me!
And I also want to know how on earth I am ever going to be able to forgive myself. Because I did betray my husband! I valued the friendship above my husband. I feel violated and dirty. And my husband is unaware of how much I invested emotionally in the friendship.
The spath told me often enough to not like him, but at the same time continued to value me, thank me for being such a good friend, asked me to meet for a drink etc. I think that is what I hate him for. Those double messages.
And now he just discarded me without any interaction. It was as if I was dead overnight. He never communicated anything to me at all. The last normal interaction I had with him was on Xmas Eve. Hi was in the pub with his wife. He wished me a happy Christmas, kissed me On the cheek and said “have a good time. I will be in touch”
I texted him after the holiday and no response and then when I met him on the street and said hi, he flew at me, saying he didn’t want to be friends, didn’t what to know about my life, etc . And walked off in foul temper.
When I tried to communicate with him by text, no response whatsoever.
I look back and the red flags are all over our friendship . I am angry, hurt, etc. But hurt more than anything. And blaming myself!
Else,
“He is making me feel like he hates me!” OK…
1) That is what they do. They have no genuine love to give. They use anger, rage, hatred to control. But, it is not really anger like normal people have.
2) To engage him on the level where he employs the “anger/hatred” card is good. It reveals that he does not respond in a human way. Good to know. The human way would to be concerned or caring.
3) His “anger” is a BADGE OF HONOR for you. It demonstrates that you are not under his control like he wants and expects. It actually shows that you have power still in this unbalanced power struggle. Keep your power. Let him rage.
4) For him to hate you, means that you are past the valuation stage and the mask is off. Good to know. His true colors are in plain view, now.
5) His rage, anger and hatred should help you DISENGAGE, not re-attach. Get out of there as fast as you can.
NOTE: we victims cry when they leave, when they find someone else, when they discard us. BUT, it is a mercy, a Godsend, a deliverance. Not something to cry over — but, a reason to celebrate!!!
WARNING: Do not be sucked in again; this hatred ploy is only designed to make you beg and grovel so that he can trample on you the more. Don’t give him the satisfaction. No matter how it feels or appears or how your heart is screaming…just act cool and detached and so not concerned. Otherwise he will use his “hatred” ploy to HOOK you to further abuse you.
6) Who wants such a sorry &%$#@....... anyway?!! I mean, what a prize!
He used manipulative and deceptive techniques on you. He complimented you seductively – “gorgeous,” etc. which are inappropriate to say to a married woman. It would be more appropriate if he said to your husband, “Buddy, you have a gorgeous wife!” He was grooming you for the possibility of an affair without committing to it.
Saying he is estranged from his wife but still living with her is double speak – he hasn’t left his marriage if it is a bad marriage for whatever reason, and at the same time he is holding himself out as single and available and saying he is ‘estranged’ whatever that means when they are living together. He is available when he is not seeing his ex wife in any way, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good guy to date.
You felt like you were friends because you are a friend – you are loyal and do what friends do. He does not be a friend to anyone.
You did a good thing for yourself when you noticed that he has poor character and says inconsistent things, and looked into it.
In the 19th century psychopathy/sociopathy was called ‘moral insanity.’ Your observation that he is an idiot is accurate.
You are right in recognizing that he is making you feel like he hates you. That is a tactic he is using to keep his cat and mouse game going.
Elsa,
It’s natural for you to grieve the loss of what you were deceived into believing was a real friendship. It was real to you and it is a loss that you rightly grieve.
Your anger at him, and chagrin at yourself are natural. Consider that you didn’t know what you didn’t know, and now that you know what’s going on with this deceiver, you have acted on it.
Everyone’s path to forgiving themselves and finding peace is different. Depending on your circumstances, you may find peace in apologizing and asking forgiveness from your husband, if it won’t cause him hurt to bring it up. It just depends. It is helpful to find a way to forgive yourself. Consider that many of your qualities and traits – kindness, goodness, generosity, trusting, friendly, giving, etc. that the spath preyed on, are really good qualities to have; and in relationships with good people these qualities work very well.
It makes good sense to think of him as dead. My first husband, a good and wonderful man, died. When I learned who my ex psychopath really was and that the fake man he presented himself to me did not exist, it was like a death. Worse in that he abused and rejected me, whereas my first husband gave me enough love to last a lifetime.
Elsa, admitting that your friendship meant nothing to him is not admitting you are weak and stupid.
You were conned. You were groomed. You were manipulated and yes, you were used. That doesn’t equate to you being weak and stupid! In fact, psychopaths target people who are just the opposite of weak and stupid. You took him at face value (like we all did in our own cases) because you knew nothing about the disorder. You didn’t know what was happening to you.
We all felt like you do at one point, it’s natural. I was feeling that way and my therapist changed my world when she told me I didn’t know because he didn’t want me to know – that is the game.
If you can, get the book Women Who Love Psychopaths by Sandra Brown. It will explain so much to you about yourself and how he operates and will be an eye opener and you will find comfort and relief in knowing from an expert that you were not weak nor stupid. Also check out her website the Institute for Relational Harm Reduction. I can’t tell you how much this book helped me to understand and to stop feeling responsible for what happened (which is what they set you up to believe).
elsa
take into fact that he is somewhat of a “wanderer” as well…how can a grown man just be bored and want to go to cambodia? maybe someone unsettled, no direction in life, restless and bored? a real player…how old is he? i am not sure you mentioned this…
i say this because mine just got up and went to armenia, when he could be anywhere in the world to lead a fulfilled life…
i think they are restless bored souls…i also think by heading to these countries they feel they can help the women who are not as fortunate as some, perhaps these women will look up to them and make them feel good about themselves for a short period…maybe its their way of feeling they’ve accomplished something..
mine always went to the poorer countries looking for underprivileged women, perhaps thats why he didn’t stay with me because i can stand on my own two feet and do well for myself, i am not needy…
JaneDoe
He certainly is a wanderer, and easily bored!
He hooked up with this woamn in Cambodia and sent her money every month. His wife didn’t know this.
He used to complain to me that she texted him every day and expected her to call him. I used to tell him that he was communicating to here that he was committing to her by give ing her attention, promising to go back, sending he re money etc.
He used t argue ” no,we are just friends like we are are”
However, he couldn’t see that since this woman didn’t know he was married and he was promising her to return that he was in fact giving her false home.
She cut him dead last summer. I think he was pretty shocked at that but said ” she is probably sick of me promising her I am coming but she doesn’t realise I don’t live in a vacuum”
The truth is he had lied to her and to his wife!
Just an absolute user and he is 63( she was 36)
He told me at one point that she had told him she wanted a baby and he was terrified at that prospect BUT said that if he went there he would consider it if it made her happy!
Oh, his wife would spin if she knew what I knew, including his other child that she knows nothing about!!
Elsa,
Sadly, it is likely he knew exactly what he was doing to the woman in Cambodia. Spaths are pathological liars, and one can’t rely on what he tells you about his interactions with others. There may be some truth in what he says, and there is probably a lot that isn’t true.
Cannh,
Thank you for sharing your experience. You didn’t know what you didn’t know. Sadly, in this day and age people are not really taught the value to ourselves and others of avoiding adultery of all types. It makes it easier for the spaths to exploit and cause harm if their targets refuse to indulge them.
It doesn’t make it impossible – I married my ex psychopath and no sex before hand, although he tempted me knowing I was committed to waiting until marriage. Turned out that, along with being an abuser, sadist, pathological liar, he isn’t heterosexual. He was just using the lure of sexual intimacy to hook me.
Annette…
At the time this happened, my marriage was struggling and the spath knew it. I was an easy target and I fell for it all.
In looking back now and understanding sociopaths, there were so many red flags. I really knew better. I felt horrible at hurting all those individuals involved. But, I’ve said my apologies, I’ve grown and I’ve learned. If nothing else, this certainly has taught me a lot about myself as well. In time, I’ve learned to forgive myself as there is nothing I can do to change the past.
In talking with a wonderful counselor of mine one time, I told him I hope to be able to pay it forward some day by sharing any helpful advice I can. So, I’m hoping some of the things I offer do help in some small way.
And Elsa, if I can offer a thought to you…please don’t be so hard on yourself. Rather than spending time blaming yourself, focus your energies into continuing a happy and healthy relationship with your husband.
Well it has been a week since I have posted anything. NC was broken last Wednesday. He sent me an email saying everything that he always did in the past. And I thought that I was so strong but I caved. I saw him Thursday night and Friday night. It seemed good. We laughed and had a good time. It seemed “normal” again. Then he was supposed to come over last night but called me at the last minute to say that he couldn’t do it anymore. All the same stuff that he says when he discards me. I let him have it. I told him exactly what I thought about him, etc. Then I sent his ex-wife a text. She was surprised to hear from me. She enlightened me again as to what he was doing. Trying to get back with her. Going over to her house. Telling her that he wanted her back, to start dating her again. That I meant nothing to him, that he hadn’t talked to me or seen me. While she and I were texting, she called him and told him what was going on. He emailed me, I HATE YOU! I responded with I don’t care and the email bounced back because he deleted the account right after he sent the email. She and I texted for a while after that. I told her everything. I didn’t hold back. While he was emailing me yesterday, he was also texting her. Telling the both of us lies. Telling me how he loved me and telling her how he only wanted her.
I hate that I was weak and fell into the trap again. I hate that I have put myself through so much hell. I am not sorry for exposing him again.
Day 1 NC again. And I honestly think this will be the last day 1 for me. After I exposed him again, he would be completely insane to try and contact me. I don’t want to ever hear from him again.
Freedom15, I have many cringeworthy times in my years with my ex when I took him back after a mini-discard (I knew nothing about NC then). They often followed the pattern of him saying he couldn’t do it anymore followed by him saying everything right (after he tired of chasing whatever tail he was chasing at the moment, or they got on to him), me taking him back and things seeming “normal” again”until the next time.
He once broke up with me in an email saying he couldn’t do it anymore and for me to not contact him weeks before a long planned and paid for cruise. He said he would pay me back for cruise when he could. I have to admit I flipped out. I finally accepted it, returned all the clothes I had bought only to have have him call me shortly before the time of the cruise so sad, so sorry, that he had been wrong, and still wanted us to be together and go on the cruise. I fell for it. I went back and rebought all the clothes, was excited that we were back together and guess what? The first night on the ship he told me not to assume that this meant that we were back together (a complete turnaround to the sweet words he had used to sucker me back in) and that he was still “undecided”. You can imagine how that made me feel. A few years later, after the final discard, I found out that the real reason he had dumped me was that he wanted to take a woman from his office on the cruise and he thought he had it in the bag. Only when she turned him down did he come back to me with his story of love. I had no idea at the time, but gosh, so humiliating.
When you think about it, no one over the age of 14 writes an email saying “I hate you” and then immediately deletes the email account. I’m just shaking my head.
Hang in there.
Thanks, HM. And you are right, what he did in sending that email was so childish.
He bought me a bracelet for Christmas. I had taken it to have links taken out of it and earrings made out of the links. Got it back yesterday. Spent $144. What a waste of money.
His ex asked me last night if I thought he cheated on me. I told her probably, why wouldn’t he. I do not have proof and I even posed the question to him last night while I was letting him have it. He denied it of course. Just like he denied being with me to his ex-wife this past weekend. How does a person go through life like that. I swear there are days when I have felt like I was going to have a heart attack. How has this not killed him??
Freedom15, I know what you mean, I often thought geesh I’m going to have a stroke while nothing fazed him. They thrive on our pain and chaos, and since they have no real feelings, it means nothing to them, unless they get bored with it”then watch out.
During my years with my ex, I often had diarrhea. I feel my stress in my stomach, and my body was sending me a clear message. He often reprimanded me for having it so often (what was I supposed to do?) and more than once told me that I “felt things too deeply”. Like it was a shortcoming.
I throw up almost every morning. When I was on NC I didn’t do it as much. This first couple of days I did but it stopped. But it started almost immediately after he contacted me again. It is like once I purge, I feel better. This is not good. I go to my therapist next week. I haven’t told her about this situation yet but I have to now.
My perception was that my ex psychopath became calmer when engaging in what I called his torture sports of me. When I was close enough to him, I noticed his heart rate slowed, while mine was racing of course.
Freedom,
Your perception about the heart attack is accurate. Studies show that there is a higher rate of heart attacks during and for years after involvement in an abusive relationship.
H Moon,
Thanks for sharing the details of how your ex spath played you. It is enlightening to me even now a couple of years out. My ex psychopath could be the same person as your ex. Very similar story, too, down to buying and returning the clothes, only it was a family wedding across the country. We booked a charming little cottage, and were making plans. Then I overhear him buying ONE airline ticket. The arguments start and for the next couple of months he pulls all kinds of stuff involving many people, it would take 100 pages to recount. Lies, accusations, discards, etc. I didn’t understand it and was trying to make things right – I thought it was a marriage. When travel time came, I was still planning to go, and then got very very very sick, sicker than I have ever been in my life, and was unable to fly out with him. I could barely walk to the bathroom. I thought it was the flu. Psychopath said he got a milder version of the same bug while he was traveling (without me), but when he got home he was well, and creating mega arguments to keep me away. I got some bad illnesses on and off for a couple of years – he was often gone, but in and out so he had access to my (our) home. My health is better now. I probably will never know for sure in this lifetime whether he poisoned me, and I didn’t think of the possibility at the time, but his motives and behavior, and the circumstances, taken as a whole, point to his desire to have my house and my little bit of financial security to himself. There are a lot of clues in things he said and did beginning when he fake ‘courted’ me that support the possibility of poison or some kind of physical harm.
Annette, I could write 100 pages on just the first trip we took together (and I still can’t believe I stayed with him)! About 6 – 8 months into the relationship, we took a trip to Paris together. Paris! He took the day before we were leaving off work and came to spend the night at my house. I got home from work around 6 and still needed to pack and he wanted to go out for dinner and to a movie. We had to leave for the airport around 4am, and I didn’t want to go out. I ended up going to please him, and was tense the whole time. This gave him a reason to pick a fight with me and he slept on the couch. The next morning I had to wake him up and the first words out of his mouth were I wish I wasn’t going on this trip with you, I don’t want to go anymore but I have to since it’s paid for. I should have thrown him out then. He got dressed and we drove to my friends house who was taking us to the airport. He kept his head down and didn’t even say hello. She kept giving me looks all the way to the airport, I kept shrugging. He gave me the silent treatment until we got to Dallas where we had to change planes. I said to him – look, if you don’t want to go, then buy a ticket and go home now. I’ll just go on my own. He whined about needing his luggage that was on the plane. I told him I’d ship it back to him from Paris. He didn’t go home, he went.
He made the trip a living hell for me. He walked out on me DURING MY BIRTHDAY DINNER in a busy restaurant for no reason that I can figure out to this day. I mean got up, slammed the chair and left me sitting there with everyone staring at me. He made me cry on the street. He refused to go up in the Eiffel Tower. More than one night I left the hotel room and went to a phone booth and called my friend at home and cried. When we got home to my house, he took his suitcase and left without saying goodby.
I figured I had seen the last of him and wasn’t too upset. But by the next weekend he was back, all smiles and full of plans for us. So I overlooked it. Chalked it up to him having no experience traveling. The reality is, he was a sociopath, and he did his best work when he had me far, far away from home. He proved it over and over again. His behavior on that first trip was SOP for him, and it never changed.
One of my favorite fantasies is that I left him in that hotel room in Paris, took a taxi to the airport and never spoke or saw him again.
What you describe was my life with the ex psychopath. I remember, especially in the beginning when I guess I still had some sanity left, after working through the grief being glad and peaceful that he was gone; but he always came back!
I did leave my ex P a couple of times, once I got out of the car and hitch hiked 15 miles home in my late 40’s in a dress in the cold. I hadn’t hitch hiked since I was a teen in the 70’s. It wasn’t a wise decision but worked out ok, and in retrospect I was safer hitch hiking than with him.
No matter what I did, he always turned it around to make me look crazy, and he was successful in making me act crazy often.
He did the deciding if he wants to be married to me a lot. It started a couple months after we ‘married’ when he said he wasn’t sure. I figured he’d married me too soon after his divorce, and did my best to give him space to figure it out. Of course he was just playing games so nothing I could have done would have helped him. He milked that one for years, and then turned it in to “I’m not sure this marriage is valid in God’s sight.” Well I did a Bible study on it taking into account all the circumstances of his divorce as I understood it from his lies, and concluded he should be married to either me or his first ex wife. He didn’t like that Biblical conclusion, I see now that he probably wanted to be free of both of us since we were on to him. He kept bringing it up, so I said take it to the ministry of our church. He wrote up the biggest bunch of BS lying about everything and everyone for the minister who sent it to a regional minister for a decision who promptly ruled that the psychopath was rightfully married to me. What a waste of the ministers’ time since it was all BS.
Shortly after that I discovered porn and another year later I learned he was doing child porn and had cross dressed for decades, and may have been doing it during his fake ‘marriage’ to me. I had already figured out he wasn’t heterosexual in that he was not interested in a normal emotional psychological and physical relationship with an adult woman.
This is the condensed version. I have found that it takes about 3 times longer to explain to a friend what happened than it did to happen. There is so much complicated BS going on when spaths are the puppet masters.
I like your fantasy. For me, if I’d left sooner, I would be forever second guessing myself – did I give it enough chances, maybe it was my fault, what could I have done better/differently? The only advantage in sticking around till it gets really bad is that one will never second guess the decision to leave.
Annette, I forgot to mention that in between, on that trip to Paris, of course he wanted sex and he couldn’t figure out why I was not enthusiastic”after all, I was in Paris with a handsome man! Oooh la la!!
He followed the pattern of finding (inventing) something I did wrong as a smoke screen, blowing up at me, trying to convince me it was all my fault, ruining the day/event/trip/etc. throughout the relationship. In the beginning, when he did a mini-discard, I took it in stride and it didn’t bother me too much and I just thought well, ok then. But the longer I was with him, he had manipulated my thinking so much that I was very emotionally dependent on him and those separations were killers.
I left once – at the same time I was having a very tough time at work, he was very cruel and weird with me and I just snapped. I got in my car and drove a few states away without telling anyone except my mom, who babysat my animals. He flipped out at the loss of control. I stayed away a week, came home determined to be through with him and made the mistake of letting him talk to me (that is why I’m almost a zealot over NC). Within a short time, he had me in even deeper and that is when the ball started rolling on us buying a house together and the rest is history.
I know what you mean about the second guessing if you’d have left sooner. For me, I was always thinking I needed to show him that I wouldn’t run when it wasn’t all rosy (that meant putting up with EVERYTHING) so that he could see I wasn’t like his ex’s (of course he planted that idea). I’m like you – I’ve started telling certain stories to someone and always realize it’s so convoluted there’s no point.
I haven’t seen him for almost 3 1/2 years now, and I’m finally starting to feel more like the woman I was when I met him – someone who is shocked at aberrant behavior instead of accepting it as the norm. The last time I saw him he was so successful in making me act crazy I was actually scaring myself. Nothing he was saying was true, it was all lies and made up, and engineered especially for me to react that way so he had a reason to leave and then tell me he was tired of being abused and fearing for his safety. If I roll my eyes any farther they will pop out of my head.
H Moon,
Your experience is very much like mine, down to the details. Him subtly planting the idea not to be like his ex – I fell for that one.
I also left for another state when he had left our home and didn’t bother to tell him – forwarded the home phone to my cell so he thought I was home when he called. He also flipped over the loss of control when he found out.
I also got sucked in (my minor son’s term for it) over and over again. I’m not sure that I wouldn’t resist even now – it’s like a supernatural hold they have over their targets.