UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Erin
You are so absolutely right. It takes time and what helped me was to focus on myself instead of my ex. He coldly discarded me after 20 plus years marriage and he did not deserve me energy focusing on him or my lost marriage.
Jenna
Think about your emotional wellness. It is a very long, difficult journey but at the end you will look back and you can say “I did it”.
One of the greatest compliments I ever got was when my lawyer said “i am so super proud of you, together we stood up and said no more”. It wasn’t easy as my ex is a cop but victory was ours. And to this day it feels so empowering to me to be a survivor and a gladiator. Jenna, you cannot make him love you because he simply cannot love. Who ever is with him is not lucky or fortunate.
I can so relate Jenna23. I too want justice. Justice for him lying to me, humiliating me, and making fun of me. I want justice so he suffers like i suffer. I dont even know if it is possible. It is hard to accept that some people will continue to do what they do and nothing happens. I hope that the Karma train intersects his highway and I get to see it. It does make it hard to work with him and i did take care of myself and didnt go to the work hockey game last nite. I am going to have to change things for a while until i am strong. NP at work hides from me when I come out to another room, picks up his cell phone and either looks at it or pretends or is texting, then he will walk outside of the building on purpose so I cant follow him. What a jerk!!! This is the stuff that he does and I realized last nite, he never was interested in anything but to get sex off of me, dominate and humiliate me. It was never what it was for me and this is really hard to face. My plan is today if he comes up to me is tell him NP you will no longer lie to me, humiliate me or make fun of me anymore. Even criminals get caught eventually and the truth comes out. And just walk away. This is the plan if I encounter him. So far I am in my office i use and staying put for now. I cant believe that his whole agenda and whole purpose is to degrade me, and make himself feel better about what he gets off of me and to take what ever little life i have of myself and squish it. WTF!!!! I am in so much pain over this. I am in more pain over this than my ex husband. My ex was a passive aggressive and to do what the NP does would be too much work for him. This does really suck.
inthemiddle –
I applaud you for having a plan. In my experience with sociopaths, telling them “you will no longer lie to me, humiliate me or make fun of me anymore” will just be seen as a challenge. Of course he will continue to do those things to you – that is what he does.
A better approach is if he comes up to you tell him “I’m sorry, I am busy and can’t talk to you right now” then proceed to ignore him and continue with whatever you were doing, even if it was staring off into space.
“What? I was busy planning some things for this weekend. Excuse me I need to go write it down before I forget.” “Sorry, I need to go to the bathroom – old lady bladder, you know.” (Hard to argue with that one – they can’t make fun since you acknowledged in the statement that a)You are old and b) you have an embarrassing problem because of it. Making fun of you after that just makes them look mean) “Some of us have actual work to do. Excuse me so I can do mine.”
What really ticks them off is to pick an excuse of the day and use it repeatedly on them, no matter what their tactic is. Since you are in the workplace it needs to be believable though.
The point is, DON’T GIVE HIM ANY AMMUNITION AND DON’T GIVE HIM A CHALLENGE.
NoMoreWool, I love your suggestions! While this might not work in inthemiddle’s work setting, I had a tried and true “escape hatch” for a co-worker I once had that would come to my office and want to chat for hours. I kept a file folder on the corner of my desk at all times, and if I saw that person coming, I picked up the folder, tucked it under my arm, smiled and said I was running to a meeting and walked away with purpose. I might have walked up to the 3rd floor and washed my hands, took a loop around the building, or walked over to my bosses office and stuck my head in and said hello, but it always worked. The trick is to do it with authority and act as if the person is no longer there.
inthemiddle,
Nomorewool is right — used purely professional excuses and interactions. It will remove his power faster than anything else — and humilate him when he has no power over you. Try something removed… and see if it doesn’t make you feel more powerful. (So much so eventually, that you might go back to your office and cry from that feeling of power.)
On “Justice for him lying to me, humiliating me, and making fun of me. I want justice so he suffers like i suffer.”
You already have it. This person has no ability to feel loving committed connections to anyone. He is so lonely inside that he thinks harming others IS a form of connection. You have so much more than he does, or ever will (unless he finds serious levels of help).
The reason the breakup hurts, is the nature of breaking up with a non-loving person. When you part ways with someone you care about, even if it will be a permanent ending, the natural thing that caring people do — is re-connect in that last moment and recognize the caring and value of the relationship. (For instance, it’s why leaving high school, we write cute dumb things to each other in the year book just before leaving at the end of the year.)
In a relationship where it’s ending because one person is irresponsible, uncaring, and lacking in genuine connection — they don’t provide that. The normal person then keeps trying to go back and get that last connection to complete that piece of themselves, so they can move on. When it’s not present, one tends to feel humliated for having cared in the first place, scared at what’s missing that feels abnormal, confused because it’s dizzingly odd to deal with, and disgusted because of the shaming that it does to you. Those are normal reactions to have, but they are “real” and are instead, purely “reactions” to what you are dealing with. Because they are reactions, it’s actually a little harder to figure out that’s what they are…again, because it’s all so odd to deal with (i.e. outside normal).
So to separate and part ways, instead, one has to feel the disdain and dislike they have for that incapible person. And fill in caring by starting up other activities and eventually filling it up from inside themselves. It’s much harder to do and to find that path that’s not our usual way of ending things. You will eventually find this path and start to feel much better.
You seem to be making progress!
C
Inthemiddle
I haven’t been able to respond the past week but am slowly starting to see a little bit of progression by what you are saying. It will always hurt but you went from feeling unbelievably helpless last week to standing up for yourself this week, yay for you!
One thing as a word of advice, inwouldnt tell him what you want to say. He won’t listen, he is what he is and will do what he wants to do. No more wool is right when staring they see it as a challenge.
Back at Xmas when mine contacted after four months NC, I too told him things I did not want. Well, I didn’t hear back until last week AND with the same exact crap he was saying last time. He misses me, he has made a huge mistake, he will do anything to be together and would I take this opportunity to be with him for a week while his wife is away! How unbelievably ridiculous does that sound?? If just doesn’t confirm he has mental issues I don’t know what will. I have actually become a bit bored with his nonsense and have taken a good look
At what he’s become and what he is doing and I’m very turned off. Something just hit me like a ton of bricks..do I want that behavior? Yuck I do not. And to top
It off he contacted me the very next day and took everything back and said his wife is important to him. This is not normal and I m actually getting a kick at how stupid his behavior has become.
You don’t want that kind I man. Take a good look at how if he were with you what would go on behind your back. If he’s doing it to his wife he’s be doing it to you. keep up the therapy and keep reading because one day soon something is going to click and you will see clearly and YES it takes time. Everyone heals at their own pace but you will heal
jenna23 –
Congratulations to you for achieving that distance so you can begin to see your abuser more clearly. I know every inch you are away from him was a hard-won battle.
Jenna23 i know I see him lying to me and working Amanda still and all the time making a fool of me. Like you cant believe that the person you shared yourself with has taken you and smooshed you into the ground. not with one foot but both. I only hope that it all comes back around again. really.
Despite what society says about right and wrong, the sad truth is that the positions of power are disproportionately filled with sociopaths. It makes it hard to stop all but the most blatant of these monsters. Sometimes the best we can do is file police reports and hope someday the mountain of paperwork topples over and crushes him.
I guess I thought to ask him to his face he would tell me the truth. I really dont want to get a procedure done. It is very hard with no contact bcs i work with him everyday in the same station. I am trying and it is very hard. I wont invite him to my apt bcs he is still married and deff not leaving as he clearly discarded me last nite
He was not available to you to begin with. I know that’s painful to you but try to see it as a blessing. A disordered monster does not want you. That is actually a GOOD thing! When I read your words, it reminds me of this drawing I saw of a woman holding onto a mans leg, saying “Please don’t leave as I have already abandoned myself.”
I wish I knew the words so that you would hear, because in spite of all the good support these last months, you still took that path back to him, back to a horrible monster.
Focus on YOU. It bothers me that you seem to have abandoned yourself. His “discard” was not last night… it was some time ago. You’re not doing for yourself, you’re still trying to stand in line, waiting for children to lose the father, so that maybe the monster will chose YOU. Don’t you see it? The most precious outcome for you is what is happening, that a monster is being a monster is not anything new.
Stop abandoning yourself. Take up you as YOUR cause. And once YOU are your own support, then a DECENT man, not a MONSTER, will be attracted to YOU. THAT… will be true victory.
Jenna, You must have confidence that he will ‘get’ what he deserves in life. It just plain works like that….. It might appear that he is getting away with all the crap he wants, but he is not. There will always be another to victimize, but at some point….he will ‘get’ his.
Believe it, and be patient. You won’t always get a front seat as a witness, but stick with what you ‘know’ to be true. You are in a painful place of wanting to get justice. Justice is not yours to serve, and the reality is…..it’s far more rewarding when you don’t dish it out.
If you go ‘warning’ the next victim, you will only look like the crazy lady that he’s portrayed you as and it will give him more power. This is their plan, they set this up with their new victims. And when you speak out, it only offers to confirm to these people that he is correct.
Wait, have self control, patience and diligence in yourself to keep going in a direction that is healthy for YOU. This phase you are in softens in time and when you stop feeding it, will soften and allow yourself to redirect your energies. Believe it, you will get far more satisfaction in the long run.
You are poisoning and paralyzing yourself with these thoughts….. I know….I was in this place for a lot of years.
Protect what is yours, fight for yourself…..but let the universe take care of it’s own.
The absolute BEST revenge is your own success!!!
My heart is with you!!!
XXOO
EB
ErinBrock, I so agree with your comments and approach. You make a key point that there comes a time when we have to stop feeding “it”.
Not everyone here on LF may agree with me, and certainly, many who were in my life at the time wouldn’t agree, but for me, when I redirected my energies away from what happened to me and insisting that “justice be served”, healing began in earnest.
This is NOT turning the other cheek, it is saving oneself, and opening the door to a better life. I agree that the best revenge is your own success and happiness.
Note that I was not assaulted and I am not suggesting that someone who was not follow through with criminal charges.
I am saying that at some point, we need to be honest with ourselves about what we can do to move forward and then have the courage and strength to do it.
Hanaleimoon,
I speak from a mind that has endured spathhell and come out the other side.
I am all about reporting and following through. If you search my screen name, and read my posts from years ago….you will see what a staunch advocate I am for the follow through in the legal system.
I also coined the term ‘Backspath’ here on LF…..but the ‘Backspath’ is not for everyone or every situation with a spath. Sometimes it’s safer to protect yourself from afar.
Finding our ADAMANT is a very important way to empower ourselves. Shifts will occur…..then the snowball effect.
I was able to protect my kids and my assets (what was left) through the legal system, based on the cards I chose to play. My ADAMANT helped me in this process. I had no idea what I was doing, but with immense research and trying to keep a clear mind (mucho difficult most of the time!!) I came out ok.
We all have a story, none less important than the next…I only know that it’s important for us to share with others in order for others to be empowered by our experiences. Hence, empowering ourselves. Again, the snowball effect.
The journey evolves….and we must realize what we have control over and what we do not. What is healthy for us to survive and what we do to keep ourselves ‘stuck’. We all have choices….Choose happiness and it will come. Make great strides to surround ourselves with the postive and give up negative influences….people, situations relationships and such. Clean house!
It’s hard work and i’m glad to see that some are choosing to do the work in order to achieve their own happiness and peace.
The serenity prayer helps….at times that was all I had for myself!
Peace, rebuilding and happiness comes with time and hard work….I and my kids are living proof.
I highly recommend doing it….YOU are SO well worth it!!!
So many lessons…..
Keep swimming!!!
XXOO
EB
Nomorewool
I love that, made me chuckle! “the mountain of paper work! ” lol 😉
Jenna
I agree with ErinB Because I stayed long enough to see the seeds of his actions bloom into full blown karma – like energy attracts like energy so he will get his karma, I guarantee it!
Hanalei
“Like” button pressed!
I totally ‘get’ where you all are at…..It’s not a good feeling, and brings up so many other issues. I can assure you though, there is a life ahead!!! Just keep taking baby steps.
Most of us have the commonalities of departing from a spath….we are/were broke, we feel alone, it’s an exhausting fight, we are raising our kids and trying like hell to protect them and worrying that we can’t….we are not surrounded by people who understand and/are equipped to help or guide us – or hey plain out don’t believe our outlandish stories of our enduring.
Eventually, with the baby steps we take, time passes and the problems don’t seem as monumental as they once were. We become accustomed to the struggle and eventually, we come out of it. Keep the will and confidence that we all can achieve happiness….it’s out there, ‘today’ is not forever….just keep swimming!!!
Sending my mojo and my absolute BEST to you all!!
XXOO
EB
Jenna, Your story is tragic and horrible. I’m sorry you have experienced this. Good luck in your healing. I hope you find your way to peace.
XXOO
EB
Wow! Thanks for the strong words about adamant. I never thought about it that way, but that is the mindset we DO need to heal. I agree that thinking of ourselves as a victim is necessary initially, to recognize what happened to us. But to dwell on being a victim is not healthy because it just perpetuates the pity party. SURVIVOR is a much healthier attitude. Your message about the feelings we all shared during our time in hell was right on…broke…lack of confidence…etc. And isn’t it SAD that there are so many new faces on this website…meaning that abuse never takes a break and there are new people being bamboozled every day! I have been reading THE BETRAYAL BOND that is advertised on this website….very worthwhile reading, friends!
Jenna. In the middle.
Your day of victory will come. It might take years and you might not witness it but believe me it will come. Mine took over 2 years. But now I know that I am in control. This is my closure , my final word. The no contact have me my healing and my victory.
Hanalei
I agree with you. At one point we must focus away from the evil person and let us be the number one priority in life. I did that after I just had enough of his crap. Suddenly I did not care anymore who he was seeing, sleeping with, where he lives and works. None of my concern anymore. I don’t care if he has sex with a different minion every night. It never crossed my thinking anylonger. What mattered was my son and I. My ex will never recognize or validate the pain he caused.
My biggest “revenge” is living my life happy and let him be the pervert he always was and always is .
Love you guys……oh the stories are so heartbreaking! I haven’t been on here in a couple of years, so I’m rusty on navigating this site. Hoping someone can give me some advice. Most of the stories regard romantic relationships, but mine is about my wicked step daughter…about 3years ago I told her to never come back when I was home…..I was livid because she had set me up to be blindsided, she showed up at our house with her new lover (she had wrecked 2 homes with children involved). My husband (her father) knew she was about to come over and decided not to tell me, because he knew it would upset me. Anyway, I got furious and told her not to come back …..well, the new guy didn’t stay with her long. She burned all his belongings, made sex tape with his co workers….so he re married his wife…she has been through several men since then, then her ex took her back (she was alluding to suicide) and I’m sure he was scared for the kids, however he still is madly in love with her!! They moved 800 miles away for his job and that has been a blessing to me….but she has made it clear that she won’t remarry him and still has a boyfriend here that she sees when they come to visit . My issue is, the thought of her coming back makes me physically ill. I always felt betrayed by my husband because he always sides with her against me, only because her wrath is much worse than mine. He is extremely passive by nature. We still love each other and I want us to stay together (34 yr marriage). Last year he was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. He is doing really well though and still working. As a Christian I struggle with trying to tolerate her for his sake, and everything in my guts start screaming out to not open that door to her again….when I know she is getting close by I get a terrifying urge to run!! She has always seen me as an intrusion between her and her father. I know her hatred towards me is very real, she knows I see through her. Her bio Mom (also a sociopath) abandoned her as a baby and I raised her, so I know how she operates. I’ve heard she is going to move back in a few months and I am freakin’. I love my husband so much and don’t know how long I will have him. It would make him so happy for us to get along, but how can I tolerate her knowing what she is? I’m not good at faking my feelings. Deep in my heart I have felt betrayed by him for not coming to my defense but have tried to keep life on an even keel because he is sick and very emotional right now. I want to scream in her face that I hate her and never want to see her again, but can’t because I can’t bear to hurt him…then if he gets worse and I lose him, will I go crazy with guilt because the I couldn’t give him the one thing in life that he’s wanted the most? I cannot imagine trying to fake niceness to someone that I know is a demon inside. Anyone have any advice? I’m going crazy! I tried going to a therapist…..one told me to get a puppy to keep myself busy…..one looked at me like I had 2 heads! Why doesn’t anyone see what we see? I feel like I’m in the middle of a crowded room screaming and no one can hear me!
Creampuff
Welcome back! I’m really not an expert but can relate to what you’re saying but from your husband’s point. My daughter (not a spath) took the rocky road after my spath completely ruined her life, all unbeknownst to me as I thought she had just gone off the rails because she didn’t want to compete for my attention. Anyway, while she was screaming for attention, via letting people down, my family and some of her friends wanted me to side with them when they whinged about her – I couldn’t do it, my loyalty lay with her! It didn’t matter what she’d done (although never as bad as your step daughter, mine just didn’t pay back loans because she was emotionally screwed up and sick all the time) I’d have to say your husband is the same. I don’t like hearing people put my daughter down, I don’t like hearing the disloyalty and as your husband has a good heart, I’m assuming he feels the same way. I don’t condone my daughter’s behavior, and thankfully she has finally got her sh*t together and is making restitution, but I will always be her mother and I will always love and defend her past.
Hope that helps?
Hi Elsa, just checking in with you to see how you are doing, haven’t seen you post recently.
Hi Jan
Thanks!
I have gotten completely lost off with all th comments, everything out of order!!! But I am still here and still reading! 🙂
Not seen HIM since last Tuesday ( so nine days>
I did slip up when I did see him, yet again got into a conversation with him, him again turning it on me, accusing me of not speaking Dan being moody.
He didn’t snag to talk about it etc etc.
Denied ever saying he was my friend.
I walked away and since then there has been a bit of a mind shift!
I don’t need a friend like him!!! I don’t want to see him, have nothing to say to him.
It feels better.
I still dread going up to town, at the risk of bumping into him but at the moment I feel stronger!
Thanks for asking x
Hi Elsa, I know me too, that message should have been placed last but instead it was moved up the list…not sure why it is doing that now.
Glad you are seeing who he truly is = evil, mind shifts are good moments in life!!
When he “denied ever saying he was my friend” this is called gas lighting abuse it is done intentionally to confuse the victim dont play his mind manipulative game. do a search on LF on gas lighting abuse and on the net to learn more.
Please dont dread going into town instead walk with your head high because you know the truth of who he is and how he will manipulate a new victim and how he manipulated past victims. That hon is taking back your POWER.
Yes, I have identified lots of his behaviour as classic sociopath behaviour….. Gas lighting ( denying ever saying things) and getting mad at me for remembering or taking what he said seriously!!!!! Like saying he was my good friend sand then denying it. He said to me last week “the problem is that everything I say you take to heart”…… We, not that the problem is he says things he clearly doesn’t mean!!!!
The other thing I identified was him constantly downplaying my expectations…… Making arrangements, then just saying he had changed his mind, or didn’t fancy doing that anymore! He once did honour a commitment he had made, seemed to have a great time and then said the next day ” well, I was only fulfilling an obligation to you”
Yikes…… How did I put up with it????…….. Oh yeah, because he meant me to!!
And because he gave me enough crumbs to imagine that there was something worth holding on for and if only I could please him the. We could get back on track……. Trauma bonding!!!!
I have had a lot to do with a woman who was in a highly abusive relationship ( domestic violence, both physical and emotional) and until now I never understood why she didn’t juts walk away. But I do now!!! I can understand how all of us who are empathic and caring people can get completely abused . I wish it wasn’t true of me ( or any of us) and I don’t want to change into a person who doesn’t care about others. But as far as he is concerned , I don’t have anything to say to him.
I was in the pub last night and the barman said ” where is your mate?”
It is awful because we have been so much known as good friends that lots of people are asking me how he is, where he etc.
What can I say to that???
I just said “I dont know” last night!!!
But I am ok. In ten days I will be in the sun!!! Can’t wait!!
Elsa, you get it…you have throughly educated yourself on his sociopathic behavior.
BRAVO!!!
As for the barman tell him that your “mate” makes you uncomfortable and there are red flags with his odd behavior that’s it. Dont cover for him because you know he is doing the opposite of what he tells the barman. Dont get into a deep conversation with the barman/or others just give him a few bread crumbs and then if he/they ask more just tell him/them that is all you want to say on the subject.
ps…so happy that you are going to bask in the sunshine in 10 days…lots of fun for you soon on a beautiful island with friends!!
No idea where your reply went Jan, but I read it!
Yes, I feel like i “get it” now too. I am sleeping much better and not thinking about him/ the situation as much.
As I said, it is nine days since I saw him. I have to drive past his house every day and I pray he doesn’t appear. So far he hasn’t.
I think at first I did want to see him, if only to ignore him. But now I just do not want to. I can’t imagine what we could talk to each other about. As far as I am concerned, everything about my life is off limits to him.
Our project will be in the local newspaper this weekend , which makes me feel slightly uncomfortable but I will ride the storm!
This is a great place to come and read but there are so many threads and comments. I don’t feel qualified to comment much but I am an interested observer and learner!!!
Elsa, I love what I’m hearing!! You are definitely moving in the right direction!
I love that when he baited you, denying again that he ever said he was your friend you were able to see it for what it is”gas lighting and a lie!
A few short weeks ago you would have engaged him, trying to explain what your reality was, losing sleep over it and then wanting to contact him and set things straight. I know it still hurts, and you dread seeing him but you’ve really turned a corner where you are in control of your thoughts!
I second Jan’s BRAVO!
Isn’t it amazing how things start to clear up when we are able to give ourselves even a small break from their insanity?
hi elsa
fantastic for you! you have come a long way in such a short time”bravo!
i understand this crap about the gas lighting too”saying things, retracting them, denying what they say”
mine left me about 8 months ago to marry a younger girl and has returned at xmas acting as though he was love bombing me for the first time, and being newly married as well”BUT didn’t stick to his “promises” and contacted me the very next day taking everything back”
it took me a few weeks but i got over it”and low and behold, last week?? he contacted me again, with the exact schtick as he did at xmas”its almost like he is in a fantasy world when he speaks, again promising he wants me, wants me to be with him (this time, he actually wanted me to fly to his country, while his wife is awaiting a visa to be with him and she lives in her country) so we can be together, he is unhappy with her etc”well, guess what happened the next day??? he took it all back once again. he didn’t deny anything he had promised but he said it isn’t fair to me to make these promises when he can’t commit to them at the moment and he realized it after thinking straight”but he is working on us being together..he loves his wife but needs to figure out what that means and just how much he cares for her”BLAH!!! what an idiot”he would love a shoe if it spoke to him…
i don’t know that its gas lighting, but it seems to fit the bill, like your friend has done to you”
honestly, instead of wanting him to contact me because i miss him, i am rather bored with his declarations and retractions and this behaviour has made me NOT want to be with him”thank goodness (in my case) he is like this, because it makes me want him less and less.
my ex is 60, has no direction at the moment with his life, has no money and lives with very little, got himself in a mess and isn’t happy married to a “child” as he calls her, because she is 30 years younger”i was blinded at first when we met with his love bombing but now seeing the “real side’ of him kind of turns my stomach!!
i think you are doing everything right and like HM and Jan7”BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO!!! you deserve that vacation!! enjoy honey xoxo
Elsa
You reminded me of my early twenties and a thought that plagued me for years… you said that you wondered why your friend stayed so long ( I have to rewrite it because this thread is out of sync)
My childhood was violent. My father physically and emotionally abused us all including my mother, he left when I was 15 but in my twenties, I questioned why my mother stayed so long – I guess I know now!
I actually wondered whether I’d wished so hard for the answer that I inadvertently wished the experience…
Janedoe
I understand what you’re saying about thinking it’s not gas lighting. Mine would jump ship everyday, a new day and new action and words that contradict the previous day – very confusing! I think he can’t remember what he said and how he delivered it from day to day, that he can’t keep up with all the BS – he not only lives a lie, he is a lie! I really don’t want to understand that much that I can walk in his shoes but trying to remove the mindf*** is almost impossible 😉
Elsa ,
Jane doe
So proud of you to recognize what he really is, nothing else but evil. It took all of us here months or even years to finally accept the truth and the facts.
Like both of you I wanted to see the good in my ex. I did not wAnt to throw away 20 plus years. Almost a century together. I now know that him discarding me was a blessing. He did not change in 20 years, instead he got more abusive , more secretive and more deceitful. Deep down I knew he resented me, almost hated me. Because I was onto him, but he loved playing with my emotions. I can now remember the satisfied look in his eyes when I sat in the closet crying and begging him not to leave. Where was my self worth ? A grown up woman begging this guy to please love me. Wow. I was in a fog like everyone here.
Today seeing the blue skies, sunshine , birds singing. , some tropical birds walking over my lawn, I am so blessed that I am still here. Stronger and more resilient. And that’s the good that came out of this relationship.and of course my loving son. We will remain strong snd he can write whatever he wants. He will never get a response. At one point I was very sad about my son losing his father. But he was never a father. If he was he would have not done those evil deeds. So we did not lose anything. Instead we gained a new life. 🙂
kaya
i agree you had so much more at risk than i did that is for sure”a marriage, a family, a child!! that is unthinkable and you’re right when you say you were upset at first of your child being without a father”we all do”but not THAT kind of father!! i would have done it no differently than you..the crying, the begging, all of it and then it hits you like a slap in the face, and you awaken, you see clarity and yes, unfortunately our self worth was taken away, but what would anyone do in this case?? nobody knows until they experience this trauma”
ps did you really almost spend a century together?? 😉 you are what now? 140 or 150??? loll
jenna23
you had a very bad experience than i, for example”there was not any physical trauma. you had both physical and psychological. if he thought this was a joke, it isn’t funny. if he does this to all his women, he needs to be put away”let him rot the way he has made you feel. i understand your tears but you NEED to come to terms with this somehow..let him be with other women and let them find out what kind of creep he is”it will give you some perspective once you know he treats all women the same”but he should be stopped for the physical abuse and reported”that shouldn’t be put upon any woman”
you have seen a therapist, if i recall?
Jenna (and Joyce)
Report Report Report!
I’m in Australia, as some already know, and last night on the news there was a group of very powerful women pushing to have a register for violent offenders so women can check to see if they are with someone that has a history of abuse towards women. This news report said that it is working well in the US so most of you already have access to this.
I smiled when one lady mentioned that even if your instincts are telling you that something doesn’t add up, you’ll have access to this information – if men hit/hurt women in any way and the police get involved then it is going on the register – yippee!
I’m not sure you all have this power or not, but over here the police have the power to charge an offender regardless of whether the victim wants to press charges or not – the police took this power away from the victims a few years ago when the courts finally got it through their thick heads that intimidation played a huge part in allowing offenders off scot free…
Jenna
I don’t know when it happened, I can’t put my mind on the situation that switched it for me but one day it did and one day it will for you!
I now see a creepy psycho stalker whenever he crosses my mind. Each time he turns up in my peripheral is just confirming everything the girls have taught me here. I no longer have good memories nor do I miss the illusion.
Im off for a Bush walk now then I’ll hit the pool for laps before work – I have my life back and you will to one day soon xoxo
undertheradar
yep exactly how it happened”it just clicked in”i will still ask “what if and why” but i get my answers much quicker now because i see what i fool he is!!!
i am so happy for you and i both that we are approaching this
keep up the exercise its supposed to release endorphins or something like that!!! and that is supposed to make you stress free!! (i think)
hah you can tell i don’t know much about exercise!!! you go girl!!!!
Janedoe
I’m doing “miss muddy” which is a spinoff of “tough mudder” tomorrow morning, not sure you have that where you’re from? It’s a 5 kilometer obstacle course in the mud and I’m really looking forward to it 🙂
That should keep the endorphins pumping! My life is back to action and adventure which is something I missed while I was isolated with the spath – yippee!
Jenna
I know what you mean. The crying and guilty feelings. I too felt guilty to stay so long, put my son through this mess. But I was gaslighted, I did not any different. Only after I remived myself and stayed no contact , then I was able to accept it was all wrong. I cried for 3 months also. Day and night.
I have not cried in about 20 months now. He is not worth one year of me. He never cared about my pain and he will never care. And that’s a fact. He can lie and cheat , be an abuser , be a pervert as much as he wants to now. But I am not at the receiving end anymore.
jenna
thats great! you are starting to see a bit of light!!
keep taking baby steps it will become clearer and clearer and the light will become brighter and brighter!!!
you are starting to see him for what he is
kaya48 and jenna23, inthemiddleofheartache
Am validating how perspectives change by going NC. Kaya48 shows the change in our emotional state.
I noticed the same. I have been NC. By going NC, I stopped being traumatized over and over, and without the constant trauma, I have found space to THINK and gain perspective. I see him for who/what he is, which was hard to do when I was dealing with incredibly painful trauma after trauma. I was able to stop crying, and to settle my soul, and accept that he is as bad as he is.
NC helped me to accept the truth, that “it was all wrong” just as kaya48 says in such a clear way.
Sometimes I feel sad that he wasn’t real because it reveals how much I wanted the picket fence promise, but I don’t miss who he turned out to be.
In fact, who he really is… totally disgusts me, I am totally repulsed by him and am so ashamed that I let that piece of disgusting filth into my most precious and vulnerable places.
This is how NC is so very valuable, and as Kaya48 shares, “no more crying”… a huge change from a life where I didn’t think I could ever stop crying.
NWHSOM
I wish I’d listened sooner because the NC has been liberating. I’m only 2 weeks, although I’ve seen him because he’s a creepy psycho stalker, but no contact, no response, no engage on my part has freed my mind to think other thoughts. I’m finding that I’m thinking less and less about him and more about what adventure I’m going to experience next – keep preaching because we all get the message eventually 😉
undertheradar
this thread is weird i can’t click on reply so i have to start a new comment”sorry about that
yeh the gas lighting bit is strange and i don’t know what to call it..
mine goes back on each and every promise he makes and when i had confronted him, he would act like i should know better than to suggest it!! when it wasn’t even me who suggested it to begin with!!! talk about a mind f**k
for example when he contacted me at xmas and last week he said he is so sorry that we haven’t been able to remain in continual contact like we always had..he is going to do everything in his power to make it happen. he doesn’t care if she finds out because she is nothing to him”
thankfully this last week i didn’t fall for it but back at xmas being the first time he’d contacted me since my NC i was spinning from his bombing!! so i contacted him after a week or so and asked “why aren’t we communicating more like you promised, you told me you were disgusted being married to her and we need to rekindle what we had”” his response was something along the lines of “are you serious? i don’t have time to contact you, she is around me all the time and i don’t want to risk it”
whoa”thats all i needed to hear and i got turned off and when he approached last week”once again with the promises, i told him “no way, you know what you are? an S or N”
he denied it saying if he were he wouldn’t be contacting me and wanting me back and i don’t even know the meaning of the word”.
i don’t even give him the satisfaction of proving i do”too long and mentally exhausting to play that game anymore
janedoe
You do know they never admit to being sociopaths or narcissists, right? They are the ultimate spindoctors. Good grief… IF he was a scammer, then he’d tell you? Really?
I am not surprised she is “around him all the time”. She has likely realized he is ALL lies and is gathering proof. Gee, you can bail him out from being caught scamming her. What a bargain! Yep. Rekindle what he gave you… ummm, you mean like lies, unfaithfulness, insecurity, blame, abandonment? What… he means until he finds someone else, AGAIN!?!
Geesh. Like he thinks you didn’t learn what kind of low life pond sucking, USER that he is? So he thinks you are incapable of understanding what “USER” or FRAUD means?
NWHSOM
yep he must think i am very stupid…
funniest thing of all when he contacted me last week…he said “my email must not work i don’t have any news from you”
i said “thats right you don’t, because i haven’t written you!”
no i didn’t know 100% they don’t admit to being and N or S..i just assumed they would try to protect themselves, but i didn’t know that was a classic trait??
he asked me “why I’m not working with him on this, why am i protecting HER and defending her, am i not being supportive of him while he was so excited to get back with me!!!
i just can’t believe even a sociopath is stupid enough to say this sh**!!
but the classic part of it all is the next day retracting it all, says he loves me BUT he loves her too….lololol
i seriously am laughing when i see this coming from an “adult” who claims to have a GPA of 4.0…i can see right through him now…believe me, if and when i hear from him, and i know i will, i can’t wait to get a good laugh out of it because thats how unbelievably undeniably stupid he is…
you made a good point, i wonder if she is on to him and thats why he is resurfacing?? hmmm
sneaky f**cker…smart woman…
in the meantime, he is back at home and she is across the world waiting for a visa to leave her country, so naturally he is lonely and wants me to visit…i told him, sorry but, i will not invest a dime into coming to see you so that you can turn around and get your life back on track once she gets there…
janedoe
I did notice that he blamed you for not helping him to lovefraud her. See? Nothing is HIS fault. (that’s a classic pity play.) Yet he thinks you want that for your future?
My ex would also get angry at me for not believing his lies. That’s because he wanted me to believe and anything less than complete compliance to HIS scam was perceived by him as betrayal.
NWHSOM
Yes somehow it’s my fault he married her, screwed around behind my back, f**ked up his life…it’s all me who did that
But what is the reason for taking everything back as though he never approached me to begin with?
janedoe
Whatever reason it was (just fill in the blank), it was your fault!
Ding! Ding! Ding!
NotWhatHeSaidOfMe has the RIGHT ANSWER !!!
(no bonus points, sorry, but it was just a little bit too easy, ha ha.)
janedoe
What country are you in? Not the United States?
Janedoe
I’m getting a little clarity with this lie then deny disorder with a book I’m currently reading which explains how our creation part of the brain is stimulated by the compassion/empathy part. I first caught a glimpse of the concept while watching an episode of “Perception.” The main character explained that sociopaths don’t have any stimulation in the compassion center of the brain, they’d done tests and they don’t light up like a normal person would under the same stimuli – armed with this information, I can see why they jump ship so much, actions speak louder than words and actions are a feeling response. If they can’t relate on an emotional level to what they are saying then they’ve got no avenue of remembering so they just react to each situation as if it’s new to them – very childlike…