UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Under the radar
Glad that my experience helped me to give advice to you. Like yours my ex ruined every holiday of special day. Usually if ended up my son and I doing something fun . Their mind and thoughts are occupied by porn and sex 24/7.
Like you, my ex totally underestimated me. I kind of played helped after he left but I was already talking to lawyers. He just didn’t know about. And for once he was not able to manipulate and control me. I took all my poet back. For good.
Kaya
Everyone’s experience has helped me but I can relate more to your story because mine was a cop that had sex at work every shift. I’m shaking my head at the memory of those times I was confused about us because he was saying one thing and doing another. He would tell me how much he loved me and how important I was to him while we seriously lacked any intimacy in our marriage. Finding out that he was solely focused on getting it elsewhere crushed my soul!
No more wool, Jane doe
Same with my ex. The list making was a must. He could not function without it. He even brought a list to court showing how he devided assets. Ha , like it was up to him . I hated his lists, grocery drama, everything about him. Come to think I actually hated sex with him to. Especially towards the end, before the discard I had the feeling something was off. Of course because he was getting the sex every night during his shifts with the co worker. It felt just wierd.
Come to think I miss absolutely nothing about this man. And I will never him give the opportunity again to abuse me. If I let him in my life for just a few minutes I know he would have complete control over me again. Like the 20 years I was married to him.
I find myself thinking much less of him and not caring who he is dating or where he lives. That’s a good sign. My heart is finally whole again. It was broken but the pieces he left me with became one again. And its auch better life now without me having to play detective 24/7 and then ending up apologizing for finding evidence. How wrong was that ? Now I can laugh about his ridiculous cover ups. He was a cop and should have known much better. I was a smarter detective than he is a cop.
The compulsive list-making may be the downfall. My attorney has copies of the lists I found and the script of “what really happened” that the sociopath hasn’t deviated from despite the physical evidence to the contrary. Like janedoe finding the identical emails, it is amazing how the sociopath can keep on repeating the same lies over and over like some sort of demented parrot.
kaya
i think we all become smarter to their ways, because the good they show us (or me anyway) is almost too good, that you become suspicious..and the questions we ask them when we discover something become too frequent that being smart women, we put two and two together”but they really are too dumb to think we are not smart enough to figure it out”especially at our ages.. i mean, don’t they question the fact that we are asking them things that pertain to their infidelity and think “jeez she is on to me?” i certainly would be paranoid if the tables were turned and suddenly i was being questioned over and over..
do you think you are ready to meet someone new or no??
Kaya
Oh that’s interesting! My s never wrote anything down unless he’d Googled how to do it, birthday cards, speeches etc
I remember trying to sort out our issues by writing letters to each other because trying to discuss them was fruitless and always turned into a war but he told me that we couldn’t solve our issues via lettersbecause he didn’t want to create a paper trail. Yet another red flag I ignored!
Same here. Talking to the sociopath was always confusing because of the circular logic and wordsalads tossed at me. I prefer communicating in writing but the sociopath was also paranoid about a paper trail. It makes you wonder if they are just a bunch of clones running around creating havoc.
Nomorewool
Aliens I think.
No more wool
The lies. You are so right. Always the same, same lies , just twisted a little and formed into covering up some new affairs. Once my ex was “going fishing at the ocean”. He never returned till 2 am. His shirt smelled so much like perfume. His answer was “don’t be ridiculous , that’s how the ocean smells “. And I believed it. I think they have us so manipulated that we believe anything. That is until I removedcmysrlf from the craziness of his daily life. Once I was over the initial discard shock and anger , those lies all of a sudden appeared as true deceit. I knew exactly there was no truth whatsoever. Now I can laugh about it. But the only way I got here was to initiate and remain no contact. he would feed me more lies. No thanks. He can lie to his minions now He can use one if his lists to keep the minions organized. Glad I am not a part of this drama anymore. Like I said I used to hate the co worker but I am glad she crossed his path. I am grateful I was discarded. I would have never had the guys to file for divorce otherwise. He did and still underestimates me. He starts playing his games, my attorney sets him straight. He is absolutely defeated and he is running out of weapons.
The good-looking sociopaths have it hard when they get old and lose their looks – they have to come up with a whole new bag of tricks to keep their victims hooked, or attempt to fall back on their old victims and hope the brainwashing still holds.
The sociopath once told me if you pick a story and stick with it no matter what, eventually everyone will believe you. Well, when both sides use that tactic, who is more believable? The one with the wild and crazy version of events and no proof or the one with the wild and crazy version of events (because let’s face it, what they do is wild and crazy) and proof?
As sociopaths get older, they sometimes try to reconnect with their children. They begin to sense their inevitable loss of ability to charm others and try to set up a safety-net to rely on in their old age.
If their charm kept money rolling in, they’re particularly concerned about how financial supports will continue when their looks are gone and their health declines.
Re-grooming their kids is a possible solution to the problem.
What is really sad is when the sociopath tries to groom the children to be willing participants in the get-rich-quick schemes and the financial draining of victims, especially if the children are still young and cute.
kaya
my god that is funny!! the ocean smells like perfume”.wow!!!
i too would have believed it, but held that in the back of my mind and use it one day to retaliate”holy moly”the ocean smells like perfume”.lol
The best retaliation would have been to come home smelling like aftershave and claim that the supermarket smells like that. Of course, the satisfaction would not be worth the punishment…
Kaya, you are so right that they have us so manipulated that we will believe anything. We were brainwashed, and this is why we stayed, even when we knew better. In my case, this is why I just glossed over so many things (finding the expensive dinner receipt, or the lifetime supply of condoms that he wasn’t using with me) and acted like they didn’t even happen. My therapist said I had numbed myself in order to survive.
No contact is the only way to break the hold they have/had on us.
My ex underestimated me too – he thought that final move would destroy me. It set me back, but it also set me free. He FAILED.
nomorewool
ah yes the toenail clipper”sounds like a stupid scenario from seinfeld”thats how comedic it really is..
the drama with him would also affect his time management”for instance”he would say for at least two weeks, he had to go do his laundry piling up”finally he would get around to it and i wouldn’t hear from him for 2 days”when i would question his whereabouts, in a nice way, mind you, there was ALWAYS a story to the laundry”most men would just throw their laundry in the machine and then the dryer”but no, he had to take 2 days, and then because that took so long, it took him away from his other important errands like picking up a loaf of bread and milk and then that would lead to the next thing”ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS drama in this idiots life that took place”although when i was with him, i didn’t see that procrastination behaviour in him nearly as bad as when he was back home”i have never met anyone so poorly “unorganized” in my life”BULLSH**!!!! it was all to throw me off course”what an ass that he would think i was the dummy
yes he was unorganized and slow to a degree but he played on that quality to get his scheming and planning with other women done…
And did he expect you to solve his problems for him so that they were always your fault for not solving them? Or better yet, it was your fault for not anticipating that something would be a problem at some point in the future and you did nothing to prevent it from happening in the first place?
NoMoreWool
yes of course it was my fault that something would happen in the future…
he got married a few short weeks after we had a vacation together and that is my fault he did that he said, because i knew she had a thing for him and i should have spoken crueler about her and prevented her from “stealing my man” he said…mm hmm that was my fault…
i think thats a fantasy of his…a woman fighting for him because she didn’t even know me or that i existed, so how was i fighting for him?
I think the lack of empathy sometimes translates into a lack of understanding that not everyone knows what he knows. There is a term for it in child development where the young child thinks everyone perceives what he does, but I forget the term.
I experienced many times where the sociopath expected me to know something I could have no possible way of knowing because I had not been there. No matter, it was still my fault because I should be aware of everything the sociopath is aware of (unless that was inconvenient).
Nomorewool
I remember being that child! Lol I also remember when I discovered that we are all different 😉
Jane doe
Sorry for the late answer. No, I am not in a new relationship not looking for someone. I am still in my “transitioning period” into my new life. I truly enjoy being “single”. What a difference from my married life. I lost myself in those 20 years. I was a puppet on strings and now strings are gone and it feels amazing. What I enjoy the most is no one is lying to me. Constantly questioning myself made me crazy. To be honest I would have not survived this crazy making much longer. At the end I was crying on a daily base. And that’s not a marriage , that is abuse.
Hanalei
I like what you say. “It set you back, but he failed “. I think the exact same. He failed at all of his attempts to destroy me. I know what you mean. I found his stash of Viagra that it was not using with me. But I still believed his lies, he picked those up to make me mad. My therapist said “the only reason he picked those up to use them “. And not with you honey “.
And I was still in denial.
Yes, all this set me back. I did not plan to lose my house and so much I world for. But hd is the one who lost everything. His house, his family, his money , his son. I have everything , my life and my child and my sanity, my joy and happiness. Compared to his minions , he has nothing. But I think that is what he truly wants. Freedom to be a pervert without having to hide it. And maybe one of the minions supports his 24/7 sex and porn addiction. Who knows? Just glad I am out of the game now.
http://www.luke173ministries.org/629759
This above is a very good advice on no contact.
Under the radar
How scary is that? He came to your house ? Are you divorced already ? That’s so disrespectful after what they put us through and then they act like they still own us. Like no worry in the world. I am just in awe sometimes what nerve my ex possesses to send me these stupid notes withy alimony. After all he pig me through hd honestly thinks he has a right to get a response out if me. I spent almost 15k $ fof this divorce and in no way will I undo all the hard work my attorney and myself dedicated to this case.
My ex comes up with the craziest threats. If I don’t respond he will not pay for s computer antivirus program anylonger. Who cares ? If I don’t respond he will “throw ” me of his health insurance. I already havd my own since the day the divorce was final. I don’t understand. He threw his family in the trash and now is concerned about us ? Lies again , all lies. Only now will I not feed him his ego kibbles. The hot sex with the co worker must not make him that happy I guess. staying no contact was, is and always will be THE END. I have already wasted my entire life trying everything possible to have a nice, peaceful relationship/marriage with him. NOTHING worked. There is NOTHING left to try . It’s OVER. Time to protect myself and my loved ones from evil people who would do is harm . It’s all over. I would not even attend his funeral.
” another disciple said to Jesus “Lord, first let me go and bury my father ” . But Jesus told him “follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead .”
Matthew 8:21-22
Kaya
I agree! I didn’t go through all the work, time and expense of changing my number just to allow the s back into my life 😉
I’ve read every word that has been posted here and the one thing that’s been drummed into me is no contact. Little did I know that it would also allow me to get some clarity with my thoughts, I’m not as torn or confused as I was when we were still communicating. I now recognize that he makes me feel bad whenever he opens his mouth and now I feel good most of the day and everyday 🙂
For me the greatest result of NC is not having to walk on eggshells all the time and try to anticipate and avert what the sociopath’s next blowup will be. I don’t know if I feel “good” yet, but just the absence of the constant stress is so much better than my life was before that I know I will never go back.
Nomorewool
Good for you! New life and new beginnings! But this time you’ve got a fresh start with your eyes wide open so you’ll know immediately when the joy is missing 😉
undertheradar
you speak exactly my words….i worked very hard on getting him out of my head and when he is out of my head, i enjoy little things and suddenly will say “oh yeh, i forgot about him” and continue with my day…it is really an exhilarating feeling….NC is the best thing ever invented!!!
Janedoe
I have those same moments when I realize I spent most of my day thinking other thoughts – it is so good isn’t it?
Under the radar
Exactly. Whenever he opens his mouth. So true, whatever my ex spoke it was meant to put me down, to make me feel worthless and to take my self esteem away . He did not have any humor, except when other people’s feelings got hurt he was able to laugh. Even a “nice” day at the beach turned into drama bi was usually in tears a few hours into the day. How often did I just walk on the beach, sat somewhere in tears , wishing he was out of my life. Even my sobs high school graduation he turned into drama. After I bought a new outfit I asked him if it looked nice. His answer was “well, when I met you , you werent as fat and old “. Sure that was 19 years earlier. Now I ubderstabd why he constantly demonized me, it was because I was on his discard path. While I once was appealing to him, now I was a monster he had put in the trash. Looking back I should have served him divorce papers the day I found his affairs. I should have never married him. That’s in the past. What matters is that I did divorce him and that I cut off all ties with him. No mutual friends , I cut of all contact with his family. They believed his claim I am mentally ill so no room for them in my life.
Like you said slowly my clarity was returning and now I can see how wrong this entire marriage was. It was a one sided love. Love that he never returned. It was all about his sexual needs nothing else. And no he won’t change. The minion was probably replaced by a sexier one already. But he is getting older , half of his income is going to me. Looks are not for ever. So there is not much he has going for him.
Kaya, my ex was very complimentary to me up to a point – then he made comments like your ex did. When I moved to our new house and hadn’t seen him for a month or so, I finished up losing 20 pounds and was feeling so good about myself and our new life (little did I know it was about to blow up). When he came out, I proudly told him and he said “you might have lost 20 pounds but your belly is bigger than it ever was”. This hurt me so much, but what did I say? “Uh, I guess that’s because my waist is so much smaller now” he immediately flexed his arms and asked for praise on his muscles. Of course I was kind to him.
This peaceful Sunday morning in a quiet house with nice plans for the day, I realized that for years with him, Sunday mornings were the worst time of the week. Probably 80% of the time, he would be unhappy with something – I didn’t initiate sex at the right time or enthusiastically enough, I fell asleep too early the night before, breakfast wasn’t right somehow, I went down to the beach for a morning walk and left the breakfast dishes (with his approval and he never wanted to go) and came home to him slamming dishes around and angry for me leaving the kitchen in a mess, maybe it was just that I didn’t read his mind, and him getting into a snit and going on and on, leaving me a snotty mess of tears and in the bathroom with diarrhea. On the odd Sunday morning that we were at my house, he’d pick a fight and make me cry so he’d have a reason to get in his truck and drive away, leaving me with a ruined day, while it was all probably a setup, and he had other plans for his day. He always wanted me at his house, and it made me so happy when once in awhile he’d come to mine, and now I see it for what it was – he had a “date” later on Sunday and he couldn’t do that if I was at his house, so he’d make a big deal about coming to my house only to blow up in the morning so he could have me out of the way for the day. Of course he’d call me later in the evening, wanting to know if I was ready to be a “good girl”, implying that something I had done had caused him to leave. I NEVER felt right about all these times, and I always was scratching my head and saying to myself “but I didn’t do anything wrong”.
Kaya, you said it, how wrong this entire relationship was, and it was all about his sexual needs.
No more Sunday morning diarrhea. No more crying.
Hanalei
We won in the end! 😉
I second undertheradar. It is so sad that “Sunday morning diarrhea” was even a thing for you.
HanaleiMoon
See? Even though I am divorced, I am still discovering WHY? I could never understand why we got into mindboggling disagreements. I’d keep trying to make peace and he’d find something more to pick at me, criticize me, and blame me… then have to leave because I was so “crazy”. Yet, we had plans for a lovely outing that I knew he’d enjoy. I have a photo of him in a park, and you can’t tell from the photo, but I practically kidnapped him for our outing and he just put the car seat down, turned his back to me, and slept/ignored me for the four hour drive to our beautiful weekend getaway. Then when I stopped for a driving break, he sat up and it was as if NOTHING awful had happened.
Diarrhea is a perfect word to describe his bizarre actions.
No more of that kind of crying for me.
In fact, I actually made a list of things I would not miss anymore. Being ridiculed, diminished, degraded, walked out on, no explanations…. it was a LONG list that I would not miss.
Going on outings with no crying and picking on me was near the top of the list.
HanaleiMoon, I can so relate to what is being said to you. I am sorry to jump in on the comments but i need to reach out. I have been seeing the obgyn bcs i have some issues. so far no communicable diseases but some irregarities as I have one time before with my daughters dad when I caught him cheating. So i met with my NP to ask him face to face if he canoodled with amanda. He looked at me in eyes with a cold stare and said no. The gyn wants to do a d/c and i dont want to do that. I would rather have the other route, pills antibiotics. Well, the other news he is deff staying with the wife and does not want anything with me anymore. Said that he needs to stay for his kids and work things out. He said this last time too. He also said if I wanted him to go to sportmans club in the summer he would go with me. He said that he doesnt have any feelings for me and that he will not be doing anything with anyone. I asked him if he was being watched bcs he was acting funny. He said no and that when he asked to see me when he came back from his test next week he said that he changed his mind and that he was not doing anything. I said i hope you get caught if you are for lying to me. He doesnt care and when he looked at me his eyes were black like death. He said that i will see him at work isnt that enough. Like really. so now he totally discarded me, im figuring he lying to me too and have to get a procedure done that he put me in. Oh, and the best part, he said he needed to leave to tuck in his 2 year old. He didnt even ask me to let him know abt the doctors. He said his wife just went to the gyn and she was fine…I am in shock I am. I cant believe what he has said to me and that he said he would go out in the summer. After getting the apartment I asked him if he would come over he said no unless i was having a party. Now i dont want him to come over now bcs he is with the wife for good. This sucks really sucks.
HanaleiMoon, I can so relate to what is being said to you. I am sorry to jump in on the comments but i need to reach out. I have been seeing the obgyn bcs i have some issues. so far no communicable diseases but some irregarities as I have one time before with my daughters dad when I caught him cheating. So i met with my NP to ask him face to face if he canoodled with amanda. He looked at me in eyes with a cold stare and said no. The gyn wants to do a d/c and i dont want to do that. I would rather have the other route, pills antibiotics. Well, the other news he is deff staying with the wife and does not want anything with me anymore. Said that he needs to stay for his kids and work things out. He said this last time too. He also said if I wanted him to go to sportmans club in the summer he would go with me. He said that he doesnt have any feelings for me and that he will not be doing anything with anyone. I asked him if he was being watched bcs he was acting funny. He said no and that when he asked to see me when he came back from his test next week he said that he changed his mind and that he was not doing anything. I said i hope you get caught if you are for lying to me. He doesnt care and when he looked at me his eyes were black like death. He said that i will see him at work isnt that enough. Like really. so now he totally discarded me, im figuring he lying to me too and have to get a procedure done that he put me in. Oh, and the best part, he said he needed to leave to tuck in his 2 year old. He didnt even ask me to let him know abt the doctors. He said his wife just went to the gyn and she was fine”I am in shock I am. I cant believe what he has said to me and that he said he would go out in the summer. After getting the apartment I asked him if he would come over he said no unless i was having a party. Now i dont want him to come over now bcs he is with the wife for good. This sucks really sucks.
I wondered where you were lately. I really hoped you were not breaking the No Contact.
NO CONTACT is very important. Even finding out he gave you an STD is not a reason to break the NC because nothing good can come of it.
A sociopath will not care if he is spreading disease. If you contact him to tell you he gave you an STD then he will turn it around on you and say YOU gave HIM the STD. It will be ammunition in a smear campaign. If you contact his other sex partners to warn them of the STD he will turn it around and say you were the one responsible for getting them infected as well. Who knows where the infection started. You bring it up and you are the one he will pin it on.
I cannot emphasize enough that you need to KEEP NO CONTACT!
DO NOT invite him to your apartment, even if you have a party. Letting him into your personal living space is just giving him a chance to set you up for something.
DON’T TELL HIM ANYTHING. DON’T ASK HIM ANYTHING. MAINTAIN NO CONTACT.
Otherwise you are in for a lot more hurt and will never be able to start healing.
Inthemiddle
I’m confused? Why would you invite him to your place? He has told you, point blank, that he’s with his wife and doesn’t have any feelings for you yet you still set yourself up for disappointment – why? If my ex told me he doesn’t want me and feels nothing then I wouldn’t embarrass myself by looking like I need him or worse, almost begging to get him back – he just won that round!
I’m sorry if this is not what you want to hear or not want you wanted to happen with your encounter but jez woman, have some courage to try and give yourself some pride in all this and act like you’re better than him til you actually feel better than him, fake it till you make it!
He gave you an STD because you were not in a triangle you were surfing the sex scene with dozens of women, you just didn’t know that there were more than the 3 of you. I’m with nomorewool – NO CONTACT!
Sorry if this is harsh but I do mean well when I say this…
kaya
i can’t say mine would put me down and thats why i sometimes have a hard time differentiating between what he actually is…he was always very very nice and fun to be with and we enjoyed each other very much…with me (unlike yourself and many others here) i had a problem with his promises and his cheating and lying and sneakiness… he was a master at manipulation and would tell me things to cover up something else…he has done crap behind my back that is unforgivable. yes you did have that as well of course but yours was very degrading verbally and thats even worse i think than me…perhaps the reason mine was so nice is its his way to cover his verbal cruelty…i don’t know. after hearing others stories i always wondered why he didn’t do what your ex did to you or anyone else…never put me down or insulted me…as a matter of fact he always had me on a pedestal…maybe mine was too nice or fake…?? a major red flag..
JaneDoe
You are in a similar trap that I was. It would have been easier if my ex lost his temper or hit me. I didn’t have anything concrete, esp in the beginning. But I had this intuition, that things didn’t make sense. He’d speak but words could have more than one meaning.
I found out in the end, the things he said to OTHERS. That’s why they were so hateful to me. And of course, in the end, he was interrupted in my murder! But I SWEAR I did not think he would ever do that. Just as I SWEAR, I thought he was the one guy who would never screw another woman, he hated touching a woman’s parts, my lady parts grossed him out. But I was LIED to, mislead, manipulated, implied other… SCAMMED, defrauded. That was his core personality. That’s HOW he is.
You ex has smeared you to OTHERS. He has smeared his WIFE to you. He speaks in innuendo, he implies and you can take it any way you want. In fact, he INTENDS for you to take it the way he does NOT mean it. That’s called scapegoating.
My ex would tell me later… “I TOLD you” but the WAY he told me led me to believe something else. That’s what I mean by innuendo and implication.
Some sociopaths are OVERT, in our face. And some, like my ex, take PRIDE in being COVERT, sneaky, deceitful, master manipulators. My ex verbal cruelty was done behind my back, in conversations with others. The damage was enormous and totally mindfarking because it was like smoke, could not put my finger on it and yet, the after effects were as terrible nightmares. And when you LIVE with someone 24/7 for years, you get to know how they scam others, you see it for yourself… and realize HOW they are doing it to you.
I used to accuse him of holding me close and smiling at my face s I couldn’t see while he was pissing on my feet.
That’s why I don’t think an overt abuser is worse… it’s ALL horrid horrid degrading of another human being, using another as if they are not human, to be used as a thing.
Lastly, Jane. What my ex did to my daughter. His kindly gentle speaking to her, full of vile HORRIBLE LIES that changed how she thinks of herself, and makes her live a type of paranoid life now, all done because he was SO kindly when he put that poison into her head. He deserves to burn in hell for the mindfark he did to an innocent naïve trusting brain…
NWHSOM
I also remember thinking it would be better if he just hut me. Their twisted way of acting just conned all my friends and family. He was always praising me to my circle yet I was always hearing stories back from the police force about how crazy I was, yet these people didn’t know me and my s kept them away from me, while also telling me that they were jealous ir just wanted to set him and destroy hus perfect marriage.
In the end the one thing that saved me was the thing that I should have used to end it from the beginning – my instincts! They had been screaming “there’s something not quite right with this picture” from the beginning but that slow undermine if self worth wanted proof in the end.
I should have listened but I’ll never ignore them now!
Also, my s did the same thing to my daughter although she isn’t on his side, she is a shell of the person she was when I met him – I’m working on getting her back to 🙂
No edit button! Lol something is always missing from my life 😉
undertheradar
See, the scam is really a scam. So it’s hard to see until you understand HOW the scam is perpetrated.
I kept hearing how I was a gold digger. Yet, I made twice the income of my husband before we married and only agreed to give up my career because we were supposed to work on our business TOGETHER. He wanted my labor and I was okay with that. Afterall, I thought we were working to the same goal.
A gold digger, confused me because I am actually a penny pincher. I paid off our car loan in 18 mo instead of 5 years. I found ways to save on grocery, I did my own haircuts, I bought very few clothes and never paid retail. HE had very expensive shirts, over $100 each, some much more than that. I didn’t mind. He looked good. I didn’t think about HIM being a spendthrift until I found out he had been taking withdrawals of $10,000 each month. Where did that money go????
My daughter is my only real worry now. She refuses contact with me. If I could only get her to understand NONE of it was her fault, If she could learn HOW he manipulated, I think she would feel so relieved. She would then be educated and empowered to undo his crap backwards thinking that he put on her, and not have any guilt feelings over anything she might have done. I think that’s why she avoids me, she feels huge guilt. She doesn’t understand, it’s NOT HER GUILT. It’s HIS CRIME.
NWHSOM, your last post inspired me to share this tidbit. AFTER we bought the house together, when I was there setting it up for “us” and he was still back in our original state waiting for his house to sell, out of the blue he told me this: that when he moved, his expectation was that I would be bringing him money in a bag every month, in my teeth, and I was to bring it to him on my knees. It could be the total of my retirement check, or it could include an additional paycheck that I could go out and earn (and he preferred that). He would allocate me an allowance to run the house out of it. At first I thought he was joking, then I realized he was dead serious, and to him, the house purchase was one big quid pro quo.
This was in a phone call and I remember my eyebrows shooting up. When I hung up, I sat there and thought “f**k me, I’ve made a big mistake”. I thought – what am I going to do?
As we all know, he discarded me shortly thereafter, and although I was lonesome and scared out of my wits, after the initial shock, I never missed HIM. Maybe that was why no contact was so easy. Cleaning up the mess he left me in was another story.
When I heard he was getting married, my first thought was to wonder if he got her to bring him money in a bag in her teeth on her knees, or if that “special” treatment was just for me.
hanaleimoon
I am sure you are right, he prolly did have that image in his head. They do a lot of “if I can dream it, then it must be so!”… never thinking beyond the nose on their face.
I was just amazed how it NEVER occurred to me that he PICKED a fight. All these years, I thought it was because there was something wrong with me that I blind to seeing. Yep. Picked a fight so he had an excuse to go be with someone else. I was that trusting, that DUMB.
NWHSOM, I was that trusting and dumb too. When we still worked in the same office, one morning he picked a terrible fight with me before work and stomped out, telling me that he didn’t know if he wanted to continue the relationship.
I went to work and never saw him all day and of course was miserable. About a week later, my boss told me when he took one of my co-workers out for lunch for their last day (that is how I knew it was the same day), he said that he had seen my ex and the secretary for another department at the restaurant looking very cozy together. His exact comment was “that’s an odd couple if I ever saw one”.
He knew he was having lunch with her, so he had to be mean to me in the morning. They are pigs.
Hanaleimoon
I am so sorry he did that to you. All that misery that we suffered when, in reality, they didn’t want us. I didn’t want a husband who didn’t want me, but that wasn’t what he was saying. He was telling me he wanted me but couldn’t figure out how to keep me from being so “crazy” so he HAD to walk out on me all the time. Your ex was two faced too. Blaming us, when they just created the misery which made it okay for them to go off, and have absolutely no care or feelings, in spite of all that drama and upset, NO FEELINGS.
Yes. Worse than pigs. Sociopaths. Pond scum sociopaths.
NWHSOM
if it helps…I discovered that my s would accuse me of his own dysfunction. Anything he said, in the end, became a warning of his own actions – something I’m grateful for knowing! He would blame project to avoid detection, but it was all from his own backyard and I spent most of the marriage trying to justify myself without this awareness – NOT ANYMORE! Now I know immediately that when someone accuses me of something I’m not then they are subconsciously giving me an insight into who they are – thanks for going! Lol
I was wondering about your daughter, as I wonder about how can I help my own… have you sent her any books on sociopathic behavior? She may not read them but she also might? I’d try that avenue and send her a book every couple of months for 6 months and see if things change.
undertheradar
I don’t know where she lives, no email, no fb. She controls all communication, she calls and the subject must be shallow or else I risk being cut off from hearing from her for an extended time. I think I am not writing well enough to explain her mindset. She is opposed to hearing/learning about sociopathic manipulative behavior. She says that I am avoiding when I try to explain his character to her. In the end, I don’t force the issue anymore. I’d rather know she is well and safe than not hear from her at all… which she had done, over 3 years of not a single kind word… she’d send me a email rant of rage/anger but had blocked so I could not reply.
I didnt ask him to come to my apartment. He was telling me that he is not doing anything anymore after teasing me and saying stuff to me. I only met him to ask the health question as I wanted to know bcs I didnt want to get another procedure. I originally was getting the apt with him in mind coming there too bcs he was not with his wife he had left her. I dont want him anymore bcs he is married. but the stuff in my head that has happened to me does not make any sense. I didnt ask him to come back he was taking back all the things he said he was going to do. oh yea but he still wanted to go to the sportmans club which i have no plans of taking or going with him. I figure that is abt him so he would go not to mention he would not have to pay and it would be on my dime. I am seriously trying to make sense of my life, what happened to me and who i am. I dont like it that there is some medical thing going on with me bcs it was done to me again.
inthemiddle –
I am so sorry you are having to deal with health problems caused by this cockroach. Take good care of yourself and do what is best for your health.
NWHSOM
bringing an innocent child into a sociopaths world is so much by far, worse than hurting myself”to treat his own innocent child and poison her to what she is today?? hopefully the day will come and she will see he does deserve to burn in hell!!
i do hope for you it all works out
Hanalei
Yes, flexing his muscles in front of the mirror , he loved it . I once found a picture he sent her ,he was all sweaty from the gym and he named the picture “sweaty abs”. His pathetic.
And Sunday mornings were the worst for me. And like yours he would slam dishes around when I did not clean to his “drill seargent standards”. They are all the same.
I once lost 30 pounds from walking. His remark was “good thing you lost all that weight, I would left you if you didn’t “. Well he left me anyhow. What idiots they are.
Everything was wrong about this guy. Everything.
Kaya, if a man (even my ex) had ever sent me a picture like that, I’d have thought “ewwww”. I am a grown woman, not a teenager. I appreciate a good looking body like anyone does, but sending a picture? Not attractive, and immature.
HM, Kaya
yuck and gross…exactly
why would an older man need to send pictures of his body….unless he had major insecurities? and why does a younger woman in their twenties, even want to look at that? i know when i was that age just someone five years or ten years older wasn’t even an option for me…
when mine used to send me pictures of him dressed nicely or doing something, that was fine but when he would send a nude shot, it did nothing to me at all…of course at the time i didn’t say that…
Janedoe
I’ve had a little insight into this nude picture question. My s is hell bent on winning me back so he’s done the naked, top half of his body shot, and posted it online for me to see. He also turned up, while I was out having breakfast with my girlfriend, completely hairless and wearing a singlet top just to show off his body – although it is extremely buff, I was just turned off!
My friends and I can only conclude that he was expecting me to get all turned on by him and go running back. He uses his beautiful body to win over women and has never had a problem using it for that result so he assumed it would work on me to, but I’m not that superficial…
These situations just make me feel sorry for him because it’s embarrassing behavior but he’s not aware of the impact its having – little lost soul…
janedoe Undertheradar kaya48 HanaleiMoon
All the picture taking stuff of these guys and my ex… reminds me of Anthoy Weiner (love that last name) sending pics of his thing to strange women… like they’d be impressed.
My ex thought his junk was ambrosia too. Might have been to other women but to me… it made me think that he showed that to lots and lots of women, it wasn’t special anymore. He was just a manwhore. (even more so after infecting me with STD’s) HIS Penis = YUCK to me.
undertheradar
he showed up at breakfast? i hope he felt stupid doing that”but i doubt it!!
it really makes me laugh that they think being sexy and talking sexy and sending pictures is what turns us on!!! if they only would shut up and listen to the truth!!
Kaya
Yes…Everything!