UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Hi everyone. I ALMOST broke no contact 2 days ago, and I wanted to share it. I did not break it, but I was alone and thinking about the last thing I heard from her….that I was “all she had,” and rethinking about the possibilities that maybe, just maybe, she had turned over a new leaf at last. I got a message from her that morning, the first in a month. There was no text, just a blank message with a smiley icon – and I know it was just her way of telling me that she hasn’t stopped thinking about me. So very badly did I want to send a blank message back….I was on my way to the computer at least 2 or 3 times when I got distracted. I think the distraction was God’s way of stopping me. When I feel like that, I read one of my books on the subject or log on to this website. So I am still 5 weeks no contact. It still feels like I am abandoning her, which I promised that I would NEVER do. But I have learned that some promises SHOULD be broken. Disappointed in myself; I thought I was “farther along” than this, especially after a month plus of no contact.
51:
I can understand feeling disappointed thinking you should be further along. I broke it after 1 1/2 months. From what I hear, it happens. We must not be hard on ourselves. Coming here absolutely helps 110%!
Hi Neveragain51, I also wanted to say don’t beat yourself up. Keep going.
neveragain51
No contact includes blocking them from contacting you so you don’t see anything from them. You give a very clear example of why. Just seeing a smiley face put a huge amount of pressure on you, and then it was up to will power. That’s too high a burden. A smiley face ripped your scab open on a horrid wound that takes a LONG time to heal into a scar.
Is there anyway you can block her ability to contact you?
Please don’t be disappointed in yourself. Your vulnerability is proof that you are a person with a heart which is a precious thing in this cold and calloused world. But it also shows how important it is to be NC to her and FROM her.
Neveragain
I broke it… I’m not beating myself up over it but I do have a consequence that will keep me from breaking it again – the crazy head talk started all over again.
I can relate to your feeling of abandonment towards her as mine has been acting like a little lost puppy and I feel like I’ve abandoned my child.
You were blessed with the distractions and I hope they continue for you.
My internet is driving me mad!! I keep logging on to relevant comments and then losing my way!! So, apologies !
I just wanted to say how much I can relate to discussion about the benefit of NC.
Some people on here will remember me a few weeks ago, I felt a hopeless case, distraught, etc.
I still feel sad and fear that if I saw him I would weaken Bit the longer I can maintain NC the better. I know HE feels he is doing his thing…… Cutting me dead but when he sets me he will try and engage me. I need to be strong enough to walk by. Once upon a time, he was a man I walked past In the street with a casual hi, no reason to stop and chat. That is all he can ever be to me now! I don’t wat him to know about my life, my thoughts, my worries and fears…… Nothing!!!! Once, I told him everything, thought he was my best friend. He never was, he just pretended. And I know he would deny that, probably to my face but it is not true!
I wish you all well in maintaining the NC rule. To those struggling with racing thoughts, sleepless nights, feeling distraught etc. it will pass. Take the advice of those on here who have been through much worse than me!
in the middle
it happens, we all do the breaking of no contact. we even miss them for what they pretended to be…
it seems that the series of events that happen to you such as not moving at the moment, your ex husband, your lack of communication with your daughter, provoke you and therefore you cave in…i think you have stated before that you have things you have to deal with that make you feel the way you feel…(an example being, you feel nobody cares for you)
the road is long and hard, i know..its been 8 or 9 months for me approx. some days i am so over him that i could care less and some days i would love to hear from him. why? because of the way he portrayed himself to me as a caring and thoughtful/loving human being. even when he comes back to hoover, he is nice, and YES i fell for it…one thing i keep in my head…HE IS MARRIED and i won’t go there.
something one day will click and it will be easier from that day forward…but you must, must, must start with NC. because the clarity of it all only happens as your thoughts dissipate, and this can only happen with NC. you have a lot going on to deal with right now in your life and unfortunately it is all happening at one time. continue with your therapist or keep posting on here when you want help…remember one thing and in your case i think this would help me..yours told you he isn’t leaving his wife and for you to back off..that alone would make me stay away. i wouldn’t want to lower my standards and continue with him if he came out and told me to leave him alone. i have dignity and self respect and that would always remind me to stay NC. if you could only get yourself to think this way about yourself it would be much easier for you, than someone whose S keeps coming back and saying they want them back!
i too never thought i could do NC and i really want to break it at times still, but i don’t. I’m not perfect. i can’t say i will never in my lifetime speak to him again or break NC but i have to live for the moment and right now, NC is the only way out.
I thought I did that! I blocked her so that I would not even see her emails. But my computer showed it to me anyway, even though it was marked as trash. And just seeing the name blew me away. I need to get stronger….
As I go through these months, weeks, days, it seems a bit weird or different or sad, that these people, we once believed, shared with and opened up to. It’s weird that they are now people we can not even talk to. Not used to that. I didn’t know he was a psychopath or whatever when I was with him. Never read anything about it. The way you look at things changes after it. I still think, is this for real? He’s really a sicko? Yes. Oh well. That’s part of life I guess. Glad for this support network. A more productive use of the internet. Haha
yes omg, that is exactly is in my head. where did i miss the line when it changed over. then i start thinking it was just me that i was just too much to emotional and wanted more than he wanted to give. then the message he wants to be my friend and it is better than hating him and that it was nice when we were friends. but was i really? i dont know again both sides of the mouth but yes i do not look at anything the same anymore. I think people are more mean and lecherous now and i never thought this way before. i am sad that i see life in such a darker version. My NP he comes off to everyone as normal except to one guy who says hes a narccist. the sad thing is the feelings have not gone away yet i wish they would just be gone already.
Inthemiddle:
When I met my ex he said, i’ll be the best friend you ever had. I remember thinking….weirdo.
The whole friend thing, a friend is supposed to be someone we can trust, and genuinely wants the best for us in life, good health etc… ugh.
The part that sucks the most is i have no one. no here in person to tell what happened to me. its a big secret like i am. its like he is ashamed of what he did with me. He hasnt contacted me at all and I dont understand why he said he wanted to still be friends and 3 weeks ago he wanted to see me. wtf!!!! i dont understand any of this with him my daughter my ex. all of the people in my life are there for one reason only to get something from me. Yea my ex is now telling me he is going to counseling every week. is this so he can get someone new. why couldnt he do that when he was with me. also why now is he willing to work on things because he needs to find a new person to take care of him? i hate this crap. why does this always happen? i never win, get the prize and be the one on top. i am always on the bottom being squished to death.
Curls
you stated it so correctly. He has no character. Exactly. The following bible verse is what I apply to my ex husband:
“….and does not stand in the truth, because there is not truth in him. when he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8:44
Thats Satan what we are dealing with. Pure evil, nothing good about him, his character and his being. The only way to sever the ties is to go and remain no contact.
Jane Doe,
I for myself can say that I will never communicate with my ex again. That applies to the rest of my life. I will not give him the opportunity to manipulate and control me again, ever. I dont even have bad days anymore. There is no more sadness or anger, he just does not exist anymore.
In the middle
You need to let go of your desire and need to change this man. He will never change. He is an adulterer, a liar and a manipulator. And he will always be that. You don’t want to be a part of his life, because you will never matter to him. Just like his wife and Amanda….there are all feeding him ego kibbles for the void that he is trying to fill. You need to let go of him for your own sanity and peace. There are million of men, there is someone who will cherish you and not abuse you. Why keep feeding this one man his ego supply…there is only darkness if you keep him around.
Like a therapist once told me…there is no medication, no therapy, no counseling for them….there is no cure. The only way of hope we have is to leave them, divorce them and stay no contact. Even when they play their pity games, there is a motive behind it…its for their benefit and not ours. In the end it will be us who gets discarded, blamed, left in emotional and financial turmoil….chaos, we have to clean up because they are gone, on to the next ego supply…
Thank you everyone. Its been a bad couple of days and yes i know at my gut level I can not fix him at all. I am working with the EMDR lady because she believes that there is a trauma bond with this NP. I know that his wife and amanda they do not have anything either but I miss my friend (so called) for 2 years of my life. It was all just a sham. I realize now through counseling that I have been depressed my whole life and that my eating disorder, shopping, alcohol, men, relationships were to just cover up the sadness i was feeling. I never wanted to face the sadness that i was experiencing. I am in a complicated place because I work with the NP so NC is more of a challenge. I did do some days but then i give in. I keep thinking and hoping that something good in me rubbed off on him and the truth is there is nothing. It is hard to come to grips with it and face that I was nothing to him. because one side of his mouth said one thing and the other side said something else. This thing with my daughter and ex is hard and going to school and still packing is just too much for me. I had no idea how much i put myself under just to have someone want me. My ex is lazy and has nothing but excuses and he finally took care of the credit card stuff but I got tossed from the place i was supposed to stay. I have to believe there is a bigger plan not sure but I hope. thanks everyone for listening to me. i do want recovery, healing and a new life that is taking care of myself and being different.
inthemiddle –
We are behind you 100%. You are in a hellish position having to work with the sociopath that targeted you while dealing with all of the other upheaval in your life. I am so sorry for all of the burdens you are bearing right now. I wish I could reach through the internet and give you a giant hug. Please focus on taking good care of yourself.
Hi all
Well I broke the NC rule…he made it very easy to break…
The detective rang on Monday and said that the 1st case of child sex assault was dropped because they didn’t have enough evidence to prosecute. They have sent it back to the police as a departmental charge which just threatens his job as a policeman. The 2nd case against him is still pending a decision to prosecute…2 weeks and counting til that decision is revealed.
I spoke to the detective for 25 minutes to get the full story so when the spath showed up at my house, ringing the doorbell 10 times in 3 minutes, it was easy for me to answer as I wanted to know his version of events from that morning. Colour me stupid but he’s been acting like a little lost puppy and I’ve been feeling like I abandoned my child rather than fearing for my life.
Umm hello! Set me up to take the blame For losing his job – I can see the writing on the wall!
1 – he downplayed the whole allegation And acted like it was just a slap on the wrist kind of outcome.
2 – said he’d spent the morning with his boss and decided that he was leaving the Dog Squad because “IT AFFECTED OUR MARRIAGE” and “HE KNOWS THAT I WASN’T HAPPY WITH HIM WORKING THERE.” This statement is the future setup as the people that are on his side will blame me because he gave up the job he loved the most to try and win me back but the truth is HE LOST HIS JOB IN THE DOG SQUAD because he can’t be trusted to travel around in a police car on his own.
3 – he said that because our marriage is more important to him than his job that he’d be transferring back to general duties and taking a desk job, 9 to 5 so I could feel better about his job if I decided to go back – umm hello! He lost his job and within 10 minutes of learning that truth, was telling me that he “decided” to do it for me = setup!
4 – he was told there was a 2nd victim and the case was still being reviewed. At no point did he mention this fact but I’m sure he was fishing for information about it. I gave nothing up about that and just let him bury himself in more LIES LIES AND MORE LIES.
I’m glad I answered the door because I know what his plans are and I can stay one step ahead of him. I’ve also become desensitized to his charms because I didn’t react to anything he said other than to congratulate him or tell him not to make decisions based on me returning, I told him that it was his life and he needed to live it according to his desires. All in all, he still has no idea what I know or how I’m involved.
Back to NC!
undertheradar
is your ex taking on a new position at his job because he thinks he will get you back? or has this already happened in the past?? good for you, you made it very clear that you aren’t returning to him”did he even hear you???
it doesn’t seem he is going anywhere or leaving you alone, does it???
lets just keep fingers crossed that the second case works in your favour and against him!!
back to NC, yay to you!
Janedoe
Image is everything to my spath and his arrogance was tied to his position in the Dog Squad so no, he would have been stood down from the unit because he can’t be trusted in the job, but he will use the situation to try and convince me that its all about getting me back – lies!
I also don’t think he ever heard a word I’ve ever said to him – ever! Nor do I think he ever would regardless of the situationTheon a quantum physics level, we only see what ee believe to be true so he will never see it from my point as he’s way to self absorbed to question what I’m doing or saying. I fear that the only way to get rid of him for good is if he gets convicted and goes to jail and I change my name and move away as a new identity…. he still wind because I’ve lost myself 🙁
undertheradar
jeez i hope for you that you don’t have to go to that extent and change your identity..hopefully the second case will prove him guilty and away he goes…but by working for the police force, could it work in his favour, and he can pull strings to be proven not guilty?? what a nightmare for you
Janedoe
He definitely knows what they will look for and what evidence they’d uncover so he made sure his story covered himself. The 2nd case he can’t explain as much away so fingers crossed!
If you define winning as doing the best you can do despite what is out of your control, you are winning. It sounds like you are doing everything right; it must be difficult to encounter him, and keep your cool. I admire your strength and clear thinking.
Consider that there may be an some things motivating him to try to ‘get you back with him’ that you don’t know, even though you know a lot. Consider whether he thinks he would be better off if you were dead, and whether he would act on it. You might also consider what he might do if he comes into your home – is there any information he can see there? could he leave something – surveillance device, poison? could he get brief access to your computer? It may be that none of these things are a factor, but it’s worth considering possibilities that might apply in your situation.
I made a point to meet my ex spath in a public place, the last several times he tried to hoover me. He wanted to meet in my home one time, and he suggested meeting in a remote area of a nature area the other time. I don’t have any specific suspicions – but I know that he is capable of anything if it suits his purpose and he has opportunity.
AnnettePK
I missed you! I haven’t seen a post from you in ages but your name has crossed my mind often – you’re one of my LF heros 😉
I’m sure you’ve delivered this warning to me before because I’ve never invted him in. I live on a main road so we’ve spoken out the front only. I’m also a Bush walker but I’ve never taken him up on an offer to join me for that exact reason – buried in a national park where no one will find my body! This had been a treat he’d made several times during our marriage and because he was a dog squad policeman that spent years searching for lost people in the bush, I’m not leaving anything up to chance.
Good to see you back with you’re valuable advice again x
Under,
Thank you for your warm welcome! I think of my LF friends here often, too.
You don’t need my advice – it sounds like you are on top of your situation. You’re wise not to let him in the house. It took me forever to stop trusting my ex spath, and recognize the risk of harm to me. From what you have shared, it seems like your situation could be extremely dangerous to you. I’ve nagged you about keeping yourself safe before this, for sure!
Hope and prayers things will be over for you soon, and all will turn out as well as possible. It’s so hard, no matter what.
I just went I to my bedside drawer to get something and came across my “good, bad list” about the spath.
Here it is:
Good: funny, confident, outgoing
BAd: dangerous, inconsistent, unreliable dishonest, unfaithful, cold, selfish, self centred, liar, cheat, unkind, short tempered, scathing, drinker, drug taker, risk taker, dissatisfied,
Well, that sAys it all doesn’t it!!???
Glad to be out of it!! Just please God don’t let me see him!!
E:
Thank you for sharing that!
Found this on a website this morning….it is so true, every word.
A Narcissist’s Love Letter
When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I love the way I feel when I’m with you. I love myself through you. I love seeing myself through your eyes. I love seeing myself through my eyes imagining how I look through your eyes. I love having someone new to tell my stories to, to express my opinions, and to share my profound theories and beliefs about the important things in life. I love hearing myself say these things as I imagine how they sound to you, and how enthralled with me I imagine you are.
When I say I’m in love with you, I love having someone beautiful to wear, like a new outfit. I love the way you feel on me. I love the way I feel about me when you are with me.
When I say I’m in love with you, I love not being alone. I love not being that tree falling in the forest. I love having a full-time, personal audience.
When I say I’m in love with you I mean I love being your mystery, your riddle, being what keeps you up at night, your obsession. I love being your altar, your sacrament, your icon, your miracle. I love being your answer. I love being the object of your sacrifice. I love being your pain.
When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I’m in love with being your sun, monopolizing your orbit, being your gravity, keeping you drawn back to me no matter how hard you try to jump or fly, keeping you down. Keeping you mine.
When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I’m in love with breathing your air, sucking your blood, eating your dreams. I’m in love with being your drug, your dagger, your suicide note.
When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I love the story I can tell to my next lover, about my ex-lover, about how beautiful things were, how intense, how storybook, what a couple we were, and how you gradually, inexplicably, painfully, bit by bit, disappeared.
When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I’m in love with breathing your air, sucking your blood, eating your dreams. I’m in love with being your drug, your dagger, your suicide note.
Wow.
🙂
Remember
Lol…Although true!
Can I just tell you how much i appreciate you posting that letter i printed that out too and i laminated it so when i start with my work NP/married man i will pull this out and read it. I am on day 4 of no contact no game playing nothing. It still hurts but I know this is better. i need to take the power away. I also stood up to my daughter appropriately and told her that i would love to spend time with her if she has time without looking at her watch and time clock and if she would not change plans with me. I am tired of her changing plans and i dont want to be constantly penciled in.
Good for you! Even if your daughter pulls away at first over your more assertive self, if she is a normal human being she will be back. In fact, once you are strong enough to stand up as a person rather than lie down as a doormat, I am betting your relationship with her will be much more fulfilling. Now go look in the mirror and say “Self, I love you!” and believe it. Things will get better. You can do it!
Can I just tell you how much i appreciate you posting that letter i printed that out too and i laminated it so when i start with my work NP/married man i will pull this out and read it. I am on day 4 of no contact no game playing nothing. It still hurts but I know this is better. i need to take the power away. I also stood up to my daughter appropriately and told her that i would love to spend time with her if she has time without looking at her watch and time clock and if she would not change plans with me. I am tired of her changing plans and i dont want to be constantly penciled in.
inthemiddle
yay! make your daughter anad your relationship, your priority
you are her mother and she is your daughter for ever and ever, this is what you definitely need to focus on. hope it all works out for you x
Thank you so much for posting this. It could not be said ANY clearer!
kaya
wow the end paragraph is powerful and scary”yuck
this is worth printing and hanging on the fridge, bathroom mirror, in the car,as a desktop on computer”anywhere we can see it constantly thanks kaya
FK that’s painful.
Remember
yes every single move they make comes from the need to control others. If we want to prove our love to them we must surrender all power and control to them and become a real life puppet on strings, so we can enhance their false image, take care of their every need, and accept their self-serving abuse.
When you cut of all contact with them, they lose control. Suddenly they feel small, worthless and powerless. If you dont give them their supply ,their false image cannot be maintained. Going no contact is shifting the power to ourselves, they lose their sanity because now they have not only lost their God-like power, but most importantly they lost their emotional punching bag…YOU.
We have been emotionally and financially abused and then thrown away like a McDonalds paper bag. They appear happy with their new supply. But the new supply does not know the agenda yet and will go along with whatever they say. The new supply will eventually be devalued and discarded too.
The only way we can stay sane is to remain no contact.
Hello,
A question for this thread, to help me decide what’s right to do.
After I was with exPH, I went out with a guy with an addiction (I’ll call him exFWB). I’ve posted about them both here on other threads. At any rate, I have no doubts that exPH was a P and I’m glad to be rid of him, doing LC quite well now with exPH. He said to my lawyer “Cat thinks I”m a Psychopath” and my lawyer said to him “Cat KNOWS you’re a Psychopath”.
I am NC with exFWB, but I have a doubt about exFWB. I really loved him, and wonder if I was unfair to him because I didn’t reconcile with him, fearing he was at best an unrecovered guy with an addiction, at worst another P or N or BPD.
He had D and D’d me, but was muttering about a reconciliation. At any rate, one of my siblings made a rather over the top accusation against exFWB and I confronted him “I know the word on the street”… well… doesn’t exFWB go and confess to something entirely different. Apparently he slandered me to Mrs.Who and her many contacts at (insert name of local rehab). So based on this, I know he WASN’T guilty for what my sibling accused, he was busy slandering me elsewhere.
I have never met Mrs. Who.
But apparently she knows the scoop on exFWB and what he said behind my back.
My question is, should I contact Mrs. Who?!!?
Only contact her if exFWB turns up again?
Or just leave it be?
Thanks for any advice! I always read and post here when I suspect I’m about to do something foolish!
🙂 Cat
Cat
What’s your relationship to Mrs. Who? How severe was the slander?
All of this is reading like a lot of drama. If Mrs. Who isn’t a drama-type, it will feel like drama and out of sorts if you start approaching just to bring up things. Unless that thing was quite severe. If you want to put your mind at rest, then you can check in with her and see what she’s thinking or what SHE heard (isn’t necessarily what he thinks he told her.)
I hope all of this means you are still distant from ex-FWB. He’s an unrecovered guy with an addiction. Which means he’s not relationship material until he’s 1 year sober from the addiction. If you had been only friends, you can keep a friendship. Since you were in a relationship, you can’t reconnect until then.
That he slandered you to others makes him a no-go. You don’t owe him to be fair to him. Relationships aren’t “fair.” The person who wants the lowest amount of contact has complete rights to that. The other person gets to grieve and move on.
I bet if you wait that year, you will see clearer and know what you think with certainty. Even if PROVABLY sober, he’d have to show that he’s a new personality who thinks his old actions are creepy. That change is rare.
When you find someone where their is no drama — that’s when you will eventually find love. Love doesn’t co-exist with tons of drama. It only looks like it does because it’s “high energy.”
It’ll be interesting to see other people’s thoughts. Good luck with it all.
1)What’s your relationship to Mrs. Who? How severe was the slander?
Mrs. Who’s daughter went to the same recovery groups as me and exFWB. Once I was with exFWB, I transferred groups so there wouldn’t be a conflict.
Mrs. Who herself went to another recovery centre that helped me. I never was formally introduced to Mrs. Who, but Mrs. Who’s daughter had difficulties with exFWB, and had exFWB banned from a few groups/events.
Thus exFWB admitted that he spoke against me to others in the groups, and Mrs. Who apparently overheard as well. exFWB blamed Mrs. Who and the others for my non-reconciliation with him. The slander was severe, apparently including false accusations that were potentially actionable – apparently against a number of us, ie// me, Mrs. Who and Mrs. Who’s daughter. (Yep, sounds like co-dependent drama – smells like it too lol)
2. All of this is reading like a lot of drama.
(Yep, see above)
3. I hope all of this means you are still distant from ex-FWB.
Yes, I blocked my emails, changed my cell number, moved, and went to recovery groups in a different city, which went fine BTB. Its just that eventually I may run into exFWB again because we’re in recovery from some similar issues – well, I’m recovered/recovering well, his wasn’t last I heard.
4. That he slandered you to others makes him a no-go. You don’t owe him to be fair to him. Relationships aren’t “fair.”
That’s true – I felt somehow that I had to be fair, nice and a good Christian to him, because others criticized me for overreacting and being too harsh and “paranoid” and taking things too seriously Even my therapist, whom I then quit and found a new therapist familiar with trauma.
5.When you find someone where their is no drama that’s when you will eventually find love. Love doesn’t co-exist with tons of drama. It only looks like it does because it’s “high energy.”
This I shall surely live by!!
Hugs and thank you!!
Cat
well my so called fwb is back to work today and i did not do good at all sorry everyone. i fell off the wagon, off the cliff and into the water. it was nothing but drama all day and all nite. he lied again to me go figure…he is now home by himself until thursday and he was supposed to have the family home tomm. its all lies and i def have trauma/betrayal bonding that i am starting to think i wont recover from. i hate it i work with him and that i need this fing job. i have no place to live now and my ex thinks were getting a place together. my daughter is a bit*h and changed plans again on me and when i did see her she was aloof. I am sick and tired of the constant crap in my life. nothing is going right and I am trying to do the right thing. i was doing so much better when he wasnt around now with him back it sucks. i have been doing rocks, mediation and trying to hold it together and its not working at all. i am so sad it is terrible. i dont feel good about myself and wish that i could just go away somewhere by myself.
well my so called fwb is back to work today and i did not do good at all sorry everyone. i fell off the wagon, off the cliff and into the water. it was nothing but drama all day and all nite. he lied again to me go figure”he is now home by himself until thursday and he was supposed to have the family home tomm. its all lies and i def have trauma/betrayal bonding that i am starting to think i wont recover from. i hate it i work with him and that i need this fing job. i have no place to live now and my ex thinks were getting a place together. my daughter is a bit*h and changed plans again on me and when i did see her she was aloof. I am sick and tired of the constant crap in my life. nothing is going right and I am trying to do the right thing. i was doing so much better when he wasnt around now with him back it sucks. i have been doing rocks, mediation and trying to hold it together and its not working at all. i am so sad it is terrible. i dont feel good about myself and wish that i could just go away somewhere by myself.
Hello Inthemiddleofheartache,
I’m so sorry you’re in the middle of it all, your situation has me thinking that I’m better off just being mostly out of the middle of it all! At least, since exFWB hasn’t worked for nor been in contact with my boss for years, I got out of most of it just by changing (well losing) some of my social support system. Sometimes I wonder if these toxic characters really CAN hypnotize us, or if I was just in bad shape anyhow because of my divorce.
I hope and pray that you can get out of the middle of heartache and into a happier future!
Hugs,
Cat
In the Middle,
It sounds like overwhelming stress. Is there a way you can take a few days off and go off somewhere to regroup and figure out if you can make any changes in your life that will make things easier for you?
I could never deal with my ex Psychopath. I had to have no contact with him. He was always successful in pushing my buttons; no matter how strong my resolve I let him play me every time, for years.
Prayers for you to find relief and a way out to a peaceful life for you.
Good advice from curls. Sounds like you have a good lawyer for dealing with exPH. Your’re doing a good thing for yourself for going NC with exFWB considering he does not treat you well.
Is it possible exFWB is guilty of both what he confessed to and what your sibling accused him of? Is it possible sibling or exFWB lied in their respective accusation and confession?
In deciding whether to contact Mrs. Who, consider what you would gain from it, and what the negative outcome might be. Consider what the likely outcome would be if you don’t go to her. How much do you care what these people think of you, and will they think better or worse of you if you try to correct the slander. Think about what is best for you. As long as you’re acting ethically, you don’t owe anyone else anything.
Another thing to consider is you can always contact Mrs. Who, but once you have talked to her, you can’t take it back if it doesn’t go well and backfires on you or something.
You owe it to yourself to take good care of yourself and make things as good as you can for your life. Slander is against the law and there are civil remedies. You may want to talk to your lawyer about it.
I am sorry that you were betrayed by someone whom you felt love for, who bad mouthed you to others and D&D’d you. What a jerk. You are so right to have NC with him. He does not deserve you. I’m not sure I understand about basing your decision about contacting Mrs. Who on whether ex FWB turns up. If you are maintaining NC, you are controlling that he won’t turn up in your life again.
You are wise to seek counsel and to take the time to think things over before deciding on a course of action.
1. Good advice from curls. Sounds like you have a good lawyer for dealing with exPH. Your’re doing a good thing for yourself for going NC with exFWB considering he does not treat you well.
Is it possible exFWB is guilty of both what he confessed to and what your sibling accused him of? Is it possible sibling or exFWB lied in their respective accusation and confession?
>>> Yes, both of these are possible but unlikely.
2. In deciding whether to contact Mrs. Who, consider what you would gain from it
>>> I’d like to gain confirmation/validation that the whole thing wasn’t just in my head, and to know if exFWB was just a poor, ill, addicted guy, or really another P like exPH. exPH actually admitted his character in something he calls his “Wolf eat the Sheep” speech – its summarizes a whole P philosophy of life. Whereas exFWB is confusing, seems to have some P traits but deep down not to be evil.
3. and what the negative outcome might be.
>>>> that she has reconciled with exFWB and tells him and the others that “the Crazy Cat” is still hanging around, making drama, then exFWB acts out against me or Mrs. Who.
4. Consider what the likely outcome would be if you don’t go to her.
>>>> exFWB apologized for making false accusations against me to the people in recovery but he declined to tell me the details. So what will happen is that I’ll never truly know the extent of the slander unless it comes up to bite me one day.
5.How much do you care what these people think of you, and will they think better or worse of you if you try to correct the slander. Think about what is best for you. As long as you’re acting ethically, you don’t owe anyone else anything.
>>>>>I used to care a ton about what they thought!! Now, I just feel sad that there are some places and groups I can’t go to without facing the slander and shame!! That there are places I haven’t been welcome since!! That there are people I respected who are lost to me, seemingly forever, people I cared about too who stand by exFWB, I guess, and some that stand by Mrs. Who and her daughter, me I just ducked out before things got worse!
6. Another thing to consider is you can always contact Mrs. Who, but once you have talked to her, you can’t take it back if it doesn’t go well and backfires on you or something.
>>> This is true!
7. You owe it to yourself to take good care of yourself and make things as good as you can for your life. Slander is against the law and there are civil remedies. You may want to talk to your lawyer about it.
>>>> I did, they asked me if I wanted to take action and I said no. They said they’d defend me if exFWB did any action against me (eg// extortion, slander I could prove, etc.)
8. I am sorry that you were betrayed by someone whom you felt love for, who bad mouthed you to others and D&D’d you. What a jerk. You are so right to have NC with him. He does not deserve you. I’m not sure I understand about basing your decision about contacting Mrs. Who on whether ex FWB turns up. If you are maintaining NC, you are controlling that he won’t turn up in your life again.
>>>> Oh, its just because exFWB and I have been in the same recovery/rehab circles, so I figured I might run into him, or up against him, or he might try and sweet-talk me or make trouble again if I did encounter him. Plus he knows my boss. Yep – sounding like more drama by the minute – I realize now that I was ill/depressed after exPH and just got into and out of another mess after my divorce 🙁
9.You are wise to seek counsel and to take the time to think things over before deciding on a course of action.
>>> Thank you, I just had a feeling my foot was heading back into my mouth where it usually resides!!
Hugs to everyone at Lovefraud,
Before Lovefraud, I was very lost!!
Cat
In the middle
I thought this letter as very powerful. It is written clear and gets the message across. They do not love us, not one bit. And we are in love with the illusion, the person we want them to be.
For 20 years I truly loved this man, I loved him with all my heart and soul. It was one sided and when he told me he loved me, it was a lie. He did not even love his own child. It was all lies. My son and I were feeding his ego, he wanted to be worshipped like a God. When I no longer fit his so called standards of being “beautiful” I was discarded and replaced with someone who fit that standard. For a father to do something like this to his family is a selfish, cowardly act.
I thought being discarded was the end of the world….no it was not. It was the beginning of a greater life, I just did not realize at first. I stayed for over 20 years because I was manipulated into thinking this kind of life is the norm….I did not know any different. Now I do. And the only way I realized and accepted his evilness is to remove myself from any contact with him
You work with this man and I am not sure I would be able to do this. If there is any chance for a transfer I would ask for it. As long as you make eye contact with him, he is in control.
My goal is to work through this. I am willing to take responsibility for my part but I am not able to leave this job as of yet. I will not play the game give him ego kibbles and let him think he has anything with me. He sent me a message to return to the game. yes the whole thing with his is a game. he is still married canoodling with amanda and keeping me in the mix with the rubber worm. I need to keep reading this letter bcs it is the truth, my truth. this is not going to get any better until i take the steps to make it stop.