UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
In the middle
I think you are going in the right direction. You now are realizing that you are the only one who can make the pain go away. It has to come from you. If you really think, even if this guy stops seeing his wife and Amanda, would you want a person like him in your life?
When my ex lied and lied, I thought I was going crazy. He had “explanations” for the craziest things. And I believed him. Once he acted like going to his nightshift and I noticed paid time off was missing on his pay stub. 32 hours just missing….his explanation was “the Sheriffs Dept made a mistake.” I believed it. Now I can laugh about this stuff. He played me for an idiot but in the end I prevailed. He was served with divorce papers and I never talked to him again. You know, their games only go as long as we participate. I put to an end to it because I said No more. Now I know he did not deserve my love, the love of his son, and he did not deserve us in his life. To get to this point is exhausting, difficult, and a long road. But if you put all your determination into it, all you strength and will power, you can make it.
inthemiddle
you so don’t want to take him back if he discards his wife and amanda”it will be a matter of time before he dupes you, again, and returns to them and the vicious circle will continue.
it is worth a couple months of anguish, hurt, betrayal, crying and anger to get over him,* see what he really is like and understand how their freaking minds work), than it is to fall back into this physically and emotionally harmful spell only to be hurt all over again and again..
i didn’t believe at first he would come back to hoover (hover? not sure which) me at the beginning so therefore i used that reason to convince myself he isn’t a sociopath. he was textbook and right on target. as soon as things were getting to the point of thinking of him each second of each day, he did come back and very strongly. just like the first day i met him, the over board love bombing, promises being made (that are so ridiculous because he is married now and wasn’t then). it was almost as though he had forgotten he had dragged me through the mud already and was approaching me for the very first time. all i can say is thank god i joined LF, because now i knew what a f***king slime he was. did he actually forget he pursued me and put me through hell and has the gall to re make the same promises over again??!!!
the only thing different he has said to me this time around is that i am so much smarter than his new wife and she will NEVER be able to figure out the things i have about him because she is in la la land ..she is stupid and easy to manipulate and she will be no problem to walk over and he will never do that to me again!! uh huh”three times of hoovering me and each time the next day after saying his lies, he disappears until he is depleted and needs to hoover me with those words of his, but like clockwork, he kept disappearing…
thank goodness you are slowly starting to see the light, because what has happened to each and every one of us, although each is different, will happen to you. but now when he comes knocking, you will know better”its so very tough to convince yourself he means harm, and don’t kick yourself if you fall off track, we have all done it”but keep in mind, you need to go through this process before you actually see him for what he is for”live and learn by how he treats people because it isn’t a sudden new characteristic trait he has, he has and always will be this monster!!!
keep it up!!
JaneD:
I like that last point you made, because mine would act like and say, that he didn’t behave like this with his ex…because I would say, this is what you did to her. I find it hard to believe he just became this way at 40. She left him and took the 2 small children with her and moved faaar away back home- while he was at work one day. Mhmmmm.
remembertoforget
yeh i don’t think they just become like this”mine is 60 and has been going at it for awhile. not to mention he gets worse as he gets old and ugly
has yours had contact with his wife as of yet? how is the NC going for you?
Yes, she came back in contact last summer. They aren’t married. (Who knows though), they have 2 small children. He was abusive and a harrasser stalker to me so, no way he got like that over night. Why would a girl with no job and 2 small kids escape/leave while he was at work.? She didn’t work for years, she was totally dependant on him. With how he was to me- I can only IMAGINE what he did to her. She is 12 years younger than him. My no contact is going. The only way he can get me is through my old email address. I stopped checking it. I can’t talk to him. Everything he says is a lie or a distortion.
🙂
remembertoforget
wow i just read your story and as i was reading it, without knowing it was you who wrote it, i thought it sounded similar to your story. only realized when i checked the name above it, that it was your story”its very traumatic and i believe it has been the second worse thing in your life”I’m so sorry to hear about your cancer but you are a survivor of the best kind..if you can pull through cancer, you are a hero and you can pull through this!!!
they are what they are”they won’t change and they don’t get any better even though they promised..i noticed in your story he was saying to you that he’d already found someone, after you didn’t want him, that loved him and wanted to be with him and he felt the same”whats funny and so typical he had written you claiming you were the one for him”so didn’t he contradict himself??? mine did that all the time which gave me more proof that he is a psycho/weirdo/sociopath/narc!!!
JD:
Oh yea, he had plenty he said- and someone waiting for me to fk up that really loves him. Sicko. Everything was a contradiction.
I didn’t see my story there. Lol
His sister made up that she had cancer or he made it up and I asked her about it. No real answer. They are those people. Lol. Making up illnesses and stuff. Eewwww
remembertoforget
sounds like his family are all liars? why would they make up illnesses like that!!!
yeh they are sick…in the head!!!
JaneD:
When we were first together, he said oh my sister called she prob has cancer now or something-sad and dramatic, so I met her a few days later and chatted and I asked her what’s going on with that and what was she told, no straight answer, I guess it was lumps in her neck, and blood in her urine I questioned, yea I obviously know alot of medical stuff. I was like oh my you can’t blow it off girl make sure you go to the dr. Yea well never got answers through the relationship when I asked him. 6 months later she was by my apartment all drunk or something looking for my ex and he shoed her away! He also told me when we were getting aquainted- ha, that his ex had got cancer when they were together maybe lymphoma I asked that name- he was like yea we would go to the doctor with her but he had no idea of what she had and how it went away. I’m like did she have surgery? Chemo? Uh she took some pills.
I’m like that doesn’t make sense he said that’s what everybody says.
Cause your a FKN LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe they have munchausen or by proxy!!!
The wisdom on this site astounds me! We have all been through the fire in order to gain this wisdom. While we may not have chosen this method of learning – it is obvious to me that we are stronger, smarter, and more confident people than we were before. Hurray for us!
Neveragain
Yes hurray for us! Although I’m still finding my way back to the person I was before the spath, I get stronger every day and it’s because of this site 🙂
Never51:
Agree!!
We learned it the hard way, but learned nevertheless!
🙂
annettePK,
Glad to see your post. You gave me advice when I was first discarded; when I was a complete “mess”. You, Hanalei, and many others here all had it right. I did recover, I moved on, and I stayed no contact, and life has turned out to be much better than I ever imagined.
Today, at the Easter Service at my church, it became clear to me again that you need to have faith and hope. We need to believe that we can overcome those years and years of crazy making and gas lighting, all the lies we were told, all the blaming we took , all the chaos before we were thrown in the garbage. I still remember how badly I wanted my ex husband to come back home to be an appropriate spouse. How I cried and begged to him at first. What gave me complete clarity was finding the proof of the affair, finding that while he declared me “mentally ill’ he was sipping champagne with her in Key West. While I was laying in bed crying, he was visiting the Bahamas. While I forced myself to get up and go to work every day, he was at a lavish dinner on an Island. While I believed my world had ended, he was having the time of his life. It opened my eyes and experiencing what he was capable of was my point when my thoughts shifted…away from him. I learned to stop loving him as a husband and as a father. I learned to stop needing to change him, I learned to stop caring about him.
Divorce is not an easy decision to make, and it is not an easy way out. In my case it was the only solution to my sanity and to stay alive. I have met many great people throughout this ordeal, including my attorney. People who believed in me and gave me courage to finally say “I HAD ENOUGH.”
In the end, it was the best decision I ever made. Satan has no chance, because if God is for me, who can be against me?
Wishing everyone here a Happy Easter, stay strong in your no contact, and let God take control.
Amen, and God Bless!
Kaya,
Are you sure I ever gave you advice? I’ve been inspired by your strength and resolve, and your faith; and encouraged by the measure of peace and happiness you have created in your life, despite the pain and hardship.
Ok, I know what you are saying. but as i said before
1. i have no friends everyone is gone
2. i am packing my house and i need a place to live
3. i am tired of thinking of everyone else because that is what got me into this.
4. there is nothing i want to do for myself because i am sad
5. i dont want to volunteer because then i focus on that and will not work through my issues.
6. i am divorced and bec of my ex my credit is messed up.
7. I hate myself bcs i cant get this pain to stop.
8. i cant think of anything else but my np bcs i want to know the truth and why he did this to me.
this is not a good time. i have no one in my life to be support me and be positive bcs my ex and my daughter are toxic.
I think you’re doing a good job thinking logically and listing your problems out. That is a good first step in finding solutions.
Some of these factors you have no control over, and some you do.
Having no friends sucks, but eliminating toxic friends will ultimately benefit you. Developing new friends takes time, so for now you’re right, you don’t have the support of friends, but you do have our love and support here on LF. We care what happens to you and how you feel.
Packing and finding a place to live is a full time endeavor, and working at that may help distract you from your emotional pain.
Being tired of thinking of others to the detriment of taking care of yourself is good for you. You can change that with every decision you make how to spend your time, money, and other resources.
Being sad leads to not wanting to do anything much at all. Most folks find that if they force themselves to take some small steps even though they don’t feel like it at the time, it leads to feeling better and feeling like doing more. You probably don’t have anything to lose if you do some things for yourself even if you don’t feel like it, when you have the time to spare. You could start with a 15 minute stroll and look at some pretty flowers, or something similar.
When you do an activity live volunteer, you want to balance it with working through your grief. You’re right not to spend all your time doing things that leave you with no time for sorting out long term problems. It’s a balance.
Bad credit is something you can work out a plan to fix. It will take time, but you can do it. There are resources out there to help.
You’re right that you can’t stop the hurt you feel on demand. Consider that it’s not your fault you feel bad – you were treated badly and you didn’t know some things you know now. If you realize that you did the best you could, perhaps you can forgive yourself. That’s not easy when people have blamed you for things out of your control all your life, but you can do it.
All of us who were betrayed and abused by a spath have spent time being driven crazy trying to figure out why a spath does what he does. We know we didn’t deserve it, we know it’s not our fault, and we can’t understand why anyone would do what they do. I’m not sure there are any good answers. They do what they do because that’s who they are. Maybe be glad we can’t understand them. I found some answers in my spiritual understanding of good and evil, the meaning of life, prophecy and my theology. You will find some kind of answer that works for you.
Consider that you do have some control of what you think about – you can direct your thoughts to some extent and take charge of your brain. (If the spaths took control of our minds, we ought to be able to control ourselves at least as much!)
Prayers for you to feel better soon. You’re going through a bad time when it all hits. Change is difficult. Being abused, exploited and betrayed is so wrong and so destructive. You are not responsible for what he did to you.
Annette, your comment is so full of gentleness, compassion and kindness! In contrast, my comment sounds like I’m an ogre. I identify so much with inthemiddle that I think I am really writing to myself as I was 4 years ago.
H Moon,
I think that’s what’s so good about a “multitude of counsel” (Proverbs 11:14) – different ideas offer more than just one approach, and more potential to find something that will help.
I think my comment has the potential to be kind of depressing, while yours offers enthusiasm and motivation. Hopefully a valuable balance of ideas for IntheMiddle.
Annette, I know that if I had a dollar for every time I thought “I’m all alone in the world” (my favorite tune) or “I have no friends” or I’ll never be able to (fill in the blank) again”, I’d be planning a nice trip to Hawaii right now.
With the help of my therapist, a lot of reading and a true desire to feel better, I changed my attitude. The change was based on gratitude and reality, really. Little by little I stopped with those scary, horrible thoughts and chose to see things differently.
If I thought oh no what if my car dies and I’m stranded, I have no one to call, I followed that up with I have AAA and they will come 24 hours a day – I am grateful that I have AAA coverage.
If I thought I had no friends, I realized that what I was really lamenting was that I didn’t have my ex and the stable relationship I thought I had. At the same time, I was slowly meeting new people. Some passed right on through, and some became new friends. I was grateful for them and the time we shared.
If I thought I was all alone in the world, I realized that yep, it was all about not having my ex and the stable relationship I thought I had. I was grateful that I had my therapist, an attorney I trusted, a passing conversation with someone at the gym, even if the guy in the produce section at the grocery store smiled and asked if I was finding everything I needed.
I’ve said before, it was a good day if the roof was only leaking in one room and not two or three.
It wasn’t easy, and I admit I wanted to hang on to certain parts of the lament. One or two became such a habit that I kept on thinking them long after they had expired and no longer applied until I realized it and had a good laugh at my own expense. Those laments had become a part of me without me realizing it and they no longer applied.
Do you know about tut.com? You can get a daily upbeat message from the Universe”it’s great. Their motto is “thoughts become things”choose the good ones”. It’s really true.
There is good in every day.
Inthemiddle,
You are damn right that this is not a good time.
You may not believe this, but I have been where you are. Of your list of 8, at one time I could have written them all with a slight modification of 6 – my credit wasn’t messed up, but my financial stability was nonexistent. I also had no one in my life to support me. No one.
I sang these laments for months, until I realized that no one was listening, no one was coming to rescue me and I was on my own, responsible for where I went from there. I chose life.
Annette makes a great point about gratitude. Start by being grateful for your life and grow from there. Your list is so big, and so terrible that it doesn’t allow for any light to come in. I suggest giving yourself a break and turning away from the sadness for a minute and saying a prayer of gratitude for your life.
You say you don’t want to volunteer because then you will focus on that and will not work through your issues – baby, the whole point of volunteering is to HELP you work through your issues. You can’t see it now, and I didn’t then either, but look at it this way – your mind needs a rest. One of the proven ways to feel better about yourself is to help others. One of the proven ways to feel better is to get moving, and give your mind a rest. Some of my biggest breakthroughs have happened when I was busy doing something completely non-related to my long list of laments. Believe me, a few hours a week volunteering will not deter you from working through your issues, and might give you a little pleasure”imagine that!
I know you feel that you can’t leave your job and I understand it because I have been there too. I suggest that you consider something other than black and white thinking, and leave yourself open to options. Unless you are under a court order to stay at that place of employment, a change is possible. I suggest that you consider your own life and well being vs. continuing your employment there. Maybe you can have both, and that would be great. I did many things I thought I couldn’t do. I took a job at a much lower level than I was qualified for, at half the salary I was used to making, in order to avoid ruining my credit. I did fine. Right now, I am working part time with no benefits and I’m grateful for the work and the paycheck, as well as a sense of purpose. I urge you to consider your true motivation for feeling you must stay at that job when what comes with it is destroying you.
I’ve written here before these words: I thought I couldn’t, but I can and I must.
I’ve said before that you are in a position to take control of your life and build it in the way you want – freshly divorced, moving to a new home, completing your degree, your daughter about to become independent.
If you are like I was back then, you are reading this and thinking, yeah whatever, she just doesn’t understand. But I do understand, and I know that you need to choose life and start walking in that direction without regard to your list. You must.
i get what your saying but doing the emdr and having no place to live and divorced no relationship w my daughter and my np yea its not too good. with all of the anger coming out its been a lot to deal with. the problem with me my forced upon mantra i had to live by was stop thinking abt yourself think of others and do for others. well look at that thinkg its got me into all kinds of mess. so if im not positive rite now my counselors get it and not having a support system and going through all this trauma it is alot.
Kaya, Annette, Under, NWHSOM, and all”I hope you had a wonderful Easter! I’ve been missing in action these past couple of weeks (although I’ve been skimming posts) because”TA DA”I found a job! Yippee! It’s only part time, but it’s a great one and after over a year of not working, I’m very happy and exhausted!
I also have had a chance to apply all that I’ve learned about trusting my gut. I’ve been house hunting for almost a year now with disappointing results, and two weeks ago today, I found a dream cottage”made an offer”and it was accepted. At first glance, it had all that I wanted and needed – super cute, the location I was hoping for, good condition, original pristine 1953 hardwood floors, a new roof! But it also came with some things I didn’t need or want – an unpermitted addition, a pool, a sauna/dressing room building (also unpermitted) cantilevered over a questionable slope, and a hazard report stating that the property was in a special geologic zone with high probability of land sliding. My gut started screaming at me. I tore myself up trying to weigh the merit of finding what I wanted, even though it meant accepting/living with things that I didn’t want, didn’t need, and were potentially costly to me. I WANTED this house to work – I wanted to move in, be happy, and get to stop looking.
It dawned on me that this property was the perfect analogy to my relationship with my ex”it had so many things I wanted and needed, but it meant accepting and living with things that I didn’t want, didn’t need, cost me money and harmed me.
I knew the house was a real find, but as the days went on I got more and more uncomfortable and cancelled the contract.
I’m a little sad, but I’m also relieved. I know I did the right thing. I know if I had listened to my gut about my ex in the early days of the relationship in the same way and walked away, I would never have suffered like I did, and the rug ultimately would never have been pulled out from under my life.
I’m proud that I listened to my gut. Maybe none of my concerns would have ever caused a problem, but there was enough doubt for me to walk away. I know I disappointed a few people (the sellers, the agents, my loan officer) but that is what the due diligence period is for – to make a full investigation to make sure it is the home for you! I am more important than their disappointment. (This all makes me feel good that if a relationship ever comes my way again, I will be able to keep my head straight and do what is right for me.)
I’m getting right back on the horse and am looking at more homes tomorrow!
Thanks for letting me share, friends! xoxo
Good advice from curls. Sounds like you have a good lawyer for dealing with exPH. Your’re doing a good thing for yourself for going NC with exFWB considering he does not treat you well.
Is it possible exFWB is guilty of both what he confessed to and what your sibling accused him of? Is it possible sibling or exFWB lied in their respective accusation and confession?
In deciding whether to contact Mrs. Who, consider what you would gain from it, and what the negative outcome might be. Consider what the likely outcome would be if you don’t go to her. How much do you care what these people think of you, and will they think better or worse of you if you try to correct the slander. Think about what is best for you. As long as you’re acting ethically, you don’t owe anyone else anything.
Another thing to consider is you can always contact Mrs. Who, but once you have talked to her, you can’t take it back if it doesn’t go well and backfires on you or something.
You owe it to yourself to take good care of yourself and make things as good as you can for your life. Slander is against the law and there are civil remedies. You may want to talk to your lawyer about it.
I am sorry that you were betrayed by someone whom you felt love for, who bad mouthed you to others and D&D’d you. What a jerk. You are so right to have NC with him. He does not deserve you. I’m not sure I understand about basing your decision about contacting Mrs. Who on whether ex FWB turns up. If you are maintaining NC, you are controlling that he won’t turn up in your life again.
You are wise to seek counsel and to take the time to think things over before deciding on a course of action.
Not sure why my reply to Cat is showing up here…..
H Moon,
It’s encouraging to me to hear about your new job – and that your efforts are paying off for you, and things are looking up.
Good for you, to make a difficult decision about the house based on the big picture and overriding somewhat your hopes and wants with logic. I love that your enthusiasm continues despite the setback.
Decisions, especially major, are always stressful for me. My exP hypnotized and manipulated me into being in a relationship with him, so I bypassed the ‘decision’ whether to get involved with him and to marry. Your house experience made me realize that; I hadn’t thought about it before.
Annette, you make such a good point, because now that I think of it, I bypassed the decision to get involved with my ex too”I wasn’t and then, I was, and that was it.
From the first date with my ex, I had concerns, but I also (thought) I saw some things I really wanted in a partner, and that caused me to overlook a lot. Of course now I know I was being manipulated and didn’t stand a chance, but the lesson is still there.
I clearly remember early on having the thought about him that I was being handed everything I wanted on a silver platter, why was I holding back. That was the moment I jumped in with both feet.
I don’t know if comparing all this to the house purchase is so cut and dried, but as the days go on since I cancelled the contract, I feel good that I made a wise and informed decision in my best interest.
I’ve never been a nervous decision maker, but the experience with my ex sure left me that way. For that reason, I over thought all of my concerns, but in the end, I knew they were legitimate. I could have been moved by the end of the month, settle in and enjoy the spring and summer and I couldn’t help thinking I told myself the same thing about my ex – do you REALLY want to make an issue out of this or that when there are so many things that you want? Those issues in the relationship turned out to be the ones that never went away and worked to destroy me.
HanaleiMoon
You make excellent observation here regarding your concerns about your ex.
I had the same nervous feelings about relationship decisions and actually sought help from a therapist (one of many who were crappy, until I found a gem who was grounded with common sense). That awful therapist told me that I had won the lottery and that it was me sabotaging myself that made me wonder if my now ex was too good to be true.
(turns out it was my intuition that something wasn’t right…. why some guy would be in his thirties and if he was so great, why didn’t he marry previous girlfriends, all of whom were really good women.)
I Think A LOT of us had intuitions that worked but those legitimate concerns were undermined and we set them aside thinking we were wrong. No. We weren’t wrong, but when concerns are so vague, and without proof, we can be mislead. It’s only with experience that we know what to look for, to check out, to query… and you used your experience to make a smart life decision THIS time. Bravo!
NWHSOM, funny you mention winning the lottery, because my realtor said almost the same thing to me the first time we looked at the house I made the offer on, and again when the offer was accepted.
I’ve been looking long enough to know that it WAS a great house and I was lucky to get my offer accepted (it was on the market two days and had multiple offers) but I also kept my wits about me enough to look behind the shiny sparkly curtain.
I guess I’m a “finicky” buyer since I know something about construction, geology and take the time to read the fine print. LOL
Big CONGRATS to you HanaleiMoon
I thank you for sharing your good news. I am happy for you and that makes me feel good too!
I also thank you for sharing about the house, and about your processing. I am so glad you did not buy a house that is in a precarious situation…poised to fall off a cliff. It sure did look pretty, but the danger of the foundation did not make it a smart buy. You applied wisdom to your decision and did not allow others to shame or embarrass you into a relationship that was good for them and bad for you. HUGE HUGE HUGE congrats!
I look forward to a description when you do find your new home.
This was such a nice post for me to read today. You inspire me to get out there and do the same for myself! Happy Days to YOU! 🙂
Thanks all, for the kind words!
NWHSOM, it was a big moment for me to make the right decision and not allow others to shame or embarrass me into something that was good for them and bad for me.
For all the words otherwise, I feel a shift in their approach to me, and I can’t help but feel I’ve been “bad”. Some old habits die hard, but I’m toughing it out. I did nothing wrong. Geesh people back out EVERY DAY for no reason at all.
HanaleiMoon
If it makes you feel any better…
My family’s done a lot in real estate over the years. It sounds like that house has structural issues? When considering property with possible structural issues, it’s important to get at least 3 written estimates for repairs that bring it up to full specs and safety — before buying.
It’s important because it’s THAT big a deal to have structural issues. The house should then sell at the price of repairs plus a premium for the risk of it not being fixable in the end. Should look like a huge steal (and it’s not.)
You don’t buy a house with issues, unless you really want to invest in those issues and are well prepared. For instance, if it’s a tear down property where it will be replaced completely. Or you are speculating that repairs will cost less than estimates. Or you really love the whole thing, and there isn’t something else that would do — no other land with houses around at all to buy instead. Or you ARE a contractor with structural repair experience.
Your instincts were right. I’m sure the agent was hoping to sell. However, she knows full well, that you made the normal, sane decision. Whatever you are picking up on — it’s not less respect for you. If she’s unhappy at all, that’s part of the work, and she’ll deal, and if she doesn’t — it still has nothing to do with you.
There’s an out clause because people sometimes need to get out! That’s what it’s there for.
There are a lot of agents in this world. So if she stops living up to expectations, there are plenty more. If she keep showing up and doing well… let her get more into the grove again… she will.
When you do buy — get the paper work in advance and go over, especially the numbers, but everything very carefully. And get EVERYTHING photocopied – it’s your legal proof of all sorts of little and big things. If something makes you uncomfortable and like you are being pushy, in business transactions, that’s the flag that you are about to get ripped off. That’s when it’s time to hold strong and get insistent (be it on reviewing numbers, or getting a copy, or getting an agreement detailed in writing, or backing out, ….)
Curls, thanks for the comment and the validation!
The house itself doesn’t have structural issues (although it does have an unpermitted addition), but the property has a slope that at best is an ongoing maintenance issue and at worst, could have stability issues in the future.
I am an engineer that has worked with geotechnical issues throughout my career, and while it doesn’t appear that the house would ever be threatened, if there were ever stability issues, repairs to the slope would be costly.
My realtor argued that the slope had been there since 1953 and looked “fine”, and my response was – but you don’t know what it looked like in 1953, and how it has changed to today, in my opinion, there were clearly areas of concern. She suggested I retain an engineer (chuckle) to examine the slope and give me an opinion. I realized that I myself was qualified to give a professional opinion, and I’d advise against buying the house unless (as you said), you were prepared to invest in those issues. I wasn’t.
Add to that that the hazard report for the property stated that it is in a “special” geological zone, with a HIGH (their caps) probability of land sliding. The red flags were practically burying me.
It was not the right house for me, I knew it, and it just took a few days for me to wipe the stars out of my eyes. I used my head and all is well.
The house sold the same day it went back on the market after I cancelled.
Hanalei
Good on you And thanks for sharing because it’s inspiring to all of us to trust in our inner guidance 😉
Congratulations on the new job as well! Yippee and hooray willl become your new energy now so the new house will magically appear for you very soon 🙂
I too have just been sitting on the sidelines of discussions here because I’m extremely busy with our holiday season in Oz and I also find that I feel happier for longer periods if I don’t spend so much time going over the past – I miss my new LF friends so skim the notifications but mostly I’m out and about early so don’t have time, today is no exception! I’m off to work early so happy hunting x
HanaleiMoon
That’s very funny. Sometimes it looks like the universe brings things, so we can step over them, that are just the right fit for us. In this case, you having done geotechnical work with expertise … and a house with land slide issues. An unusual combination, and just right for you to grow with your decision.
“been there since 1953 and looked “fine”
What a scientific assessment. The leaning tower of piza looks fine too (if you don’t back up too much when looking).
“it is in a “special” geological zone, with a HIGH (their caps) probability of land sliding. ”
That’s stunning. Moving ground comes with this property…
On the closings thoughts that I rambled about, most closings have gone smoothly, but I added those because I’ve had two (I realized it was the attorneys in each case) try to rip me off. One buried a double charge into the numbers in a complicated way. It took me hours to figure out what was wrong. The bank later spotted something fishy in it too. It was no accident. The other (their attorney) casually changed the escrow during closing (corrected it), then walked off to photo copy for himself and said he wouldn’t bother for me to save me time (or some such odd comment). I insisted on a copy and didn’t think more about it — until 3 months later when he wouldn’t return the escrow, and gave me a song and a dance before no longer returning my calls. I eventually got each worked out (with plenty of stress involved) — but now it’s my mantra to be careful about details at closings.
Hi everyone. Been a while since I have posted. I go days without reading the post and then read a lot of them and then go days again.
Well, as you can imagine, I fell off the wagon at the end of February. No reason to rehash all of what happened. We all know the story even if it is not exactly the same. And again, DISCARD. And no reason in rehashing that either. It is the same ‘ole story.
So I begin again. Make appointment with my therapist. Block everything to do with him. I boxed all his crap up. Debating on mailing to him or burning it.
Will I ever learn??
freedom15
I don’t know if his crap has any $ value, but there is something to be said for burning a person item of his. I did that with a particular shirt I bought my ex. He looked VERY handsome in it, and knew it. He wore that shirt to troll for new women. I cut it up into little pieces and burned it.
For your ex’ other stuff, I’d contact someone close to him, and take it over there for him to claim. (if he has a new women, I’d dump it at her house, up to him to reclaim it there.)
Document it all though, so you can prove you delivered it.
Does mailing it to his exwife who he is trying to get back with work?
It took me years before I was finally successful in NC. I could hardly go a day without engaging him forever. When I finally got to NC, it was the beginning of my recovery.
It could make you feel a bit better to destroy his stuff, but it can also make you feel worse, because it doesn’t really change what he did to betray you and harm you. In the long run, if we rise above their level and do the right thing no matter what the spath does, we end up feeling better sooner. Easier said than done, though, when it would satisfy to set his stuff on fire.
Consider that he wants you to act out and contribute to his drama, so if you do the most right and least dramatic thing – like mail his stuff back without a note or any other comment; that is probably the best way to irritate him. Consider releasing your anger in ways that he will never know, like print a photo of him and attack and destroy it.
I changed his name in my phones to “psychopath” so when he did call that’s what came up for the caller ID. I printed out a picture of a tombstone with his name and date of death of my choosing on it, and put that up on the fridge for awhile. His emails are filed in a folder I named “Pedophile crossdresser psychopath.” I refer to him by his (unusual) last name only, because his first name is a common man’s name and I know some other nice guys with that name. Instead of letting him push my buttons and enjoy the show, I created drama of my own choosing that I shared with trusted friends and family, that the spath never knew about. I shared some joking (cross dressing does have a funny side for some reason) with friends. I balanced that with serious grieving for the relationship that never existed and the loss of someone who never existed. The grieving process had nothing to do with him, because he never was whom I loved and whom I lost. It was the fake person he created based on my values and my good traits. I grieved being betrayed, but did not let him know it.
Once I got free of the fog of hypnosis and control, I recognized how dangerous and harmful he was, and potentially is, to me. I now manage my contacts with him so he gets information I want him to think, that keeps me the safest. I kind of let him think that I am probably still pining away for him – for a bunch of reasons I believe that he is less of a threat if he feels like he has some control. Also, if he were to know I don’t want anything to do with him, I believe he would try to stir up a bunch of lies and drama at church (we attend different congregations of the same organization, but have some of the same ministers) and with friends and family, and try to get back with me. He enjoys making others miserable, and he’s like to get out of paying the alimony he has to pay. As long as he thinks I am suffering from his D&D and wish he would come back to me, he gets off enough on his perceived power and control that I expect he will stay away.
PS It’s likely to cause more problems for yourself if you mail his stuff to OW or ex wife. Spaths are skilled at turning it around to make you look like the crazy one. It’s almost always best to take the high road. My biggest regrets are when I lowered myself to my ex spath’s level and acted less than I know better to do.
What is best for you is what counts – and it’s probably to take the high road and return his stuff as quietly and efficiently as possible so you can move on as soon as possible. Remember, he wants you to be engaged and he wants drama.
Great advice, Annette. Thank you. I am just at a lose for words. Deep down, I knew but tried so damn hard to put it aside. Yes, he loves the drama. He feeds off of it. I know that I should not send the stuff back to his exwife. It will look like I am the crazy one. I just need to throw it away. It is not anything of value. It is a few of his things and a lot of things that he gave me. I don’t want them anymore and I don’t want the reminders.
I find this hard because I am doing NC but he is not trying to contact me at all. I often feel like “well, who is in control here?….. Me or him?”
I suppose he is sitting sighing with relief that at last I have given up bothering him and I have no avenue to tell him that the reality is that I don’t wat him to talk to me, contact me and I dotn want to engage with him in any way.
I know that if we meet, which we will, I don’t want to speak to him and he will interpret this as me being silly, unnecessary, evidencing that I was too attached to him etc, eat, etc.
I can’t win!!
But, on the other hand, I am healing, which is far more important…….. It’s just that deep inside me I want him to know how mad I am, how much I regrt ever having any dealings with him and how much I pity his wife!!!
I just pray every day that I won’t see him. The last time I saw him was over three weeks ago. Even though we chatted, all it did was make me feel worse. So, I would prefer to keep out of his way!!! Every day is a bonus!!
Elsa-
“No Contact” with a psychopath is like abstention if you’re an alcoholic. You don’t need to convince the bourbon that it’s toxic. And you don’t look at the bottle to achieve closure.
Sociopaths hook us into toxic relationships. They stir our brain chemistry like a drink affects brain function. While they don’t make us groggy or unhinged to the point that we’ll dance on a table with a lampshade on our head, they provide us with the seratonin, dopamine and oxytocin that cleave us to them. And going “cold turkey” is the means by which you can stop it. You are battling an addiction.
You have figured out that his being out of your life is best for you. Only your brain chemistry has yet to catch up to your decision. You are still concerned about what he thinks. The longer you go NC, the less you will care and the happier you will be that you got away.
Wishing you the best in your struggle to free yourself.
Joyce
Joyce, thank you for this. My brain has been flooded for over two years. He would discard me for a few days/weeks, just to the point where I was feeling better and BAM, contact me and all of the flooding would begin again. Totally addicted to him. The highest of highs and the lowest of lows.
I need to find a support group in my area that deals with this. I have a therapist but I don’t feel like it is enough.
Freedom15-
I may be able to help with a support group. Please let me know where you live. You can keep that information private by reaching me on my blog at http://www.StopRapeByFraud.com. The information form on the home page comes directly to my email address and is not disclosed on the site.
Joyce
Thank you, Joyce. 🙂
Elsa,
All of what you’re feeling is normal; and caring what another person feels and thinks, and bonding with another person, all work very well with normal people in normal relationships. Nothing works with spaths. You are so right that we cannot ‘win.’ There is nothing we can do to make things ‘right’ because the spath is working to make things wrong and miserable and trying to harm others.
The only way to ‘win’ is to get away and have a fulfilling life interacting with people who care about your well being and who appreciate all the good things you do and are.
I found it very difficult to encounter my ex spath. Even several years out, if I have some kind of ‘contact’ even just someone bringing him up in conversation, I am set back for several days. It’s been a slow road to recovery for me.
You are doing the right thing in getting away from him.
Annette, I haven’t seen or spoken to my ex for almost 4 years at this point, and I still have little setbacks even without contact. I have had this happen with certain movies we watched together, certain places, and once seeing a certain bottle of wine at the grocery store set off a bad trip down memory lane. The airport and being on planes is a trigger for me since we did a lot of traveling together. The first few flights I took without him were very, very difficult for me.
I know what you mean HanaleiMoon.
So I went back and re-did some of those memories. I did them DIFFERENTLY and made them my OWN. He couldn’t infect memories that had NO connection to him. And that way, I was able to move on with the travel that mattered to me and enjoy MY special places.
AnettePK,
Good words, so true. There is no winning with them. Nothing we say or do can fix it.
walking away is our ONLY solution.
Sad, but I guess not, since they are toxic.
AnnettePK and freedom15
Thanks AnnettePK for stepping in with reality and clarity to freedom15. I was being glib and didn’t notice that freedom15 might take me seriously.
I did cut up and burn a particular shirt of my ex-husband’s. But he didn’t know it. I did it here, 2000miles away. For me, it represented burning a bridge and helped me psychologically. I felt empowered. A symbolic gesture. It was a shirt I gave him, with all the feelings that went into that gift, which he misused to con me and took my gift and used it to harm me. So when I left, I took it back.
You are so correct Annette, that these type will misuse EVERYTHING so the best for freedom15 to do is box it up and arrange for him to pick it up or to be delivered… give him the choice of HOW/where but that his possessions will not remain in her home.
Once I realized what kind of monster my ex is, a sociopath, I never revealed my feelings or reality or life to him ever again. Knowing what he was made ALL the difference to me. And most importantly, knowing that NOTHING I did would ever make a difference was what I needed to cut my losses and find a new path in life.
Not,
Lighthearted and glib is good. Burning his things, if they don’t have value and she’s going to toss them anyway, could be cathartic.
I thought I’d offer some alternative thoughts; and I didn’t know if the spaths things in question had a lot of value or not.
AnnettePK
Even if they have no value, you know a sociopath will use the burning as proof of crazy woman. And yes, the private burning of a meaningful item of no $ value was very cathartic for me. My ex couldn’t know that I took that shirt because there were So many women with access to him that he’d never mention it to me because to do so would be to admit there were other women, something he denies, but also something that I have multiple proofs he’s an unfaithful scamming mindfarking, childhood stealing, ratbastard.
hanalei
Congratulations on your job…that is so great. My part time job turned into the best full time job I ever had. You are on the right path……
They leave us in financial and emotional ruin but they forget that we are strong women. Even though my ex threw everything possible in my way to detour me, I remained strong. Suddenly I was fearless of what was coming. Fear was not in my vocabulary any longer. For more than 20 years he instilled fear and weakness into me, but those times were over.
I also “destroyed” a shirt of his..it was his “pick up the minions” shirt. I never let him know that I cut it up but it felt good in the moment. My ex was using his uniform mostly for picking up his women for sex….I guess he always believed he was irresistible…..yuck….they can have him.
I will never have closure or an apology or an explanation for him being a pervert, for him discarding his family. My silence is my closure and that’s good enough for me.
I got an apology then to have him raise his voice to me and treat me like dirt again. Like he has the right to make all the rules. I am so sick of everyone in my life who think i need to buy into thier truth and that my truth is not good enough or the right truth. who do these people think they are. i blew up at my ex and he is no better than any of them. my daughter thinks what she does and thinks is better than what i view the situation as. its like i am to be a robot believe what they want, do what they want and never say a word back to them. I am sick and tired of being forced to behave the way they want. when i confront them they get all mad try to turn it around and try to change the subject. what a bunch of mind farking individuals. So when i speak up my ex says i am a mean person. I acted badly he said. yea bcs i called him on the carpet with his bull too. as far as my co worker, this is tough and yes the lies are the worst bcs being injured and having to believe someone elses lies that are the truth it is hard to sort through it. it is a whole other level of betrayal because it betrays you on your heart level then the mind level and against yourself to boot.
Kaya, InTM,
Yep…that betrayal. I read somewhere, he lied from hello to goodbye, and even after…
Time I guess, is my healer now.
Yes, and they lie about what they ate for breakfast and whether they love you or not.
and everything in between.
Yep, all of the above! They all need labotomies.
It’s not a real nor meaningful apology if he keeps doing what he ‘apologized’ for. It’s a fake apology to manipulate him into doing something he wants you to do, like keep interacting with him so he can hurt you again.
I found that I had more patience for people once I got rid of my ex psychopath and eliminated the extreme stress he was causing me. I also find that I don’t have as much tolerance for people’s BS and manipulation of me, and I try to kindly, politely, and assertively, protect my boundaries and take care of myself. Getting rid of the negative things, people, institutions, habits, pastimes, etc. in one’s life, makes room for good things.
Inthemiddle, I have to tell you that if they are all mad, turning it around on you and saying you are a bad person, it is because you are finally doing something right.
CONGRATULATIONS!
When you start to change (by standing up for yourself and refusing to be treated poorly), it really angers the people in your life who counted on you to accept their poor treatment, and they pull out the big guns to make you feel guilty. Don’t fall for that trick. One of my (I thought) closest friends said some really crappy things to me when I was at my lowest, and I just cowered. My therapist encouraged me to be honest with him, and tell him how he had hurt me”she hoped he would step up to the plate and apologize. It was very hard for me to be honest with him, but I was, and when I was, he turned on me with such force that it left me breathless – he had done nothing wrong and the fact that I was hurt was because I was immature, had no sense of humor, wasn’t going to the right church and in his opinion, had been seeing an incompetent therapist. When he took a breath, I said, I can no longer talk to you, goodbye and hung up. That was maybe 2 1/2 years ago and there has been no further contact.
When I told my therapist what happened, she said she was sorry because she thought he’d really step up to the plate, but that when the other person responds that way, you know you have hit the truth on the nose and they can’t take it so they turn it around on you. I had been there for this friend for almost 15 years, and the one time I needed a kind word”
You are starting to feel your strength. It is TOUGH to take a stand, but don’t let anyone get to you (maybe privately, and only for a few minutes)”these people expect you to take treatment without a word that they wouldn’t tolerate from another for a second. Yep, they have a vested interest in you being a robot, doing what they want and being around to be a doormat. They’re THREATENED now”good job!
Hanalei has put it far more eloquently than I ever could. Take her advice to heart.
It was tough for me to realize that most, if not all, of my relationships depended on me accepting shabby treatment in order to continue. I treated everyone with thoughtfulness, interest and care, and it wasn’t until after my ex discarded me and I went into therapy that I realized that I wasn’t getting much in return from anyone.
I think it is a Maya Angelou quote that says never to make someone a priority if you are only an option to them.
When I had the courage to ask for help (even so little as for someone to call and check in on me once in awhile) people fell away. Others, when I was no longer in a position to help them, fell away. It was scary!
Has anyone seen the documentary “Bully”? At one point the mom of the boy who is being bullied tells him these people who are mean to him are not his friends. He responds – but if they are not my friends, then I don’t have any friends.
This scene hit home with me and I cried like a baby.
A lot of us, me for sure, have a hard time accepting disapproval from others. We don’t want to disappoint. We don’t want people unhappy with us. We are flexible and accepting, generous, we are peacemakers. We want to preserve relationships at any cost. For some reason, we think others know better than we do. We become doormats in relationships.
When I went through the worst of my time and most of the people from my “old” life backed away and some I had to distance myself from. Not having them there felt scary, but really, what had I lost? Not much. Slowly, very slowly, a few new people came into my life, and they weren’t like the old people”they were more like me. I didn’t have to work to please them, or accept the unacceptable. These are true friends.
This process is hard, and takes real courage. I still have to work on it every day. It is so worth it, though.
I have have built a good relationship with my realtor, and when I was feeling doubts about the house, she said, if your gut is telling you this isn’t the right house, then cancel”you will not hurt my feelings, do what is right for YOU. Since I have cancelled, I have sensed a shift in her, a bit of a withdrawal, a bit of formality that wasn’t there before, and it is uncomfortable for me. My first thought was to fix it somehow but I said to myself, I have done nothing wrong. Maybe she’s got other things going on in her life that have nothing to do with me. Maybe I’m imagining it, because I feel (inappropriately) that by canceling I have disappointed people, let them down. Maybe is is miffed, but taking it to the extreme, is one supposed to buy a house they don’t want in order to avoid displeasing the realtor? (If I am honest with myself the real agony wasn’t not to buy the house – I knew it wasn’t right – but what people would think if I backed out and how would I justify it to them.)
You get my point. And in the immortal words of my therapist, you don’t have to justify your actions, or how you feel to anyone. None of us are people who are in any danger of acting cruelly or callously if we take care of ourselves.
Growth and transformation involve being uncomfortable. We need to learn to live with the discomfort when we start acting in our own best interests because it doesn’t feel natural to us”we’ve spent a lifetime accepting the unacceptable in order to avoid this feeling.
When it gets scary, or tough, or lonely we just need to keep going in the direction we know is right, and it will all be ok. It will be more than ok, it will be wonderful.
HM,
Ahh
thank you for those words.
HanaleiMoon
Regarding your real estate agent…
I don’t know if she was a friend before you went house hunting but all you describe sounds like the training of a real estate sales agent. The training is that people buy from people they like, so they are trained to establish trust relationships. Her words about “if your gut is telling you this isn’t the right house…” is straight out of customer management. It is meant to assure you, to take away the feelings of anxiety and doubt. I am sure she is disappointed to lose the commission on a sale that was so close. But don’t confuse the sales process with friendship. She is NOT being deceptive but she is using sale techniques to close the sale. So she might be pulling back a bit and looking at her own technique.
It is a good lesson though. Don’t let anyone guilt you into a purchase that your analysis says is not good for you. They don’t have to live with that contract. You do.
Thank you for your post. There’s so much wisdom.
“Never make someone a priority if you are only an option to them.” It’s good advice but for many of us, we didn’t know we were “options” until the ax fell, and even then, I didn’t realize I was an option because my ex kept telling me that I was misunderstanding, that the truth was he did not want to lose me (a LIE!). The problem was, OTHERS knew I was an option and LIED to me when I asked them what he was saying. But… once we know we are only one of their options, then it became clear to me that I had to be my priority because I sure wasn’t his.
I do also love the advice in your message, even if not directly expressed… to do the right thing for us EVEN IF it disappoints someone whose opinion matters to us BECAUSE if we make a choice based on whether they will be upset, it’s the WRONG reason to do whatever it is.
I HAVE PRINTED YOUR MESSAGE AND AM POSTING IT ON MY BATHROOM MIRROR. It is wisdom and strength. Thank you.
NWHSOM, I didn’t know that I was an option with my ex either”we had just bought a house together when the ax fell on me! But I was very guilty of knowing at heart that I was an option with some of my so-called friends and I have learned from that the hard way.
As for my realtor, we were not friends before this. I was working with another realtor (a man) who dumped me when I didn’t buy fast enough and passed me off to her. The dumping left a bad taste in my mouth, and I am sensitive. It is a professional relationship, and you gave me a good reminder that it is all sales technique and I shouldn’t be taking anything personal.
I’m sure she IS disappointed that she didn’t get the commission on the sale, but she knows she will get the commission when I DO buy. There is no one, and I mean NO ONE who was more disappointed than me that I cancelled, since my No. 1 priority is getting settled in a permanent home and moving forward. I am not that hell bent on it that I’m going to buy something I don’t want, though!
If there was any way to buy without having a realtor represent me, I’d be doing it. Ugh.
Well, i dont feel so alone. I am friendless here and heartbroken at the same time. I still want the NP even though he is still married bcs i know he is not being faithful even though he says he is. I dont want a relationship just the attention and the feeling that I got when i was with him. being so lonely and feeling that feeling and never having it before is why i am so attracted to him. it is also the betrayal/trauma bond as well. i am so overwhelmingly sad. i dont and really didnt have a relationship with my ex. i tolerated and accepted what he gave me bcs i didnt think anything more of myself. my daughter has seen her dad who i never married beat me and treat me like dirt. I have the guys i work with being total a holes and my NP who just viewed me as weak and insignificant. I had a friend who i was helping but when i wanted to just hang out and be friends he didnt want that because he had a person he was doing things with that I didnt want to do and he liked it me just being his errand person. This is a really hard place in my life. i hate that i am alone with no where to go as of yet and dealing with the emotional roller coaster every day. I want closure with NP and to forget and not be jealous of Amanda. I am jealous of everyone for that matter. I have one friend who really is an acquaintance says i need to love and like myself. the problem is i dont like me or anything about me bcs i know how others feel abt me. i dont have anyone who acts like im special or says things abt me that are positive. So im just stuck right now and dont feel like doing anything. The only i get from anyone is if they want something, NP wants to be friends with me and my ex and daughter who knows with either of them. I want something real in my life for once.
Your acquaintance is right. You do need to love and like yourself. That sounds like a wise person whose friendship you should cultivate. Once you love and like yourself, others will be attracted to you as well – and not as a doormat.
I am not speaking figuratively when I tell you to go look into the mirror and say “Self, I love you!” Eventually you will start to believe it, even if you don’t right now. But you have to do it, every time you are alone in front of a mirror. Whisper it, shout it, sing it… and one day you will wonder why you ever doubted it.
It sounds like you are getting a lot of clarity about what you feel is wrong in your life, and what you want things to be like. The next step is figuring out how to get where you want to be. There are a lot of resources available to help figure out and accomplish changes in our lives.
You may find that your outlook and goals will change as you move through this period of introspection.
Feelings of anger and even jealousy can be powerful catalysts to make necessary changes.
inthemiddle, what does your therapist say about how you are feeling? I am really concerned about you. The things you are saying point to clinical depression and your therapist can guide you in that.
Although I know you have many reasons why you can’t, it seems to me that in the end, you will need to move along from this job to help you free yourself from this man. There are many things we think we can’t do, but it is a choice. I have been there.
I am concerned because I have never heard you say you are doing anything to make yourself feel better, not even the smallest of things. Please be open and honest with your therapist so that she can help you move forward. Please call a crisis line if you are feeling hopeless. Open your heart to the help others can give you. You are worth it!
I am not worried about being alone without a guy, i wish i had a friend one who be in front of me not to speak about the crap but someone who truly valued me as a person. I am depressed and have been most of my life i just didnt know it. I was so busy trying to make everyone like me, try to fit in, to be good, to be this or that it distracted me from seeing that i am depressed. I have days when i wish i wouldnt wake up bcs the pain is so bad. I cant even conceive why another human being would inflict this kind of pain on someone else. Like i was a bad person. I dont want to deal with the pain anymore. I really cant leave this job as i am in my mid 40’s and to make the salary i make and benefits that i have its not there. Believe me I have tried. I cant kick my daughter off my insurance yet as she is still in college and I still get child support so my hands are kind of tied to some extent. I think the reason i feel such overwhelming pain abt my NP is bcs i never had anyone say the things he said to me, do the things he did and make me feel like i was special. never in my life has anyone put me first. i have put everyone else first. I re read the narcissist letter and i am really trying to move away from him. I am doing emdr, counseling with a individual counselor and counseling with a church person associated with my divorce care group on top of going to addiction meetings for those people who are in addictive relationships. I cant do anymore except find a way to put my brain to sleep. I wish it was a switch to turn off because believe me the pain is awful. I cry every day every day. if its not over him it over my ex or my daughter or realizing i was used in every interaction with another human being so yes i am depressed and sad because no one wants to feel like that they were used by everyone.
Thank you for sharing. I can relate to much of what you describe as a result of the spath betrayal. When I was widowed (my first husband was a good guy), I cried daily for almost a year. After the spath experience I was in a very dark place for a couple of years.
It does get better, but it takes a lot of hard work to make the changes needed, and just plain to work through the grief. It sounds like you have a lifetime of grief to work through.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things for yourself
Sorry, my mouse is whacky lately and keeps triggering enter when I’m still in the middle of my comment…here’s the complete version….
Thank you for sharing. I can relate to much of what you describe as a result of the spath betrayal. When I was widowed (my first husband was a good guy), I cried daily for almost a year. After the spath experience I was in a very dark place for a couple of years.
It does get better, but it takes a lot of hard work to make the changes needed, and just plain to work through the grief. It sounds like you have a lifetime of grief to work through.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things for yourself, and considering your options with respect to your job and your relationship with your daughter, etc.
I remember being in the absolutely beyond miserable, unbearably painful place you are. It does get better, and you will feel better, because you are doing things to help yourself and you will protect yourself from being exploited and harmed in the future, now that you know.
I remember wishing there were a switch to turn off the pain. I never found it, but some things that helped me ease the pain were to make gratitude list of the blessings I do have, to consider those who are considerably less fortunate. I was thankful that I have the problems I have living in the US, instead of a war torn part of the world like the Middle East or Africa.
I tried to do something to distract myself from my own thoughts – activities I enjoyed, activities involving others, whatever works for you. Call a (real) friend or relative, learn to play the guitar, write a poem, refinish a piece of furniture. I didn’t feel like doing anything, but once I pushed myself to get started, it helped. Join a community choir, or sailing club, or volunteer at the local PBS station, or just clean your house thoroughly, sew or knit something, take a class in something you’re interested in, etc. etc. Getting exercise is very helpful, too.
I found balancing my grieving with doing other things from time to time was helpful.
My faith and spiritual practices helped me.
I also listened to this deprogramming audio suggestion tape daily for a couple of years – it was a great non chemical way to retrain my brain and get over the spath experience faster. This was probably one of the most helpful things for me. If EMDR is helping you, this may help you, too.
Sample here: http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/guided-relaxation-for-repairing-the-aftermath-of-pathological-love-relationships
You will feel better.
HM
Your analogy to the house and your S/N is fantastic and worth keeping on hand. Those are very wise words
I noticed you said you still have moments when you think of your ex and have setbacks. Unfortunately I do too and it’s good to hear someone else does as well. I have him blocked but this past wkd I’ve been thinking of just unblocking him to see if he messages. I wouldn’t reach out to him but just am curious if he’s looking to contact me. Certain little things trigger as well like an airport or airplane, because of the many times he’d travel here and the excitement of picking him up at the airport. Or a particular area in the city where we spent alot of time I find difficult to go by. I was doing well but I am finding myself a bit down and reminiscent the past week. It’s just a hump I will get over, but happy to hear I’m not the only one who has setbacks, especially from someone like you who is very strong and great with your words 🙂
janedoe, I wouldn’t unblock him – I think it’s just playing with fire. I wouldn’t be sure how I would react, and think it would be opening a can of worms that might not be able to be stuffed back in.
I’m glad you like the analogy of the house with the relationship”it suddenly came to me like a lightbulb going off over a cartoon character’s head and was a real aha moment. I was seduced by those gleaming hardwood floors and the warranty on the new roof and”was in danger of not seeing the forest for the trees.
Dangit, I wanted that house. But I know there will be another one and it WILL be the right one and I’ll think back and think so glad I passed on that other one! Just.need.patience…
HM
you wanted that house (a man) but you knew in your gut you should not take it, something was holding you back,,,another one ( a man) will surely come along and you won’t have that nagging feeling that something is going to go wrong with the house and you will know when its the right time, just by your gut telling you to do it”i love how you have put this”
and yes patience, we need patience and now we have the knowledge not to let something appealing or something that feels good, take over our minds and feeling and we have patience, you will be a much happier woman!!!
janedoe, although I am afraid I will never find another house (man haha) as good as that one each day that goes by I’m thinking about that house less and leaving it in the past. I’m doubly proud of myself for letting go so easily!
I believe that you WILL find a house BETTER than that one…a house without all the problems. A good house is only a good house if it is solid and safe, and does not cost you a mint to bring up to par on the back end. The negatives that it will cost you to “repair” it takes away from the goodness. Kinda like a car…or a relationship (as you suggested). On the other hand, if you LOVE the house and see all the problems and go into it with eyes wide open, then you might truly be able to make it into your dream house. A house is different than a psychopath…it CAN be fixed! (smile)
HM
you will find another house (forget the man!!!) when you aren’t expecting it”.those are the best kind!!!
i guess with time and learning it does get easier to let go what doesn’t feel right”yay to you!!!
dear JaneDoe
Please don’t unblock him.
This is a form of Schrodingers cat. Either way is bad news for you.
Either he has messaged you, which sabotages you b/c then the door cracks open, “maybe he really does care!” (no he doesn’t. his motivation is to use you, as long as he doesn’t have someone else to use.)
OR he has not messaged you, which sabotages you b/c then you are flooded with, “he doesn’t care” (which is true because his motivation is ONLY to USE you, as long as he doesn’t have someone else to you.)
Stay NC. It’s not for him. It’s for YOU. A method to freeing yourself from a toxic terrible missing humanity maladjusted non curable THING.
NWHSOM
i guess i was feeling reminiscent the past few days because the last we spoke before i blocked him, he tried to lure me into spending the week with him (this would be the time we would have been together right now) so i was feeling down..today is a little bit better, i haven’t unblocked him or contacted him but rather have convinced myself why would anyone want anything to do with a psychotic a**hole! if he can treat the woman he left me for so horribly by talking behind her back and saying the stuff he says about her”there is such a problem with him”i want to believe he has mental issues that go deep that cause him to be the way he is and i don’t want someone who tries to make himself feel good by contacting me and spitting all over his wife”its wrong, disgusting and his problems are way too deep for me to deal with”yuck!!! (now i have to keep that thought going in my head at all times!!)
wow i fell for such a damaged person i can not comprehend how his new wife hasn’t seen it yet, although he did tell me last we spoke, she isn’t as perceptive as i am and would never figure out half the things i have figured out about him..
thanks N xx
And thanks to you, too, NWHSTM. You have probably seen my recent message that I am being pressured to open contact and be someone I am not, which I know in my heart will not work for me. It took me a long time to have the strength to maintain no contact, and now I don’t want to lose it….even if I have to fight someone else’s opinion of me to protect my no contact. Life can be so complicated, and everyone has their own agenda for telling us what to do. Sometimes it feels like lose-lose either way!
In the middle,
They absolutely have no conscience or empathy. He will not reason with you in any way, ever.
Having no conscience means they have no internal policeman to cause them to stop before they lash out to do something malicious or vindictive, and when they do, they’ll do it without any need for justification and without remorse, afterwardS. In their minds, it will be OUR fault, that they needed to hurt us and we deserve whatever they dish out.
NO CONTACT is the only way to be absolutely sure that they don’t know what we do and what we think and that we give them no information to allow them to feel entitled to launch an all out assault on us in a way they believe will hurt us most. we do know that their egos are fragile and they’ll be suspicious of our desire for contact, knowing we’ve been wounded.
Contacting the other women/minions/affair partners in an attempt to save her from what we’ve experienced, or for whatever reason, or exposing the Narcissist to friends and family members, or calling or texting or Facebook posting that the Narcissist is what we know he is, will be perceived by him as a good reason to come back into our lives and finish the destruction he began. We’re out now and we need to stay out by maintaining No Contact, no matter how much satisfaction or closure we think we might get by exposing him.
Going no contact is a decision to make so we can save ourselves from additional or further pain and destruction. In my case, I tried for over 20 years to reason with him to no avail. When his path of destruction began, he planned it out to every detail, I found a list. Number one stated: “Send her to a mental institution for a mental eval…this will make her look crazy in the divorce”. There were about 10 items on that list. He left in such a rush and forgot his list. It is his handwriting..and he planned it for months before the discard. For us, it was a sudden situation, but for them it was planend, calculated and carried out.
Kaya,
Thanks again, I needed this today, about why we maintain nc- and how it is not worth it to expose them. I find it difficult to get over the pathological lying part the most, because I didn’t know it at first. Verbal or physical abuse is direct and obvious, and can be dealt with…the lie of the whole thing is hard to move past.
Remembertoforget
yes!! like you i have a problem with the pathological lying, i think even more than the cheating. that means he has lied about not just cheating, but many other things as well! one thing i demand in a relationship is honesty..just be honest with me and when i ask something, tell me the truth”we can work much better together if honesty is respected”
i said this to him so many times while he sat there agreeing with me, although i knew he was lying! lol
my stomach was always in knots when i spoke with him but i figured it was butterflies”i now know that i was anxious all the time because i never knew what he was going to say each day when we spoke because whatever he said i would dwell on and analyze each word and try to figure out why i always doubted him”i was forever second guessing anything he said..because he lied sooo much!!
Wow. JD
I thought butterflies too at first. So much anxiety. Never able to get to that settling in to the relationship stage. No way. God, I can only imagine how far it could have gone. There would have been nothing left of me to salvage.
remembertoforget
the first three years together he caused me so much anxiety that i lost weight just from worrying all the time…
–how come he isn’t answering me, did he lie to me just now, is he really going to do groceries, why hasn’t he written back since he went to do groceries its been 6 hours–
there was always something! now that the anxiety has subsided so much i don’t have that feeling…i guess thats a good way to recognize when your gut is telling you something!
kaya48,
I’ve been following your story for a better part of a year, but still! He had a list and #1 was “send her to a mental institution….” It’s so unbelievable to think men like this exist and that you were married to such an evil person. I know he succeeded in accomplishing #1 on his list (hopefully not all of it?).
I still have a hard time wrapping my brain around it all. I want to think of them as disordered and not calculated. Still, I know the truth. 2 spaths for me back to back. My first one stalked me and planned before we even went on our first date. Proof. Gross proof.
Remember to forget
Yes, for me it was also the lies…it was a huge inflict of pain and hurt onto me. The crazy making and the lies….
Even after I was discarded I was fed lie after lie. He still did not come “clean” and he never will. For the first three months after he left, I was hoping for the truth, for an apology, for an explanation. I am the mother of his only child, and he wiped those 20 years away like they never existed. It is bad enough that they bear the title of “Cheater”, but it also makes them “Liars”. Cheating cannot occur without deceit on some level. Cheating and Lying go hand in hand.
My ex tried to damage my precious self-esteem. (I was the one he promised to love). He rocked the foundation we created for our child. He basically destroyed it. He subjected me (the one he promised to love) to STD’s. While I thought I was 100 percent safe with him, he played with my health. Luckily I am ok, but just the fact for him to take my life into his hands, is unacceptable. He tried to declare me mentally ill, even though as a cop he had no medical background at all. He accused me of not taking my mental health medication as prescribed. (even though I never had a prescription for other than high blood pressure). He wanted to destroy me completely so he would have full access to his assets and child. He did not succeed….actually it backfired. I was awarded higher alimony because of the “age, physical and emotional condition of the wife”.
At one point I started not to care any more. I listened to my attorney and there were no more emotions, no more love, no more nothing. And to this day there is NOTHING I miss about this guy.
And when people now say “Oh, this poor guy has to pay you so much money every month, and his son does not even care about him one bit”, I just smile and walk away…if they only knew.
“Honesty is of God and dishonestly of the devil; the devil was a liar from the beginning.”
Kaya,
I was reading back in time on this thread, I forgot who was saying, but how generations ago parents and people used to warn us that there are sick evil people out there….it did die down I feel, those warnings, in the more recent generations.
:/
I wasn’t warned. I was probably being aquaintences with them in my 20’s and now at 40 I got burned and took a look around and cut that network off.
Life lessons.
Mid-life awakening.
Remember
So true what you said. Yes, I feel the same. Now, at almost 50, I believe there are truly evil people around us…I would have never believed my own husband was one of them. And there so many warning signs, which I ignored over the years, because of fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of being a single mom, fear of losing everything. I used to have dreams about losing my home, my husband….it all came true. But God worked it out for the good. God wanted to save my sanity and my life…I did not leave my husband , so there was only one way…take him out of my life and give him the minions he so much desired. He was not able to resist them, no way. He needed someone sexy, hot and young next to him…to make him feel good. It did not matter to him that it cost him his family.
Now I know that I do not want a man who is capable of lying into my face as my friend, partner, father of my son or husband….the minions can have him.
Kaya,
If your ex spath is like most of them, young and sexy isn’t as important to him as triangulating with anyone he can to hurt others for power and control. He probably doesn’t particularly value ‘young and sexy’ (what could possibly be sexy about a woman who is willing to sleep with another woman’s husband?) It’s likely he would and probably does bring other women in against whatever ‘young and sexy’ he is victimizing at any given time.
Spaths use whatever is convenient to hurt their victims – it just happens that for women our age (I’m in my mid 50’s), younger is something we can’t possibly compete with, so they use that. If you, the victim, happens to be young, it would be something else that the spath would use to make you feel bad. My ex spath was always creating impossible problems for me to solve and then blaming me for not solving them.
Consider that your ex spath really doesn’t care so much about ‘young and sexy,’ as much as using it to hurt you. If it wasn’t that, it would be something else – whatever vulnerabilities the spath perceives.
I look like I’m in my mid 50’s, and I wouldn’t want to look 30 years younger – it would be silly and wouldn’t fit in my life. My friends of both genders who are my age look like we’re supposed to look at our age, and I fit in just fine. I have a feeling you are probably more attractive than you realize you are (for what it’s worth, because who really cares what people look like once you get to know them?) because of what your ex did and what he did it with.
In my experience, people who ‘look’ all hot, sexy and young, often aren’t all that hot beyond the image.