UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
My dear friends….although I have never met any of you face to face, I feel closer to you than people I have known for years. And it’s because you truly UNDERSTAND. I keep trying to block my spath from emailing me, but I am doing something wrong because her messages keep getting through. Another message today telling me only that she loves me. She must know that these messages destroy me! I am shaking and on the verge of tears. My husband told me to tell her to go f… herself, and that would be enough to give her the message to stay away. But I don’t believe it would! I think that just the mere writing of a message to her would open up Pandora’s box again. It would give her hope that I am talking to her again after 6 weeks of no contact, NO MATTER WHAT THE CONTENT OF MY MESSAGE is. I moved 1000 miles away, but I live in fear that she will find a way to show up at my door someday. She must remain in Kentucky per the court, but thieves and liars have no strong obligation to obey the law! And she admitted to me that she use to be an enforcer for drugs, and she killed when she had to. I am becoming a basket case with worry. I told my therapist about it today, and he said that if she shows up here….to lock all the doors, get on this site IMMEDIATELY, and call the police if she doesn’t leave. I have a measure of peace when there is no contact, and I truly believe that the advice to go f… herself is WRONG! I need some advice from wise people who have been here….
I broke no contact last month via email after 6 weeks NC. DON’T DO IT! Not worth it. Pandora opened up, only I was too depressed and sick to engage back. I did the gray rock method.
He kept messaging me, he is spammed it’s my old address.
I haven’t responded in weeks and stopped checking the spam.
I think I figured it out! I set up a rule so that anytime an email message came in with her name on it, to immediately delete it. Hopefully it will work this time. My husband keeps telling me that if I talk rough to her, so will get the message. I argued that she would just use the newly opened dialogue to question why I haven’t responded. He said THEN I could stop answering. But I agree with Kaya48…I know how I will feel if the above happens, and I don’t want to feel that way. Which means that there is no point to opening Pandora’s box. It seems every time I start to feel a little better, something re-hooks me.
Never,
I don’t know the background, but it’s well established that spaths enjoy drama and pushing buttons to get a reaction, so any kind of emotionally loaded response to a spath is likely to escalate their harassment.
I also suggest that you consider not deleting the messages, but rather saving them in a folder (without reading if they are upsetting you) in case the stalking continues or escalates and you need them for legal evidence.
If you choose to respond, write a short, matter of fact, (no emotions nor insults), sentence stating that you request that she not contact you again. Do not give reasons or state how you feel nor elaborate in any way, as that just provided material to argue with.
Greyrock technique is the only method that ‘works’ to affect a spath’s behavior. http://www.lovefraud.com/2012/02/10/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/
Neveragain, hang in there, you are doing great! I’m glad you figured out how to rig your email!
Opening Pandora’s box will come to no good for you, and I am pretty sure that no rough talk will cause her to get the message”it will only open you to communication. I know first hand how it can escalate when you do communicate, since my last communications with my ex were through email. He’d say something and I’d rebut it. Then he’d respond and I couldn’t help myself but to try to make sense of it and rebut again. In no time, he was occupying all my thoughts and the emails had escalated to nothing but bad, badder and baddest.
Don’t do it!
Anette PK
thank you so much for this comment. It makes total sense for me. I used to “beat” myself up, because I am almost 50 and she is 20 something.. But you are absolutely right. I know she was “available” and yes what is sexy about a woman who sleeps with married men? To me she was always a prostitute. He would take her on cruises, dinners and bought her things, and she paid or pays him with sex…..
And yes, I look my age and do not mind it. I sure don’t want to be 20 something again and relive this horrible marriage. Also, he is almost 50 also and there is nothing sexy about a 50 year old with a “teenager” next to him….I know her age feeds and fulfils his insecurities….until he gets tired of her and new supply comes along. A counsellor once told me even if I was Miss America he still would have devalued and discarded me…so true.
Your comment just assured me again, that it was him and only him who destroyed this marriage…Thanks Anette…
That was good how Anette explained it.
This site- you guys are the only thing helping me now. Last time I saw my therapist a month ago or so, before I felt the big depression she just said, well, don’t hang out with disordered people, and then later about my ex- she just said, either you learn or you don’t.
I get it, but that’s not enough support for me now.
Hmph.
Thank you for sharing the “gray rock” technique. I never heard of it before but I can see how it could be very effective. I will think about it and pray about it. For right now, I think NC is still best for me.
Yes, these good people are my lifeline right now. Those of us who post here know better than anyone else our hooks and vulnerabilities. Others, like my husband, think being tough solves everything. But it is like the mouse going against the eagle….no matter how tough the mouse is…he is going to lose because the eagle is more prepared for the fight. Or like a two-year old normal child telling you how to program your computer. My husband is telling me what has always worked for him…that being tough scares off the enemy. But it’s like he doesn’t even understand who he is married to, because someone who is just learning how to be tough stands no chance against someone who has been tough their whole life. I just read about the gray rock technique, and I can understand the potential that it represents. And when I am afraid that she will break parole and show up at my door and possibly harm me, becoming boring is one way to disinterest her. It is a good plan. But I don’t think I can handle communication right now with her, even if it is designed to be boring. It is too big a stretch. And insulting her will not scare her off. I think, at least for now, that no contact remains my best bet.
I find it amazing that my therapist suggested that I come HERE when I am feeling vulnerable.
Never,
Here’s something else that might help you. It’s a high quality risk assessment questionnaire. It’s fairly extensive, and helps to organize one’s thoughts and the information you have to determine
(whoops, hit return by mistake…) continued:
the risk your stalker might pose. It uses sound statistical data to develop sound guesses as to what the stalker might do. It also helps you think about things you might be overlooking. It helped me think rationally about my ex P.
https://www.mosaicmethod.com/
I thank you for the link to the risk assessment; however I was unable to open it. It brought me to this website but not to the assessment.
Maybe I copied the wrong link. Hopefully this will work.
https://www.mosaicmethod.com/
neveragain,
AnnettePK sent me this assessment when I was dealing with my first spath (I was under a different name then). It’s lengthy but VERY informative. Put a lot of things in perspective for me at that time. I highly recommend it. Thanks, Annette!
Jane Doe,
you worded it so correctly. My last years with my ex husband caused me so much anxiety also. A year before I was discarded I had found the picture exchange between the co worker and him. After that, every time he left the house or came home late, I knew it was a lie….but I denied it. I denied the truth, I denied reality. I played detective every minute of my day, I was not able to sleep, I was a Zombie. Of course it was all lies…. it was not picture exchanging, it was a full blown affair. I don’t think there is ever a “going back” after the trust is broken. Trust is based on truth. And love is based on trust. If there is no truth, there is no trust, no love. I tried with all my heart to save that marriage. Deep down I knew there was nothing to save. My son and I we were just extensions of him. Nothing valuable, nothing important. Once he was exposed to all of his lies, he left. Of course, I was a useless object…thrown in the garbage like a Mc Donalds paperbag.
I still remember the day I found the nude photos….I called him at work and told him. His answer was “I want you out of the house by Saturday, you are mentally insane.” Shifting the blame on me.
Isn’t it great not having the duty of playing detective, not wondering where he is going, what he is doing, what blow or lie is coming next? For me it has been an empowering, freeing experience. The pounding in my head is gone for good, no more anxiety, fast heart rates, panic attacks, sleepless nights, crying, begging. Now, I wake up and thank God that he is out of my life for good.
This website has tremendously helped me in my recovery, in my healing. Because we all were married, dated , or were in a relationship with the same guy…..just a different name.
Kaya,
HE did for you what you couldn’t do yourself…
Blessing in disguise?..
kaya
funny how when playing detective, i would have those knots in my stomach, almost like i knew right around the corner i was going to find something”the day finally came when i had enough of the looking for things because it consumed my whole day!! three years of this, when i had a free moment i was searching for anything”in fact, i made sure i had a free moment, which then turned to hours, just so i could look up the crap that was going on behind my back..it was like an obsession. one day i said if i am going to continue this relationship i have to stop doing this, it isn’t good. so i stopped and for awhile i was better but had that nagging feeling all the time. little did i know there was a name to this!! i never ever would have thought this was related to S or N and thank god for this site and all the people who are dealing with it to be able to help console each other or see that someone is dealing with the exact same crap that i had been!
of course your captain america shifted the blame on you and called you mentally insane”because he was cornered by YOU!!!! he lost his empowerment and control, what else could he say”stupid, idiots!!! Opportunist is another good word for these smooth talking creeps!
Remember,
exactly… I was discarded but at the same time it was a blessing. How about you? Were you married a long time, do you have children?
Kaya,
No no, no marriage, and no kids…of course he blabbed about getting married.
My wacky story is there, letter to love fraud…nothing made sense.
Also, now i’m re reading about how abusers hate women. Lol. So simple to figure out, yet they pretend to like and love us, and condition the partner. So weird. I guess because they have no real emotions that’s why the charm comes off so over the top at first. If I hadn’t had a previous 7 year relationship with a non abuser, I probably would have stayed alot longer and not known better. I only lasted 9-10 months and I was a zombie!
Remembertoforget,
I’m happy you noticed the signs so early. Even with all the crazy making and nonsensical stuff it can be easy to overlook! Or to just put up with it…
I was in a relationship with 2 spaths back to back. The first one overt, the second one covert. If it hadn’t been for my first spath, I don’t think I would’ve recognized #2 for years possibly. He’s definitely a pro! He was pressuring me to buy a house with him. Thank GOD I escaped when I did! Never thought I’d say this, but…thank you spath #1!!
See how that works!
It’s all crazy.
His ex was with him for 10 years and had 2 babies with him. She was 19 when they hooked up and 20 by her first child.
She escaped far away. I thought about her alot.
I can imagine you thought about her a lot! 19…poor girl at the time had no clue what she was getting into! I feel blessed to be in my mid thirties and have figured it out. I think all of us on here are all miracles in a way…figuring it out. Spath #2 has everyone fooled! Including friends of mine. Friends he wasn’t even that close to. At least I know the truth and can take care of me.
So happy your ex’s ex got away…..and that you did as well. 🙂
Thistoo,
He has people fooled too. He is slick. Mutual friends said he is amazing..so sweet!!!!! I want to blast him so bad but I won’t. He will turn it all around. He is pure evil!
Remember,
Yes, he is so sweet, so kind and so funny…he was the perfect man, how could you?! I’m with you, I want to blast so bad!! If only you could hear me blast in my own privacy about him! I’m sure you can relate. 🙂
What I’m having a hard time with, is it’s not just mutual friends but MY friends, including my best friend. We dated a couple of times, this past time for 8 months. He only hung out with my friends over a handful of times. The more I’ve tried to defend myself to them the more “crazy” they think I am. Doesn’t help that he’s told them it’s all in my head. I have now gone NC with them as well. What a mind F***! It hurts.
Thistoo,
Wow, I had to go no contact with some “friends” and cut out my best friend of 20 yrs. She is a partially recovered addict.
Ouch!
I feel your pain on all that!
ThisT,
I didn’t know what it all was when I was in it. I was in deep and going mad. I’ve been reading everything since January…I just figured it all out bit by bit recently. Ugh.
Remember,
Reading up on abuse and spaths is key! Like you, I started putting the pieces together. With my first spath I didn’t even realize I had been abused until after a few discards and I said NO more! In my reading I discovered how bad he was. I once called him the Devil, turns out that’s what he was!
Ironically, 8 months into my relationship with my 2nd spath (he seduced me shortly after the 1st one) I bought books on sociopaths/psychopaths to better understand the process I had been through with #1. During this time #2 started revealing his true colors. It was in my reading I had an Aha moment, or rather several Aha moments. I was in yet another relationship with a spath! This one just happened to be more skilled. If it weren’t for reading and my first spath experience I think I would have been with #2 for years before recognizing what he was up to. And to think I was a mere month from buying a house with him, which he was pressuring me to do!
Reading saved me. I’m still putting the pieces together….
Thistoo,
That’s crazy how that unfolded for you during the time with #2… reading to understand #1.
I find it creepy that after the first few months, I started googling stuff, because I felt like something just wasn’t right, I could tell by the way the arguments went, however I couldn’t put my finger on it. So many eerie things said, and didn’t even know yet.
It’s been 3 months since the breakup, I figured it out AFTER, lol, but still putting pieces together as well.
Geez.
Remember,
Your GUT was telling you something, which is why you started googling him! My gut screamed at me during my first spath! Like you, it wasn’t until after that I realized. #2 preyed on me while I was weak…my instinct was weak. Although looking back I still had so many feelings that things weren’t right. He brainwashed the hell out of me and it was so easy for him. Not hard considering what I had been through…and still going through. #1 stalks me to this day, although he’s laid off a lot and keeps silent for longer amounts of time. Not hard for #2 to seduce me when I’m still being traumatized over and over from the stalking. That was his out. Anything that sparked a reaction he could put on my ex. He was also my “protector”. Ha! That always made me uncomfortable…
I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to put all the pieces together. So many lies, crazy making and brainwashing.
My counselor says that no matter if all of us think on here that we won’t meet another spath, there’s still a possibility we will, HOWEVER we will know the signs through reading and support much earlier. I of course am hoping for the best, but if another monster comes, I will recognize the signs much earlier!
How are you doing 3 months out? I’m now NC 3 weeks and it’s been so hard!! Even knowing what he is. WE can do this!!!
Thistoo,
My gut was screaming at me, I told him first time we hung out-you are a force. Ughh. I was too vulnerable and depressed when I hooked up with him. I was staying at my moms, inbetween places, and just lost 2 close friends!!! I was a mess lol.
3 months out, but I broke no contact Mar.17 by responding to an older email. I was at the peak-or worst of my depression, and I saw right away his language and did the gray rock method- he was trying to push but I had no energy. I know it would be a losing battle. I haven’t responded since. 🙂
I just heard he commented on a girls fb post about loyalty n he went on a loong response, lol about being dropped so fast…..blablabla. Poor victim, rope em’ in!
Meaning- him playing victim that is….roping em in.
Remember,
Congrats on the NC! We are closer to a month then back at the beginning again!
Both our ex’s preyed on us while we were down. How pathetic of them! I heard you loud and clear the first time when you said “rope ’em in!” I totally understand!
My first did that and as for my 2nd…he was in an abusive relationship before (poor guy) and it turns out I’m abusive! Not to mention insecure, hyper sensitive, paranoid and crazy! He has also been more than happy to share that with the world, including my friends! Fortunately for me I am none of those things. Especially an abuser.
Now that I think about it…I am paranoid, just not in the way he says I am. It’s a struggle not to be paranoid…#1 stalking me, him telling me the ways he will stalk me in the future.
Our poor, poor ex’s…they are such victims. 🙂 And people buy this stuff! Guess you can’t blame them, we did too….
Remember,
Just thought I’d add on that I understand depression and how bad it can get. I understand how seeking help can save lives (like yours and mine). I was doing much better and feeling good following #1 until I spent the holidays with #2. I was sleep deprived and he was pulling out all the stops. I didn’t realize it at that time. I did notice I was depressed so I slightly upped a med I’ve been on for a while. According to him, that’s when I became hyper sensitive, paranoid and insecure. Sure, that’s it…when in fact the meds helped me see and think more clearly. Thank GOD!
Remember,
I’m replying on a previous post because I couldn’t on our other one. I read your comment again. Gotcha, ex #1.
In my experience with spath 2, he still communicates with two ex’s. One being his ex wife of four years who is a lesbian and married to a woman now. I don’t think she saw what he was in his time with her. He also has an ex girlfriend who he wasn’t with for long. They are now BFFs. For him it’s about duping and control, control, control. I see that now. It’s fun for him to keep both of them clueless and in his life.
Sometimes even years with a person isn’t enough for them to see. I recently discovered a coworker of mine is with a spath. It took her 14 yrs to realize….
Ah, see I thought those things. They were young and partying so maybe she doesn’t know. As for child’s mother, I don’t know if she knows what he is, but she endured enough for 10 years and two babies by 23 yrs old. She was 19 and no car far from home met him at work. He is 12 yrs older than her.
I knew of him from back in the day when he was with ex 1. I don’t really remember him though- i’m sure I walked right past him.
If he did anything to child’s mother like he did to me…..wow. she didn’t work all those years. He controlled i’m sure. During the breakup it hit me- he doesn’t even care about her, or his kids I BET!
Thistoo,
That sucks you are still paranoid from #1 continuing his stalking….bleh.
I was too at first, he would call my job after I changed my #, the last time I answered (called from a diff #) and he says HI!!! Wtf-
Are u kidding me nutjob? I put my boss on and he stopped. I know he won’t stalk me in person- I figured him out, he’s a phone, text, typing stalker.
I hope u aren’t in danger…
I cut everyone off- small world. New world for me nowadays.
I did get on meds and it saved my life. Whew…I can function and be a human again, not the zombie I had came to be from having the vampire suck my life out- my spirit.
I seriously felt after for a while like he put a spell or hex or whatever on me! Eeeew Eeechhhh.
Remember,
It’s because he did put a spell/hex on you! Only in the creeper way via brainwashing and gas lighting! I’m so happy you are feeling more human again and doing better. Judging from your messages, you are n a strong place considering and seeing things for what they are.
As for danger…yes, I’m in danger. I have enough home security you would think I live in a museum! Cameras, the whole nine yards. #1 threatened to kill me when I wouldn’t give our relationship another chance. The police did not take me seriously. I had to leave town for a little while, he got mutual friends involved, harassed me, unknown numbers called constantly, he somehow managed to change an account of mine, created new accounts in my name, uses strangers to get to me, etc. The ways go on and on. Not to mention it turns out he stalked me for years before pursuing me. So gross.
I think #2 has just threatened to stalk to get in my head. Time will tell. My counselor has done a ton of safety planning with me and has suggested a big move with additional safety planning more than once (to be safe from both). I’m not ready at this point. She is respecting my decision and encourages me to take the time I need.
I hear you on your New World! I’m on my 3rd new phone number. I was harassed endlessly on social networking, no matter how private I tried to make things. Now I can be found no where. I do no social networking and have disconnected myself in other ways. I’ve joked with friends that I went from living in NYC, NY to a small town in Nebraska!
I know you responded to an email from your ex a few weeks ago, so I assume he’s still emailing (even if you don’t check it). He doesn’t have your number and isn’t calling at work anymore. Does he have any other access to you that he hasn’t tried yet? Phone/text type of stalkers will sometimes go further if they have no way to get in touch. Not saying that to scare you, just want you to be prepared/safe if he escalates in any way. It happens!
Thistoo,
That is crazy…I assume a restraining order on #1 wouldn’t even work since he is that bad. I read the gift of fear at first to understand the whole stalking thing. I believe mine threatened to kill his ex after she left.
Living in a state of hypervigilance is awful. Crazy that he scoped you out before hand. I deactivated all my social media accounts, he tried to msg me at first through souncloud so I deleted that too. It’s only for music. He has 6 email addresses 2 are work, and I saw after that he has 2 accounts on the music one. (lied) and he had also called my job from a different number but in his name on caller Id and hung up on my co worker. Discovering these things would have pushed my buttons and flipped me out- but I let them go…like the whole other number thing. That attachment is broken now I believe, bc when I heard last night about his long fb reply on a girls post- and the subtle hints about him being dropped on a dime, I didn’t get upset….I saw it for what it was, his game.
I hope you will be ok. Thank God #2 is not as bad.
People made jokes to me- damn what did you do to this guy, I said, it’s NOT a compliment, they are sick. It’s not love.
Remember,
These men are trolls! Just because he is doing the pity play to pick up women doesn’t mean he’s done with you. Your attachment may be broken, maybe not. These monsters want control and according to my counselor often continue to contact to maintain that control. My first spath continues to stalk yet I found out he had another relationship with a women while we were together in another state and she’s moved here now. Hasn’t stopped him! Although I believe that’s why he’s laid off of me some. I hope he stays with her forever!
I don’t live in hypervigilance anymore. I did that for a long time and it wore me down. Now I’m just vigilant. I live my life for me the best I can, while recovering from #2. I feel like I’m finally finding a balance, a normalcy while being aware of my surroundings at all times. It is stressful now that I’m not only looking for one car following me while driving, but 2! Two spaths in a row is too much! Ugh.
Why do you believe he threatened to kill his ex when she left?
Good job on no social networking! It sucks, but I believe it’s safer and eliminates so many options. He can’t contact you. You can’t look to see what he’s up to. Win, win!
Thistoo,
There was allegedly a restraining order she put from another state he said it was vague saying that he said he would take the children from her. Blabla, one time during a fight he blurted out I said i’d kill her. He said to me before I don’t wana see her i’ll kill her.
Today I had an Aha moment, I dated a psychopath before! Lol. I never dated him long enough to know if he is abusive, I briefly dated him twice over many years span. I rejected him each time- he was “too much”. Found out in 2013 he was sending me and other girl nasty pics. Eeeeew, looking back he has no conscience and is a creepy wacko. Maybe just an N. However lots of realizations. If I look at my ex like I look at him. I laugh! The other psycho DOES pop back up and recycle girls over n over. Eeeeew too.
SOover,
How’d you guys get so lucky to have 2 in a row? I’m totally joking here. I’m finally able to make some jokes again. Lol. Progress.
Remember,
As for the restraining order, I don’t have one. At the beginning of the stalking I was terrified, especially after the police dismissed me like they did. I thought at the time (and still believe I’m spot on about this) that a restraining order would’ve fueled the fire and that the challenge would have been fun for him. Looking back, I wish I had filed one along the way, just to start a paper trail. It’d be tough for me to get one now. He’s very covert in his stalking. Unfortunately, where I live you have to prove you’re in imminent danger. If he escalates again I will have a better case.
I did talk to a DA prosecutor a while back. He believed I had enough for a felony case but I needed a larger paper trail first.
I pray every day for my safety and that he’ll finally give up and it won’t ever come to any of this…
This,
What an evil sicko. I hope he calms down or gets distracted.
I was so shamed and depressed at the end, I was like I wish he would have finished me off when he choked me briefly.
That was the depression or whatever talking.
Remember,
I need to read your story again, I don’t remember the choking! That is so horrible. And VERY scary.
Depression, maybe. Although I can relate. I can honestly say though that at times during this healing process, when I’ve been more myself and not depressed (I know depression) I would sometimes wish he’d just come and kill me in the middle of the night. End my terrified suffering and get it over with. I even left my alarm off a couple of times because I thought “F’ it, let him win.” It was desperation more than anything.
Is there a chance you wanted him to follow through and end it, not because of depression, but because the pain HE was causing you would end?
Thistoo,
Yes, what you just said! End that pain. Because I wasn’t depressed yet, I was still going through it.
Even yesterday I had a moment thinking I don’t want to be on this planet with all these selfie taking ego feeding monsters anymore! I was one of them at one point feeding into the ego. I see it.
My eyes are open wide now!!
Remember,
One of the hardest parts of my journey is the realization that there are BAD people out there. Too many of them.
We have always been told bad people exist. I knew this to be true. I’ve encountered bad people. I’ve encountered abuse as a child. Still, I didn’t know what that truly meant until all of this. There are not just BAD people, but EVIL people.
I find it comforting to know that people like us exist. On this site I have found so many good people. People that have saved me, even though they don’t know it and I only read their posts, not respond.
We are good. We have empathy. We have a conciseness. We will prevail! We already are prevailing! That’s what gives me hope. WE are the winners! No matter how messy life gets, we are living! THEY. They are not.
Thistoo,
Thank you thank you! This site has helped me more than therapy!
I knew there were evil people, but after I survived cancer I was around good people for years, then as time went on, I drifted, slowly, back into the jungle of life, out of my protective little bubble. Played with fire, and got burned! But yes… I/we shall prevail!!
AMEN!
Remember,
God bless our messy yet beautiful lives! Illness brought you to a positive place at one time. Trauma from my past brought me to a positive place at one time. The best I’d ever felt in fact before being preyed on. They love our love and our survival instincts. They sought us our for all the good we are so they could have it and use it to their advantage. When all is said and done, we are the owners of our own souls! We keep our good. The good, they will never have.
Thistoo,
Yaay for appointment. After you get tested you’ll feel better knowing. You will be ok. I’m scared too, who knows what he did the last 3 months.
I avoided the whole fb thing bc after we got together I deactivated, I had been wanting to. He said he did too. Probably faked it for real. It may have helped me or maybe not, we had a bunch of female (ofcourse) mutual friends, and I woulda probably looked psycho, so whatever. I know enough sickness. I’ve dreamt about setting him up and stuff. Lol. My ex- non abuser who I left and dated psycho wants to kill him. But we are all 40 now. Lol if it was back in the day he woulda got his a** beat!
Oh boy!
What a day. What a life!
We’re doin it!
Remember,
“What a day. What a life. We’re doin it!” Yes, we are!
Consider it a blessing you wanted to get off fb and got off when you did. You avoided the chaos. Kudos! It took me too long…at least I got more insight along the way, even if painful.
Thank goodness we are at an age (I’m only a few years younger than you) we can clearly see to behave better than them! At least we maintain our pride, regardless of the hell we’ve been through.
Thistoo,
Happy Friday!
I meant to ask, when did you and #2 breakup?, and how long have you been NC?
Remember,
We broke up at the end of January. The next day he was trying to get me back. I’m so over his crap. Or at least I want to be. I went NC March 18th.
I had an exhausting/hard day at work. It makes it hard because when I’m tired I want to contact him still. Even though I know what an ass he is. I’m feeling very sad and extremely angry. I can do this, right?
Thistoo,
Kaya said it so wonderfully…
Think with your brain not your heart. Know if you do it will bring more pain…
Breathe. Journal. Someone told me to journal before and during the initial crazy ending, I filled up two journals. I would even pick up paper and start writing at work. Write whatevr the hell you want to say to him- nice or mean, loving or angry, let it all out. It usually helps. Write until the emotions subside.
And you know we got you.
🙂
Thisooshallpass, me, too! My first Narc/Spath lasted 10 years (after five, I realized he was a Narc/Spath but I was legally tied to him via house ownership together; I had to file BK to get out after he stopped paying the mortgage). Then the 2nd Spath, luckily I recognized the symptoms and was out within six months, thank God. This 2nd Spath wanted to marry me right away and promised me love, a new house, working with him in his successful business, etc. It was a mirage. Once, when we were talking about how the world has so many more nuts now, he said to me “Yes, I hear that with Borderline Personality Disorder people, the best thing to do is just get away from them.” Well, HE’S a BPD person! When he said that to me, my subconscience filed it away and, sure enough, after a lot of research on the internet, I believe him to be someone with Borderline Personality Disorder (alcoholic, liar, tried to committ suicide, charming, manipulative, gas lighting, etc.).
SOMS,
Good Lord, I can’t imagine going from a 10yr spath relationship to a 6 month relationship with one! Congrats on keeping your eyes wide open and realizing it. Unfortunately, as we both know, 6 months is enough to cause a lot of damage and retraumatization. My heart goes out to you! Both of mine were 8 months Technically my 2nd spath I dated a year. I dated him for 3 months prior to my first, but at the time I had no idea, which is why I still consider him #2. My first one moved quickly in his crazy making. It was hell on earth!
Funny how we store things away when they reveal themselves. I relate to you so much on that! My first one told me 3 months in that a therapist once diagnosed him as a cocaine addict and a sociopath. Of course he claimed she was a stupid bitch and that he didn’t do coke anymore. When I questioned him on the whole sociopath thing (I wasn’t informed at that time), I ended up being the insensitive one and “crazy” for questioning him. After we broke up I found out he was a cocaine addict the entire time we were together (how did I not know?!) and so I researched sociopaths. Sure enough, he fits the profile to a T! Why would he reveal that to me? He definitely wanted to put a bug in my ear, I know that much.
Spath #2 also rushed me, like yours did. He was pressuring me to buy a house. He wanted me to save all of my money and he would pay for everything while we lived together (aka, he was going to trap me and rob me!). A “mirage”, as you stated. Nicely put. It’s strange looking back. I loved him, I wanted a future with him, at least I thought I did at the time, but I felt trapped.
Remember,
You are progressing! I had that same thought today…that it must be a good sign I have humor about some of this now. Humor, hurt and healing. It’s all about finding a balance.
I would say he was truthful when he told you about threatening to kill her! Like SOMS and I have been talking about….they reveal themselves to us at times. We were just so caught up in the craziness which is why we filed things away in our minds.
I’ve also had a lot of Aha moments of men in the past. In fact 2 previous partners especially come to mind, one I date dated for 3 months, one on and off for a few years (he was super gross). Until I changed my number, both texted me every 3-6 months for years. They were meaningless to me so I never felt the need to respond. Looking back, that behavior isn’t normal.
Narc, sociopath, pshyco…they ALL cause harm and have ill intentions.
Yes! Balance. Yesterday I was sad then mad, but then on here after you had said about still putting pieces together, it validated me putting pieces together, that that’s normal. Yaay.
We were going through the moving into my place thing. Ugh… one perplexing thing has been his ex from 12 or so years ago, they were together 7 yrs he said. I know who she is, anyways they are close and he was driving her car taking over payments when we got together, she lives back and forth up north and down south, he gave the car back said it was his idea (?) She knew we got together and i’m sure he stayed close w her the whole time he would shut me up if I asked about her since they were bffs- I did not want to ask her things bc a. She would prob stick up for him and b. Didn’t want to seem psycho. Also…I was so caught up in the mystery of his ex and the children sob story and their re contact with him I was too busy!!!!
Anyways, i’m saying why would ex #1 be messing with him wouldn’t she know he is psycho? She asked what kind of girl I was to a mutual friend. She Must just be using him. She’s kinda misguided I think.
Remember,
Just to clarify, this is another ex? Not the one that moved far away and he threatened to kill I assume? If it is her, she moved far but not far enough!
This is his crazy making. How do you know what the truth is and what isn’t? Was he really making all those drives? Was he trying to make you jealous? Are they really BFFs? Just because they communicate does not mean she sees things the way he claimed. As for the car, you’re questioning that. Go with your gut.
Is there a chance she was asking what kind of girl you are because she feels bad for you? Personally, I often question if the women in my ex’s lives are empaths like me, or bad. It gives me comfort to think they are bad. Is there a possibility this is where she’s coming from?
Thistoo,
It’s his ex before the child’s mother yep. He obviously reconnected w her after babymama left and he was driving her BMW pretending it was his. She couldn’t make the payments. They were close but he returned the car and then “acted” like he cut ties with her. I don’t buy that. He’d be like don’t mention that bitches name. They were hanging out when she came down here before I hooked up with him. I don’t think she’s an empath I think she is a gold digger, still works in gentelmens clubs, and he tries to act like he’s still the ladies man, so I think if anything she uses him. I don’t feel like she was pining away for him.
When I changed my # he was like I got plenty to replace u, and I hv someone who really loves me just waiting for YOU to fk up!!!
Whatev.
Remember,
I don’t know their relationship so I don’t know for sure, is there a chance they were still seeing/sleeping together? Especially if she’s as you’ve described. I wouldn’t be surprised.
My ex’s ex girlfriend/current BFF is now dating his best guy friend. She’s a wonderful and kind hearted woman. She’s been with several abusers in the past. She’s also an empath. My counselor asked if his guy friend is abusive too. That often times a guys best friend knows the truth about them and some abusers travel together. She asked me the same question I’m asking you. Is there a chance they’re still sleeping together? Ouch. Maybe, maybe not. But it’s definitely a possibility considering all of the lies!
On my to do list, when I’m finally ready. Get checked for STDs. His ex/BFF, although kind, has an STD. I’m scared. I know I have to take care of myself but I’m not sure I want to know…yet.
Thistoo,
Oh I couldn’t imagine them not sleeping together! She’s here part time. Before I met him they were hanging he took over her car. I’m sure they did…but since she goes back up north and dates other guys, he hooked up with me. We were together all the time, but if she came down to see her family, sure they coulda hung out behind my back. I got tested for everything last Sept, but we continued until Christmas so I want to get tested again.
And that whole texting, emailing, fb messaging, yahoo messaging all day everyday, we did, that can’t be NORMAL!!!!!
Good luck on the test. Pray pray pray….
Remember,
No, It’s not NORMAL!!! I felt secure with both my spaths because they communicated with me so often. Part of their charm and play while sleeping with other women.
I am so grateful for you. I am feeling inspired. I’m going to make a doctor’s appointment right now! good for you for getting tested twice. It may take me a while to get in to see my doc, fingers crossed!!
Yep, a false sense of security. He’d say who do u talk to bc I only talk to u. Yea, right with your 6 email addrs. I questioned it all. Him dating me was like investigation discovery. He got me at a vulnerable time. Lucky him!
You have given ME strength. Thank you I am grateful. And here there is strength in numbers for sure!
I think u will be good. I need to make an appt too.
We got this!!!!!!
Remember,
I read your message as you “went” to get tested again, when in fact you “want” to get tested again! I made an appt for April 21st and then paced my house for a while. I pray for our health.
I totally get the several accounts. Ironically, I spoke in length to #2 about the dozens of fake fb accounts #1 had. #1 took his fake profiles to lengths…I even ended up talking to a girl on the phone who had contacted me via fb (she was a stranger). She claimed she was worried about a friend talking to my ex. Turns out it was him trolling for info I was dishing out. It was him! Lord knows who the woman was…He also tried and friend request my family and close friends through fake accounts (after they blocked him). It was obvious enough that my family and friends knew it was suspicious and most likely him.
One time when I was talking to #2 about #1’s fake fb accounts he confessed that he had over a 100 email accounts to weed out spam and keep accounts separate (he owns his own IT business). Now I know, it was just one of those clues I kept filed away in my mind. Who knows if it’s true. I mean, what kind of person has that many email accounts? I didn’t even consider at the time he was playing with my head…
Asses. How many women were they trolling? Yuck.
We’ve so got this!!!!
Thanks, Annette, for the assessment. I was able to pull it up the second time. Now I need to spend some time with it. I appreciate you. And HM, thanks for your recommendation. You echoed what I was feeling, but it is sometimes difficult to argue with a controller who thinks he knows best….and is insulting when I disagree. It is a double whammy! My gut was telling me to maintain no contact because this is warfare, and my spath is much more skilled with her weapons. Using gray rock requires skills and strength from me that I am still learning, and I would not be able to maintain. Hearing you say the words I needed to hear to reinforce my choices was very helpful. It truly WAS what I needed to hear….that my gut was right and I should go with my gut, despite the negative consequences of non-agreement from my controller.
I don’t know if it would help anyone else, but I want to share something from my therapy appointment yesterday. I was talking about controllers, and I blurted out that my mother was scary. I never even realized that I felt that way! I just came out! Both my eyes and my therapist’s eyes opened wide, because this was a breakthrough. The part that I wanted to share is that many of us may have developed coping patterns, like people pleasing and compliance, to protect ourselves as children from someone we viewed as “scary.” And we have carried those patterns throughout life with disasterous results! I am almost 64 years old, and it’s hard to learn at this age WHY we have been doing it all wrong our whole lives. HM suggested that I see a therapist, and I never would have realized my childhood fears and how I have been compliant for my whole life as a result, if not for her suggestion. So I repeat her suggestion to my friends on this site. SEE a therapist, and keep looking until you find one that can truly help you. It is worth its weight in gold. I expect the months ahead to be difficult while I learn how to be the person God created me to be instead of the scared little girl…but there is light at the end of the tunnel. And the change that we make in ourselves is our coat of armor to protect ourselves from wrong actions that invite further abuse. Thank you a million times over for all of you special and wonderful folks out there.
i get what your saying but doing the emdr and having no place to live and divorced no relationship w my daughter and my np yea its not too good. with all of the anger coming out its been a lot to deal with. the problem with me my forced upon mantra i had to live by was stop thinking abt yourself think of others and do for others. well look at that thinkg its got me into all kinds of mess. so if im not positive rite now my counselors get it and not having a support system and going through all this trauma it is alot.
i get what your saying but doing the emdr and having no place to live and divorced no relationship w my daughter and my np yea its not too good. with all of the anger coming out its been a lot to deal with. the problem with me my forced upon mantra i had to live by was stop thinking abt yourself think of others and do for others. well look at that thinkg its got me into all kinds of mess. so if im not positive rite now my counselors get it and not having a support system and going through all this trauma it is alot.
Hanalei
I love the quote you just posted:
“Never make someone a priority if you are only an option to them.”
Very true. That is what I was, an option. Even after I was discarded I was still the “option” to return to, in case the minions did not work out. The mother of his only child made an option.
And that is why I will remain no contact. Because I will never be an option to someone again. I was his option for over 20 years.But I put an end to it by filing for divorce…no more option for him. To this day I know I made the right decision, it was the only choice I had.
I truly made this man my number on priority in life, while he was going around being “Cpt America”, being a pervert and a cheater. I always put my child before him and I am glad for that.
I still believe that one day they will have to answer to God, and it won’t be pretty.