UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Thistoo,
Wow! That sounds almost like me and my x best friend. She’s why I changed my # the 3rd time. She stuck up for me at first with pboy, but then betrayed me badly over something else and I didn’t do Anything to Her!! I will never speak to her again, it was 20 years, but she is sick-mental and I don’t miss her. Anyways now she probably talks to him on fb.
I’m sorry you have lost your friendship with her….
If you can’t trust her then you just can’t.
It sounds like him sinking his claws in would be textbook spath behavior doesn’t it?
She needs to respect your boundaries if you guys talk again.
That’s what triggered my friends attack on me- all of a sudden I put up boundaries and woke up to her negativity and poison!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY tomorrow!!!!!
I’m having mild side effects from the new med but I see the Dr. on Monday anyways.
Also, I get the being sad over email, I have been a tiny bit too.
I dumped him and he begged and begged and cried and harrassed and fought, so my mind plays tricks on me sometimes.
I broke up and gave him a few chances throughout because of the insanity, so what i’m saying is since the hate goes away and the bad thoughts I think like oh maybe he’s not fake or evil.
I think time is gonna work this one out for us…
One moment at a time.
Keep appreciating our free time without worrying and stressing.
He took up every minute of every day.
My sanity was taken by him.
He was good at it.
Thanks, Remember! I’m looking forward to my birthday and starting fresh!
It’s amazing how our spaths took up every minute of every day. I feel like my sanity was destroyed there for a while!
As for being sad about my email, I’m not now. I actually just broke NC and TALKED to my ex. I don’t regret it. It was the best thing that could ever happened! Perfect timing to get it out of my system, birthday tomorrow and all. I didn’t say too much when we talked but he sure did…Apparetnly I’m sick and he wants me to get serious help. He once again pointed out how my views never happened. When I reminded him I wrote things down he said the things I wrote down during our phone conversations weren’t real because that’s how sick I am and it’s all in my head. So funny! I may be off my rocker sometimes but not that much!
I told him this would be my last contact and he got silent. Then he said “I seriously doubt that.” I pointed out that if he was as concerned as he would he would have sympathy and not blame me. I told him that maybe he was the sick one and everything was in his mind. He didn’t like that one bit!
He told me he’s worried that I contact him sometimes over the last 4 months. I said that’s because I “loved” him and I was working through things. And that obviously it was so hard for him to lose the love of his life (not understanding why I was calling?). I said if he really thought I was this sick why talk to me? If he didn’t want contact with me, why contact me? Our conversation ended with me saying I wouldn’t contact him again. He said, “Thank you” and I hung up. Little does he know….
I’m so proud of myself. I broke NC but I stood strong. I didn’t accept his words. I am forever NC with him now. No doubt. That’s all I needed!
I’m so happy I’m working on deleting the account I’ve had for 15 years that both #1 and #2 have. It feels great! I’m not even angry or sad. I feel empowered!!! I feel renewed!! I feel like ME!!! Goodbye spaths! Happy birthday to me!!!!!
BTW, what kind of side effects are you having? I’ve had so many years of experience on meds and most of my students are on them. It’s good they’re mild and your seeing your doc.
Thistoo,
Holy crap you talked to him? Aaaaaaaaaaah! You actually heard his voice? Hahaaaaa.
You are brave!
I’m glad you feel good and not bad.
I could never speak to mine because I won’t be able to keep my mouth shut and tell him the lies I realized (more of them) and he will deny or gaslight and I will flip out!!!
I’m glad that didn’t happen to you.
You’re Birthday is the perfect time to start fresh!!!
It’s like New Years Day!
Oh yeah, i’m having acid reflux from it and now kinda feels like a lump in my throat. I read about people having reflux from it.
We’ll see what he says.
I think pro biotics may help too.
I need to drink more water also…
Remember,
Yep! Heard his voice. It was odd. I didn’t know what to expect but I prayed to keep strong. I knew I had to get it out of my system. I got all the proof I needed and let him do most of the talking. I thought I wouldn’t e able to keep my mouth shut! I surprised myself. 🙂
I needed to get it out of my system and have my new start tomorrow planned. That helped.
Acid reflux sucks. It’s the worst feeling especially when it’s constant. Hopefully your doc will be able to help!!
TT
i think if you hadn’t made this one last attempt to call him it would have you may never felt you had closure, thats why you know when its best to start the NC”you may have needed to do this before you go forward.
i am the same way, i was telling kaya the other day. i know i broke my NC but there were things i needed to say, whether he read my message or not, i know i said it and it he read it, then fine”
we spoke once last week about starting NC when we feel its right”if we start it when there are things we need to do or say still pending, we end up breaking the NC to do it”maybe not all of us are like that, but i am.
good for you and now you’re ready to begin, right on your BD! have a great one 🙂
janedoe,
I know breaking NC by talking especially is not ideal! However, it did help me, surprisingly!! I didn’t say much, needed to hear what he had to say. It was enough for me. Little does he know he set me free!!! Like you said, I needed this before moving forward. I called from a google voice number and then blocked him on that. He doesn’t know my new number…so that’s good.
Thanks for the Bday wishes. 33 was my best year yet. That was a few years ago. I’m hoping this year will be even better!!!!
Remember and jd,
I forgot to mention! Now BOTH emails are officially deleted!!! I’m free!!!!! No spath #1 or #2! How awesome is that? I did it!!!!!! No more contact with either, EVER again. Let’s just hope #1’s stalking keeps at bay….
TT
exactly! little does he know the relief he just gave you to move forward!!
have a great bday…youre so young!!! so much ahead of you…go for it girl!!!
Remember
yeh i have had the pity play by the S when i suggest he stop contacting me”and mine is newly married”you would think he would just say “i agree”
no, he has to come back to hoover and make me more nuts than he has”or beg me like yours does, as you mentioned
then it gets me thinking like you do..maybe he isn’t so bad
i know thats just wishing for something that will not happen”i would never be happy if he even said lets get together again because i would know too much about him at this point. i wonder if its the thrill of the chase that has made me have hope in the past..thinking when he hoovers that “i knew he missed me and he’s not so bad”
no no no way, not anymore do i think that”not after all that has happened and has been said. he hoovers because he is lacking supply or attention”i now realize that. its all fake tears from them
JD,
He cried all the time! It was crazy!
JD,
And all that and he is newly married.
Sheesh.
JD,
Yes, one time 10 yrs ago I dated a not so good person for maybe 6 months, and I got mad one day and changed my number out of anger and I ended up much sadder then I was.
So after this spath or whatever relationship my other friend that works in psych field- was like no contact, change your number, you fell off the face of the earth…but sshe didn’t explain anything to me and I didn’t know what he was or whatever yet.
So… I knew from the past not to do anything drastic until I was ready.
It wasn’t until 3 days of fighting lime crazy and his fake hospital visit that went on for a week….after he admitted that, I was ready to change my number. That’s just not normal.
:/
This too shall pass
Thats great that you deleted those email accounts. Did you really feel better after you talked to him? Did he really hear your voice, or did he tell you “how crazy you are” that you need help? You should not even give him that opportunity for you to listen to his evil words.
I always wanted closure after my long term marriage. I always hoped for some words that he took responsibility and that he felt sorry how he hurt his wife and his son. He never gave me those words….instead he told me how crazy and insane I am, how he had no other choice than leaving. And of course running to his little co worker right away. I still remember the day he left, he went straight to a pharmacy and picked up a supply of Viagra. When I asked why, he said ” I did this to make you mad”. He picked it up to use it and that is the only reason. But do you see how they mess with our minds, our thinking, our emotions….he really thought I was an idiot.
For 3 longs months after the discard I gave him what he wanted. Control over me, control of my thinking. Was I really that bad of a wife for him to leave me, maybe after all I am crazy? That was my thinking 24/7. When I responded to his crap, there one more chance for him, to reduce me to a little crying mess…looking back to that, I am not proud of my actions. It wasn’t me, it was a puppet, that played into his mind games.
When I finally had it and filed for divorce, I left my lawyers office smiling, empowered, in control for the first time in over 20 years. Finally I had someone on my side, someone who looked out for me…someone who was much stronger than my CPT America, cop husband. Someone who would not take his B/S. In truth I needed that lawyer many years ago, but I was afraid.
Satan knows exactly how to appeal to our sentimentality and he knows how to time to catch us at our weakest moment, when we are feeling vulnerable or nostalgic. It is a manipulation meant to toy with our emotions in an effort to get us to respond. DO NOT FALL FOR IT. DO NOT RESPOND. Nothing in your ex’s life requires immediate attention, or attention at all. Take the time to think about it and figure out what is really going on and how you might want to handle it in a way that best for YOU, and not him. WHICH MEANS NOT GETTING INVOLVED AT ALL.
No contact means the END..not talking to him one more last time…that works with normal relationships, not with socio paths or narcissists.
kaya
yeh i can see in your case NC needed to be implemented immediately…if he is insulting you and putting you down, putting you in mental hospitals..my god, yes thats immediate action..
maybe mine was simpler and i just needed to get a few things out, he wasn’t doing the hurtful damage as you had, although it is all hurtful, you had it pretty rough…
i am with you on how you went about it, no time to waste on a crazy immature evil devil!!
i know i have said all i needed to get out, he can do what he wants with it now…i don’t care if he understands or doesn’t…nothing he can say to me will get me back to the place i was mentally, 9 months ago. I’m done with his crap
happy mothers day 🙂
Kaya,
Oh boy the conversation we had yesterday was bad! I prepared myself for that much. Although he amped it up way more than I expected. Blaming me for crazy town to the max!!
I will always advise and continue to advise others to stay NC. It’s hard to explain, I needed this, It was MY closure. He’s been playing the “nice” guy by keeping contact to a minimum but I know there’s purpose to that. He proved it yesterday by saying over and over how he has not contacted but that I reach out because I am “sick.” He called me sick at least 100 times. No joke. He did not hear any of my words”.I went in knowing he wouldn’t.
I’ve had moments over the past couple of months of “Maybe he isn’t what I think?”, although I KNOW he is. I needed further confirmation. I NEEDED that. More than I thought I did. I’m grateful we spoke. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy about my decision but he’s toxic and I didn’t sleep well last night because of his words replaying in my head (you know how that goes!). The good news is, I don’t believe his words. In fact I find his words pathetic. “You’re sick, you need serious help, blah, blah, blah.” I stood my ground. I called him out on trying to convince me.
After our break up I made the mistake of calling him a sociopath. He yelled at me about that yesterday. I didn’t react to his words. He didn’t like that. It amazes me how in one 20 minute conversation he showed all his voices/faces/personalities. His was his normal critical ass self, he did his fake crying for a whole 30 seconds, screamed at me and then used his worst voice”.the compassionate, quiet, seemingly soothing/scary voice/whisper. It was so disturbing. Normally he mimics my tone. I think because I wasn’t reacting how he’s used to he showed himself more.
I needed that conversation and am now forever NC. I know that deep in my heart. I felt I needed to do it before my birthday. I’m DONE. He doesn’t believe me. When I asked him why he wanted contact with such a “sick” person, he said he needed to tall me how sick I am. A handful of times throughout the conversation I said I would stop contacting him if I’m that sick. A few of the times he got completely silent (because he doesn’t want me to stop), one time he said “I don’t believe you “ in a cruel voice, and the last time he said “thank you” in his quiet creepy voice and I hung up. I’m hoping for the best now, although once he realizes he’s blocked on everything I think he may get pissed and that concerns me. I don’t take him lightly, especially after what #1 has done to me with his stalking. The actions of these people are to not be taken lightly.
I remember you talking about the gratification knowing that when he sends you a message it bounces back. I understand this now and find it empowering. I am living for me from now on! In all ways. My goals for this year”.build/understand my boundaries, self respect, and true love for myself”body, mind and spirit. From now on he gets NOTHING from me.
Thank you Jane doe
Happy Mother’s Day to you also. They all mess with us mentally ,with our emotional well being. In my opinion not communicating with them is the most healthy solution for us.
With time you will find out freeing it is to totally cut cobtact with people who bring us down . For once I truly feel healthy in my mind.
Thistooshallpass, HAPPY BIRATHDAY TO YOU!!!! 😉 😉 😉
Thistoo,
I second that!
Happy Birthday!
Or 3rd that?
🙂
oops spelling erro BIRTHDAY
Jan7, Remember and jd,
Thank you so much for the birthday wishes! It was a good day. I took my students to the zoo, my teacher’s assistants threw me a surprise party and I got my hair cut by my stylist/awesome friend, relaxed and shared some wine. Now I’m ready for sleep!
I’m feeling so much better today knowing that I am now full NC. No way for either spath to get ahold of me now that my emails are deleted. Thank goodness I used the google voice number for my convo with #2 yesterday! I’m very much looking forward to a new year after 2 years of hell with these men!
THANK YOU ALL and DONNA for your support. This site has saved me!!!! Not to mention I feel your love today. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Thistooshallpass, I am so happy that you had a wonderful birthday!! Sounds like a great day.
YOU took your power back hon, what a great birthday gift to give yourself!
No Contact is the other great gift you give yourself!!!
Enjoy your Birthday weekend! 😉
Hugs!!
Thank you, jan7! I’m feeling really good about it. I’m feeling strong and empowered. I’m looking forward to having me back (I’m already feeling it) but a more balanced, aware, and self loving me!! 🙂
Lf friends…..
I have a question.
What is it, or what makes us, or why is it that we know what they are?
How come some people don’t know or figure it out, or come to the conclusion about them?
Is it something about us that is curious by nature? I have always been curious and an investigative researching type- wanting to learn.
I ask because looking back on life now you can see the people who were spaths.
There is a guy I briefly dated a few times over a span of 17 years and although I figured out in 2013 that he was in fact a gross sicko- it’s now that I KNOW he is a spath.
Is it because Ididn’t know about them then?
I would always end up rejecting him.
So just like that I guess some people may not know what one might be and never figure it out??
That’s weird to me. I don’t know why…
Remember,
I’m glad you posted this as I have thought so much about this as well and now recognize spaths in my life.
I dated a guy on and off for 3 years. Now I can SEE the mindf’ he caused me was all about. Strange enough he’s been in contact recently (not now that I’ve deleted my email!). He used to text every 3-6 months for 4 years after we broke up (until I changed my numbers). I never responded. Um, hello, spath much? No NC and he keeps at it. It was a horrible on and off experience with him. Still..I didn’t see what he was. Why am I seeing now???
Maybe after enough encounters something starts to click? Maybe we finally started trusting ourselves over all this time? Maybe it was the help by God or our higher spirit that finally led us to this point in our lives?
It’s possible many people don’t recognize because they chose to see people as good. We used to not recognize. We were comfortable in our shells. OUR experiences and KNOWING is not comfortable. It’s possible we needed that. I have always been an empath and it’s been easier for me to recognize/feel the toxic and discomfort in others lives. I’ve always struggled in seeing situations in my own life. I’m realizing I’ve always had my gut reactions but chose to ignore for the better good. But better good for who? Not me, that’s for sure! Put that on my to do list for this year”check my gut! ALWAYS!!!
Like you, I’ve always been curious and the investigative type. We tend to balance crisis better than other people and look on the bright side. Sandra Brown discusses it in length in her book “Women Who Love Psychopaths.” It really clicked with me. There is a common type of woman with certain personality traits that spaths seek because it balances their insufficiencies.
I really need to go buy that book today!
“Women who love Psychopaths”
The library in Chicago does not have it!
Imagine that.
stronginthecity, Women Who Love Psychopaths is the book that saved my sanity. I’ve said here before, that for months, I carried it around with me. My copy is full of post its, underlines, highlights, and notes in the margin. You can get it on Amazon. You will NOT regret spending the money, I guarantee.
HanaleiMoon,
Thank you!
Yes, I want to read it now! I always do this on the weekend…
I forget about it during the week and then the weekend comes and I want it now!
I’m just going to order it on Amazon now as I really am not in the going out of my house mood.
Stroninthecity
Remembertoforget,
Thats a great post!
If you read my posts and the “original”(like a Lifetime movie spath tales “He makes me believe the lies and sucks me into the drama” I did’t get a clue for over 7 years… when the spath dumped me and disappeared and then again reappeared years later that he was a spath.
I just had no idea that these disordered individuals existed.
Things were just not right but I couldn’t put my finger on what the hell what happening.
I just started Googling the traits and here I am.
I believe we are the lucky one’s.
The people who have figured it out.
It took this website to help me understand.
Stronginthecity
remember
what makes us know they are what they are?
i actually didn’t know what type of person he was, i just classified it as a con, liar and cheater..to get what he wants out of women..
after being so cruelly duped by him last summer, i wanted to get over the horrible way i felt and how he went about cheating and managing to get married behind my back, while we had been together for 3 years. this i didn’t find normal. when i googled “men who cheat or lie” it lead me straight to this site.
at first explaining my situation on here, i don’t remember the first person who responded but i explained what kind of person i was dealing with and right away was told an S,N or P…
i didn’t know what these terms meant, except of hearing it in movies..did i ever think i would deal with it in my lifetime? NEVER EVER EVER
even after all was said and done i wasn’t completely convinced this is what he was. when the hoovering began and the love bombing…it almost knocked me over because NOW he completed the list of traits that these evil people have..there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever.
you most probably now know your ex from 17 years ago is a spath because perhaps you didn’t look into his behaviour over the years and only now have come to realize it after doing much reading and research..
perhaps some people just get over this sort of treatment from a spath differently than we do..we were so hurt and we wanted answers so we searched for answers..or perhaps other ppl don’t figure it out because they are spaths themselves?? but when someone tells me a heartbreaking relationship story, i am immediately guarded now and run down the list of traits that this sickos have…i am so on guard now
i remember at the beginning of our relationship, his love bombing was so nuts and so much, that my friends didn’t believe me when i told them all the beautiful things he said. one friend asked me if i thought that it was normal to go overboard with compliments like he had, and i just shrugged off her statement, and now i regret not listening..i don’t think i have encountered a person this bad in my lifetime until now
Hello all,
I need some help, advice and guidance. I was married to exPH for 10 years, went through a bitter divorce (no kidding) and got free. But then I dated FWBex, a drug addict who relapsed. Anyhoot, I went to 12 Step and reduced my co-dependency, FWBex broke up with me twice, then he was D and D’ing me again and I finally said “NO” and dumped him (well, confirmed that he was dumping me again and that he and I wouldn’t be getting back together on any intimate level).
Still the partially recovered codependent, I tried to maintain a friendship. Anyhow, one day I told him I had no money left (which he already knew), didn’t qualify for any more credit, and couldn’t get any health or disability insurance because I”m a cancer survivor as well as other health problems. He had asked then declined my offer of financial help for legal matters and re-education because he said he didn’t want to take advantage of a single mom as his crew would think badly of him if he did so.
Several months later, without some contact in between, I let him know that I was going for an emergency cancer biopsy, reassured him it was not cervical cancer, and then FWBex emailed me the following quote:
“Exit Stage Left”.
Anyhow, I figured he had exited due to my being broke and that that was the last I”d ever hear from my “friend”. So I let it go. He turned up a few days later with a friendly hello, and I said “but I thought you said Exit Stage Left”. He then went on and on saying he was right, I was wrong and paranoid, he was not a psychopath blah blah blah. (I hadn’t called him a psychopath, being more worried about whether or not the CANCER itself was a psychopath).
At any rate, I was in such a state having not gotten my biopsy results that I called him an a**hole and told him never to darken my life again. I later apologized for HOW I said it, but not for ending the “friendship”.
OK, what’s my question?
Well…. I’ve always wondered if he contacted me back after “exit stage left”:
a) He had actually come around and was worried about my health, and was just checking in, but being a drug addict, he had a crappy way of showing it or…
b) He wanted to get back into my place to steal my jewellery (before I had to sell it), just to have sex, or to steal my documents for fraud and identity theft purposes (since he wouldn’t have to feel too guilty for getting one over on a dead person)
c) I got it wrong – and it was a simple quote from a cartoon, as he claimed!
Any thoughts? I’ve now survived cancer twice (my biopsy results came out clear two weeks later) and an exPH…. but I”m still learning!!
Oh, I forgot
d) Exit Stage Left may have meant simply that I was going to “Exit Stage Left” (from the cancer)
and re: b) above, he kept telling me not to sell the jewellery, and he kept asking for things like the name of my first pet and my mother’s maiden name, that could be used for bank from, plus he’d cased the security system in my condo and he’d asked me what I’d do if I were rolled, would others in my community protect me? Plus he would rant on about his habit and how he DIDN”T want to be involved in drug dealing, prostitution or extortion, he wanted a way out to get clean and sober and have a clean life.
OK, there’s my rant, please help me avoid SP ROUND Three!!
Cat,
All those questions about your pets name and mother’s maiden name, and checking your security, and off comments, are Red Flags!
If you have to try to decode his messages and his sincerity towards you, that is a red flag too.
I am a 2 time cancer survivor, and that ALONE is more than enough stress and worrying that anyone should be doing.
He sounds like bad news, and if you are vulnerable right now, he Knows it!
Don’t let him take advantage of you.
Cut your losses and run!
Just my opinion…
Hope you are feeling well soon, and glad your biopsy was ok!
Thanks so much!
I do now have the FWBex out of my life, which in the long run will be better and healthier for me, I’m sure! And also in a way it would be worse for me, and even for him if I stuck around either as a “mark” or as an enabler!!
You know, there was another weird one. FWBex snuggled up to me one day and started asking me about any sexual abuse in my past. I didn’t answer, because I wondered if he’d use it against me one day, but less logically, I didn’t answer because I felt creeped out. I’m glad I didn’t answer!! It was just weird!!
Cat, wow you have been through a lot. I am sorry to hear about your cancer & that you were sucked into a psychopaths crazy life. So much for one person 🙁
I think you are over analyzing his behavior & his comments. I think you just have to look at his actions and not his words. Remember actions speak louder then words. He is showing you exactly who he is = a very manipulative person!
My first thought reading your comment is are you ok since you are dealing with cancer again?
His first thought is “Exit stage left”….this is NOT a friend, a friend would be concerned would say…”How can I help you?’ or “What do you need?” or “you need a hug”. This guy lacks empathy = narcissist or sociopath behavior!!
Remember all addicts are manipulative & lie & do what ever it takes to get their fix. This guy is NOT a good guy to have in your circle of friends especially that you are dealing with major health issues, you do not need people who stress you out…you need kind hearted, compassionate people around you now…THIS guy is none of these things.
Cut this guy out of your life…in time you will see that was what you needed to do day one.
PS with regards to wanting your pet name he is digging for your pass word info..one of the number one password people pick is past pet names. And for your mothers “maiden name” this is what is used for bank records, financial records…BIG BIG RED FLAGS THAT HE IS TRYING TO CON YOU OUT OF MONEY AND STEAL YOUR FINANCIAL IDENTITY BEWARE!!!!!!!!
VERY SCARY THAT HE IS BEING SOOOO BLATANT TO STEAL YOUR IDENTY & YOUR JEWELRY.
REPORT HIM TO THE POLICE AND GET A RESTRAINING ORDER. HE IS A CON ARTIST AND YOU ARE HIS #1 TARGET VICTIM RIGHT NOW!!!
SLAM THE DOOR ON HIM ASAP!!!
Protect your computer too with very strong security software! He has been trying to gain access to your computer ie emails other social medial.
Wishing you all the best!
Cat, google “mothers maiden name Identify theft” to learn about how con artist steal other peoples financial identity.
This is part of one article on the net discussing identity theft:
“Prevent identity theft
Just like burglars and thieves, cyber criminals have many different ways to steal personal information and money. Just as you wouldn’t give a burglar the key to your house, make sure to protect yourself from fraud and online identity theft. Know the common tricks that criminals employ to help you protect yourself from online fraud and identity theft. Here are a few simple tips.
Don’t reply if you see a suspicious email, instant message or webpage asking for your personal or financial information
Always be wary of any messages or sites that ask for your personal information, or messages that refer you to an unfamiliar web page asking for any of the following details:
Usernames
Passwords
Social Security numbers
Bank account numbers
PINs (Personal Identification Numbers)
Full credit card numbers
Your mother’s maiden name
Your birthday
…………”
CONTACT THE POLICE about this guy & GO NO CONTACT WITH HIM ASAP!!!
I change my cell number, my email addresses, my passwords, everything!
So hopefully that does the trick! I don’t have any proof to go to the police but if he turns up again, I’ll send him on his way and if anything further happens, I’ll then have grounds to go forward further as you all have suggested.
My health is up and down, but I’m once again cancer free! So I guess blessings and sorrows come together because if I weren’t so freaked out by the biopsy, I wouldn’t have kicked FWBex out the door!
Cat, others have mentioned this, but it bears repeating, especially from my own experience: If you are trying to figure out what he meant (a through d analysis), then there is a problem, ranging from garden variety jerk to sociopath to psychopath and you should put him in your rear view mirror. NORMAL relationships do not require analysis of comments, they are straightforward and honest. It took me 50+ years to learn this.
Although in the past I would have excused/ignored/overlooked the “exit stage left” comment, the fact is that there is no interpretation that is a good one under the circumstances. It was a completely assholish thing to say to you. And of course, it manipulated you to try to figure it out when you had much more important things on your mind.
I’m glad your tests came out clear! This is a reason to celebrate and take the best of care of yourself!! Put him behind you!
You know, HanaleiMoon, this is a very good point!! NORMAL relationship aren’t about analyzing comments, and there actually ISN”T a good explanation, just a whole bunch of more or less bad explanations, from jerk making a bad joke at the wrong time and not offering support; to sociopathic testing when he emailed after in a more positive mood, to frank psychopathic sadism….
Assholish is Assholish (which was my diagnosis that I supplied to him nice and promptly, he protested that he is not and never has been an A-Hole but that I’m a fake “good” person… er…. he confirmed his own diagnosis and I just went ahead and am working on becoming an authentically better, healthier person!
Thanks for the good words regarding test results!! I had a regrowth at the site of the previous cancer but it turned out to be benign!!
Cat, yes, assholish is assholish. Period. Ish, it’s so textbook that when you tell him a truth, he has to one up it and tell you something (false) about you that is worse.
If I had a dollar for every time my ex said “yeah but you” – pick one – have a personality disorder you aren’t aware of, need to be on meds, think you’re so honest but you’re really a manipulator, are completely unaware of what a b**ch you are, I’d be rich.
There are GOOD people like us in the world. Not everyone is a monster.
So good that the biopsy was negative, and you don’t have to deal with even more health problems.
From what you describe FWB isn’t acting in ways that help your well being. No matter what he meant, the ‘exit stage left’ message is cryptic, callous, and an inappropriate, unhelpful, uncaring response.
He doesn’t appear to be good for you. You are spending your valuable resources of time and mental energy trying to figure out what he means, which does not happen in normal positive relationships.
Whatever his exact motivation is, is probably not so important. What is important is how your interactions with him affect you. Consider making a list of pros and cons of continuing to interact with him versus not interacting with him. You might also consider whether he is learning anything from you, and/or growing spiritually/emotionally/psychologically because of his interactions with you.
In my own experience I concluded that my ex wasn’t getting anything of value from me – all he was getting was duping delight, glee from abusing me, and power and control from all the other mind games he was playing with me and others.
You might also find that not interacting with someone who does not offer a mutually fulfilling beneficial relationship, will open up opportunities for better people and things to come into your life.
From what you describe about FWB, I think it’s worth considering no contact with him. You have more to offer than he appreciates and you deserve better than he has to offer.
Oh, I also moved, so that should help with that problem!!
Ultimately, I think the callous remark and his not caring or not understanding what I was going through makes him not a real friend, and his attitude towards me was quite unforgiving, so I doubt he was able or willing to learn anything or grow in any way from his interactions with me!!
I have to realize not everyone has good intentions, and not everyone is at the same stage in their recovery. A lawyer friend explained to me how desperate addicts get for the money to get their next fix (well actually the lawyer said “they’d sell their own mother once the drugs get into them”, so probably any cons were just in service of the addiction, or maybe once clean and sober there would still be an SP or N underneath!!
JD,
Thank you for your answer.
The guy many years ago was always “too much” but now I see the things he would say I believed, luckily didn’t want him ah ha…but in 2013 is when I found out he was doing the same ol thing- trying- with me, and accidentaly found out doing the same thing to others!
I didn’t care about dating him you see- so, this one I could hv found out important stuff but he kept me busy and distracted with other drama to avoid me looking where I should have been.
We have mutual aquaintences too and I certainly didn’t want to look crazy asking his “people”.
This too shall pass
Of course they us that “we are crazy”, that we need mental help. In my experience it was one of the worst part of his abuse. Not only did he cheat behind my back, he also diagnosed me with various mental illnesses. This is where their god like behavior comes in. They sit on their “throne” and control and manipulate. This why I will never talk to my ex again. Because the first thing out of his mouth would be “I had to leave you because you are crazy, and now my family is gone, it is all your fault.” I know exactly how he operates. Before I did not see it or realize it. Once I did, I was able to not play into it anymore. I hope you can stay no contact because he will not change, he will only blame you more, diagnose you and label you “crazy”. Who needs that?
My counselor once said, that is a defense mechanism for a Sociopath/Narcissist to label others as crazy. They have so many inner demons, and it makes them feel so powerful, so in control. It is what they feed of. Their insecurities are so well hidden behind their mask and once you expose them, all history is rewritten. You become the biggest obstacle for them, and they have to discard. How dare did someone find out the truth about him?
In the end, it is very sad. I now wish I would have not wasted so many years with him. But it is my past, I put an end to it and I recovered. I now can laugh about many lies he told me. But I also can laugh about how he is such a cowardly loser. I now have the last word.
Kaya,
I totally get you having the last word. I didn’t completely grasp what that meant when you said it before, now I do. I will NEVER have contact again. And I don’t use the word never lightly or often. I’m the type of person that sticks to something once I’ve made up my mind and have had enough. I feel free. And exhausted. It always amazes me how long in takes me to rejuvenate after allowing the door open to his toxicity. Just one more reason to stay NC. I’m grateful for my decision and that there is no way for him to contact me now (unless he contacts my work) and no way for me to check up on him (no social networking or checking my emails). It’s a good feeling.
I’m sorry your ex put you through the crazy train experience for so long! You are awesome for staying strong and not buying into their crap. I also believe my ex tries to convince me I’m crazy so that people don’t discover who he is. The funny thing is that I think he actually believes he can (and has) convinced me I’m crazy! What an idiot. It makes me sad that he’s even convinced my ex best friend I’ve gone nutty. God knows what he’s telling everyone. It hurts. But I know my truth I know what he is and more importantly who I am NOT. I am not crazy. I know what I went through.
I went out with a friend and tried to explain it to her last night. She didn’t understand. She kept asking why he would try to convince me I’m crazy. She knows I’m not. I feel like she’s been blessed that she can’t understand this type of thing and that she’s stayed far away from this type of abuse. From now on I’m also going to stick to NC by not even speaking his name to friends or family. I’ll stick to this site as my release and for moral support.
Thank you Hanalei,I have not read this book yet but will get it this weekend. Another helping book for me is “The Journey from Abandonment to Healing” by Susan Anderson. It is very helpful with the 5 stages that accompany the loss of love. Helped me very much also.
For me, the cheating and affairs was just one part of my heartache. The discard and blaming and defaming my character was a huge part. Being left without any financial help from the man who vowed to love me “forever”, the father of his only child, that part was very painful for me. I felt like that his son and his wife was not important enough to stick around or to care for, to take care of. He put his own selfish needs before everything. And to accept that he was actually capable of this, was very difficult for me. Like you, losing my home, his child’s home, it was hard. In the divorce, it was the most important part for him…to take my house away because he knew I loved this house. But at the same time he destroyed any hopeful relationship with his son. Because of his evilness, he now is alone with his minions. But he has always put his sexual needs before the welfare of his family, so I should have not expected any different.
Have you found a house yet Hanalei? My goal is to purchase a house, that I can truly make my home, within the next few years. I am working on it….I know I can do it.
Have a happy Mothers day…I am not sure if you have children, but I know you are the mother of your pets. 🙂
Kaya, thank you for the Mother’s Day wishes! I hope you have a wonderful day too!
I’m still house hunting. It really is a process! I’m hopeful that I will find something (the right house in the right place at the right price) by the end of the year. One thing for sure, it really makes you think about what truly matters!!