UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Hi. Well a couple of weeks ago I broke no contact because the previous message I sent to my spath implied love and hope. It was suggested to me that I write once more, with no words of love no matter how tempting, and make my intentions clear that our relationship is over and I want no further contact to come to me. Today I got the response. The message said that if that is what I want, then it will be respected. I was told that I will be loved forever.
Its probably the same old story that every one of us has experienced hundreds of times. But I am doubting myself. The message was so nice, although whether or not my wishes not to be contacted will be respected remains to be seen. But there was no argument, no blaming, no drama. I want to believe that this situation is different and I may have hurt someone needlessly. At the moment I am not thinking about the $100k; my jewelry that was stolen, broken promises, the stalking, the lies. My thoughts are consumed with “was this the right thing to do?” For all I have read here, it should be the right thing. I should be happy, right? Then how come I feel so sad?
Debbie,
Your experience with this sociopath abuser is absolutely horrible; and that you were abused so badly for so long can really mess with one’s mind. You can expect that it will take time and hard work for you to recover. You may not really grasp the extent of his insanity and cruelty and the magnitude of your experiences. It sounds like anyone who endured what you endured would have Stockholm Syndrome and PTSD.
I think the most important thing to understand is that he is a very very very bad man, evil really, and that he is very very very harmful to you. You miss the person he would be if he were not a monster, and the person he pretends to be when he pretends to be nice; but you don’t miss who he really is. A person who cares about your well being does not do what he does. A person with good character does not lie and cheat and hurt other people for fun and entertainment.
I understand you miss your home and your animals. I am so sorry that they are not there for you anymore. Perhaps you will have to goal of having a home of your own someday; and you can begin to plan how to make that happen.
Do you have a good counselor you can see on an ongoing basis? It sounds like you would benefit from a therapist who understands about psychopaths and abusers, and who you can see as long as you need to during your healing process.
Are you having any contact with your ex abuser? In order to heal and to allow your mind to think in a balanced and healthy way again, it is most important that you have no contact at all, that you block his phones and emails, that you avoid social media that he can contact you on, and that you avoid seeing anything about him on social media or elsewhere. In my experience this is the most important thing, because continuing contact with an ex abuser continually re-injures the victim and the victim cannot begin to recover. It would be very helpful to you to determine not to have any contact with him in any way about anything, so that you won’t even read or hear him when he tries to contact you when he next gets bored.
It would be a good thing if he were convicted of the crimes of rape and abuse and held somewhat accountable for his behavior. The shelter advice that abuse charges rarely stick may be right. Consider getting a second opinion, just to be sure. Also consider that you would have to talk about and think about him and what he did during the legal process, and maybe testify in court. This may not be good for you; and what is best for you is the most important thing.
You may want to accept what has happened, cut your losses, and start to plan a life going forward. Identify some long term goals and some short term goals, and begin taking small steps to accomplish them. They can be very simple things that you would like to change or do. It might help you move forward, even if you are unsure what to do.
You might make a list of pros and cons of different courses of action if you are not sure what to do next.
Take care.
Replied to the wrong post, I guess, since it shows up here. Sorry.
neveragain51, I read your comment earlier and have been thinking about it since. I think there is psychology behind your reaction and I don’t have the explanation, but I’m not surprised you feel the way you do. The closest I can get is that it is anticlimactic.
It’s similar to the girl who wants to break up with her boyfriend for a long time, worries about it, finally does it and he says, great that’s a relief because I was thinking about breaking up with you. Her reaction is huh? And she immediately doubts her decision. That’s simplistic, but one idea.
Also, you’ve been “trained” to expect a certain type of response from her, and so you expected it again, and you got something different. That may have something to do with it too.
It crossed my mind that it may be a trick.
In any event, HER action has caused you to doubt yourself when you have put so much effort, time, energy and pain into getting to this point.
I think you absolutely did the right thing, it was well thought out and right. I think any of us would feel the same doubts, I know I did, and I can’t count all the times I wondered if I had hurt him needlessly, if maybe I misunderstood, judged him too harshly, etc. I DID NOT. That was just the residual of how he had controlled my behavior.
You feel sad because it is a loss. A loss of something that was really poopy, but also brought you joy and she was someone you loved, even though it was a lie. I think it’s normal to feel sad, I know I did. Go back and dip into Women Who Love Psychopaths, or one of your other books and see what you can find about this.
I think it’s unrealistic to feel happy just yet. You SHOULD feel proud of yourself though. Happy will come with time.
xo
Never Again….
fyi….
as he discarded me… and he did this to other women he conned and abused…
he said and texted……
I WILL LOVE YOU ETERNALLY.
after I was robbed. abused. cheated on in my own apartment. conned beyond believe and told horrific lies about. and hit… and choked..
but he loves me eternally.
spath language that may mean…
“You caught me in my act… but I will tell you I will always love you.. so that you may remain a source of supply when I need one. ”
GAME OVER LOVE FRAUD FAMILY.
Kitty,
Yes, you are right, sounds like spath language. Makes me mad still. I am a lil further along in the process, now I go back and forth from anger to acceptance.
I ended up with clinical depression and had to get on antidepressants. (I had to).
Anyways, I am a local near downtown, so if you really do ever want to have coffee at Starbucks or something, we could.
I can have a post it or something that says remembertoforget. Lollll.
Well, everyone have a nice Friday!!!
remembertoforget…
ill take you up on that coffee.
I NEED PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THIS.
PURE RAW EVIL.
Neveragain,
I did the same thing. Received an email from him claiming that he thought we could start over. He told me the last few years have been the best he has ever had; that he has always been faithful to me; that sometimes you can have all the facts and still come to the wrong conclusion (when I found the obit listing him as someone else’s husband) and Jan7 if you are reading this, What?!?; that he will always love me.
All lies.
I broke NC to respond calmly, rationally and with no emotion that I now know that he has been living with her all along. That I am not the same person I was yesterday; that I wish him all the best with his wife but I am moving on.
I promptly received several loving cyber smacks upside the head from the women here that are so much wiser than me :). They were right……he doesn’t care what I wrote; or how I feel; why did I bother?
I don’t know what his response is. I deleted the email account and sent several test messages from my work email to make 100% sure nothing gets through. I called my cell phone carrier to have them walk me through the steps of blocking his number.
I have to say, its kinda like a weight has been lifted. I said what I had to say. I know it means nothing to him but at least now I can say to myself I made myself clear. I will not beg, plead or most important to me……give him any hint or indication of the pain he caused/is causing me. He doesn’t get that. THe only way he can contact me now is to show up on my doorstep. I have 3 cops that live in my neighborhood and 911 is at my fingertips.
Today I am focusing on things outside of this mess. I’m going to plant flowers/work in my garden. I nominated a co worker for a reward program our company offers; I filled out a card at Meijer recognizing one of their employees for helping me lift all the potting and top soil I need; I called a friend I had not talked to in awhile. I Laughed Out Loud over things people posted on Facebook.
I will not think about him the rest of today. He’s certainly not thinking about me.
I saw this quote which I think is applicable to “No Contact” …….thought I would share:
“Part of the happiness in life consists not in fighting battles but avoiding them.
A masterly retreat is in itself a victory.”
Have a wonderful day!
Thanks for your response. Most days I feel like a weight has been lifted and then I sink down when this “nice” message comes through. The emotions just come, even when you think you are prepared. But no matter how NICE the message, it is not love to lie and cheat and steal while telling someone how much you love them. It is like the post I read ab out a spath who keeps apologizing and continuing to do that for which he is apologizing. Doesn’t sound very sincere to me…. I think I will go beat some pillows some more….
It’s so sad and sadistic…
That’s the world we live in huh? Good and evil.
I think evil should rot in jail or burn in hell.
Just saying…
Humanity. Some so inhumane.
Debbie, are there any local support groups in your area where you could connect with others dealing with relationship issues? Through church, or maybe someone at the women’s shelter could make a recommendation? I find it so helpful to be involved with recovery groups and to be around people who truly understood what is going on with me and inside my head and heart. I don’t post a lot on this site, but I read it regularly and feel like I know everyone here through our similar experiences and emotions. It validates how sick my relationship was with my ex and how it will never change. It is helping to keep me grounded in reality and out of wishful thinking about my ex.
I live far away from all of my family and my closest friends aren’t nearby, so it took some effort to find support groups in my area, but eventually I did, and it’s made a big difference in my recovery. Isolation is too hard for me. Being alone with my thoughts leads to obsessive thinking and it makes it too easy to go back to my spath. A support group can help you feel valued and appreciated for the person you are. Something we need so much after dealing with these awful relationships. Any kind of group would be helpful really, even a book club or doing volunteer work. Anything that will draw you out of isolation and put you around people might help you nurture a healthier outlook. Even if you don’t share your story, connecting with others will help replenish your confidence in yourself. BIG hug to you Debbie.
LoveLiesBleeding7, EXCELLENT comment about keeping busy, being around people and avoiding isolation. I had a really hard time in the beginning with obsessive thinking and it almost got the best of me until I forced myself to get busy. I’ve posted here many times that I even would go out back and dig a hole and fill it in and dig another hole because you can’t think when you’re busy digging. You gave Debbie some great advice! Almost 4 years later, I still have to keep an eye on myself with obsessive thinking.
I live in a small town, last year when I was in the shelter-even the shelter workers were blown away with my story, and although they gave me comfort and support the best they knew how-none of them were actually educated in recovery for victims. I’m Canadian, and unfortunately in order to get into see a good therapist it has to be by referral and because of overload-referrals are given only for people suicidal. I have the option of speaking with counselors, but I have tried that before and feel judged and misunderstood. I absolutely need the support of someone who understands what I am going through mentally….no one gets why I’d keep returning…I don’t even get it!….I know I need to pick myself up and brush myself off-but I have a deep deep pain of needing him to be accountable and take responsibility. I’m thinking even if the police chose not to press charges, I still have the need-to tell my story…..I need to break the silence….I need to stand up and say no this is not ok and im strong enough now to stand up for myself (maybe?!?!). I wrote his parents a letter yesterday, giving them a rough overview of the truth of the situation (because he told them I ran away with another man and he was so hurt and in pain that the “other woman” gave him comfort and she saved him from falling apart)……..that letter could be my death sentence…but I can’t continue to allow him to silence my truth……I know my only way out of the darkness, is to have the strength to stand tall and stop blaming myself. I reacted exactly how I had to, to survive.
Thank you all for your support.
They will never take responsibility or accept any blame for their actions, it is just not going to happen. No matter what. Even in court, my ex played the victim. It is their defense mechanism. If they would accept any blame then it would defeat them, make them look weak and powerless, expose their inner turmoil, their insecurities.
Even after more than 2 years post discard, my ex still believes, I was the cause of his affairs, his lies and betrayals, his evilness. The only difference now is that I know that it was all HIM, I had nothing to do with that. Before the no contact, I would think that I caused this entire mess. It is very evil what they do.
You cannot remain friend, acquaintance, mutual parents with them. They will suck you right back into their darkness….all the hard work of no contact will be deleted in an instant.
Silence is the only word they hear loud and clear. Ignoring them is a thousand times better than engaging in any conversation. Nothing good came out of his mouth in 20 plus years being married to him. I now know that he will never change..he will always be evil. At the beginning I hoped for an apology , for an explanation….which I never got. Even if he did, it would not come from the heart…it would be some lie to cover up his betrayals. In the end I would be the one walking away in tears, in confusion and pain…and he would laugh behind my back. Just like he did during my marriage. I am not his puppet anymore and never will be again….there are plenty of minions who will fall for his CPT America status….glad it is not me anymore.
So if you ever hope for him taking responsibility and accountability, he won’t. Don’t waste your time hoping for something that will never happen. Instead focus on your own healing and let him be a part of his dark, evil world.
Kaya…….mine apologized all the time.
That just hooked me further. You see, I had told him that my ex husband never apologized to me.
To your point……..either way, we never will receive accountability or acknowledgementfrom them.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to share what you have learned.
Debbie I hear you. I feel the same about mine and his parents. I feel like I need to stand up for myself and not let his lies smother my character now that I know he had been lying about me all along while I was in and out of the hospital battling cancer. But you know what it may not do a difference. In my situation it’s clear that his parents knew. The parents knew something was up and not did they warn me Parents generally take care of their own. Doesn’t matter that I was with mine for more than a third of my life. Being loyal and loving. He lied when he gave me silent treatments he lied about friends I had and blamed me. Meanwhile I was the one waiting patiently to work on our relationship since he made me believe it was all my fault while he did things behind my back. Just be aware they probably will turn it around to take the power back. I am in that struggle with myself and truly sling myself if that’s what will help me have a closure after a discard. As for therapy I also hear you it’s the same situation where I live. I have found that going to a hospital gives you an oppertunity of finding some help that does not fall in the criteria of what you described. Perhaps it might be like that in Canada for you?
Please read everything on this site. It helps. A lot. The people here have helped me tremendously. You are not alone.
Mine started to apologize tears and all. Blamed his emotional immaturity on his parents and how no one communicated. I believed him for years. Even bought books and read them to help him understand family communication until I saw he really didn’t care. That’s when the apologies would stop and the silent treatments began. And then he would blame me. Saying apologies meant nothing to me. ( that’s because I would say please when you apologize for hurting someone’s feelings stop doing the actions of decisions your apologizing for. He would say sorry and continue doing it two minutes after saying sorry. Almost like that word was a reset bottom and erased your heart ache and it no longer would effect you). Then theb last year when he knew I was distant whether battling cancer and in treatments he would randomly apologize for something in a vague manner not actually telling me what the heck he was talking about. Almost like you wre talking to someone who was admist a drunken jibberish but he was totally sober. He did that when he knew I couldn’t talk. For example leaving a message when I was going in or at chemo treatment or right before an X-ray session just to know for sure I would call him right away which I would buy of course he never answered and when he eventually would- he would never explain. It got me hooked and bothered. Every single time. Be prepared that you may never get accountability and if you do for it to be their game. Looking back now it’s clear what he was doing then. Living in it it was a state of confusion.
I’m mad/upset today.
I hate my ex and I hate my ex best friend…maybe i’m just mad at myself for not discerning ALL these years and hanging out with garbage.
Yes, mad at myself.
I’m waiting for a week-to 2 weeks for a therapist to call me to schedule as a new patient.
She hasn’t even called.
Remember,
I’m having a day to. At home sick. It’s rainy. All I’ve wanted/needed to do today is sleep. Every time I close my eyes I keep replaying things in my head. All the crap he did to con me. All the lies. He’s subtle meanness. How loving he seemed. His explosive temper. Him saying how I’m the only person who has ever felt him feel mean and not like the nice guy he really is. How everyone adores him. Even my ex best friend. How he’s tried to convince everyone I’m crazy, including myself when the fact is I KNOW WHAT he IS. Surely I’m not the only one that knows?
I used to hate how he talked about other people. His criticism. How he knew what was best for everyone. In the beginning I would tell him how I didn’t like how he spoke of his friends and was so critical. He would lecture me on how I was his girlfriend and was supposed to be there to listen to him vent. If only everyone could see him. I’m assuming they will over time. When I found the blog he made years ago, none of his so called long life best friends were in any of the pictures. And many of the pictures were at big events where they should be present? I think that may be something right there.
He had an ex girlfriend for 4 years. He said he moved out because she didn’t discpine her kids and he couldn’t stay around for her parenting any longer. He made her out to be a selfish preMadonna. When I was in the stage of looking up his life for answers, I found she was off the radar. No social networking, nada. Only her name. Hmm, I wonder why that is? Not so common these days unless there’s a reason, as we know too well….
I’m so pissed and feeling sorry for myself. I’m stewing on everything right now. Grrr
I’m sorry about the therapist. That’s a long wait. Do you have any other options? I assume your limited, otherwise you wouldn’t be waiting…
Kittylover and HM – Thank you for the specific responses to my posts. I appreciate the wisdom when I am not thinking clearly. I suspect my brain knows what to do, but my heart is still fighting progress. Maybe it is time to punch some pillows…..
I thought it might be a trick too. And I was thinking that she wrote me to tell me that she loves me and will respect my decision. That may have been kind to let me know my message was received and acknowledged, however the flip side is that another email arrived after I asked for no more contact. This is the scale of justice, right or wrong,,,kind or unkind…spath or just misunderstood.
I don’t like or understand how I can do the right thing and be so sad. Shouldn’t one feel BETTER when they do the right thing? I understand the programming aspect….
A sudden depression like a TONE OF BRICKS has hit me.
started about 15 mins ago.
was just playing piano for the residents (and sucking) and BOOM
My “partner”, lover, boyfriend/friend/fiancé…
THAT MAN THAT WAS SO CRAZY ABOUT ME the past year…
well it is Friday…
Friday afternoon….
and we will not be together tonight.
I am not speaking of the lying, cheating, conman who should literally be behind bars.
THERE IS NOT ANYTHING I could have done is there to have avoided his cheating… discard.. bad intentions all along?
It was not b/c I got anxious the last few months…
not only had to leave job I loved… but got new, more difficult position, but most of all…
something deep deep deeeeeep down inside me…
felt that his word and his actions did not reflect on another.
Okay….so he said I love you, or texted or messaged… honestly.. 15 times a day or more.
But….
HE WAS STILL LIVING IN MY ONE BEDROOM APT. FOR FREE…
that I moved into alone to heal a year ago and stay in recovery after being in treatment for and eating dis. ptsd from something else… and Major Depressive disorder..
he made three times more than me…
but… did not pay an electric bill.. or wifi..
Yes.. he proved to me.. I saw his paychecks from the Fire Dept were docked almost 2,000 bucks a piece. alimony to an exwife of 22 years… and three kids.
he told me a credit card company was docking him 500 a month also….
I do not remember seeing that…
but I know he owes tons of money.
But… then he would drop 200 bucks.. which was a lot to him… on taking my parents who were visiting and I out for a great dinner.
Im sinking in my office right now. I am running out of energy to fight the weight of the memory of this evil. an evil that vibrated ever cell of my being.. AND I INVITED IT!
or for xmas and bday. he bought me a coach bag.. but… took it back by the way when I asked him to leave.
He did not buy one thing for one of his kids. Nothing. He was jealous b/c his exwife is doing well.. and gave them lots of presents. I found it odd that he was angry that his kids got great gifts and he did not have to pay a cent! If Id only known…
he made it all look as if these “character flaws” of narcissism were just “temporary” reactions to the wrongs others had recently done to him. I thought these weird actions were temporary b/c he had lost his second job for verbal assault… he had broken his leg in oct… but it was well healed already by dec.
I felt guilty for both things and was sure to assist that emotion.
the one he verbally assaulted … and that my boss fired and had banned… was ME.
Who loves to ice skate and so he made a date for us to take his tow daughters ice skating?
ME!
So, I now see that he felt entitled for me to pay his way thru life, get him a used car… when I am in DESPERATE need of a car myself.
I am sinking in my office at the moment.
this heavy heavy darkness has come over me.
at lunch… I helped out at a Memorial Day bbg outdoors with 80 nursing home/wheelchair bound residents and was the life of the party loving on them all.
RIGHT NOW I WANT TO DIE.
I WOULD OT HURT MYSELF. DO NOT WORRY.
BUT THE TRUTH THAT THIS MAN WAS A FRAUD. THAT I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN
THAT HE WENT SOOOO OUT OF HIS WAY TO DECEIVE IT IS PATHETIC.
Imagine if he had just put that energy into sending out resumes to other Physical Therapy companies?
a few times during love making… just because of my past… I would look him straight in the eye and ask, “Are you for really baby? Do YOU PROMISE? I HAVE BEEN HURT AND DECEIVED TOO MANY TIMES.”
I would have tears sometimes when he would reply yes…. everything about him was real and he was madly in love with me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me.
“YOU PROMISE BABY? YOU PROMISE THIS IS NOT TOO GOOD TO BE REAL… YOU ARE NOT TOO GOOD TO BE REAL… ?
“No Baby…. this is real. You have nothing to be afraid of. I LOVE YOU.”
……………………..
and here I am … writing LOVEFRAUD on a Friday afternoon… with the sadness and loss pulling me into the ground.. and my just saying to the ground…
“Take me… I cant do this anymore. I cant live in a world where such evil walks. I cant live having seen this evil so up close and with no witnesses.”
Kitty
I feel you. I’ve been like that for almost a week. Some nights harder than others.
I too was recovering from a bad childhood and actually the ptsdof it and leaving that and putting myself through school and work when I met mine. I was stupid and I told him everything that was done to me. ( little did I realize I gave him ammunition for the next decade of my life which I see now he used in very subtle and cunning ways. I still can’t make a list of all the bad things because it hurts too much. It really hurts. I just want the hurting to stop).
Mine would over and over promise me that he would never do anything like that to me. He loved me and promised me. He even said he wouldn’t abandon me because he knew what happened with my father. It never stopped his silent treatments and calling me crazy because I would get so desperate for a response. Anything. Anything to take me out of the misery. I’m not proud of how I reacted. I probably looked crazy to anyone who didn’t know my childhood and why the courts took me out of that situation. But when someone knows you have a past of being abused and abandoned they should never use that against you. I believed his lies too. I believed him saying he didn’t remember or misunderstood or wasn’t educated in psychology. I believed his promises but the more aware I got by hints said by nurses at doctor appointments the more I questioned. The more I saw his words didn’t meet his actions. Ever. I mean ever. To the point that Inever knew if we made plans if he would show up. Always blaming me. You must have forgotten you’re the sick one. I’m not so k right. When I would write things down he would say I was loosing my hearing. It was always misdirection for anything. I realize that now. But then I believed him. I loved him. Or who I thought he was.
I miss him during the nights. Or when I have a free day and the sun is shining. Remembering all the things he’s promised to do with me. I see now he never had that intention. It was just something to say when you see the person fighting cancer I guess. But I miss him. Deeply miss him. I have to come to terms that he knew everytime I was desperately sad with the silent treatments. With the ditching me. With the fake promises. When someone who actually loves you it’s simple. They love you. I never did that to him. I never lied. I never fibbed. I never gave him the silent treatment. I spoke. I communicated. In any and every shape I could. I always made sure my words turned to action and I was always there and if I wasn’t capable of picking up my phone I would always respond. I would never hurt him the way he has treated me.
I truly believe they are aware of what they were doing. It’s a hard pill to swallow but no one had a gun to their heads while they lied or cheated. They made that choice in that moment. People with intergrety and with a heart wouldn’t exploit others. That’s my belief. I think them lying to us while all of us are vulnerable is abuse. They are abusing our loyalty the faith of the relationship and calculatively taking us and controlling us to be their puppets. How do we detach from their promises? How do we detach from the lies? This is where I’m at. Just know kitty you deserved better. We all deserve better.
It’s a wonder why this is legal. All these abuse stories and why these monsters are allowed to walk free.
Anyone in their journey, how have you made peace with them lying to you with promises made to exploit your trust and made it out of the depression that follows? How do you “let go”?
Is it time? Is it repetitive reading and reinforcing their evil? What methods do you use when you miss the person your spath rod you they would be or showed minutely they were or could be but couldn’t keep it up?
I know I’ve missed mine terribly since I woke up from surgery. I’m still in the wtf how could he do this to me stage? To reading and to what kitty is describing. I haven’t hit anger yet. What methods or books have helped you?
hi bluelight
you did not make a mistake in telling your past to your ex”you trusted him like a normal person trusts another in a relationship..you nor i, did not know these kind of people existed and we poured our hearts out to them. we did not know they would use that against us. we had no reason to think that would happen when they are promising us the moon and the stars, and we are the only ones that are so important”you must believe it is not your fault. wouldn’t you tell anyone you are in a relationship with about your past?
as far as making peace because they lied”i believe some people do and some don’t make peace. some situations are horrendous and there is no forgiving, but if you read articles they say it is best for you to come to terms and forgive them. i am not there yet. it has only been 10 months that i have been dumped and discarded and have a very hard time still dealing with the lies and deceits that were fed to me. it is so hard to let go..i learned NC was the best possible answer. it is so hard to do it but you can do it. many women on here will tell you it is THE number one thing you can do. with time it does improve. it took months for me to get to that point and i still have doubts. but i can tell you the less he is in the picture, the better it becomes. that means no emails, pictures, social media, communicating with anyone related to him”get rid of everything that connects him to you..its hard, do it slowly if you have to, but it is a must for the healing process..
they may hoover, as mine did. it set me back because i communicated with him. he originally dumped me after three years to marry another woman he had been secretly with, i knew about her but he told me there was nothing between them. we had one last vacation together and he went back to his home (we were long distance) and not even a week later told me they were marrying”huh??? the woman who through our relationship i had doubts about? the one he continued to reassure me that was nothing to him? i begged and cried and pleaded with him not to do this”he kept telling me he was unsure of what he was doing by marrying her”he even tried to get me to hate her by telling me she was coming between he and i..ugh i could go on and on…
i went no contact after coming to LF and all the wonderful advice from everyone led me to NC. he did re contact me after four months and told me he was sorry, wanted me back, hated his wife, she was ugly, she was this and that”he had me believing him and second guessing he was disordered…only to email back the very next day telling me he now loved his wife”who the F does that???
after several times of recontacting i am more than convinced he is a lunatic”he does the same tactics each time”tells me he loves me and wants to leave her, needs to be with me and he will do anything”then the very next day will tell me he loves his wife”how many times can a person consciously do this and feel ok with himself??
we still miss them, i do often. i have good and bad days. but the beginning like you, i was missing him 24 hours a day, i was crying all the time, i was miserable..you will survive this. there are different stages you will most probably go through..sad, anger and sadness together, missing him”.we are normal humans, it is normal for us with empathy to feel this way..
write a list of the bad vs the good”see what you come up with”keep it and read it daily, come on LF and spill your soul, there are many her to help you”
the posts are all mixed up and can’t find your experience, would you mind filling me in briefly?
Jane thank you for your post. I still do beat myself up for being so honest about my childhood with him and don’t think I should share that with another man in the future. I know I can’t bare to go through this again. I’m sorry to hear about what he did to you. It’s awful. The lies when you love them. How anyone could lie to someone just to go and marry someone else “out of the blue”, does he not realize how her tless that makes him look? These men really have no soul. My story is I was with him for more then a decade. Long term gf right out of college. Helped him, was his best friend and then when I noticed inconcistancies he would explain I would believe and if I didn’t drop it the silent treatments started. Sometimes for days, weeks and one other time months ( the first time I know for sure he cheated). There were a lot of red flags. But I loved him. He treated me pourly. Every holiday or birthday he would cause a disagreement ( any time my opinion wasn’t like his I was criticizing him which meant a silent treatment was around the corner). Friends started to question and see how he spoke to me, how I was treated. I got more and more isolated. Fast forward a few years, me helping him out finacially, letting him live with me but he always “lived” with his parents I got Cancer. While my journey changed quickly, he was never there. But demanded to be the medical person in charge when I wasn’t conscious. The doctors could never get a hold of him when needed and I am told he was very arrogant, mean and rude to the staff. He would call but never visit. Never answer his phone. I was alone. All my good friends where it in the same city so he was the one I depended on. But each treatment or doctor visit, or test even though he would say he was on his way he ditched me. Left me confused. Then blamed me later. A lot of gas lighting I see now and constant confusing me and getting very verbally aggressive to abusive when I questioned. In my state I believed him and blamed myself. He would love bomb me or ignore me and the cycle would repeat. He’d be nice for a few days and get what he wanted and boom. The most recent was an emergency surgery. I could have died. He had an argument with the doctors prior but they never got his consents for the type of surgery and after care. He litterally left me to die. If it wasn’t for my friends I wouldn’t be alive today. When I awoke the doctors had warned me that he was what he is and I started to do my research and found this site when coming home to heal. I haven’t contacted Jonas I used to when he silenced me. I am taking one day at a time. I never was allowed at his work. I’ve met his family early on in the relationship but was kept far away from his work friends. Since then I’ve found lies he has told to his mother. Photos of other females in my home while I was away with this surgery and such. He still has the things the hospital sent him while still thinking he was a trusted boyfriend. Mainly expensive things and irreplaceable things of friends who have died and even the remains of my dear per while I was in the hospital. I’m past the numb stages. I haven’t missed him today I am just hurt and taking care of myself and trying to focus on my care.
(Sorry if this is long).
Thank you again for all your words. It’s helping me understand. So far i am extremely thankful for this site. I have started my list of good and bad behaviors today to remind me. We all deserved better ladies. Sending hugs to each and everyone of you reading this.
I’m starting too remember and realize more things the past few days. We had cycles, and they were rapid.
I’m mad that I can’t just roam and socialize freely now because I do not want to run into him- or the mutal ladies that may or may not be hanging with him. One he was trying to charm up on fb 1 day after our breakup. Now i’m hiding out. I hope he has misery!!!
Blue….
I am speechless to this post of yours.
It is so true to what has happened to me. Not to mention anytime I spoke about being adopted… I start to cry.
You know how kitties,, cats use their paws and kind of “play” with their prey…. before… BOOM… they get serious and go in for the kill.
That was mine.
here he is living with and off of me….. and if he got angry.. not only did he also stonewall… till I got crazy.. b/c it was so abusive to ignore someone who is taking care of you with a broken leg… every penny she has and you are living off of her scott free while she stuggles, sacrifices and changes her entire life around.
He would get angry at me… get out trash bags, start to pack his things… grab his computer, act as if her were leaving. I would panic. I would start crying. soon Id be blocking the door and holding on to him like a child… begging him not to leave. “I’m sorry. It was me baby. Ill work on it. I love you… you love me… let’s not end this!”
it was insane… I would literally lose my mind.
HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING AN HOW ENTERTAINING THIS MUST HAVE BEEN FOR HIM AND HIS EGO.
and if he did leave… hed not contact me for days or once a week…
so while I am attending alanon meetings.. my therapist…
crying to friends.. trying to recover but still missing this man I loved.. and still believing his twisted perception that it was my fault he left….
I’d still be that aching child. that desperate addict.
that lonely little girl who at five years old was told her “real mommy and daddy did not want her.”
as I was still in that shattered state…
HE’D SHOW UP.
boom.. all my pain gone.
IT WAS REAL. HE DOES LOVE ME. I AM NOT CRAZY. He’s agreed to go to therapy… and wow… the last time? he even went to a shrink and went on meds he does love me… he says he wants to get better b/c hes never loved someone as much in his life and does not want to lose me. to lose us.
I’m sorry to hear he would do that. Reading your discription made me cry. It brought me right back. Mine would do the exact same. I would react the exact same. I couldn’t eat sleep whenever he would silence me. And just when I would have enough and give up all hope boom he was back and either “forgiving me”, “apologizing and promising future changes”(which now looking back he never changed. Just got colder and more emotionally abusive but never kept his word of meeting me halfway or caring about both of our needs.).
You are right with the cat. Your are absolutely right. They knew. Thinking about it. They knew how to work us. They probably got something out of it. I don’t believe in coinsidences anymore because of the fact that everytime I was at my last drop of energy and was about to give up. There he was! And just like that all my pain would disappear and I would be thankful.
No one should ever be treated this way. I know this now. I would never make anyone succumb to that emotional pain and please know you didn’t deserve it either. He was sick. Only sick sick people without hearts can do this.
Blue,
No, I haven’t quite made peace with all the lies and abuse yet, butI have a peace withmyself.
I finally got past shock and grief and major depression and weight loss stomach issues and fatigue.
I go back and forth between acceptance and anger.
First I read the Gift of Fear, to recognize the behaviors of the harrassment and stalking to asses if it would escalate.
Then I think I did Without a Conscience and The Sociopath Next door.
I want to order Women who Love Psychopaths and Donna’s book.
I watch all kinds of You tube videos on Npd Socios and Ps.
It takes time, support, and therapy usually too if you can.
I am trying to find a new therapist who deals with this type of issue.
Thank you. I made a list of all the books I need to read while still healing. It makes all the difference.
I’m sorry you had to go through your difficult journey. Thank you for letting me know where you are in it. If anything I’m proud of you ( all of the ladies here). I keep reading the posts here even when I don’t have enough strength to type back- it gives me insight, and makes me feel less alone. These monsters seem like they are all cut from the same cloth.
Remembertoforget, I can’t find your post to respond LOL….I read it earlier but had to go and do some chores now I’m back and can’t located. I can’t remember what you wrote…so I can’t respond. Sorry…Ill keep looking for it.
Amille, how are you? I apologize if you reposted back to me as I have been off my computer the past few days installing new software and have lost your post location.
Hi Jan7, how kind of you to ask. I really appreciate it! No worries. Yes, I’m trying to figure out the best way to keep track of posts…..posts within posts.
I did mention you in an earlier post discussing me breaking NC the other day. How in his email to me that he said that “even if you have all the facts, you can still come to the wrong conclusion.” Made me think of your “what?!!??
I have to say I’m feeling a little better since I deleted the email account; called my cell carrier and made sure I had properly blocked his number. It is like a weight has been lifted really. I see why NC truly is the answer.
I was a little worried because he kept telling me he isn’t going to show up on my doorstep. That made me think he IS going to show up. But then I thought, Huh, I wonder if he kept saying that because he is afraid I will show up on his door step and out him to his wife.
That led me to read about “tells” and 180 rule.
Did your ex do that with you alot? Project what he did onto others? So he appeared to be the saint, the helper, etc. when in fact he was the one that was engaging in the “bad” behavior.
May I assume that a lot of what the spath told me his brothers did, he was the one actually doing them? More memories flooding in on that. But I’m learning to embrace these memories now. They are the validation I need to realize I have made the right decision to leave him……..to go NC.
Otherwise, I had a pretty good day. I was actually a little sick of myself :), so I went outside and got some sun………planted some flowers, nominated a coworker for a reward…let the cat boss me around for a bit….
I hope all is well with you. And thank you again for caring. It means a lot.
Hi Amille, you should be so proud of yourself for taking the necessary steps for the no contact rule. You are correct it is the only way to have peace & calmness in your life again.
Sociapoths will try to suck you back in everyday….this is where you have to find your inner strength. They try to bait their victims back into their game some times endlessly or with long periods of time with no contact from them.
His bait:
“even if you have all the facts, you can still come to the wrong conclusion”….he is throwing hook, line & sinker out to have you call him to have him “explain things”…if you know he is married there is nothing to explain…what lies do you think he would come up with?
maybe “well we are really separated but because of financial reasons or the kids we live in the same house together?”
or maybe “we don’t have the money for a divorce?”
or he will shift the blame to you once you get on the phone with him etc
or “I love you & only you”….while he tells his wife the same thing.
Funny thing in his comment is FACTS are FACTS…no need for him to fill in the lines with more info as he has stated if you have the facts. So his statement “even if you have all the facts”, well what other explanation do you need from him? nothing!! He will only LIE LIE LIE to you…and when you catch him in new lies guess what he will lie more. This is what my husband did with out even an eye batting.
YES…you are understanding how sociopaths talk & think…it’s all a mind game to them…I am sure he is very nervous that you will show up on his door step to tell his wife the truth about what he has been doing, that he is a liar, cheater, manipulating sociopath…but I am also sure he has started a smear campaign with lies about you to his wife…this is what they do and masterfully too. Protect your home too because you never know if he will go over the deep in and break into your home…his statement is a statement you have to be prepared for anything.
Sociopaths project onto others…you said that he stated his son had a temper tantrum on day and like you thought he was most likely the one…as for his brother…my ex h brother was a sociopath as well. So you have to think to yourself that his brother or other family members i.e. parents could be sociopaths as genetically this personality runs in families.
Your mind is opening up…that is a good thing…like you state you want to remember his lies & manipulation as that will protect you from him if contacts you and to remind yourself why you left and why nc is the only way to go. I did the same everything I read when I first left I analyzed the info with my ex h actions…it sank into my mind quickly…now I remember no good times…because honestly there were no good times but he had my mind so twisted up that I thought there were good times.
Sounds like you had a great day! 🙂 Great time of year to be outside in the sunshine…love planting flowers & watching them grow!! LOL cats are the boss…I miss my little girl…she lived a full life but still it’s heart breaking to let them go on to heaven.
Everything is good with me, thank you for asking.
Your welcome 🙂 take care too!
I’m sure he has started to warn her about me. That makes it even more appealing not to show up.
It does, however, make me feel really bad for her. I can’t imagine what she goes through with him. She must be wondering why he is talking about me…..I would think by now there is a pattern with him…..that deep down she knows.
I didn’t fall for the “facts” comment. I just remember thinking it made absolutely no sense. In fact, I really didn’t respond to anything he said directly.
Why bother?
Amille2
By him speaking about you to this woman, you’re right, she must be wondering why??
That’s a good point…down the road if he does what a typical spath does, to her, she can look back and the fact he speaks about you continually is a red flag that she most probably didn’t notice
I think you are most likely right that she knows on a lesser level that he is cheating but due to lack of proof & the fact that he most likely has her so mentally, emotional & physically exhausted everyday because of his constant mind games, manipulation, drama, & chaos that she just can’t think straight enough to sort it all out also she maybe financially stuck because of his excessive spending habit (if he has one like most socioapths).
She is in survival mode. She most likely has health issues from the stress she is under because of him. Think about every time he left their house to go see you…did he lie to her and say he was going on a business meeting out of town or did he start a fight so he could leave for a few days to be with you. They play nothing but mind games and the wife is the first person in line for their abuse and manipulation. This constant craziness they do wears you out while you are trying just to get through the daily job grind, taking care of the kids, and daily chores.
Throw in the fact that he maybe physically abusive to her as well and uses intimidation on her not to leave. There is no doubt though in the back of her mind she wants out of the marriage.
It’s not easy to leave a sociapathic husband they have destroyed your health, your friendships, your job, and with their spending most likely in financial ruin. You literally crawl on all fours out of their hell they have created.
Count your blessing Amille that you did not get sucked into his life that you were able to keep your life separate so that you did not lose friendships or family do to his manipulation. Plus he did not destroy you financially. Not to minimize what he did to you…you are also a victim of lovefruad which is heart wrenching and so sad on so many levels too.
I am just so glad that you got out, found your way to love fraud and have learned fast that he is evil and the best thing to do is cut him out of your life forever. Lets hope that his wife finds her way out too.
Why Bother?
When I caught my ex h with the three women in two different states I serviced him divorce papers…he sent me an email minutes after receiving them stating “I thought we were going to work things out” LOL this is how they drag you back in…he previously had a two year affair and begged me to stay with him. So this is what you can expect from your ex. LIES, MANIPULATION, MIND BLOWING MIND GAMES..it’s never ending with them unless you go NC.
I do consider myself lucky that all he robbed me of was 5 years of my time.
I feel twinges of guilt by even complaining.
I can’t imagine what those on this site endured by being married. You meant your vows when you said them. How awful it felt when you found out he was leaving to see the other woman… Someone like me.
Makes me ill to think I caused her pain. If I thought I could safely reach out, I would. When I was looking for those pesky facts about him….I found a FB profile in her name….friends with his friends. No picture tho….no access to her profile. Call me paranoid but it makes me wonder if he put that out there….either to triangulate or to see if I would try and contact her.
All I can do is silently tell her I’m so sorry.
Amille, I want to apologize for not expressing my post better to you. YOU are an equal victim as myself and everyone here. I did not mean to minimize what happened to you. You are correct your time was taking and that is the most valuable thing that a human has and it can not be replaced ever.
Last night after I typed my post I was thinking while I was laying in bed that I needed to clarify my statement….there are many levels to the sociopaths destruction of their victim….time like you pointed out is on the top of the list. I think for me that is the thing that if I think about it will make me cry on the spot the most.
Wives of sociopaths are destroyed by all the daily craziness, drama & chaos…it literally exhaust you to a point that most wives end up with health issues from the daily longer term stress or bed ridden. This too can happen to the gf of a sociopath to control them or if they are being discarded for a new gf.
Financially a sociopath will attempt to con everyone…for me and a lot of wives my ex has our finances in mess…and every time I tried to unravel the mess he would create more of a mess…it was like putting out one fire only to have him start 100 more each time. I felt stuck in the marriage because of this. But this too can happen to the gf’s.
It’s so much craziness…so many lives destroyed by these evil people and the sadist thing for victims is their trust for others is destroyed.
Im sorry I am not thinking so clearly today to really express myself better to you. We are all victims and your post are helping me to understand the other side of what my ex h’s other victims went through and how he treated them too.
Amille, I just wanted add that you are a kind hearted person…I think his wife will know the same if she does find out the truth especially if she down the road learns he is a sociopaths and contacts you.
Thank you for your posts. I think it is good that this site is for all victims because we all get to fill in the blanks with each side of the victims stories.
Oh Jan, you don’t need to apologize. I know what you meant. I feel bad sometimes that I may come off callous by not wanting to warn his wife.
I guess at this point, I feel like contacting her means contacting him. I don’t want him coming after me. I have two children I need to protect. I already have guilt there too for bringing the monster into our home….their lives.
I know who she is though. She was seeing him when I first started in that class. Then I heard they broke up….from other people in the class. They said she showed up crying….following him around….begging to take her back.
I, of course understand now that this means he cruely discarded her at one point.
His version to me was that he broke it off…..she started stalking him. You see, I believed him because I had heard from others that they broke up. His story was validated.
Of course he failed to mention that she ended up moving in with him.
I know this sound may sound really naive, but I thought he was keeping me from his family/friends because he was afraid someone would tell me the truth about his first divorce. I didn’t believe his wife was as awful as he claimed. In fact, I called him out a couple of times on that.
And then throw in all the love bombing….how could be married/living with someone else since he text me all the time to tell me he loved me…..missed me………couldn’t wait to see me again.
If I really thought he was married, I would have walked. And I have now that I know.
I was thinking yesterday that I have to restablish my thoughts on “researching” someone should I choose to date in the future. There were so many times I could have picked up his phone and found the truth sooner. However, I always thought if I felt compelled to do that……then there are definite trust issues……I still think that. I have to find that middle ground I guess.
You have helped me so much these last couple of weeks. I cannot thank you enough for sharing all your wisdom.
I also meant to say that I’m so sorry about your cat. They really are members of the family, aren’t they? My guy was abandon and I took him in…..even though I didn’t think I liked cats. LOL, he has trained me to think otherwise 🙂
Thanks again Jan.
Amille, I am all about warning the other victims like I have told you I warned all the other women my ex h was with once I was told by a counselor that he was a psychopath. I could not live with myself if something had happened to them at the hands of my evil ex.
But with that said, I was in a safe place, in a building that had high security and I moved to state across the country to be away from him. Had I been in the same town I don’t know what I would have done.
For you, you are correct your safety and your children’s safety is your up most responsibility now.
I have been pondering your story and also how my ex treated me…for the first few years of marriage I was so busy building my career and our business that I never question him about his behavior and in the back of my mind I wondered if he was cheating with women that would come into our business…but you start doubting your thoughts never had a questioned a past bf about this….but once I did start to call bs on his manipulation & lies that is when the abuse because worse. That is when he started to break me down emotionally & mentally with gas lighting abuse and other abuse. That is when he was setting me up for discard but he never discarded me. That is when I really wanted to leave him.
I look back and I never wanted to date him, move in with him, marry him but he just keep at it to he got his way. I wonder if it was the same with all the women he cheated with?? Not that it matters really.
I can tell you from my side that my ex h would tell me how much he loved me, thanked me for marrying him, send me flowers, buy me gifts on business trips with his mistress co worker, thanked me for not leaving him, we had sex weekly, now I just think he is a sex addict for all the sex he had with all his victims.
Plus a porn addition and who knows if he went to strip joints while he would travel on business. So for you don’t believe his lies about his wife…did they have conflict..ABSOLUTELY….did they have arguments…YES…but I think if you were to hear his wife side you would not only be shocked but you will know that he is a master manipulator at triangulating you & his wife to control you from ending the relationship with him and that the reason why his wife was fighting with him was because of his behavior, manipulation, cunningness, evilness.
You state “I know this sound may sound really naive, but I thought he was keeping me from his family/friends because he was afraid someone would tell me the truth about his first divorce. I didn’t believe his wife was as awful as he…”
I remember once that one of my ex h friend from his hobbies, divorced his wife moved in with his mother, found a new gf, dated her for 4-5 years but never told her that he lived with his mother. She was mad at his friends for not telling her…but his friends had no idea that he had not told her. I always thought this guy was very masterful at smear campaign with his ex wife and I never believe his stories of her…looking back at his behavior of not telling his very nice longer term gf that he lived with his mother is mind blowing…why keep that a lie? what else was he doing behind her back.
This is a guy that I would only see a few times a year so I had no idea. But now I think he was a narcissist for sure. As for his gf why did she not demand to go to his apt/house? I am sure that her bf lied to her about his situation…maybe it was too far of a drive for her after work or he like her place better. they will come up with plausible lies to turn peoples heads away.
I think your ex keep you away from his family because he was cheating on his wife…how does he explain that his wife is not at a family function but his “friend” is…wouldnt the family call her and say hay why is your husband with this other woman?
You state: I was thinking yesterday that I have to restablish my thoughts on “researching” someone should I choose to date in the future.
I was flipping channels one night and I think it was Dr Drew’s show (counselor) stated two things women need to do before getting serious with a guy….get him tested for std’s & do a back ground check on him plus call ex gf. This is the world we live in. For me Donna (LF) has posted so many post about the dangers of online dating that I would never go that route ever.
You have helped me too 🙂 I always think that the sociopaths had no idea that all the victims would join forces to lift each other up & to heal together…so empowering and a reminder that their are good people in this world.
As for my sweet little cat…she was a stray cat that I would feed and when she warmed up to me I took her to the vet for a check up. She was not ready to move in until one night in the middle of the night she won the lottery and decided to move in without waking me up. She was a little sassy, smart, cleaver , loving, independent little girl who would make you laughs with her antics sometimes I would think that she knew exactly what she was doing to make me belly laugh. Glad you have someone sweet to cheer you up on your sad days 🙂
Jan,
Whenever you post and ds
Remembertoforget…what does ds mean?
Amille,
I want to comment on you having encountered this for 5 years. Yes, there are strong survivors on here that were married for years, but please don’t minimize your experience. 5 years is a long time!!!!
When I first joined LF almost a year ago, it was after I dated a spath for 8 months who ended up stalking me (he’s stopped recently, I think) and then a man I dated for 3 months prior to #1 popped back into my life and I ended up in another 8 month relationship of hell with a spath (even worse than #1). He preyed on me.
After #1 I felt almost guilty writing on here because it was such a short amount of time. And I wasn’t married to either of them, nor was I the other woman. From my time on here, I’ve learned that although our experiences differ, all of our experiences hurt us to the core, took ourselves from us and yet we are all survivors.
I made a long drive to see a fried today and thought of you and what I’ve read of your situation. It made me smile to think of all of us on LF uniting. Previous married survivors communicating with “the other” women, survivors like me who were “just” in relationships, friends victimized by spaths, etc. All of us supporting each other, seeing each others sides. Acceptance, support and friendship.
I am so grateful we all found this site! Thank you all, for your love. And thanks to you especially Donna for your gift of healing. 🙂
Thistoo… Thank you for your reassurance. I just don’t want people to feel as if I knowingly entered this “relationship” with a married man….that I found out and stayed.
The minute I found out he was with someone else, I handed his belongings back to him. Told him it was over.
At that point, I realized everything was a lie. That all the questions I had, he explained with more lies…..
He was great at taking a kernal of truth and wrapping layers upon layers of lies around it.
Came in handy in silencing the doubts.
I have been doing much reading and watching videos on trusting your instincts; the gift of fear….
Jan7, when I met him I was not looking for a relationship. I had only been divorced for a year. I had/have full custody….my ex is long distance and rarely sees his children… of two children, full time job, house, family, friends. I was busy.
I had limited time to give him because my children come first (and were quite young at that time) I wasn’t anxious to introduce him to the kids or my family until I knew more; I didn’t want to go to his family functions at the expense of mine during holidays and such. I had too much of that when I was married and lived a state away. My parents are older and declining in health. I wanted to be with them.
I certainly didn’t want to get married again.
All this made me the perfect supply, don’t you think? I wasn’t making demands on him or his time.
He had me over to his house and met his parents just enough to squash doubts. Told those lies that he masterfully wrapped around small slivers of truth…or let’s say what I thought were truth because I heard the “stories” from others. And then as we discussed, he was always talking about me to his family and friends. Yeah right. That kept me hooked tho.
I am perplexed by his parents too. What did he tell them about the gifts I sent? Maybe he never gave them? Maybe the thank you notes were really from him….handwriting disguised? Who knows? And I never will know.
He was always trying to triangulate me with his ex wife. But that didn’t work in the sense that I am an ex wife; I had two toddlers at one point……. When he would start with, “can you believe my ex wife….?” I would point out her side. LOL, I wonder if that frustrated him when I did that? That I related more with her than him?
He had the last laugh. He successfully triangulated me with two other women at the gym where we worked out. That was about 8/9 months ago. I look at that as the beginning of the end now.
That was another thing that squashed doubts. He was very demonstrative at the gym. If you asked people about us there? They would tell you we were a couple.
I agree that if I spoke to his ex wife….the woman he lives with now, I would hear a different version of him…..completely different. I have no doubt that he has hurt them deeply…. More so than what he did to me. I realize I don’t know him at all….other than he is a good liar, manipulator. Funny, I had a very vivid dream last night that someone tried to warn me about him….sent me newspaper articles from the past.
It is why I am staying as far away from him as possible.
Amielle,
Mine hid me kept me from his only family around, sister and cousin, and he wasn’t married!
He doesn’t seem to care about them, and avoided them all while his cousin lives right across from me, a few feet.
They were trying to see us, and he would hide in my apartment. It makes me hate him.
His lies had slivers of truth too, though some were just completely made up.
It’s so hard sometimes.
My friend saw him out with a girl last weekend.
I deleted my email address around the same time as thistoopass did.
He would still email since March after I broke nc.
Now there is no way to send me anything.
Amille,
Oh yea, the statement about having all the facts yet possibly still come to the wrong conclusion, sounds exactly like something my ex would say!!
He is a master at trying to manipulate and twist and divert conversations.
He is a salesman- GO FIGURE! He has nothing but his mouth!
Hi Amille,
I posted to you about Steven Hassan discussing in his book Freedom of Mind that victims of cults/doemstic abues end up in those bad situations because they recently had a life change i.e. going off to school, moving, death in the family, divorce etc. Why this time? because the person’s guard is down dealing with their life change.
For me it was a move to a new state…for you a recent divorce. Yes, you were the perfect match for him with regards to your schedule & busy life. 🙁
This is a good lesson for us both to be very careful who we let into our inner circle especially when we have some type of life change.
SO brazen of him to have you over at his house…I have read sociopaths love these type of games…when they are young they want sex on their parents bed (how sick mind is that!). For my ex he would invite me to meet his mistress (I did not know they were his mistress) but looking back he LOVED to control & confuse all of us. His mistress were mainly found in our business or his other job work place. I just can image living such a deceitful life like they did…always mind games…it’s exhausting just to think about it now…where do they get all the mind energy to think these crazy ideas up and they execute them?
Planet Earth is a crazy world!
How in the world did he introduce you to his parents that day?
What in the world were his parents thinking? Did they just give up when he was a child with his manipulative behavior and learn to say nothing?
As for the presents…who knows what happen to them…my ex would have given them to me and say they were from him lol.
What about the women in the gym…do you think he was cheating with them too? Maybe ask them???? or not.
So crazy that he would parade you around the guy knowing he had a wife….there are times I just can’t wrap my head around their behavior it’s so far from my own thought system.
Glad that you have imposed the NC rule. Hopefully his wife will one day unravel the truth about her h and then find out the truth of his personality disorder to impose the NC rule too.
I am happy that you have learned the truth about this low life guy. True blessing. Your mind is sorting everything out in your dreams 🙂
Wishing you a great day 🙂
oops Parade you around the gym (not guy)
Remember, now that he has no way to contact you, has he showed up where you live? Where you work? That’s my biggest fear.
He is really, really good at playing the victim and in emotional pain. The day I asked him to leave, he almost had me convinced that I was breaking his heart.
I have no idea anymore what was the truth. Its just that some of what he told me was validated by others….or I could validate in other ways….for example I do know he was in the military; one Christmas I gave him a gift having g to do with his service and saw his name listed on a reunion/crew/company website.
He was just a master at using those bits and pieces and building a house of cards.
Is it hard living so close to his cousin?
Jan7, I have started to look into Steven Hassan. I can believe it.
I think I also let my guard down because I thought I knew him from the class. It was the type of class where everyone was friendly and we we would talk to each other about our lives. Why would someone lie in that setting? And again, my classmates would validate some of his claims. Big lesson learned there.
Wait! If your ex met his Mistresses at your business, that means they knew he was married! They just played along when he introduced you? I have to wonder what they were thinking? I’m sure he told them all sorts of lies about you. However, did they think he was a great catch? He was cheating on his wife….but he wouldn’t eventually do that to them?
I should clarify about my spath. I’m 100% sure that his current wife has been in the picture all along. I do not know if he was living with her or married to her the entire time. I could only find out so much on the internet. But trust me, you can find out a lot with a google search, local voter information, white pages….
I did not find definite info on them being married. As Donna said in one of her posts that’s hard to find. I think he is because not too long ago he started wearing a ring…made a big deal out of telling me he was wearing it so other women would know he was taken/devoted to me. At the time I thought that was unnecessary and told him I hoped he didn’t expect me to do the same.
The day I asked him to leave I asked if he was married….he brought up tears and repeated the ring was for me.
Using the 180 rule….that means the ring is for her.
To his parents….he may have brought me around before he moved her in….married her. If he discarded her once….he could have done it again. And thats when he introduced me. Or he could have told them in advance he was bringing me over…that I was simply a friend….or someone that hired him to do home repairs. I don’t recall him proclaiming me as his girlfriend… Its been awhile now since that first meeting…..I don’t remember.
I didn’t think about that. Yes, he could have regifted the presents I gave them. The supposed thank you notes from his mother kept me hooked.
Good question on the gym women. I could definitely see him pursuing one of them. The other is engaged ..not that it means anything. As luck would have it, my membership was up 2 weeks ago. I canceled. I don’t want to go back there.
There was an answer for everything!
I’m glad I discovered the truth. That you discovered the truth. That everyone on this board knows what we are up against. That we all now have an opportunity to bring positive not negative in our lives.
Enjoy your evening.
Amille, YEP they new me….I was always nice to them…but become complex about how cold & distant they became towards me while at the same time they were chummy with my ex. This is the confusion that the wive ends up in. I have always had a lot of close net friendships & long life friends. So when this would happen I would ask my ex (then h) why is she cold etc and he would tell me ahh she is “just jealous” and I would say that’s ridiculous…but I realize it was just a manipulative game turning it around onto me that I was “jealous” which I never was.
I know it’s hard to understand that part that they knew about me yet still went ahead. I know he is masterful at manipulating people & using pity play so I am sure he came up with some crazy lie about me that bonded them together. But I can tell you that I would have walked away if I were them that is just my moral side of me. But look what I put up with so far to long….I still can’t believe I did…but the whole marriage vow & you have to work at marriage think also keeps you feeling trapped and feel obligated to work on the marry.
I was desperate and went to marriage counseling at my ex request because I was done with the marriage years ago but he was so masterful at conning the counselor that I stayed….so crazy…I feel like a was in some nightmare on elm street movie..LOL…crazy when I look back and sad.
Have you typed his address into google? Then it will come up with his house listing and sometimes it list all owners of the home. Also if you go to the county clerks office in his township you might be able to obtain his marriage certificate (if they were married in that township)…not sure if you want/are interested in learning more or not about him.
Love how they manipulate the situation….”the ring was for you” LOL…hey buddy the ring means nothing to you…seriously he is caught in the ultimate lie glad you did not buy is bs!!
awesome time with the gym membership…he is probably baffled as to why you have not showed up 🙂 best NC = gym membership not renewed lol
Yes, I am so happy that we all know the truth…as hard as it was to open our minds to all of their double lives it’s very freeing to know who they really are and that ending the relationship was the only healthy thing to do.
🙂
Amille,
I can’t even imagine what you’ve gone through. 5 years of thinking you had a relationship with a single man and having to put the pieces together. I’m sure you wish you had more facts, I know I do and my situation wasn’t close to the same! Hence why he says you may know the facts but you don’t see them for what they are. I hate that! Thanks for the manipulation ex assholes! Sorry, I’m feeling feisty about it all tonight.
In my last post to you, I wasn’t trying to paint you as the “other woman”. I’m sorry, I just meant that it’s nice to have people see all sides. There are many women on here who were once married and dealt with the other woman. We often think the other woman is possibly bad, but there are many victims like you, who didn’t know their partner was married. It’s sick.
I dated spath #2 for 3 months before #1. Looking back, I think I was the other woman in the relationship. I’ve felt this way for some time. First time we dated compared to the second time was totally different! He wouldn’t friend me on FB, I met only select friends, he didn’t contact me all the time. In fact, I didn’t know if I liked him because he was critical at times and distant but overly loving at the same time. He seemed uncertain. I was strong at the time and called him out on things. I wasn’t upset when he broke up with me.
I’ve read that spaths who use other women, other than their primary source, only lomb bomb to a degree. 2nd time around with him, a whole different ball game!!
Them using a kernel of truth and rolling with it. That was the worst. I believe everything out of my ex’s mouth was a lie. I know he uses his kernels of truth on me to other people. I’ve had a hard past. Now I’m “sick” and “crazy.” Unfortunately I lost my best friend to him because of his kernels and his holds.
I’m reading the Gift of Fear now. I waited for a while because it brings up a lot about my stalker. I have to take breaks from it now and again. I’m still scared of #1 and #2 threatened to stalk me. I don’t know if he did that to mess with my mind or if he really plans to. Now that I’ve deleted all ways of contact I’m afraid he’ll show up somehow….
I read the Women who love psychopaths, The sociopath next door and Psychopath Free. I found them all helpful!
Amille,
Congrats on NC and changing your info! I finally just deleted my email accounts a couple of weeks ago…and I’m already on my 3rd phone number!
I’m writing to the post you sent Jan, because when I read what your ex wrote before you went NC “even if you have all the facts, you can still come to the wrong conclusion”, that’s exactly what mine wrote in his last email to me! He also said that even though I know the facts I will never connect the dots because I’m mentally sick. I realize our situations are different, but here’s further proof of how similar they are.
The door step thing bothers me. What did your gut initially tell you? In my experience, he may be threatening you, he may be projecting, both, who knows right now. I found that by listening to my gut I can weigh the outcome more. Just want you to be prepared, in case it is a threat. He may have kept telling you that to judge your reaction. What was your response?
I had 2 spaths in a row. Both said things like that to threaten and/or project. Overtime I’ve become better at distinguishing the difference based on their actions. Keep in mind, a lot of time they’re just talk. They want us to think about these things. Crazy mind games!
My gut says he won’t show up on my doorstep because he is afraid I will return the favor.
I did not respond to it. I didn’t directly respond to anything he said.
It was weird to read actually. He went from telling me how I was hurting him by not answering any of his text messages; to how he could understand why I don’t trust him but I should because he has been faithful the whole time; to how he hopes we can start over; to I just need to let him know if there was still a chance (when I gave him back all his stuff and asked him to leave, I didn’t know he was living with her; I found all that out after) to how he will love me forever.
There was stuff in between….like the fact that I don’t have to worry about him showing up on my doorstep; that he just wants to talk…..
I simply replied that I know the truth; that there is no going back. That I wish him all the best with her.
I figured less was more. Once I hit send, I deleted the account; called my cell carrier……
Kitty,
Ok! I remember when you were going for RO but I went to the psych that day…
Whenever you feel up to it- i’m free in evenings or Sat after work after 5… or Sun of course.
I can’t talk with anyone else outside of here, I had to cut off a social group bc of this…
Now I don’t talk to barely anyone anymore. Kinda frustrating, but they were all too into themselves to really care anyways.