UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
MY LOVEFRAUD FAMILY……
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GO SEE THE MOVIE….
“Leaving the Madding Crowd”
OH MY GOSH. My bestfriend told me to see it… that it parrelleed my life… but she would not explain further. I brought another friend with me…. and IT WAS SO THERAPEUTIC FROM being taken by a damned spath…. and it proves that even the wealthiest.. most educated, sophisticated, beautiful of women can be sucked in to the evil the deceit of a man without conscience. I LOVED THIS MOVie.
Happy Ending! And the music is beautiful. It is set in England and glorious to watch. One of the Actors (The good guy) is really cute tool. 🙂
PLEASE GO SEE..
we all need to see this movie….
she was a survivor.. and b/c of her spath… discovered what ture and real love was… not just words!
let me know how you like it!
Love,
Kitty!
Thanks for the recommendation. I’m glad it was meaningful to you.
Thistoo,
You are a survivor- and you shall survive!!!
JaneD,
I have thought similar things about his ex- she is his children’s mother, that how she dealt with him for 10 years and how she is probably glad to be away from him. Thousands of miles away!
I still get the confusion from time to time from the brainwashing or cognitive dissonance.
It hasn’t been too too long.
Thistoo, i’m gonna try to post about the boogeyman thing again.
Guess what? I had a dufus contact me today from my past that got verbal abusive with me and is a HUGE word salad freak. Yep, I had to smack him up with some boundaries. I got soo mad.
I see it all now!!!!!!!!!
Remember,
It’s so crazy that the brainwashing still gets to us. We know how horrible they are!! Even the fact my counselor gave me that packet on technology abuse today and said to look at it when I have moments I don’t believe…that’s all him. Getting into my mind. She said that’s what he wants. To scare and confuse me. For ex, I stopped getting the unknown calls. She said that’s part of the game and that he’ll resurface. Gross.
I’m so happy for the ex’s that got away….they deserve happiness. Your ex’s ex was a smart woman to move so far. I wonder how deep the story runs? A lot can happen in 10yrs.
Of course Dufus contacted you! It’s like they sense these things…when we’re healing. What did he say? What boundaries did you lay down?
I’m not sure if I told you about my dufus. We dated on and off for 3 yrs. He was in touch not too long ago. In 30 minutes he proved himself completely. I wasn’t nice about it and drew my boundaries big time. He kept contacting so I blocked him. I’m done with this abuse shit.
So excited though about my ex husband! I called my mom to tell her about my session today. I was afraid to mention I discovered he was abusing me. Turns out she wasn’t surprised at all! Hooray!!!! It feels so good to finally reach a point of closure. I know it will still be work. but at least I know now.
Thistoo,
Yippie yaaay, that you know now, and that your mom concurs.
We have been emotionally or psychologically abused by quite a few. And we didn’t even know.
I see the new therapist on Monday.
My old therapist only said, it doesn’t matter (what he was hiding) and either you learn or you don’t. That was after the breakup, right before my break-down.
Oh, the idiot clown was a guy I saw breifly but we communicated verbally for almost a year. Word salad chef. Immature, severe addict/alcoholic, that’s why I didn’t date him. I did have an emotional relationship with him for a while.
I called him after he threw his fit by text telling me if I want to be a lonely miserable bitch forever then go ahaed! Tnere was more, but extremely rude and unneccesary, because I didn’t reply how he wanted. I called him and said wtf is wrong with you? Are you mentally retarded? Don’t ever speak to me with dis-respect again. Blablabla there was more…
We fixed it later, but I have 0 desire to ever talk to him again. He is blocked. The only reason I fixed it and left on good terms is because I feared him going to my old best friend and them bashing me.
All bullshit!
They don’t like boundaries. That’swhy our ex paths bash us and smear us- they don’t like boundaries, and ya know what? People like that scare me and we should NOT feel that way, ever! ESPECIALLY by a friend or lover!!!!!!
Remember,
AMEN sister! We should not feel this way EVER. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. I was just talking about this with my counselor today. Spath #2 knows how to scare me and he’s using #1’s pattern. It’s not getting to me the same way it did with spath #1. Probably because I’m not with another abuser at the time like I was with #1! Being on my own is helping my reactions, although the psychological welfare is still hard on me with all this computer stuff.
Btw, I asked her about going to the police. She said I could to start a paper trail but they may not take me seriously (ugh this city!) and that I would need proof. Proof that I don’t have…
It’s funny, my dufus almost seemed to take my boundaries as a challenge. He didn’t even react when I pointed out his abuse. It was strange. And he still kept contacting.
I’m happy you blocked your dufus and even more happy that you didn’t date him! Imagine the damage he would’ve caused. He got so nasty with you because you didn’t respond how he wanted (like you said). They will pull out all the stops to get what they want. They will be nice to mean to nice. Whatever they find is generally effective! Little does he know you’re a different/wiser woman now….
TT,
I just get scared of them taking to fb and smearing me. My old friend, dufus, and ex path, are social media assholes, the type that will indirectly bash you and be negative all while playing a VICTIM.
That is the psychological bullshit that scares me!
You have had ugh stalking crap to deal with, even worse.
Dufus would send me flowers to my job each bday and this past v-day, even if I have a bf or if he has a gf. Soo rude.
Honestly, tne time frame 2x that I broke up with my 6 year guy- I entertained the biggest LOSERS!
Problem with spath, was that he wasn’t quite an obvious loser. Mr nice guy, family man, poor me cry baby!!!!!!!!!!!
A complete mind-f***
Remember,
FB is so handy for bad people. I’m happy we’re off! It made my life hell until I made the choice to part from it. It’s too easy to smear and fool people on social media. And to hurt in other ways.
Many people would love to receive flowers every year regardless of the relationship. It’s funny how our experiences have opened our eyes to this kind of manipulation and control. I totally agree with you that it’s rude. And not right.
I’ve entertained the biggest losers too. This experience has opened my eyes! What were we thinking?! 🙂
Remember,
I can’t seem to find/get to the last post you wrote me about what your last therapist said, the wait at the shelter and your appointment for Monday.
Bummer about the waiting list. Did you ask to get on just in case your new therapist isn’t a good fit? Hopefully she/he is!!! I’m glad you’re finally getting in.
LF is my only outlet too. I don’t know what I’d do without everyone on here. Everything that encompasses this site has helped save me.
I’m in a BAD mood right now. I mean BAD. I went to art therapy and just wanted to escape my body. My positive attitude from yesterday has vanished! So I’m just going to sit here feeling bitchy and post away!
Kaya, I was going to say thank you for sharing your story. You did say it right and I agree 100%.
Jane, you don’t want a meaner one. Mine would go back and forth and forth and back. I can see that now. It’s confusing, it’s Discusting, and it’s heart breaking. ( I’m only now discovering my true emotions of those times). It’s also very traumatic and emotionally abusive. In any case never doubt yourself. Like kata explained. No one deserves to be lied to and cheated on and treated like trash.
Thank you kitty. I definitely will hope to see it.
Thistoo, I hope you had a good day and the therapist helps.
I just came back from my doctors office to see how the numbers are, and such. In any case putting that aside my doctor the one who approached him and had the fight on the night of my surgery and called him out and let me know who he actually is had something very triggering. Very upsetting to tell me. ( don’t worry it has nothing to do with my Cancer or my recovery), but it has everything to do with him.
Apparently last week he had received two messages one on his direct line ( used for family members of any patient who is undergoing treatment) and one on the normal clinical line. So he had the nerve to call the one for family. The message was basically him snickering and asking if the doctor was still convinced of his face play and if I have finally broken down to show that I am the one who is crazy. It sounded like he was drunk because his words were slurred. In any case. It was him. I was allowed to hear it and the doctor sat me down and tried to explain to me the reasons as to why he was not surprised to have received this. I was so embarrassed ( still am) and hurt. I know I shouldn’t be surprised but what hurts the most is that he makes the effort to what? Hurt me? But all the times I was in treatment he could have been there. Used it for good. It breaks my heart how while unconscious he just flipped a switch and decided I was to be forgotten left there like a piece of garbage and I no longer existed. All because he didn’t like how my doctor spoke to him and tried to help me in the end. The second message ( I did not have the luxury to hear) was a women claiming to be his gf asking to speak to his “doctor” and to call her on a number. That was my oncologists office and my team of doctors. They assured me it was mine. In any case it’s not surprising that he had another victim by now but why are you calling my doctors office? Leave me alone. My doctor also gave me a referral to someone who deals with trauma ( expensive as anything 500$/hr) is it that expensive near you?
My doctor was not offended ( thank god but I was apologizing for this obscene behavior), and assured me that it wasn’t my fault and I need to focus on my recovery and that my healthcare information is always confidential. Tomorrow I see the lawyer in regards to getting my things back. I don’t know if I should mention this or not. Right now I feel violated and betrayed. I also am not surprised and trying to tell myself this in his head is all about him. So why wouldn’t he bother people. I’m heart broken because he wants me to break down and hurt me that much. I don’t deserve it. I don’t understand why he would want me to hurt so much. Especially since I wasn’t there when it happened and it’s obvious he is blaming me and wants me to look crazy. I have done nc since the doctor told me what he thought he was and why. The last I had left was a message telling him I woke up and saying my boundaries. That was before the nc. Up until now beside his mother on Mother’s Day I have not heard a word. If anyone has experienced something like this please, can I have some advice? What does this mean? Should I worry? Is my health care information really not at risk? And how do I know for sure? I’m trying to keep calm. I’m reading the red flags to remind me of him and not the sweet loving guy he pretended to be after silent treatments. I’m trying to keep everything in perspective. Is hard.
I’m also emotional.
bluelight,
I am so sorry for you and am sending you love. I don’t want to alarm you, but I am very worried for you. And yes, you should be worried. Your ex is displaying significant stalking signs. And as we know, he has stalked you previously. His calls concern me. The fact that a woman called claiming to be his gf is concerning. Keep in mind she may not be his gf.
My spath #1 had strangers contact me. I even talked to one on the phone claiming she was someone else who was concerned about him…she claimed he was dating her friend from a chat site. turns out she was phishing for information about him to see what I’d say. These men will go to every length to get what they want, harm us and tarnish our reputations. I’m so glad your Dr was transparent with you.
I want to make sure I understand, what about your health information are you worried about? Records, financial, ect? I think your gut is already telling you something. Listen to yourself.
You have been through so much. This is the last thing you need. He knows that. Keep reaching out on here. We’re here for you. We’ll get through this!!
This too,
Thank you. You know I never thought of that. The way I took it was he had a new gf ( thanks that wasn’t long, if only I could see f you’d abandon her in the hospital after she trusted you)( I know not very healthy or nice but I’m still working trough the fact he did what he did). I never thought that maybe it’s them fishing for information.
I’ve read Here of past paths using memories over and over. Well he never forgave his parent for having a stressful time in their life. Now he is hoping I’ll fall in the same tracks I guess. It’s all too confusing. It’s just not normal and I’m out of my element. Completely. I’m beyond confused as to why anyone do such a thing and if he hated me that much why was he so nice and loving and promising before my surgery. I think it’s the brainwashing and the fact nothing was simple. Nothing was clear with him. I came home today and just needed my bed. It’s devastating how he knows how and what I’ve been facing and to do this now it’s just hurts. It’s obvious he wants me to hurt he knows I’d do anything for my pet. Even in death. To hold on to the remains it’s beyond my brain capacity. I just think it’s one big sick game to him. I’m just tired. Very very tired and warn out.
Thank you for everyone’s insights. I’m reading and sending my good thoughts and prayers to all of you.
Blue,
Another thought on the “gf” calling. There’s a chance he knew this info would get back to you. Fishing and you knowing about a gf…what ever thought process you take is a win, win for him! I’ve found they often take routes that are a win, win.
I bet you’re tired! You’ve been going through so much at once. I know that beat down feeling, all too well.
Yes, he wants to you to hurt. He will go out of his way to hurt you. That’s what they do. Especially because he’s worried about what is being said about him, to others, your doctor, etc. He will go to many lengths. As you already know. I think once you get your pets remains back you will feel more at peace and he will feel more bored. What’s going on with the lawyer? Do you have one yet? Sorry if you’ve mentioned it. It’s sometimes hard to follow everything on here.
I hope you are getting at least some good rest. You deserve it. You deserve so much more. Judging by your posts you are a compassionate and caring person. Thank you for being here for me with all that you’re going through.
Bluelight,
The pain and devastation you are feeling at your ex sociopath’s betrayal of you and his desire to harm you is natural and normal, and it is very awful. That is why all of what he does is against the rules of every religion, every legitimate morality, and every definition of good character.
The confusion and bewilderment you’re feeling is also very normal. He is a pathological liar and everything he told you may or may not be true, from whether he loves you or not to what he ate for breakfast. Major aspects of your reality have been turned upside down. It will take time to recover; you will recover.
Those survivors who recover sooner and completely, don’t focus too much on trying to understand the spath’s motivations beyond assimilating enough information to prove this is an evil person who is harmful. They have no more contact with the ex spath; and they avoid spending their time focusing on him and what he did other than grieving their losses. Every additional contact with the spath causes more harm. He has been harming the victim all along, and he deceived the victim into thinking that he was not harming her. The most successful survivors put their energies into themselves and their recovery, rebuilding their lives with positive relationships, positive activities, self care; doing things and thinking things that will enhance their well being in the long run.
Blue,
Thanks for sending me good thought about my session today with all you have going on. It was so great to be confirmed after all these years. I feel like I’ve unburdened a lot already. My ex husband abusive? Who knew? Covert asshole.
I’m have an appointment tomorrow at the apple store to have my computer looked at AGAIN. It’s still being all crazy. So over this stalking shit. My counselor gave me so many resources and we came up with a new safety plan. Hopefully it pans out.
As for trauma therapy, the last time I went it was $150 but that was years ago. Not sure were you live so it may be cheaper in my city. I’m now getting free counseling from my local safe house. I’m sure you need to focus on the trauma from cancer and you ex. It may still be worth considering a safe house/women’s facility near you.
Good luck with the store. I wouldn’t advertise it on here though. Please becareful. Or at least go to another one not one he can figure out. But that’s just me playing safe. I hope all goes well. If it doesn’t my vote is sell it and get another one. If it’s that young it’s still worth a lot. That way you’d be free of him.
I called the women’s shelter here. No one picked up and no one has called me back. Imagine if I really needed physical help. It’s sort of disconcerning. I hope they can help me find another resource because that is very hefty.
Blue,
Thanks for this message, too. I haven’t been careful enough on here. What I know for now is that I need this site and I don’t have the energy to decipher what to withhold and what not to. To be honest, I don’t really give a shit what I post right now that he may see. I recognize what this means and that at some point I have to make changes.
Things are looking up in the computer department. I’ll let you know once things are settled. It’s only a little over a year old so no matter what I have options if things don’t pan out for some reason. I’m staying positive about this!
I’m glad you called your women’s shelter. I know sometimes, depending on time of day where I live, they are busy helping people in person. Although my counselor says that’s no excuse. Maybe try calling back again? They know their stuff. How big is the city you live in? That may play a part. I know Remember says her shelter has a wait list for counseling. It’s still worth pursuing. They know their stuff!
In making a decision what to post here, you might consider what is best in the long run. On the one hand you have a need to share and you don’t care whether the ex spath sees it in the short run. But in the long run he can cause severe harm to you; and spaths use whatever information they have against us to harm us. It might be worth stepping back and considering if there are other ways to meet your short term needs that keep you safe. In general, looking at the big picture and making choices that are best in the long term is an important defense against spaths.
Many survivors here on LF have experienced similar abuse as you. Your ex sounds like a classic sociopath in many ways. It is normal and natural that you feel emotional. You have been abused and have been harmed emotionally, psychologically, physically, spiritually, and financially. You have been brutally violated and betrayed. It is heartbreaking. It is the worst pain in the world. You don’t deserve to be mistreated. Spaths are simply what evil is. I don’t think anyone can really totally understand spaths’ motives, because normal people would not choose to do what they do. We can know what motivates them and predict their behavior. I don’t really want to understand them. They are bad people.
It is natural that you have symptoms of PTSD. Since you have other health problems, it may be difficult to discern how much the PTSD is making you feel physically bad and what symptoms are due to the cancer and cancer treatments.
Having to hear your ex on the message tapes will trigger awful feelings. I have had no contact with my ex for several years, but when I did have a phone or email conversation with him, or even when someone else talked to me about him in certain ways, it would literally send me to bed for 2-3 days and I was unable to do much of anything. It is helpful for your recovery to limit your contact to anything and anywhere that has anything to do with him.
It sounds like your doctor is doing what he can to protect you from further harm from your ex. Since he is aware of your ex being disordered, aggressive, and harmful, I think your health records are probably safe. The medical facility is probably on alert to be extra careful about anyone calling about your records.
Consider that your ex always has the potential for ’flipping a switch’ from one lying persona to another. Spaths’ motives are always evil; when they act caring it is an act. Consider that your ex’s bad behavior may not have been because he didn’t like the way the doctor spoke to him. Spaths choose bad behavior and blame it on whatever is handy. Your ex may be bothered by the doctor knowing what his motives are, knowing that he is harmful to you, and doing what he can to unmask your ex to you to protect you and enhance your well being. That makes the spath an adversary to your doctor, because the spath wants to exploit you and your doctor wants what’s best for you.
I hope the lawyer can do something to get your things back, and you don’t have to interact with your ex anymore. It sounds like you are doing a good job of dealing with the aftermath of this horrible fake ’relationship.’ It sounds like you are doing a good job of taking care of yourself. If your ex has a new victim, although it’s sad for her, he may get bored with you and be willing to move on. Be prepared for his smear campaign. My ex’s smear campaign took me by surprise; and I was also unprepared for how much it hurt me when people I didn’t know very well responded negatively to me due to his lies about me. My family and friends were unaffected by the smear campaign; my ex psychopath knew better than to even try with them. Sadly, he had turned his first ex wife’s daughters against him so that they weren’t even speaking to her.
I hope and pray for your quick recovery from your health problems and from the harm the spath did. You will recover sooner and better is you can avoid interacting with him. Try not to worry about him harming you more; just do the best you can to protect yourself in any way you think he may harm you. Take your time in working through your grief. It is helpful to give yourself a break from thinking about what happened to you from time to time. It is necessary to reflect on it and to be somewhat analytical to understand what happened, in order to move on. Victims are so deceived that it takes painful work to untangle the confusion.
Take care.
Annette
“Spaths’ motives are always evil; when they act caring it is an act. ‘
-This is another quote going into my notes
Thanks cause I need this reminder all the time
Spaths do whatever they can to deceive and cause their victims to doubt reality. It was helpful for me to focus on the results of my ex psychopath’s life and what he was doing, rather than his words. What is his career like, his friendships, his family relationships? Does he contribute to the well being of others? Spaths leave a trail of broken relationships and broken people; their work history is often poor. They lie and make excuses for their failures, but it’s unlikely that anyone would have that much ‘bad luck.’ One problem may be a misunderstanding (at work, in prior relationships, etc.), two may be a mistake, when you get to three it’s a pattern.
yes mine had a string of bad luck”wherever he went there was always some sort of story that involved him. i used to call him a drama queen as a joke..
he really didn’t have a lot of anything as you mentioned..no secure job, lots of broken relationships, a divorce, on/off relationship with kids, lies all the time about everything and anything, others are always wrong, he knew it all, had answers to everything”i used to think myself how anyone could have that much distress in their life”oh yeh, plus his horrendous abuse as a child.
you know what i always found strange”he used to have this one specific memory of his daughter when young. he would bring this one memory up each and every time we were together”do they focus on one thing or perhaps thats the only thing he recollect about her”or does he use this to get brownie points? i never understood why
so right about excusing everything he did, and i did it much more than three times.
Thank you Annette.
I’m exhausted so I will reply at another time ( I wouldn’t do it justice my brain is foggy and I’m down).
Just wanted to say thanks and your points are on the nose. 🙂
Blue, No pressure here to reply soon or ever. Just take what you find that helps you, and give when you feel up to it. Of course, it’s always good to hear from you!
I tried replying but I got an error message and got kicked off.
Trying again and just wanted to say thank you annette. I will take time to respond later and give a proper response. ( my head is all foggy and I’m tired and depressed going to go lie down.) if I try now it won’t do it justice. Just thank you. 🙂
Blue,
Mine was like yours nice over the top, then mean, awful. A cycle I guess.
It sounds like you have a great Dr. to even tell you before what he thought your ex was and to go NC. He sounds smart, and caring.
Your health information will be private.
You are right, it is all about him, not you, not your feelings, not your health or having cancer.
Hold tight, remember it. Today I had a jerk off from my past contact me and because I didn’t answer the way he wanted or fast enough, he then verbaly abused me, then still didn’t apologize, and made it about him.
I hate them, all of tnem.
Hang in there love.
We are here for support.
JaneD, I understand what you are saying about wishing yours was mean. I used to think that of mine. We never hit the devalue and discard stage….or so I thought.
First off, I only saw him a couple of hours a day….and then our weekend trips. Anyone can be on their best behavior for that length of time. We also did not share a house, chores, finances, children, etc and all the stresses that go in a normal relationship.
In addition we didn’t fight because he knew if he wanted to keep me as his play toy, he needed to keep me happy….and confused as to reality….so he was helpful,cheerful, made me laugh, etc. And oh yeah, lied about everything.
Jan7 suggested I do some reading on mind control. Wow….there was a ton of stuff there that I recognized. Anchoring was a big one. He was very big on touching….not always sexual in nature….but just physical touch to reinforce thought of him….to drive the need/addiction.
Long story short. He may have been all charming and nice on the surface…..but he was twisting that knife in my back all the same. It was a sneaky, covert form of abuse.
Today, I’m having a hard time with the Why? Again. I did nothing but love this guy. I wasn’t mean, controlling, jealous, demanding, etc. Why would he think it was ok to lie to me the way he did?
I know the answer. Still hard to comprehend.
amille
i wish i knew “why” too.
i think of it daily and sometimes think its all not happening and i will hear from him”he can’t contact me though, so that won’t happen..
we were so nice and gave everything to we had to give and they pretended to reciprocate so”why?? how? i have to come to terms that there is no answer, they are just mentally disturbed and we won’t get closure, ever. we just have to accept this, as i am learning. one good thing i have found is when he recontacted me, i saw what he is capable of outside of being with me..i saw someone newly married, begging me to see him again over and over only to discard me the very next day and tell me he loves his wife and can’t hurt her”if he does this to her”he did that to me..
i see what you mean how you didn’t hit the discard and devalue stage”it was you who confronted him so he didn’t discard you”although the obit could be considered your discard, in a way.
and perhaps you’re right about the arguing and fighting with them, we didn’t live with them so we didn’t see that side of them”a couple hours at a time is not long enough to see their true beings, its not hard to “behave” for just a short time..although their wheels were constantly spinning in their brains..
Read John Howells ” A love letter from a narcissist”.
Eye opening for me.
Stronginthecity
Thanks Strong….very much needed tonight…makes sense…as much sense as one can make of all this.
JaneD, the more I read and learn from this group, the more I realize the entire “relationship” was one giant devalue.
I agree the obit was the discard.
I just read a very interesting article on the subtle differences between a sociopath and covert narcissist. I’m having issues copying the link. You should be able to find by googling Dianna Ianannarone. It was posted on her site on Jan 25, 2014, entitled, “A very detailed look at the distinguishing differences between a sociopath and narcissist.”
I thought of you while reading it because she details how/why one is less likely to be on the receiving end of overt abuse with a narcissist. Something you and I have been wrestling with.
I like the article because she gives examples of what you are likely to hear from a sociopath vs. narcissist in a given situation along with a metaphor of how they manipulate our thinking.
In the end she concludes it doesn’t matter how we label our abusers….I agree…..abuse is abuse. However, the article did open my eyes a bit on some of the experiences I had with him.
Amille2
Thank you for the info! I will look into the site and read it! I just read and read because the more I read it gets drummed deeper into my head and I profit from it! So thank you..I’ll let you know 🙂
And you’re so right when you say being on here just teaches us something new all the time…things we doubt, things we think don’t have to do with “our” spaths, things that we think don’t pertain to them…so much valued info that reminds me each and every day what we dealt with and confirms all those dangerous red flags that I cast aside
JD, all of you guys,
I agree JD, LF is my sole support right now-and reading until I see the new therapist on Monday.
Thank you all for taking the time out each day to share your experiences and support us!
You are all a blessing.
Thank you Donna
amille2
thanks, i just read the above article and it was really really good..
i recognized so many things in both the s and n traits”but by reading that, i think he is more an narc”is that what you thought about your ex as well?
there are many articles to read there, thank you 🙂
Hi JaneD, yes am leaning towards the covert Narc.
I can picture him claiming that he was the perfect boyfriend to me. How could I go NC? He did everything right and I didn’t appreciate him.
I, too had tons of emails to delete. And you know what? I also told him that I thought he had such a way with words,,,,very poetic. Sigh.
Interesting on his same memory with his daughter. I wonder what that was all about?
Mine spoke highly of his daughter. His relationship with his son was tumultuous. He once even said his son moved out to get away from him.
I look back on that conversation and see covert narcissist at work…how it was a true statement yet he was the victim.. At the time, I tried to reassure him that he must be mistaken….
Amille,
I just read the article you recommended. I found her perspective helped me. I’m just now figuring out that my ex husband was abusive. This healing process from my spaths has definitely stirred my pot!
My ex husband is definitely a narc. He was for the most part kind to me until I started questioning him and wanting to live more for me. Then, BAM. Relationship done. What she described hit home. Many things she said fits him.
As for my spaths #1 and #2. Definitely sociopaths/psychopaths!
Thank you for posting this!
I am glad it helped and that I can maybe start to give back now.
I liked the way she was able to give examples of what we might hear;and the metaphor of being in the water was quite enlightening.
My heart goes out to you. You have been through too much….
I hope you will soon find some peace in your life.
Thanks, Amille. You’ve been through too much! We all have on here. I’m so upset right now I want to stop around my house on behalf of all of us and yell, “IT’s NOT FAIR!”
There must be good that comes out of this for us, right? I usually believe that. I’m feeling defeated right now.
can you please tell me which article you just read and where i can find it?
i was being abused and did not know it. my friends think in an idiot
Kitty,
It’s called a A Very Detailed Look at the Distinguishing Differences Between a Sociopath and a Narcissist; from My Perspective, by Diana Iannarone. The article breaks things down from a subtle perspective based on her experiences. It definitely helped me! Although I’m trying to get away from the whole label thing. It’s hard for me though. I just know my ex’s were discorded.
Bottom line, we were treated very poorly! More than anyone should have to go through.
Here’s the link:
http://dianaiannarone.com/2014/01/25/a-very-detailed-look-at-the-distinguishing-differences-between-a-sociopath-and-a-narcissist-from-my-perspective/
Kitty,
Do your friends really think that, or do you feel like they think you’re an idiot for being abused?
Jane doe
I know what you are saying. Your ex was not mean and abudive the same way as my ex was. But when it comes down to it he was still a manipulator and a liar, just in a different way. Even though my ex was so mean I was still addicted to him. Well also he was my husband for many years and believe I tried everything to make this marriage work. But if there is no truth , there will be no trust. No trust there cannot be love. Love and trust go hand in hand. You cannot have trust if there is no truth.
My marriage was doomed as soon as those 3rd people came into his life. I might have not been an obstacle when I was younger. But being in my mid 40’s he constantly compared me to 20 year olds. That is not what marriage should be. He was also mid 40’s but acted like he was in high school. His own son acted better than him. It was a daily struggle. I was walking on egg shells the minute I got up, even throughout the night. Was he watching porn on the Internet , was he answering his profiles on cheating websites ? He had absolutely no respect for me or his son. The things he said threw me of. It was outrageous his comments.
I never had peace in this marriage. Exhausting and emotional draining. It was an illusion. A total lie on his part.
Glad this is behind me. Would it be different if he was nice to me ? No, he would still be a cheater and a liar.
As long as your ex had the potential to do what he did, the marriage was already doomed. The only reason the 3rd people came into his life was because he invited them. It’s possible that your age (wish I was still in my mid 40’s!) was a random subject of his abuse – if you were 20 he would have picked something else to abuse you about.
I can’t post again.
Lol
It is good to hear you feeling so much better! We have a long road out of the pit, but you are on your way!
JaneD,
I read and read, i’ve been reading since January, it didn’t really click until March.
Lovefraud Family:
I feel sick. I am in my office. Not sure what to do about it, except self soothe as my therapist says…
Ummmmmm……. I was looking for a password to a medical bill account of mine so that I could pay it on my lunch break. so I typed in my email search…. the word… Quest.
Now…. for whatever darn reason…. I do not get it…
a “hangout” which is messaging through Gmail came up between my exspath and myself!
I just glanced over it. and now I am sickened and angered. THE EVIL! Stronginthecity…… ARE YOU WITH ME?
I am going to copy and paste…. hope you all do not mind, but I need release right now.
Here I am typing him from my desk at a nursing home…. and he I guess from firehouse.
I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT….
April 16th…. was the day that I got the pocket call of him emotionally and sexually with another woman… right after he texted…. I LOVE YOU BABY. AT Doctor’s appt.
this conversation was on April 6th. HE WAS ALREADY CHEATING ON ME AND LOOK WHAT HE WRITES ME!!!!
He copies and pastes me an article …. and at the end my dear lv fam….. Please hold my hand during this….
HE WRITES THAT THE ARTICLE SOUNDS LIKE HIM…. and that I should thank my lucky stars.
I was so in his brainwashing.. that I BELIEVED HIM.
He would tell me how difficult I was… although I payed his way through life… was kind, nurturing, loving.. a free ride, sexual…. everything.
I cant stand there is such evil. I really cant. He would tell me… and hints in this article… that he was a very PATIENT man to put up with me (I WAS A SAINT TO THIS MAN. his coworkers, friends, fam and exwife… all said that I literally saved his life!)
please read. what do I do with this pain and injustice? he was already with another woman when writing these things to me.
Maybe he meant to send the article to her instead.
someone send love please.
it will say his name and then what he wrote…
and then you will see my response.
omg.
jerry spivey
I LOVE YOU
💖💖💗💗
Megan Basile
your guy should at least refill once without seeing you b/c it is well after they have been used up. Meaning… it is not like you ran out of your meds the first week.
I LOVE YOU MORE.
jerry spivey
hehe.. are you having a good day??
OHHH BABY
you nned to call me right now..
561 243 7482
Megan Basile
ok. one sex
I mean sec. 🙂
jerry spivey
muhahahaha
jerry spivey
Finding a good man, x-ray vision not required.
I married Superman.
No, he doesn’t own a cape—but he does have super powers.
He makes me feel like the most amazing woman alive. He treats me with the care and respect I deserve; he loves our little girl in a way that melts my heart—and every single day I thank God that I married this man.
So what should you look for in a guy? These 10 things:
1. Humor. Life has ups and downs, and dramas and supporting characters that we sometimes wish would vanish. So your guy should make you laugh.
2. Intelligence. My man has a Master’s degree in Geophysics and another Master’s in Medical Physics; with work experience in both fields. Basically, I’m married to a genius. Does your guy have to have an I.Q. better than Einstein’s? No, but you definitely need to be able to relate to him on a mental level—and he should bring out your own curiosity and intellect too.
3. Physical fitness. Your guy doesn’t have to leap tall buildings in a single bound—but if he takes care of himself physically, it’s a sign of self-respect.
4. Patience. Being in a relationship with me probably isn’t easy. I’m neurotic and hyperactive—and impatient. So I’m eternally grateful that I married a guy with the patience of a superhero. Trust me, if he has patience with you and your quirky qualities, it makes life that much easier.
5. Loving feeling. My husband loves me; truly loves who I am inside and out. Pick someone who really likes being with you.
6. Soulful. My guy is so spiritual. He always has been. Being with someone with a spiritual nature is enriching to your life—and to the relationship you share.
7. Commitment Lover.
7. Commitment Lover. Back in high school, I had a theory that my girlfriends should date guys who liked worn out jeans (I’ve dated my husband since I was 14). My thinking was that if he had trouble getting rid of those perfectly worn pants, then he was also more likely to enjoy long-term relationships. Now I’m not too sure of the accuracy of this adolescent idea, but your ideal partner should show a level of commitment in other areas of his life besides you.
8. Good taste. My favorite clothes and jewelry are hand-picked by my husband. I don’t think that this has to be a requirement of a successful relationship—but it sure doesn’t hurt either.
9. Compliments. Your perfect mate should spend more time highlighting what’s great about you than harping on your lesser traits; not because he’s blind to your reality, but because he loves you for who you are and knows that we live up to the standards that are set for us. In short, we grow to be our best selves in a nurturing, positive environment.
10. He doesn’t take your crap. Okay, so I do mean the above statement in number nine. However, that doesn’t mean your guy should turn his head when you treat him poorly, try to control him, or act in a way that’s beneath you. He should encourage—and if necessary demand—that you rise and shine to the occasion; that you be your best self.
Life is challenging, and a great partner should make your life easier not harder.
sounds alot like me Meg . :).. Count your lucky stars my love
Megan Basile
bbbbb…. I am loving this.
OH MY GOd.
esp. number 10. 🙂
jerry spivey
RIGHT
hahah
Megan Basile
I love them all.
jerry spivey
LOVE IT
Megan Basile
I LOVE T.
jerry spivey
3 is a little off2:50 PM
Kitty,
I don’t understand fully what’s going on, but whatever you do don’t respond with anything. If he is initiating some kind of contact he is in violation of the RO. Maybe this is something from the past that’s just showing up on Google hangouts? If there is an account that he hasn’t been blocked yet, you can take the time to block it some time later.
You don’t have to do anything right away. If you can, try and get through your working day, and then you can figure out what’s going on. Take the time to consider what to do. Try not to react; if you can stay centered and give yourself time to recover from the shock of this intrusive contact into your life that is triggering all kinds of awful emotions and panic.
I am sorry for the misunderstanding Annette, but that hangouts is from April 6 before I caught him cheating. I found it today looking for something else in my email. I’m sorry for the confusion
I was reading too fast and feeling your stress coming through so I was not thinking too clearly. When I went back more carefully you were clear enough.
You might also consider not posting real names here, because the blog is open for anyone to read. Spaths can read what we are sharing here just as easily as you and I can.
thanks. i think im numb from evil intoxication. i just dint care anymore. people like this should be behind bars but instead he represents service and rescue and safety
Yes they should be at the very least behind bars. That’s what defines evil, wrong, immorality. Sadly, there is evil in this world, and there is very little justice at this time.
When you get a chance, maybe you can explain some more how this came up and which parts of the copied text is which.
Take care of yourself. Don’t respond to him.
I reread your post, and I think I understand better. This was a google hangout that you and the ex spath did before you discovered he is an evil cheating sociopath; and since it came up you reread it and got triggered when you reread it now knowing that he was deceiving you and lying during the conversation. Yes that is sickening, and pure evil. This behavior is why you had to break up with him, have no more contact, and get an RO. You know clearly now that you did the right thing. He was playing games with you, like a cat and mouse; and you were doing your best to do the impossible to make a relationship with him work, that he had no intention ever of being real and serious about. He is your worst enemy, that is for sure. A few generations ago your brothers would go find him and shoot him for treating you like he did.
Sorry I didn’t get what was going on at first. The way you feel now is why you are better off not having any contact at all with him.
You will feel better and you will eventually be able to see things and remember things without getting triggered so badly. I do what I can to avoid my ex spath, and avoid thinking about him as much as possible, because several years out and I still am harmed by his evil if I let it contact me. As long as spaths remain evil (forever) they will harm us if we allow ourselves any contact. In the same way, when I have thoughts of my first loving late husband, the memories still bring me joy, warmth and love; and he’s been gone for 20 years, but it brings a smile to my face when I think of something about him, or see a photo or another memento.
annette
yes thats what i think it is as well”some sort of conversation/s between the two of them..
i as well had loads of man conversations and Skype conversations and emails that i saved”i had to delete them, it would have taken me weeks to reread them all but i would have most probably done it on my spare time and reminisced”bad thing to do”
kitty, you need to delete anything that reminds him of you, all these conversations i discovered, puts us a step back and we think “he isn’t a bad person because he speaks so nicely”
yeh right, i used to say to him at the beginning how mine spoke like a poet”.i wish i had never said that because the love bombing was enough to make you cringe..
delete it all, it will help you immensely when there is nothing to look back on”with time you will get to this point.
Jane Doe…
thank you for your reply.
I was not looking thru things or emails of his…
it came up while I was dong something totally different.
I am not ready to delete the PROOF of my true and evil victimization yet…
I understand and agree with your saying delete them.
but hey. maybe some poor woman will call me one day.. I can show her… she can see…. that he was lying to all of us.
uggghhhhhh….
My emails and things are PROOF… A VIDEO TAPE of my rapist emotionally raping me. I guess I am keeping them for validation if ever the time comes.
Kitty
Yes I agree to keeping all proof just in case you may need it to prove somethjng you need to. I wasn’t sure if your attached message you had sent was something you’d been keeping to look back on. I was trying to refer to that and to not make yourself more upset and look back on the “sweetness” the men pretend to have, in their messages from the relationship.
🙂
Annette…
I cant give you a big enough hug for that post.
thank you soooooo much.
so much.
Megan
And a big hug right back from me to you!