UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Taralev
Sorry to hear he put more blame on you. But that is expected. It makes him feel better and justifies his actions. My ex did the same. He just loved it when he blamed me. Isn’t it getting old with time ?
You sound stronger in your posts. You should still cut of all contact. I hope your day gets better. 🙂
Kaya- yes I am trying everyday. It is getting old. He has hurt me enough. He said yesterday that the months he said he loved me were all out of his confusion..and that he is moving on from me and would never be with “someone like me” ever. I don’t know what is so bad with me. I did not cheat..lie..i was good to him. That really hurt him saying that to me.
There is nothing so bad with you. You just simply wont put up with his bullshyt anymore. That is an evil he cant stand.
Remember this when he boomerangs back. I guarantee he will. The ones who insist over and over he would never be with “you” always come crawling out of their slime back. Theyre broke, sick and homeless usually.
AND the last gf has dumped them or they’ve tired of her.
They are attracted by the light you shine, in fact. U are the good thing, the human thing. And they will never be either.
Just losers, users and abusers.
It’s in his GENES, literally.
aint- yes it really is in his Genes. He never knew his father- his father left him before he can remember, he has never seen a photo. He is Cuban and white mixed. His father was Cuban…and his father cheated on his mom and took off. I really think this disorder developed as a child..and I tell him all the time he is like his father.
He was lucky enough to be adopdted by a great church going man -when his mom remarried.He has 3 siblings..and a good family. He just really is evil. He trys to say I made him that way…but I was not evil. I reacted to the crazy lies- im not proud of driving by his moms-calling his mom-acting “crazy” but his lies drove me to that level!!
ahhhh he’s latino!!
my babydaddy is part latino too
i rly think that culture is messed UP
its not just the spath i know or the spath u do. i often encounter it in others’ stories. or watch it play out. i used to live in a neighborhood that was heavily latino. the men were all spaths imo. the women were miserable. alot of white-latino marriages and the women were abjectly miserable. so i’ve seen it firsthand too besides my experience.
i know ur special pain my dear ~hugs~
Mine was hispanic too. I hate to generalize, but I agree with aint.
ya know hanalei i am not racist either, truly im not. im just stating an AH HA ive had. maybe save someone else. I’d be very careful with latinos. But then again i’d be careful with middle eastern men. the culture is just so sick. any cultures that are anti-women and incubate and reward egotistical men are dangerous for women.
i truly never think to myself when im reading stuff on here, or where ever, that oh i bet that guys latino (or any other nationality). but it’s always a YUPPERS when i learn it.
isnt that sad 🙁
Interesting that several have had the same experience. My ex P was and many other spaths are WASP’s. I am blessed to know Latino’s who are good men, family men, providers and protectors. Maybe a trend but not an absolute.
Annette, I have known a lot of hispanic men that are wonderful too – my most successful relationship was with one and I only left it because I aspired to be married and have children and he had already been there done that and wasn’t going to budge. I am white, and in fact, most of my relationships have been with hispanic men just because of the area of the country I live in.
I think culture plays a role in successful relationships, but I don’t think any particular culture has the edge on psychopaths.
Aint,
Sadly, the culture in the US is getting more and more spath friendly. Getting rid of archaic wrong stereotypes is a positive change, but a lot of positive values are getting thrown out. Popular culture condones a lot of spath like behavior, and there is so little in entertainment media that supports basic good character like honesty, commitment and stability.
On the other hand, spaths adapt to any situation and just go underground more when culture doesn’t approve of their behaviors.
psychopathy is a HUMAN condition.
not exclusive to one skin color or nationality, for sure.
no matter what flavor of Cluster B you encounter.
Taralev
Yes, it hurts what they say. But what they throw at you is so shallow, meaningless and manipulative. My ex told me he did not love me anymore. Everything he told was lies. It stung after 20 years of marriage. But lying includes the lie “I love you”. It took me a long time to accept and realize that it was all lies. The entire marriage. The planning for the future. Everything. It was worth than the cheating. Taralev, that’s why I stopped looking at his crap. Like when he wished me a happy birthday after being in court for the restraining order, a happy Mother’s Day after he forced the sale of the house and took all cars. It’s all meaningless crap to get a reaction out of me He send this to my son as I changed all my email and phone no’s. Next week, my divorce will he t the final judgement It will be another good day for me. I framed the petition for divorce and put it up. Looking at it reminds me how far I got, how strong I am and how I am in control. Control over my life, emotions and my heart. He is nothing to me and my son now. A loser, a coward and a pervert. Committing adultery destroys people’s souls. I am not sure if he has one but I know that I would not want to live with the guilt and knowledge of destroying a family for the rest of my life.
You will be ok. I promise that to you, my friend.
The other day I blocked him from text ( I have blocked and unblocked) and he emailed me and said I was a coward for blocking him. And that he would rather die alone then ever be with me again.
This new girl has no idea. Sure- he thinks its perfect because it is new. She has not had to deal with the years of bizarre lies I dealt with.
That is a great idea you framed the petition for divorce. So when he talks to you and says happy mothers day you just don’t respond? I would have to cuss him out.
no u dont have to cuss him out. ever.
dont respond.
its worse for him.
and its SOOOO BETTER FOR YOU.
and YOU are the one here who’s important.
he’s NOTHING.
When you’re ready to block him from everything you’ll get your power back. You are probably still processing it all. It’s a great loss and you were betrayed badly. It’s natural to feel like cussing him out; and if he were normal, being cussed out might ‘wake him up’ and inspire him to change. But we know that it doesn’t work like that with spaths because they don’t care about our pain and anger. My ex P did whatever he could to make me feel like cussing him out, and when I finally realized that he was pushing my buttons for a game (I called it his ‘torture sports’) it gave me the motive to ignore him and to stop responding. I never could resist the temptation to respond to his button pushing, so I had to go no contact.
When you’re ready to block him from everything and to stop responding, I think you’ll find that even though it’s very very hard to resist the temptation to get sucked in, that you will start to feel better on some level, to get your power back. It was after I got out of the quagmire of BS interactions with the spath that I realized how much of myself and my life he had taken away from me.
Kaya, after I was discarded in the new house, mine waited almost 6 months to send me an email that said this: I can no longer continue to support two homes (as if he was). It is time to list that piece of s##t house for sale (the home that we had peed our pants with joy and excitement when we found that he never even bothered to move into). I suggest you list it at $xxx (almost $200k more than we paid for it). Out of caring for your feelings, I waited until after Thanksgiving, Christmas and your birthday to contact you about this so that I would not ruin those times for you.
Following that email, it took over a YEAR before he finally signed the listing agreement to put the house on the market. It went back and forth multiple times, with him refusing to sign for one small thing or another. He finally flatly refused to sign, saying that he would not sign with the customary 6% commission, it had to be reduced to 5%. My attorney’s bill averaged over $1,000 a month during this time to deal with this bs conversation. When he finally refused, she suggested that we just stop responding and see what happened. The signed agreement showed up a few weeks later. During this time there were numerous unforeseen maintenance issues with the house that he was advised of and responded that he would participate in paying for (after he demanded to see multiple quotes for repairs, reviewed and picked them apart) and he never paid anything.
The lying includes everything, up to and including the “I love you”.
So happy for you that your divorce will be final next week. What an accomplishment.
What BS especially the part about caring for your feelings. If he cared about your feelings, it would reflect in everything he did. If his timing was because he cared about your feelings, he would not mention it. He picks something random he did and frames it as caring. Love is an action, and they don’t do it.
Interesting that when you stopped interacting that he signed the listing agreement. It’s very very helpful to us to remember that they are not motivated the same way normal folks are. He didn’t care a bit about the issues he was arguing about – he just wanted to argue. Take that fun and games away from him, and he quit playing. It’s awful and disgusting and sickening to think about it, but keeping in mind what the spaths are motivated by (keeping us engaged in meaningless pointless interactions, getting off on frustrating and harming others, destroying life, light, good, happiness, kindness, love – they ultimately want us to be just as vile as them), can help us in a powerful way to manage them so that we get as good an outcome from having to deal with them in the aftermath.
Annette, yes! He always said things like that because he wanted to make a show of him dumping me was MY fault and he was a great, caring guy who had been duped by me.
My attorney was smart (and honest) – she said, we’re getting nowhere with him because he wants to cost you money and draw this out as long as he can, so let’s just stop responding and see what happens, it can’t take any longer than it already is, but you won’t be paying for my time.
He didn’t have much money in the house, but his ability to take on more debt was blocked since he had that mortgage plus the one on his own house. When I found out he was getting married, it made sense, he wanted that debt off the books.
Him finding her and deciding she was the one he wanted to rush into marriage was a godsend for my life. They have been married over a year already and have no idea if it’s still even intact, but I feel terrible for her, as her day will come if it hasn’t already.
Yeah, rushing into marriage is a hallmark red flag of the spath. I can’t imagine that it would be any different for her. If he suddenly changed into someone who did relationships and marriage, he would first try to repair the damage done with you and make that work.
See, I used to cuss him out. Before the no contact. But that is exactly what he wants me to do. No I don’t talk to him in person at all. In court the lawyers talked, my lawyers responded for me. His lawyers said “oh you instructed your client not to say anything “. Absolutely. I will not engage in any conversation with the devil.
He sends emails and messages to my son and writes “for your mother “. Excuse me, a year ago I was the mentally ill “mother”. He lost that privilege with trying to portray me as crazy, trying to put me in jail. I am the mother of his only child and he tried to destroy or “kill” me.
Blocking him is the smartest thing you can do. Try to not unblock him. Why do you want to read his crap ? Does he write something meaningful , apologetic or loving? The answer is probably no. So don’t read it. That’s what satan does , feed on your weaknesses and excagarate your mistakes.
I hope I get to the point you are. He loves that I begged him to come home. He cheated on me…and I know now it probably was not the first time. It kills me..this was the man who raised my son..went with him in decemember to get his drivers license..and then discarded us.
You will get there, and based on what you are writing here I think you will get there a lot quicker than I did.
My ex P also played father figure to my son and dropped him like a hot potato. It hurt him, crushed him really, and he will have the scars forever. That grieves me more than anything about my spath experience.
And Taralev
His girlfriend will meet the same fate as you. The new exciting feeling will become routine, will get old and then he will be on the search for new “supply”. He will never be happy and satisfied. He will always want more and more. Because he cannot be happy. They exist and that’s all. In the end he will be at the bottomless pit, wishing he would have not sinned. And that’s their ultimate punishment. I now leave it up to God, my ex can live in his lies and betrayals. I am not a part of the darkness anymore.
I keep trying to tell myself that. I told him too. I told him when we met 6 years ago we were new and exciting..but we also raised together a 9 month old, 5 year old and 12 year old …we raised 3 boys..had 2 major deaths in the family..he always said to me “we will outlast all your friends relationsips because we have been thru everything ” it makes me sick now. He tells her he loves her, sleeps next to her. And I am alone. All I wanted was to have friends and a family. I have really good friends..but I loved to cook for them and make dinner…I decorated every holiday just for the kids. I feel everything is gone
Everything IS gone.
all the lies, all the confusion you always floundered around in, all the sex he had with others while WITH YOU, all the laziness he put out.
its all gone hon.
and now ur left with the chance to make a real life.
perhaps with a *GOOD* man someday. perhaps not. but it’ll be a life that makes you successful and make a difference to someone or many someones 🙂
thank GOD everything is gone.
now reality can start again and LIFE.
The family, the children, the times you shared, all these things meant something to you because you are normal. He doesn’t care, he doesn’t bond, he doesn’t love. He didn’t leave because there is anything wrong with you; he left because there is something wrong with him. It is normal to want friends and family. All the good things about you, the things you contributed to the relationship, your memories and bonds with the children – you take these things with you, you have them, you own them, and they are good things because you are good and you created them. He never benefited, he has nothing but the potential to hurt and betray others. He has nothing to offer, he got nothing from you, because that is who he is.
All the good things you take with you, you have these things to give to someone deserving who chooses to give to you and will appreciate what you have to offer.
He is essentially dead, he has never really been fully alive as normal people understand it.
The horror we feel when the betrayal and exploitation is revealed is like the movie theme where the handsome loving guy turns into a demon and turns on the beautiful woman who trusted him. One of the few ‘feelings’ the spaths feel is glee at harming others. I think that is why so many of them (all?) are sexual perverts and pedophiles. What could do worse harm to children than being raped?
Taralev
How sad, isn’t it? Not only do they hurt wives, girlfriends and partners. They inflict pain on children, innocent parts of their families. My ex lied to his only son. One thing I will never forget was the comment “your mother is mentally ill, it would be better if she was locked away”. After my 17 year old son found the nasty pictures of him and the co worker. And this why my son cut off all contact. Because the father is a liar and an abuser.
John 8:44
…. And does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and The father of all lies”
Very appropriate bible reference, whatever one’s beliefs are. Here is the whole verse: “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
At first I could not understand that my ex P dropped my son when he dropped me. But it made sense since the P doesn’t care any more about my son than he does me, he didn’t bond with my son nor me, he just faked it. The P even shouted at me when I queried him, “He (son) came with you, he goes with you!!!!!”
The children are just pawns in the spaths’ games, just like anyone/anything else. There’s no relationship nor bond. They don’t miss anyone.
Taralev
I felt the same way. I thought I lost everything, all is gone. In reality it’s a blessing. You have everything. You have yourself back. Thinking back now , I had to be and act a special way for him. Sometimes he would say “don’t talk to this person , they are idiots, don’t do this, this is not to my standard , and on and on. Rarely did I get a compliment. When I told him his answer wAs “if you want a compliment, go see a psychatrist “. How rude is that. At the same time he wanted to be praised how good he is in bed, how handsome he is, how well endowed he is, how sexy he is. It makes me sick to my stomach now. And that feeling is proof enough that I am over him.
But it takes time, months, maybe years. Him being so vindictive in court helped me getting over him fast. So thank you for that. What he did not realize is that all the evil things he did to me after he left , destroyed any little love that my son had left for him. Because my son said “how dare does he hurt my mother and inflict pain on her so deliberately “. My son will always be protective of me. The ex did not realize that. He should have because his own father cheated on his mom and left her with 5 children . Oh yes, for a younger co worker also.
Yes- mine was that way too. He actually was not good in bed, as I read most of them are. He was totally obsessed with his image though- I had to always tell him how attractive he was (he really is not)..I did not love him for looks..but he was always looking for praise. In the months he left …he has said to me that he lost so much weight now, since hes been gone from me. I never made him gain weight. I tried to coo healthy, chicken fish and salad..he wanted junk.
He now throws in my face how good he looks hes not with me. and how he cheated with someone who “doesn’t use threats as their method of communication”
I did not threat him..unless he was lying. So- it was a lot I guess. I would tell him I was not going to put up with the lies and yes- I would threat to go to his family. Like I said im not proud of myself but I was at my wits end. Your son sounds soooo much like my son. My son is 18 and he told me “mom you don’t need a loser like him, all you need is me and you”. I am so very grateful to have him.
My ex P was not good in bed – boring, inadequate, and uninterested in a relationship with an adult woman in general. It was lonely, frustrating, and pretty pathetic. I tried to be encouraging, but he didn’t really get what sex was about any more than he gets what love, relationships, family, truth, commitment, achievement, and life in general is about. He could have ‘gotten it’ but he didn’t make the choices that lead to being a grown up good man. Doing porn and child porn, cross dressing, lying, etc. etc. just don’t lead to internalizing a grown up man’s motivation to be a provider, protector, and to use his strength to serve others.
My ex was fabulous in bed long enough to get me completely hooked, then he became mean, and finally, indifferent.
He had me “trained” that he needed it twice a day, morning and night. He really had me hopping, because if I “missed” a time, he was impossible to live with. In the last years, he played this game where if he didn’t get it at night, he didn’t want it in the morning so there was all this whining and angst, and when I tried to (ugh) “take care of it”, he refused. So my day would be ruined. MAYBE he would give me a break by letting it go by evening, maybe not. I had no idea he was getting plenty in other places while I was at work.
From today’s perspective, he was sick, but also had the mentality of a 12 year old. It was all a game to keep me off track, a nervous wreck, and a little hysterical. Soooo..then he could tell me I had mental problems and needed medication.
Yah. Can’t see the forest when you’re buried in trees.
I got complimented constantly…but it was all fake. He was always telling me that other women were checking me out and over time it escalated to him hinting that women were so attracted to me and wanted to have sex with me. This included women at my job, my hair cutter, random women when we were out in public. He started asking me if women every asked me to show them my breasts in the bathroom at work! Clueless as ever, I told him that kind of thing doesn’t happen in real life and assumed he was just fantasizing over some porn he had seen and thought it was harmless. It escalated over time and afterwards, I figured out that he had been grooming me to believe all this crap and bring another woman into the relationship. He was very specific that me not doing this “for him” was one of his reasons for discarding me. Yep, my fault.
Once, he told me that he had a plan for me and he knew exactly where he was taking me and I should not be concerned, because it was all good. Yep. Good for HIM.
We can’t see the red flags or listen to our gut when we are seduced by that cocktail of chemicals that they create in our brain to keep us hooked.
that grooming is so subtle and so SICK
and works oh, so WELL 🙁
And they ratchet it up slowly like the frog in the water gradually heated to boiling so it doesn’t jump out.
Crazy making. Nothing wrong with you being clueless – until one experiences this evil insanity, who’d have known?
What a great world it would be if no one has to experience this ever.
This late spring a man was trying to groom me. I saw thru it quick. Another one tried, I cut him off way before the first. A third tried, i kid you not. All 3 scammers. I must have a cosmic sign on my forehead–this one’s a dork lol
I am un-groomable I think :0
~happydance~
OOORRRRR
my natural extreme cynicism has returned. enough men have played with my heart. it’s not for rent anymore 😉
Good for you. On the spiritual level, it may be a test, and now that you’ve passed and thus established your strength, good things can come your way!
You resisted the devil, now we will flee from you! (James 4:7)
Kaya,
Many of your posts are so similar to my experience. I figured out after a few months of marriage that about the only thing I could talk to the P about was how great he is, yet how good he is in bed, how handsome, etc. Some of that is natural between spouses – one should think one’s spouse is wonderfulin every way, but it was out of balance.
I got more and more clarity after being out as to how abusive, rude and restricting my life, my ex P was. I didn’t see it when I was in it.
Hanalei
Thank you. Yes , looking back I honestly don’t know where I got the strength from to accomplish this. How sad about your house. And it’s not just a house, it was our home. A place we could call our own. My ex did the same. One time my lawyer received a letter “my client is tired if paying all your clients bills”. Yeah right, he paid nothing. He did not pay the mortgage , not his son college tuition, nothing. He went on cruises and partied. Just the same. Like you I was very sad about the house but like I said before. What good would it be if I was still living in the dream home with him
By my side ?” It would be hell. So I chose to be happy with what I have. He is not a part of it, and that’s what counts.
Oh yes, my legal bills were like 1000$ or more a month just because he did not disclose everything, because he was evil. At the end he lost everything. Oh , he got the cars. Ha. I just bought another car, so who cares ?
How are you doing Hanalei ? Did u take this job in the other state ?
Kaya, I put myself through several days of agony deciding and finally accepted the job offer, contingent on salary approval. After I accepted, they told me they expected me to come out for two weeks at my own expense to be trained prior to moving. I said that would be a hardship for me for a variety of reasons and they weren’t negotiable. I spent a few agonizing hours worrying about how I could pull that off (leaving my pets behind with strangers, did I even have the energy to make it happen) and called back and told them that was a deal breaker and that I would have to decline the offer. I instantly felt better. I was putting way too much pressure on myself to have something, anything happen to give me direction and it was just wrong.
I’m taking the next couple of months to decide where I am going to live and go from there.
Thanks for asking!
HanaleiMoon and Aint- mine was Cuban / white..he really did not look Hispanic at all. But I really think his father deserting him and being a cheater has a lot to do with his lies and terrible way of living. He has 2 kids with 2 women..his exwife told me before she divorced him ..he choked her to the point she almost passed out. At the time..she kept thinking she was married to scott Peterson. She put a restraining order on him for 2 years.
I think that is why he is so caring to one son and not the other. He did not like being rejected by a woman..and she threw him out.
This is one instance where I WOULD warn the new victim. You chose not to believe her but she gave you the truth.
My friend’s husband tried to knife her in the back and choke her.
She told the next vic before she was a VIC with him as the PERP.
it did no good, but her conscience is clear. it was just a brief unemotional warning but she did what she could.
~shudder~
Are you saying your ex spath choked his first ex? Or are you talking about his father? Just want to be sure I understand.
That potential for violence is dangerous and the most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves a relationship. He has left you now, but he’s clearly engaging you and may plan to come back when he feels like it. He’s certainly trying to keep you as an option, which is very common spath behavior. You might read about grey rock technique, and google how to safely leave a Psychopath. There is a lot of good information out there.
I did not see the danger I was in when I was where you are. I intellectually knew my ex P might harm me so that I told my friends very early in the ‘marriage’ if anything ever happened to me to look closely at him, but I did not keep myself safe because I still emotionally felt ‘close’ to him and ‘trusted’ him. Those bonds are difficult to break.
Consider being very careful in what you say to him. Be on alert. Consider changing your locks if you haven’t already, and vary your routine. It’s difficult to stop being totally honest and forthright to the spath when you’ve been in a relationship that’s supposed to be love based and trust based, but consider keeping your cards to yourself and measuring everything you say to him in light of your safety. It might not be in your best interest to cuss him out or even let him know you’re getting over him. Consider just phasing out communication with him and letting him get bored with you and just slither away on his own.
With respect to warning the other woman, remember that his potential to harm you is not any less than his potential to harm her. If she tells him that you’ve just told her he’s potentially dangerous and has a history of choking women till they almost lose consciousness, he could get angry enough to harm you. One way to deal with this is to send his new woman an email or leave her a message letting her know that if she ever has any questions about him or wants to talk to you about anything, that you are willing to talk with her and answer her questions. She will remember this when the relationship starts going bad. I would have liked to talk to my ex P’s first ex wife, but never did because I did not want to upset her and I did not know if she would be willing.
And as far as him treating one son better than the other, he probably is using a child to punish the mom, typical spath behavior.
for me personally, if someone was physically violent with me, i’d had to tell the new intended victim. just once and if they rebuffed me it’s on them then.
but i’d have to warn them. they will think of it also, when he does it to them and maybe they wil fight harder and get away. or maybe they will get away, becuz of his actions before the violence just being outrageous enough.
i just cudnt not warn someone, once.
Aha! I had to look through the thread but finally found a post about Hanalei’s job decision.
Great call, and good job! By putting the decision into their own laps, you determined the extent to which they’d be negotiable and flexible on other issues in future, which is to say not at all. They flushed their own hand on the deal and I am delighted it worked out as it did, before you found out even more harshly that they “weren’t negotiable” in spirit — as you certainly showed yourself to be, despite various misgivings.
Very proud to (virtually) know you and everyone else here! xox from the Mountains
ColoradoKathy, I’m pretty proud of myself! When I said it would be a hardship for me his response was “you seem pretty resourceful, you’ll figure it out”…click.
I’ve been spoken to in that manner in the past and accepted it (I work in a mostly male field) and it never boded well. Don’t need to accept it anymore at this stage of life.
It’s not the last (or best) offer I will get.
You’re so right!
In contrast, in 1980 I gave notice to my would-be employer that I’d be staying put because my old boss had met my wage and other demands.
He politely refrained from pointing out that during the interview, he’d predicted this would happen and I’d assured him I wouldn’t stay “no matter what.”
Later this gracious person became a supreme court justice. You can tell in every encounter, what someone is really like. I, for instance, could be bought at that age — but have since learned better. 🙂
Mine was Japanese/White…just figured I would chime in.
yeah its any culture that subjugates women on a cultural level.
not that WASP cultures dont. oh no, they certainly can too.
but ive just noticed the culture itself seems to produce these misogynist men.
defective men imo :p
Also, spaths use whatever they can in any given culture, institution and situation to justify and support their BS. My ex P, like many others, used Christianity and the church to get power (supposed to be responsibility) that he misused. He fake married me in the church thinking that he could trap me because I was committed to marriage as a commitment to God so he could be abusive, etc. and I could not/would not leave him. By the grace of God I discovered his porn. Matt 19:9 allows divorce if there’s adultery, which porn is. He also left and came back home often as part of his game playing, and probably wanting space to do porn uninterrupted and who knows what else. 1 Cor 7:15 allows divorce for desertion, so after the last desertion I didn’t let him come back.
Interesting, my first marriage (I was widowed) was to a wonderful, honest, loving, committed, man, who was Japanese White/European. His family are good loving people, too. My father in law was in the service stationed in Japan; my mother in law was a war bride. I dearly love all of them.
How interesting. Well, my ex was a white man from upstate New York. But he was evil. Come to think about it, I noticed red flags after a few weeks of dating him. How did I stay for over 20 years?
But from early on he was obsessed with his looks. He was worse than a woman in front of the mirror. He loved his reflection. Another red flag was that he suddenly started working out like crazy. He was always athletic but then hd got obsessed. He got real sloppy though in trying to hide his affair. Now what is interesting his little whore at work is Latino though. No idea. And it’s in my past. Whatever happened will never define me as a person. I am glad it’s over.
Taralev you will feel the same eventually. And then you can start a new chapter. Maybe with someone who deserves you or by yourself. You have a son. You are not alone.
i just have to ask, where in ny was he from or did u meet him?
I live in upstate NY lol
Thank you Annette
For posting the entire bible verse. Very appropriate I agree. And thanks for reminding me that children are just pawns and they don’t miss them. Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe that but it 100 percent true what you say. Anyone who is capable of inflicting so much pain on the mother of their children cannot honestly love them. My ex does not miss his son. He misses the image of a “perfect father and family”. That’s all. And all his b/s he writes to his son his garbage. Worthless jabber coming from a liar. We know his games and we don’t participate anymore. 20 years was enough. Now he can play those games with his co worker or all the other minions that find him so hot and sexy.