UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
Ironic
You were married right?
Sparkles back
To you ironic…lots of them
Janedoe
Yes we were married for 14 years – too long to be conned into believing I was crazy but he was normal and our marriage was worth it all…you live and learn!
Ironic
Yes live and learn baby 🙂
I hope so anyway
Spyware helped me learn janedoe!
Ironic
I can’t do the spyware unfortunately like you did. I don’t have access to his computer or laptop we are miles away from one another I don’t have access…
Good for you !!!
Janedoe
You are not alone. Spyware was an ootion for me but this opportunity will get harder and harder to implement as the spaths get more tech savvy.
Maybe cast a spell to reveal the truths – anything is possible, look at what we all got sucked into = under their spell!
Thanks. Yes you are right. He showed his only child what he is capable of. That he does not care one second where his son would live. Yes, my son was 18 but by far an adult. He was a full time college student living at home.
My son is not sad that the “jerk” left. He is sad for what he put us through after he left. But it made us both more resilient. We got up one day and said “bring it on”. Whatever he throws at us will come back at him in ways he never imagined. And it did. Because “failure is final “. Some things cannot be undone. The ex must live with knowing that he was truly a failure. Both as a husband, father and also as a provider.
I want to thank you all for keeping my head above water this past week. I haven’t even been up to posting but reading your comments help me. I feel like I’m not even in my body. I’ve been away from my home since Sunday because of my ex’s harassment and threats. But here’s the thing…he managed to scare the s**t out of me and worry for my safety and I haven’t even heard a peep from him. Aside from the fact I googled searched him (AGAIN) trying to find more answers and found that he’s created job profiles on four job networking sites that state he’s working in my same field and for the same company. Nevermind he’s not even qualified. I feel so threatened by this. But still, no word. You would think this would make me feel better but instead I’m more worried (is this his game?). Should I let my guard down? Am I still in danger? Did he get bored and is finally gone? I just think it’s so weird that the minute I left town he decided to leave me alone….Have any of you gone through anything like this before?? Any advice?
NoContact, I want to thank you for your kind messages. I meant to write back but haven’t been up to much, not even writing! I really need to get it together…..
I don’t understand why he’s made these fake job profiles, do you have any idea? It would be easier to assess the danger he poses to you if you knew why he is doing this.
It would also be good to know WHY he hasn’t been trying to contact you. It could be because you haven’t responded and he’s gotten bored. It could be because he knows where you are or what you’re doing. Is there anyway that he could be seeing your computer use or your location or phone use? My ex P’s cell phone was on a family plan with mine and I could go online and read the monthly bills and see every call he made and received.
I am always aware of possible danger from my ex P; there are several reasons why he would be glad if I dropped dead. Whenever I happen to get info about what he is doing or where he is, which isn’t very often, but still I try to have an awareness. I try to be reasonably safe and not do anything like announce to the world I’m going rock climbing in a remote area by myself. (Off the wall example, but what I mean is I try not to let any information that could make me or my son vulnerable to harm from him.) I also try to keep an awareness of my home – if anything seems off or not quite right, I stop and pay attention to it. I worry about sabotage, poison, staged accident. I have no idea what he would or wouldn’t do, so I keep an open mind. I spend some time thinking about the things he did and said over the 5 years or so I knew him in light of my understanding of where he was and is coming from. I remember some things he said that I didn’t pay attention to, that might be clues to his thinking and motivation. For example, why did he always carry an ax and rope in his car, and a lighter in his pocket though he didn’t smoke? There are a lot of legitimate reasons for a country (redneck) guy to carry these things, but I still keep it in my mind.
I think it would be difficult for you to assess the danger he poses to you longterm. It helps to go back over what you know about him in light of your knowledge that he’s probably a socio/psychopath and his motivations are power and control, and he doesn’t care whether he harms people. Anything he said to you could be a lie. If you know someone fairly well through their actions, you can figure out what was lies and what was truth, and what kinds of things motivate him, what does he want. My spath wants status and position in our church organization. He is highly motivated and married both times to further that goal. My existence and my knowledge of his behaviors is very much in the way of that.
The fact that your spath’s recent fake business profiles are in your field and the company you work for, indicates that you are on his mind.
AnnettePK, I think it’s smart that you’re always on the aware. Your path always had an ax and rope in his car and carried a lighter?? These men and their indirect threats (country redneck or not!)! Mine was the “unregistered gun”. If I never hear the words “Unregistered gun” again…..I think it’s good you take details such as that into consideration.
You bring up valid points. Very similar points to what my counselor at the women’s shelter has made. She said everything he says is lies but I need to look at patterns. I have known him for 20 years and as far as I know he has not hurt an ex (the counselor didn’t seem to put too much weight on this). She pointed out some things: He always gets revenge (with or without people knowing), he has told me past therapists have told him he’s a sociopath, cocaine addict (I didn’t believe that at the time) and his most recent therapist (I told him to go or I’d leave — doubt he even went) told him he has no boundaries. My counselor told me there are reasons he told me those things and much like you’re saying, I need to pay attention to what he’s been telling me — lies or not.
The WHY is what I can’t figure out. He knew where I was before. I can’t be certain he doesn’t know now. He’s a computer guy. My computer friend looked over my laptop and says it seems to be fine. I still need to figure out my phone, although GPS is shut off. I’m hoping he’s bored but small things are telling me otherwise. Like the job profiles (I’m in education and there’s no real reason to market yourself in education over sites like those)….not sure what that’s about but I my gut tells me he’s posting a threat to my job in some way. It’s crazy how crazy this all seems! Even my dad said, “You must be making this up.” But I have the sites to prove it and put them in docs.
I also got a Facebook friend request this week from a very attractive girl “friend” on his page. The profile seems fake. I went to look at his page again (I’ve blocked and unblocked him several times…he always keeps some info public, including friends), but when I went to his page again he had blocked me. I was actually thinking about blocking him again and getting off for good and then he blocks me?? So frustrating. Always one step ahead. I wrote the girl who friend requested me asking how I know her (even though I know it has to do with him). I’ve heard nothing back. I would like to think he’s bored, but the little things are still adding up.
He does have a 17 year old son and is so excited for him to graduate so that he can move out of town! He’s a perfect father, naturally (haha). He holds down jobs and currently works from home. The whole “no boundaries” thing still bothers me. He has a record. He’s committed crimes involving firearms (not that he’s used them — maybe he has). He knows very bad people who do very bad things. I know this for certain.
What bothers me:
-no boundaries
-his stupid gun
-his pattern of revenge
-his friends working for him like minions contacting me with/without threats (they’re acquaintances/friends I’ve known for 20+ years!)
-he wanted to “make” me his wife. I believe this to be true and that he would’ve made me pay for it.
-he hated me in high school and in college (only because I didn’t pay attention to him). I’m wondering if being with me was his revenge and if maybe that was enough and he’ll just go away?
I really just want to know if it’s safe to be at home again. I meet with my counselor at the end of next week for long term safety planning. I realize he can pose a threat for a long time. I left for things to de-escalate and they have, so why am I still feeling so scared?
I’m sorry my messages seem to run on for days sometimes. I’m just having a hard time staying in my head. This is such a release! I will forever be grateful to you for taking the time to help me with your insight. I don’t know your whole story, but it sounds like you’ve been through more than most should. I find strength in your awareness. How long have you been apart from your spath?
One more thing, you said when you know someone you know their lies from their truths. Funny thing is, whenever he’s talked about his crimes and revenge, he speaks of them short and sweet, and chuckles to himself like he is so proud. All other stories he tells over the top.
Than you for sharing this info. I’ve been mostly NC from my ex P for about 1.5 years, but it was winding down for a couple of years before that – we didn’t really live together, though we were ‘married.’
My perception is that your ex is potentially dangerous to you, depending on what suits his motive at any given time. Since he computer knowledgeable, you may not have phone and web surfing privacy. Consider getting a track phone, and getting another computer to use for awhile. He may know where you are. It is relatively easy to get some information even if he doesn’t have spyware installed. If he does, it may not be easy to detect. If you have the resources, it may be worth investing in a new computer and a new phone.
The surest way to know you’re safe would be if you could ‘disappear’ from his radar – move away and not leave a trail so it would be more difficult for him to find you, and hope he gets distracted focusing on someone/something else. If you’ve ever wanted to take a job overseas now would probably be a great time.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things to keep yourself safe. The counselor probably has some good ideas and advice, but ultimately you have the most information about your ex and your intuition is worth listening to.
Do you surf the web in ‘incognito’ mode? If he put spyware on your computer, it wouldn’t help, though.
Is there were some way you could know where your ex is and what he’s doing? You could try googling his computer IP address if you know it and see what comes up. You can get the IP from any email he sent you. If he’s computer savvy, he probably does not leave a trace.
I also told all my neighbors that my ex is not supposed to be around the house anymore and to just call 911 if they ever see him.
I’m so sorry that you’re uprooted at the moment with respect to your living situation. I hope things settle down for you and you can go home and be safe.
I’ve checked my computer but am still concerned. I am worried about my phone too. I’ve decided to have them both wiped out and start fresh. Hopefully this will work? I didn’t initially search incognito but started to this week.
I wish I knew what my ex is up to! Thanks for the IP address info. I managed to get 2 IP addresses….and only 2 out of all his emails! Seems he had 2 of everything…computers, phones. He had an extra phone for work (I’m so sure!) and brought it with him everywhere. He kept both phones on extreme lock down. He even convinced me to make my phone very private for safety reasons. Jerk. How do I go about getting info from an IP address? I found some sites but not really sure what they reveal…
Funny enough, we were supposed to move out of the country together next summer. I’m still planning to go, but need to stay for now. I’m closing on my house this month that I’ve been renting for years. I’ll rent it when I’m away next year. Unfortunately he knows I’m buying, hence staying. I’ve notified all of my neighbors to look out for him. Creepy thing….I have a new neighbor and hadn’t filled her in on my situation. I’ve had contractors in my house doing work this week (getting in with a lockbox). Anyway, she let me know that she believes someone was in my house late Wednesday night. She said she got a bad feeling and heard someone in my house (I’m in a town home community). She said the contractor left the blinds open. She even looked in my windows to see if she could see anyone! She’s definitely on high alert now. My neighbors have my contact info so they can keep me posted.
This not knowing what he’s up to is driving me crazy!! I remember he said he dated a lawyer and she ran a background check on him and left him. He assured me it was nothing serious. I’ve decided to run a background check on him…if there’s nothing to report that means he’s full of crap (and is better news for my safety), if there are things on his report I figure I’ll be better prepared.
1.5 years later….how are you feeling now? Please tell me it gets better! I’d love to get out of this fog sooner than later.
TDS,
To answer your question, how are things 1.5 years out. Every situation and every person is different, so there’s no set path to take. I don’t think of him every day. Among my closest friends he and his cross dressing has become sort of a joke, so a caricature of him comes up occasionally in conversation. But when I have an interaction with him or something to do with him (a couple of times a year over a tax or financial matter we are still separating) it can set me back. What brought me back to LoveFraud recently was having some time on my hands, and also a negative interaction with a woman I think he is currently targeting to use in some way.
TDS79
Referring to how you got a friend request from someone who your ex is connected to…
With fb these days, and it’s happened to me, I can be on someone’s page, someone I do not know of personally but may be curious about them for one reason or another..and I have hit “send friend request” by accident because the button was very close to another button I meant to hit…in other words, this friend request you received could be of someone who is friends with you ex, and is looking at you profile and accidentally, and possibly, without knowing…keep checking to see if the request is still there or has it disappeared? Which means once you contacted her and asked how she knew you, she may have noticed she accidentally hit “friend request” and then will either deactivate it or keep it there. Hope that helps a bit
Thanks for your perspective, janedoe. That thought also crossed my mind, but I’m not his friend on fb anymore. Maybe she remembered I was on his page before and wanted to do some research? For all I know he’s seeing her and got ahold of her phone. It may be a fake profile. Who knows, social media is so wide open! Her friend request is still there. I’ve thought about getting off. I did put all of our mutual friends on restricted access.
I’m so damn paranoid lately. I look at all possibilities. Sometimes I wonder if I’m ready into things too much, sometimes I don’t think I’m looking hard enough. I’m so over this crazy making!
TDS,
You might consider not using Facebook at all, not logging in. If you want to look, browse incognito or make a dummy profile. Things are so intertwined on Facebook, and your ex could interact with you through a fake profile. If he doesn’t see or hear anything from you, like you are ‘playing dead’ the less he has to think about and the more likely he is to get bored and leave you alone. The less he knows about you and what you are doing, even responding to someone else’s friend request, the safer you are.
TD
I’ve spent the last 14 years in craziness and this past week has not been any different since I left last week.
Your counselor has some really good advice which I’ve decided to take on board. I could never tell the lies from the truth. My spath was so good at spinning the lie and at lightening speed that I’d end up asking myself, what if I’m wrong even though I had the evidence to prove he was lying.
Looking at the patterns, paying attention to his actions only is the thoughts I went to bed with last night. This morning (Sydney time – Sunday and 1 week since I moved out) I’m finally starting to see it for what it is.
I could talk about the bazaar situation and character of my spath for hours but I’d still be confused if I focused on anything he said. The why can only be answered with “he’s a sociopath” that’s why! Why did I attract that situation – well I can only get one answer that satisfies me and makes some sort of sense about it but would my answer satisfy you I’m not sure because we each walk our own path even when this situation looks the same…
My spath also made subconscious threats. He was a policeman. He had a gun, confiscated weapons, a knack for intimation and the “missing list” he’d remind me about. He also threatened to bury me in the national park on several occasions. These threats I’m taking seriously, as aint said, be aware! But ultimately I have to follow my instincts, they have been proven so right on all occasions that I am only listening to that level of communication with this situation.
So if you fear the worst its because he wanted you to fear the worst. Be very careful! Your life is more important than anything else.
Sending love xxx
Another thing I thought of – Before I knew him, my ex P got angry at some opinions I expressed at a dinner party he and I happened to be attending. I think there was a connection between his (ridiculous) anger at me (whom he didn’t even know) and his targeting me, like he wanted to teach me a lesson or something. Their thinking is so twisted. I read somewhere that “Psychopaths like to keep their friends close and their enemies closer.”
I think you’re probably right that there is a link between your spath disliking you and then targeting you, but I think they continue their games as long as there is opportunity. Relationships for them don’t really have beginnings or endings. They return to previous ex’s in ways that normal people don’t do. They just go through life looking for opportunities to exploit and harm others.
I think my ex both disliked me and was jealous of me when he targeted me. We worked in the same department and I outranked him (but didn’t supervise him, we were in different divisions). My only real contact with him was in the weekly manager’s staff meetings with the boss with a room full of other people. I was the second in command and well respected and liked. At that time, I was at the top of my game at work. In contrast, he was surly, sullen and didn’t participate much. Honestly, a lot of people saw him as a weirdo.
I’ve mentioned here that his wife was ill and ended up passing away. Another person at work told him I had recently lost my dad and suggested he talk to me, and it seemed like before I knew it we were involved. (red flag missed)
Once we started spending time alone, he told me that he thought I was a goody two shoes, brown nosing the boss and volunteering for far too much responsibility, and that made me stupid…that all it did was get me more work. I had never thought of it like that, I LOVED my job and didn’t brown nose at all. I would have gladly volunteered for even more work.
Meanwhile, our boss thought my ex was a total loser and talked to me about it a few times…by this time I was very involved with the ex and thought he was misunderstood, but of course, that’s because I believed his own propaganda about himself.
Over time, he revealed that the things he seemed to value about me were actually shortcomings in his eyes: positive can do attitude, hard worker, living responsibily, saving money for the future, etc. Classic love bombing and then devaluing. This was early days, but I can remember thinking to myself, gee if you dislike me so much, then why are you with me? LOL – this was in the old days when I assumed everyone would automatically like me.
Thinking back now, it’s obvious to me that he chipped away at my professional pride and self esteem over the years, and it was effective. HIs subtle criticisms worked, since over time, I gradually started stepping back from the spotlight.
I can attest that they don’t think relationships have beginnings or endings. My ex was angry that I had been married before, and that I had had TWO dates in the several years between separating from my husband and getting involved with him. He HATED a man that I was very good friends with and thought the world of and did his best to discredit him in my eyes. I got my first and long planned tattoo in the first few months of seeing him – an early milestone birthday present to myself. I wouldn’t have even considered him a boyfriend at that time and certainly wouldn’t have okayed it with him – he was LIVID when I got that tattoo and let me know it over and over. Early signs of ownership.
Yeeeech.
H Moon, many similarities in your experiences to mine. I can relate.
I think the spaths are always jealous of whom they dislike. They don’t dislike people for reasons that normal folks don’t like someone – because they hurt the feelings of someone whom we care about, or they lack values, or they are not trustworthy. Spaths don’t like a lot of people due to envy or because they tried but were unable to manipulate someone.
TDS, I don’t think I answered you about getting info from the IP address. Unless he is using something called a ‘proxy’ IP, you can often find out his location where the email was sent from. Also, some websites have lists of visitors by IP address available on line that comes up in a google search. You can find some websites their computer visited, but not all. Also, sometimes anonymous posts to message boards list the IP address of the poster, which comes up in a google search. The info you get is pretty meager, but worth googling from time to time to see what comes up.
Ironic, I couldn’t reply to your comment to HanaleiMoon, but I think your constant supervision is okay, even if unhealthy. I so wish I could spy on my spath….it kills me not knowing what he’s up to. I could see spying on your ex spath could become addictive….heck, I’m still addicted in the not knowing, which is why I’m envious of your position! I’ve been speaking to a counselor from my local women’s shelter via phone. I’ve mentioned looking my spath up over Facebook and internet and how I know it’s unhealthy and need to stop. She said it does’t really matter what’s unhealthy or not — she feels I need to do what I feel is best (looking into him to predict things, etc). She recognizes I need to know all that I can and believes that at some point I’ll figure out my limits. I was surprised by her response, but I feel like this applies to us all, don’t you?
TD
Thanks for sharing what your counselor said regarding tge spying. That makes me feel a little less like a stalker and more protective of myself – although I think its more to prove that my decision to leave was correct so he has no chance of sucking me back in – still hurts to watch him move on so quickly and with the girls whose profiles he stalked for several years….
In three weeks it will be three years since I was discarded and I have gone through many stages of spying (if I could even call it that) and him occupying my mind. For the first year or so, I never even thought of spying, since he was invisible on the internet (as far as I knew) and 700 miles away from me. During that time it seemed there wasn’t an hour that he didn’t cross my mind.
Then, a friend sent me articles in the paper about him, regarding women filing claims because of his harassment. Over the next year or so, I googled him regularly, wanting to follow this topic, hoping I would see that he had been punished. I contacted two of the women and talked to one of them regularly for quite awhile. Both of these women received settlements and moved on…I doubt he crosses their minds anymore. They stopped calling me since he was no longer of interest to them. There was no settlement for me, I just lost and lost and lost, so I kept tied to him.
This googling lead to me finding out he was getting married which brought up a bunch of new feelings.
I believe this checking up, constant supervision, spying, whatever we called it, helped me feel like I was keeping myself informed and safe, even though, looking back, it really wasn’t. It gave me a sense of some sort of control. I needed that. We all do.
Thinking about him is something else all together. I had reached a point where the obsessive thinking was over. I had things to do (a job, a few new friends, taking care of the house and working to get it sold) and while he was a constant invisible presence, I moved away from thinking about him.
Since the house has been sold and I’m in another transition period, he’s crept back into my mind. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about him every day. This angers me because I’m sure he feels/thinks nothing of me, and i should have moved on, but I recognize that my mind goes there because I don’t have much of anything going on. Moved away from my friends, no job, spending too much time alone, etc. I also think about friends I have lost along the way. None of these people are thinking about me, they’re busy living their lives.
When I was in therapy, I told my therapist that it bugged the hell out of me that I thought so much about one particular friend who had drifted away from me. She gave me a great analogy for what was going on in my head. She said to think of my life as a bag of marbles. I used to have hundreds of marbles, and was so busy with them I didn’t pay too much attention to any one of them. But what he had done to me, ending with the discard, he had also emptied my bag of marbles. Now I only had three or four rolling around in my bag, and so each one took on greater importance, a bigger slice of the pie. So since I had so few friends left, this one drifting away took on way greater importance than it would have if my bag was still full of marbles. She said that once my bag was getting filled up again, as a natural course of rebuilding my life, these thoughts would eventually just disappear.
This analogy really worked for me and she was right. During the last months before the house sold, I didn’t think about much of these past events or people. Without realizing it, I was rebuilding a life. Then the house sold and I moved back to my original state. I thought it was a good thing, but as it turns out, it set me back. My bag of marbles is again pretty empty and the ones that are left take too much of my thought. I’m thinking of marbles that I don’t have anymore.
The answer of course is to start building/living my own life again. That is what all the people who are gone from my life have done, without a second thought of whatever happened to Hanalei, I wonder. Meanwhile, I am sitting here thinking about all these people and being pissed that they have moved on unscathed while I’m hanging out in limbo plucking my eyebrows into oblivion.
I try not to beat myself up. I’m doing the best I can, and tell myself it hasn’t even been six months since the house sold and getting my sea legs. I’m not living in an area I will be staying in and need to decide where I’m going and go there. I need to find a job, get involved in things and get going. My pre-discard life was so busy I didn’t have a minute to breathe and I loved it. Now, all I have is me, breathing.
Don’t know if any of this makes sense. Just things on my mind. Over the past few weeks my thoughts have turned far too much to the past, thinking of people, places and things that are long gone. It’s because my bag of marbles is pretty much empty. I need to get my ass in gear and start filling it up again. That, I think, is the way to move on from all of this.
Thanks for sharing how the process works for you. I’ve been blessed with a life full of ‘marbles,’ but I pushed a lot of them away when I was in the psychopath years. I was blessed that I was able to reconnect with people and groups that I neglected. I lost some things and very regrettably I hurt some folks. The lost time is painful and one of my biggest regrets.
Hanalei,
Makes a lot of sense to me as this is where I am now. For me however, I think mine lives in stealth mode, as I am never able to find out any information on him. So that part is frustrating because I feel if I knew some things, it would help stop the obsessing a little? But maybe not? I really don’t know? I just know either way, its really hard, and I’m having a tough time. I too, was busy for a while, getting the house sold and all the appointments that came with it, but now that part is over and it’s just myself. I do work a busy job and I’m grateful for that, but the weekends are tough for me as I’m by myself. And I do try my very best to remain positive and make a new life for myself, but again not always easy. I do have friends but all are married or families, I try hard to just set out by myself and do, but sometimes that doesn’t always work, it’s lonely and I get sad/depressed. And of course losing my home and being in a small apartment is not where I want to be, so that adds to it. And I do want to say that I am very grateful and thankful for the things I do have in my life and I know that it could always be worse, I really do. Sometimes the healing process is just so hard, it consumes us. Heal with time, as they say. I hope time will be on all of our sides.
sashastrong, it does sound like we are in a similar place. Having a job would be a lifesaver for me, my entire week is like your weekends.
I’m thankful too for all that I have, and know that it could be much, much worse.
I know that the future is in my hands – I need to make it happen. I feel like its hard at this age, but I guess it would be hard at any age.
It is hard at any age, but definitely harder as we get older. We literally have to start over, some of us still have friends but some lost everything. I consider myself a social person, but I will admit that I’m not “feeling it ” as far as joining a bunch of singles groups, or adventures, etc. even though i want to get through this and rebuild my life, I’m just not there yet. So it can be hard to meet new people right now, sad to say,I’m not sure how?
sashastrong, I am a social person too, and “before” it seemed that work, my small circle of friends and the relationship with the ex was plenty. I am not sure how to bring new people into my life. Where I am living now is a bedroom community of younger families and there are no opportunities to connect here. I volunteer once a week but it is 80 miles from my home – while I seem to be making connections while I am there, nothing will come of it because I live so far away.
I often think how much “easier” it would have been for me had I only lost one or two things – the relationship plus (pick one) home, job/career, friends, perceived family, lifestyle, financial stability. As it happened, I lost it ALL at the same time and was far from where i had lived my whole life. I’m sure I’m not unique, but I feel like if I would have had one of those “norms” to hang on to, I wouldn’t have felt so lost. Maybe I would have anyway.
It is ironic now that I’ve returned to my home state and I feel more like a fish out of water than ever. I can’t get a toehold back in my career and I see what I built and lost may be impossible to rebuild here…everyone’s moved forward and I moved backward. The new state that I left behind now seems more like home. Maybe I can’t be comfortable anywhere now!
Hanalei,
I completely understand that, there are no opportunities to connect with anyone where I am living now either. I know you mentioned that you are back home to help family but do you think or know if you will be remaining there? Is it just your location that prevents you from having a job, If you don’t mind me asking? I try to think of this as a temporary set back, and I keep reminding myself of how strong I was before Look at how successful you were in your job, and everthing you did, etc. and those of us that lost our homes, it sounds like we, all of us, were the ones who put all our own money down and furnished, landscaped, gardened, our own homes. So, while I know it sounds cliche, I know that we can all do it again. I try to make it a goal, I search around for where I want to live, and plant my roots, and try to make it a goal for myself, something to work and look forward to. And i hope that here is where more opportunities will arise and I can begin to feel more like “me” again. I know different things and ways work for different people, and there’s no right or wrong way.
A very kind friend of mine delicately reminds me that if my ex knew the heartache, loneliness, pain, that I was going through and he was causing, he would be so elated! This would be his win! This is what he wants. And while he’s done and gotten away with a lifetime of betrayal and damage, it’s my friend’s reminder that puts the oomph in my step, lights the fire under me and recharges me to keep going and fighting. He’s taken enough from me, I refuse to let him put me under.
My heart truly goes out to you, my thoughts and all my prayers are for all of us to get through this and find our ways, and to heal from these evil monsters. Hugs to you! Xx
HanaleiMoon
I so understand the place you’re in. I’ve gotten away. I am free because I am divorced. Like you say, I am grateful for my recovery. But I feel like I don’t belong anywhere. I have No “place” where I fit.
But to escape, I had to move nearly 2000 miles. I lost ALL my “identity”. My only child left at the same time, who is now completely estranged from me (deep deep grief about that). No friends. I had a terrible birth family and I divorced them 30 years ago. I checked them out and they are worse than they were 30 years ago. I lost my career, which like you, I had built up. But all my clients are “back there”.
I am no longer depressed, but I feel like the world passed me by. I am of an age where finding a decent job is unlikely. For a long time, I could NOT work, I was an anxious mess. I have no work history was self employed, which when applying for a job, is the same as NO employment. I have no references.
I am not whining, I am just assessing reality. I am not lonely, but I am so very alone. I am invisible.
We survivors need to final step I think. Someone to say “here’s how a totally cutoff barely survived death person gets a life where they feel like a contributor again”.
One of the awful outcomes of being married to my ex is discovering how meaningless so much of life used to be, that so much was at the whim/the control of another… memories, values, friends, status, community, service, faith….
I have my faith back, it’s what helped me to escape. But I can’t seem to find a place where I matter to anyone but me, and that feels self centered. I volunteered and did I imagine a power play by that organizer? No. The power play was real. I’m just not into being diminished anymore. There’s a lot I won’t tolerate anymore. No gossip. No venting anger on me. No ridiculing or put downs. No triangulation.
Am going to ponder this final hurdle. It’s real and we need guidance!
sashastrong, it has been suggested to me too that by being sad, or struggling, I am letting him win. That’s nonsense as far as I’m concerned – he did what he did, and he thinks he won anyway (or, likely doesn’t think about it at all). It is what it is, and I feel how I feel. If I’m happy or sad has no effect on his “winning”. It happened and I’m dealing with it as effectively as I can.
I also think of this as a temporary setback and that things will get back on track again, things can’t happen all at once. I built the life I had, true, but there are some realities to consider: age, the economy and a new aversion to risk are three of them for me.
I did return to this state (my home state) for family reasons. My mom is 84 and living with my 51 year old alcoholic brother. That situation has become increasingly unmanageable for her for a variety of reasons, and I feel I need to be close to her. I am now living in the same general area I was before I left, thinking it would feel good for me to come “home” and it backfired.
As for jobs, it is a very competitive market and I am on the edge of being too old. When I left, I took an early retirement from a government job and can’t go back to the public sector without suspending my retirement – this is not an option since I got some valuable perks from the agency I retired from that I would lose. I am looking in the private sector, which is a good old boys network, and all my contacts have dried up. As for the economy, I can’t afford to buy a house here without a full time job, at least for a few years.
I feel like a loser because I can’t afford to live in the state I spent my whole life in with the exception of the last 3 years.
NotWhatHeSaidofMe, you said it! We have lost our identity. And we want to be contributors again.
It is a bitter pill to swallow to come to the realization that you’ve been thrown away by someone you love, lived to tell the tale and realize that you can’t get back on the train where you stepped off. I am also assessing reality, and what the best plan is for me.
I mentioned aversion to risk in my last comment. I was always ready to take a leap, knowing I’d land on my feet. With this experience, and age, I feel the need to be very careful. Not only that, but I don’t trust…the person I loved and trusted the most took everything from me, so it’s easy to project that on everyone else – what do they want to take from me?
It IS a final hurdle. I compare it to coming out of prison after 10 or 20 years incarcerated…the world has moved on, how do we find our place in a new world?
Dear Everyone,
Something is so different today, that I want to send this post to memorialize it and “for what it’s worth” to the rest of you.
My pain is gone today.
I can’t explain it.
It actually began around 2001 when the x quit his longtime job and refused to get another, sighing in irritation whenever the subject was mentioned. It progressed through bankruptcy in 2005, the loss of my business, horses and community reputation, credit I’d been building since 21 and so on. Then his father died in 2009 and the pain level went up Up UP as he inherited money and cut the kids and me out of his life so he could grab as much as possible, letting our home go into foreclosure. At that point, he pronounced us “even.”
And, there is something worse that I have to share, please accept my apologies in advance for writing the words ahead.
It’s very hard to say this and it will be hard to read, so please take a breath before you read this, ok? (gulp) My ex’s OW was murdered and the perp of that crime is still undetermined.
Take another breath, ok? (gulp) Her 2YO grandson was murdered along with her. They were brutally stabbed in their apartment, earlier this year.
(breath)
Yes, I did call the police to report that my ex had a relationship with this person and that I thought he was disordered (but how often do they believe us?). She was actually living a very dysfunctional, distressed life — and any one of a number of people around her could evidently have been weird enough to commit this horrible crime. So please understand, I am not accusing my x of having murdered his Friend and grandbaby! but rather expressing the incredible trauma of having ANY association with such an event — not to mention his having told me (whether truthfully or otherwise) that her family supposedly thinks he did it. The police must not agree since he’s still right there in his apartment and the crime is now several months past and “growing cold” for lack of suspects.
Talk about wishing you’d bailed out a long time ago!! omg!!! the thoughts I have had, the feelings I’ve suffered….
Meanwhile of course, our kids have continued to see their dad while occasionally remarking that he is crazy. Have I been scared? Have I wondered … ? … imagined …? and occasionally believed the worst? My dear friends: I have.
Today my “heart pain” is gone for some totally unknown reason! it’s as though I have crossed some inner bridge that possibly a future neurological or biological test could detect within me. I’m not scared, I’m not especially angry, but most importantly I am not sad.
Somehow, I know it’s Over now. ?? Such a mysterious non-feeling that I had to share it on these pages.
I hope that you all know how important you are and have been to me, over these torturous last years! On many nights when I came home from work (the kids and I have had to work, but he’s rich so he gets to stay home to drink and watch porn movies instead) fellow posters have literally kept me alive by these exchanges of affection and support, health and wisdom, humor and grace.
God bless you all! xox and I’ll keep you posted as to “what in the world” has changed. The jangling of my spirit is quiet, like a ringing in the ears that has fallen silent — something has Gone. I’ve even tried to restore it, like touching a burn to set off the nerves, and it won’t relight! this is so unlike me that it bears mention, as in a roomfull of people without name tags you would instantly dub me “the insecure, sensitive one” and be right every time.
And tell you what: if this turns out to be what the yeast-inhibiting probiotics I’ve started taking are doing for me, I will be sending everyone a full 30-day supply, and the DV shelters will be emptied out and refilled as pet rescues in the same 30 days. 🙂
ACK! now I’m worried I’ve grossed everyone out and can’t edit my post. Funny how we feel a sort of “stain by association,” I’ve grieved over the death of OW and child, and somehow feel shamed …
Very sorry if tmi, please forgive me if what I wrote was additionally traumatizing.
I guess it just goes to prove, if you think it can’t get any worse, just stick around (or, taralav, if you are “lurking” go back). Years ago, I sputtered Another Woman?! then found myself sputtering YOUR Money?! and thought it was impossible my association with him could bring me and our grown daughters any further damage. How could I’ve have imagined I’d end up moaning Our daughter’s going to die of MS?! or screaming Now you’re talking about being a MURDER SUSPECT??!
Part of the “hippie generation,” my expression for the whole last 14 years has been: O.D. As in Overdose, Too Much, Way Too Heavy, I’m Outta Here. So again if I made you feel the same way by revealing just how horrific my spath’s issues have been lately, please accept my apologies. Looking back on it, I’d thought pretending to have prostate cancer was bad and didn’t want to tell y’all about THAT! 🙂
Sasha,
I have found throughout my life at all ages that the best placed to meet people are things related to a common interest, or in the workplace. Volunteering, joining a dance club, joining a church, sailing club, hiking club, library reading club, working with children group, singing, town planning advisory board, crafts, science, museums, historical society, social and political activism…the choices are limitless in mid to large sized communities. I have found that doing activities that I am truly interested in has led to meeting may new friends and acquaintances. I’ve also met people through my son, and friends of friends. Where I live is a fairly social town, people do a lot of things.
I am sure it is difficult to be uprooted later in life, but the principle should work just at a slower pace for more mature folks. My next door neighbor moved to assisted living in her late 80’s and was delighted at meeting and socializing with the other residents and the staff. She truly made new friends that she cared about. It was an inspiration to me.
Sasha, sounds like your kind friend has an accurate perception of your ex’s motivations.
Annette,
Thank you, those are excellent suggestions, some I’ve even thought of before. I too live in a fairly social town, and I enjoy doing things, even trying out new things and I consider myself a social person, but, I don’t know, right now I guess I’m in that state of pain/betrayal/hurt?? Not really sure where I’m at? I feel and know that I want to do these things for myself but I just don’t seem to be there yet. I don’t feel myself yet, I was in a store last week and I broke down, couldn’t control the emotions and tears and had to leave before people would think I was nuts! Some weeks I feel strength and positivity, other times i feel lost, unable to make a decision, not wanting to go out. I don’t know if I’m making sense or not? It’s only been two months out for me, it’s still so traumatic.
Just takes time, I know time will heal and before long i will be involved in things and meeting new people.
Hanalei Moon, I agree that feeling grief isn’t about letting the ex win. Staying in a competition mode with the ex’s is probably letting them win more than refusing to participate in anything that acknowledges their existence as much as possible. We win when we’re not in the game with them, and the way we win doesn’t mean someone else is losing. Real win means everyone can win.
Annette, I’d like to add to your last post by saying that spaths are good at presenting the Lose/Lose proposition, for instance: live with me as a cheater, or go without. That’s one of the facets of traditional abuse: offering two choices that are both bad choices.
No Contact, I’m glad you shared these horrific things because they are a part of your experience. Your story is not complete without these things. It is shocking, but I’m not too freaked out because I have come to the understanding that a Psychopath is evil for real. They are in the world and they are responsible for all the murders on every level. A person doesn’t do some things bad and some things good. The motive is the same across the board. For the first couple of years with my abusive ex P I was constantly amazed at how far he would go – I expected there was some line he would not cross in abuse, hurting us, lying, but there was not. The only limits he has are whether he thinks he will get caught or not.
I’m not sure what jurisdiction the murders were in but 2 months is not very long into an investigation. If the police are working it, they won’t say what’s going on. If the victims were disenfranchised from society, maybe they won’t try very hard to solve it.
I think your gut feeling is important in assessing whether your ex did it or had anything to do with it and whether he is a danger to you. If he’s capable of this, he is potentially dangerous. It’s worth considering, and if you maintain the inner peace and over the hump perspective, you are in a strong position to think logically and clinically about him potentially harming you. Do you have a sense of any motive he would have had to do this?
Re the probiotics: they could very well be contributing to you feeling better. The word kefir (drink full of probiotics) means ‘pleasure drink’ in Russian.
Annette, I really appreciate your thoughts and kindness, since my sister thinks I’m downright crazy to suspect him! while in contrast, everything I’ve seen about him and read on these pages has convinced me that nothing is too weird for him to do. Since it happened, I’ve been traumatized many times more than previously — since like everybody else, I’d harbored a sort of rage against her for being involved in the breakup of my marriage, then she died violently at only 50 years old (baby’s death too painful to contemplate).
It was all the “usual story” so I won’t bore you with the details — like an internet list of “how to know” tips! — new underwear, new mustache, new cellphone I couldn’t touch, late hours, the sniff of perfume, and once even calling me by the wrong name in bed. Maybe I’m in Denial to this extent, but I don’t think they were lovers in the usual sense, but instead that she was his next intended target (his imaginary lover, in other words) but already had an established bf of her own.
The crimes occurred in January and the police has announced it’s out of leads. The family has launched a website and CrimeStoppers has offered a paltry ($2000) reward. I think it’s possible the daughter did it, also possible the whole family was a group of drug-dealing thugs and may have ripped a customer (?) or supplier off. Many police calls to that place since they rented it shortly before the crime, and they’d been asked to split already (why would you call the police on your neighbors? because they were arguing loudly? or maybe openly dealing drugs in front of your place?!) Association with this level of behavior isn’t just sordid, it’s dangerous as you point out.
I think it’s possible that my X knows something or may be involved. First is my intuition! the way he told me, the things he said (“she was too stubborn”) and not said (“I wonder what happened?”) and his mannerisms overall.
For motive, I’d point out that he’s lost his 30yr marriage, family, home, many funds, job and reputation — and is living in a 1bd apartment that even we survivors would consider minimalist digs. I’d called just to leave a v/mail after daughter told me of the news report (“Gee, I heard about your friend, you must be shocked, I am very very sorry”) and when he called me back, he volunteered that she had a vicious mouth that might have provoked someone into hurting her.
Annette — within the first several months after someone’s death, I can’t imagine saying much in the way of a negative comment about them, especially under these circumstances. Even for a spath, that chilly reaction seemed awfully severe! — so I immediately contacted my local police, along with police in the county in which it occurred and the (third) county of his residence — to report my own experiences but also, his having many times told me that the poor woman was living in a dangerous environment with family members who “used her” and exposed her to harm. So just in case he didn’t tell them himself, in order to cover himself about whatever relationship he had w/them, you can bet I did!
One of our posters named herself Ironic. Get this: I am a longtime legal support worker, and much more comfortable using the judicial and law enforcement systems than most women in my circumstance — but I’m STILL sweating this out! What it must be like for people without my background, I can only imagine.
Thanks again, Annette, your support very much appreciated. And internet research confirms it: apparently our intestines really do have some effect on our emotions! Never had a GI problem that I knew of and could never have imagined this effect, but I actually DO feel calmer after eating capsules of (good for us) bacteria, lol.
Each situation, each story is different, and everyone has their own beliefs and opinions, whether right, wrong or indifferent, but the heartache, betrayal, and pain is very similar with all of us. I do not think that my grieving is letting my ex win. I am a human being, I have feelings and emotions. I am only trying to get through this nightmare that has occurred in my life, I am trying to heal the best that I can.
Sasha, I agree with what you just wrote: it is not a “defeat” to grieve and it’s not a competition anyway, it’s a process.
Unless you know of some way to get from New York to California without crossing the Rockies, we simply must cross through the mountains at some point. While there, it does no good to pretend we’re someplace else, just to remember it’s a necessity en route to California.
Well, I suppose one could take the other way around the world! but that’s a long ocean transit, even worse than creeping up passes and mucking through valleys — my point being, it is better to feel grief now, than have it jump out unresolved and ready to strike, at some later time that might be even worse — like after your two front dental crowns pop off from eating taffy, lol.
No Contact,
Seems like you are a very nice person willing to give unselfishly. I can’t imagine offering condolences to an ex over a girlfriend’s death, especially one he cheated on you with. I’m just not that nice. Taking the high road in this way is bound to generate good karma in your life. It’s an inspiration to me, too.
It sounds like the murders are such that even if the police catch someone who is tried and convicted, there may still be doubts as to who really did it and what happened. Lots of complexities.
I am curious why you think the daughter may have murdered her mother and child? That would be pretty extreme.
Do you know if the police have interviewed your ex?
I don’t think spaths ever have lovers in the usual sense; they just use people in their never ending cycle of evil.
Yeah, his response is pretty weird, even for a spath. I would think that he would at least fake grieving the loss of someone he was in a relationship with. For whatever reason he is offering comments that seem to be designed to get people to think someone else had a reason to do it. As well as you know him, your assessment of his reaction almost certainly indicates he at least knows something.
What does he have to gain by her death?
This whole thing seems like it would be such a black cloud over your life. It is very creepy. I would feel unsettled until/unless it is solved with some certainty.
Physical components, especially diet, have a lot to do with mood and thought processes. Taking junk food vending machines out of jail and schools correlates with a reduction in violence and discipline problems. There is empirical evidence from numerous studies that changes in the physical environment and the food supply are contributing to negative mental health trends.
No Contact, I also wanted to add that it’s not unusual your sister doesn’t perceive that your ex could be as dangerous as you know he potentially is. Spaths that get by as long as he has doing what they do are very good at putting out a good impression. It worked on all of us here at one time. I saw and heard my ex Psychopath through a filter of expectation of his normal motives and normal thoughts, so I missed the red flags. I had no idea what to look for. Until the cognitive dissoanance got pretty bad, I did not see him clearly and it was years before I realized the depth of his evil. Before the spath experience, when I heard victims describe abusive experiences, I heard them through a filter of my beliefs that no one can really be that bad and both parties always contribute to relationship problems. I really didn’t hear completely and accurately through my filters what I was being told. Consider that your sister’s opinion is a product of where she is coming from, and that you have a better understanding to assess your ex.
BTW, does he have an alibi? Do you have any idea where he was when the murders happened? Off topic. but I’m curious, no need to answer.
Hey Annette and all, happy Sunday! we should start another response thread, as this one is getting pretty convoluted, huh? hard to find a good place to hit Reply.
Annette, thanks for your questions and unemotional focus, my sister lives in another state and thankfully has been spared any similar encounters so she can’t relate. While telling me it’s plain Ridiculous! that my X could be involved in anything so heinous, she simultaneously wishes we would all move to where she is. So I figure her instincts are jangling or at least that I’ve unsettled her with my concerns.
It’s such a Freedom to be here and not have to begin statements with “believe it or not.” My X BOASTS about being a suspect, Annette, and I have absolutely no idea whether he is, or not. He TOLD me he has no alibi and that they’ve interviewed him three times! is any of this true? How in heck would I know?
What I do know is, if he’s a suspect I don’t want the kids around him and am mystified why they don’t seem to get this. ?? If he’s not been interviewed and/or has been cleared, then why in the world would he tell me something else? Because he is a Grade-A Number-One Garden Variety Spath, that’s why!
If it turns out he does know something, that would also be the answer to your perfectly valid question: WHY? Because spaths get a Boot out of Revenge, for the pure thrill of Spite — so she may have said or done something to him, that in his “mind” justified the outcome.
As for the daughter, I didn’t ask (or want to know) the details when he’d talk about his Friend and the “dangerous conditions she’s in with her family” because I — well — I was jealous and mad at her for intruding on my life by (for instance) entertaining him at her home while he should have been at ours. Were they drinking? sexing? mething?
Were these “dangerous conditions” drug deals that exposed everybody in that place to crime and disaster?
I can say that married men do not stay at MY home into the wee hours of the night, while their wives repeatedly call the cell. I think he was grooming her and thought she was lined up, was going to leave me and spend his money on her — but she wouldn’t leave her existing attachments, or push him out the door to make him go back home either.
At one point years ago, he told me “she treated (me) with respect” — Get that! as though the OW is entitled to be part of our lives so as “treat us” in any manner at all! and I took that to mean, “My Friend tells me to go home and be a good husband and father, this only makes me love her more.” “She is a way better woman than you are,” in other words. And also … “she doesn’t want me.”
Illustrating the Spath madness, while we were in the post-divorce phase splitting up the accounts, he very much didn’t want to do this and I said something to the effect that he should have made other choices earlier. He said (and I quote) “She’s gone now,” as if to say, “So what’s the problem?” What he’d wanted was to stay married to me but live alone with a “private life” and that’s what eventuated for the first few years while he continued to groom her and probably many others, too (apparently without success).
I’ve joked about sharing a husband with one (or more) of you as a “sister” but didn’t envision having one forced on me! One by one, my options got taken away until the one he wanted was the only one remaining. Like everyone here, I’ve waited to Awaken and find him at my door as someone I recall, but instead it’s been an unending Nightmare of revelations.
NoContact,
I loved your points about the grief process. And I’ll be sure to stay away from taffy! 😉
Hanalei
What a crack up! I had a vision of you plucking your eyebrows – that was funny and I needed the laugh so thank you ♥
At first, while reading this post, I cringed with the thought that I’d be still consumed with thoughts of my spath in 3 years. I moved out to be rid of the craziness but I’m forever grateful that you shared your journey with us. You’ve given me the motivation to get off my butt and go and create the life I yearned for instead of hiding out in my little flat spying on my spath and obsessing over whether he’s already moved on? I’m almost convinced he has as the spyware has showed he hasn’t done porn since Tuesday last week, the day after I left he was requesting contact, via private message, from all the women he stalked on Facebook for years – he tried to contact them the morning after I left! I’m so stupid!!! Ok I’m still obsessing!
I also loved the analogy from your therapist although I haven’t lost anyone at this point – no one important anyway, I have removed acquaintances from my friends list on fb because I had to choose who was important to me and who I can trust 100% to see me through the war I’m about to enter into…Some people just have to much opportunity to be in the spaths life so they went.
I have a desire for more adventure playground activities so I’m now thinking why wait. This is what I got from your post so thank you xxx
ironic, glad I could give you a laugh!
I’m not consumed with thoughts of him, he’s just lingering in my mind…like on the edge. It’s weird. I went for many months where he didn’t cross my mind for days or even weeks except in passing as it related to the house, so I think this is some sort of last gasp my brain is having as I go through what I hope is the last transition before I settle down. We were together for seven years, that is a good long time so maybe it’s to be expected. I truly feel that I wasn’t free from him until the house sold, because that event sure stirred up a lot of s##t in my head, so while it seemed like it was over way before the house sold, it flipped me into a kind of relapse.
Definitely the message is move on, live life, get involved in other things. Stay busy. Keep engaged in things you love, plan some little (or big) getaways as finances allows, be good to yourself. I believe that when we are living life as we are meant to, everything falls into place (assuming no psychopaths are involved of course). I know for myself, when I am busy and doing things and being around other people, all that old stuff fades into the background.
Where I am right now was a false start. I’ve been here exactly 4 months and it seems like a year at least. I learned a lesson, and that is that this isn’t the place for me. Onward.
No Contact,
Dont laugh; it could very well be the push you needed to get you over the edge into peace, from the probiotics. I know of a well-respected psychiatrist who does not treat with pharmas anymore except for dire circumstances. She uses food, and supplements with extensive lab work showing what to take.
Im not minimizing the hard work youve had to do over the years…but now you may be at the place where the probiotics are allowing your gut to do what it needs. It’s called the second brain in functional medicine.
I have some successes with supplements and dietary mods but my head is still so messed up that im slitting my own wrists, so to speak, most days. My body just waits for my head to let it heal itself.
I am just sooo happy you’re away from the evil subhuman and that your pain is gone 🙂
Aint, hearing from you again was very healing for me, THANK YOU.
It’s hard to explain the many feelings these unbearably tragic events have provoked, but among them has been a guilt by association.
So, thank you for your response! and your words of wisdom as well. I DO think our bodies drive much of our emotional responses and that detoxing in general is a good idea. Feel a lot different on the probiotics, but also “in myself,” you know what I mean: my eyes aren’t puffy, lol.
Like many divorcees with adult children following a long marriage, it’s optimal if former partners can somehow get along well enough (even if one of them is a spath) to minimally attend events like college graduations and stuff, right? but since I went 95% NC last year (not calling him back unless I thought it was important, my discretion), he’s seemingly “concentrated” his venom into the few mandatory encounters remaining! — leaving me to dread holidays and graduations.
I’d thought life was surreal before, what did I know? It was actually my oldest daughter who told me about the tragedy (I’d had dinner with the younger one, who did not raise the subject), saying Mom, I have something terrible to tell you, it’s about dad’s friend…. It had been on the News but of course I didn’t associate it. We wept … 🙁
No Contact,
I wasnt traumatized myself. My babydaddy spath has probably murdered as well. Especially when he’s in a blackout rage (it’s lasted up to 3 days before, but I’ve never witnessed it myself; I would not stick around for that) I would not put it past him. He has told me of his family’s pigpen on a way-backwoods farm where they deposit the bodies of ppl who get in the way…as in specific ppl. The pigs eat the evidence. Whole one side of the family is psychotic outlaws and think theyre above the law. So it’s totally feasible.
Alot of ppl on here have spaths from hell. Your story is just as important. And who else would believe you? Telling it here may be the only place to tell it. ~hugs~
Aw thanks again, Aint, it’s hard to even DESCRIBE how creepy life has become, and you are 100% right: there is absolutely nobody else to tell.
Therapist: Make a safety plan to protect yourself.
Sister: Oh don’t be RIDICULOUS, that’s ABSURD.
Inner Mind: ?????!!!
Route to California:
Left at Dallas to El Paso, I10 to Los Angles. Stop in Texas and visit me.
Thinking back on my post, “spying” isn’t really how I feel about it. We’re monitoring so that we learn more, stay aware and try to predict future moves — at least this is why I do it. I want to know more and I want to know what he’s up to! I’ve decided not to beat myself up over my obsession along the way…
I’ve read your posts in the past about the girls he stalks. I wonder if this is more common than not? How does he go about the stalking? And for years? That’s just nuts. I’m happy that it serves as a constant reminder for you to not get sucked back in. Sometimes I feel like this is all in my head and that things weren’t that bad. And then I go to this forum, I do more reading, and I remember that I’m making a good decision. It’s a strange feeling, especially because I know he’s a bad man!
Ironic, the post above was meant for you. I thought I was typing in a response to your previous response to me. Oops! I’m still curious about your ex and his stalking. I know my spath from high school and he would occasionally contact me over Facebook before he asked me out on fb. I think he’s had it out for me for a while. Social networking seems like a good place for spaths to start their action plans….
TD
Sorry for the delay responding but I saw something this morning that made me furious. The spyware helped me discover the information but only because I knew where to look. By lunchtime I was only angry then this afternoon I switched on my inner warrior and now I’m a danger to his future! He never should have backed me this far into the corner! So yes the spyware has finally saved me from ever questioning myself or instincts again, I too would eventually question whether it was that bad…grr!
As for him stalking other women, he’d just look at their fb profile, some he looked at monthly and others weekly. Tge 2 weekly victims have been contacted by him since I’ve left and both have responded with a positive vibe and given him their numbers – I bet they don’t know about each other but he is their problem. Financially, I’m about to become his biggest nightmare and I have the means, legally and the knowledge to do it.
End rant!
It sounds like your counselor is wise and realistic. I indulged all my coping behaviors when I perceived that they were temporary stages I was going through. I wrote and sent angry emails to him. Then I wrote a lot I didn’t send. At one point I spent days numbing my mind playing solitaire on the computer like a zombie and doing next to nothing else. I checked up on what he was doing for awhile. I talked to others about him and how awful he is. I discerned that if I got stuck in one of these behaviors for a long time it would be unhealthy, but I moved on when whatever I was doing ran its course.
I had some PTSD symptoms when my first normal husband passed away unexpectedly. For example if I went into a store to get something and couldn’t find it right away, I’d freak out and need to leave after a short while. I didn’t like sleeping inside (like some war vets). I had a strong aversion to some normal social situations. I was blessed that I didn’t have to work for a couple of months and I allowed myself to do what ever I felt like if possible. I slept outside in a hammock, if I felt like walking out of any situation I did so, I drove around a lot to beautiful places in the country but couldn’t stay in any spot long (like an hour or so). The PTSD went away in a few months, and I gradually got back to normal. I was blessed to have very supportive family and friends. Survivors of pathological relationships often don’t have that, sometimes we just have ourselves.
Annette, I actually think I fared better in the months/year after the discard than I am now, now that I am free to move forward. That makes little sense to me (and, maybe with time, the horror of that time has faded).
I see it like this – I was very competent at life before the discard. I had a fast paced job that took full attention, a couple of good friends, a home I loved, and was always busy with my ex traveling and doing things (even if it was miserable a lot of the time). I seemed to take everything in stride and handle problems easily. At the time of the discard, I was still this person – so even though it was horrible, I did what I had always done, and did what needed to be done.
The three years of doing what needed to be done, along with regular knocks of life during that time, seem to have worn me out and I don’t have that reserve of pre-discard Hanalei to draw on to recreate my life. Does that make any sense?
I’ve come to think of it as a kind of savings account I had to draw from but those three years emptied it out and so I have nothing more to withdraw and so I’m floundering. I can’t seem to make a decision and move forward one way or the other.
Part of me is very worried that the old me (pre-discard) is gone, never to return and I need to get used to this new me, and I am uncomfortable being her. Miserable, actually. I want to be the old me, peppy, engaged in life and a smile on my face and a spring in my step, just happy to be alive. I don’t like being this person who is afraid at all.
I think she’s not completely gone, because on my volunteering days, I feel like myself again, if only for a few hours. Geesh I’m just scared these days, when I thought I’d be back to “normal” when I got to this point.
I relate to what you write. I struggle with similar issues. I did not realize how deeply the spath relationship had damaged me until afterwards, and the farther out I am the more I realize how much I have been changed by it and how much I lost. All experiences change one; sadly the spath experience is pretty much all negative changes,other than learning some sad truths. I grieved who I was and what I lost of myself (more accurately what was taken from me) and my life. I try to accept where I’m at and make the best of it. For me, it’s difficult to discern how much of the change in me is the spath relationship, the effect of chronic Lyme disease, other stresses, and just plain aging (I’m 55). I definitely feel a lost innocence, lost joy, lost enthusiasm, due to the spath. From what I have read, that is an integral part of what PTSD is, so what we are experiencing is a normal reaction to abuse, betrayal and other abnormal experiences.
AnnettePK and aint
I truly feel for you both. To suffer PTSD as an end result or consequence of leaving a horrid relationship must be devastating. I can’t even begin to imagine how you both cope with life yet here you both are bolstering and guiding all of us to a better life – true greatness you both have. The strength that drives you forward must be awesome – you are both awesome! An inspiration for us all that no matter what the consequences, life goes on and we must pay attention to the facts to move forward. Bless you both xxx
Ironic,
No greatness here, just raw human mistakes. Some of which I’ve learnt from.
My mom died when I was 14 and my parents had split when I was 8 due to my dad’s drunkenness, adultery and my mom’s narcissism. My whole life has been retarded. Ptsd is probably encoded in my genes.
I do know in 1988 was when I can recognize symptoms of it. So let’s hope in the last 26 yrs I’ve learnt something just becuz experience is the best teacher lol
Glad when my words help anyone 🙂
Dear Ain’t
Look at your family history. It takes very little imagining to know that you could have gone to “the dark side”. But you didn’t. You remain a child of God, a woman who retains her humanity, and your words are as gold to those who seek a friend and comfort. It’s just natural for you to be that kind of goodness.
Crap is crap. I’ve had the good fortune to be neglected in my childhood. Because I had a pedo father and a borderline mother. And the best outcome from those parents was to be ignored. God stepped in a time or two as well, my father had a life changing car accident when I was 10, and mom was so busy with being the center of attention that I grew into a teen before she tried to assert control over me. I was too old, too aware, too protective by then. So I do thank God for the little blessings.
You? Are a BIG blessing. You are peoples ray of light, a way to not feel forgotten on our sad days. I know I pray for you, not because you are sad or bad, but because you have been a blessing to me over and over.
Ain’t: Don’t Ever think you are anything less than a beautiful caring needed blessed comfort and advisor. Your writing is raw and beautiful and real. You connect. You matter. You have and will continue to be so worthy. It’s how God made you. In spite of your parents and your childhood.
Aint
I’m also glad when my words can help someone but its just sad that we tend to ignore them for ourselves….
Bless ya toots xxx
While i believe I have pstd, esp since the spath, i too suffered from that inability to focus too long or even stay too long in one place when my late husband died. Its so strange to me to not be able to even relax, without great effort, enough to sit for several hours and say watch a movie or several episodes of a seies. Just last nite I was doing this behavior. I had use of the tv for awhile, with netflix, and was watching Royal Pains episodes. I was driving the other ppl watching it too, nuts. I had to keep getting up and doing this and that. We ate a meal in front of it too and i got up extra too much even coping with that. I was cooking at same too, but still…
I am just way too used to working a little and then going off and coming back.
When my husband died, it was months and months before I could read a book. I am a VORACIOUS, very fast reader.
When I discovered I’d been betrayed in my marriage, I couldnt read either. It is a true grief to be betrayed by your lover.
Sometimes I wonder if ive had ptsd since 1988!
Aint
Have you had counseling for tge PTSD? Sorry if you’re repeating the info but I’ve got over 50 posts to get through so I’m reading 1 email at a time…
A few attempts at it. More informal therapy than anything. Never have found a professional that had a clue what they were doing. Plus my need to stay very hidden bout it. The spath would use the info against me.
I rly am thinking about buying Evans’ program…
Aint
Oh darl I’m so hearing ya! I’ve never found one that tells me anything I don’t already know or give me coping mechanisms – my spiritual beliefs saved me on more occasions than I’d care to acknowledge but my local Dr gave me the best advice I’d ever had and he’s keeping an eye on me with the occasional follow ups so I’m sticking with him. Love to you toots xxx
AnnettePK
everything you say is so
True. It’s good you had people
To talk to. I have tons of people around but I don’t want to bring up anything because they would all say “I told you from the beginning he was off”
I find writing down what I want to say to him jn an email whether I send it or not is very helpful. Although the last email when I was ranting on he claimed “I didn’t lie about anything to you, I may have misconstrued things a bit so I wouldn’t hurt you”
Do you know what he claims he didn’t lie about? Getting married…he told me up until three weeks ago he hate and dispised this woman and such nasty things about her he had me so
Convinced it was over. Then within a few hours of saying horrible stuff he told me he was leaving and he was getting married but not sure when and not sure he wanted to…
They are getting married next wkd…and she is pregnant
Who the f*** tells little white lies to protect someone, about them getting married? He did all sorts of this stuff through our three years together…
So..I prefer not to speak of how dumb a 60 year old man is to my friends and family when they will tell me “they knew it from beginning”
I prefer to keep my mouth shut and come on LF
That infuriating BS about ‘misconstrued so I wouldn’t hurt you’ is classic Psychopath, my ex P said stuff like that all the time. I’d point out that if not hurting me was a motivation of his, he wouldn’t do all the other stuff he does that he knows hurts me, and since when does not hurting someone make lying right, and the argument would go on forever (until I quit). The don’t learn because they are doing exactly what they want.
Your ex talking about another woman in any capacity, negative or positive, is inappropriate if you’re in a monogamous relationship. No matter what she did, if he’s talking nasty about someone it’s a reflection on him more than her. Also consider that anything he says could be a lie, not just the things you have already discovered are lies.
Yeah, I talked to people about the ex P who didn’t get it and I regretted it. I’m more selective who I say what to now.
I know the betrayal is so painful; it hurt me to think of the rotten stuff my ex P did and how he involved others.
TDS
Is it possible your profile settings are not set on private? Maybe anyone could look you up and send a friend request?
I tried responding on the proper post but couldn’t get on that so I’m
Posting here
Hanalei
I did the same. When I was discarded I occupied myself with finding out what he is doing, who he is seeing and so on. After I found out on financials that he was living the life of a “king” I decided its enough. I would rather read a good book, go for a nice walk, take a nap than looking her or him up on facebook. They deliberately posted cruise pictures, party pictures and so on. The desire to keep track with him slowly faded. For some reason it became boring and old for me. I focused more on myself. Did things that made me happy.
I think with time wounds heal and we can go on. Will I ever forget what he did to me ? Absolutely not but I will not let it interfere with my life anymore. That’s why the no contact is my foundation for sanity and peace. Any communication with him would be a devastating set back for me. 391 days and counting.
kaya, I think selling the house and moving into this “interim” rental is just keeping me in a weird limbo.
My thoughts of him are just…him. He’s just there. Not any memories, good or bad, just that he’s there. I can’t explain it. I don’t want anything to do with him (just the opposite). It might be that I’m back in the state where we were together and there are memories here, familiar places. It might be that my home state is no longer home.
I need to focus on moving forward, bringing good people and activity into my life. Remembering what makes ME happy.
Hanalei moon
My grandfather once told me years ago “the most healing thing in our bodies and life is our brain/mind”
I sometimes try to keep that saying close by because though it seems impossible, it is possible. I just need to get there.
I like your grandfather’s wisdom!
Ironic, Whatever one’s specific beliefs are, I found such accurate descriptions of spaths and best understanding of their motives and the pain and harm they cause others, in the Bible. It was a comfort to me and it increased my faith in the Bible as the Word of God. I also like the ‘happy ending’ in the theology I believe.
Sashastrong
That’s one part that bothers me also. Most of my friends are married with families. I still have my son at home which is a tremendous help. But soon he will graduate from college, well in 2 years, and he will have his “own” life.
I am really not interested in what the ex does now. Because there is no reason for it. For what ? I read that he cannot remain in your life, no matter what. Luckily it don’t have minor children. I sure would not know what to do in thAt situation. Occasionally we still get little texts or emails from the ex. One said “my heart is broke”. Gee. Wine to the club. We just ignore his pathetic crap, sometimes we laugh about it. He is living in his minion world and I don’t want to be a part of this fantasy world. He chose this path and that’s where he will remain.
Kaya,
I’d have to say that I’m not really interested in what he’s doing, because he’s just a low life loser feeding off others, for me, it’s more of the fear of what revenge he’s plotting against me, just a couple months ago is when he said he’s coming after me, so I never know? It’s hard to explain, it’s a difficult way to live though.
Ironic
You see how one tracked my mind is? I thought the words were a song to how we felt about these wackos
I think it will take a long time to get out of the rut of the routine I had because he occupied a lot of my day…it doesn’t seem to get better even though I try to convince myself of him being toxic…especially now I know he’s marrying next wkd I keep asking myself how and why up until a cpl weeks ago he acted as though he despises
Her. I would post some his messages about her to me but its not a nice thing to do to her
Since she knows nothing of me and what’s going on. Poor poor young girl
Haha I thought that but I totally understand 😉
I think you might grow to thank your lucky stars she won him, one day. I have so much evidence that I could send to the 2 girls my ex spath stated tuning within a day of me leaving, but I won’t. One of them had an affair with him for 7 years until she found out he was married so she already knows what he’s like. The other is a policewoman and the police force has a reputation of being players so she deserves him too. Thank god he isn’t mine!
Here are the requirements for a cheater:
1. One must forget his own wife.
2. He must entertain extended thoughts about another woman.
3. If the woman is married, he must ignore that fact, and despise her husband.
4. He must make some advances toward the woman.
5. He must be creative in hiding what he has done.
6. He must arrange for a place of meeting.
7. He must blot all consciousness of God from his mind.
8. He must immerse himself in the “now”, with every thought of eternity being blotted out.
9. He must make his own will the primary will
10. He must make his own person the primary person.
11.If he is a minister, he must forget his accountability to God.
12. He must remove every thought of the church and its reputation.
13. If he has children, he must blot them from his mind.
14. If the woman he desires has children, he must blot them from his mind.
15. He must forget the pledge he made when he married, thereby nullifying the covenant with his wife.
16. Now he must pretend that he is godly.
17. New he must pretend that he has not sinned.
18. New he must pretend that he loves God.
19. He must consider his own will to be more preeminent that the will of God.
20. He must forget why Jesus died.
Who would want to have a husband/boyfriend/partner who meets all these criteria…..??
Excellent criteria test but 2 points I would study out more:
15. A covenant is not nullified by the action of either party. That’s a contract. That’s how the state looks at marriage, a simple contractual relationship. But it’s not how God does.
2. You don’t need extended thoughts. Jesus said when you hate your brother its as tho you have murdered him. If you lust after a woman its as if you’ve committed adultery. Once and it’s done. Of course, we all have certain emotions such as coveting or lust that come up suddenly when we’re exposed to something in the environment. If we linger tho…then we’ve entered into it. Feeling something and living there, even briefly, are two different things. Lingering in lust=the act of lust. We have to guard our eyes and ears & think on pure things; telling the devil to flee immediately or telling ourselves “soul, Sit Down!” (I love Joyce Meyers lol)
I think that in order to carry out the physical act, one does need the extended thoughts. It is lingering on the thoughts that render thoughts adultery. Porn is adultery. I don’t think noticing an attractive woman and then willfully turning one’s thoughts away is spiritual adultery. I recognize there are other views.
I don’t think hating someone is a fleeting thought of anger; hate is dwelling on hostile thoughts and wanting harm for another. Again, there are other views.
If one person breaks a commitment or covenant he is nullifying his own part of it, and my understanding of scripture is that adultery does release the other spouse from a marriage. Given this understanding the adulterous spouse is risking his marriage because his spouse has the right not to take him back or she can take him back (if he chooses to ask to return to the marriage). Perhaps Kaya understands it that way also. I recall you look at it differently, so that a spouse can commit adultery and return to his spouse later if he chooses?
Perhaps in the list ‘extended thoughts’ is meant the same as ‘lingering thoughts’
Thank you for sharing this. Most points apply to porn use as well as cheating with a live person.
Here are the requirements for a cheater:
1. One must forget his own wife.
2. He must entertain extended thoughts about another woman.
3. If the woman is married, he must ignore that fact, and despise her husband.
4. He must make some advances toward the woman.
5. He must be creative in hiding what he has done.
6. He must arrange for a place of meeting.
7. He must blot all consciousness of God from his mind.
8. He must immerse himself in the “now”, with every thought of eternity being blotted out.
9. He must make his own will the primary will
10. He must make his own person the primary person.
11.If he is a minister, he must forget his accountability to God.
12. He must remove every thought of the church and its reputation.
13. If he has children, he must blot them from his mind.
14. If the woman he desires has children, he must blot them from his mind.
15. He must forget the pledge he made when he married, thereby nullifying the covenant with his wife.
16. Now he must pretend that he is godly.
17. Now he must pretend that he has not sinned.
18. Now he must pretend that he loves God.
19. He must consider his own will to be more preeminent that the will of God.
20. He must forget why Jesus died.
Who would want to have a husband/boyfriend/partner who meets all these criteria…..??
there you are kaya48, speaking truth.
that “will” thing, it’s a b*. freewill, without God to guide… hmmm. when it comes down to the nitty: that’s. how. evil. works.
Kaya,
Awesome list! Ones heart truly has to be dark to commit adultery. And each additional time they add another notch on their belt, the dive further down the dark hole where evil consumes their soul.