UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
NotWhatHeSaidofMe, I relate heavily to that feeling of the loss of self. I’m sure the spath in my life caught a whiff of my shaky sense of self immediately. I had no relationship with him and I have no idea what he wanted of me. At first, I think it was sexual favors, then as he got himself in more and more trouble and eventually got caught, he tried to keep me ensnared in case he needed someone to defend his “character.” OMG, I was so messed up, I basically told him I would support him, knowing from the moment I met him that he was a total jerk. I knew that he was messing around with all kinds of women, yet I allowed myself to see that as OK. Plus he was married with a child! And so was I!! Thankfully still am. Somehow I told myself that for the first time in my life, I’m going to enjoy this feeling, this support and admiration, even though it’s not going anywhere. Before I knew it, I was smitten. With what? With who? He was so absent in every way, you could say he was almost a hallucination, yet he haunted my dreams (the only dream I recall in the last decade was one I had about him. 3 years ago and it’s as fresh in my mind as it was when I was dreaming it)! He invaded my sub-conscious! I believe I still cling to those days because I am a worrier and thinking about him has always been and still is a total escape from reality. That is NOT good. I am on a mission to figure out other places to go in my head that are as distracting and riveting, the block out all else.
I am also getting older, well, aren’t we all, but truly, I am way out of my 40’s (he was 12 years younger) and I’m very frightened about the future. Aging scares me, as does death. So, having him in my life, pathetic and sick as it was, made me feel young again, I even looked younger! Hope replaced depression. So, I’ve got to contend with that reality once again.
I love the path you’ve created to get back to being you. I can tell from your post that you are a lovely, charismatic, caring individual. I wish you all the best.
Looking forward to watching the video.
still reeling,
I don’t believe others who try to say there’s a lesson to learn from the disordered. I believe I can learn those same lessons from a loving person, and without damage to my soul. Your post stands out to me, that in your marriage, you needed the feeling of support and admiration that you weren’t getting, and in those moments, it fed your soul in a way that was missing for you.
That’s what sociopaths do, that’s how they hook us, they offer to fill what is missing in our lives. But in reality, they only IMPLY that they can offer that, because they above all, since they are missing that part of a heart, can not offer that.
I have a mind trick that I do to myself. For the dream that I lost, I imagine a BIGGER dream, and when I wake up from a nightmare, I try to fall back asleep with that BIGGER dream replacing the bad thoughts. In other words, I don’t try to stop the thoughts, I try to replace them with BIGGER. I had to make these thoughts tangent, so I went to the best hotel and had a cup of tea, just to have the memory of being in a fine luxury environment. I did the same about clothes. I can’t afford Nordstroms, but I can afford to try on VERY nice clothes, FEEL how they feel and look on me. I go to my local “little Italy” and even though I can’t afford to eat there, I will order a coffee and FEEL how the place pampers me. I wrote out a description of BIGGER dreams, I wrote about the people I saw in those luxury places, how they moved, spoke, etc.
Does all this sound strange? Mebbie. But after years of being unwanted and rejected and shamed and humiliated, sitting in luxury and being treated with dignity is BIGGER than what he promised, BIGGER that what he implied I’d receive, implying if only I “got it right” with him. He’s a LIAR. Screwtape.
NotWhatHeSaidofMe, I like your approach. Not strange at all.
One time after a mini-discard, my ex took me to an outdoor concert by my favorite artist. It was in a beautiful setting (a winery) and a beautiful night. I knew he was trying to suck me back in, but it was nice to be with him again (gag). He whispered in my ear – see how good it is to be with me? You’d NEVER get to do something like this if you weren’t with me.
Cue the sad trombone.
I do things similar to what you are doing. It keeps us in practice, I think. It reminds us that we are among the living and we still can belong. It reminds us that we deserve it.
Not, you are correct about my marriage. I am not blaming my husband, he does his best. Won’t go out of his comfort zone, (therapy, giving compliments, support, etc). I understand him though and why he is like he is. He has told me that he would never marry again because it’s too much work. After 25 yrs of marriage, to hear that reinforced to me what a loser I am. We have one daughter. I love her dearly, she’s almost 25 but she is cold, not with friends or her BF, but with me. We were so close for 12 years, then since she became a teenager and I lost her. I’m not a phone person so I rarely call her (she lives a few states away now) but keep in touch w/facebook and email. She calls us when she wants to talk. She’s here now in fact and I could cry because unless I keep up the convo, she asks no questions, has no interest. I understand this intellectually but it hurts. My brother (I have only one sib) is older and much more successful in all areas of life. He is a wonderful person and I adore him, but he’s so distant. We love each other but make no effort to get together. They are in a whole different socio-economic world. I feel VERY alone. I have a few friends but feel like I just don’t have anything to contribute any longer.
My work has always been my life. When I was laid off in ’10 (age discrim) I thought I would die. My purpose was gone.
I found a job immediately and it was a nightmare. Next job was where I met the path. I didn’t feel as needy then as I do now but I kind of numb. I guess he sensed, as you said, my emptiness.
I also have an issue with love and hurt. To me they are one and the same due to my childhood. Perfect fertile ground for the path and also part of the reason why I still think about him. It hurts good. As well, I hate and detest unfinished anything and though I understand there was never anything TO finish, I can’t close the book entirely.
I’m not sure if luxuriating would help me. I’m really caught up in a lot of fear right now and wondering if I’ll ever get to peace. It’s been my goal for as long as I can remember. It’s not him that I want, it’s the longing for validation and love that I am unable to give myself. I feel that I’ve let my husband and daughter down and don’t deserve their love. Marriage and parenthood are not for everyone. I haven’t done a good job. Some good things but mostly I think I’m too selfish and frightened. I’m older than most of my daughter’s friends’ moms but I feel like their child because I’m so fearful and unable to do the things they do (anxiety and panic disorder plague me when I travel or am triggered). So I’m a mess and will die a mess.
I’m sorry to go all maudlin here. I am very glad that you’ve found a way to treat yourself well. Whatever it takes, Not, whatever it takes. Thank you for sharing with me.
Just thought I’d throw this out there……..WE are still there. That’s what I believe. I used to have a balanced sense of my own self, slightly insecure about my body but whatever…….What he did was build me up so much with false compliments (flattery) that it took me to the top of the mountain in the way I felt about myself physically which also opened me up around him sexually (to please him mind you). I’m sure this is a tactic to get a woman to want to please you, to make her feel like she is all that and a bag of condoms, “in between the sheets”?
Now, to think back on how please I was to know that I was pleasing to him, I know it was all manipulative BS? Ouch.
Covert emotional manipulation tactics are underhanded methods of control. Emotional manipulation methodically wears down your self worth and self confidence, and damages your trust in your own perceptions. It can make you unwittingly compromise your personal values, which leads to a loss of self-respect and a warped self concept. With your defenses weakened or completely disarmed in this manner, you are left even more vulnerable to further manipulation.
http://psychopathsandlove.com/covert-emotional-manipulation-tactics/
what I’m trying to say is that I wonder if why we feel so bad now (many reasons of course) is because we were taken so high by them initially. Taken to an unrealistic place and it felt so good. Like someone who’s only eaten fruit being given sugary, gooie cakes and cookies. We are back to being fruit eaters but REALLY liked the treats! I’m not wording this right. I just see anything we fell in love with them over (all false of course) as being a drug we were given and was used to manipulate us.
dorothy2, what you are saying makes complete sense to me. I had never been ashamed of my body and always figured that anyone who liked me with my clothes on would be fine with how I looked with them off, and it worked that way.
My ex was over the top with compliments too and in retrospect it was all to get a desired response from me. By the end of the relationship, I avoided being naked in front of him and at this point, can’t see ever gleefully taking my clothes off in front of a man again. Maybe someone will come along who changes that for me, but in the meantime, it makes me very sad to feel this way.
I was content with my life before my ex came into it. He upped the ante with over the top trips, over the top places for cocktails, over the top clothes (everything about him was over the top). He even convinced me that my next new car HAD to be a model that approached $100k. The crazy thing is that all of this became the norm for me. I had a wake up call about a year after the final discard when I was sitting worrying about how after losing all my savings I was ever going to manage a new car when all I could consider were models in that $100k price range. I was shocked to see that I was still thinking that way – that was how effective his control was.
I compromised my personal values almost daily with him. Most of the time I didn’t even realize it.
Meanwhile, I am still driving my beat up old car. At this point, it’s kind of fun to see how long it will go.
HanaleiMoon, Well I was self conscious about my body esp since I was over 50 and he was 6 years younger then I. But he just ALWAYS made such a point of telling me how pretty, sexy, this and that and this and that……At the time I just thought he was pleased with me and when I complimented him back I really meant what I said…not in a manipulative way, you know? THAT is what is so painful to swallow?!? I really meant it when I told him he was sexy, I was attracted to him, he was smart,,,,,,,his flattery was BS! If he meant a fraction of the things he told me he felt there is no way in Hell we would be apart now. So it’s humiliating to me now to know what I know about him and to know that it was all BS for and from him and it was equally, I’m sure, entertaining to him to watch the Dorothy Show. BLACH!!
dorothy2, I was 49 when I met mine (I am now 59). He was the same age, but at times (usually when he had someone else), he was very fit.
Mine aggressively complimented my body for years, and then began a campaign for me to bring another woman into the relationship (I’ve written about it briefly here). He was always telling me that other women were “checking me out” and wishing they could have sex with me. I thought this was all pretty ridiculous and just a little fantasy he was having, but now I know it was all not so subtle mind control.
I know what you mean how hurtful and humiliating it is. I loved this man and was sincere in my compliments to him even when at one point he gained a lot of weight and could barely tie his shoes. When he discarded me for the final time, he used my failure to bring another woman into the relationship as one of his many reasons.
I have come to accept that nothing he said in the 7 years we were together was honest.
dorothy2
I don’t think the place was unrealistic. It just was unrealistic with THEM, because they knew the bait that is NORMAL and exists in ALL NORMAL caring people, but they were incapable of the REAL thing, so they also served up a big slice of EMPTY.
ps Kinda flustrating not being able to edit! I can’t fix the errors of my free flow thinking! LOL!
I don’t know what has happened to the edit button either!
The only reason I say that “the place” was unrealistic is that it was created from manipulation, flattery rather than compliments and didn’t come from the heart.
Not just a slice of empty, the whole cake! Ugh! Blah! indigestion again. I wish I could spit it back in his face, him and his whole tribe.
“I wonder if why we feel so bad now is because we were taken so high by them initially. Taken to an unrealistic place and it felt so good.”
This is so true Dorothy. So very, very true. I knew I wasn’t really being taken anywhere and he was full of crap. Believe me, I knew, but the little bit he gave did feel so good, so validating, so energizing and it lit me up for the first time in so long. Since I have little self-respect, it was easy for me to jump right in there and let him act all high on me one day, then diss me the next. He was always “sorry.”
Pathetically, he offered me NOTHING but lies and weird, bizarre insights into his private life, then acted all covert and guarded. It was the perfect storm as they say. Worked for me. And unfortunately, still is, to a degree. I still “go there” to escape. Make up scenarios in my head that I know would freak me out in real life. There is no winning.
Hugs Still reeling……and everyone really. Warm, healing hugs to all.
in spite of all the discord, all the troubles, conflict, etc, etc, etc……HONESTLY, I’ve never been happier in my life. I was so in love and he knew it. ” I love you Spathtard”. “I know you do honey and it feels wonderful. I love you too Sweetheart”. If that exchange took place once, it took place 100 times and more. of course he also told me in one of his Spath snits that I only thought I loved him and that I didn’t really love him. Probably a “tell” because he KNEW that I didn’t even KNOW who he really was. It was one of the times I was actually able to pin him down and shut his f’ing lying face up though. “That’s interesting Spathtard……..because I can’t even count how many times you have told me that you knew that I loved you and it felt wonderful. So which is it?? You were either lying when you said it then or you are lying now”……..and off we went on a new topic, spun around on her heals. dazed and confused. ASSHAT!
I would like to throw this out there……..I’m wondering SO MUCH, if any of Spathtard’s ex’s are on this site. What I’m wondering is if there would be some way to have some sort of Spath “registry” in a sense (for those interested of course and feel safe to do so). Just my initial idea would be initials and possibly state initials but I think the state initials is too revealing. Any ideas or input? It probably is a no or I’m thinking it would have already been done.
In my fantasy, I’d like to rent a series of billboards along the freeway that say, simply, XXXX XXXXXX IS A PSYCHOPATH.
LOLOL!! Count me in!! After I figured out that he was a Spath and the whole frigging thing was a joke at my expense I wanted to spray paint PSYCHOPATH
RAPIST
12 X 17 pieces of cardboard and nail them to phone poles down the road he has to leave and come home by. Like a LOT of them. they would have to stay there until he or someone else took them down. O nice big one right where he pulls out onto the main road!
HanaleiMoon, ok, now that is weird! Spathtard’s actual name has the same # of letters and you typed……. XXXX XXXXXX !
Yikes that’s too weird! At first, I typed the actual number of letters in MY ex’s name and thought it was too much info so changed it. I a bit paranoid!
Dorothy and Hana-
You can post the information of your spath to the growing list at http://www.CADalert.blogspot.com. Look for the post, Stop a CAD In Their Tracks.
That’said what it’says there for.
Joyce
Sorry for the disjointed typos on my last post. My technology is being weird and not allowing corrections.
Joyce
NoContact, I can’t attach my reply to your comment so I’m putting it here. Of COURSE it’s not you!
You know what you’ve been through, and the reality of the situation. You know what your mental status is, and you know if your actions and feelings are appropriate for the circumstances.
I think what she’s saying is hurtful and not helping you a bit. At the very least, it says she doesn’t get it”AT ALL. My very good therapist would say that it is time to evaluate things and it may be time to give yourself a little distance from her, and in the future, maybe keep the conversation away from this topic.
When someone makes you feel that you’re being “culled from the herd” (one of my favorite expressions by the way), it’s bad. Get away from bad, even for a short time. We’re already in vulnerable positions, the last thing we need is friends and family who make us doubt and second guess ourselves.
I myself am very poor at setting boundaries once they have already been crossed, so I tend to distance myself completely. But these are not family members who love me.
Trust in yourself and what you know. Although it is lonely, keep your own counsel if you can.
I found a quote recently that I really identified with – if you want to get a laugh at my expense, go ahead, it’s from a real housewife of orange county – here it is:
When moving forward, it’s ok to admit that we’ve struggled with something. We all have struggles”it’s a part of life. But be careful – every helping hand isn’t always there to help. Some people will pretend to care just so they can get a better seat to watch your struggle – but that show is OVER.
Now, I’m not saying this applies to your sister, but it sure applies to some “friends” in my life. Although I want friends, sounding boards, companions, I’m not handing out front row seats to my struggle anymore.
You are never butting in here. What I know of your situation you’ve shared here, you are acting appropriately. Trying to get him in trouble? Pfffffft.
Dear Hanalei and Not, I truly appreciate leaning on your shoulders today! and totally think you’ve hit the nail on the head: Sister has been jealous of me forever, but especially since I married 30+ years ago. She would never in a zillion years have dated my guys (all beneath her) but was still jealous when I got the husband, house and kids while she stayed single.
Since we do not “split” but perceive people as multi-dimensional, we can appreciate that she feels both ways: anguished as my older sister — smugly satisfied as my lifelong rival.
So your advice is spot-on and thank you for it!! — I don’t discuss the issues with her.
Her agenda is so plainly pro-X that I’ve suggested she marry him herself if she thinks she understands him so well (while secretly I’m thinking, honey you would not last a single round with that beast so I would never actually let you into the ring with it, AS IF). She argues with me that diplomacy is ALWAYS the right way, it’s NOT. Says forgiveness and love will resolve All, THEY DON’T. Please believe me: if love and respect for the “devil’s advocate” could resolve this, I’d have cured the problem!! — like, 29 years ago. Does she think I’m too selfish, stupid or narrow-minded to have given him EVERY benefit of the doubt? somehow my bled-out Self is invisible to her, maybe I should be glad.
Around two years ago (roughly a year after the final discard), I reached a point where I knew I needed to distance myself from a couple of friends. Only one (my ex’s sister) took this quietly, I think she was relieved to be let go. The others (the toxic ones) attacked me in their own unique ways. It was quite hurtful, but I wasn’t surprised, since my therapist had warned me that when you start to get healthy and set boundaries with people, you are changing the rules and they get really pissed. They sure do. Yikes!
I was much better on my own until recently when the dynamic changed with the friend I just distanced myself from. I told her honestly that I needed to take a break from all negativity, for my own good. She got the last word by leaving me a voice mail telling me she was sorry she had given her opinions. Not a word about pushing me to the point of hysterical crying, or bringing up things that were long gone. I didn’t want to clean house again, but I knew it was for the best.
The only people who are in my life now are recent friends who have no vested interest in watching me self destruct for the fun of it. I am sure there will be more good people as time goes on.
I am looking forward to the day when these people who have hurt me don’t cross my mind anymore. I was a true friend to them. They chose to kick me when I was down.
HanaleiMoon
You’ve given me food for thought about friendship:
I hope I am aware of when my opinion is given more value than the feelings of my friend. That’s a very self absorbed person to think only of her perspective.
Have I been too opinionated? I’m sure I have because I am a person who speaks her opinion. But in my defense, I do know that it is merely my opinion and no more/no less valid than anothers. And if my friend was crying hysterically, I KNOW that I wouldn’t be asserting my opinion but rather be focused on my friend’s grief.
Maybe some of this friend stuff is from my younger years, where I didn’t discern friendship but took on all those who wanted to “friend” me. Now… I only have a few years left to live and I don’t want to waste my time with people who have no substance or heart.
The time that my friend said she was “merely playing devil’s advocate”, I was crying hysterically and sobbing that I could not get heard even by her… and she was insisting I consider the perspective of my abuser. I musta had a kickme sign on that day!
I do consider myself a good friend. I’m the one who will get up at 2am and go pick up a friend stranded on the freeway. I am the shoulder to cry on, a cup of tea and a biscuit. But I’ve also been the one dumped by so called friends because I wasn’t as fun as the sociopath.
And I will say, now that I am discerning, the quality of my friends have evolved to be the same as ME.
Part of the problem is that empathy or not……people who have never been through this just can NOT fathom the nature of the reality of these situations. If I start talking about it to someone? Most people get this wide eyed kind of freaked out worried I’ve spilled my teacup look on their face. Or if I talk to someone I haven’t talked to in a while about it, who may have been at least kind enough to try to understand,,,,,they now cop the attitude that I should have already moved on and been over this. I’ve really had to drop out of several semi- friendships, for now, because I know where their heads and expectations are and it’s not where I am, thats for sure! I’m NOT done purging his slime from the depths of my heart!
I’m not saying this apples to your situation but I can feel your pain over this. FInding people who understand and can sympathize is really hard when you have been through something like this.
HUGS!
NotWhatHeSaidofMe, I am sure I have hurt others with my opinions over the years too”none of us are perfect.
But to poke and prod a person, knowing they are facing significant challenges, to the point where they freak out”that is not a friend.
I’m not getting any younger, and I’d like to have people in my life. I’m not sure how to make that happen.
Many people call what are acquaintances friends. Maybe that is what I had, and mistook them for something more. I do now have two friends who would pick me up if I was stranded on the freeway, and I consider myself lucky.
At this point, I am past needing to talk about it or rehash it (I have here for that). I know no one who hasn’t been through it can understand. And I don’t want this drama to define me. But I would like to have people who care about me – who want to spend time with me, make plans to do things together.
That last friend that I’ve distanced myself from? She said over and over some very hurtful things”things that she should have never said. I couldn’t even bring myself to type them out here. After a few weeks of no contact with her, and a little perspective, I see that I should have stopped her the first time she said it because it sickened me then. Another lesson in setting boundaries.
Feeling alone is one of my biggest challenges at this point. I hope that will change, but I need to prepare myself in case it doesn’t.
I agree, most people just don’t get it. Just today someone said to my son and I “well he is still your dad”. No, they don’t know what evil is. They don’t know what we had to go through, how we were thrown away like your weekly trash, how my son had to testify in court against his so called “dad”. It takes too long to explain so we just ignore comments like that.
Most of my friends know how evil my ex was. The ones that defend him are not my friends anymore. Just like that.
“Just today someone said to my son and I “well he is still your dad”. No, they don’t know what evil is.”
Way more than succeeding in getting one of those little swimmers into the egg. How much effort did THAT take?
Way more effort involved in being a dad than getting one of those little swimmers into the egg………
sorry!
dorothy2, I actually thought it took an awful LOT of effort! unfortunately it was all mine. 🙂
🙂
Does anyone have any info on filing a request with the courts to shield protective order records? Kind of off the wall, but I was curious if anyone knew anything about this topic? Thanks for any insight, I really appreciate!
sashastrong, it’s a legal process that is different in every state. You might try googling the topic, as a surprising amount of info is available online, however make sure you are looking at your state’s info or articles that address the topic generically.
or call the State Attorney General’s office.
Yes, I did try to google, but I don’t understand why someone would want the records sealed? For what purpose? Everything was dismissed/expunged. I have to remember there is always a motive behind things he does, seriously.
Greetings all – it’s been a while since I have popped in (all due to court madness and insanity from the Spath, which is a discussion in and of itself) but I wanted to chime in.
Although I am an open person and have no issues sharing the who, what, where, when and why of me, I really have closed the doors with regard to sharing my experience with this whacko in order to protect myself. I learned the lesson the hard way – several months ago I sent a “conversation” message to some of my oldest and closest friends on FB and though many responded, two of them suspiciously didn’t. I found it odd, so I have kept my mouth shut, ostensibly keeping my thoughts and activities off FB. I believe there are spies. Are there for sure? I don’t know, but trust me when I say that I changed my settings with regard to how much most people see. And the other two have yet to ask me how I am doing, which still has my hackles up.
Even with that, my closest circle (about 3 people) has, at times, royally pissed me off with regard to their opinion about my spath, his feelings for me, ad nauseum. I have grown tired of explaining the depth of his lunacy to one of them (one of them doesn’t “get into it” with me, while I have set some boundaries with the 3rd), as she thinks she is right 1,000,000% of the time and knows everything. I just let it go – I have too much other stress to worry about.
Beyond that, you will be pleased to know that I am fighting tooth and nail in this case. I am going broke fast but you know what? It’s worth every goddamn second for me, even if I am exhausted and drained.
Your,
Roar
Roar, glad to hear you’re fighting and feeling good about it!
Even though my FB is private except to my friends, I rarely post anything anymore and haven’t updated my location since I moved. I’ve had several odd friend requests in the past couple of months from people who seem legit (like same high school or home town) but I don’t know and have no mutual friends (and suspiciously, have few friends, like the profile was just created)”delete! I have maintained my profile on Linkedin since I’m job searching and have valuable contacts but have been vague about my location. I’ve had several people look at my profile lately who elected to remain anonymous”suspicious! I also got a random email via Linkedin from a woman I worked with years ago, wasn’t close to and hadn’t kept in contact with and she asked that I call her to “catch up”. She knows my ex and lives in the same area he does. Delete! I hate being so suspicious. Maybe I’m far from his mind, but based on what I know about him, there’s a fair chance he’s trying to keep tabs on me. Since the shared house sold in February, his power was stripped from him.
I’ll say it again, being in our shoes can be a very lonesome road. I’m an open book person too, and it’s really turned out for me that anyone who knew me before the final discard won’t be carried forward into the future. I fought it, made excuses for people and got sick of defending myself and my actions. I am tired of being hurt by people I trusted. The few new friends I made after the discard know the broad brush that I was treated horribly by him and abandoned in dire straights, but moving forward, all I will say is that I had a long term relationship end. Everyone can understand and accept that.
It seems the unexpected challenges keep popping up, for me anyway.
Roar
I am glad to hear you are standing strong and fighting for yourself. That’s what I did. I never gave up in court proceedings. I fought him on everything and in the end I was the “winner”. He totally underestimated me. He thought he was able to manipulate and control. But as soon as I got away from his “spell” it was just the opposite. I became his biggest enemy and I was in control. Never give up and remain the strongest person you can be. There is no place for emotions and feelings in court. It’s business. And nothing else. Good luck to you.
Hi, All
i was being away for long as i was sorting my life after sociopath.. well update is he is still living with this young guy..
but yes i have moved on now i am a better person working my life up. been so blessed that there are some people who do care and love me for real. now I am a healer and Master. plus i work as a coach and mentor as well.. soon i am going to learn more in to spiritual path and i am already helping alot of people to move on in their lives.. i have gone far though find hard to trust people but it does not mean i will never one day i will learn to trust and will find the love in my life and i am waiting for the moments to come.
blessings to all xx
NotWhatHeSaidofMe got me started on TED talks the other day and last night I watched a talk on domestic violence. I have a story to tell. I’ve never told anyone, not even my therapist (probably not good, but I had so many immediate problems getting through each week). This will be long so thank you in advance if you read it all.
In September of 2008, the start of Labor Day weekend to be exact, my ex hit me”repeatedly. I don’t know if it was 10 times or 20, but it was a LOT. It was the first, and last time he ever did it.
We had been dreaming and planning about our move to the new state. About buying or building a home. We were leaving on a week long trip to go there, had appointments scheduled with realtors and builders, and it was an exciting time. We were so (I thought) happy and taking the first concrete step toward our future. It had been a tough summer – a beloved pet of mine had died, and there had been evidence of his cheating. But things seemed to be straightening out.
We planned to leave from his house early in the morning and I arrived the prior afternoon. He seemed, off somehow, standoffish. Not himself. We went out for sushi for dinner and his mood changed for the worse”he was snappy, angry at me for nothing that I could see. Dinner was tense. As we walked across the parking lot to the car, I asked what was wrong. I don’t know what his reply was, all I remember is that the last sentence he said was “screw you”. It was a short drive back to his house and I could feel him seething. Nothing had happened to cause this.
He went into his bedroom and I asked again what was wrong. Again, I don’t remember what exactly he said, but he had decided he didn’t want to go on the trip, didn’t want to pursue the move, didn’t want anything with me. I couldn’t understand what had happened, and of course, I tried to make it right”said everything I could. He attacked me verbally, outlining all my shortcomings and failures and I was sobbing. I don’t remember how it happened, but he pointed to the floor and told me to get on my knees in front of him. I did what I was told. He closed the bedroom door (his daughter was in the house), came back, and started slapping me in the face, first one side then the other, HARD, back and forth. He made sure I was looking at his crotch, so I could see his erection. I had never been touched violently in my life and I was incapacitated. I took it. With each slap, I thought this, like a mantra: “I am an educated woman. I am a professional. I am intelligent. I am strong. And I am letting a man hit me.” At some point, I got afraid that he was going to permanently damage my neck due to whiplash. I was sobbing uncontrollably, but silently, because I didn’t want his daughter to hear what was going on.
Finally, he stopped, and I fell to the floor in a fetal position, sobbing, rocking. He nudged me with his toe and said – I’m stopping now because you can’t handle this”if I continue, you will be no good to me or anyone else.
I don’t remember anything else that night. I didn’t leave. I slept next to him in the bed. In the morning, he said nothing about going, instead, was working and laughing with his daughter in the back yard like I wasn’t there. Finally, sometime after noon, he said he would go. We loaded the car and left.
He alternated being silent or cruel to me when we were alone. He acted cheery and normal in public. Nothing was said about what had happened. We stopped for something to eat and when I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror, my face was swollen up like a football. I will never forget it.
The trip was a nightmare. He was unrelentingly cruel to me for the entire time. We had my car and I didn’t drive away. He refused to keep our appointments and I had to call and cancel them. He was unrelentingly cruel to me the entire drive home, except when we were in public. Then, he smiled, asked me for advice about issues at work.
I have never been so stressed in my life. I thought I was going to have a stroke.
When we got to his house, he brought his stuff in from my car and literally shoved me out the front door, palm on my back. He snapped the lock shut behind me. No words, no explanation.
That mini-discard lasted until Thanksgiving weekend. By that time, I had gotten used to him being out of my life. Then, he arrived at my door on Thanksgiving morning, contrite and he said “missing me so much”.
I had been brainwashed. I was addicted. I let him in.
Less than three years (and much more misery) later, we bought our dream home together and less than three months after that, he discarded me for the final time, leaving my whole life in shambles. I still haven’t got it straightened out.
This happened to me. Thank you for the opportunity to share.
Dearest HanaleiMoon
What he did was so incredibly horrible. You were in grave danger when he beat you that day. Just one hit in a wrong spot could have snapped your neck. You were fortunate to have survived and I believe you behaved in survival mode after that, starting with being in shock. That kind of beating would have put your body into emotional and physical shock. He wasn’t just jerky or cruel or abusive, he was sadistic. He physically controlled you, put you in a vulnerable position, and experienced EXTREME satisfaction in directly humiliating and harming you. It was something he though about and planned, probably discussed with another, researched so he’d know what to do and how he could be away with it. He was the epitome of EVIL. (no one can argue with “no remorse, no conscience”.)
This next sentence is just my opinion but based on my experience with my ex husband:
I believe your ex “punished” you for his lost opportunity to spend the holiday weekend with some other woman. And when the affair waned and he didn’t have a place to be for Thanksgiving holiday, he came back to suck up and siphon off your nurturances.
While we all share similar experiences, the actual life with a disordered person is “personalized” to who we and what their specific disturbances that are inside them. Some people are “addicted” to their abuser, some are Stockholm syndrome, some are manipulated into being with them, the possibilities are specific to how a disordered person stalks and traps their prey. But one thing is the same: we all stay too long, give them too many chances, don’t give ourselves the honor and respect we deserve, and we get to a place where we know things are “not right” and we come out of it stunned and trying to figure it out.
I think you have not shared this with your therapist because the trauma was so huge, you did not feel safe to do so. It took time and healing for you to be in a place where you could even share what happened to you. I think it’s one of those key pieces in your recovery. I hope you now feel able to share with your therapist, you need to resolve this devastating trauma. It’s a core event that shaped your life and I am sickened to think that you are living with some wrong belief that binds you and keeps you from being fully free.
Thank you for sharing. Please excuse me for sharing my response:
But I tell you that I wish I could just beat the holy fn He double toothpicks out of your ex for EVER daring to place his hands on you in such a manner. I want everyone to know what a scumbag he is and how he was so sure of getting away with such a despicable act that he did this in a house when his daughter was present. I don’t know if you have any contact with his daughter, but I am CERTAIN that she knew when that door closed that you were going to be abused. I am certain that he’s done this to others. He acted out a fn fantasy of abuse. Depraved, focused on controlling and draining the soul and spirit out of his vulnerable trusting compassion caring woman. He is the epitome, the very definition, of evil.
While some people say there is no hell, THIS is who is it for. At the least, I hope for purgatory for him, so he can sit there for half of eternity and feel ALL of what he did to others, and then, I then pray for him to become fully conscious of what heaven is like so he knows what price he paid to do that act of submissive sadistic S&M.
I thank you, really really thank you for sharing this. I see the lesson in it for myself. You have helped me to realize the rage in me stemming from my own near murder, the rage I must resolve, so that I don’t take it with me in the afterlife. Because it’s a rage that does not belong in heaven, and I must resolve here and NOW, so that I don’t end up in purgatory myself (or worse, in hell with my ex husband.)
Dearest HanaleiMoon,
May God’s Blessings and Grace fall on you like the gentle rains that feeds and nourishes the most beautiful of God’s spring garden flowers.
NotWhatHeSaidofMe, thank you for your dear, kind, and loving words. There is nothing that you have said that I don’t agree with. Especially your opinion that he was punishing me for the lost opportunity to spend the holiday weekend with another woman. Much, much later I figured that out for myself. I also came to the realization that the reason he showed up on my doorstep on Thanksgiving was that the affair had run its course and he now needed to move me off the bench, or else be alone. This pattern repeated itself with other mini-discards throughout the relationship.
Too bad we can’t see the forest for the trees when we’re in the thick of it.
After the final discard, one day I was on the treadmill at the gym and found myself deep in a fantasy of turning the tables on him. Beating him to a bloody pulp until he begged me to stop and then laughing at him because he couldn’t take it. Walking away. I went back to this fantasy a number of times and it helped me resolve my rage. It didn’t take long to be done with it.
Now”just sadness.
My heart hurt reading this, Hanalei Moon. It is unthinkable the cruelty he inflicted on you and the pleasure he derived from it. I’m just so very sorry. I imagine it took a lot of strength to walk away and find your own self again. For as deeply as you have been hurt, I wish you even more peace and happiness. You may find specific trauma work such as EMDR beneficial to you at some point. I don’t know if you are suffering any physical illnesses as a result of all the past stress, but trauma work may help you to release it.
I’m so glad I come here often, and I hope I never disappear for too long. I’m always so inspired and amazed by the strength and courage of the posters here. You all give me hope for my own ongoing struggles.
Stargazer, thank you for your kind words. I am so thankful for you and everyone here who contribute to making this a safe place to share and heal.
HanaleiMoon………OMG……….I just want to, I don’t even know……Hug you, yes…throw him in a hole he can never crawl out of, yes. I just do NOT understand how a man can do this,,,,,,ANY of any of this to a woman and live with themselves! It is literally inconceivable to me! And yet I know they do!
I’m so VERY glad you are away from the POS who did this to you and sad at the same time because I understand how much damage is done and how hard it is to get your feet back under you, but you WILL, you absolutely will. Just know that initially it seems like you won’t/ can’t but you will and you can. HUGE HUG from Dorothy……
And, NWHSoM,,,,,,what a beautiful and heart felt reply to HanaleiMoon.
dorothy2, I’m feeling your hug! Thank you!!!!
Ok I’m back!
My ex has been crying begging and pleading for my return and to anyone that will listen (cringe….me too) he’s listed the the things he did wrong, although I haven’t revealed everything I know or suspect. He’s explained why he did what he did by revealing his insecurities about his back hair (?) Which I was already aware of…. Please remind me why I left! Part of me was hopeful and part of me was thinking I’m being played…do sociopaths cry like this? He’s never cried for me before even when I thought it was really over several times during our marriage – can they just switch it on like that? Help! I thought I was moving forward and now I feel sorry for him…my bad I think 🙁
Ironic – yes, they can turn on the tears. Don’t fall for it.
ironic
Still all about him, isn’t it.
You want a red flag about where you fit in? He’s got you feeling sorry for him. I think Donna calls that “the pity play”.
Dang nab it. He’s making YOU responsible for him. Responsible for HIS manipulations? Nah. Never heard of that before…
Notwhathesaidofme
That put a smile on my face 🙂 thank you!
Looks like I tried to go it alone too early….
One thing he did and it really shocked me was towards the end of the pity party he’d been crying for most of the 3 hours (off and on) he said he wanted to prove to me that I was attractive to him (I’d told him that his lack of intimacy had made me feel ugly and undesirable) anyway he moved towards me and crabbed my handle, I told him I was too injured by the relationship to receive any affection from him but he said it wasn’t that and put my hand on his penis….it was rock hard! (sorry if this offends some) now I’m not relationship savvy but id have to assume that anyone that had cried for so long wouldn’t be capable of that…am I right? I’m cringing over the memory…
ironic
Look at the difference between a sociopath and you. He totally has zero awareness what your complaint was about, he has NO empathy for you.
Oh hubba hubba Mr Dick, Swwwwoooonn. What a smooth operator! Surely an Erection is proof that he’s truly sorry? Or… just proof that he hasn’t gotten any in the last couple of days?
Yeah.
Not, my X looked me in the eye and said, This is proof that I love you.
I said, Then most of the men in (where we live) must love me. 🙂
He also looked directly at an expensive clock at my new place and said, I should be living HERE! 🙂
I would not want any of you to believe that I got the point easily, quickly, or HALF as fast as I’ve urged you to get it. I didn’t get the point until it was poking my eyes out.
Not
I’m so swimming in the mud of this relationship that I’m hearing my instincts question his responses but I’m not clear enough to Know if I’m right – thanks for backing my instincts up.
Nocontact
Please poke my eyes out! 😉
ironic, my ex did the same thing once”he bailed on the relationship via email and cancelled a cruise we were scheduled to take. About a week later, he called me so sad, came over and cried because he had made a mistake and it was “meant to be” that we went on the cruise together. He did the same thing with my hand/his penis to show me how much I meant to him. Ick.
(About a year after the final discard, I found out the reason he had cancelled, then uncancelled the cruise with me: he found someone else he wanted to go with better, cancelled me to make room for her and then she turned him down. It was either come crying back to me, go alone, or not go. I’m cringing over THAT memory.)
Hanalei
I’m cringing for us both…I’m also glad to hear that it’s not normal unless you’re a sociopath.
I’ve missed you all so much!
Ironic, He’s pulling out all the stops to get you to feel sorry for him to reel you back in. He knows exactly how to manipulate you. Mine only cried when he saw that I was done and was trying not to get sucked back in. I know the part hopeful/part being played feeling”and I was ALWAYS being played. The only way I know of to not be pulled apart like this is no contact. They do not change.
Ugh! I wish I had a dollar for every time I felt sorry for my ex. Do not fall for it!! Pure manipulation.
(Back hair?! OMG I’ve heard it all now.)
Hanalei
I know right…back hair…
It put me straight back into a state of confusion. After speaking to the solicitor today, im back on track again…
Round number 574 take two..or 3…or 58…
“I guess I’m not as strong as I used to be
And if you use me again, it’ll be the end of me.”
Say That You Love Me – Fleetwood Mac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tcVGGpX9_0
Stay strong, ironic! it’s YOUR tears that we care about.
Aww thanks nocontact!
Now to try no contact again….
Back hair, huh? Hmmmm….I’ve dated several guys with back hair. They were not sociopaths, nor did they cry or whine or feel insecure about it. And if they did, they could just go get it waxed and no one would ever know. That’s a new one on me. I have a few chin hairs, being as I’m almost 54. I have to pluck them out every day. Perhaps I should start whining and manipulating people over this? Sorry for the sarcasm, but some of these spaths are just so ridiculous it’s funny. But it’s not funny how easily we can get sucked in by the manipulation. Been there many times. You know that whack-a-mole game where the mole pops up out of a hole and you hammer him back down and then he pops up in a different hole? That’s what these guys are like – whack-a-moles. They pop into your life every once in a while, and you have to bat them back down.
It’s easy to get sucked into their pity plays though, especially when the lies are so convincing. The most obvious sociopath I dated stood me up a few times. The first time, his excuse was that he was having brain surgery. I actually believed him. *shakes head in disbelief* He was SO convincing. I saw him cry about something and felt so sorry for him, then found out later he lied about the whole thing. They are master manipulators.
Even though I thought I’d learned the lesson, I still had a go-around recently with a narcissist. It took a while to recognize the pattern. He had a lot of the qualities I was looking for. I felt a lot of potential with him, and he said he felt the same. The only thing is that every time we would start to get close, he would suddenly be very busy then disappear. At first I could have cared less because I hardly knew him and wasn’t attached. But after the last go-around, things started becoming intimate (though thankfully not sexual). Suddenly he had two pre-planned trips out of town, but swore he would make time for me when he got back – that he had no more travels coming up for a long time. However, when he got back, he was very busy for 2 weeks. Then a friend of his got murdered (which I believe did actually happen), sending him into his man cave for 3 months. Just as I started to let go and get close to another (more worthy) man, he popped back up like a whack-a-mole wanting another chance and offering to explain in person why he disappeared. After deliberating for a month about whether I should try to get closure or just go no-contact, I sent him an email telling him to come back only if and when he’s ready for a serious relationship and is willing to back it up with actions, and otherwise leave me alone. He called right away, elated that I had given him a chance. He claimed he did want to see me and he did want a relationship. Of course, this stirred up my feelings again. Then guess what? He went to Chicago for some work-related thing. I got one generic email from him while he was there; then he disappeared again. I’m sure he will pop back up as I’m disconnecting from him again. It has taken me a long time to see his narcissism. I so wanted him to be right for me, and I thought it was just taking us both a lot of time to become “ready” for one another. Ugh. I’m a little slow here.
All of this is making my close guy friend (the more worthy one) look better and better. He’s not sexy and exciting like the other one, but I’m learning to love someone who is steady, reliable, and very good to me. I’m starting to see that love is a choice and I can choose whom I love.
stargazer
Oh I know! He’d get it waxed occasionally tgen he’d deny having it removed, somehow twisted it back on me and always sent me into a state of confusion. I’m glad you see ut for what it is – I’m flying blind as his words still have some sort of hold over me and my self worth hasn’t returned yet – uts almost like an illusion I’m emotionally involved in?…
I look forward to finally having some control over my spadar!
Good luck with your normal man 🙂
WTF? He’d have his back hair waxed, then lie about it? Dang! This gets funnier and funnier. Then he’d create more drama out of it? LOL Who does that??? Oh yeah, a sociopath. That one is right up there with the improper pillow fluffing and the impromptu brain surgery. ha ha ha
I hope you can laugh at the absurdity, ironic, because that will help you hold onto your sanity every time he tries to manipulate you.
Yes Stargazer, I’m laughing now….especially after the hand on the hard penis thing he did again today when I picked up the mail…omg!
“…love is a choice and I can choose whom I love.”
Thank you for pointing this out. It is profoundly true and profoundly important.
I hope this will turn out to be true for me because the man in my life who truly cares for me is not really my type. I have crazy chemistry with the narcissist.
Stargazer, I love you! From now on, anything I need an excuse for, it’s because I have chin hairs! LOL!
HanaleiMoon, I think chin hairs can be used as an excuse for a variety of situations. “I’m sorry, I can’t go for a bike ride with you. I have chin hairs, and they fly in the wind.” “Sorry, I can’t go out tonight. I have to stay home and bleach my chin hairs.” “Sorry I murdered that guy. He made a nasty comment about my chin hairs so I had no choice. He was asking for it.” “Sorry I robbed that bank. It’s common knowledge that people with chin hairs are poor and need all the money they can get, by whatever means they can get it.” “Sorry I treated you like dirt. Having to pluck those chin hairs out every day really aggravates my pre-menopausal angst.” “You should feel sorry for me. I have chin hairs. 🙁 “
OMG Stargazer! what a riot, you totally hit it “on the chin.” It comes in different flavors too, for instance mine was “I’m bald.” “Because I’m bald….(you owe me something, I hate your hair even more than your guts, I am unable to be a decent human being, you should suck my d—).” Mom never told me! – it’s all in the hair. 🙂
And here I thought Life was all about cleaning, no wonder I blew it, oops.
OMG Stargazer, I can’t stop laughing! I’m sorry, officer, I didn’t see the red light because those two impossibly long eyebrow hairs were obstructing my vision!
And NoContact, you too! The line I used to hear was “if you’re not doing anything right now then why aren’t you sucking my d—”
Uh, saving you the agony of my pokey chin hairs! Bwwaahhaha!