UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
Here is an update from me: I finally released the narcissistic guy and I learned what I was supposed to learn from him. It has really come in handy because I met a really really great guy about 3-4 weeks ago. He is extremely honest, open, intelligent, and a lot of fun. He is 9 years younger than me but doesn’t see my age at all. I have finally gotten crystal clear about what I want with a man, and I made this very clear to him from the start. We have been gradually getting closer, but I’ve had to put the brakes on the sex, even though the chemistry is out of this stratosphere. He is exploring and learning about himself right now, and part of this is that he does date other women. No problem – I date other men. But I don’t have sex with them. He does with these other women. So I made it crystal clear to him that if he wants to be my lover, he will need to give up the others. I also told him that I respect his choices and it is his choice whether or not he wants to give up his freedom. I think he’s conflicted, and I think he’s thinking about it. He doesn’t want to hurt me.
But the best part is that I put my needs out there, and now I’m willing to walk away if he is not on the same page. If he’s still playing the field, good for him. I’ll just move on. I’m okay with it, and I have no problem doing it, even though I like him very much. I’m learning what I need to learn about opening up and being vulnerable (which he loves about me) but setting firm boundaries (which he respects).
I feel so much stronger. But on a side note, geez …. are there any guys in their 40’s and 50’s who are not playing the field? It must be tough with so many predatory women out there (from what they tell me). Heck, I had a woman grab MY boobs on the dance floor the other night!!! And another one grab my butt a few weeks ago. With all these lonely single women out there, it’s no wonder guys have a hard time limiting themselves. But this new guy in my life knows I’m better than that and that I can offer something deeper. We have really connected, and it has felt wonderful. I feel the time we’ve spent together has uplifted both of us. He has definitely helped me come out of my shell of self-protection. And I think I’ve helped him too. We shall see……..I have no idea what will happen….
Good points from Joyce.
Also, if you’re looking, but only finding guys in their 40’s -50’s who are ‘playing the field’ maybe consider looking in different places and you might find a different sort of guy.
I hope all goes well for you. It doesn’t sound like this guy has been planning to settle into a committed relationship.
Stargazer-
I’ve begun to wonder why so much of society thinks that having sex is simply entertainment instead of the bonding experience that Mother Nature designed. Truth is that even if we look for “unattached” sex, the resulting stir of our oxytocin can take charge of our brain and make us feel connected. Your decision to wait ’til he feels more committed is a good one. But I’d be concerned that he has sex with women that he doesn’t feel committed to. I wonder if they think they’re a fling or that he’s committed to them? Wouldn’t want for you to be in those shoes.
Joyce
That’s a good question, Joyce. I think he just considers it as part of dating and getting to know someone. He went out with one woman on 5 dates, and the woman wanted to be exclusive, while he thought it was too soon. For him, sex is just part of dating. Many guys are like this. And honestly, I know some very emotionally mature men who would never pass up an opportunity to have sex with a beautiful woman. They are just wired differently. I used to get angry about it, and I would nag and control. I have come to accept that they are different and allow them their differences. I cannot control their behavior – I can only set boundaries and express what I want.
I think in this day and age it seems impossible to find a desirable exciting man who is celibate. But at least I can hope for one who is completely honest. That way we can communicate and negotiate about what we want from each other. I think the ability to negotiate and the ability to walk away if you can’t get what you want are crucial in dating. I have had a tough time doing both, but I’m getting better. I felt very vulnerable telling this guy that I do not share my lovers and that if he wants to be with me intimately, it will be only me. The last two guys walked when I told them that. I totally own that I am possessive and want a one-woman man. I just owned it. BEFORE having sex. That way he can decide how bad he wants it. Is he willing to give up his freedom for it? I wouldn’t expect that from a guy after only a few dates. I do not judge him at all or make him wrong. I only state what I want. And if I cannot get what I want, I will just walk away. No drama at all. It’s the best feeling. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to do this. Sure, I will be sad if he chooses his freedom over me. But the truth is I have a very rich fun-filled life, and I meet new men all the time. I will just move on. The right one is out there. He will value me, appreciate me, and won’t want to be with anyone else once he’s gotten close to me.
Sometimes two people can love each other but just not be on the same page. This may be the case with this guy. If so, I will wish him well and move on. But then again……..I could haunt his dreams, too.
Stargazer…I found a very handsome, desirable, exciting man and he is (and we) are celibate. It’s awesome! It’s been over four months and we are together at least four times per week and no sex. We have not even been to each other’s place. We have intentionally did this so we will not be tempted. It was two months before I even gave him my phone number! We communicated through Facebook messaging and it worked just great. All of this made him respect me. We are getting married next year. We just connect. It’s been a total God thing. It exists, but what I have absolutely found is this…when two people meet, they MUST be on the same playing field…want the same things. If not, it just won’t click…won’t work. This is what I found with my guy.
SER, your story is SO inspiring and validates what I’m feeling too about being on the same page. I don’t know how long I could wait with this guy because the chemistry is very strong. But I have a feeling we are not on the same page anyway, so I’ve started letting go already. We last saw each other Saturday night. I have received one email from him telling me what a wonderful night he had and how he loves my energy. Then I have not heard from him since. So I will just move on. One step closer to meeting someone who is on the same page. I’m getting better at this.
How did you happen to meet your guy?
Stargazer…we met at church. We are both strong Christians so that helps with the being celibate thing. Mind you…neither one of us was like this in the past, but we both had very bad experiences that finally led us to say enough is enough and we promised ourselves that the next time, we would do it right and then we met each other…two people who were on the same page about what they wanted and also two people who were attracted to each other. It’s rare I think. We were both serving at an event at church and that is also what drew him to me because he wanted someone who was going to serve God along side him in life.
Sadly, I have to agree with you about the guy you met and not being on the same page. That is obvious since he is having sex with other women. I know some people may think my guy may be getting it somewhere else, but I highly doubt it and trust him. He is with me all the time and when he is not with me, he is at work or at his parents visiting them or with his nephew. Have I had doubts? Yes I have and it stems from being so conned and hurt in the past. It is extremely hard to trust after that, but the only way we will know is to give someone a chance. It was all God’s timing as far as my honey and me. I told him if we had met even just three months earlier, I most likely would have said no thanks. I can’t explain it, but it was totally God. I truly can’t explain it.
Joyce
Once again your words of wisdom resonate with my morals and make to much sense to ignore – thanks again!
Not, Hanalei, Annette, Kaya, and anyone else who was interested in the conversation about “shut up,”
I found an interesting and related article in Huff Post today about just that. You can access it, and my comment to it on my facebook page. Here’s the link: https://www.facebook.com/CAD.alert?ref=stream
Best-
Joyce
SER
hi 🙂 i was just reading your last post about the new man you have recently met and hope it works out, that will be wonderful…i got to the part about believing he isn’t elsewhere looking for sex and couldn’t help but briefly explaining what mine did when i thought that…keep in mind though, i am referring to a bad man and you are talking about a good man, so I’m not saying yours is doing this at all..and we are talking about a whole different species of a human with mine lol
when i believed mine was being faithful, no way he is seeing anyone, i always knew what he was doing and where he was when not with me….that frame of mind i had got me to where i am today…unlike you, we lived in two separate countries and had contact repeatedly throughout a typical day, email, text, Skype, phone and texting, his visits were very frequent so we spent many weeks at a time together…all my trust that i had put into him was impulsively torn away due to his actions and stupidity…he had managed during the times i trusted him, to meet another woman, visit her and get engaged without me knowing, claiming he loved me, was moving here to be with me, looking for work here and so on…about a week before he was leaving to be with her, he had told me he was leaving his country, he was meeting up with the very much younger girl (who he admitted to meeting the year before, but was having nothing to do with her because he didn’t like her, she liked him) and they were getting married…i still believe it was his impulsivity and his narc/sociopathic ways that got him to where he is today…married since july and a baby due in the spring…all this happened while i thought he was being so honest with me…
in your case …you are able to be with each other when you want because he is in the same city and church you go to, so at least you will know much sooner if he isn’t acting properly….and congrats on the engagement!!! 🙂
I agree that it would be good for SER to be wary, just in case. I met my ex P in church; he was ok with no sex before marriage because he was doing porn and isn’t heterosexual, so he wasn’t interested in an adult woman anyway, and he was happy to put off marriage until later.
My spath also mirrored my past. SER, I noticed that your fiance said that he had also had a bad experience.
I would be wary, and check up on him. If he’s on the up and up, he won’t mind if he ever found out, if he has nothing to hide.
I dated my ex spath in a vacuum – I didn’t get a chance to see him much in different situations like in a setting with his family, my family. Are you spending your time together doing different things with different people? My ex spath relied on a lot of talk between us, and being sexual without actually having sex. I didn’t observe him dealing with different situations, I only got to know him through conversation between us.
AnnettePK…I appreciate you writing to me with your concerns. Don’t think I haven’t thought about the porn thing. I really have, but he is definitely heterosexual…I do know this…he is absolutely not gay. As far as mirroring my past, he has had more bad experiences than I have and in part that is due to me being the type who doesn’t move on very easily and really didn’t care if I had love in my life or not. But he really does want a relationship so he has been the type to keep seeking it. Different circumstances led to it not working out for him in the past, but we are together now and even though nothing is ever perfect, we have a very good chance of making this work. I have checked up on him. I have Googled him and have talked with family members about him. Everything checks out. We absolutely spend time together doing things with different people in different settings. We have visited his parents on Sunday afternoons; we have gone to family dinners; we serve at church together with other people from the congregation; he drove 400 miles (one way) to meet my mom and brother; he drove us about 300 miles (one way) to an amusement park just so he could meet my best friend who was also at the park, etc., etc. He wants to be with me all the time. You have to remember also…we are older…I will be 51 next month and he will be 53 in November. We are not like some crazy 20 year olds. I understand that it is difficult for people to believe something can be real after being so conned…trust me…I feel the same way!! I worry all the time about us, but I just need to trust God and enjoy him. He hasn’t given me any reason to doubt him. If he does, then I will deal with it. I am still cautious. I am. Thank you for letting me know what happened to you so I can look for some of the same behaviors.
SER, Oh I hate to comment again but dang every time I read another comment of yours another red flag goes up!
My ex was the same way. and I was 41 and he was 35, I was not that into a relationship at the time but he pursued it. He bought me flowers, wrote me poetry, called all the time, met my family and friends took me to meet his. His family never said a word to me about anything wrong with him but they all knew there was something but they all hoped I was the woman to change him and he tells such great lies no one really knew the truth about him anyway.
We talked for hours on end, about everything, he wanted to know everything about me and was so open about his past hurts and how he had been taken for granted by women who took advantage of his good nature. How he had been so stupid to get sucked in by women in the past. How I was so easy to talk to, he had never had a woman talk to calmly and be so rational. It was so refreshing to be able to discuss anything. He had thought he had been in love before but now he knew what real love was and he was never letting me go. he loved me just the way I was. You mentioned porn. I must have missed that comment so I am not sure what was discussed but, porn is a HUGE red flag!! My ex was addicted to porn the whole 10 years, he hid it the first year but it got progressively worse over time until he was up all night looking at porn and then coming to bed as the sun came up to get his rocks off. I even offered to watch it with him but it was a private party with him and his fantasy harem. I found 102 porn sites saved on the computer, how I found them? I clicked on the “Christian” folder on the desk top.
When we started dating he wanted me with him all the time even to go to the corner store. It kinda bothered me, I would be reading a book or something but he wanted me along and I thought it was a small concession to make for a man who was so good to me so I would go with him. little did I know years down the road he would be disabling my vehicle so he could control where I went and when.
Please give it lots of time!!
Lady T, I brought up porn as the reason my ex spath was content to remain celibate (with me) before marriage – he preferred porn and he wasn’t heterosexual.
I am feeling red flags, too. I was 46 when I met my ex spath, he was 53. I was sure he was hetero. I was saying all the same things you are saying to the couple of people who expressed trepedation to me (There weren’t many, the spath had a stellar reputation at church and home – he’d waged a very successful smear campaign against his first ex wife.
Lady T, your ex sounds so very much like mine. You do such a good job of conveying so much in your posts. Have you written a book yet?
AnnettePK…yes, I also wondered about is mine content with no sex because he is watching porn. Who knows. I don’t think so, but at least I am aware this could be a possibility. He is hetero though…I do know this. The one thing I can say about my guy is he never talks badly about his exes. No smear campaigns whatsoever. We all know that is a red flag and he doesn’t do it. I don’t know…I really can’t do any more than I am doing…taking it slow and seeing what happens. I really do appreciate your input! 🙂
Ladywithatruck…wow, that is scary!! What you said has scared me, but I still don’t know what to do about it. I am certainly not going to break up with my guy just because I feel like this is too good to be true. I can only pray and trust God that this is a good man who is who he portrays himself to be. I will pray that God reveal bad things to me if they are there. I will keep everyone posted! 🙂
SER,
I hope all goes well with your new relationship. Since we were all blindsided by our ex spaths, I guess it makes us mistrustful of everyone and everything. I know I’m not ready to date yet, maybe never. It sounds like you are doing all the right things and that you are being cautious.
Before the spath, I was married to a wonderful man (I was widowed). I fully expected my second marriage to be as good in the same way. Perhaps now I expect a spath?
AnnettePK…I understand. I wasn’t ready to date yet either, but it happened. It was four long years for me…still pining over the spath who hurt me. A long time. You did have a wonderful first husband so you know it’s possible. I always used to think that all men were bad, but am now realizing that is not true. I don’t know…the conclusion I have come to is that no one and I mean no one is perfect. We all have some type of baggage or hang up and if we think we do not, we are fooling ourselves. So if I am not perfect, I absolutely cannot expect someone else to be. I am going to ask him some in depth questions tomorrow evening and see what his answers are and how he reacts. I will look for all the clues I can.
SER,
I think observation also works to find answers. A good guy will answer truthfully and a spath will spin reality to get what he wants, and there’s no sure way to determine which is which.
When I was dating and engaged to my late normal husband, I was really happy. When I was dating and engaged to the ex spath, I was a nervous wreck but didn’t really understand why. I attributed it to a lot of other reasons, but I think my subconscious was trying to tell me something.
janedoe…I appreciate your comments and that you are looking out for me. Yes, there are big differences because he is here with me in the same city and hopefully, I will know much sooner if things start smelling fishy. At this point and from everything I have seen from him, he has given me no reason to doubt him. We have had very long conversations about so many things and I have been very open with asking him questions and he seems to be always telling me the truth and what I mean by that is, there are things I have asked him where he could have been better off lying and by that I mean that by telling the truth, he knew I may be upset, but he told me the truth anyway. He does have some baggage, but don’t we all. Plus, I have met all his family members except one brother who lives in a different state and I’ve had in depth talks with his nephew about him and he tells me that what I see is what I will get…he is who he says he is. So I am just trying to enjoy him and hope all works out. It hurt my heart to read what happened to you!! I am sorry. We have all been hurt before and there are never any guarantees unfortunately.
SER
it sounds like all is going well and you have done your homework…we do need not to assume everyone out there is poison, and this is all part of how to deal with it…taking it slowly, noticing any weird behaviour, especially talking to family…i am glad it is the way it is and hope it continues!!
SER
although i completely understand and appreciate that what AnnettePK and Ladywithatruck has said, they are speaking from experience, and their advice is probably better than mine i wasn’t in that type of situation…everyone is just looking out for you, but at the same time, if it feels right, you know what you’re doing…much luck and happiness 🙂
janedoe…thank you. There really isn’t anything I can do other than go with what I have got and see what happens. I am being optimistically cautious and taking it all one day at a time. Thanks for your kind words!
Lady
Thank you. Yes it was horrible what this guy did to me. He is a cop so it was so easy for him. When I emailed him once he tried to get a restraining order which my attorney had to fight in court to get dismissed. That is why I can never have any contact with him again, ever. He will lie and twist and the next thing would be criminal charges against me. They will take his word , he is a cop of course. I cannot give him anything that he could use against me. So I have no contact now about 16 months. Divorced in July of this year :).
They are all the same but him being a sheriffs deputy I have to be extra super careful.y lawyer advised me not to even go into the county he works (about 20 miles from where I live) which I follow. I will never look at or talk to this monster again.
Portraying me as mentally ill to my only child, my teenage son , with that he totally crossed the line. All the while he was having affairs with his co workers. They called him Cpt America at work. Makes me sick.
kaya48
captain american…that is funny lol
it seems that people who are in the position to have control in the work force, over other people, are also the ones who have serious emotional problems…they believe they can control not only with their occupation but in relationships as well??? i have read some of the worst people are police, lawyers, anything in govt or military are pretty damn f***ed up!
no excuse though when children are involved, thats where i draw the line…!!! I’ve told you that before i believe…:)
Capt America, he must love that!! My ex compared himself to Jesus Christ it didn’t help that his initials were JC.
they all think they are above the law, they are rock stars in their own mind and we all should be their groupies,, happy to be abused. You are wise to stay away. I stopped doing business in the town where he lived and lost money but it was worth it to not have to worry about him popped up out of no where.
Since we split my ex put a tracking device on my vehicle which thank God was discovered by a mechanic at work by mistake. But he got enough information to know where I lived and worked before it was discovered and tried to get me evicted and fired. He called my boss and told him he was a concerned citizen and he had seen me at the Husky gas station doing Crack and drinking Mike’s Hard Lemonaide. The husky is 5 minutes from my house. I was so shocked I was speechless and didn’t know what they were talking about and then thought, the husky is 5 minutes from my house why would I sit in broad daylight doing drugs and drinking when I could go home and do it in the privacy of my home and you could see the light go on for my boss. But it was close. As it was I had my 2nd heart attack shortly after and have been on disability ever since. No doubt the stress contributed to my condition. Just a point of interest; women who have been in an abusive relationship are 70% more likely to suffer heart disease. The stress of being with these toxic people takes more of a toll than we ever realize. My heart goes out to you. Sounds like you have a good lawyer though!
Lady T,
My ex did the same – compared himself to Christ – He spelled out his name “JIM” as Jesus In Me – what BS.
Thank you for taking the time to share your absolutely horrific experiences. I hope you are healing and your heart recovers its good health again.
Haha
My ex P was Captain Australia then 😉 he had such arrogance as a cop and truly believed he was God’s gift to the world and all women would swoon at his feet while he worn his tactical uniform….makes me sick to think that I allowed the relationship to go for so long but knew all this within months of us moving in together – affairs aside as I didn’t know about those til I wanted out.
Ladywith
I’m bracing myself for the anger and revenge when he finally realises I’m not coming back because I know to much…
I’m really proud of myself going no contact for 2 and a half weeks now…what is bothering me though…the fact he hasn’t written me to see if everything is ok, where i have been and why i haven’t written…is he really this uncaring?? we kept up correspondence right up til he married and then suddenly its like i dropped off the face of the earth, with messages being maybe once a week, when he could manage..he claimed that he wouldn’t be able to correspond like we used to because he is now married and living a new life and has to be responsible!!! responsible my ass…he loves to gloat and make himself look like he is the martyr in every new endeavour he has taken on,( and believe me every other week he was up to something “new and exciting”, his mind never stopped) always trying to look like he is the president of the world or something….
my point is while the no contact is undoubtedly the correct thing, should i email him one last time to let him know I’m satisfied with not speaking to him,now that he has proven what a schmuck he turned out to be, but how could a person do what he did,( by claiming he has deep deep love for me, thinks of me way too often, but needs to move on due to his “situation”) without any remorse (although of course he will say he is deeply saddened by his actions toward me and did not mean to ever hurt me..(uh huh, so what did he think then, i would be pleased?)) and somewhere down the road our paths will cross again…or do i just let this go and continue with no contact?
i feel i need to get it off my chest and bring him down a few pegs from his high horse, because he thinks he is the “almighty” and being responsible and caring for a girl 30 years younger, who he met while scoping the internet while “in love” with me…so this makes him look like the decent human being he isn’t….but i am just torn as to what to do…contact or not…yuck i hate this position i am in, i was doing so well! he did a good job though, trying to convince me i was number one and still am…all behind the back of his “child bride” he is sixty and she is thirty..yuck!!! ok i am 10 years younger than him as well but a little more wiser than a young girl i would think…is he really trying to be serious or does he need to be told?
Maintaining no contact is the best way to let him know that you’re satisfied with not speaking to him. A way to get it off your chest is to write a letter telling him exactly what you think of everything and NOT send it to him. He wouldn’t learn anything from it, he would still be on his high horse, and he wants to know you’re thinking about him and getting worked up about him.
He did what he did with no remorse because that’s what he likes to do, as difficult as that is to comprehend. If he wanted to do something different he would do different. He’s happy with the way things are.
As much as you can, try to focus on yourself and keep up the no contact. It’s your ticket to getting away from a no win situation.
100% of my experience is that every contact I regretted and turned out badly for me; and every day of no contact led to a better life for me.
AnnettePK
you are correct…i know, i just needed to be reassured…i believe this whole experience has made me OCD or something…its like i need a reminder almost daily to stay away from him. you are also correct about writing it down and not to send…i have about 8 drafts that i started to compose, almost like diaries, where i am expressing how i hate what he has done, what type of person he is, i have never sent them because when i see clarity, i figure “what for?” he knows what he has done, i have explained it 1000 times only to get his lies in return..then it just prolongs the healing process and i get angry and hurt just from getting his response…at first i thought he felt remorse for the situation and leaving me the way he did, real remorse, even though i came to realize his patterns and habits and what he truly is, i thought “ok but he is telling me honey, i am so torn between the two of you, i love her and you and can’t live a double life…blah blah” so i figured he had a little remorse….as time goes on and i see clearly, if he wasn’t who he is, he would be contacting me daily, asking me forgiveness and admit he has done the wrong move with his life…and we would try to work it out….its not happening and anything i write him will go in one ear and out the other…he is a lying, cheating, sly, sneaky con artist…and i doubt i am the only one who he was having a relationship with at the same time…no letter for him
My ex spath spent the entirety of his fake ‘marriage’ to me ‘deciding’ whether he wanted to be married to me or not. It took me forever (several years) to figure out that it was a game to him – he was a sadist and he liked making me suffer.
I wrote probably hundreds of emails to my ex spath that never got sent – it did become my journal in a way.
Sounds like you are doing really well. You are working hard to maintain NC and to guide your thinking process to reality. You are doing good things for yourself. If you keep doing what you’re doing you will get to feeling better soon.
Janedoe and Annette
You are both right and thanks for the constant reminders.
Jane…my ex P has declared his total responsibility for the destruction of our marriage. He has taken full blame for the things he knows that I know or explained away the things he’s denied. He is constantly begging my forgiveness and told me his vulnerabilities and insecurities – should I believe him? I don’t think so… if your (whatever path he is) did what mine is doing, are you saying I should listen to him and work on fixing it? Just asking because I’ve come extremely close to believing him…again….
Ironic,
When my ex P would hit me with the ‘abusers remorse’ it was always because he wanted something. I eventually realised that if he believed the things he was telling me (taking full responsibility for his harmful actions that I had discovered, and sometimes throwing in some minor wrong in that I had not discovered) that he would not have done the abuse, porn, cheating, lying, etc. in the first place. My ex P did not ‘make mistakes’ when he did these things because he knew full well at the time he chose to do them the harmful consequences, and did them anyway.
My ex P would use a lot of words acknowledging he did wrong, but he still didn’t seem to have any remorse that I was hurt and he didn’t change and act any differently. Once I’d ‘taken him back,’ he often would reverse his admission of guilt, tell me he lied and blame it on me in some twisted way. It was crazy making.
This was a cycle he kept repeating. I eventually saw a pattern where he threw the abuser’s remorse at me when he wanted something. He wasn’t getting any new information like an understanding or recognition of how his actions harmed me that he lacked. Usually when normal people make a change in their lives, it’s because they get new information that relates to their beliefs and actions, or they somehow ‘wake up’ and realize what they’ve been doing is wrong. My ex P did the same wrong things through 2 ‘marriages’ and 4 decades, and knew full well exactly what he was doing and planned for his wrong doing. He had all the information he needed to make the right choices, as he could recite the Ten Commandments from memory in the long form (including the parts about not lying, not committing adultery, etc.) and the entire 5th chapter of the book of Matthew (the first part of the Sermon on the Mount).
After a few years of this, I made it clear to the ex P that the marriage was over (since he’d left, done porn, pathological lying, cross dressed, abused, manipulated, was a sadist, etc.) but I am open minded to interacting with him if he really has changed. I told him he is welcome to pursue a relationship with me or anyone else. He has not chosen to date me. (What he has done is a bunch of complicated moves and games involving lots of other people and lots of lies and accusations that I ‘won’t let him come home’ etc. etc. etc. for several years now. I just keep repeating that I’m open minded to interacting with him upon real change, but he hasn’t asked me out once yet. He just does the same stuff he’s always done: lie, accuse, blame, groom new victims, and probably child porn and cross dressing)
If you think you can safely (your physical safety and your emotional safety) give your ex ‘another chance’ so that you know for sure whether he’s genuine, you could do so. However, considering your experience and situation, it is possible that your ex P could be planning something that involves harming you. Consider what he wants and what he is capable of. In my case, I know that my ex P would, due to several factors, consider himself better off if I were dead. My existence stands in the way of several things he wants. Because of that I am very wary; and I do and say some things to make him think things that keep me safer. For example, once he wanted to get together to ‘talk’ at a remote location. I declined. I would not get in a car with him now. He is capable of anything, and I have no idea what he may have done in the past.
If you do decide to give your ex ‘another chance’ you might put off reuniting for a year or so. There is a concept of a ‘healing separation’ that you could invoke. More info if you google it. There are ‘healing separation’ agreements and structure to the situation. It doesn’t help change anything with a spath, but it could buy you some time to think about thing.
Hope and pray all goes well for you. I think it’s unlikely your ex’s remorse is genuine, but I understand that you wonder. Of course you can forgive him as he asks you to, without ‘taking him back.’
ironic
oh how i wish i could tell you he is telling the truth and he means what he says…i honestly wish i could..
if i have to compare to me i would say “if you are now feeling the remorse and the destruction you have created, is there a reason for this suddenly?? such as he isn’t involved with anyone and is feeling lonely”
would i give him another chance? at this point i would have to say no…only because this just took place with us and i am very angry, plus mine is newly married and has gotten his child bride pregnant, so theres a lot of new stuff to get over in my case, plus he would be cheating on his new wife and family..for him to change suddenly shows he is very impulsive and immature…this would be very very difficult at this point also for me to turn him away but i am trying to get over that..
dont compare to your situation though,
you really really need to weigh your pros and cons in your case, don’t forget you were married and have a lot more at stake that i do
has this sort of situation ever taken happened before with the two of you, where he has come lback like this?
Consider what’s in it for him if you ‘take him back;’ perhaps that will give you some insight. And even if he is genuinely repentant, after all the bad stuff maybe the best is to forgive him without reconciling.
Annette
Funny you should say that! I’ve always had a love of Bush walking but my ex has never shown any interest til now. He has been asking me to go on walks with him but the idea scares me because he used to say he’d bury me in a national park if I ever took his superannuation off him or caused trouble for him at work. I am not going into any national park with this man nor will I get in a car with him…ok questions answered – that is enough to know, and thanks again xxx
Janedoe
My P never appeared to have a life outside of our marriage as all his affairs were done while he was at work (policeman). Now that I’ve left, he’s out all weekend every weekend visiting people he didn’t include in our lives. He’s been caught in several lies while he’s pleaded with me to return and continues to look at porn while declaring he’s not surfing the net undetected.
Both
I think I need to forgive him only so I can move on from this, not to return to it. The fact that he still causes confusion each and every time I speak to him should be enough…
janedoe, by making contact you are telling him you are not ok with no contact. By keeping no contact he is getting the idea you are fine with it. You and he have been doing a dance for however many years, he makes a move, you make a move, he in anticipating you doing what you always do, contact him for whatever reason. You are sitting there wondering why he isn’t making the move he always makes and he knows it is driving you crazy wondering why. It is a game, the only way to stop the game is to stop dancing. Contacting him only opens a crack for him to get in and hurt you. What do you hope to gain by contacting him to tell him you are ok with not contacting him? It would be setting yourself up for hurt, nothing good will come of it for you, it will only feed his ego.
A normal person might feel a twinge if you contacted them and said you are happy with no contact but that is a mute point because a normal person would not have done what he did.
You were a victim, now it is time to be a survivor and not allow yourself to be made a victim any more. The longer you are no contact the less you will want contact. It is an addiction that can only be conquered going cold turkey.
Good luck and big hugs
LadyWithATruck
as i mentioned to annettePK, you are right…it gives me nothing
he knows the type of person i am and i would never have gone this far in the past with not contacting him when something bothered me…
i do hope he is wondering how badly i am hurt, i hope he knows i am getting better, i hope he knows what he has done to my life by turning it upside down and he is what he is…and yes, by no contact he sees that i am disgusted, as i have told him when this all happened, so i am sure he knows…
but sadly,at the moment, i don’t think he’s wondering about me…you see, he thinks he is everyones hero and by getting this young girl pregnant and taking responsibility for it and doing what he can to make himself look good, is what he is focusing on at the moment…nobody else’s problems or feelings but his own. that is why he isn’t contacting me..he would respond if i wrote with the stupid apologies, but they are lies, because through the years together, thats what our relationship survived on…his many facades, identities and lies…in the meantime while he is proving he is superman to this new girl and family, i can’t wait until he slips and gets found out, that while he was engaged to her (and i didn’t know it until a week before marriage) he was having a full fledged relationship with me for three years, planning to move here to start a future, we had just spent a week away together on a “honeymoon” he said, looking for a home and work near me so we could be together..i feel sorry for the young girl, and he once told me “she is not as perceptive as you”….thats because i always found things he slipped up on that revealed what he was really doing behind my back with other women…it explains why he chose a young girl, so she would be naive and unsuspicious of all his actions..
so thanks, i am not going to write, i just need that reassurance sometimes 😉
Janedoe
I totally agree with you. My son wAs another reason I divorced him. I had to
Look out for his welfare and also not have this pervert in our family. I had to put an end to it. In addition to him being a cop , he is also retired from 31 years of active duty us army. Can you imagine ?
Glad I won that war.
How is everything in your life ? Thanks for your kind words.
kaya48
and your son probably is as wonderful today as you say, thanks to you being a good mom and not letting him be poisoned by your ex…
i think you may have mentioned he was in the military as well as being a cop…well that figures, doesn’t it?
mine as well…military many many years ago, govt employee (which i don’t know much about because its always so hush hush) and always seems to think he is on these stupid secret missions or contracts…who knows if its true…he once contacted me while away on a “mission” and had me bail him out from across the world where he was, because he had been robbed by pirates!!! i believed it too and bailed him out got him him a flight home and of course paid because he’d been robbed…although he never tried to take my money, that was the one time that he did…
as far as anything being new…im just trying each day, because this is all fairly new, to understand why he has done what he has…and the pain is easier each day,, but am often tempted to contact him and tell him he’s a f***er…i just need to hear from others that i shouldn’t do it and i come back to reality…im just scared one day when I’m not expecting it, i will hear from him..but right now he’s too busy being the martyr in his new life…
thanks kaya48…btw is the 48 a symbol of your age, if you don’t mind me asking?
It is likely that he is lying about his secret gov’t missions, and it’s a cover for cheating.
From what I’ve heard spaths almost always come back when the victim doesn’t expect it and is vulnerable
AnnettePK
Am sure you are correct on this
Do you ever get the nagging feeling that what we think I them as sociopathic is all a matter of over thinking the situation?? I don’t mean all situation where the evidence is right there but sometimes in my case I wonder if I’m just crazy and he isn’t a bad person…although what he’s done isn’t right…is it because I’ve been brainwashed by him?
What I wrote was about about judging before one knows someone.
But if someone is doing wrong and hurting others, they are a bad person and should not be associated with. Spaths work hard to spin their victims’ thinking and they work hard at impression management with everyone, to try to keep us confused that they’re really not mean and the reason we feel bad is some other reason than their behavior. The truth is if a man makes you feel bad, he’s a bad man to be avoided.
SER, congrats on meeting a wonderful man. I am sure you will be very happy and he is all you believe him to be. I hate to say anything negative and it is only because of my experiences I say this. I don’t know when you are planning on getting married but I just want to advise not to rush it and wait at least a year. That is the one red flag to me, they always rush the commitment thing and there is no rush. Let the love grow and time will tell if he is what he says he is. Savor the dating and the growing closer in love without making that huge commitment.
I trusted my ex with every fibre of my being, months he was exactly where he said he was, always called when he said he would. I met his family and all his friends, he had me answer his phone, gave me a key to his place, never took calls privately. he was an open book, no secrets, I was in heaven. I had met my soul mate and we were so in love. He cried when he told me he loved me the first time. He told me all about his past, even the stuff that wasn’t too flattering. I can not tell him how full my heart was. I too thought it was God that brought us together. It had been such a chance meeting and we had just “clicked’ from the word go.
The minute we moved in together the switch flipped and I saw a man I didn’t know. I actually thought he might have a brain tumor or something because it was so out of character. Then his dad got cancer, and then died and he lost his job, I could come up with a ton of excuses for his behavior and I was not going to let this wonderful man slip through my fingers. My love and understanding was going to help him, I was not going to desert him like other women had. he was so kind and sensitive, I was not going to give up on him, I knew there was that sweet man inside there.
Once you make the commitment of marriage or living together it is so much harder to protect yourself or walk away.
Just take your time, enjoy him and savor the love as it grows.
Congrats to you I pray he will make your happiness a priority for many years to come.
Lady T,
It is AMAZING how many details of your experience with your ex spath and my ex spath – the whole God brought us together thing, church, etc. etc. etc.
Ladywithatruck…how long was it from when you met to when you moved in together? I am guessing it was fast? I met him in May and we are waiting until AT LEAST next May to get married…we are not rushing. But what you have said is very scary about how he was sooooo perfect and then changed. I have thought about that many, many times and even asked him if he is going to change on me! Of course he says no. But who knows?? There are no guarantees. I would be beyond devastated if we would get married and he would instantly change. I think I would kill him!! HA!!
SER, first I want to say I am sorry if it seems like everyone is trying to burst your bubble, I think it is truly just genuine concern and everyone wants the man to be everything he presents himself to be. I know women who have gone on the meet wonderful men and be very happy, it is possible. I still believe in love, I truly do!!
I met him in Nov 2000 and moved in May 2001,, so 7 months and we bought a house together in Sept 2001 and the day we took possession of the house he refused to help me move any of my furniture in. I was bewildered and a little annoyed but he had lost his job the week before and chalked it up to him bring stressed. A few days later I was on the phone with my mom excitedly talking about our new home and all the things we were planning on doing to it. He came out of the bathroom and I could tell from the look on his face he was furious. He was spitting he was so mad, accusing me of taking him for granted, demanding I sign a prenup, saying I had made a shrine to my son because I hung a few pics of my son. It was out of left field, I didn’t know what to think.
we had always been able to discuss anything and there was no reasoning with him. He used to pack me off to bed when I was upset, but now he was throwing me down on the couch, that went to throwing me over the couch March 2002 his dad died of cancer and a few weeks later he strangled me for arguing about money he said I owed him (he had presented me with an invoice of every dime he had ever spent on me since the first date) and eventually on my birthday in April 2002 he punched me in the head and I hit my head on the counter and blacked out.
All I am saying is time will tell and it sounds like you are doing everything you can to protect yourself. That is all you can do.
Just a few things to look out for, the porn, and to be aware that a psychopath can be extremely disciplined when they want to be. My ex had a really high sex drive but near the end we went weeks without sex and when we did have sex he only undid his fly, didnt even take his pants off. They always have some sexual hangups. So it is a tough call with the sex thing. You know in your gut, follow your gut instincts that is the best advice i can give. Trust your gut, it will tell you the truth.
I truly wish you all the best, but at least you know if it doesn’t work yu have a great bunch of supportive friends here.
Ladywithatruck…that is an awful story and I am so sorry you had to go through that. Yours is a classic example of a spath keeping the mask on for a very long time. Wow, I can imagine how that would be so devastating…wondering who in the world is this man???
Ladywithatruck, your story is similar to mine except we were together (still kept separate houses) for 7 years before we bought a house together. It fell apart almost immediately. In fact, mine didn’t sign the escrow papers to close on the house, due to (what seemed reasonable at the time) work responsibilities. He gave me power of attorney to sign for him. In retrospect, what a warning that he wasn’t all in, but of course, at that point, would I have turned back? Of course not”because he told me I was the only woman he had ever known that he would give power of attorney to”.made me feel super secure as he prepared to abandon me.
I can empathize with the sex at the end. Mine would get naked but then would lay flat on his back on the bed and ask cooly “how are you going to please me”. I’d go to town on him and he wouldn’t even touch me. No wonder I don’t feel like having sex with anyone.
What you describe isn’t sexual intimacy. It’s something else.
HanaleiMoon, I had never had any sexual hangups prior to meeting my ex, I was confident about my attractiveness and ability to keep a man satisfied in bed. I had never had any complaints and I was always open to new things and tried to keep things interesting and exciting. But my ex would push away any advances I made. I remember one time going out to the shop at 11 pm in a sexy little number and rubbing up against him trying to entice him to come to bed. Zher literally stepped away from me and said he was dirty. I said, “I love dirty boys.” and went to just give him a kiss and he pushed so hard I fell over a tire behind me. I was mortified. Then of course he never came to bed because I never asked. I never turned him down but it was so insulting that he would stay up all night looking at porn before he would come to bed. \
But if we were split he was all over me. But at the end was the worst, to not even take his pants off and he started secretly taping us having sex.
It got to where I faked it because there was no way I could have an orgasm, I was so self conscience.
I didn’t think I would ever be able to have sex again or enjoy it but when I met that guy last year it didn’t take too long and I was enjoying it. But the first couple of times I had a really hard time. But i think they do that too, they don’t want us to ever enjoy sex with another man once they are done with us.
Ladywithatruck, I agree completely with you that they don’t want us to ever enjoy sex with another man once they are done with us.
I’m glad to hear you report you found out you can enjoy sex again. Like you, I didn’t have any hangups prior to meeting my ex, and I pretty much feel that in the future if meet a man that I feel safe and comfortable with, sex will take care of itself. Safe and comfortable may take awhile.
Janedoe
Yes it is my age, well now I am 49 :). And yes my ex was in the military for 21 years, not 31 sorry typo . That guy of yours sounds like a big liar also. I hope you can stay no contact. What I learned is even if you give them a negative comment (like cussing him out) he wins, he is in control again. He got a response out of you, even a not nice one. My ex used to “feed” on that. Now he gets nothing. That hurts his ego because now he feels he is not worthy enough. How dare of the ex wife and son not talk to him. He is Cpt America after all. Yeah right, maybe for his little stupid minions. They are all the same.
That “pirate story” does not seem right. Very strange.
Ironic
How funny, Cpt Australia. My ex also thought he was gods gift to women. Sometimes he would stand in front if the mirror and “wow, I am so handsome and hot, you owe me that I married you .” Yuck . He loved taking pictures of himself and his private parts. Then starring at the pictures and admiring himself. I could get sick just thinking that I once loved that man. I pretty sure he submitted pictures and videos of himself to online porn sites. Maybe not his face showing as he is a deputy. So of course the young woman who told him that he is so hot, he leaves his family for. I know for a fact that they had sex during their deputy shifts.
I am so glad he is out of my life . When there is better supply coming around , younger and hotter, she will be history. Because now it’s much easier for him as he does not have difficult divorce proceedings to go through. I truly hope he sticks with prostitutes because he is not capable of living anyone but his reflection in the mirror .
kaya48
Va Va Va Sproing! Oh yeah baby, he won me over with yer peker*. Didn’t Anthony Weiner send a bunch of women a “special” photo?
My ex was very very vain too. That’s my red flag when they think WHAT they look like matters more than what’s inside their peapickin numbskulls. (Tom Selleck excluded. He can send me a photo of AAaaannnyyyy part)
Did you see the news that Mark Sanford dumped his wife and four kids for the younger, beautiful “true love” but gee… he can’t commit to her either and blames his wife/kids for it. Sad that He’s not responsible for ANYTHING that goes on in his life. But… he says he’s been following his Christian beliefs! YAY! Right?!! (~gagging)
Kaya…49 😉
Oh yours and mine probably went to the same school of vain! My P had more products and spent more time getting ready than I did! I’m sure I was the bloke in the relationship…