UPDATED FOR 2020
A Lovefraud reader who posts as “LadyA” sent Lovefraud the following email. At the end, I suggest how she can recover from the sociopath.
I’ve spent a lot time thinking about my experience with my spath, and how it affected me and the people around me. I have read article after article, story after story. I now fully understand what spaths do and how they do it but I didn’t understand why I don’t feel any better about it. What was I missing?
When I left my spath it was a fairly dramatic experience. He had just been sentenced to serve jail time on the weekends for an obstruction of justice charge. My mom flew into town and in one swoop we packed up everything we could get in the car and left the province to go back to my hometown. I had to quit my job over email and send a goodbye text to all my friends.
I am thankful every day for what my mom did for me. I sure wasn’t happy about it at the time but I knew I needed out and this was my chance. What I didn’t know is how much moving back to my hometown would affect me emotionally. I had originally planned on only being back for six months. Just long enough for him to move on and get me out of mind, but it has now been just over three years and I still haven’t moved back. I got settled in a new job, new friends, and a new relationship. Even after all of this I haven’t been able to figure out why I’m not happy. Until three days ago.
Pride. I was proud of myself for the life that I had built. I moved 1200 km’s away from home right after high school to a big city. I was on the fast track to a strong career in a competitive field. I had a brand new car, paid all my bills on time, and was saving to buy a house. I was independent, reliable, strong, caring, and had a really great outlook on the world. Not many people can say that at 22.
All of that was ruined by a six-month “whirlwind romance.” I’m no longer proud of myself. I feel like I have failed because I came back home with my “tail between my legs” to my mommy. I no longer have a new car because it was repossessed as soon as I got back here. I am jaded, I don’t trust people easily, and I am no longer as strong as the face I put on the outside. I’ve gained weight because deep down I just don’t care anymore. My career is now on a plateau due to the location where I live. I don’t have one reason to be proud of myself right now.
How do I get my pride back when I know what happened? I want to feel proud of myself for my life but I just have zero idea where to start. I’ve thought about moving away again, but I don’t really know if that’s the answer. How can I be proud of what has happened in my life? I’m really honestly just so ashamed.
Donna Andersen responds
Dear LadyA,
I am so sorry about your encounter with a sociopath. Although this is not a normal breakup, the good news is that you can recover from the sociopath.
Right now, however, it does not seem that way. Why? I can see two reasons.
The first is that betrayal by a sociopath is a huge emotional injury. In the beginning of your email you said that, after all your reading, you now “fully understand what spaths do and how they do it,” but you don’t feel any better.
Understanding is a critical first step to you to recover from the sociopath. But understanding is an intellectual process, something that you do with your mind. The wound you experienced is also emotional. It needs to be dealt with emotionally.
How do you do that? You allow yourself to feel the pain of the injury.
This means letting yourself cry. Letting yourself scream and wail. Letting yourself experience anger — I’m sure there is anger — perhaps by working it out on a punching bag.
This isn’t pretty, and you probably want to do it privately, because other people often have difficulty being around this. Or, you may have a good therapist who can help you.
One way or another, any bottled up emotion you have within you needs to come out.
Underestimated the injury
Next you wrote that you identified the reason that you’re not happy as “pride.” But it seems like you are regarding pride as something bad, like one of the seven deadly sins.
You had every reason to be proud, because your pride was based on your achievement. And the sociopath took this away from you.
Here is what I think has happened: You have underestimated the scale of the injury, and the severity of the betrayal.
LadyA, you were building a life for yourself. You went out on your own; you started building a career; you were moving forward.
And some manipulative, deceitful parasite, who did something bad enough to end up in jail, ruined it for you.
Not only did he cost you money and hurt your career, he corrupted your outlook on life. You’re jaded; you don’t trust; you don’t care. You are not the young person you once were all because of the sociopath.
Recognize that this was not a normal breakup after all, you had to flee your home, job and friends.
Your life was shattered. Your psyche was deflated. This is a massive shock to your system. It’s no wonder that you are still struggling.
Drain the emotion
So what do you do? In my opinion, you do exactly what I suggested earlier — allow yourself to feel the pain now, knowing that the pain is bigger than you originally thought.
So you cry. You stomp. You imagine him standing in front of you and yell at him. (Do not, however, attempt to confront him in person. This would be counterproductive.)
The idea is to drain off the negative emotion.
As you drain the emotion, a void will be created within you. It’s very important to fill that void with joy.
This may sound preposterous to you, like you have no reason to be joyful. But don’t look at the totality of your life right how.
Do any small thing that makes you happy: Go for a walk. Play with your pets. Have lunch with a friend. Listen to music.
To recover from the sociopath, it may require many rounds of draining off the negative and replacing it with positive. But with time, you’ll find that your entire outlook will change, and you’ll be able to get back on track.
Importantly, with the wisdom you gained through this experience, you’ll never fall for a sociopath again.
Lovefraud originally published this article on May 12, 2014.
High school boyfriend pursues her, then abuses her
AnnettePK
NWHSOM
Oh jeez I never thought he could make that up but is it possible?? Sadly I’d have to say it could be as much as could be true…I mean all the facts seem to fit but do I really know?? It was such a weird story and I always wondered how anyone could have so much happen to them but I did give him the benefit of the doubt. But then again, everything he did was such an unbelievable event I always said nothing
“Normal ever happens to you?” It was always such a drama but I figured he was just one
Of those people…if I ever brought up any event he’d told me about, the facts were always right on from when he originally told me the story which could be months prior, so I had no doubt…but then even at the very end when he left me to leave to his new country, when he contacted me, his whole ordeal to get there and what his new life was going to be, was quite the drama and I asked “why is everything with you such a show or ordeal?”
So I imagine, he could have exaggerated his upbringing..but either way it would explain his behavior now, if he lied about his past and it would also explain his behavior if he didn’t lie about his past, I assume?
janedoe
There is this phenomenon called “The Pity Play” that is typical of the disordered. They spin a story to hook you. They learned early on that it worked with some woman, and thereafter they use it with every woman they want to trap/scam/com.
Frequently they’ll use a partial truth, like it might be that his mom did commit suicide, but… he had NO emotional feeling about it so it didn’t affect him in the same way that it affects a normal person. BUT, he learned that OTHERS are horrified and that he gets goodies from others when they hear such news. So… predators use it as their “pity Play”, their sad story that rope-a-dopes their prey to set aside their normal caution and give empathy and concern and kindness to a creature who has no conscience.
NWHSOM
honestly i remembered being very surprised at hearing how much he loved his mom..i would have thought that was normal to love your mother as a child but she apparently sexually abused him, had sex with him and forced him to do things to her…as a child you don’t know different but when you come to be an adult at 60 years old, and tell me he really loved his mom despite all of the abuse…is that normal? shouldn’t an adult be blaming her for how she did what she did???
so i was always a bit confused whn he would say his feelings for her were love this present time of his life…
he didn’t speak much of her abuse and suicide but he knew i knew and how upset i was for him..so it could very well have been a ploy of his that i wouldn’t doubt now…after all he has done to me…
NWHSOM
is there a phenomenom for the fact they always need to tell a story and make it sound out of this world, crazy??? like i mentioned, nothing (even running to the grocery store) is not a normal day to day thing for him…there is a wild story to everything…EVERYTHING!!!
one time he was at home and happened to look out the window and there was a huge fire down the street…he grabs his camera and runs out to take pictures of the whole episode…
when i asked “why did you do that”, he told me he was going to submit the pictures to the newspaper…and that he was a part time writer for the paper when situations like the fire came up…
so now he is telling me he was a journalist?? i had never heard this side of him, ever!!! unbelievable the stories were one after another…oh he was a part time actor as well for small parts in movies, he had a tuxedo hanging in his closet for these roles…lolol
when i told my friends of his life, they rolled their eyes and warned me over and over..
ask me a profession and he most probably has done it…lol
JaneDoe!
Oh OH OH! Google Ray Holycross! He’s a typical lovefraud scammer. He told this woman that his mother died in a car accident. She actually died in a car accident. Why lie? They lie even when they don’t have to. I guess at the time, a car accident was more traumatic to the victim/LF target. The website about Ray Holycross reminded me of some of the shenanigans you share about your ex. What a scumbag. At least you know you’re not alone.
I never heard of this spath, but his surname sounds contrived to me, also.
To clarify, what did he tell people about his mom’s death vs. what was the truth?
AnnettePK
Donna’s new article today, “Why I wrote Entangled” mentioned him. I remember he was featured on one of those expose news stories, where a group of his victims confronted him. So I googled him.
I mistyped. His mom actually died of cancer. He also told his victims that his siblings had died. They didn’t. They are alive and want nothing to do with him.
Thanks for the info. I’ll read Donna’s post about him. I am learning a lot, and as sad as the pervasiveness of spaths in the world, it helps me to know there are others besides the one who victimized me.
Yes, typical to lie about something for no reason that makes any sense, except to lie because they can and get away with and and feel ‘duping delight.’
NWHSOM
ok…Ray Holycross??? ok i will look into that immediately…thanks for thinking of me!!
who knows maybe Holycross is my ex in disguise…mine had many false identities when he was on social networking sites…lol
The last name, “Holycross” sounds kind of fake. I’ve never heard that as a surname.
AnnettePK
apparently Holycross wasn’t his real last name…he had others such as Cross, which i think was his real one
NWHSOM
wow they learn how to scam young these days..he was 29 years old! when you’re a sociopath, you’re a sociopath…
as soon as i heard “online charmer” that made me think of my crazy man…he spent endless endless hours on computer coming up with false identifies and wooing women everywhere….funny though, money was not an issue for him and he was not a wealthy man, but didn’t try to get it from women…online the sex, i think he was trying to feed the fact he was “so called rejected as a child”
all i know by the end of a typical day, i am so exhausted because i spend so much energy trying to put the pieces together
thanks for this helpful bit of info! 🙂
Well everyone, I’m feeling better about the whole thing and ready to move on. I was on the phone tonight with a platonic guy friend who is maybe a year or two older than me. He used to be my neighbor, and we’ve been friends for a few years. He also was a big player when I first met him. Now, he has given up all the womanizing and just working on himself spiritually and emotionally so he can have a serious relationship. He is an attractive guy, too, and has many opportunities for sex. This gave me hope that there are still some moral guys out there. The icing on the cake was that while I was on the phone with him tonight (about 10 pm) the other guy called. I did not take the call – I assume it was a booty call. He did not leave a message so I won’t call him back.
I’m in a much better space. Even if I run into him at the party next week and he is womanizing some beautiful young woman, I know it is about him. It has nothing to do with me.
Lesson learned: I kind of knew this guy was a bit of a player from the time I met him. I guess I thought I could play a little without getting burned and maybe even settle him down. No such luck. I will know what to watch out for next time. Because apparently there ARE guys out there who are holding out for the real thing. That phone call to my friend could not have been timed better.
I am reading all about stories or remorse. My ex husband not once showed any remorse , not once said sorry for the destruction he caused. Nothing whatsoever . He blamed me one hundred percent for all of it. Even in the messagrs after the discard he suggested I see a psychatrist for my so called “mental illness” which caused him to leave. Even on the messages to his son , nothing, just a lot of blaming me. I will stay no contact until the day I leave this earth.
And thanks ironic , kaya 49 would me more appropriate. Thanks for making me smile this sunny morning. 🙂
The remorse is fake. If they felt real regret and changed their behavior, we’d be living happily ever after in normal relationships.
When spaths say they are remorseful it is only words. Their motives and actions don’t change. Talking about remorse is a tactic that the spath thinks will work to get something he wants. It may be that your ex recognized that talking about remorse would not work to get what he wanted from you, or he assessed that he didn’t want to go to the trouble of faking remorse to get back together with you once you knew what he really was like because he didn’t think he had a good chance of continuing to abuse and manipulate you. You demanded change and he chose not to change, so he’s gone. He may have sensed that you were absolutely not going to put up with what he wanted to do and how he wanted things to be.
My ex P said (and still says to others) the same kind of absolute non sensical accusations, like your ex saying he left because of your mental illness. There are so many things wrong with that fake reasoning/accusation/blaming it would take ten pages to try to explain truth and reality, which the spaths already know anyway. I spent several years trying to explain reality and normalcy to my ex P until I woke up to reality.
I agree that there is no remorse unless it is fake to get something they want. I personally never saw even fake remorse once in 7 years. My ex absolutely loved doing something cruel to me and then acting like it had never happened, and telling me I was crazy for feeling the way I did. The only thing that came even close was after the final discard left my life in ruins, after all the cruel things he said and wrote, he wrote me an email stating “remember, my dreams have been crushed too”. Even that was crafted to make me feel bad. I remember rolling my eyes when I read that.
When I moved to the new house, we were apart for around 3 months except for one two week visit and the last three day visit when he discarded me on the way out the door. I really think that time alone gave me just enough freedom from him (even though it continued over the phone) to have the perspective not to chase him after that final discard. I felt a taste of how it felt to not be completely controlled. I have a clear memory of that time, standing at the kitchen counter and reading a People magazine and thinking to myself, well, I won’t have time to do this when he gets here. Ugh.
My blood pressure went up just reading that BS “my dreams have been crushed too….” Infuriating. My ex P said stuff like that all the time. I eventually switched from feeling suicidal to homicidal, and felt a lot better! Not seriously would I act on either, but I did experience a shift from turning my negative feelings inward to recognizing the spath is the cause.
Your ex spath probably didn’t bother tossing fake remorse at you because he didn’t have to. From what you have shared, it seemed like you were willing to take a lot of abuse from him for awhile. They just use whatever tactics they need to do to keep us hooked.
Now you can save the gift of your generous nature and giving spirit for those people who deserve and appreciate it.
Annette, I DID take a lot of abuse, and I was often outside myself, rationally wondering why I was doing it. Thank God for therapy, and realizing that I had been targeted, had been observed carefully, maybe for a year or two, on an almost daily basis in an office setting. He knew I was a good person, a hard worker, an overachiever, he had enough intel on me to bring me down and that is what he did. Once he love bombed me, I am sure I basically fed him the rest he needed to know.
With sex, he fed me stories about his past relationships, how both his wives had denied him sex after a point, how he had gone YEARS without sex because he honored the relationships and he was SO happy to finally find me, and have a happy, healthy sex life. UGH! All manipulation to plant the idea that he was honorable even in the face of adversity, and to make me not want to deny him like his ex’s had, regardless of the demand. Even then, there was a line I wasn’t willing to cross, and he never let that go until the end.
I recognize all the manipulations now for what they were. I didn’t know at the time, and I know I was powerless to get out, even though I tried more than once. After we bought the house together, he changed dramatically”within days of escrow closing, I was talking to him on the phone, so excited and happy about setting up the house for HIM and all our plans and he flipped like a switch from happy and excited also to indifferent and cruel – criticizing everything and everything that I said or did, and hinting to me that if our “dynamic” changed, “this” might not work. I remember my gut dropping to the floor and knowing at that moment, I had made a big mistake. I had put all my eggs into the basket of him and the house. All I could do was hope for the best.
The best happened. He discarded me.
Yes, being discarded is a blessing, and the spaths often discard when they sense that the victim is waking up to reality, perhaps you were finding your inner strength and he perceived it. Otherwise, he would still be around abusing you to the extent he could get away with it.
The final discard is usually because the victim is discarding the spath and they just want to turn it around. They also do repetitive discards if they can get away with it. My ex started the process by telling me within the first few months of being ‘married’ that he wasn’t sure he wanted to be married to me. I thought he was being honest, and I don’t want to keep any man prisoner, being the nice person I am, so I gave him space. Big mistake, I should have done what my mother and her generation would have done – kicked him out forever or until he decided what he wanted. He played me, and ratcheted it up slowly, like the frog in the water slowly heated to boiling, and a couple of years later he was leaving me and returning on a literally weekly basis. It gave him something to do, and kept us apart which he preferred since he is not hetero and not interested in adult women.
My ex P did not know me as well as yours, and he misjudged me in some key ways. He knew some of my buttons but not all, which saved me in that his tactics were not 100% accurate all the time. It was bad enough, though.
My ex also kept comparing me to his first ex wife – I realized later he was training me to not be like he said she was. I asked him very early in our acquaintenanceship not to talk about our ex’s. He agreed, and continued to bad mouth her. First red flag. I tried to work it out, be patient, and repeated my request. It became the first point of contention that never got resolved. I didn’t know what a red flag was at the time.
HanaleiMoon
I hope you treat yourself to a subscription of People magazine, even if you don’t read it. That would make me feel good. Yep. I do live vicariously (just a little) through other people’s victories. After the hell we all have gone through, it’s a sweet feeling anytime someone has escaped an indescribable jerk like my ex.
NotWhatHeSaidofMe, LOL, to this day, I have a subscription to People and take great joy in having it just laying around!
After we bought the house together, he dropped the bomb that “we” would be getting rid of my computer when he got moved, and his computer would be the “family” computer and would be located in his office. I balked greatly at that, and he said that maybe I could keep my iPad for recipes and stuff in the kitchen, but that I no longer had need for a computer of my own. He also said he would take over the finances and give me a generous allowance to run the house, but that I didn’t need to worry about money anymore, he’d take care of it.
Random story, but like I said, the best happened. He discarded me. I was LUCKY.
HanaleiMoon
Kaya49
AnnettePK
you know, mine “felt bad” when he hurt me…this last particular time…the times he cheated and lied for some reason never seemed to be a concern for him…but this last time when he had to break the news he was leaving me for a younger woman he apologized over and over claiming that he just didn’t see a future for he and i down the road…
so why then…when he met her in 2013 did he continue having a full blown relationship with me until 2014, claiming it was over with her during that year, she was this and that and her family was this and that and she was a low scum bag…only to turn around and finally tell me in june he was moving to be with her…lving with her “low class” family, he had no job going there…etc…
so it apparently wasn’t a problem to be with me during the whole past year, to continue what we had from previous two years, lie to her as well as me saying she was out of the picture and not worth spitting on…only to break the news in june he was going to move there…
he was so remorseful and so apologetic…well i know now he wasn’t..he put on a great act by telling me i was his world, he wanted to be with me and remain contact and seeing each other once he was settled there…blah blah blah
i think he is afraid to say the truth and he thinks lying is a way to make him feel that he hasn’t done anything wrong???? he lied a whole year to me telling me she was gone out of the picture and moved on….by telling me in june he was leaving to marry her, he was admitting that the past year together was a lie to both her and me!!!
of course in my long messages to him when i would point all his deceptions and wicked evil ways he never responded or defended himself..he knows i am correct…he was telling me (and i don’t like to criticize people but these are his words…he can’t understand what he ever saw in her, she looked like a horse, she smelled like farm animal, her family was so low class and only was looking for a husband for her that was better off than they were…her parents are his age and he lives in the same dwelling as the whole family (so who looks low class now?)
my whole point to the message is he claimed to feel remorse for me, so very sorry, i am the best thing ever and we will be together down the road…same breath went off to marry “the horse and farm animal”
you’re right, the remorse was bullcrap and only a way to make him feel like he was doing nothing wrong to anyone…i hope i haunt his dreams!!! loll
janedoe
Of course he continued spinning the lie that nothing is HIS fault, that he had any obligation or responsibility to you. He’s a narcissist, all revolves around HIM, even his frickin’ apology, doesn’t it.
Like all of us, As HanaleiMoon says, we are LUCKY to be discarded by them. I know my life is FULL of possibilities, none of which could have ever happened when my ex was around because he did not allow blessings for me, only for HIM.
Yay, They are gone! WHoohoo! What I thought was the worst moment in my life turns out to be the BEST thing that has happened to me! Weird! HA! Happppppyyyy….!!!
He SAID he felt bad, but if he really “felt bad” he would have done differently than what was making him “feel bad” otherwise his feeling bad has no concrete meaning nor significance.
In my experience with my ex spath, lying and cheating is not a problem for him. It is a problem for me and he doesn’t care. It looks like your ex chose to play you and some OW because he liked it, and he didn’t care about the consequences to you (or anyone else – if someone cares about others, they care about the well being of all others appropriately. Otherwise it’s not caring, it’s manipulation if he only ‘cares’ to get something he wants.)
Sadly, in my experience spaths aren’t afraid to tell the truth (or afraid of anything except getting caught so they can’t get whatever they want which is not the well being of others nor their own good character). He may have been telling her whatever awful things about you he needed to in order to keep her hooked. Who knows? Better yet, who cares?
I don’t think that spaths lie to make themselves feel they haven’t done anything wrong. They don’t care whether they do wrong. If they did, they would stop doing wrong and stop lying about it. It’s clear to me from my ex spath’s actions, that whatever he said was randomly true or not. I could predict his behavior when I understood his motives and what he wanted, which was not what he said he wanted and what he said motivated him. His behavior choices and the insane stuff he said followed a pattern I could understand.
Annette PK
you are so so right…
your spate, my spate, everyones spate…it all comes down to lying, cheating, manipulative, abusive behaviour…
i always said to myself “if a person is able to act a certain way towards me, such as lying, cheating etc., that person is doing the exact same to others as well”
theres no way i was the only one he did anything to that was this intense…its the mind of an expert manipulative, sociopath that we are all dealing with,,ugh
Janedoe
Glad you said all that, my p never showed remorse to me or his young girlfriend after lying to the both of us for 7 years (duration of their relationship) he said he loved me and wanted to stay with me, when I found out, and told her the same thing but never once did he show remorse during our reconciliation – now he’s turned on the tears, lip quiver and begging like there’s no tomorrow and its throwing me off course. Yiur post is a welcome reminder…
Janedoe
Glad you said all that, my p never showed remorse to me or his young girlfriend after lying to the both of us for 7 years (duration of their relationship) he said he loved me and wanted to stay with me, when I found out, and told her the same thing but never once did he show remorse during our reconciliation – now he’s turned on the tears, lip quiver and begging like there’s no tomorrow and its throwing me off course. Your post is a welcome reminder…
kaya48
My ex showed remorse in what he said I did. Right after our divorce was final, he sent an email feeling sorry for himself, that he “always thought someday we’d reconcile”.
What a crock! After what he did to my daughter? All the women? The STD’s? Inciting people in the community to harass and abuse me? The smear campaign where I was labeled “the crazy bitter wife who wouldn’t let go of him?”. Hiding assets so I’d be penniless after nearly 20 years of marriage? AND AFTER TRYING TO MURDER ME? I laughed and cried at the same time. He also said “the best thing that ever happened to him” was me. Gee, I bet he never told all the what’s her names while he was screwing them that his wife was the best thing that ever happened to him. There were several “other women” who were vicious to me, laughing at how he chose them. I did use the timing of one of his affairs to push through the divorce, he couldn’t stop me because his lie was how I refused to get a divorce.
Blaming me for pushing the divorce through. Poor guy. Good thing he had all those women to make him feel better.
When one thinks about it, what does “I always thought we’d reconcile” mean? Either he does what it takes to make reconciliation possible and then actually does reconcile, or he doesn’t. I asked my ex not to talk about what he would do, wanted to do, blah blah blah, but just do whatever and I’d know it. Then he blamed me for “you won’t let me tell you what I’m going to do so how will you know?” I told him I’d know when he did whatever he ‘was going to do’ whether he did it or not. Talk about crazy making. My ex was always saying weird stuff like this about what he thought he might do or not. I also used to say, “Let me talk to whoever is in control of you please.” He talked like something else controlled his choices and that things just happened, rather than he either did or did not do something.
AnnettePK,
I am sure that my ex’s self pity was part of the narrative he told others. Since he blamed me for his cheating and abuse, and gosh, since he was such a nice guy, then he must have thought just saying the words about reconciliation was the spin that he put on why he made the divorce so impossible (it was a nightmare getting him to provide documents), like it was MY fault we were divorced.
I like your “let me talk to whoever is in control of you please”. Wish I had those words a thousand thousand times!
But….me saying catchy accurate things like that was a waste of my time and energy. The ex spath viewed it as a win because I was interacting with him, and like a volley in a ping pong game because he would just come back with something more outrageous and infuriating to hook me into the game. My teenage son told me, “Mom, he’s just playing you. You’re like a puppet on a string.” It took me a long time to see it though.
The best tool we have is to say nothing, do nothing, not even to spend energy thinking about them and the BS they do and say that is designed to keep us in a losing game focused on them. No contact gets us out of the game because it is about us only; it makes no difference to the spaths because they just move on to the next victim and they could care less that it’s not us any more. Like playing slot machines or something.
Yes, AnnettePK
I see your point and you are right. I was just remembering my own feelings of flustration. Sometimes I felt like I was in conversation with an 8 yr old boy, not a 40 something sophisticated highly intelligent well spoken man. And… I didn’t know about LF when I was IN the nightmare but only after I broke free of the nightmare.
Not,
I spent years and tons of time and energy playing the game he was manipulating me into. Even after I knew what motivated my ex spath, I still kept interacting, and coming up with all kinds of smart mouthed accurate convictions of his BS, and all it was doing was entertaining him, and I kept at it. If I would have contact with him now I would probably go right back to it. I never could employ grey rock, I did not have enough self control, and I let the spath hook me into the same old BS. I wanted to overcome him in that way, but I failed and recognized that No Contact was the only way for me. I admire women who have the self control to step back and just observe the situation and not get drawn into the game.
AnnettePK
Me too. I went round and round, thinking if I could only find the right words, then I would unlock the problem of my bad marriage. It wasn’t until years later that LF helped me to understand, the key was not found in speaking, my solution was in silence. I am SURE that if I had found LF sooner, I would have left my marriage sooner. I had been convinced that my heartache was my fault for being too emotional, too needy, expecting too much, too demanding, standards too high, too mental, etc etc. LF validates so much of my passage through my marriage, that nothing I did was ever going to change the outcome of being dumped and discarded. It was inevitable from the day I met my ex.
ps next page I posted a thank you to kaya48 and you for your help last week.
Not, I also went round and round, spinning off my pins just like the spaths like us to be. I was widowed from a marriage to a wonderful and normal man, which helped me ‘get’ that the spath was wrong despite him blaming me. After all, I had one good marriage under my belt, and he had one failed marriage behind him. I knew I was the same person doing the same things in both marriages, and by all accounts I made my first husband happy, and I was happy with him.
AnnettePK
he asked how would you know???
you could have replied “well i knew my instincts were spot on when you were up to no good, so believe me, my keen instincts will recognize if and when you do something good for us to reconcile” (which may never happen anyway!)
Great answer, but he wouldn’t have used it for the excellent information it is. He would have viewed it as another round in the game he was engaging me in. It never mattered to him what I was saying, just that I was upset and trying to accomplish the impossible. That was/is his entertainment.
Kaya48
My ex is only remorseful because he’s got tooooooooo much to lose if I don’t return. Firstly it will make me look like an idiot and take all focus off him. He knows I’d be likely to take a big chunk of his superannuation as well as assets (he only has houses because of me!) His super is “old” original super and is like winning lotto in this country but if I touch it then he loses the original benefits – how f*ing stupid was he!!! At least go totally undetected if you’re going to live a lie…also, if I return then he appears innocent in people’s eyes and that plays well with him in the pending court battles ahead, devoted husband and father was what I think he was trying to appear as?…
Believe me when I say, this is the only time in 14 years that he has even attempted to appear remorseful. When things started unraveling 8 or 9 years ago, he just twisted it all back on me or lied to me and made me feel stupid for thinking he was out living another life, only to finally find out I was right all along.
Sometimes I wish he just discarded me for some poor 20 year old so I could move on but he’s become a stalker and I can’t seem to get him to believe that it’s over…
Thanks Annette for your grat explanation. I am still learning. At the end I really got tired of the mental illness accusation. And so did my lawyer. Worthless jabber we called it.
Dear kaya48
and AnnettePK)
I spend my Sundays focusing on my journeys with my GOD. I wanted to share a big thank you with you. I shouldn’t be surprised at this, and I know you won’t be… but after someone personally attacked me in my professional social circle, I came here and asked for advice and you responded with a bible verse. EVERY day since then, I have had confirmation and affirmation of your message, multiple times a day. I sat listening to todays sermon and it happened again. I am having lunch now and feeling so overwhelmingly blessed and it feels like it flowed from your reply to me last Monday.
Just wanted to send an extra big THANK YOU for being my support when I needed it, (I was so angry that it seemed at that moment last Monday that I couldn’t escape being such a loser), and I feel guided to think that GOD must be so proud of you for helping me in the way you did.
All my very best,
praying for the same to be returned to you,
raining blessings upon you and yours (and all of us here!)
NWHSOM
Thank you for sharing the good you’re experiencing. According to my understanding, God is pleased with you that you went to Him for help, and that you worked hard to do your part to overcome the anger and frustration you were feeling. It is not easy to overcome Satan’s pressures.
I am grateful that God could use me to help accomplish something positive.
NWHSOM
AnnettePK
at times when i would confront him, especially over Skype, with the things i had discovered about him i would find my self explaining what i physically had found and the proof i had only for him to look at me through the screen and put his finger at his ear, claiming he couldn’t hear me and my voice was cutting out!!!
next thing i would discover was whatever i brought up to him about him being deceitful (a web page i would find him on, a dating site or different fb identities) was conveniently and quickly blocked so i could no longer access anything and bring it to his attention.
i learned eventually to stop bringing crap up to him i had wasted time looking for and just kept my own private notes and someday would eventually call him on what i had found.
Oh yes! I endured hours of Skype conversations with the spath after he moved out and in with his parents an hour up the road. He would plug his ears, too, when I was talking.
They are so much the same, it’s boring. Round and round but never go anywhere.
The old fashioned way of dealing with these losers and liars, back in the days before it got to be fashionable to cut people slack, accept different values, be open minded to anything and everything, give everyone lots of chances, working things out; was to kick him out at the first lie and not waste time giving them a chance to explain, work things out, whatever. In my first good marriage, we didn’t really talk a whole lot about anything, we were too busy living and being happy, and loving each other.
Janedoe
The more I told him the more I taught him to cover his tracks. I too learned to keep my mouth shut but my eyes wide open. The problem now is I’ve told him a lot just to justify why I left and he’s done the same thing again. He will never know what was the final catalyst to drive me out, not until the police investigation is over and he’s charged but I had no choice but to give him enough reasons for me to leave – now sadly no knew victim will be able to track his movements because I’ve made him to aware of my knowledge.
ironic
yes we divulged too much info to them and now they know enough to cover their asses so they don’t leave a trace behind…we have learned now to retain what we know and divulge when we need to..
and unfortunately like you mentioned the new victims will nt have anything to trace back to because of what we knew…
Anette
I feel the same as you do. God has used me to overcome something so evil in my life. He worked it out for the good. I know you are very spiritual person and I was wondering if God will try to change my ex husband who is such an atheist. I am wondering if God will try to change him to be a better person? I know that the ex keeps reaching out to my son , his only child, every so often. My son wants nothing to do with him. My son totally ignores his father because of the “mentally insane ” label the ex keeps attaching to me. After all I am my sons loving mother and I will always take care of him snd be there for him.
Thanks for your input.
Kaya48
God already has given to your ex. Your ex turned away from God. Your ex reaches out to your son just as Satan sends minions to try to turn the hearts of the vulnerable. Your son is hurting. Is there no way to stop him from trying to get to him? I know my ex damaged my child, he did a full scale parental alienation, showered her with loving attention. And then, when he got what he wanted from her, he dumped and discarded her too, but not before smearing her to her whole community, as damaged because she was too much like me. They agreed with his decision to discard her then. Isn’t that incredibly cruel? To get others to agree that she is not worth loving and caring for?
You have no power to influence your ex. Even God gives him free will to chose. Your ex chose. God saved you and your son. I think that is obviously where every thought and energy should go, with you and your son. Not a moments thought to your ex. Or else you undo God’s Blessing and your attorneys (and your) very good work.
Blessings!
NWHSOF
My theology is that God will give everyone a fair chance to live His way, and that God will, in His own time, make it possible for each person to make the choice, but not necessarily in this lifetime. It may be that the spaths need physical healing from some brain deformity, or something else that God will provide. I believe God loves every person, and only He knows when a person has the understanding and capacity necessary to accept or reject God; therefore I am relieved of the burden of judging. The Bible says that God is in control and that He will protect me from trials that I cannot overcome, and that He will provide a way out. My job is to work out my own salvation, per Philipians 2:12.
Ezekiel 18:23 & 32, God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
1 Peter 4:17, Those in the house of God are being judged now, not those who don’t know God or don’t know of God yet.
Thank You Annette for this wonderful validation.
I had an awful mom but I have always said, How she acts is such a burden to her, I will confront her or vent on her, I will not add to her burden. I am convinced she is MADE a certain way and acts from that deformity.
I also say about my ex, I will not seek revenge. I leave all that up to GOD.
I am not blind to either of them (or my siblings either), so I do avoid and protect myself from them. I learn from them, they provided lots of lessons. But what to do with them…. is all up to GOD. I am busy enough getting my own act together.
oh. I just noticed. You wrote that too! Getting my act together… Philipians 2:12. Thank you!
We’re thinking along the same lines; it’s nice to be understood.
I keep in mind Romans 12:19, God promises that He will bring justice to the wicked, according to His perfect knowledge of what is right and what they deserve. 1 Samuel 16:7 God looks at the heart, not the appearance.
To discern whether it’s good for me to interact with someone, Matt 7:15-20 is powerful for me; discern people by what they do and the results of their lives. If it’s bad, they are bad. If it’s good, they are good. And beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing. Before the spath, I really didn’t understand the power in this explanation and admonition.
Not,
I totally agree. I thought it was the end of the world when I was discarded. It turns out that it was the best thing , the best gift he ever gave to me. Him and his little co worker gave me my life back. I have so many opportunities to do the things that were never possible before. I can now go to church as often as I wAnt to and I can now sleep 8 hours of peaceful, rejuvenating rest. And I don’t have to look at his angry face anymore or try to please him. Which was never enough anyhow. Isn’t it wonderful in a way to be thrown in the garbage at first, then bring able to crawl out, rid yourself of the dirt, clean up and start new? My counselor told me how hard it would be at first , how emotionally and financially challenging the divorce will be. So true, but all that does not compare to lies and disrespect and abuse I endured. In the end it all happened for a reason. And to this day I truly believe that the reason was God wanting me to have peace and sanity. And that’s what my ex accomplished with the discard. I am still thankful he was so weak to fall for that young cop who called him hot and sexy. By now she might have added the word evil to it.
I wish I could sleep. I have so much anger it keeps me awake. I really need to be back in church
Check out Psalm 127:2. I don’t think God wants you to prolong your suffering by paying attention to your ex’s insults. Consider if it’s time for you to move on to something better. You’re worth more than what this sadist says to you, and it’s all lies anyway.
You are so right – it’s way better and more fun to be in church than reading some demon possessed loser’s insultiEng emails.
You are right to feel anger. You were betrayed by someone who did wrong. God feels anger, and Jesus felt anger when he was a human being, so He knows how you feel. Remember Ephesians 4:26, it’s ok to feel angry when you’ve been wronged, just don’t let the feeling lead you to doing the wrong thing. And don’t let the sun go down on your anger. I have found that when I pray for God to relieve me of my anger, He does so and I feel better. If you are ready and want to let go of it. Remember Romans 12:19, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” That is a promise from God that he will bring justice to the one’s who have harmed you. You don’t have to worry about it, you will be avenged by God in His time.
And check out Psalm 58, especially 58:10 “The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked,” That’s another promise from God – you’ve got that to look forward to. God has it covered; you can get some rest while He takes care of things for you. We just need to be patient.
And Psalm 27 is a good one, too. God knows exactly how you feel, and He is going to do something about it.
Not
Thank you for the great explanation. As always I value your responses. You are absolutely correct, the ex made his decision, he walked away from God. I am so sorry to hear about what your ex has done on your daughters life. I think even though my son is probably hurting to have lost his father , he remains strong and consistent in the no contact. He laughs about the ridiculous messages the ex sends him about once a month or so. He wants to keep his phone no (because of friends and college ) and in a way he wants the father to know “hey, I am getting your messages but you are not worthy enough to be responded to”. Just the other day he got a text saying “I don’t want you to graduate college with a bunch of debt, but at the the same time I am not paying your tuition “. I am so blessed to know that my son is smart enough to recognize the manipulation and the control that message contains. So he ignores them . After all my son had to testify against his father in my defense in that inkunction case.
And yes you are so right about the good work of my attorney. I don’t want to ever undo the great outcome of my divorce. And that’s why I remain no contact. Yes it is satan, the enemy reaching out to my son. But we both are so strong in our faith , the enemy had no chance. He used to but those times are over. I don’t invite the devil in my house anylonger.
Ironic
How interesting. My ex used to take me on day trips to the Florida Everglades all the time. It would have probably solved all his problems if one of the alligators would have gotten to me. Then he would have had the house, the son and all the money.
Glad I stopped going at the end. (It was only a few miles from the home). I became suspicious when I was left in a kajak once by him and I had to find my way back on my own….,,,
I am so glad that I divorced this monster. Who knows where I would have ended up?? I always knew he has no conscience. That’s why he loved being in the army and deployed so much. He was able to be his true self and did not need an act or cover up.
Kaya48
I’ll definitely run if he suggests the reptile park!
What a twat your ex was leaving you there… I’m now walking with a registered bush walking club so I feel safe and he’s not aware of it.