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Getting inside the head of the abusive mentality

By Steve Becker, LCSW, CH.T

Editor’s note: The author has a private psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and clinical consulting practice in New Jersey, USA. For more information, visit his website, powercommunicating.com.

Let’s get inside the head of the abusive mentality. But first let’s define abuse. Abuse in a relationship reflects a pattern(s) of behavior that is manifestly (or passive-aggressively) bullying, demeaning, manipulative, intimidating, threatening, coercive, and/or restrictively controlling.

The key word is pattern. Most non-abusive individuals perpetrate insensitivities from time to time that may be experienced as abusive. This may make the behavior abusive. But it is the pattern of behaviors that makes the individual abusive.

What do we know about abusive personalities? We know that they are controlling. Then again, aren’t most of us controlling at times? Sometimes very? What, then, separates your garden variety controlling personality from an abusively controlling personality? The answer, fundamentally, is motive. Where the motive is to coerce—to remind one’s partner who’s in charge—this suggests the machinations of the abusive mentality.

What else do we know about abusers? We know that underlying their “requests” is often the lurking threat, “Cooperate with me”¦or else!” The subtext is, “You don’t want to disappoint me. Consequences will follow from your disappointing me!” In other words, appeals that may seem reasonable on the surface are often, beneath the surface, less appeals than warnings, demands.

Let me stress: Abusive individuals rarely makes requests. More often, they make demands disguised as requests. When you frustrate their demands, you are defying them. There is no middle ground: either you are cooperative and accomodating, or else perceived as defiant. Their thinking goes something like this:

I’m asking you to stop hanging out with that guy.

Translation: I demand that you stop hanging out with that guy. I expect you to meet my demand. Less than your full compliance with my demand means that you are defying me, Your defiance of me is punishable.

The abusive person, in this case, doesn’t just want things; he or she feels entitled to what he or she wants. Again, the thinking:

I want.

Translation: I must have. I’m entitled to have!

As in all narcissistic/sociopathic disturbances, an inflated self-entitlement informs, indeed drives, the abusive mentality. Not only do abusers feel entitled to what they want, but also how they want it, and when and where they want it.

Merely by virtue of their wanting it, abusive individuals will feel automatically entitled to your cooperation, undivided attention, compassion, tolerance, respect, compliance, admiration, you name it. And because they feel entitled to these things, they feel they don’t have to earn any of them.

This, of course, is the very nature of entitlement. Theirs are unearned privileges, yet their unearned status in no way diminishes the abusers’ perceived right to them.

The abuser’s rage feeds off his or her sense of entitlement. He or she thinks:

I want this.

Translation: I am entitled to it. You owe me what I’m entitled to. If you withhold it, I’m entitled to be enraged. In my entitled rage, I’m not responsible for my destructive, abusive response!

The abusive clients with whom I’ve worked are consistently stubborn, dug-in rationalizers. They chronically see themselves as victims. Their sense of themselves as victims is deeply entrenched and invested. They may feel “the victim” of many, many things, including being inconvenienced.

It is from their self-engendered victim status that blame flows so naturally; from blame, the anger/rage; from the anger/rage, the rationalization of aggressive/abusive responses.

It’s also the case that once abusive individuals have established a pattern of their self-perceived victimization, their threshold for feeling subsequently victimized decreases; now, it takes less and less for them to feel victimized, perhaps only a minor disappointment or frustration. This is why many abusive individuals can find almost any basis to complain, to feel slighted, thereby tripping (and licensing) their abusiveness.

Abusive individuals, at bottom, feel entitled not to be burdened by whatever feels burdensome to them. It is your job, your responsibility, to alleviate their burden. Your failure to do so, from their self-centered perspective, is an abdication of your duty, a form of betrayal.

Not surprisingly, many abusive individuals tend to think in paranoid and problematically rigid ways. They tend to rigidly attribute malice to those who disappoint them. Deploying spectacular powers of rationalization and projection, they see themselves ironically (and, of course, conveniently) habitually as victim—as the betrayed, exploited party—a warped perception that ratchets up their anger, lubricating their impending abusive response.

Sometimes underlying abandonment issues (including borderline personality disorder) fuel the possessive/controlling behaviors of abusive individuals. In such cases, their thinking chain goes something like this:

Don’t leave me.

Translation: Alone, I am nothing! For this reason, you can’t leave me! If you leave me, you will be defying me. If you defy me, I’ll make you pay!

Here again we see how the abusive individual automatically codifies the failure of a partner’s compliance as “defiance,” which, in the abuser’s eyes, justfies the forthcoming mean, vindictive, abusive response.

From a gender standpoint it is clear that men have no patent on abuse. Women, like men, can be abusive in their relationships—to their partners, children and others. But men are better leveraged, in general, to exercise their abuse more harshly and dangerously, if for no other reason than their comparative physical strength advantage over women. There are many exceptions to this rule; but the rule holds as a generality. Accordingly, you’ll find more women seeking (and desperately needing) shelter from abusive men than men from abusive women.

What percentage of abusive individuals are out and out sociopaths? There is disagreement on this question. Clearly many abusive personalities meet the criteria for sociopathic personality, and many who don’t nevertheless share with the sociopath the alarming tendency (in their actively abusive states) to view others as objects whose principal purpose on earth is to meet their needs, however excessive, inappropriate, unilateral and selfish.

In other words, at the heart of both relationship abuse and sociopathy is an exploitative process in which one individual’s utter, contemptuous lack of respect for another enables the former’s self-justified exploitation/abuse of the latter.

In this sense, when abusive individuals are unleashing their abusiveness, they are objectifying, and demeaning, their victims in much the same (if not identical) way as sociopaths.


Great Post Donna, I am wondering if anyone can comment on STEALTH ABUSE, which I know other posters have also endured.

My PSN posed as the perfect dedicated family man, provider etc, but there was always a looming financial crisis that only he could solve. He would create a crisis, ( with lots of excuses that made him the victim) then watch me agonize, then fix, then be lauded as the family saviour, be generous, blow the money and start over with the sme loop. This is the stuff I knew about and dragged him to therapy about, and discussed nite after nite.

Now, six months out and NC I am uncovering HUGE amounts of money he was pilfering, (from a company of which I was president and he manager – we worked together on it, guess who manged the $$) while claiming we had no $$ for food, mortgage, tuition etc. During the period we were rolling our own cigarettes to save $$, he was absconding with tens of thousands on a regular basis.

It now seems to me that he was secretly enjoying watching my anxiety, deliberatly destabalizing my sense of security, (and my high school aged kids) while stealing the funds to prepare for the eventual discard. A yes, he is the master of the long deal.

My point is, this type of behavior gets him to have it both ways, idealized and feared as the flawed and victimized family “provider”- worshipped and thanked when he “comes through” – all of this a false reality, while secretly feathering his own nest and pursuing his own agenda – on every level I might add.

He was very careful not to appear controlling on minor stuff- and not jealous ( turns out he likes men) – but always kept me thinking we were about to die (financially) and made sure I had no resources in order to leave.

What a wasted way to live a life! How full his head must of been ( and still is ) of all his evel and manipulative schemes.

I wonder what the stats are on how abusive people end up in their waning years. Likely very alone and angry at the world for “leaving” them.

Meanwhile – should we seek justice or walk away? Presently I am pursuing some justice,..wish me luck. They did not send live Phirana’s to him at the office for no good reason, back in the day.

Hugs to all,

WOW, great post! Thanks Dr. Steve!

Whether a person’s “psychopathic check list” points scores enough to enable a “legal diagnosis” of psychopath or not, the old “if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck” cliche seems to apply here—the abuser is an aubser is an abuser, regardless of whether they are a Psychopath or not. All psychopaths are abusers, but not all abusers are psychopaths but sometimes act like one. QUACK QUACK–it’s a DUCK!!! LOL

Eyes wide shut, I wish I could answer your question about whether or not you can or should “seek justice”—my late husband had some corporate raiders take over his company and totally RAPE it. He spent the next 7 years and every dime he had (this was before we married) trying to get “justice” and ended up getting only the empty shells of the company back, worth ZILCH. He would NOT give up he was so enraged, but if he had just blown it off and gotten on with life he might have used those 7 years much more productively. Eventually one of the Ps went to prison for ANOTHER fraud, not the defrauding my husband, but sometimes it just isn’t worth the trouble and expense, but that is not for ME to even think about deciding, it is all up to you since it is your “ox that is gored.” That is partly what the Ps count on as the legal system is stacked AGAINST convicting a fraud.

When I was going through the paperwork on my husband’s situation years later, it was OBVIOUS that they had committed fraud but they knew how to use the legal system to cover it up in COURT. It didn’t matter how illegal or immoral it WAS it was how it APPEARED in court. Good luck, I do hope you get some justice, you certainally deserve it.

I think, juust MHO, that many of them end up like my mother, alone and bitter, having “used up” any relationships that they have, but others, if they have enough money may at least “keep up a front” of not being miserable and alone. Some are like the “winner” in the old country and western song where two guys at a bar are talking and the “winner” is an old man without teeth, one eye poked out and both ears bitten off in fights, but he “WON” them all! LOL Sometimes it just doesn’t pay to get in the fight even if you “win” in the end, it just takes too much out of you. So sometimes the Ps I think end up “the winner” but I’d rather not “win” if that’s the case. LOL

This article is detailed and to the point. What I noticed with my EX is he never let his guard down. Always portrayed himself the GOOD GUY, responsible, caring, loving, intelligent, considerate, would never do anything negative to anyone, it was “he and I together, thick or thin, good times and bad”. To find out in my horror, everything he told me was a lie. He He used my focusing on my suit against my managers to play me for everything I was worth … stating it was my managers doing this to me and him because he was my fiance and they knew he was standing by me, backing me … so their wrath extended to him to divide and conquer us, get him away from me so I would have to go solo on my suit, no one supporting or backing me up, building me up, protecting me. Made perfect sense at the time and of course I believed and trusted him and couldn’t see the reality until months after it ended. He kissed me goodbye for what I thought was another business trip, taking with him thousands of dollars worth of my possessions telling me he was going to use them and what was the difference, he’d be back in September after this business deal was completed. That was the last time I saw him … kissing me in front of my house as he tooled down the street – a thief – knowing and playing the system for everything it was worth. Analyzing everything after the fact, hindsight is 20/20 … he is the second eldest of siblings. His sister is the oldest, then two more male siblings after him. I believe it’s the hierarchy of the family unit where he was able to start living from his ego. Controlling the younger siblings and either being real with his older sister, siding with her to control the other two. Going from the family unit to grade school friends, high school, college, then the workplace, always keeping that superior attitude of being the 2nd oldest and the oldest son. I believe parents do not pay attention to this rivalry or control issue starting in the family unit. I believe parents, due to their busy schedule of work and maintaining the home and family allow this controlling pattern to develop in the family making it easier on the parent’s busy schedules (aka older siblings taking care of younger siblings). I think most families think this is “normal” for older children of a family to “control” and take care of the “younger” siblings in a family and this is where the Narcissism stems from.

Do we blame them for acting the way they were trained since childhood? Why wasn’t this behavior stopped at an earlier age?

I see a lot of “pot holes” in the system. From the school system pushing them through and stroking their personalities (aka the “golden boy/girl” oldest in the family, to the churches, to the immediate family unit.

I think this is why what we call “abusers” have no clue what we are talking about. Their abusive behavior was instilled and conditioned in them since childhood. What family gets a “how to” manual when starting their family? The churches do not hand this out, the government doesn’t hand this out, the schools don’t hand this out. Every sector is saying “that’s not my call” or hand it over to this office, or that office … and you are in the endless loop of who does what.

I also believe that my managers and my fiance all played me to get what they wanted. There were too many things that only my fiance knew directly from my mouth to his ears … that my managers ended up knowing. After I retired, I found one of my manager’s business cards in my fiance’s attache case. Why did and how did he have this business card?

As for the experience of going through a suit against anti-social personalities. It was the most devastating
experience in my life. You are forced to have that evil penetrate ever pore of your being, day in and day out until the resolution. Even after it’s over, it takes years for that evil being released from your pores and your mind. I do not recommend this abuse for anyone. But, if you have to file suit, do what I did. Read your Bible every day. Pray every day and have God in your corner. Reading the word and praying to God was the only positive in my life during this most horrible of ordeals.

Peace.

Today I was driving home and got behind a slow moving tractor trailer truck and for some reason I remembered a movie that I never forgot as a child. The movie was called “Duel” The movie came out in 1971 and was Steven Spielberg’s film debut. The plot of the movie is…. While traveling through the desert for an appointment with a client, the businessman David Mann (Dennis Weaver) from California passes a slow and old tanker truck. The psychotic truck driver feels offended and chases David along the empty highway trying to kill him….. I remember one image shot in the movie is the front license plate of the truck is made up of all the other cars the truck had wrecked….We never see the face of the man who drives the truck, nor do we know why he is intent on killing David Mann… but the terror of being chased and hunted down by someone who remains faceless, and without knowing his motive has stuck in my conscience for all of these years…..In fact while watching the movie, I almost forgot that there was a man who was trying to kill Mann.. to me it was the truck that was evil….I remember for a couple of years after that everytime my sister and I were in the car with our parents, and we passed a old looking truck, we’d remember that movie and be sort of scared of the truck…..Spielberg went on to direct another movie a few years later about a killer without motive, without conscience… the movie was “Jaws”……. sorry to have got off subject.. but for those of you that have ever seen “Duel” you would not forget it….Even as a child of 9 years old when I saw it, I remember thinking “why” did that trucker want to kill Mann…. and that’s the thing I remember most about that movie… a killer without a motive, or at least one that we’d understand…. I think it was really the first time I had ever seen sociopathic behaviour….and even though it was a movie, I never forgot the anxiety I felt as a child when I watched that movie…… anyone else remember that movie?

southernman429: Because “they” are living from their egos and not being humble (which allows you to be in touch with your emotions) is the reason why all the games are perpetrated on society. They look at us (with emotions) as odd little toy soldiers to move and play anything they want. When the game bores them … like a child being frustrated (called a temper tantrum) they swipe the board … and all the pieces (aka us) going flying across the room (aka the WORLD).

I don’t remember if I saw that particular movie (I most likely did see it) but I do remember the movie about the truck driver tying a woman up between his truck and another’s … as they were about to pull her literally limb from limb.

What I am observing is that anti-socials aren’t creative individuals in their own right … always replicating their MOs from movies, books, TV, MTV, videos etc. Taking bits and pieces from here and there to do their damage on others. Only those living a humble life (God’s way) can go into the “now” and be creative … receiving directly from the God source.

Peace.

I totally remember “Duel”, Southernman, and I’ve watched it a few times since the first time, even though it is a difficult, extremely discomfiting movie to view.

I think to me it conveys the evil incarnate that dwells in the minds of psychopathic strangers. Here you are driving down the road, all of the sudden a person cuts you off. You’re shaken and angry over the complete disregard for your safety by such carelessness so what do you do? Make an angry gesture at the drive. He/she then decides to make you pay. And pay…..dearly.

It’s so dangerous to react to any strange person’s negligence, irrational behavior perpetrated towards you, especially when that person is behind the wheel of a massive vehicle. They then use their vehicle as a weapon. Scary.

About 10 years ago, I was on the freeway and I slowed down to let a driver in my lane from the on ramp. 3 people behind me in a beat up old truck, started honking and riding my bumber. I gave them the universal “you’re no 1” sign, which was so stupid, careless of me to do, and that’s when the driver of the truck started chasing me. I was terrified. I was speeding on the freeway, trying to get away and he was following me with every desperate move I made. I eventually cut across lines and fled down an off ramp. He stayed on the freeway.

I learned a serious lesson that day. I’ve never reacted to vicious drivers again. I just mind my own business, and smile so as not to anger a potential vengeful psycho.

Thanks for the post, Donna & Steve. It truly astounds me at the intense malevolency of the patterned abusers sick, twisted mind. I consider it important to learn as much as I can regarding abusive people, but it doesn’t make it any easier for me to understand, and accept their motivations. I just don’t think like that and I don’t want to.

Here’s a link to watch the movie online for free…. I rewatched it this afternoon, and those old scary feelings came right back…lol… all in good fun..those chase scenes are still intense…..In one scene, the truck driver sticks his arm out the cab of his truck and waves Mann to come on and pass him.. as Mann pulls into the left lane of a two lane highway, he nearly hits a oncomming car head on… Mann jerks his car back in line behind the truck, and in that moment he knows the trucker is trying to kill him…whew.. JaneSmith, you’d be surprised at how well the movie holds up to time.. hard to believe it’s 37 years old.

http://www.classiccinemaonline.com/cinema/suspense-thriller/duel.html

I think the mental health community should experiment with known anti-socials to find out (I’ll volunteer mine, I can give you his address and I’m not LOL):

1. If what Tolle wrote explaining how to quiet yourself, go into the “now” can be taught to them by mental health professionals monitoring that they do it correctly.

2. Being court ordered that they give up their egos and pray to God to bring them closer to him. After this … letting them read the Bible, having them attend Bible classes daily, while incarcerated.

All this is by being incarcerated because incarceration is a must … they won’t do it on there own like the rest of us can. So being confined is a must here … no home arrest with ankle bracelets on these cartoon characters. Then professionals in touch with their emotions monitor their every move and advancement.

Peace.

Wini, my exN was such a HARD MAN, I dont think anything would permeate his ego, not even the threat of death. He didnt seemed to be bothered about anything. Even when he told me that a woman in a car nearly knocked him off his bike, I was more concerned than he was. Problem is Wini, alot of antisocials live BELOW the law. He works in the security business, so he has to keep his nose clean, that was one of the things that I thought he must be ok, because he doesnt have a record and all his friends said he was decent. I really sounded him out at the beginning, I was really cautious Wini – but I realised afterwards, that all the things that I thought were indicators of good character WERE NOT.

There was a programme here to say that some men in the security business have had past misdemeanours. I even went on the security website to check it!! I didnt just blindly accept him at the beginning, I spoke to his acquaintances who all said he was a decent bloke, his family said he was decent.

No Wini, they wont choose to do it, to let their egos down. Mine said he solves his own problems himself, when I offered him help. He didnt want to know.

Southernman, I saw that movie several times and yes, it is a scary movie.

Jane, I too have given the “universal you’re number one” sign to another motorist and I had exactly the same result you did. I was fortunate that I came on two state troopers side by side talking on the side of the road and I pulled off and gave them my tale of this nut case just as the nut case sped by at probably 90 and they took off after him, but I have NEVER NEVER in the 25 years since then given the “signal” to any other driver. This ROAD RAGE thing is scary. I can’t believe I did it the first time, but it was the LAST time I can tell you that!

Wini,

There have been plenty of attempts at various therapies from 12 step on tried with psychopaths both incarcerated and not incarcerated and it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that therapy makes them WORSE as they use it to learn new manuvers.

The problem is, Wini, you cannot nor can anyone else FORCE people to learn from even the best sermon, teaching, book, the Bible or anything else. If they do NOT want to get the good out of it you could force feed it to them 24/7 for 100 years and they would not gain a thing from it.

It is the old “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” thing. “Old sayings” are “old sayings” because they are true!

I am so glad that you got sooooo much out of Tolle’s book. For you it was a Godsend, but if you had not been receptive in mind and spirit, it would have not done you any more good than reading it in Korean would have.

Viktor Frankl’s “Man’s search for meaning” was an eye opener for me, but because I was RECEPTIVE. If I had not been receptive to the message, nothing on this earth would have made me get benefit from it.

A psychopath can quote scripture with the best of them, or philosophy, but it isn’t memorizing the lines that makes the difference, it is internalizing the CONCEPTS and the feelings that go with them.

Psychopaths have brains that by the time they are recognized as psychopathicly disordered are SET IN CONCRETE. God COULD force us all to obey him, but He choses to give us the CHOICE. Somewhere along the line, the psychopath has made a choice that because of their attitudes is not changable. Even fear of punishment doesn’t effect them. Their narcissism and grandiosity is so ingrained by the time they are adults there is no turning back.

I don’t think that they are “set in concrete” at birth, though they have genes that point in that direction, but one thing is sure, by the time they are adults, they ARE set in concrete because they do NOT value any other opinion except their own.

My P-son was raised in the same environment with my other sons, but while all three of them are very well versed in the Bible, and the others internalized the concepts, he did not get the “concepts” he can make as good an “argument” for love as anyone, but he just can’t FEEL it. He uses his knowledge of the Bible as a cloak to cover his real evil intentions. My mother uses it to try to beat others into submission. I’m not sure my mother is actually a psychopath, but she is so dysfunctional she might as well be.

The Pharisees in the Temple actually heard Jesus speak, but they were psychopathic in their pretense of religion and holiness while they abused others financially etc. Even hearing Jesus himself speak, they became ENRAGED, not humble or listening. We all make our choices, and the Psychopaths made and make theirs and no amount of “teaching” is going to teach unless you have a willing learner. And that’s the sad part.

OMG!!!….So today is day 2 of NC. so guess what i get in my email? i got an email from the other women, telling me the truth behind there relationship, bc its something i never got from him. the things she said, some of them i already knew, but to see stuff that i didt hurts BAD. its like im numb to what i read. she told me that he took her around his family and friends…WOW i want to hate all his friends and family now, i dont know if i have a right to hate them but i do. all she wrote me was to tell me the truth, and i dont know if i should say something back to her, or just move on. reading that email just makes me hate him even more, and i never ever in my life ever want to see him again. i have found out more things that i guess in my heart ive never could image he did to me, but he did. i feel completly disgusted, i never want to see anyone that knows him again. i cant believe i wasted so much time on someone. the first time we ever broke up back in 2006 i should of never went back, but its too late for that now. i just want to know how she knows everything, she knows the lies he told me about her. how did she find out the truth? who told her bc im damn sure he didt tell her!!!… ITS MAKE ME SICK

I believe that only God can change a person…. and although I agree with you Oxy, and also with the many posts that ML and donna, and Dr.Steve has written about that there is no “cure” for sociopaths, I also believe with all of my heart that God CAN change a person, but in order to do so His methods would include breaking that person… now.. I do know that God will not force Himself upon us, it is only when we accept His gift of forgivenness that we can begin a new life submersed in His Grace…… however.. I saw something very interesting on TV a few weeks ago…..

There was a black pastor of a small southern church whose church was burned by the racist KKK group… the leader of the KKK group, later became touched by God, repented and went to see the black pastor and asked for forgivenness. the pastor wrapped his arms around the man and told him that all was forgiven… The two of them became best friends, and the former racist even preached at the pastors new church several times. They even went together and protested KKK rallies….They both traveled together for several years and preached Jesus’s message of love and forgivenness… Years later, when the pastor was in failing health, he asked to see the former racist. when the man came to see his friend in the hospital, he told the pastor that he was like a father to him. the pastor looked at him with tears in his eyes and told the man… you are the son I never had.

When I saw this story, it brought tears to my eyes, because as believers, we are to believe in miricles, and with God, all things are possible… I know that for many of us here, despite the pain and the broken trust, the devestation that our sociopaths have caused in our lives, forgivenness is the key for our healing…. and perhaps one day, if it is God’s will, maybe He work a miricle in them. I still pray for her soul most everyday. It’s something I do for her that she will never know about. and I know that perhaps I am the only person who does pray for her. She needs it!

Blondie, dear dear blondie,

I know it hurts to findout even more thanyou already knew, and the truth like that HURTS, but it an way it is better to get it out and over with so you can move on toward healing!

Just my opinion, but I would not reply to her, not for her but for YOU. Just talking about it with her I think will hurt you more and not probably do her any good either. I hope she is not still with him, but even if she is, that is up to HER. You can’t save her, only yourself.

I am glad in a way that she did send you that information, even if it did hurt, because it will help you to focus on getting him out o fyour head, rather than going back and wondering “did I do right”? Of course you did right! You got away from the so and so. He was using her and using you.

What a jerk! I am so glad for you that you found out before it went further, before you had 4 kids and a station wagon and a dog and a cat. Dear you have ESCAPED with our life! There are only good things ahead of you now! You are going to heal and to grow, and blossom, and be a P-FREE person from here on out!

Sure right now you hate him, you hate his family, you hate his neighbors, you hate his friends, but that feeling will pass, but right now it feels good to feel that way, and that’s the way we feel when we realize that someone has deliberately hurt us, for no motive we can fathom.

Take some big deep breaths and hang on, this has been a suprise blow which makes it I think hurt worse, but you’re stronger now than you were just a few days ago. You have your power back and you won’t let him reel you in again. I hope he can feel the “slack” in the line now that you have spit the HOOK OUT! He just lost the “catch of the century” YOU!!!

OxDrover, thanks for the support. im so freaking glad im out of it. in a way i thank her, she gave me answers so i can heal. it made me see even more what a loser he is. im not sure even how to start healing from this mess. i wish i would of started no contact a month ago when i left. but all i can do is look forward and stay away from him. i wonder why all this time she never emailed me. why now? ive been gone out of his life for a month now. i feel like i dont even know who iam anymore.

Blondie, Hold tight, you are going through the eye of the storm, this is one of the painful bits where we get to learn alot more of what they were up to. But the worst part is over, because he is gone and that is probably the part were you were more unaware than you are now and when it was all going on.

You will recover from this, many of us on here have, and we have returned to a relatively normal existence. What I did at the time, was not to take any action or say anything until my anger has subsided, so that I could do the right thing, which may be to do nothing. I am very impulsive, so I had to learn to be very restrained. You are not alone Blondie, you will get much support here.

Blondie.. I don’t know how many times I RE-STARTED no contact, but it was the last time I did it that I started coming out of the fog. Hang in there. You will survive this. May I suggest changing your e-mail address? I changed my phone number’s, changed all the lock’s on my house, I changed alot of thing’s. Getting through this is like taking baby step’s, but take some big step’s to enforce the no contact, a few month’s from now you will be glad you did.

Hey Blondie: How do you know it was the other woman that wrote and not him writing you from her computer? Some times, it is them doing this crapola… then again, there are women that are just as messed up as he is. Anti-socials come in all shapes, sizes, ages, sex? It’s a free for all out there today in Romper-roll-a-vista-world. It looks like they did inherit the world. (oh, oh … what if they are the meek, I’m slapping myself to wake up now).

Peace to your heart and, delete the e-mail. It’s all nonsense in the end …. anyway.

Wini, blondie, OxDrover…starting to recognize the names now….and feel a kinship.

blondie, I know how hard it is to hear more pain…layer upon layer of lies getting revealed and it just opens the wound again and you wonder if you can ever trust again or are going insane. If there is any silver lining, it is like you say – “knowing the truth so you can heal”. As to whether or not you should respond to her, were there any questions or any advantage to responding to her? If not, give it a pass. Sorry I might not know all the back story – is she still in contact with him? If yes, then it could be a ploy…it could be his manipulations.

This is the issue of my major dilemna too. My ex-P is married and I don’t think his wife has a clue (well, maybe a clue but surely not the full extent) of what she’s married too. He was my boss at work and we’ve realized he’s seduced and/or harassed over half the female staff at our office. He’s been fired (yay!) but we are still coping with the fall-out. But I can’t help but wonder if we have some responsibility to try to help his poor wife.

I can relate to “Duel”…wondering why someone would want to harm someone for no apparent reason. When I was in grade school, one of my friends and her entire family were murdered by a stranger (who said at the trial it was a whim). That experience has such an impression on me about wondering about psychopaths…ironic that I would fall in love with one.

Peace

marla: It’s not your fault. They “anti-socials” size you up in less than 10 minutes. They know who they are dealing with before they even asked you out. Did you ever notice 2 anti-socials don’t ever make it for a long period of time? If they do, they came forward with each other and played their cards … laid them all out on the table … they are what you see as an open marriage … both living under the same roof … yet taken additional lovers.

Yes, if you can help his wife out …. that would be going in the right direction. Find out if she’s in touch with her emotions. If so, have her write to this blog. She’ll learn, like we all do, by reading and discussing what’s on this site.

Peace and pamper yourself as you go through healing.

Thanks Wini. What, how do I reach out to her? She found some of our texts and thinks of me as a stalker (this is his standard line…he told me some of the other girls at work were stalkers and I later found out he was stringing them all along…it was his way of explaining why they acted possessive around him). So, I know her from work socials but now she hates me. Do I send an anonymous email, do I call her for coffee…? Or is it just me trying to drag this on and not getting over him by trying to rescue another victim?

Hi”

I have been lecturing myself about narcissism and abuse.

My story, my recent one is:

A good friend of mine (we are both females); friends for 23 years, 3 years ago asked me if I could open an account at a famous department store, she said it would help my credit score, I agreed and gave her total access to it.

She did, in fact, rise my credit score (new credit history), she bought and bought until one day, I wanted to buy something for me (under my own credit line, of course) and I was told that my credit line was “up to its limit”. I called her and sent an email asking her to please call the store and see what’s going on, she replied with an abusive and aggressive tone, something like “I am in X city, I am NOT going to call today because it would be long distance, this will have to wait until next week, etc”

I was so sad and hurt, how could one of my best’s friends could possibly own 1,000 Dlls, under MY credit line, get all these things for her, her daughter, home, etc and then get mad when I ask what’s going on, and then tell me she is not going to call and take care of this because its going to cost her (long distance call)?

I sent her an email; at this point I was mad and sad, telling her that this is not something she should do to a best friend, a friend for life, etc.

A few days later, she emails and apologizes and takes care of the issue. She doesn’t pay the bill but she stops getting stuff because its was the only solution (solution that I proposed, to keep making payments and stop using it).

Then, more than a year after this (she paid just 300 Dlls or so), I see that she gets something and I emailed her, immediately, asking her, in a nice tone, what was going on, that I could see *online* she bought something and the deal between us was to stop using it and lower the debt as much as possible; she doesn’t answer.

2 weeks later, she sends an email telling me she is going to leave the apartment (BTW, I own a condo and she was my tenant), and she is going to pay the store’s debt (she doesn’t give me reasons, she was cold and firm). I try to call her immediately because I needed to know details about the leaving my condo thing, all her phone lines were off.

I email her asking her about the keys, details, etc telling her that I am trying to call her; she didn’t give me the opportunity to talk.

She does say, in her last email, something like “I will pay the store’s bill and I will give you the card, so that I don’t use it anymore, after all, I helped YOU with your credit score”

?

basically, she was mad because in 3 years, she could do whatever she wanted, when I finally decided to get something for me, and asked her to please do something about this debt, things started to burn; she could only see her needs, her stuff, what she wants, but not mine!

This is a sad story, BUT, she is almost out my system, and this is good; we don’t need people who get furious and aggressive when things don’t go their way, it’s their lack of empathy that puts them in this space. Let me tell you, she has ended very important relationships with other friends, I am not sure why, but there is a pattern.

Money issues are very important, some people *hurt* through money.

Thanks for reading 🙂

marla, the answer will come from your heart. Don’t worry. If you know her, leave her a note and tell her to log onto this site. Preferably by handing it directly to her. FACE to FACE. You don’t have to tell her anything more. Just sign it concerned for your well being or something along that line. When she’s in pain … she’ll write in. Expect him to be keeping her in the dark and yes, he is trashing all of you and blaming you for what happened. Also expect that he will intercept the note and trash it … or make her feel foolish for believing it’s contents – if she’s one of the lucky ones that even gets to read your note. They are good at manipulating and keeping everyone at a safe distance away from each other and not allowing the main person to really get their mail or phone calls or e-mail. They hover over you like a hawk readying for the kill. So don’t be surprised if nothing comes from your attempts to get her to open her eyes.

In the future, DO NOT DATE married or men who are assigned with another. It’s not a compliment when a married or engaged man seek you out. It is blatant arrogance and nothing more than building up their egos. Which is big enough … if you sit and read the posts on this blog from start to finish you’ll will come to this conclusion on your own. In the mean time, be good to yourself. It’s not your fault. Stay in touch with everyone on this blog. They’ll help you out as you going through your pain.

Peace to you as you heal. You’ll get through the pain…the truth will set you free.

Dear WINE close the account ASAP and dumped her … she’s NO friend. She’s giving you LIP service and nothing else. Only pretending to be your friend to stick you with all the bills. Do not write or call her … and if you have money to hire an attorney… DO so tomorrow. Don’t wait on this. She’s a user, big time. READ the blog of all the posts and documentations.

Good luck – and take this advice.

the more i find out about the bad man X, the more i see that he never once cared about me ever. he talks so bad about me behind my back. of course he denies caring for me, and he denies what he did. he even makes it out that he broke up with me, and that he is the one that doest want to be with me anymore!

He is one person in front of my face and to my ears, but then he is someone else when im not around. he tells me one story and tells other people another story. he cheated and lived a double life for two years and he is breaking up with me goodd!! its never his fault. i just never want to talk to him again, there is nothing to ever say ever again. i also hope i never see him again, he is just an evil fake person

Thank you Wini. It sounds like you have come to a good place of peace and understanding. For sure, I learned the hard way about married men (psychopaths or not!). Not again. At the time I was married too, so he was able to position it as it was the first affair for us both because we were so meant to be (GAG!)

We’ll see about talking to the wife. Many of us who have been affected just keep praying for the “for sale” sign to go up in front of his house. Like you say, “listen to your heart” _ i know that one day the answer whether to reveal to his wife or not will become clear, and in the meantime I need to focus on my own healing.

Thanks for caring and responding. This is like society’s “dirty little secret” and I wish we weren’t just cyberfriends

Dear Marla,

There is an older thread here about “should I tell the next victim” (or the wife or whatever) Please read that entire thread and the blogs and answers before you make up your mind to tell the wife. It is one of those dicy situations and many times does’t help the victim at all. I have in the past been warned about Ps and ignored those warnings to my regret later, but you have to be the one to make up your mind, but I do suggest reading that thread before you do anything. It has some good thoughts there.

Wine, your “friend” is a confidence person (con-man) and you fell into her trap. You wil probably end up paying the bill yourself in order not to ruin your credit completely. She took you for a ride from the first! It was for HER “benefit” not yours that she got you to open the charge account. While it may have “helped” your credit score, it won’t if it isn’t paid, and my guess is that SHE isn’t going to pay it….after all, you OWE her for helping your credit? Right? WRONG, but that’s the way she will see it. Boy, can they rationalize black to white and back again!

I know it hurts to be betrayed by what you thought was a good friend, and be ripped off in the process, but you know, SHE is the ultimate looser, SHE lost a REAL FRIEND, all you lost was a BLOOD SUCKER and some $$$$. I know that may not be a lot of consulation, but it’s probably all you’ll get from the likes of her. Good riddence!

Marla,

I did warn the current target of the former S in my life. I have facts, evidence, details. I sent it in a letter in my own handwriting with all my contact information. I asked her not to tell the S as had already admitted to being homicidal towards me.

She did not respond. I have wondered if she even got it. I did get an email from the S who is not supposed to have contact with me. He wrote that if I care about her to leave her alone now as she is done with him. He thanked me for doing what he “didn’t have the balls to do”. That was a lie because they are still together. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to see through that email. I guess he thinks he can still con me. Not a chance!

The day after she received the letter my former computer was hacked, my IP address was hijacked and it was down for a couple of days. When it was suddenly back up and I could get online I went to a website where she has a blog and low and behold she’s not there. He is not aware that I know her screen name. I went onto my roomate’s computer and there she is in broad daylight. He is a computer guru and somehow had blocked me from being able to see her on that sight so I would not be able to find her and contact her. That is isolating the victim.

When he discovered that I knew where she lived her phone number was suddenly unpublished. But I already had the number. Her last name was also dropped from her blog. Again, he didn’t know that I already knew her screen name. Now even though I can see it from another computer her picture avatar is gone. I guess this was insurance should I figure out what he did to my computer. He is hiding her. But it is her account and I don’t think he’s doing these things without her consent.

So he probably has her connedd that I’m that crazy one to stay away from and the liar. He’s tried that with everyone else. Those who know me know he’s sick but she doesn’t know me. So if I tell her that he’s doing all this to isolate her from me on purpose, as I hold the truth, she will know that I am aware of her screen name on the website and know her phone number. Instead of understanding that I waited for some time to pass before actually contacting her (which I chose to do in my own handwriting and was hoping he’d cracked somehow already so she would be open to what I had to say) she will probably believe the smear campaign he’s set up against me. I can do no more unless I want to look like a stalker. She wouldn’t understand that I found out information so I could figure out how to break the truth to her.

It is a dilemna of what to do with the next victim. Warn them or not. But I say if you can do so safely follow your heart as Wini says. I did and perhaps one day when he will inevitably crack, she will get it. Perhaps if she got the letter it will have planted a seed. I don’t know. I realize that I did what I could and now I pray for her.

Take care of yourself and know that there is a point of peace that we reach admist the pain and after the pain.

Marla, Oxy sent you a post too. I haven’t read what she’s referring to, but I suggest you listen to her advice before mine. As for the anti-socials out there around the globe … if they all glowed SLIME GREEN we’d be horrified how they out number us (those in touch with our emotions). I think the statistics are wrong … cause they don’t want to freak us all out.

Peace.

Wine,

Did this take place in the atlanta area?.. your story sounds very much like someone I know of… and if it is the same person, then Oxy is right.. she’s a con-man/woman…

Thank you to you all,

This took place in anothe State and yes, I am not emailing/calling her.

She wants to meet to give me the keys (condo) but when she does contact me again, to return the keys, I will just reply something like “no need to meet, etc”.

As I am changing the locks

I hope she pays the bill (credit), and I think whe will, if she does, good, if she doesnt, good; the good thing is that I am worth way more than 1000 dlls; and I have other dear friends who would never, ever do this to me!

Thank you so much!

Wine, the only thing you need to show this woman is the back of you as you walk away. Whether she’s anti-social or not, she still used you. Shame on her. Shame on all of them.

Boy, I wanted to say that for so long… the shame on you part.

Peace.

southernman: You’re from Atlanta? That’s where my EX lived in a house that I took the mortgage out … and he had foreclosed as he was living with another woman that he proposed to while being engaged to me telling me it was my bosses doing this to me to get me to drop my suit. Destroyed my excellent credit. Sh – thead. That Georgia state … it’s another magnet for psychos.

Dear Wine, I NEVER mix friendship and money. I once borrowed one hundred pounds from a friend when I was in a fix and returned it two days later and I hated the feeling of being subservient to a friend. I borrowed money from my mother once and she never let me forget it for years and years. I know that if I was desperate I could turn to various people for money, but I would never ever. The reason the theft of money from a person feels so personal, is because is it part of our personal energy – if someone takes your money, they take a part of you. But why oh why would you want to hand it to them on a plate – unfortunately, people have different values, like Oxy’s neighbour who agreed to rent her land, he ended up taking advantage, some people ‘forget’ the duty, the responsibility and the original agreement.

As Wini says ‘Shame on them’ for taking advantage of your good nature and friendship, no wonder she doesnt want to face you, she is in shame and doesnt want to own up.

yep.. there are plenty here… sometimes I think they out number the healthy ones. Most of the people I know who are single in their forties, have a story about someone in their past who has some sort of personality disorder….. As far as being a victim, well I am in good company, although I’m past thinking in a victim mentality…. but at least when I tell my story, there are plenty around here who can relate. Perhaps a move is in order….smiles

eyeswideshut,
The xs was adopted- I think a “long lost brother,” might have found you. Your story parallels mine. This especially caught me,
“My point is, this type of behavior gets him to have it both ways, idealized and feared as the flawed and victimized family “provider”- worshipped and thanked when he “comes through” – all of this a false reality, while secretly feathering his own nest and pursuing his own agenda – on every level I might add.”

The xs fancied himself a multi-millionaire entrepaneur- unfortunately I didn’t make enough money for him to steal and misappropriate millions- I’m sure THAT was MY fault too!

I didn’t pursue justice for the fraud he committed against me (although I WOULD like to pursue a class-action lawsuit against his mother. She’s been knowingly endangering the community with her unfailing enabling since 1991.) If she had allowed him to “take his medicine,” atleast 3 young girls would have not been raped by him, including mine. I pursued justice for my daughter, the money didn’t really matter anymore. He is in prison now- where he belongs. Not long enough, of course, but for now.

Dear Southernman429, the woman who let you down doesnt deserve you. Please dont think that because ‘she’ brought you to your knees that you are unworthy – I have read your posts before, and you sound like a man with a gentle wholesome integrity – what a gift.

Not half an hour ago, driving through town, I was a cat’s whisker away from him, I would never hurt another human being, but I could so easily have run him over, goodness that altered the power base.

Beverly,

You are right, money is not about money per se, but about feelings and an extention of who/what we are; abusers are not agressive becuase of the money issues (lack of it, problems to pay, etc), but becuase of *feelings* issues.

And yes! they dont take away money, they take away our discipline, effort, etc; the way they treat money is a reflection of how they treat themeslves and relationships.

thanks!

Dear Wine, You see that reality, when you hear about a person who steals from their mother, steals from her purse. They are not really stealing money, they are really trying to steal the love they think they were entitled to.

Beverly, Oxy, Wine and Every one: Those living in their egos do things to others because they don’t believe in God. If they did, they would know God provides all of us with everything you need. If you want more, ask God. God will give you whatever it is that you want. That’s what the “be careful for what you ask for, you just may get it” comes from.

My EX is a very creative and talented individual. All gifts from God. He could do anything he ever wanted to in life himself but he doesn’t believe and trust in God. That is why he tramples over people, stealing and lying and conning to get what he wants. It’s incredible. But that’s him living from his ego. He did steal my Bible, so I’m praying that the big ego reads it. I know he’s reading up on the word because his wife is an avid church goer and he wants to pretend he’s a good Christian man … going through the paces to keep her under his thumb. Guess what, if he is reading the word of God … God’s words will reach into his very soul. So I’m sitting back and watching from a distance … how God is going to cure him of his big ego. Actually, he should be wearing an orange jumpsuit down there in Texas and have mental health counselor’s guiding him towards God. A few years of being hand spooned God’s wisdom would suffice. Then going before a board of those that believe in God to get their release into society … going to half way houses run by people who believe in God … spoon feeding them the righteous paths to take in life … having them to work in Children’s hospitals around the world to see those young spirits and what they are enduring … then gently work their way back into society … with no stigma … no looking down our noses because their egos got carried away with them. All step by step processes with God’s light shining on them … step by step. And get all those living from their big egos out of these positions and sending them back to read the word of God. Enough is enough already folks we are all children of God – not children of EGOs. We all have to face the fact and accept God as our creator and the reason we even have life. Putting no other gods before him. Other gods equal egos.

Peace.

Peace.

Peace.

Wini, they fence themselves up against further hurt. Isnt that what it is about? And they feel ANGER at what was done to them, so they want to kick out?

What perspective do we choose to take here? If we are sympathetic doesnt mean there is a danger of letting them back in. We can still be compassionate and understanding but exclude them from our energy field. When we have alot of bravado (and I have alot of bravado) people know they can wiggle their way back in. What is the right stance?

i have this old friend that i got back into touch with after all this drama passed. when we are just chatting everything is fine. but recently he started to become controlling. and the things he does are so weird and obviously controlling. if you put up with it at all you just get more of the same stuff.

Beverly, we are doing it already. We are giving it up to God and letting God handle it and God will/is guiding us as we go through this process. All on his time frame remember, his time frame, not ours. We pray for God to handle our problems and God takes over. We trust God … and that’s the bottom line. God already gives all of us what we need. We have to trust God and be humble servants of God’s.

When I went through that lawsuit … it was God and I sitting there. I knew it. That’s why God handled the situation all I had to do was go along for the ride. Do you know to this very day, I have never read all the letters written against me? Wouldn’t have done any good for me to read them … because all those situations were tweaked by egos and placing others in the situations to be reacting from their egos. I trusted God in getting me through the process. Now, what all the egos did during that suit – will be dealt with on God’s time frame, not mine. I trust God to handle all this too. Just by us logging on to this blog is God’s guiding us to get together to discuss issues and come together (community). Just by Donna creating the website is God’s guiding her to do this.

So we hand it over to God and God will guide us in our hearts and souls what is righteous. Righteous means good for you and good for every one. No tweaking the equations on this one (e.g. good for you and good for some – not righteous, good for everyone but yourself – not righteous). Good for you and Good for everyone = righteous.

Peace.

gennyrabbit: Read this blog start to finish. You’ll find the answers to the truth you are seeking. Professionals are listed on the left side of the screen. Write to them if you get stumped with any professional questions. Write to the blog in getting opinions of how we dealt with our confusion and pain, which has already been written. For now, stay away from him.

Peace.

Dear gennyrabbit,

Good to see you back dear! Missed you!

Wine, there are people all over the world who will take advantage of your good nature, for “loans” that they never intend to pay back, or if they did intend to in the first part, they find some reason to get “mad at” you and “punish you” (justifiably of course) by not paying you back, because somehow they construe that you owe THEM!

I’m like Beverly, I try not to mix friendship with money, and if I do “loan” money to someone, I NEVER EXPECT IT BACK, if it DOES come back great, if not, I am not disappointed.

Years and years ago I gave my last and I mean Last $200 to a friend who NEEDED IT DESPERATELY, and I told her at the time, pay it back when you can. But from that day forward she kept finding ways to get mad at me. Eventually in about 3 or 4 months she blew me off. I stood in my back yard and cried and cried at her blowing me off, not about the money at all. But then I realized that this woman that I loved so much had LOST A FRIEND, ME—and I had lost nothing of value, because she never was MY FRIEND.

Friends like I am a friend are sooo VERY rare and to “throw away” a friendship like mine for a miserable $200 dollars shows that that person had and has NO appreiciation for the finer things in life–FRIENDS.

True friends are like the “pearl without price” spoken of in the Bible, when you find one, you should guard it with your life! What else do we have ultimately in this world but the people that love us and that we love? We can’t take money with us to the beyond, we can take only LOVE.

It astounds me that some people (who are not otherwise Ps) do not value friendship to the extent that I do, do not value human connection to the extent that I do. They will show disrespect and uncaring to someone over something so tirvial that it isn’t worth a jot!

Learning to recognize the fact that I care more for someone else than they care for me without that recognition being overwhemingly painful has been a hurdle for me to over come. Learning that this lack of caring on their part is not about unworthiness on mine but about different value systems, has helped me to realize that lack of caring in them is not lack of value in me. Just like with my “friend” and the $200. I would have done ANYTHING for her, she would have done nothing for me because I cared much more for her than she did for me.

It is the same with the Ps, I would have done anything to have “saved” my son or my mother, but they did not care for me. They lost big time. I lost nothing of substance. Yet, I grieved like I had lost the world. But at the time of my intense grief it FELT like I had lost the world, even though it was only an ILLUSION of their love. Stepping back away from it all, just as I can with the “friend” and the $200 so very many years ago, I feel absolutely no pain from that memory, and I feel no anger, or hatred, that memory of me standing there crying as she drove away is no longer painful at all. I know that there will come a day when I can completly look back at the last few years and feel that same detachment, that same lack of emotion and that same peace in myself, it is just going to take some time. I’m actually getting there by baby steps and because I had more of a “connection” to my mother and more to my son than I did to my “friend” it will probably take more time for them than for her, but it WILL get there eventually if I live long enough.

Ox,

Thank you for the detailed advice, what you say it’s true:

“”will take advantage of your good nature, for ’loans’ that they never intend to pay back, or if they did intend to, they find some reason to get ’mad at’ you and ’punish you’”

Absolutely, rationalization, projection, it’s a cocktail of defense mechanisms.

Looking back, after she starred using my card, she *found* little things to get mad at me, not in an apparent way, but very passive-aggressive.

This is not the first time that I do *money favors* for her, but certainly, the last one! 🙂

And I will not confront, email or anything, NC is the best policy, I don’t even need to see her to give me my condo’s key, I change the locks. There is not excuse to let her hurt me, and I wont; I have other great friends and this is what I will focus on; she doesn’t have friends like I do, actually, I am the *last* one of several friends, the last one to have a *fight* with. Definitely a pattern…

Thank you!

sitting here tonight, i miss that male companionship. i miss having that guy to go to dinner with, or to do stuff with. i wouldt go back to ex in a million years. i feel the minute i respond to anything he does then he has a chance to get me back in and im not taking those chances anymore.

im still getting used to him being out of my life. i feel like iam going to run into him with some girl, somewhere. im not ready to be alone with another man, even though he was with other women. im still adjusting to this change in my life, even though its better.

Hello Gang.. Well here I sit with my starched wrangler’s, cowboy boot’s and white shirt, all ready to go out. But I can’t. I just get anxous thinkin about it. Guess I will watch a movie..

Blondie It does get better, we have our highs and lows, hang in there……….

i feel you henry, as much as i want to go out or even hang with a guy friend, i just cant

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