Donna Anderson’s important latest post reminds me that one topic which will never be worn out is that of the psychopath’s lies and their impact on others.
This week I want to very briefly introduce yet another take on this inexhaustible topic. Everyone lies, but there’s something else at stake in the case of the psychopath’s lies.
To illustrate: you might say about any regular (non-psychopathic) person, “Things would be better if s/he was to lie less often. Her/his soul or psyche would be healthier as would her relationships.” That’s true. Now try this on for size and notice how wrong it seems: “Things would be better if the psychopath was to lie less often. His soul or psyche would be healthier as would his relationships.”
Weirdly, this is patently not the case. The psychopath will be just as sick/evil no matter how many or how few lies he tells. It’s not a quantitative but a qualitative matter.
It is commonly said that a defining characteristic of psychopaths is that they are pathological liars. This is right if you mean that they are profoundly dishonest and not to be trusted. It does not mean, though, that psychopaths lie a lot. They do lie a lot and those lies cause havoc. But as I hope my illustration above shows, lying less will not make them better people.
So, how does this work? The thing about psychopaths is that even their truths are lies! Or rather, whether or not they happen to be telling the truth or a lie at any particular moment is not what makes them psychopathic. What makes them psychopathic is that they use and destroy people; truth or lies are for them just so many weapons for pursuing their prey.
M.L. Gallagher said a lot when she wrote this:
He is the lie….
From hello to good-bye. I love you to I hate you. You’re beautiful to you’re ugly.
It was all a lie….When friends or my family ask, but what about this, or what about that, I tell them. It was all a lie. There was no truth in him.
If I spend my time trying to figure out fact from fiction, all I am doing is trying to prove I wasn’t so stupid. See, this was true. That’s why I fell in love with him.
Truth is. I fell in love with him because I believed his lie.
When I discovered the truth, I was so enmeshed in his lie, I couldn’t find the truth in me. And so I sank.
So, I asked my therapist: “How long will it be before I recover from all of this? Will I ever be the same again? How come I am acting like this? How long will it be this way?”
She replied:
“Healing is different for each of us as different as each of our stories. The length of time depends on how long YOU want it to take. The moment you realize you are not thinking about it nor talking about it anymore, , once you realize that it is of absolute no consequence to you any longer, then you will be healed. Nobody can tell you when that will happen. That is a private journey each of us travels.”
What wonderful advice; hmm?
Just as we allowed ourselves to fall into this horrid mental situation, we can find our way back out, if we really want to. I know you remember the way back out of the rabbit hole, just like I do. How could you not remember? The deeper we went, the more nightmarish it became. I remember the way back out for survival of my own sanity. And I know you remember too. If you realize that you need to lay aside your grief in this situation and come to terms with the resentment and injustice of it all. As soon as you grab a hold of THAT, you are on your way to complete freedom. Keep NC in effect for all of those horrid things that irritate and bring misery to your life. It’s the only way to survive.
DUPED
Duped: Nah, you have it all wrong. MY childhood was fantastic. I just mention mostly the bad here, but there are WAY more good things than bad! ^_^ Although, I did make that choice about living a peacful life after seeing what my dad was. I’m glad you made that choice as well. *high fives*
So you think I have issues, huh! *eyes twitch and spin* Yeah, I know I have some issues, but I didn’t know exactly if it is PTSD. I’ll check out that site. So major depression is another beast altogther, but I do NOT feel like I have that. I’m almost never depressed, unless my dad visits or something.
Oh, so it was a HUGE step to cut him out of your life, huh. IT seems like I’m going to have to cut my sociopath out. He came over today and I didn’t want him to. I IGNORED HIM the whole time and barely said three words. He told my mom she should start dating again and talked about how kids today are so lacking in morals…….
I really wonder how much of an impact it will make if I got rid of him completely. I KNOW that medicine would cloud the issue. I already have to take Ambien to sleep, so mixing too many more medicines with that would really not be a good idea. Plus, I always seems to have weird affects when I’m on medicine! Thanks for the advice, though. It’s nice to know you made it through it all without any. MY mom’s therapist doesn’t believe in it much either. Only as a last resort type thing.
I will research the signs and symptoms. I’ve been studying and watching things all day anyway. ^_^ I think you’ve done a great job at it! Thanks for being so open about it too. I know it’s a tough subject and many are shamed about it. So I didn’t want to say too much.
Thanks for the blessing, and hopefully things go well for you too! I’ll check in. I like this place and all the postsers so far. I think I’ll come on here every day that I can. It feels GREAT to talk to people that actually KNOW this stuff and have been through it.
Sorry about your childhood. I always try to look at the positives, but sometimes people don’t have too many of those. 🙁
Cowabunga!!! *thinks of mentioning Ninja Turtles but decides against it* ^_^
Near,
I’ve been reading your posts here for a bit now. More from an observers perspective. I don’t see you as depressed or having had a shitty childhood. Sounds to me like your Mom really loved you and you have a good healthy relationship with her. Sounds to me that she did the right thing in divorcing your spathy daddy and doing it while you were relatively young, providing you the space to grow up with her loving influence.
You also seem to be pretty strong about your spath daddy. It will take some time, but you’re doing really well. You seem to be smart and capable on your own merits and terms. I’m glad this site has helped you so much. That’s what it’s here for, but ya know what? Even though I GUESS you could develop PTSD,………….with the good balance you had in your childhood with a pretty great Mom and not overly exposed to your spath daddy, the chances of PTSD ruling your existence seems small to me.
I think you’re much stronger and much more balanced than you give yourself credit for!
Keep plugging along!
LL
Near,
I agree with LL, you most likely don’t have PTSD.
Although the random presence of you dad can create stresses, that you don’t need.
When I first met my spath, I was 17 and within 3 years he was poisoning my food. I had terrible muscle pain in my neck and shoulders (strychnine) and went to several doctors. One of them said, “you seem like the classic, overstressed, high-achiever. Do think stress is a problem?”
I replied, “STRESS, WHO ME? NO! I’M NOT STRESSED, I LOVE STRESS, GIVE ME MORE STRESS!!!!”
Yeah, I was stressed but couldn’t tell. My body was reacting to the spath AND his poisons by producing adrenalin, but to me it felt exciting, not stressful. I didn’t understand what peace was or how to appreciate it.
So, be vigilent and watch your physical and emotional reactions. Know that you can and should choose your emotions and control your environment. I would NC your spath dad.
Lesson Learned: Thanks for reading my posts in order to try and understand me. That’s sweet and pretty caring of you. I love to hear input in order to notice things I might not even be aware of.
I just looked up PTSD and Ambien side effects. I do NOT think I suffer from PTSD. I have nightmares and memory problems, and I have trouble sleeping. I use Ambien to help me sleep, but I’ve learned that it can actually cause nightmares and memory problems! 🙁 Maybe that is why I have some of these symptoms, but I’ve had trouble sleeping since my accident. Still, I am pretty confident I don’t suffer from PTSD.
I also think my childhood was great, mostly because my dad’s influence was gone. My mom is the reason for most of my great memories in the first place. You think I’m strong when it comes to my spath? I thought I was WEAK. Maybe you’re right; maybe I need to give myself a little more credit.
I’m feeling a little more confident now! ^_^ Thanks, LL!
Dear Near,
I am assuming that the Ambien is prescribed by a physician for your problem sleeping “since the accident.” I’m sorry, you may have said what the accident was and how long ago it happened, but I don’t remember.
Ambien is a HABIT FORMING drug and there are times it is required long term, but in general it can have some BAD side effects including some that are serious.
I would suggest that you be evaluated by a MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL not just your family doctor that would prescribe Ambien. Just taking ambien “forever” and not seeing what else is going on with you I think is not addressing the ROOT PROBLEM.
It would be like going to the doctor because your foot is swollen up and red, and he gives you antibiotics, but doesn’t remove the SPLINTER that is in your foot. Without removing the splinter, staying on antibiotics forever to keep the swelling and infection down doesn’t SOLVE the problem long term.
The BASIC problem of the splinter is what needs to be addressed. Does that make any sense?
As for your P father, I think your IGNORING HIM while he is there is a good idea. Go to your bedroom and close the door. Don’t interact with him. Maybe you can’t control your mom allowing him to come over, but you CAN control your own interaction (or not) with him. Control what YOU can control, and let the rest slide. I do hope that your mom will see that NC with him is best, but if she doesn’t you can still refuse to interact with him. Good luck and God bless.
near – haha he told my mom she should start dating again and talked about how kids today are so lacking in morals—. PROJECTION – means he’s dating and HE lacks morals. and i think it may have been a ‘tell’ – he might be planning something. just a feeling.
I too don’t know when your accident was, or what your chronic physical issues are as a result of it, but your combo of nightmares, trouble sleeping and memory problems makes me wonder what’s going on in your body. do you not sleep because you have nightmares? or because of muscles tension, or pain? or is it the nightmares? or do you have injury induced fibro, which can cause memory problems and insomnia?sorry, don’t mean to be intrusive with all the questions. just trying to understand.
(((((((((((((((( near )))))))))))))))))))
You’re young, but you’re very smart! I know you’re getting LOTS of good advice here, and then some of it I don’t agree with, but I think while reading and observing posts here is this: DON”T assume that an OPINION is a FACT. That’s easy to do when you’re young, when you have ptsd, when you have issues going on with a spath at all…..in this case your father.
really, only you know your situation and what’s best for you.
TWO things I don’t agree with Oxy on: I like Sam Vaknin’s BOOK, and little else. It was the first book I read about PD’s and it was ACCURATE. Some of it I didn’t agree with, but I know it was enormously helpful to me, I still have the book, but more reference others that I think are BETTER about spaths. Everything else associated with Sam is not worth looking at or reading.
Secondly, Oxy is old school when it comes to medications and nursing. she’s good, but doing it a long time. I’m TOTALLY NOT against taking ANY medications that may help you cope with whatever it is that you’re dealing with. I think she is right to seek out a professional opinion tailored to YOU and YOUR situation. ANY medication, such as ambien or other sleep aid WILL create an addiction as the body adjusts to it and you take it over a long period of time. I’m not against that either! Not everyone becomes EMOTIONALLY addicted, but physiologically, it’s unavoidable. So as with any drug that is POTENTIALLY addicting, you’d want to take is as prescribed and if you are having any side effects that are not comfortable FOR YOU, there are many medications out there to which you can switch too that will help you with your sleep issues, but truly, the only one who is going to really help you is your DOCTOR.
I guess what I’m trying to say here too, is that the only person who knows what’s best for you is you. If you look outside yourself or an overwhelming amount of opinions, it removes your ability to listen to your gut cuz you’re listening to everyone else 🙂
Just learn to trust yourself.
You are your own BEST advocate!
LL
LL, I don’t see what you “disagree” with in my OLD SCHOOL ideas, I suggested he get a PROFESSIONAL ASSESSMENT….hypnotics, of which Ambien is one, can cause MORE THAN physical or emotional addictions and side effects.Just like if he had a broken leg (or a potential one) I would advise him to seek help from an orthopaedic physician for a PROFESSIONAL ASSESSMENT and TREATMENT. I am also aware that not all professionals are equal either, and in that case if your gut is telling you something isn’t right, you get a “second opinion” from another PROFESSIONAL.
Before my retirement I had the professional licenses and qualifications to treat both medical and psychological conditions and to prescribe medication, but I do to a medical professional for my physical care and check ups and follow their instructions, and I go to a mental health professional for my psych treatment for my PTSD, the reason being that while I might know more than the average “joe” about medical or psych conditions, I also know that just like a “lawyer who has himself for a client has a fool for a client” so does a medical professional. My doc even laughed at me the last time I saw her and I asked what she was laughing about and she said, “I’ve never seen a primary health care provider (which I was before retirement) who was a compliant patient.” But I am a VERY Compliant patient.
I don’t presume to diagnose or treat or to give anything here on this blog except my personal OPINION, but that personal opinion is that it’s a good idea to seek mental health professional evaluation for mental health issues. If that’s “old school” or out of line, I wish you’d let me know what’s wrong with it.
Ox Drover: I just started Ambien two years ago. Before that I almost never slept, from age 5. I always got up and went to school and functioned normally, though. I’m in a wheelchair because of my accident. I also have Scoliosis. I had some brain damage from the accident too, but nothing too serious. Anyway, my doctor put me on Ambian after Lunesta messed me up. It made me FURIOUS and left a bad taste in my mouth. I just couldn’t sleep, not because of the nightmares. I was also in pain all the time, but I had a pain clinic at my hospital.
I know, that’s a lot to digest. I don’t think I’d ever be able to sleep without something to help me. So I might be on my sleep medication forever. ^_^ I guess I do need to find a mental health expert. I had a couple in my hospital visits, though. Music therapy after surgeries and discussion. They thought I was fine then, but this is now. So much to think about! ^_^
Anyway, I did exactly that with my dad. He tried to talk to me and come in my room. I ignored him and went about my research. Funny, my computer had windows open about sociopaths and he was standing there. ^_^
ONE JOY: He did mention he was dating and “looking around” because he doesn’t want “be alone forever” or something like that. I can’t believe you guessed that. Ugh, I need to learn to spot projection like you do. You’re a pro, man! I felt sick and like I said, I didn’t speak to him.
Lesson Learned: Thank you! I’ll remember that most these are opinions. I just dislike Sam. I don’t want to support him in any way. I’ll find the info somewhere else for free if I must read it.
I’m trying to trust myself! Thanks for all the advice. All my doctors thought Ambien was fine, but it’s up to me in the end. I’m the customer, after all. ^_^ I just try to see every opinion and every angle. I don’t want to mess things up and I want to make the best choices possible.
Ugh, this post is so long. I’m just trying to digest this all. 😛