By | October 28, 2009 423 Comments

He Will Call It Love. (May contain triggers.)

I am often asked how I managed to get out of that place of darkness to live with such light and joy in my heart today. The answer is fairly simple — I chose to. The reality is much more complex. The following piece describes where I got to in that journey. It is an excerpt from my book, The Dandelion Spirit. I originally wrote it on a forum I belonged to about a year after he was arrested. It was my ‘explanation’ of what happened to me in that relationship.

There is a warning with this post — it may trigger you. If it does, breathe — and know, when a trigger explodes in your mind, it is your opportunity to embrace it, walk into it, accept it and heal it. Only you can make that choice. Triggers exist in our mind. The past is no longer. It is gone. The memories are what are hurting us. And when we pull the trigger and let the bullet of memory pierce us, we give ourselves the grace of being free. Nameste

He told her it was ”˜love at first sight’. Destiny. Fate. He asked her to marry him on the first date — has anyone ever loved you so completely? Has anyone ever swept you off your feet with such passion? Such fervour? She told him she was not ready. He pursued.

He wanted sex within the first week or two of meeting and showered her with gifts, flowers, champagne, to prove he truly, madly deeply loved her and only her. When she told him it was too soon for physical intimacy, that she needed to ”˜go slowly’ he respected her wishes. But, then he arranged a ”˜special’ weekend away at an exotic location to surprise her. How could she refuse him?

And on that first time together, he became short of breath, his skin started to flake from lack of oxygen. He had a heart-attack. The ambulance came. She was whisked away, and though his business partners kept her informed of his health, she never knew where he was, or what was truly happening. When next she saw him, he sadly told her of his rare heart condition. Being ”˜a man’s man’ he could not fathom living with someone else’s heart beating in his body. He must undergo experimental surgery, but only once his heart has deteriorated to a point that it was feasible — 1 month, 2 months at the outside 3.

He gave her a new cell phone so that she did not need to worry about the expense. He constantly reminded her that though she was successful in her own right, all that she had accomplished to create her beautiful life was nothing compared to what he would make possible. He told her that no one would ever want for her what he could give her, for what he was going to give her were her dreams come true. The dreams she had whispered to him while lying safely in his arms, the world far away and silent. He held her and told her of his love. He laughed and teased her, told her with fervent kisses of his dreams for ”˜them’, for their happily ever after.

And she slid into his arms.

Everything circled around his desires and wants—he was dying, he was weak. He could not be ”˜excited’. But even in his ‘ill health’, he was only concerned about her well-being. He told her he was setting up trust funds, changing over his insurance policies, investing in her business, investing in other businesses to create a life for her greater than any she could ever imagine — or ask for or wanted. She only wanted him to live.

As his health failed, he would confess that he was part of an organized family. One of the ”˜upper echelon’. She didn’t understand. She didn’t believe those things really existed. He told her that was what made her so beautiful. Her innocence. Her belief in goodness.

“You do not believe in evil,” he said, stroking her hair where he held her head against his chest. “You have not seen what I have seen.”

What did the past matter, she wondered. He was dying. Now was all they had to share.

As a parting gift, he wanted to give her the story of his life — “It will be such a story,” he said. “Your fame as a writer will be assured.” It will be called, ”˜A New Don Rising’ for he was changing the old guard, he was ridding the ”˜family’ of its unethical, illegal businesses. He was honourable, righteous. He did not want to be remembered for the destruction he had created, but for the lives he had saved through his ”˜good works’. She was his inspiration, his reason for hanging on to see that what he started was completed, and that she never need for anything again. That she and her daughters were safe from harm.

He had secret friends, and many, many enemies. He will toy with her by telling her that his enemies were willing to harm her and her children to get at him. He told her evil men had sent him three bullets. Pictures of a young girl being violated — she looks like your eldest daughter, he said. These evil men were threatening to kidnap her daughter, drug her and put her in the sex trade unless she remained silent. He promised he would never let harm come to her and them, but she must do what he says and be silent. Only silence will keep her children safe. She will never see these evil men, but he will tearfully tell her of the threats he has received against her and her children.

He will triangulate his relationship with her and with other people. He will tell her who is ”˜plotting’ against her. He will tell her who is working with the police to build their case against him and using her and her love for her children as the wedge to destroy him. He will tell her that she is being investigated by child services, that he has men following her to keep her safe and the police have people following her to spy on him and the bad men have people following her to get at him. Wherever she goes there are people following her, taking pictures, watching. And she knows they are there, because sometimes she sees them. Sometimes she is shown pictures. Sometimes, he comments on what she was wearing that day, even when he has told her he wasn’t there. She never knows when someone will be watching. Or not. She never knows.

He will appear emotionally hurt at what he tells her others are doing to turn her against him — and though she will never see or know what others are doing, he will ensure she believes him and is too frightened of her daughters’ safety to risk confronting him or these ”˜others’ about him.

He will tell her about his past lovers and relationships — before his marriage. He will tell her how cold and sterile his marriage was. He will tell her that he has never paid for sex, never used pornography, never been with a woman other than his wife while married — but theirs was an arranged marriage between families — she was an exceptional wife and mother but they had never truly, madly, deeply known love together. And now, with her, he does know true love, and he’ll leave out the mad part but she will feel it. And he will ask her about her experiences — and keep the intimate details stored until a later date when he will use the information to terrorize her.

He will always give her compliments. He has known her through many lifetimes — but this is the first time he has to show her his love. She will come to wish it were the last. She will come to believe that his love will kill her. And she will remain silent.

He will act overly concerned, soft and caring when she speaks to him of her terror of these unseen evil men and her fears for her daughters’ safety. He will tell her not to cry. He will tell her it’s okay to cry. He will take her tears and use them as his weapon, to show her how weak, stupid and ugly she is. How pathetic.

And she will believe him. She is pathetic for not being able to handle the terror. She will try to take her own life and he will laugh at her pitiful attempt to end it.

“You can never leave me,” he will tell her. “I will never let you go.”

And she will grow silent and only say those things that keep him calm, that cause him to applaud her, to appreciate her, to admire her.

Eventually, he will tell her that she reminds him of his mother. He will tell her how sad it makes him that his mother will never know her — for she is the woman she would have loved as her daughter-in-law.

He will create a ”˜husband’ for her. One of the top family men whom no one will mess with — and to ensure no one messes with her. He will show her the wedding invitations, the marriage certificate. He will promise her that he will have the ”˜marriage’ evaporate as soon as he has corrected all the wrongs so that then he can marry her himself — as soon as he has wrought vengeance on those who have tried to harm him. She will never wear the dress. Never walk the aisle. But he will convince her that isn’t necessary. He is doing this all for her. She must trust him. Believe him. She doesn’t. But she never tells him. And she never tells herself of her fears.

He will always take away the evidence and leave her with nothing to show for his promises, his threats, his lies. He will tell her he has signed papers in her name. “It is for your own good,” he will say. And she will remain silent. Sometimes, she’ll wonder where the papers are. But she doesn’t dare look for them. He will be angry if she does. And so, she stays silent and holds onto the darkness he tells her will keep her safe.

He will tell her of the many assassination attempts against him. He will carry a gun and show it to her ”˜accidentally’. She will panic and he will laugh at her and tell her to face the truth, “life is tough and if she wants to keep her children safe, she’d better learn to accept he has a gun.” He will call her in a panic, telling her of the latest assassination attempt, telling her his cousin is dead, but he escaped with only minor wounds. He will call her from the funeral, tears in his voice. Begging her to help him understand why it has to be like this. Why can’t they just leave him alone to love her as she deserves to be loved.

He will keep her on the rollercoaster of his lies and she will keep her eyes tightly shut, missing the exits flying by.

He will make sure she fears for her life, and her daughters’ safety. She will despair that she has brought such terror into their existence, and he will tell her it is his fault, but he will fix it. And then, he’ll blame her for the mess and remind her that only he can fix it.

He will arrange for ”˜things’ to happen to convince her that the evil men are watching, plotting, attempting to kill her or harm her daughters. There will be dead birds on her doorstep, bombs beneath her car. Kidnappers lurking, items missing from her home.

As her terror rises and she become less and less able to function, he will promise to protect her, to take care of her. He will remind her it is all her fault that she is like this and that the beautiful life he was building for her was destroyed. When a police investigator comes to see her about him and she spends five minutes talking to the investigator, he will yell and scream at her that she is stupid, stupid, stupid. When the ”˜other woman’ accosts her in her office, he will scream and yell at her that she should not have gone into the office that day. And he will never explain why there is an investigation, or why the other woman exists. And she will be too frightened to ask.

He will make her change cell phones many times — to foil the evil men from listening to her calls. From tracking where he is and knowing where she is going. But he will always know and make sure she knows he sees her, even when he isn’t there.

He will ensure she knows he is taping her calls by repeating conversations she’s had with others. He will call her from far away places in the middle of the night and accuse her of having another man in her bed. He will accuse her of having at least two affairs. He will accuse her of vile things. He will use every ounce of knowledge he has about her against her. He will use her.

He will ensure she knows he is capable of murder. He will ensure she knows there is no getting away from him. He will ensure she witnesses his ability to harm others, to obtain vengeance. He will build the case to ensure she tries to kill herself and when she fails, he will hold her pinioned in his arms until she becomes the walking dead, alive only through his munificence.

And when he is not there, when he is away, she will sleep with one eye open for he is always lurking, somewhere in the corners of her mind.

I no longer sleep with one eye open. He is not lurking anywhere in the corners of my mind. I have filled my thinking with all that loves and supports me. I have no room for him in my mind today. He is not important. He has no value.He does not count in my life today.

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Ox Drover

Dear Louise,

Thank you for sharing, and as usual, it is written in such a way as to eloquently picture the pain and terror as well as explain the mounting fears….the mounting insanity of lies the psychopaths bind us in, like chains of slavery and humiliation.

Your writings are so inspirational and so theraputic, so healing, because overcoming these lies, finding the light, the truth, and learning from the past, forgiving ourselves for the past, is what LoveFraud is all about. thank you. ((((hugs))))

Ox Drover

WOW! Louise, (hanging head here in mock humility, and making circles in the dirt with my toe! LOL) you embarass me with such high praise from someone I admire so much for her wonderful writing skills as well as her strength of spirit!

Yes, it is a hard road we travel at times, but I think in the end, when we endure, we come out on the other end of that road, stronger and better people. Your stories and articles are an inspiration to us all! I learn more every day here at LF and seeing the healing in the posts from others is an inspiration in itself to keep on that road toward healing. (((hugs))))


goodmorning Louise and Oxy,
yes, it triggered me.
It triggered me to want to smack that guy upside the head!

My xP was the same, all the fricken drama about drug deals and cops and homeland security.

How I wish I had known what I know now, I could have had such fun with his stupid little games. Oh, and “you remind me of my mother.” YEP been there done that.

Last night I dreamt that the xP and I had some ashes of his deceased father that we were going to bury. Later in the dream, those ashes turned out to be his mother’s ashes (though in reality she is not dead yet) . We drove to a property where there were 5 vicious guard dogs, but a woman came out and calmed them all. Then we lowered the ashes into a small hole in the grown and started to cover it. When we were done, there was a mound of dirt about 1 foot high and 6 inches in diameter and it was covered in red berries. I think that the dream symbolized my wish that we could bury his past and the effects that his mother and father had on both of our lives. Juniper berries symbolized improved health. My health has certainly improved since I left him and he’s no longer putting poison in my food!

Ox Drover

Dear Skylar,

Th epoison they leave in our MINDS and hearts and emotions is what we must concentrate on exorcising now that we are physically away from them. that is why NC is soooo VERY important to our well being, because they can’t give us NEW emotional injuries. It takes some calm and peace in order to heal and NC gives us that. As long as we engage with them, it makes it more difficult.

NC is sometimes extremely hard, especially if you share minor or even adult children with them as their smear campaign and intimidation makes us WANT to engage with them. Learning to NOT ENGAGE with them is our SALVATION, even if we must be in contact due to legal issues or shared parenthood.

Trying to “get justice” sometimes is more costly that what we recover. Listening to their threats keeps us in a chaotic uproar. It is only when we are NC emotionally and/or physically that we can start to see the elephant in the room.

I think our dreams sometimes are our mind/subconscious working out “stuff” to do with them. Sometimes my dreams have shown me that I was putting others needs before my own, and once I saw that, then recognized what I was doing in the waking state and stopped doing that, the dreams ceased.

I ocassionally have a nightmare, but not often. So I am sure there are still things that I need to work on. Staying on the road to healing is a life time effort, not a “destination” that we will reach one day and say “Oh, wow, I am fully healed.”

Many times I got on the road, felt myself healed 100% and now looking back I can see that I only partly “healed” from the immediate wounding, but didn’t stay on the road to healing long enough to realize that it is a JOURNEY, NOT A DESTINATION. So now, I will STAY on that road, and not become so arrogant within myself to say “I am healed” and need no further work, I know that I must continue to improve my thinking, refine my philosophy, and enjoy the journey, rather than thinking I will “get there.” that outlook makes the journey easier for me. And, I realize too that there will be “triggers” once in a while, but I CAN handle them, move on and learn from each one.


Interestingly written.. and yes, it triggers and fits what occurred to me.. The instant love, the sweeping off my feet, the “I have known you in a past life”, “I have been looking for you all my life” the asking me to marry him in the first three weeks.. the trying to get me to sleep with him and when I was ready he couldn’t perform and later he blamed me. The secret deals that he has going with CIA, Banks and overseas. His self-importance. His claiming what I have as his, his sense of entitlement to my life. His claims for all that he will do for me when his ship comes in. His connections to ‘important’ people in is past and future. His delusions of grandeur. That I am like his mother. With almost the same name, a gourmet cook, elegant, upper-class. Then him turning on my when I don’t say ‘you’re welcome” to his ‘thank you.” Shouting that I was raised in a barn when I was more upper class than he has ever been.. I never bought it.. I has one foot in and one out … and he knew it.. him places his burdens onto me. Trying to make me fit into what he wants not who I am. His watching me, trying to figure out how to play me. His arrogance, his arrogance. That he is the authority on things spiritual. That he is a guru.. that he is not like other people. I have nightmares lately about him as I release him from me.. more and more each day and come back into reality… losing his false romance, his crazy life. It feels good to be in reality again. I feel solid.. yet those remnents of his contrived words linger and at moments make take me back to the memory of the ‘what if’s with him.. his whole life is a what if. And I want what is real.


He took up my life with his continually calls, texts and attentiong. I became focused on him. He told me that he thought about me every minute of the day.. and he made contact all the time.. Now, there is a void. That is what feels strange.. even as I didn’t like the continual attention. I did on some level and now that it is gone, there is a void. That is why my mind goes back to him.. He trained me to do this. He conditioned me from the very beginning.. he wanted to take over my very life, my soul… and he made a good attempt.. and that is not love.. that is obsession and is evil. The opposite of love.. He just calls it love to make it seem desirable. He talked about love all the time.. and I never really felt it from him. He felt cold.

super chic

What a terrifying way to live, he is pure evil, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. This is a testament to how strong you are, an example to all of us as to how we can choose to get better and heal, as you have.


Style 1…I TOTALLY know how you feel. That void. My exS would wake me up every morning with either a call or text if he wasn’t there in bed with me. I literally slept with my phone next to my head so I wouldn’t miss a call or a text. The attention, calls, texts, emails were non stop all day, until we went to sleep. Now…it’s crickets chirping and tumbleweeds blowing by. My phone is silent most of the day. It forces me to be with me, and that was the hardest thing to get used to. You’re right..they conditioned and trained us to gain control over us. I guess he thought the constant attention would prove that he loved and cared for me, or that I wouldn’t question him. The last time I ever saw him, it was a normal good morning pookie…texted and talked allllllll day until I saw him that evening, and something told me to go through his phone. That’s when I discovered nonstop convos with another woman that very same day..all the while talking to me… (and this wasn’t the first time I caught him) There aren’t words to describe the rage and pain I felt, but that’s when I knew, I wasn’t the only one getting that attention, i had to stop lying to myself and I was done. I threw him out, vowed to never speak to him again, and haven’t heard from him since. Sometimes the peace and quiet is deafening. I hate it sometimes, because you’re right, that’s when my mind goes back to him. But other times it’s great. I can get stuff done without being constantly interrupted. They are evil, hell holds a special place for all of them! Stay strong. Time to fill that void with positive things that aren’t going to try and suck the life out of you.


amber, yes.. I just recently put it all together..I was wondering why I missed him when I wanted him to be gone.. and it’s the void that he left..

I recall hating it when the phone ring.. knowing it was him again..He interrupted my everyday life continually.. and blocked me from thinking or pulling away. I had to tell him aht I had to go to sleep by 11:30 or I was exhausted the next day.. He would keep me yaking until 1-2-3- in the morning.. and he was not tired even thought he worked hard all day. I think he was manic and that the love fix gave him energy.

I enjoy the peace now mostly and know when my phone rings that he is not him.. but still that void is there.. I found myself listening for the phone..

This is a major clue that something is off when someone makes contact that much.. Normal people do not need to hook in 24/7.. and he would tell me all sorts of details about his life and day that who cares!It was tooooo much info.. too much everything and too soon. And I did feel that he was sucking the life out of me. I even went through a time that I felt fearful of him.. although, he never hit. I have never been hit by anyone.. it has been emotional and verbal for me.. but something about this man, made me fearful I laid in bed and prayed that God would protect me from this man who ‘claimed’ to be so spiritual… I prayed that God would reveal the truth and that to get him out of my life and he did…This man was true to me.. he was obsessed with me and controlling me to be what he wanted.. and to fit into his plans…and when I pulled away.. or wasn’t what he thought.. he began revealing his trur hateful nature.

Yeah! Now, the void can be filled by me…
he is a void.. a hole that sucks the life out of women.


the p didn’t go so far with his game as to talk enemies of his, assassination or anything to dramatic but I still felt stalked, evil looming, all those things by the way he acted or he’d make a comment using words I’d used when he wasn’t around. He never told me anything much about himself. what was going on or anything. I would ask him to talk to me at best i’d get an insult, I’d ask him to call me once in a while on a break or lunch, he was always too busy, I’d ask him to txt some. It’d be nice for him to at least pretend he cared…He was always too busy.
We share a phone contract that will be up none too soon, but in the mean time the bill shows that since he has left that he calls people all the time and he texts people…about 800 txts a month and this last weekend he txted to the same one(a new person) 600 texts in 3 days.
I know this is stupid to be hurt by this but wow it hurts. I wish I wish I hadn’t looked. Why did he act like he was too busy to even txt me once a week or call ever, but he can talk and talk with other people? 800txt a month? seriously!
I can’t believe he spent all that time making me feel so worthless, lonely, scared, on and on and yet I care that he has been talking to others for hours at a time txting. I tell myself I know what it was like to try to talk to him and that’s what these people are dealing with but my feelings still feel so hurt.
I’ve hit a slump and can’t seem to get out of it.

amber’re so right HE IS A VOID. I believed my ex was bipolar as well. Oh and he had ADHD. Man do I know how to pick em…he was a bipolar, ADHD, drug addict sociopath. Let me tell you..not such a good combo. It became apparent to me within a few short months. His highs were out of control, and his lows were scary. And they were on a set shedule. We we be on the high for 2-3 months and each time the 3rd month rolled around..i knew any day we were doomed for a low that would last about a month. After 4 years it became torture for me. His lows were filled with suicidal thoughts, barely any contact and just turned into the most depressing person on earth. At first I was devastated because I lived through his happiness, and all I wanted to do was make it better for him, but he would just push me away which killed me more. The last year of our relationship when he hit his lows it was like a relief for me that I knew that I was going to not have to deal with his drama. And then just like that he would snap out of it and the high would return and he was soooo happpy and in love with me again. He was truly sick. He was watching his kids one night and sent me a text saying that he only wanted his children to remember that he loved them then ate a bottle of pills and drank. It was so out of nowhere, he always talked about how he just wanted to end it all because it would be so much easier than living his life. And I could only imagine! I can’t begin to think how difficult it must be to keep track of all the lies you tell and the people you manipulate. The weird part is, my ex KNEW he was a bad person and he hated himself for it, but it’s as if he wasn’t able to control it. I truly believe he was satan incarnate.
I won’t lie, I still to this day, out of habit, first thing when my eyes open in the morning…I check my phone?!?! I don’t know why I still do it. And anytime my phone rings I wonder…is it him? But I know it’s not going to be..I had his # blocked. My brain had been wired to only think of him and it’s still working on undoing the damage. I became addicted to the attention I believe and sometimes I still have withdrawls. But what keeps that not missing him is the thought of those lows and the emotioal rollercoaster that we were constantly on. I welcome this void. You should too.

Heavenbound…I too found myself playing detective checking his phone, his hotel reservations, everything. But I had to stop because it hurt so much whenever I found anything. But especially after we were through, I vowed to NEVER EVER check on anything related to him ever again. Now I feel like what I don’t know won’t hurt me. That was his poilcy right?? So now I even tell my friends to not tell me anything if they find anything out, I don’t care to know any of it anymore. It’s not worth it. You deserve better. Don’t let yourself fall into a slump because that means he wins. Don’t give him that satisfaction. It’s going to hurt. It’s supposed to heart. If we didn’t hurt, we would be like them because that means that we don’t feel. Feeling and hurting is part of the process. It’s your choice from here on out how happy you want to be. Choose your happiness!! The slump will pass. But do whatever you can to lift your spirits and take care of yourself. HUGS!!


yes, I know (I say with my head down). sigh
I’m not hurting about it now. But the slump is an awful place to be. I don’t wish it on anyone. Thanks for your encouragement amber.
I truly believe they are satan incarnate myself.
We truly are better off without them, it bothers me that, even with that knowledge, we still suffer the things we each suffer in wondering and thinking about them and the ups and downs, just all of it. Hugs to you also amber!


HeavenBound – What you don’t know might kill you. But now that he is gone the less you know, the better off you are. My X’s cell phone would ring all times of the day and nite and he would say “sorry wrong number” or he would walk outside to take the call. At nite he would turn it off or keep on vibrate in his pocket. So, stupid me tuned it on one nite while he was asleep and it rang – I answered – and I will never forget – Some man said “Hey I found your number on the restroom wall at______” I didnt want to believe it – but too make a long sick story short, I put his cell phone in the microwave for 8 seconds and kicked him out that nite…………………………………………..but I took him back even after that – oh those crocodile tears and suicide attemps got to me every time – pity pity pity

super chic

heavenbound, yes a slump is an awful place to be, I’ve been in one lately and I wish it would just go away quickly! I agree with henry and amber that it would be better not to even look at his cell phone bill or anything else. I also think of my ex often, I guess I’m still thinking about my dream of him.

super chic

Did anyone see Larry King tonight? A doctor said that UCLA did a study on men with Anti Social Personality Disorders (I believe they said the men had committed violent acts). UCLA performed brain scans on these men and they found that they had 10% less volume in the front part of their brain than normal people (they described it as the part of the brain that emotion comes from, compassion, empathy, remorse, etc). They didn’t really say much more than that, but I thought it was VERY interesting. I wonder if I could google the study and if I did find it… if I would understand it!


hmmm hollow in the head as well – go figure…


I have read similar information about brain scans and psychopathy, and that their brains do not respond to certain stimuli like a normal, healthy person’s brain would.
I say let the brain scans begin.
We can start with my brother’s wife and my mom’s boyfriend.


My son to!

super chic

It gives new meaning to the old saying… “you need to go get your head examined!”


This is what it is like – even if the details are somewhat different in each story – there is a general thread of lies, manipulation, distortion, grandiose schemes and plans and a general lack of love for the target. I haven’t decided yet if they are aware of what they do – I think on some level they do know the pain they cause. Perhaps they don’t though.

It is high time researchers got into finding out what causes this and what treatments can be effective – these people wreak havoc on others and on society. They need to be stopped.

It is really horrible to read down the comments and see the legacy of pain being suffered by each person in their own private hell after dancing with the s. The irony is they are not weeping – they are fine. it is so unfair.

Heavenbound – can so relate to the slump. I have days when I am on top of it all and can articulate what happened and what the recovery process will look like then there are other days when I realise that my life is not what I wanted and got badly derailed by him. I then start to connect with the ocean of pain in my heart from ALL hurts throughout my whole life and this is what makes it overwhelming. I spent much of the weekend crying, reading and not doing much at all.

I re-iterate what other posters have said. The slump will pass and in the meantime try to do what makes your heart sing to get through it. Even if your heart only smiles reservedly to start with! Even if you think you can’t really be bothered. My current obsession is sewing – even though I am a really crap sewer 🙂 It’s nice to buy bits of pretty fabrics on sale though and to day dream!
I sure hope you feel better today – lots of people are thinking about you.


oh Henry, I missed you just by a few minutes 🙁
I posted and got busy with my boys… lots of homework its finals week and my youngest is home sick…the flu

I like the microwave trick, I wish I’d thought to do that.
The p always went outside to talk and would set it on vibrate or turn it off. I knew there was something going on there. But I knew I couldn’t survive knowing,…I think.

Hollow in the head…lol that is believable!

Shabbychic…I wish the slump would go away quickly too. I’m sorry your in one as well. I really do need to not look at the cell records. I wanted to see if he had tried to check on our boy because he is sick and he said he would…(I keep my cell shut off because of him)…he didn’t. It sounds awful that he didn’t but I’m glad he didn’t bother playing fake.
I didn’t catch what your dream was, I’ll have to try and find it.

I do feel alittle better. I’m sorry you had a down weekend.
It is so easy to slip from the top with a vision to the bottom were all the hurt still is. I’m so angry about how far off I let this derail me. But hopefully we’re headed back to the top again!

I love you all!

Gemini… I don’t think you have been on this section so I hope you find this, but I want you to know you are on my heart and I love you…love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound


polly, they are very aware of what they do. It’s a game to them. But they are aware that they are different and don’t understand why. So they make up stories of alien abduction, genetics, the devil, whatever they can imagine, as an excuse.
the truth is they are self indulgent and they indulged their own tantrum. so they became P’s. so sad for them.

They like to see others suffer because it feeds their desire to have what you have. They are envious at the core. They want you to have nothing because they feel cheated.


I think we can copy and paste our life stories with the S. How incredibly similar they are… The only changes are locations, times and their names..

I think brain scan should be compulsory and also have a international databse with their names and major crimes they have committed. This should prevent many other victms, many inocent lives and many descent people to have their beautiful lifes destroyed by those aliens.


Dear heavenbound, I really appreciate your love nd prayers this evening. i did what Oxy advised me NOT to do, looked up my older P daughter on facebook, and i found a new “friend” on it, my other daughter,C, 43, whom I havent seen,[her decision not mine,} in nearly 17 years. I havent seen a photo of her either in all this time,so it really threw me. She is still beautiful, but I looked at her eyes and realised she is a sick, troubled soul, and not happy despite the rich Jewish boy shes living with, who she has 3 kids by. {Ive never once been allowed to see these kids.} Serves me right for looking at Ds facebook,-shes cut me out of it, but I was still able to find her “friends” Wont be looking again, Ive learnt my lesson.It hurts though.Much Love, and {{HUGS}} to you too, Oxy, Ive learned the hard wayas usual!! Love, gem.XX


Mine wrote in an email early on that he has always known that he was different than other people. I think to some degree, at times, we all have that feeling.. but he thought that he was so above everyone else.. that he could see and know on a higher or better level than anyone one else..and that is how he approached me .. that he was so wise, so spiritual, so intelligent and so all knowing that he was ahead of the game.. while actually his life was in a mess. He decsions had put him in a place where he was being evicted from a house. Instead of taking action to take care of himself.. he came after me.. conned me and I ended up helping him out of the mess and he lived with me.. then I find out that he hadn’t paid rent for three months.. when I asked him why didn’t he move somewhere less costly and smaller. He always had excuses. THey get others to help them with their life and things that had they made different choices that they could’ve corrected on their own. I made it easier for him and gave him direction and a wonderful place to live while he pulled me into his spin.. Had I stayed in his spin.. I would eventually find myself in dire straits like he is. He didn’t lift me up .. he brought me down.. That is what I have become very aware of.. I want people in my life that lift me instead of take me down and burden me. And if it doesn’t occur then I am better off alone. I know what to expect if I am alone.. and I don’t have someone else’s past guiding and destroying my present and future. It was like he said I love you, you are the love of my life, now, I have financial problems, children, some who are ill, emotionally and physically and you have a house and no children.. Now, when I make it big I will do this and that for you but for now, this is how it is.. most of my money goes to my ex and yes, I have bad credit and no house, and have to work all the time.. but you have a house, and some resources, so isn’t this perfect for me. He never thought about what he was doing and could possibly do to me. He never thought that his bad credit would affect me should I have been stupid enough to marry him. He neve thought that I could be made responsible for his child support should I have been stupid enough to marry him. He wanted me thinking about how much he loved me and the flowers that he brought to me and all the attention that he gave me.. he wanted me so spun out that I married him and took on his burdens.. and when I told him that I wasn’t interested in taking care of his children, his life, his burdens.. he told me that I wasn’t spiritual and that I was rude…

The deal is that we have got to learn to beaware and to take care of ourselves and to not be blindsided or needy for attention of love.. because if we are whole we see through the con faster and better.. and the less that we allow creeps into our life to manipulate us.

I saw him and I observed him.. and I forced him to keep giving and giving to me.. I never really attached to him… I get now what my friends say when they say.. you never really bought what he was selling..

But the deal is that I ‘wanted’ what he was selling to be true. I wanted the dream that he presented.. but having him gone, although there is a temporary void ..I have a chance to really have it.. instead of the illusion of it.

They are illusion… And reality is where we live.


They are not an illusion – what they promise and say and do is the illusion. They paint an illusion for us. But they are flesh and bone humans. They know they are different ( I am fucked up is was what my X would say) . but they are walkin talkin sexin flesh and blood real .. it is how they play with our heads and hearts, how they fuck with our reality, undermine our sanity..with illusions of whatever – but they see we are crumbling and they fuckin get off on that – it’s power to them – it’s control – it’s sick. good morning~!

super chic

henry, amen to that! Good morning! LOL


Mine knew he was sick too, but didn’t know what was wrong with him. “I’m dark” “I destoy eerything I touch” “I don’t see the good in me” “I’m not a good person” “I’m just an actor, but don’t want to do it to you too.” “I know I’m only capable of hurting you” blah blahhh blaaaaahhhhhhh… And I’ll never forget, we were probably on our second date, and he made it very clear that “if I made any wrong moves that they would find me with cement shoes on at the bottom of the ocean” my jaw dropped and I thought well that’s just not something you say on a second date. Later on he would describe in great detail how he would get rid of a body, I mean down to every last minute detail and he was convinced he had mastered it. And you could literally see him get off on telling me, he got such a rise out of it, big grin. So creepy. Makes me wonder why he knew so much sometimes?!?!?! I actually told some of my friends exactly every detail he would tell me, and warned them that if I disappeared you know where to look or who to go after. All the signs were there. But we all wanted to buy what they were selling. They are artists of creating a dreamworld that they want us to live in. He knew all along that he was destroying me but chose to do it, even knowing how bad he was hurting me. They are sick, demented, soulless creatures. I’m glad I got out before I ended up in cement shoes.


Okay.. he is flesh and bones creating an illusion.. semantics… the deal is once the illusion is gone so are the flesh and bones.. and they try to make you feel that it is because you aren’t ‘good’ enough in someway.. when what the deal is is that you didn’t surcomb to their needs and keep them in their delusion.. I recall one day at the end of the relationship.. he is berrating me because I didn’t respond “you’re welcome” He is going on and on about it.. and I looked at him and in a calm voice stated. “This is ridiculous. Do you hear yourself? Are you mentally off?” And I watched him and I could tell that I had really hit a nerve.. He paused for a second… he was so flustered.. yeah right and it was all because I didn’t say “You’re welcome.” He continued to rant and I just watched.. then when right before I got out of the car.. I said. “You are 57, have no savings, no money and live paycheck to paycheck, you can’t afford a home, have bad credit and all these children to take care of and you are coming down on me beacause I didn’t say “You’re welcome.” Just how twisted is all this? Then I got out of the car and he drove off instead of coming into workout with me. I called him and to pick me up and he is still ranting about how rude that I am. He picks me up and while I was working out he packed up to leave and he left.. That wasn’t the total end of it.. but the deal is that any real confrontation blows them apart.. he focused on putting me down with total trivia to make himself feel superior.. because he felt so inferior and choose to live in his somedays and what if’s…
He has this act of how good and spiritual that he is, how mannerly.. and he believes it and that is why he is convincing, at first..
but he has nothing to offer a woman but his past burdens made by his choices.. and if the woman doesn’t want to take them on then they are rude or ‘bad’ to him…

So he creates the illusion but he also is the illusion..



“‘Are you mentally off?’ And I watched him and I could tell that I had really hit a nerve..”

If you are going to push a button, that is the Mother of all Buttons to push.

You are lucky he did not beat you, or even kill you.

I am being totally serious.
You have to be really careful, especially if you are with one who has poor impulse control.


I’ve been thinking about his focus on “your welcome”.
I think what he noticed most about you is the “grace” which you project to others. He envied that grace and style. He decided that he was not only going to take it, but you were going to be left without it – or at least doubting that you had any.
Initially he was mirroring you and trying to one-up you with his “spirituality”, then he caught you in one slip up, when you didn’t say thank you. He tried to take the opportunity to drive a knife into your self image over this one little thing. That show that he is an amateur. My xP would have been more patient and with time, he would have convinced you to do something degrading or illegal, and THEN used that against you. Mine uses the pity ploy to get the most upstanding people to break the law, (as a favor to him) little stuff, with documents or taxes. Then he starts you down the slippery slope to illegal and degrading activities. He is very patient but the longer it takes the more he builds up rage and hate toward you because he has to cowtow to you during that time. In the end, his hatred toward you justifies destroying you. Bizarre, since if he just been honest, he would never had had to play the stupid game to begin with.

They are 4 year olds with circular logic. That’s why there is no getting to them through that route.


Mine was not physically violent at all. I have never been hit nor would I put up with it for one instant. I attract the emotional and mental cons.. he could verbally annilhate most anyone with his intellect and knowledge. In fact, I punched him once during an argument. He is 6’2″ and I am 5’3″ and he started calling me violent and I am about the least violent of anyone and have never been called that ever. He provokes anger because of his manipulation. But I did look at myself and wonder.. I punched him in the arm.. am I violent? But he called all his exs violent. Were they really? I punch a man that I workout with in the arm playfully and in anger.. and he laughs.. I couldn’t hurt him and he gets it.. This man was overly sensitive. He provoked then when he has a person wired up and they react.. he points at them.
And yes, Skylar he was attacting the essence of me trying to get me to doubt myself anyway that he could. I am mannerly and I am not violent…
Was it his projection? As he is verbally rude and violent in his manipulative way.. very complex stuff..
But as far as illusion.. I think not only do they create the illusion that they want you to see and believe .. I think the good ones become it… like a good actor .. you can’t tell that they are playing a roll.
Hitting is too obvious.. Remember they are all different based on their background, genetics, experieces.. Mine came across like the kindest, most spiritually aware and oh, so refined… so, how could I doubt his intentions.. well, I did and I was
correct! And when I called it out… he blew away.. he couldn’t handle the truth of who that he is. A man that works hard, owes lots, and has much responsiblity.. so he lives in his dreams of the big deal .. and hooks women with resources in with his spiritual and handsome, refined demeaner.


One of my friends ( that has known me for 20 yrs and told me that I am one of the most spiritual, non-violent and polite type people that there could be,k but that doesn’t mean that I won’t stand up for myself) saw it has he won’t allow you to be you and express yourself, be it anger or anything else. He would say at times, say if I disagreed with him or was playfully kidding him, “Is that anyway to talk to the love of your life?”
Well, for one I never told him that he was the love of my life and he certainly wasn’t.. He orchestrated and told me what he wanted me to believe.. like the rude deal.. He is the one that is rude. He butted into my life and called my house his.. is that rude or what.. or is not replying ‘you’re welcome’ to his ‘thank you’ after I had done his laundry.


He wanted me so mannerly, complacent and to doubt myself so much that he and his daughter could come into my world and forced their dsfunction into my life. He wanted me apologsing for not wanting a 20 plus kid of his ex and another man in my life. He wanted me to do his bidding, being his queen with no powers …. He wanted to feel like a king but he has no idea what a real king is…
He didn’t want reality, truth .. he wanted to create it all… when we met. He told me that I came out of his dreams… the way that I look and that we are the same upper-class with manners…blah blah…
Well, he wanted to be me.. he wanted my life. His mother had been wealthy in Argentina but had lost it all and she died in poverty and I helped her in the end..
he lived in the past an in delusions of grandeur that were not his but his mother’s and her father.

like some lost aristocrity… He appears like he has it all and he has nothing.. I mean nothing. And he was flip about money.. I would watch my pennies and plan what I bought. He spent money impulsively and acted like it didn’t matter.. while talking about it all the time.. he wasn’t into reality money.. he was into millions and billions… LOL… and he couldn’t get a new credit card.. owned nothing, had no investments… and slept in a bed that I paid for… But he was going to tell me how to behave and when to say ‘you’re welcome’


I think he was just mirroring you. If you had been a mother teresa then he would be too. Or a trailer tramp, or a police officer or whatever. He isn’t anything, he has no baseline except that of a parasite. That’s because he is a 4 year old child. Children are very malleable and flexible.

But children are attracted to shiny things, and they want everything they don’t have. You looked really shiny to him. He could see the self-esteem in your posture and carriage, and your lifestyle. He envied them so he mirrored them. But it isn’t enough to have these things, he was determined to take them away from you. That’s why he tried to chip away at your self-image. When you punched him, he made a big deal, not because it hurt him, but because he wanted you to see that you had broken out of you normal reserved character. Never mind the fact that he had caused it.


Mine never laid a hand on me, either. No violent tendencies at all. And, I knew him for almost 10 years.
He was always a calm, cool, collected, smooth operator.

However, at the end, when I was backing away from him and the relationship, he started punching walls, slamming doors, firing guns, & destroying my property.
I never saw any of this behavior in the first 8 years of knowing him.
It all surfaced AT THE VERY END!

When someone is destroying everything around you, it is just a matter of time before they get around to YOU, in my opinion.

I believe they are ALL capable of unspeakable violence & harm.
Some are just more “refined” or “higher-functioning” than others.

Yesterday, I read one of Kathleen Hawk’s posts, and she called her ex a “dangerous emotional cripple”.
That is a great way to phrase it, and one of the key words is DANGEROUS.


I think you are correct and thank you for pointing this out.. I went through a phase when I I rude, am I violent.. and that, of course, is what he wanted me to do. And he would comment about how flexible that he is..
The woman who does my hair (we are friends) when she met him commented on how he stepped into her boundaries.. she didn’t like him much. She called him a badger, a tick.. and I notice there are post calling them this…SHe knew how I plotted, planned, saved up and watched what I spent.. then he just move into my life.
He had been married to a woman who molested their daughter for 10 years.. He foudn this out after they were divorced.. but I wondered how could he not see this nature.. being so spiritual, in touch and all, and he claimed that this woman was an alcoholic and came after him with a knife..
So he lived at this level..

Then with me I am berrated for not saying, ‘you’re welcome’ at each appropriate juncture..

so he was a chameleon.. a badger that would fit in were he could and attacks on the level that will do the trick..

reading and writing on this site has really helped me with my porcessing..

Thank you…

Now everyone say “you’re welcome!”



I agree. And I did sense danger from him at times. I felt ill more around him than ever in my life.. just kind of this malaise..
Like I wrote in some other post.. I would lay in bed beside him and pray for God to protect me and to reveal what I need to see and to know.. and it was…
he has this booming voice that he would utilize..
Get this.. he is handsome and I was not sexually attracted to him, he was spiritual and I didn’t feel it. He talked about love all the time and I didn’t feel it. He talked about money all the time and had none.. and I was engaged to this man for about eight months with a fake main diamond in the setting and I have never worn fake ever. Does that tell you, I was brainwashed for while… like in a dream, an illusion.. until I woke up…



I am glad you were able to recognize him for what he was, and that you are here and safe.


yes yes yes – I was afraid of him – afraid to make him leave – he made threats and would say I love you in the same sentence – I wasnt weak , just under his spell and I felt so sorry for him and feared him at the same time – he loved my dogs but I was afraid he would kill them to hurt me – I was afraid he would burn my house down – I hoped and prayed he would find a new victim and leave with out completely destroying me – the times he did leave I would sleep with a gun and hide my wallet – he broke into my house several times and destroyed things – here in Oklahoma the police just laughed at me…thank God he is gone and I have not seen him in 18 months – he’s someone else’s problem now – I still get feelings that he is lurking about but I dont think he is…



Unbelievable that the act like this. The S was 40 years old, an ex-con, living in a bed bug-ridden tenement (which I paid 3 months back rent on, thank you kindly) and had 15 creditor default judgments against him. I’m an attorney and was willing to overlook the record. In addition to his rent, I paid for every date, every trip, every everything. I offered him access to the life he said he wanted — doorman building on the Upper East Side of NYC, charities I’m involved with, etc.

Gratitude? Not on your life. Not only was I mentally bludgeoned, I was constantly reminded just how much people disliked me, etc. And the cherry on the charlotte russe, as my grandmother used to say, was when I took him on a trip to my family’s villa in Greece — and he ripped off a kaftan from my neighbor’s villa. Now, that’s gratitude for ya.


They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They aren’t appreciative because they don’t have it or own it. Mine would say that he didn’t believe in prenups.. why would he, he had nothing.. I didn’t quite realize this in the beginning.. then later he told me that he would sign a prenup..
I never had the intention of every marrying him.. engaged was enough..
If you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.. you have no appreciation…


I can relate to a few of the things you said. I am also afraid of what my son does to the dogs when I am not around.

It is a strange feeling when you can’t be comfortable in your own house nor are you comfortable when you are away from it. That is kind of where I am at right now.


wit I am sorry you have to live like this – thankfully I feel very safe now…but a child like this is another thing – i dont have a clue what to say to you..unless it would be :Beam me up Scotty!”


Witsend – One time when my xS. pulled one of his suicide attempts – I called his mother whom I had never met too talk to her or get some insight as to why he was this way. She Said “He can’t come to my place, I can’t do anything with him and you don’t need to be involved with him because he is a BOOGER.” and hung up the phone! Well I guess that was some insight..


Was she for real? A BOOGER….To funny.

Henry, do you think that your xS suicide attempts were to hurt you because of your sister?

Or do you think he was suicidal?

I would NEVER, ever, tell anyone to not take suicide attempts seriously. When someone threatens suicide to family members and loved ones, several times, after awile they become immune to this. However I know a lady whose mother actually suicided after threatening suicide many times during her life. On this particular day, although she said it many times before, she meant it.
Her family was devastated because of course they didn’t believe her.

But knowing how EVIL P/S/N can be, do you think he did this because of your circumstance or was he suicidal before he met you?


he is a cutter – he had scars on his wrist when I met him. It was his attempt at proving his love to me. He is a cluster B personality disorder. I felt so responsible for him, he forced me to take care of him, wich in away was his way of controling me. He really was/is messed up. Has many issues. He told me he was abandoned my his parents at 2 years old, his sister was 5 at the time and she tried her best to take care of him, until his grandparents came and got them and raised them. Then his super religous grandmother disowned him when he revealed he was gay and kicked him out at 18 years old the day he graduate high school. He was on his own from then on and from what I have peiced together has lived with one man after the other, never staying in a relationship long , the longest was 6 years. But to answer your question No I dont think it had anything to do with my sister – it was a form of manipulation – also cutters do this to escape reality. Any way Witsend I dont know if any of what he told me about his childhood is truth or not. I did tell his mom he had told me she abandoned him and she denied it and said his father had but not her. My X did talk of fond memories of growing up with his grandparents tho – he adored his grand father. But yes his mother said he was a Booger and she said my daughter is just like him, she said she didnt know why her kids were that way…


Ahh I see that I didn’t see the last reply you made. Sometimes when the thread is lost on the main page I loose track.

He really does have a “story” behind him doesn’t he? And of course as you say you don’t know how much of it is true. How much of it was fact and how much was his perception of it as a child and how much of it became tangled up in actual lies as he told the story as an adult. That is probably the REAL question here.

There seems to be a very common thread of abandonment issues with S/P/N disorder……

I am REALLY struggling with this right now. My very FIRST instinct when I saw troubling personality traits in my son, was that very thing. He has underlying abandonment issues from when his father suicided. It occured to me that he “shut down” on that tragic day because he was there alone with him for many hours, before I arrived after my shift at work.
His abandonment issues could also include me. He was a very scared and tramatized child and I was NOT THERE for him at this time of need.
I don’t know, I don’t think this takes a rocket scientist to figure out. When he went into counseling it seems to me that this would at least been something they would have EXPLORED with him. I was very disappointed to find his counselor did not.
Suicide is a dark place to explore. I realize this as I had to explore it myself during my own therapy. But if my therapist avoided it, I wouldn’t have been able to deal with my underlying feelings about it either.

My personal struggle now seems to be with PERCEPTION……The key seems to be how a child percieves information. If something doesn’t really “SHUT DOWN” early on in the childs brain and things don’t process (normally) after that.

One of the things that we all struggle to understand about this disorder is the lack of empathy, of being able to FEEL love. We are giving our love, why can’t they feel it?

The hardest part for me to look at in my son is his hatred for me. How did that manifest within him? What is HIS perception of his childhood (after the suicide) that warrants that hatred?

What manifests hatred? It’s hard to digest this.


Witsend…In my experience with a S with deep rooted issues of abandonment…YES we are giving our love…so why can’t they feel it?

I believe they have had such trauma in the past with those they love that they shut down and choose (whether is consciously or not) to never feel or love again. They were so betrayed or violated that in turn, they only know how to express those feelings back to the wolrd. They never really get over those issues and if not dealt with properly, they shut down emotionally, thus turing them into P/S/N. For my S, his aunt was babysitting him when he was a todler and he woulnd’t stop crying so she laid a hot clothes iron across his legs to shut him up. Traumatizing? YES! And his mother used to beat him senseless and when he developed behavioral issues as a teen, she sent him to CA (they lived in England) to live with other family members because he became so difficult. Now his mom is super religious and she denies ever laying a finger on him. She sits in front of her TV all day watching Christian television and spending all of her time at the church and wanting to pray for him because she now feels that he’s a bad person. My ex has serious resentment for her and I believe took all his aggression out on other women. Women have always been disposable to him. He would not allow another women to abandon him, instead he would take advantage of and destoy them the way his aunt and mother did. Sometimes I feel like it was his way of getting even, whether he realized it or not.

My ex KNEW he had abandonment issues, and had no problem telling me ALLLL about them. But I think they choose to not ever be hurt again (whether is consciously or not) but shutting down completely, building walls and never letting anyone else to get so close so that they can’t be hurt. My ex said he couldn’t allow himself to love me they way I loved him because if he did, I would turn around and leave him. Instead he would sabatoge everything he touched, pushing me away, not allowing himself to FEEL. He flat out told me he didn’t want to FEEL. And that pissed me off more than was like he was on the verge of “seeing the light.” If he could just let go, then things would be different.

But we have to realized that they don’t ever see that light. They don’t want to see it, they don’t want to let go. They would rather drive themselves to the edge and wallow in their self pity, only to take advantage of those that want to help or to love them. Feeling and love are too scary for them. But I really think that deep down that’s all they really want, is to be loved. They just don’t know how to let it happen or how to feel it. I think that’s why my ex was so suicidal. It must be a miserable existence knowing that you’re too afraid to love. It’s how we as humans survive. It’s essential for us to be happy. That’s why they are never happy, they have lost this human emotion to love or feel empathy.

I’m sorry your son is filled with so much hatred, and yes it must be hard to digest, but sometimes you have to realize that their is nothing left for you to do. You know that you still have the ability to love and feel and be free, and although he is your son, it’s not worth you sacrificing your sanity to figure out why he chooses not to love and feel, and spew hatred. But we’re here for you, stay strong. And live your life for you! Life is too short to let the negative rule your existence. Reading other people’s stories, and having their advice and comfort has really helped. You’re not pick yourself up and LIVE, LOVE and FEEL!! HUGS.

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