Defense attorneys for Jerry Sandusky, the former assistant football coach at Penn State who is accused of molesting 10 boys, may argue that the man suffers from histrionic personality disorder. So what is it? Lovefraud readers sent links to articles that explain:
What is histrionic personality disorder? on CNN.com.
What is histrionic personality disorder? on Health.Yahoo.net.
I finally woke up this morning with a little bit of relief. I am just in grief and shock, and worried about my next conversation with my sister, where I will tell her that I have to KNOW that she will no longer pass on information about me to my 2 disordered family members, or believe any more lies and manipulation from them, or I will not be able to trust her EITHER. If she values my relationship with her, she will listen to me. I have to do this for my SURVIVAL, because without an understanding with her, I just feel TERRIFIED and exposed and I will not live that way any longer.
I already sent my brother the letter, and told her about it and why – that I cannot have a relationship with someone who lies to me and uses other people. I will be doing the same with my sister. It really made me feel better to send my brother that letter, and especially when his response CONFIRMED every suspicion I had. My mother was callous, but we had a close relationship all my life, and she would do thoughtful and loving things for me. She could be my best friend in a lot of ways, and we talked about everything, including her past. She knew that she made mistakes, but her disorder caused her to have little or no insight into WHY she made the choices she did, or WHY she would have such terrible, rage reactions when you questioned her about anything. She was very socially proficient in some ways – all of our friends always thought she was the cool mom, or their second mom, but they never saw the side of her that we did, the contempt, rage, and silent treatment. But she worked hard, and always told us how talented and smart we all were, and that we could do anything we wanted to. It could have been worse.
It was the actions of my SIBLINGS that caused me to break with her, otherwise, I could put up with her behavior because it was so childish. But she was never deliberately EVIL like my siblings have been. She was just totally blind to her own shortcomings.
When I went back to live at home for those two years, we had many heart-to-hearts and she was always honest with me. That’s when I learned about my father’s abuse of her, which was corroborated by my aunt (his sister, who attested to the EXTREME abuse both of them suffered at the hands of my grandmother, who was a psychotic, sadistic person), and my sister would tell me – don’t you remember when Mom woke us up in the middle of the night, to leave the house and stay with her sister, to get away from my father after he had beaten her?? I had no memory of that at all. He was an alcoholic who also abused drugs (he had access as a psychiatrist) and one time was even arrested after he became psychotic and paranoid, and chased my mother out of the house with a knife. I think my mother was definitely messed up by a lot of what he did to her. He even beat her up when she was pregnant with my sister! Locked her out of the house when it was snowing outside, the stories were awful! And she never thought to leave him! I asked her if he was ever sorry after he had beaten her up, because you hear that about abusers, but I was pretty shocked to find out that he NEVER apologized to her or expressed any remorse for what he had done!
I’m not offended by any questions about memories or pseudo memories, I understand that memories can be malleable, and people can be told lies as if they are truth, or given explanations of things that have no basis in reality. I am just trying to understand what has happened to me, and every question is valid. I am so grateful that I can talk to people who have had similar experiences to my own. I have spent YEARS in therapy, probably about 8 or 9 years total, and still could not recognize how disordered people in my family were! Most of my therapy was about coping with chronic illness and pain, and to keep me emotionally in a place where I could cope, and not get too depressed to survive.
My current therapist, who is a specialist in chronic illness, tells me I’m a survivor. She has a kind of dry, cynical humor about the stories I tell her, which validate that anyone would have a difficult time after having the experiences I’ve had! I’m sure many people she counsels are chronically ill for a reason, like I am. Now it looks as though my niece, 17, is becoming chronically ill. I found out from my sister (she had been hiding it from me) that her husband had become a severe alcoholic over the past five years. He had an alcoholic father and brother, both dead. So this drama goes on and on.
I didn’t know that I had endometriosis, which is an auto-immune disease, since high school, when I began to have severe cramps and pain. Because of my mother’s neglect, and her diagnosis that it was irritable bowel like she had, I basically thought it was nothing serious for 25 years, until the pain became too excruciating for me to function, and multiple surgeries did not help. I got fibromyalgia, another auto-immune disorder, when I was 31 years old. I have noticed that MANY MANY people on this board have fibromyalgia, and that is no coincidence! There have been studies out for a while now showing that women who have chronic illness experienced trauma in childhood. They are more frequently sufferers of chronic pain. I also saw a study that said 30% of women with endometriosis get fibromyalgia – which was a stunning amount! One auto-immune disease leads to another. Chronic stress in childhood has a permanent effect on your health. I have suffered anxiety and depression since childhood. None of this is coincidence. So I now fear for my niece, that she may have endometriosis. She was treated for depression last year, a response to her father’s alcoholism. So I really fear for her! My sister put her on antidepressants – she told her it was either meds or therapy, she had to do one. I think she needs therapy, because her illness is a reaction to the situation she is in as well as her genetic heritage – two grandfathers, an aunt on the maternal side and an uncle on the paternal side are alcoholics! My sister told me she may not even be able to catch up for her junior year! I have told her my concerns regarding the health issues, that I have had lifelong depression, endometriosis, and fibromyalgia, and that I am concerned about these things for her. That’s all I can do, but I think this girl needs a therapist, too. My sister is a psych nurse, and she has never had much therapy herself, until she and her husband started couples counseling to save her marriage. So she has a lot on her plate, plus a stressful job where she travels all the time. I can’t tell you how distraught i feel to see that history could be repeating itself!
But I don’t have control over anything except how I react to situations. And I will be honest, and I will not be in denial, and I will no longer make excuses for people, and I will no longer tolerate relationships with people who lie to me, don’t listen to me, or betray me. Now that narrows my whole world down to about 3 people! My rheumatologist, my therapist, and my massage therapist, who is a sweetheart and a friend. My sister is tentatively on that list. She is important to me, we were always friend, and it’s obvious to me now that my siblings resented that, and resented my relationship with my mother too! I think they had some crazy idea that i got off easy, or had it better than they did! That makes them crazy right there!
I can really relate to what Skylar says “I didn’t know what emotional abuse was. To me, emotional abuse was just normal everyday relationshits.”
Freudian slip? Relation-shits!? Didn’t see that the first time!
Anyhow, yes, I had no idea that my mother was emotionally abusive to me until the last couple of years, and that every relationship I’ve been in my whole life was with someone who was either narcissistic or personality-disordered. That seemed normal to me. I was a sucker for punishment! Even my last relationship, which was better in a lot of ways, crashed and burned after he became emotionally abusive to me. I have only realized that it was abusive about six months ago, and I lived with him for ten years!!
It’s clear to me now. I just seemed to enjoy beating my head against brick walls, thinking that I could fix anything, if I had the will and the perseverance, which I certainly did have! I spent half my life on lost causes!
I have been alone for seven years now, and still don’t feel anywhere close to being able to function in a relationship. There’s no trust left in me, and I am very fearful since I have been through so much. I came to fear even making a decision, because every decision seemed to turn out badly! PTSD can do that to you, make you afraid that anything you might do, anyone you might trust, could be a big mistake! I have not been very fortunate that way.
The experience of moving in with a roommate who began stealing my pain meds was a bad one! I remember thinking how could ANYONE be this unlucky??!! It still baffles me! She was a pathological liar, but it took me at least a year to see it, and by that time I was so depressed about going NC with my mother and family that I could barely function, much less find another place to live. I was at her mercy, because I was too sick to leave, and had no one to help me! That experience made me extremely ill for a year. Such a track record doesn’t not instill confidence in my ability to recognize who the bad people are!
I have directories full of articles like this – sorry I don’t have the URL!
Abuse in Childhood Linked to Migraine and Other Pain Disorders
ScienceDaily (Jan. 6, 2010) Researchers from the American Headache Society’s Women’s Issues Section Research Consortium found that incidence of childhood maltreatment, especially emotional abuse and neglect, are prevalent in migraine patients. The study also found that migraineurs reporting childhood emotional or physical abuse and/or neglect had a significantly higher number of comorbid pain conditions compared with those without a history of maltreatment.
(Childhood maltreatment was reported by 58% of the patients. Emotional abuse was associated with increased prevalence of IBS, CFS, arthritis, and physical neglect with arthritis. In women, physical abuse was associated with endometriosis and physical neglect with uterine fibroids. Emotional abuse, and physical abuse and neglect (P < .0001 for all) were also associated with increased total number of comorbid conditions.)
Full findings of the study appear in the January issue of Headache: The Journal of Head and Face Pain, published on behalf of the American Headache Society by Wiley-Blackwell.
According to a report by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, state and local child protective services (CPS) investigated 3.2 million reports of child abuse or neglect in 2007. CPS classified 794,000 of these children as victims with 59% classified as child neglect; 4% were emotional abuse; 8% as sexual abuse; and 11% were physical abuse cases. Both population- and clinic-based studies, including the current study, have demonstrated an association between childhood maltreatment and an increased risk of migraine chronification years later.
To conduct this study, Gretchen E. Tietjen, M.D, from the University of Toledo Medical Center, and colleagues, recruited a cross-sectional survey of headache clinic patients with physician-diagnosed migraine at 11 outpatient headache centers. Childhood maltreatment was assessed using the Childhood Trauma Questionnaire (CTQ), a 28-item self-reported quantitative measure of childhood abuse (physical, sexual, and emotional) and neglect (physical and emotional). Self-reported physician-diagnosed history of comorbid pain conditions such as irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), interstitial cystitis (IC), and arthritis was recorded on the survey.
A total of 1348 patients diagnosed with migraine completed the surveys. Researchers found migraineurs who reported childhood emotional abuse or physical neglect had a significantly higher incidence of comorbid pain conditions compared with those without a history of maltreatment. In the study population, 61% had at least 1 comorbid pain condition and 58% reported experiencing childhood trauma either by abuse or neglect. The number of different maltreatment types suffered in childhood correlated with the number of comorbid pain in adulthood.
****Specifically, physical abuse was associated with a higher incidence of arthritis; emotional abuse was linked to a greater occurrence of IBS, CFS, FM, and arthritis; and physical neglect connected with more reports of IBS, CFS, IC, and arthritis. In women, physical abuse and physical neglect was associated with endometriosis (EM) and uterine fibroids, emotional abuse with EM, and emotional neglect with uterine fibroids.****
"Our study found that while childhood maltreatment is associated with depression, the child abuse-adult pain relationship is not fully mediated by depression," explained Dr. Tietjen. Results from this study, as well as three recent population-based studies, indicate that associations of maltreatment and pain were independent of depression and anxiety, both of which are highly prevalent in this population.
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Says it right there! IBS, Endometriosis, FMS, Migraines, and in a separate article INFLAMMATION (auto-immune) and heart disease!
Even emotional abuse ends up physically abusing you, for life!
Dear 7steps,
When first one psychopath and then another latches on to us, taking the “wind out of our sails” it IS difficult to get your feet back on the ground and get yourself moving….yep, you CAN DO IT THOUGH!
There is enough knowledge and things to be learned here at LF that if you read til you go blind of old age, you couldn’t take it all in, but you can take in enough to get you started toward healing.
The road toward healing starts out about learning about THEM, but it ends up learning about OURSELVES. Learning how to set boundaries and say “NO” to people who want to abuse us, and to recognize the RED FLAGS OF FRAUD whether it is love bombing or pity ploys….learning to recongnize when someone is being dishonest. As Dr. robert Hare says in the Fishhead movie “it takes time” to learn to recognize them and no one can spot one quickly, it takes being around someone and seeing what they are doing and saying before you can see that the two things do/say don’t mesh. Most psychopaths take time to show their true colors because they MASK them at first.
So learn to set boundaries and to say NO! and to take care of yourself first! ((((Hugs))))
7 steps,
RelationSHITS is a word coined by Hens, a blogger here. It’s fricken PERFECT.
I have a “good” sister too. But I went NC, without a word, because she just doesn’t get it. She keeps talking about me with the other family members. She doesn’t understand evil.
I stopped trying to convince her. As far as she is concerned, I don’t have a phone and don’t use that email anymore. I’m not even going to bother giving her the whys and wherefores.
You’re not unlucky, you’re just like the rest of us, stuck repeating the same old programming because that’s all you know. Stick around here, read, read, read and don’t stop reading the posts, the comments and any books you can get your hands on. When you aren’t doing that, google search terms on psychopathy, cog/diss, cluster b’s. Keep learning. That’s the ONLY way to break free of the illusions that are set up to keep us imprisoned.
7 steps we posted over each other….your link above to that article about what the abuse does to us is very RIGHT ON…abuse = stress and stress=health problems. Look up the “holmes and Rahe stress scale” and you will see the research these people and others have done on the effects of stress and how it causes the body to not be able to fight disease.
We have to take charge of our lives and to decrease the stress by stopping being around these people who cause such stress in our lives, we call it NO CONTACT and at first it feels funny….odd even…but it keeps us away from them, FAR AWAY and keeps us from being repeatedly injured and reinjured.
We have to look at new people in our lives and not give them trust instantly. We have to watch and see what kind of person they are and it may take weeks, months or even eyars before we can truly know them well enough to trust them. It is called self preservation.
Keep on learning, and know that you are NOT ALONE. THE LOVE FRAUD MOB IS HERE WITH YOU! We get it! (((hugs)))
7 steps,
As Oxy recommended, just keep reading here and you’ll find a wealth of information.
I also highly recommend the book “In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People” by George K. Simon: http://www.amazon.com/In-Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Manipulative/dp/1935166301
It was my first primer on how to recognize, and deal with disordered people. It changed my world – literally. I can’t recommend it highly enough. Also, for the workplace, “The No Asshole Rule” by Bob Sutton.
Grace (and Oxy), thanks for the pointer to Oxy’s article: http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2012/06/15/taking-care-of-ourselves%e2%80%94first/ It’s good advice.
Unfortunately I stink at self-care, even moreso when I’m healing and the triggers are acting up. Oxy, I hope you (or someone) will consider writing a follow-up ‘how-to’ manual for self-care for CA survivors. The one point that no-one seems to talk about (yet) is what to do when you have triggers (conditioned fear response) associated with self-care tasks. In one of the articles I linked to they mentioned that survivors of oral rape often have problems with dental care due to triggers, but no-one ever seems to make that same assoication with other types of child abuse – particularly early childhood abuse which most often happens in the home, and during child-care activities: bathing, eating, dressing, washing, etc…
Annie, and others, perhaps it’s just a throwback from bad times, but “self-care” has always seemed like an indulgence. Probably part of the shame-core, I guess.
I would also love to see a self-care article, OxD. Not an article that says, “You need to take care of yourself,” but actual steps that one can take to begin the experience of self-care – CARING about one’s Self. THAT would be priceless!
Thanks for the ((((hugs)))) Oxy! What you have endured is truly an inspiration to me! I have been through an EXTREME learning curve over the last few years, and LOVEFRAUD and the people’s honesty about their stories has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR to me, in a way no therapist or book has, about what is EVIL and unacceptable, and how you have to protect yourself FIRST! The way I was raised was to pretend that nothing bad was ever happening to you, and to NEVER question an adult, whatever they might say or do. That was not being POLITE! Not a good way to learn what boundaries are.
I have noticed my whole life that I cannot STAND to be around anyone who is angry, it’s like I ABSORB THEIR FEELINGS THROUGH MY SKIN. Talk about not having boundaries! I did not understand why I could not detach myself from having such EXTREME DISCOMFORT around other people’s emotions. I think I got married because I could not stand to live with other people, because I was so worried about standing up for myself, and never wanting to express any sort of dissatisfaction with someone else. The thought of anyone being angry with me makes me physically ill, because of the way my mother controlled us with her rages, and never taught us how to protect ourselves from other people! I now realize that she probably had the exact same sort of severe anxiety that I had, because for the last 20 years of her life she had few friends, and would often tell me of her complete dislike of any sort of groups or organizations. I am exactly the same way! I had a successful career before I got sick, but I would always have severe anxiety at walking into a room full of people. I had good people skills and I was always well-liked, but I could not understand why I would have a reaction like that. I could override it, and function normally, but always at a cost.
After I got really sick and disabled, that anxiety became full-blown agoraphobia, and almost paranoia at going out where I felt that people would be watching me. I did not feel safe!
I spent a whole year like that, in 2011. I finally started getting better with the therapy and massage, but I still occasionally have relapses where I feel I am going to jump out of my skin. The whole last week has been like that, and it seizes up my digestive system and drains me of energy so I can barely eat or sit up straight. You should see my startle reflex! It could power an entire neighborhood!
But I am sure everyone here knows those feelings! What my family has been through, and what I have been through, is not over yet. My blowout with my brother a couple months ago empowered me, but also made me afraid I would be judged and rejected again by my “good” sister! Fear of abandonment is a terrible thing.
Skylar, I can identify so much with what you’re saying:
“I have a “good” sister too. But I went NC, without a word, because she just doesn’t get it. She keeps talking about me with the other family members. She doesn’t understand evil.”
I will not hesitate to do that if I have to. I already did it once with the whole family, and I just did it with my brother, regardless of the consequences, because FOR ME it was the right thing to do. I split with my mother for EXACTLY the reason you gave, because she would not stop passing on details about my life to people who wouldn’t even speak to me! I laid down the law with her, but she was not capable of understanding that.
I was there for my sister six months ago, when she thought she was going to have to kick her alcoholic husband out of the house. I think she understands me better now, and has respect for my input and support. But I expect the same from her in return! And I will be absolutely clear about that. I have to make sure I am absolutely clear with her, before I drop the bomb on my little sister. I had to wait until she verbally acknowledged that something was F’d up, which she finally did. So I am experiencing a lot of anxiety as a result, because I am afraid that little sister still has a lot of power in that relationship. This woman is a PSYCHIATRIST, believe it or not!! My sister has always deferred to her, even when what she said was total bullshit! I don’t know if it’s a nurse/doctor thing, or just my sister’s vulnerability! But she’s out for herself, she does NOTHING that doesn’t benefit her directly in some way.
I feel bad for my two nephews, who are innocent bystanders. I told my sister, finally, that little sister had not acknowledged a single xmas or birthday present I sent to her children FOR YEARS! That didn’t make her look too good, in a family where people are ANAL about always sending thank-you notes! My sister is beginning to get the picture. I will still send gifts to my nephews, because I do not want them to forget that I will always care about them. Their father befriended me on FB, when his ex-wife, my own sister, would not!
She outed herself with her own passive-aggressive need to punish me in some way. At xmas I sent 2 separate packages, one for each set of kids, and the addresses got garbled, and each family got the packages that were for the other. My sister, being conscientious and thoughtful as she usually is, made sure that my little sister’s boys, her nephews, got the right package from me before Christmas. Little sister, on the other hand, appeared not to care whether her own nience and nephew got theirs – I would remind my sister every time I talked to her, “did your kids ever get their presents?” and the answer was always no, it’s been a REALLY long time, hasn’t it?
The longer this went on, the angrier I got, but I kept my cool, and made suggestions – can’t she just mail it to you? They both live within 20 miles of each other, and both are busy. But their is no excuse for such behavior, and my sister knows it! She FINALLY went over to little sister’s house to get my mother’s ashes, which we were going to spill into the harbor when she came to visit. She said, that’s really ridiculous, isn’t it? It’s JUNE! That’s when I told her about the complete stonewalling regarding all the other gifts!
Little sister thinks she’s smarter than everyone else, but since her need to punish me ended up punishing her won niece and nephew by withholding their xmas gifts from them, she has finally done something TANGIBLE to disgrace herself, like my brother has. Hopefully, it will be enough. This same conversation was when my sister said – she scapegoated you!
I had to wait for the light bulb to go off in her head, so I wouldn’t sound like I was just trying to be divisive or mean.
She could care less about her own niece and nephew! That really made me angry! I wanted them to get their xmas gifts AT CHRISTMAS!! And she purposely denied me of that small joy!
“THE LOVE FRAUD MOB IS HERE WITH YOU!”
I LOVE that!!
Annie, that was an eye-opening article! The part about medical procedures casing flashbacks to trauma was something I haven’t ever seen before, but can relate to. The dental work thing is a huge problem for me. I now understand that an auto-immune disorder can cause your teeth to rot out of your head at an early age, and I get so fatigued to the point where even brushing my teeth can seem like too much. I never had that problem until my fatigue and pain became disabling. I just cannot function like a normal person, no matter how good my intentions. The inertia is crippling!
I had to have a tooth taken out a few months ago, and it was a horrible ordeal! I got dry socket, and severe jaw spasms that locked up half my body for a month! I could do almost NOTHING for 3 weeks! I don’t know how I’ll get through that again, because my body just can’t take it! I’ve never had a colonoscopy or a gynecological exam for the last 8 years, because I have had colon spasms and vaginal spasms related to the surgeries and physical trauma from the fibro and endo.
I believe I had scar tissue that developed into gastro-paresis, where my colon didn’t function right for a year. None of these things will kill me, but they have worn me out. The stress of the last week has brought those symptoms back.
Getting to the massage therapist helped my system start to work normally. I was really sick when I started, and was getting a lot better until this tooth episode. It’s tough when there is NOBODY to get your back. If I don’t do it myself, it won’t happen. I am trying to get a better backup system. I found out about VisitingAngels online. I have got to get help for when i become incapacitated like that. It’s scary!
There comes a time when being too self-reliant becomes hazardous to your health!