“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
Dear Liane,
You made it all seem so simple…WORDS vs. ACTIONS! And, really, it IS actually almost that simple, it is getting our heads (what we see and is logical) to over ride our hearts (and what we WANT TO SEE and is emotional.)
I’m currently in the middle of two books on just that subject of using logic to over ride our poor emotional responses.
Here is my example of a disconnect between words and deeds:
Spath’s sister had custody of his son since the son’s mother was ill with a heart condition. Spath never held a seady job and had never paid child-support, and his sister, having four kid’s of her own was having trouble making ends meet. Spath angrily says that his X should be paying child support and he thinks he’s going to take her to court…(shakes head in wonderment.)
Another example: I am working as a waitress in a job I particularly dis-like. Am working grave-yards and doubles just to keep a roof over our heads…as I said before, Spath won’t work…I am angry that I am the only one who is bearing any responsibility, and that I amover-whelmed…I am complaining about this, and Spath says, “Kim, EVERYBODY has to work for a living.” Are you out of your ever-lovin” mind?
They are absolutley incapable of seeing themselves…they are like vampires, they have no reflection.
I have also become aware of this phenomenon: If I buy into Spath’s BS Spaths BS becomes reality. For example: Spath would always return as if his dasterdly deeds had never happened and all was right with the world…if I confrontedhim we went round and round over and over again. If I didn’t confront him, then his image was intact, and he really WAS a pretty good guy after-all. NO WIN situation.
So so glad to be free.
Oh, Kimmie, you make me LAUGH SO HARD MY EYES WATER!!! I swear I am having trouble getting my breath! I can SEE him talking about how “everyone has to work, so quit yer bitchin'” EVeryone EXCEPT HIM of course, cause he didn’t have to work, HE HAD YOU!!!!! TO WORK FOR HIM!!!! LOL ROTFLMAO
And him taking his son’s mother to court for child support when the reason she wasn’t taking care of the kid was she was too ill to!!!! Never even DAWNED on him that HE should pay support! OUT OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY! LOL ROTFLMAO Oh, Kimmie! The BS we buy is so transparent and yet we buy it anyway. Talk about a “pig in a poke”!!!!
(Head nodding here) Kimmie, you nailed it with those great examples! Thanks for giving me a great laugh! I know AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED it was NOT funny, but now that we can LOOK BACK, we can laugh together at what we put up with!
I’m glad you’re free of him too, Kim!!! TOWANDA!!!!
Liane,
Going back over your article, it makes me think about the “workings” of a psychopath, especially one in the “high end” of the spectrum, such as my P-son or my P-sperm donor.
A couple of years ago when my P son wanted a surgery on his shoulder which had been repeatedly injured in prison fights and the PA and APN in the medical department wouldn’t let him see the MD so he could present his case, he had a copy of his medical records sent to me, and then asked me to contact the physician by letter and telephone and see if I could get the surgery arranged. I did and he got his shoulder surgery and had ankle and wrist surgeries scheduled but I’m not sure if he ever actually had those surgeries.
In any case, in preparation for the parole hearing, I was actually reading through these medical records, and actually found where he had been listed by one of the practitioners as “High in ASPD traits” and also found where he had CONNED the psych therapist there about his “heavy grief” issues—he told her his “nephew” had died and he was so torn up. Well, the “nephew” he was talkin about was my other son’s STEP son that the P son had never met, or communicated with in any way! LOL
In these medical records every time he was put in solitary he had a physical and mental exam and had to fill out a form. He put on the form for Education level that he had a “BS in Computer Science”—well, for a kid who dropped out of high school his senior year, got a GED in prison (twice) and had never taken a single college course or been out of prison/jail more than a few months at a time—-(which any staff there could have checked in his record) HOW ON EARTH COULD HE HAVE A BS IN COMPUTER SCIENCE? Now I don’t doubt that he had edeucated himself and probably had as much computer knowledge as most people with a BS in CS but he wanted to IMPRESS THE GUARDS that were throwing him in solitary for breaking the rules! He wanted them to think he was “better” than the average “dumb convict.” That was very important to him.
“They will lie when the truth would fit better.”
Sure, my son IS smart. He had every opportunity to go to every gifted and talented program offered—so how’d he use them? He cut class and stole things from our friends, from us, and from strangers. He went to jail, then skipped out on bail instead of graduate with his class from High School.
He didn’t have to steal–he had most of the things that any kid could want…a computer when few kids had them, a fine horse to ride, pilot lessons, a step father who liked to spend time with him, and sharing his knowledge. Parents who valued education and would have assisted him to whatever degrees he wanted to attain.
What we would NOT allow him to have though that he wanted was a motor cycle as long as he lived in our home. So he stole one and kept it at a friend’s house. Until the cops caught him. Though he had been taught to shoot when he was very young, we wouldn’t let him carry a gun, so he stole one from a customer of ours and took it to school to show off, until THANKFULLY one of the kids he showed it to had sense enough to tell the school cop, who came to me.
Everything in his life was about “impressing” others with what he had, or what he could/would do. Impressing others with him being a “billy bad ass” on his stolen crotch-rocket with his stolen gun in his pocket. Not very impressive to most people actually. It would have been much more “impressive” to ask his girl friend if she’d like to go to the prom in a helicopter instead of a limo, which would have been something he COULD have done, instead of romping around with the stolen MC and then going to jail.
But it is all about the image that THEY think is “cool” and not what is actually impressive—like a PhD, or an Airline Transport Rating, or honesty, courage and back bone, the ability to love and be empathetic. Those are IMPRESSIVE things, not “hot” rides or highly risky behaviors that land you in prison.
It was so difficult for me to fathom that his moral compass, his idea of “what’s cool, and what’s not” was 180 degrees off of what I thought was “cool” and exciting and adventurous and fun! He could have had it “all” and still stayed out of jail, but he opted for the “impression” of it, not the REALITY of it. So now I can get two new bumper stickers, “My kid is an honor student at the state correctional facility” and the “My kid can beat up your honor student.” Don’t that make me proud!
This is a very good article. And goes back to that inner knowing that is felt when talking to a sociopath. You feel like something it off.. then you know it.
If you listen to the first rumblings inside yourself,you can avoid lots of pain.
http://blog.womenexplode.com/2010/09/02/recent-murder-hits-close-to-home.aspx
From the article above, “To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.”
This is so crucial.
Pay attention when someone is talking to you, and really LISTEN to what they are saying!!
I would also add the LOGIC of a psychopath’s dialogue is also very selfish and twisted at times.
So, try to also pay attention to the LOGIC of what they are saying.
Sometimes it’s so incoherent, you can not even follow it.
They are brilliant at spinning conversations, making themselves out to be the “innocent” victim at all times.
They are also great at displaying self-righteous superiority when they are close to being challenged in a meaningful way…while simultaneously shaming the victim.
There is no such thing as talking to a psychopath.
Psychopaths view conversation as a method of CONTROL.
A conversation with a psychopath is nothing more than a POWER STRUGGLE.
I think that’s why people complain of feeling “drained” and like they are not being heard after engaging with a psycho.
That’s because it was not a real conversation.
It was a power struggle, and the psychopath never backs down in that situation…no matter how ridiculous he/she may look or sound.
The only way to control dialogue with a psychopath is to exit the conversation.
Don’t worry about getting the last word with a paychopath.
Sometimes getting the last word is going No Contact.
I think another mistake people make is treating each mis-deed of the psychopath as an isolated incident.
They will never be able to fit the pieces of the puzzle together, because they are only looking at one part of the picture.
Sometimes you need to step back and look at the big picture.
I look at psychopathy as more of a syndrome, where each incident feeds into a larger picture of what’s actually going on.
I think that’s why some people think they will never encounter a psychopath, or that it will never happen to them.
It’s because these types of people are unable to look at the totality of a person.
They are also uneducated about personality disorders, so they don’t know what to listen for in conversation, either.
They only see what they want to see, and they don’t believe it will ever happen to them.
This is a very bad combination, leaving them extremely vulnerable and a nice juicy target for a predator.
Example of disconnect between words and actions: Whenever I would catch my ex boyfriend in a lie or cheating, the first (self-righteous) words out of his mouth were, “When I was married, I NEVER cheated on my wife!!!”
He knew how much I wanted to be married, and he painted this FANTASY in my head that we would be married SOMEDAY and we would “have it all”.
So, when he was caught, he played to the fantasy instead of the REALITY of what was actually going on at the time.
In hindsight, I believe he was also implying that if we were married, there would be no more cheating.
I see this as sinister, because we all know if a man cheats before marraige, he will cheat after marriage, right?
Thank God my mother and grandmother pounded that principle into my head as a young girl.
I was never able to get past the cheating, and finally found my way out.
I’m ashamed to say it, but I fell for that crap over and over and over again.
I don’t know what to say except that I was young and naive back then…..that’s my excuse and I’m sticking with it.
Good stuff in this article. I’m ordering this book.
Rosa, you are so RIGHT! about looking at the BIG and ENTIRE picture.
“John is SUCH A GOOD GUY, when he is NOT ROBBING BANKS.”
John may be the best guy in the world, the best little league coach and father, the most faithful husband, but if he is robbing banks on the side, it DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHAT HE IS GOOD AT. Look at TED BUNDY, great friend, etc. when he WAS NOT KILLING AND RAPING.
Sometimes psychopaths can act like “great guys” while they are living the “masked life,” but the OTHER THEM is a MONSTER of horrible proportions. I think that is a big part of what confuses some people when the MASKED SIDE IS UN-MASKED, like the BTK killer, John Wayne Gacy etc. Because they only saw the “masked person” and never the UN-masked, they cannot conceive that the TOTAL PICTURE is all FAKE and the REAL them is what was behind the mask.
Good examples, Rosa. I think your XS’s statement that He never cheated when he was married served several puposes…it dangled a carrot in front of your eyes, something he knew you wanted, it reinforced your insecurity because, after all You weren’t married, it made you believe that if you were, he wouldn’t cheat, or that he was capable of not cheating, and by inference, almost said that until and unless he was married, HE WOULD CHEAT. It probably made you wonder why he wasn’t marrying you. Scum bag. I’m so glad you dumped him. YOU DESERVE BETTER.
Thanks Liane for this acknowledgment of the women/men themselves to know the ‘feeling’ of being worked as opposed to a checklist!!!!Oh I’ve been “worked” alright…and I know what it feels like…does that mean I’m immune? probably not (even if the Pope of Psychiatry told me I’m immune I’d be suspicious) lol
This site has really helped me work with this stuff so that I really do feel as if I’m growing, learning, expressing myself in a quiet (sometimes not so quiet) way. I have been influenced by posters here in many different ways, but I carry their essence with me now and call on it often…Gem, Geminigirl, bluejay, Chinagirl, Hens,
verity, delta1….just spoilt for choice in quality posters!!!!
OxDrover allowed me the luxury and the right to say “no” to friends, put to rest tired outworn relationships that had ‘died’
One step gives me the feeling of expansion and determination in the face of much pain…some spirit that just will not give up!
Kim Frederick and her soul searching has really parrallells with my own and it’s great to think another inch along with her
Donna and her outrageous bubblyness that seems to just be getting started!! how out of hiding you are, out of the shame in the open, tall and proud.
what you guys say makes me feel PART of a greater whole, being alone is a thing of the past….eh why Am I writing this like I’m about to retire or something…no way, I stay! just appreciative of you all so much…thank you
I named myself fearless because that is where I want to be, not where I am. My encounter with a soc has so damaged my faith in humanity that I do not trust strangers in any capacity & truly don’t trust the soc whom I have feared would have ended our relationship tragically had I not begun to see the light and got him out. I believe this encounter was an incredible life lesson of great value. My blind trust is the goodness of people is gone. I have an armor now. I have tuned into my gut and I don’t even look at those I identify as dangerous/evil. It’s not the way they may look or dress; it’s what they might say, a tone or facial expression and I am in chain mail.
Dr. Leedon is right on–Don’t give them any insight into what it is to have a heart. No visible reaction to their callousness, no words to use against you or impress their next victim, no information to allow them to bore their way back in, no power over you emotionally, physically, financially, or legally. Remember the high road and you will avoid crossing their path.
Thanks to reading this blog and articles on this site I have an understanding of the process (kim–you are so right about the nice guy act following vial tantrum and inflicting trauma). I am also able to identify features of this personality, have empathy that turns to pity for those victims of these liars & players. Take for instance (if you can bear it) the relationshit between Sammi (enabler) and Ronnie (P/S/N) from “Jersey Shore.” I can only hope that young people will get the right message: don’t allow yourself to be a victim like Sammi and if you are a Ronnie, God help you.
Dr. Leedom’s heading, “It doesn’t work for me anymore” is so empowering. I have taken this approach moving two steps forward, one step back. I’ll have to take this as a new mantra to continue my process. Thanks for the support out there and for the REAL people that do preserve my faith in humanity, with caution this time.