“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
On a happy note, I love GLEE!
Jim put up a profile on the dating site. His profile is a pack of lies. He listed his interests in his profile. He did these things ONCE with me, once in the five years I’ve known him.
Jim sent me a nasty email through this dating site.
I responded to the email. I wrote:
Do I know you? You look familiar but the description of things you like to do ……. can’t be him; never mind
My 15 year old son worded this post to Jim, he wanted to write it, and I just sent it.
I blocked Jim afterwords.
My son does NOT like Jim. Jim used to scream in my son’s face when my son was little. I looked at my son’s post to Jim as therapy.
I noticed that Jim didn’t put up a fight. He didn’t try to fight it out in Yahoo email. He just seemed to give up. Is he gearing up or giving up?
Katydid and chinagirl. “That’s why his best targets are smart, successful women. He LOVES the game of reducing them to paranoid, doubting, confused, and damaged.’
that was so true of the n/psycho who I was involved in too. That was his defining “MO”(method of operation or whatever that stands for)
Ever watch the version of Thomas Crown Affair with Rene Russo? Thomas Crown is that kind of psychopath….appears successful, fools most (including everyone watching the movie). But note how what he does is just for the thrill of pulling one over on everyone. How he drives her to think the worst, reduces her to tears on the jet, but still takes his time to reveal himself to put her out of her misery. The crying comes across as just a special little test for her to prove herself right? I don’t think that many movie watchers end up hating Thomas Crown and thinking what a psychopathic jerk. But it is all there….the manipulation, the false self to the world, the thrill seeking even with the plane, etc. UGH< UGH UGH And also, even though she betrayed him to the police, he knows she will regret it and she does, which is even greater proof of his control over her and part of the n/p personality to always come out winning no matter what the heck you do!
This article is spot on! as are Rosa’s comments of listening to their “logic” and how they spin every conversation to paint themselves as a victim or any suggestion becomes a power struggle!
-Cognitive Dissodance comes to mind: By defenition, Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. This happens when what we hear and what we understand from those words are one thing, but then what we experience from the actions are so different, we become anxcious with our own internal inability to comprehend. This leads into depression, confusion, insomnia.
examplel…..I encountered an adult black bear recently while walking my dog in a neighborhood trail. I was on the phone with the S at the time…..When I stopped dead in my trak and pannicked, he tells me “I better let you go because you have allot on your hands right now” and perceives to hang up on me while I was facing the potential danger of a bear attack. Only days before the S tells me he “loves me”, will “allways be there for me when I need him”…yada, yada, yada….
Insomnia-and nightmares- Bear attaks and the S laughing it off.
Anxiety, insomnia and nightmares- so true, never suffered so badly and goes away after NC.
Jim’s email from 5-years ago Aug 21 2005. I met him Labor Day weekend of 2005.
Hi Jeannie,
I hope your doing good!
So far all we have had is casual chat and even though
there is some things about us on dating site, it does not
really tell much about us, and if you don’t mind I
would like to tell you more about me.
For the most part I am a down to earth person and still like the
simple things in life.
I like movies ( I have a large
d.v.d collection ) with a lot of comedies as i like to
smile and laugh.
I like to read newspapers at times
and also watch the discovery channel and A&E at times
also, but am still open to new things, ideas and
opinions.
I like to work with my hands fixing or
making things.
I look at children as a blessing and
never as a burden, and hope that i will be able to
teach them from my experience’s and maybe help them
from making the same mistakes as i have made, and to
help prepare them for life for when they are older.
I am a firm believer that success is based on happiness
and not wealth, and that behind every successful
person is a strong, loving, caring and supportive
spouse, not actually behind them, but rather at each
others side.
I enjoy walking hand and hand on a nice walk under
the stars and moon, talking about what ever pops into
our heads.
When i have someone in my life, i like to
treat them special and let them know that they are the
special person in my life. I have a big huge heart
that i will give to her and hope that she will give
hers to me and love me as much and as deep as i love
her.
Unfortunately I have been hurt in the past. My ex
only thought of herself and not much about the kids
and I, and if she did not get her way she would tell
me that i didn’t love her or get violent. even though
i would go out of my way to give her special romantic
moments that at times even brought tears of joy and
happiness to her eyes, the very next time i didn’t
give in to her, she would say that i did not love her.
Some people would call that emotional blackmail. It
took me a long time to realize that it was a one sided
love, that all i was, is a possession for her and not
a friend, confidant, husband or partner in life.
She
always thought about herself and not what was good for
the family as a whole, and never thought long term,
only day to day.
I still have hope that there is
someone special out there for me, someone who wants to
look at the bright side of things instead of dwell on
the negative things because life and people are not
perfect, and life is way to short to go through it not
being happy or sharing it with someone special, side
by side, hand in hand through good times as well in
rough times to work together as a team for the good of
the family.
I hope for someone that i can count on as
much as they can rely on me, and give me the same
unconditional love as i give to them. I guess you
could say that i am looking for someone who will
realize that I too have feelings and a big heart and
not just them.
Anyway, this is a little bit of who and what i am,
and hope it did not bore you
Jim
Jim really has an issue if he feels he is boring someone. He gets angry.
He is not reliable. I never knew if I could count on him. Never knew if he was coming or going.
He never considered my feelings. He would blow me off on weekends and tell me he didn’t get good sleep or that his back hurt.
He never walked side by side with me. He walked ahead. He would run ahead with the shopping cart so I was chasing him with my arms full of groceries.
Unconditional love. He treats me like shit and then acts like nothing happened.
He looks at the bright side. He complained bitterly about me. He would ditch me on weekends and then scream at me when I didn’t answer the phone Monday morning.
I spoke with his ex-wife years ago. She said “everything he did to me, he said I did to him”.
A possession…. Jim looked at me like property. He took my money and screamed at me when I complained. He barged in my front door to scream at me. He yelled at me because I didn’t have my drivers seat in MY car pulled back for him. He would take groceries out of my fridge and walk off with it. He acted like he owned everything I have.
He never took a walk with me under the stars. He can’t walk. His knees are busted up. We never talked about the first thing to come to mind. I had to listen to Jim’s LONG boring stories. One story ran into the next long story, and the next long story. If I tried to get a word in edgewise he would explode and scream “I rudely interrupted him”. I couldn’t even say ‘ok’ (like I hear what your saying) cause he would get mad that I was interrupting. So I kept quiet. Then he got mad cause he didn’t know if I was listening.
Romantic Moments? Jim showed up at my house and said let’s get out and do some things. I thought he had something special in mind. No. He drove us 1 1/2 hours to Menards. He wouldn’t tell me where we were going. He got mad when I pressed the issue. He told his LONG boring stories all the way there. I went into the store with him cause I had to go potty. I told him I would wait in the truck. He mumbled something as he walked away. I asked “what?” but he kept walking. I found out he locked the truck. I had to search this huge store to find him. I was so angry. He screamed at me in front of everyone. Yeah, I didn’t appreciate his romantic moment.
success is based on happiness
and not wealth, and that behind every successful
person is ‘church mouse Jeannie’s’ wallet.
Jim hates kids. He screamed in my son’s face. He screamed and called my son a ‘lying sack of shit’. Jim told me my son would go to prison. Jim would ‘glow’ when he told people my son’s future is going to prison.
Jim never treated me as special. He made it clear that I did not deserve anything.
I saw him work with his hands. But, he only does it to ‘work’ people. He gets a job started to get money. He makes excuses to leave. Then he comes back when the memory of the agreement is faded so he can get more money and still never finish the job. Jim charged me for the work he did for me. If he didn’t charge for work. He wouldn’t pay back money he owed me and his excuse was he did work for me.
He watches Discovery channel. He would control my tv remote. He has this thing for Jerry Springer. He especially loves the girls cat fighting. I couldn’t handle it cause violence freaks me out. Jim turned the volume up full blast. I couldn’t get away from the JERRY! JERRY! DING! DING! DING! as the girls ran to tear at each others hair and clothes. I went and sat in my woods. I could still hear the volume full blast. I was stressed out by the noise, and the violence. And, it was disturbing that Jim stared at the TV screen with his eyes wide, and mouth wide open smile and his glowing cheeks. My son was in the Psych Hospital at the time for a med wash. I was stressed about that. I was afraid they would label my son with a mental illness. (my son is fine, he has a good head on his shoulders, he was just hyperactive from hell when he was younger)
Likes the simple things in life: Jim looks for the better opportunity. He wants to watch the football game on the best tv. He never watched a game with me cause my tv isn’t the best quality. He would not come for dinner unless it is the best menu offer he got that day.
Aeylah,
Your guy is EVIL! He leaves you do deal with a BEAR alone! How did you manage?
I hope you made it ok? Please say a good riddance to that guy.
Jeannie
After reading this article by Dr. Leedom , I felt compelled to post my story as part of my healing and recovery. For the last couple of months I have been reading about sociopaths and found this site a couple of weeks ago. After really thinking I have been in a relationship with a spath for 9 years, I first emailed Donna. After getting her response and her encouragement to join the blog for my healing, I am taking that step today.
I am on day 4 of walking away from my spath and telling him I am done. I am still in a fog and mind reeling from beginning to understand what spaths are and what they do. I am still in an incredible amount of pain from all the lies and deceit. From what I’ve been reading, many people say that it takes time to get past it all and I wish I could fast forward to a year from now. I haven’t heard from him yet but I know the texts will start soon just like it did 2 weeks ago when I stopped talking to him and let him reel me back in. But this time I think I have truly found the strength to leave.
I met this very charming guy 9 years ago this August through a mutual friend. My friend had shared with me that he was going through a divorce and a really tough time. We started to spend more time together, alot of time, “getting” to know each other. It was like a whirl wind romance; he charmed, wined, and dined me. A few months later I found out I was pregnant. When we met I had my own home, two cars and a good job. Several months later I gave birth to our beautiful son. He moved in with me and we started living as a family. He has 3 children from a previous marriage and over the years the children have lived with us a couple of times, most recently starting 3 years ago when his other two sons came. This past July my oldest step son came out and told me his dad had a girlfriend. I was stunned and in shock. I knew he had to be telling the truth because why would he lie or tell me something that would hurt so badly if he didn’t know for sure. He also felt compelled to tell me because as I am finding out a lot of things about my spath, he did this same thing to the kids’ mother that he is now doing to me. When we met he told me horrible things about their mother, that she was lazy, not a good mother, on drugs, etc. What I have found out recently is that yes she is on drugs but she became hooked on them after years of turmoil at the hands of the spath. I can now see why she turned to drugs, to help ease the pain because for me also the pain has been almost unbearable. When I confronted my spath, he admitted it, said he was sorry and that he wanted to work things out and that he would not see her anymore. As hard as it was, I did believe him and really thought we could. The ironic thing is that when I confronted him I also met the other woman. She was the first person to say anything about him being a spath. That’s when I started reading about it. Now as it turns out he still has been seeing her to this day and she is the one that first said he was a spath. I am having a hard time understanding why she would want to still deal with him after making the discovery herself. I’m also beginning to wonder if she is a spath also because of what I’m finding out about her. He not only exposed my step son to this madness with this woman, my step son has come out and told me about several other women his father had been seeing just this year. Since my step son told me I’ve developed a close relationship with my spath’s ex in-laws because they live close to us and we had started blending our families because of our son together and also my spath’s daughter has been living with them. I have found out so much about him that it is so mind blowing. The biggest lie is he NEVER divorced. From what I was told he won’t give the kids mother a divorce. They lost 3 houses and 2 cars when they were together. We lost the house we were living in last July and had been living with my parents since then. We lost our car in March of this year after he had stopped giving me money to pay some of the bills we had. The story was work was slow (self employed in the concrete business). I had been in Nursing school the last 3 years up until this past December when I graduated. We really went through some rough times financially because I was working part time, trying to care for the kids. Now I’m finding out he was out spending his money on other women and other things. Wow-he has so many of spath traits that I keep thinking I never knew this person. It was all a LIE. He appears to target smart, successful women also! He had numerous affairs while he was with her. He has abandoned my step kids 2-3 times, most recently since the middle of Aug. He did not call to help their grandparents get them in school or anything. In fact one of the boys is still not in school, has missed the first 2 weeks of school because my spath has to enroll him. The grandparents are so done and upset by his recent antics and they are doing what they have to try to provide a stable environment. They have now reached out to Social Services to try to break this cycle of abandonment that he had put them through all these years. From what I have learned, these kids have been through h#!! with him. The kids are also getting hip to his lies and games. The two oldest are so done with him, they don’t even want to talk to him.
Looking back on it, I do remember catching him in little lies but not really paying attention to it. I had the feeling in my gut but didn’t pay attention to it like a lot people have said. The little lies turned out to be big lies, not paying bills, saying he was one place but was another. Lying about what he had and what he did. I reached my point when I asked him if he talked to the kids on 9/3 because it was his birthday. He told me he had and I knew he hadn’t. It just went through me, just lying for no reason. He lies about little things such as that which is so mind blowing. He doesn’t know I’ve been in touch with the kids and their grandparents the way I have and he has been telling so many lies. Reading this article today reaffirmed that I don’t need a check list from an expert to tell me that he is a spath, his lying has let me know.
I am taking it one day at a time but I haven’t gotten past the feeling I’ve wasted 9 years. I’m trying to take the good from all of it and leave the bad, my son being the good and the relationship I developed with my step kids. I have started therapy and with the support of my family and few close friends I know I will get through. I’ve been told so many times over the past few days to take it day by day, I’m trying to take it minute by minute. I haven’t really been eating and am having problems sleeping also. I worry about my son and the other kids and if they will turn out like him. I PRAY TO GOD they won’t. This website has been such an eye opener for me. The posts and comments I’ve read today have helped me make it through the day. Sorry to write so much but I was moved to share. I am truly thankful I found it!
My XP told me (the last weekend I saw him mind you) that when he was little, he ripped the heads off a nest full of baby pheasants that his brother was trying to care for. When he saw my shocked response, he was like “what?…I was only like 4 yrs old!” He actually thought that would be excusable behavior for a 4 yr old…nothing abnormal about it. AND, when caught on several dating sites and making plans with other women…his excuse was that he had been hurt so much in the past, that what if things didn’t work out with us, he just needed to know that someone else would be interested in him! He called it Plan “B”…….UNBELIEVABLE
Aeylah
Opps, I got so worked worked up that I didn’t notice it was an example.
But, I wanna point out that in similar situations it may have been a crime for him not to do the “good Samaritan”.