“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
The reason I’ve started to reach out to you, my friends, is to accept that my son is no better than a sociopath, like his father. While I am no longer young, I still have had time to litterly start my life over. Many sociopaths have bitten me, I have the wounds to show it. Healing takes time.
For the past three years my son has led me to believe he was working steady at the same job. I had a funny feeling this past week so I called at his work. Not only had he been fired over a year earlier but was accused, again, of stealing the nite deposits. I did confront him with the truth and he came across as the victim. Because he had two kids I had sent him money towards a car. Now, I learn he hasn’t changed one iota. He is a full -on sociopath and hasn’t changed despite the resposibility of an 8 and 12 year old.
Now it’s clear why the grocery stores don’t donate old produce to charity….our local grocers said it was too big a liability.
Hmmmmmmm, I guess so………..
Rosa, I love arugula……..and brownies……plane….no spice needed over here! 🙂
Put the tunes on and enjoy the ride……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbHLj7xt5Rw&feature=related
Kalina:
I’m glad you reached out to us at LF.
We understand! (Unfortunately).
You are not alone in this ‘story’…….and either are your g.kids.
I think this is what angers me the ost….is every child deserves to have 2 good parents. It is NOT always the case.
They don’t accept responsibiltiy……whether moral, legal OR human…..
They do as they choose.
They do what ‘works’ for them.
Kids WILL see truth one day! Continue to provide the support emotionally for your g. kids and model for them, there are good people in the world. Not everyone will abandon their needs.
We can only be there for the ‘fallout’.
DearKalina,
If you’ve read much here you know that I have a full-blown psychopath for a son as well, and there are others here who have P adult children. It is a painful thing to realize once and for ALL that the child you loved has grown into an adult that you can only fear, and especially if that P has more offspring to hurt.
Geminigirl, has 2 P daughters who keep her away from her grandkids that she really hasn’t gotten to know. Some she’s never even seen.
NewLily a former poster here and friend of mine died still wishing her daughters and son would just say they loved her.
Other posters here have young children that they hope against hope that the children will grow up with a conscience instead of being like their other parents.
I’m not sure which hurts the worst, realizing your X or Y or Z is a psychopath. I’ve had experiences with them as parent, child, lover, boss, friend, stalker, so I guess the one that is the most painful is the one you are just then realizing is a psychopath. But they are ALL painful.
Anyway, glad you are here, and glad you are healing! Recognizing that we are injured and what the injury is is the first step in healing the wound! (((Hugs))))
So many posts here remind me of my experience. Gemi–the FOG you speak of is exactly my experience. Thankfully, each day I feel as though the fog is lifting. I feel as though I am returning to myself with new knowledge.
As Oxy says, “they are all painful.” I still feel as though I am in shock and am experiencing a new level of understanding each day. I have been so hurt and feed up with the turmoil and twisting of my words and intentions and the constant blame, conflict and eggshell floor treatment (that we apparently had installed right around the time that I became pregnant–i was stuck he though, but was wrong!) that I have not been able to love him for so long, so I am not even heartbroken–I am relieved to be away from him. Chronic fighting without make-up sx how can there be healing? How can love survive? It didn’t. It never was???
The hard part for me to wrap my mind around now is was there ever a time when he was real? Did he know how this would end? Did he live for years with me just waiting to turn on me? It doesn’t make sense. What a terrible time he must have been having inside while we were supposedly so happy!
Someone above said they drop verbal cues early on…he told me he was evil. How about that? I didn’t believe him, tried to convince him it was not true. Now I don’t think any small thing he said was insignificant–those are the keys, not the big fanciful tales. When I started to learn this I listened to the mention of cutting brake lines, antifreeze deaths, getting guns for the home (I have always been adamantly opposed to guns in my home–abusive step father used to clean them and threaten with them; pointed at myself and siblings at early age). When I found a bottle of anti-freeze (there had been a story in the news recently here about a woman who killed two husbands and attempted to kill her daughter with antifreeze–he was interested in it I noticed–it was not typical for him to take interest in something that way, difficult to put my finger on it) in a strange spot in my house, I had such an awful feeling. It was new. Why was it there? He wouldn’t admit to buying it. I hadn’t. Why did I have a sinking, stunned feeling, goosebumps all over?? At the time, I was trying to see if there was anything left in our relationship. If he would, this time, keep to his word and be the person I thought he was: loyal, caring, of integrity and family oriented. When I realized that my truth about it was that I COULD NOT trust him. I feared for my life (rational or not). And that I could not take any chances with him anymore. I took my life into my own hands starting that day. Fearless today! TOWANDA!!!
Dear Fearless,
Good for you! Yes, the HINTS about the terrible things they could do….to you or others. YOU WERE RIGHT TO LISTEN!!!!
Good for you!
I’m not sure why they drop these hints unless it is a power play to make us afraid of them. Or what! My X P-BF dropped hints about wanting to burn his cousin’s house, but then later he kept giving different reasons why he wanted to and I ZINGED on those different reasons (not getting stories straight) but then his X-GF’s house burned, and on a day he was in her town, AND just the way he had explained he would burn his cousin’s house (he was an electrician) now isn’t that INTERESTING????? and when I told him about it, he replied “well good enough for her!”
I’m glad you got out when you did. I think your fear was rational.
I think a few times my P son has dropped the mask was to try to frighten me, but also in FRUSTRATION because his con job wasn’t working on me.
But you are right, they do (in hind sight) drop some clues but we see them but brush them aside and trivalize them at the TIME but looking BACK we see them.
Dear Fearles,
Isnt it GREAT when we start to come out of the FOG?Especially if we hadnt even known we were IN a FOG!! As Oxy always says, “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off! ” I think Gloria Steinem said it first!
The spaths LOVE to treat us like Mushrooms, ya know, keep us in the dark, and feed us bullshiat!
When we FINALLY GET that THEY are the bad guys, not us, what an empowering moment!
That our gut feelings were right, all along!
I sometimes have a bad day, and then I remember I used t o have BAD YEARS!!! LOL!!
It was also an AHA monment for me when I relaised that NO they dont love me, no,they never change, being incapable of remorse, compassion, empathy, ordinary kindness,{altho they can fake all of the above quite well.}
As a Mum, the biggest AHA moment for me was when I realised that NO it was NOT my fault they went down that path, they CHOSE to do evil, not good, and their screwed up lives are of their own making.And that I CANT change them. They will never ever change.And another thing, I used to long for closure from them, aint gonna happen, my only closure is NC for life.And this is bloody hard to do with your own kids.The oldest has NOT met my boundary, set by me last June, ie, ONE apology for all the crap, lies, con jobs, wreckage destruction and misery shes put me through.Not gonna happen in this life, and even if she did say sorry Mum, it would mean squat.Just a change to latch onto my neck again and suck me dry.Oxy has said,{and Ive cut this out and stuck it to my bedroom wall!} if someone does NOT meet our reasonable boundaries, then we may have to accept that the relationship is doomed, over,
has run its course. You want this person in your life, WHY?
To cheat, lie and con you some more?
Even if its you own adult child, you MUST for your very survival, kick them out of you life, and as the Lord Buddha said,
“WALK ON!!
Love, Mama Gem.XX
LOVE the mushroom line–gotta remember it! May you find peace on your path, Gemi–sounds like you are on your way & a strong Mum at that!
Dear Sweet Gem!
I am so glad to hear your rant (above!) because it rings so GENUINELY that you are indeed getting it emotionally! I am so glad for you that you are walking the walk as well as talking the talk! I know it is hard girlfriend! You know I know!@....... But you and I have both been BLESSED to have the Good Lord give us new and better children for those that we lost! Sometimes I feel and have felt like Job, but now the scabs are healed and I am restored and so are you! We are getting there Ms Gem. Give your david a lovely hug and a smooch for me and tell him what a special guy he is! He’s been there all the way for you!!!! Must prove what a lovely lass you are too for him to put up with the monsters your kids are! We’re blessed my dear!!! (((Hugs))))
Dearest Oxy, Thank you so much for these kind, sweet words! I feel I AM getting there, slowly! Im sure were cut from the same piece of cloth!{maybe scottish tartan?}
David says to give you a hug and a kiss back, and a thank you for your kind words.It aint easy but were gettin there!
Your right, I am so blessed, and so are you!I think without you and LF Id STILL be in that pea soup fog!!
Much Love, mama Gem.XXX